General chatter - Going around FB... empowering or cop-out? Are u proud to be "curvy"?




GlamourGirl827
12-03-2011, 06:54 PM
I don't know if any of you have seen this little poem going around on facebook, but it reads:

When you’re plus size woman, people like to say "yeah, she's cute in the face", as if being full figured is such a disgrace. Honey, I’m cute in the face, and I’m thick in the waist. I look good whether I’m in cotton, leather, or lace. I’m beautiful, vibrant and above all, smart! And there's more to me than my weight, I also have a heart. Yes my clothes maybe a bigger size, that just means you have access to a bigger prize. We all are not self-conscious about our weight, and we never have a problem getting a date. So don’t think your small frame gives you more pull, I’m a hot, sexy, curvy woman with a figure that's full.

The particular person that posted it on my FB (not my wall, but as their status) is morbidly obese, had WLS about a year ago, has lost about 20 lbs and admits she still finds ways to take in too many cals, and doesn't feel like sticking with whatever her doc has been telling her. She admits this on FB!...anyway...

I find this post not empowering, but more self convincing. While I am currently not over weight, I spent my entire childhood being over weight / obese (not to be confused with chunky, oh no I was bigger than chunky) , and most of my adult hood over weight, and after my kids, obese.

I was married later in life, but I can definitely say being fat did make it hard for me to get a date. I had no problem making tons of friends, many of which were guys, but I had very few that had a romantic interest, but maybe I'm blaming my weight...

I don't know why, but this status update really, really urks the crap outta me. I have sweated through the last year, not just literally with running at the butt crack of dawn on mornings when I'd rather be sleeping, but figuratively. ALL of us on this site, are working hard to lose weight or maintain our loss.
Counting calories, warding off binges, stay low carb, no carb, no sugar, high protien, WW, south beach, navigating the holiday cookie trays, food pushing family, working through our emotional ties to over eating or comfort eating, or not feeling deprived when we skip dessert, learning to cook healthier, eat healthier, and LIVE healthier. (Ok up on soap box now...) We eat, sleep, and breath our new found ways. We fall off the wagon, learn to forgive ourselves, climb back on and vow to KEEP climbing back on (ok, cue nation anthem in back ground) we learn to change our habits, figure out what works and what doesn't, pave new roads to meet our goals. We earn every pound we lose, and learn from even pound we gain, so we can be wiser in our future attempts at losing weight. Not just to look good, not just to get more dates, but for our bodies to be healthier, our minds to be happier, and our lives to be longer!!!!

And when I read these post from people (you don't know the particular women that posted this status on my FB) who's lives are a reflection of why bother (way more to it then weight here, if you knew them personally) I hear in their status "I'm going to throw it in your face that I love being "curvy" because it sooo much easier to post a FB status then work on losing the weight"...well, I've busted my butt for this "small-frame" and know what, for all the hard work and dessert-less nights I've endured, it damn sure better give me more pull. (I know it gives me more pleasure in the fitting room!) I did not see this post as empowering for plus size women. I have read empowering statements, and watched this awesome video on youtube, (search fat rant to see it), THAT was empowering. I found this statement to be a cop-out.
Don't hate me if you disagree! Maybe its because I know the women personally that posted this, and that effected how I took this little poem.


sacha
12-03-2011, 07:00 PM
I'm conflicted. See, even when overweight, I was never "curvy". I was a 32B when my son was 3 days old, when most women are spilling out at DD+, I have never had curves and I never will. I'm sure many women don't realize this, but when people brag of being 'curvy' rather than smaller/slim/skinny whatever you want to call it, it sort of leaves us "non curvy" fat girls (well, former - I am a maintainer now) in the dust.

We aren't skinny... we aren't curvy... so we're just, fat? Square lumps? Nothing to brag about?

Dharma420
12-03-2011, 07:05 PM
Hi, I think your response is right on. I'd be proud to be curvy, but not proud to be unhealthy or obese. I think people write that as a way to talk themselves out of all the hard work it would take to get fit. If someone was truly happy being "curvy" they wouldn't have to announce it all over FB and try to find people to agree with their position. But, misery loves company. For me...I will keep moving and try to keep inspiring everyone I know to get healthy (no matter what size that turns out to be).
Just my 2 cents.

Dharma


JessLess
12-03-2011, 07:27 PM
I'm not anymore proud to be curvy than I am proud to have brown eyes. Both are genetic. I can be thin or heavier but I'm always going to be somewhat curvy.

I don't like any kind of body shaming, putting down people who are fat or thin.

HadEnough
12-03-2011, 07:36 PM
I think people (I have done this in the past) internally (and sometimes externally) rationalize their size. I used to tell people, "yeah, I am overweight, but I am happy so I don't worry about it". Truth is I was too lazy to worry about it and I was not happy at all. Still not happy but I am working on it. I think your take on it is correct.

Andejean
12-03-2011, 08:58 PM
I think PP is correct, you are either curvy or your not. When I lose weight, I keep my curves, but I'd rather be healthy than bigger, curves or no curves.

baker23
12-03-2011, 09:39 PM
"Curvey," and "Overweight/Obese," are two completely different terms, ones that your friend needs to learn to seperate. I am proud to be curvy. I have an hourglass shape. But again, your friend posting is obese. She may have curves but what shes stating as such, is fat. I don't like when women think their shape is better then anyones. Everyone has their own thing going and its insulting that she assumes people with a smaller frame think there better(I do not have a small frame for the record) This whole thing is an excuse for her own issues shes having with her body. Shes apparently not comfortable with what she has because people who are, don't feel the need to bring something like this up. IDK...

MusicalAstronaut
12-03-2011, 10:22 PM
I totally agree with you. Saying that you're proud to be curvy when you mean fat is just dumb. Are you really proud that you're fat? I don't think any of us here are...that's why we're working our butts off to be healthy.

kaplods
12-03-2011, 10:42 PM
The fact that some people do not want to lose weight, and even are proud of their obesity, doesn't irk me at all. I'm not even sure that some of them aren't right. Maybe to them being fat isn't worth the effort it takes to be less so.

It's a bit strange and maybe even self-deluded, but we're such an open-minded culture with almost everything else, why should we care so much about what people think about how much weight is too much, and what weight is ok to be proud of and which weight isn't?

And the poem doesn't say anything about wanting to be fat, and intending to stay fat - just that it doesn't have to be a barrier to all good things in life - including men.

To be honest, the poem pretty much describes how I feel about myself. I dated less than my thin, outgoing friends but a lot more than my thin, shy friends. I also had better luck dating great men, because I was pickier - and I wasn't self-conscious about my weight (well not much, anyway). My weight was just one small part of me. It wasn't something I was proud of, but it also (from the time I became smart enough to realize it) wasn't something I was ashamed of either.

And I have met thin women who thought they had more sexual "pull" just by virtue of their lower body weight - to the point that they would make fools of themselves falling all over my dates - obviously thinking that they could easily take my date away from me - because after all they were thin and I was fat. Luckily, I always dated classy men who never made me feel like these women were right.

The funniest example was when my husband and I first were married, and a woman in the Walmart was fawning all over my husband in my presence, casting looks my way to clearly show that she thought I was no competition. I wasn't threatened in the least, so I didn't think anything of going about my business and letting my husband take care of it (he's better at it, and funnier). As I was browsing the next aisle, I could hear their conversation, and as soon as I was out of her sight, she offerred my husband her phone number, and my husband played dumb and said, "you'd better give it to my wife, I would never keep track of it," or something to that effect. I almost snorted, when I heard her harumph and stomp off.

It does get tiresome as a larger woman to be looked at by some thin women as if I have no right to the man standing next to me (and that he's a pretty big guy himself doesn't seem to change the "game" they play of "can I steal your husband?") They seem to believe that just by the virtue of their thinness, they deserve my husband (or when I was dating, my date) more than I do.

Unless you've experienced it, you may not understand what that feels like - to have some stranger try to attract your date/significant other, right under your nose, assuming they can do it, just because they're thinner.

I don't have to be ashamed of my weight, to want to change it. And I don't have to believe that I'm not attractive, exactly as I am. I can be proud of all my attributes (and even the curviness and even the ampleness).

I do personally think that women with a little "extra" are more attractive, but that's a personal bias, and I don't know what that will ultimately mean for my goal weight, or why it should matter to anyone but me. Will I stop losing at 170 or 180 because I don't want to lose my curves? It depends. Maybe. If my joints aren't bothering me, and my health stats are all great, maybe I will (although I'll still be overweight or even obese). And I'll still be annoyed by thin, young things who find it fun to try to seduce my husband out from under me, just because they think they can (although I do find it highly amusing watching him turn them down).

lissvarna
12-03-2011, 11:08 PM
I agree with you. I mean, I'm naturally curvy whether I'm 130, 150, or 170+. Curvy isn't the same as overweight/obese. And I don't think being seriously overweight is anything to be proud of. At the same time, I think it's a part of American culture-- the food, the advertising, the contradicting standards. So I don't "blame" anyone for being overweight either. But I cringe when I see these sort of things on FB; it's not something to be super proud of in my mind.

JessLess
12-03-2011, 11:14 PM
Kaplods, that was an awesome post.

princessgina00
12-04-2011, 12:11 AM
kaplods, why are you always the voice of reason? I wish to be as wise as you someday.

kaplods
12-04-2011, 01:28 AM
kaplods, why are you always the voice of reason? I wish to be as wise as you someday.


I do think I'm pretty level-headed, but know that I'm not always this smart or wise in my own life, at least not all of the time. It's a lot harder to access wisdom at the drop of a hat.

Today hubby and I had a HUGE argument (throwing mean truths at each other) because we were both feeling crappy, and neither of us really wanted to go to the gym, so we were blaming each other for not being motivated to go (and so we did go each feeling we had to prove a point, but we were still a little mad at each other on the way there, through our workouts, and even a bit during the drive home).

We both got over it though.

Online, it's much easier to see "both sides" because one of those sides isn't necessarily mine.


But back on the topic of "Big Girl Pride," I think it's sometimes overcompensation for being treated as though you were something that decent people would scrape off their boots.

I think it's also often just a "stage," some "big girls" go through (and like any stage theory, some get fixated at a stage and never move past it). I know I went through it for a few years, after I first discovered FA (fat acceptance) literature. I never succeeded at dieting in the past, and I wasn't entirely sure why, and I wasn't convinced (though I did sometimes believe) that it was because I was as lazy, crazy, or stupid as our culture tends to label the fat girls.

When I encountered the FA stuff that said I had a right to a decent life, including exercise at any weight, it was heady stuff. To think that I had as much value as anyone else? That I could be beautiful, active, and sexy and that the weight didn't have to prevent me from most of the things I thought it did... Wow!

And it didn't make me love being fat. It just made me realize that I couldn't put my life on hold until I stopped being fat, because even if I did everything right (and I hadn't done that yet, in so many, many years of dieting) but if I did manage to do everything right, I still was going to be fat for some time. Why put my life on hold even for a year, if I didn't have to.

And really I think without this view of the world, I don't think I would be here 101 lbs lighter than I started. Because most of my life, I gave up everything to lose weight, and then when the weight loss slowed, I'd get so angry that I had given up everything, had no life, and now had no weight loss either... it didn't take long to decide that I wanted my life back more than I wanted to be thin. I had to learn how to lose weight, without giving up everything good in my life as well.

I also was taught to lose weight by the self-denial and self-loathing method, and I never could hate myself quite as much as it felt like I was supposed to.

The object of the "game" of self-loathing is to lose weight by punishing yourself for being fat in the first place, by depriving yourself of everything fun - reminding yourself constantly that you don't deserve to have a good time, because you're fat, and you did this to yourself, and yada yada yada... It never worked for me, because I didn't buy into the premise - that I was a lazy, crazy, stupid, or a weak, inferior, bad person. I wasn't any of those things I was just fat (and yet still fabulously smart, witty, sweet, and way sexy).

I kept trying to lose the weight, but refused to throw my self-esteem away in the pursuit of it.

In order to meet my husband, I placed a personal ad - and I made it really clear that I wanted someone who could support me in my weight loss, but who could also accept my failures along with my successes. I still don't know if I will make it all the way to my goal weights (I actually have several goal weights. My in-my-dreams weight is between 135 and 150, but if I can make it under 200 and don't get any further, I'll still be very happy).

Heck, some days I don't know if I will make it to 285 or even 391. But that's another thing that's changed. Because I'm not afraid of being a fat girl, if I think that I can't lose another pound, it no longer leads me to think "if I can't get thin, what's the point. If I can't lose any more weight, so far from goal, I might as well quit and at least get to eat what I want."

Instead, every pound matters. So that even when I think I can't lose even one more pound, that's ok - I can still maintain the weight loss I do have. And maintenance really is the same work as weight loss, so always say (even to myself when I start to forget) that maintenance is my first goal and my second goal is to try to lose "just one more."

I don't fear regaining anymore, because I'm not even tempted to give up, because this isn't about numbers for me anymore. It's not even about weight loss. I decided that I was going to stop focusing on the numbers (which always set me to feeling sick and tired of the weight loss being so slow). Instead, I decided that I was going to commit only changes I was willing to make forever, whether or not any weight loss resulted. That way, the weight loss isn't my goal - it's one of the rewards for meeting my goals (the behaviors I'm changing). Weight loss works a lot better as a reward than a goal for me. So I keep focusing on my diet and exercise changes, and the weight loss is just gravy.

To be honest, if I had lost absolutely no weight, but had gained all the health improvements I've experienced, I still wouldn't be discouraged. Because a number on the scale means absolutely nothing to me (and maybe that's been my problem all along. Food was real, numbers were abstract).

Being able to sleep more than 45 minutes without having to "flip" like a pancake because of the pain and numbness, being able to not just wash my hair once with a shampoo/conditioner, but having the strength to rinse, repeat with seperate shampoo and conditioner... being able to wash the dinner dishes without sitting at a chair to do so... to finally being able to go to the gym and swim 36 lengths of the pool (sure it takes me bleepin' forever, but I can do it)....


All of those are miracles mean a whole lot more than the number on the scale. And I think it's really important that we take the stigma and the power from the numbers. If you're eating healthy food, avoiding most unhealthy behaviors, being really active and can run a marathon, and all your blood tests are awesome, and you still can't seem to get below 210 lbs, whose to say that your life is less healthy and less valuable than the 110 lb, alcoholic, promiscuous, chain-smoking, couch jockey?

Sadly, our culture does tend to give the lower weight person more benefit-of-the doubt, and that's sad - but not only for the fat person, but for the thin person too. In some ways, we fatties have an advantage. Our friends, family, and doctors (or at least the media we see on tv, if we don't have anyone in our lives doing it) are warning us about the dangers of being overweight. The "normal" looking person may assume he or she is healthy, just because they look normal in a mirror.

I think instead of harping on weight, we need to be a culture that tells people that diet and exercise is important independent of weight. That even if you can't seem to lose weight and even if you have no weight problem at all, a healthy lifestyle is still of paramount importance.

In fact, I think if we ignored weight completely, and focused on healthy behaviors (exercise and an active lifestyle in general, stress management, quality sleep, high-quality, unprocessed foods), most of the weight issues would take care of themselves (because the more healthy habits you have, the less likely you are to be overweight at all, the less likely you are to be more than a smidge overweight, and the more likely you are to be healthy even if you are carrying around a few extra pounds.

Instead, we've made it all about the numbers, and then wonder why people aren't motivated by them. Numbers don't "mean" anything, and deep, down most of us realize that.


Even here, it's very difficult to make it about anything other than the numbers. We don't have tickers that proudly proclaim how much fruit and veggies we're eating, or bragging about how much time we spent resting, dealing with stressors, getting enough sleeping or moving during the day.


We're focusing on the least important aspect of both health and beauty.

Yeah soapbox time... sorry.

Unna
12-04-2011, 02:42 AM
Hi, I think your response is right on. I'd be proud to be curvy, but not proud to be unhealthy or obese. I think people write that as a way to talk themselves out of all the hard work it would take to get fit. If someone was truly happy being "curvy" they wouldn't have to announce it all over FB and try to find people to agree with their position. But, misery loves company. For me...I will keep moving and try to keep inspiring everyone I know to get healthy (no matter what size that turns out to be).
Just my 2 cents.

Dharma

This is the perspective that worries me: that unhealthy, obese people simply show a false sense of confidence because they are too lazy to do the hard work. And, that they are trying to pull others down with them, "misery loves company."

This is a dangerous attitude because it becomes tyrannical in an unpsoken way. It spreads quickly to all sorts of minds and so becomes a social tyranny of sorts (pretty soon it could become a law that no one is allowed to be morbidly obese; if they are they will be jailed until they become thin). Also funny and ironic, it is even enforced by people who were formerly obese. It is quite a powerful idea that spreads fast.

I'd have to say:

1. Just because it is the focus/the most important thing of many lives to become healthy and attain a normal weight does not mean it has to be the focus of every life. We all have unique worries and our own issues that hold utmost importance in our lives.

2. This girl is simply trying to find her narcissism again (we are all narcissistic at heart- we want to be loved and admired) in a world that has trampled her feeling of self-worth. And so what if she wants to form a group of people that share her situation? It is nice to know we are not alone.

3. She has had WLS, but perhaps she has never really learned how to lose weight - perhaps she thinks it is hopeless, so she has decided to focus on more productive activities. Just because you understand how to lose weight does not mean she does. It also sounds like she is serious psychological issues with regard to eating.

To be honest, I think the OP feels that, because she knew the woman, the catchy little poem was directed at her to some extent, thus denigrating her own hard work efforts.

Well, OP, it sounds like you are doing great and learning how to become healthy and reach your goals. We appreciate all your hard work here (we are all going through it too and know how hard it is to lose), but your hard work is not going to be appreciated everywhere. Some people will tell you to stop, others will say being bigger is better and that you are wasting your time. I think you will just have to practice 'selective hearing' for awhile. Let it go in one ear and out the other, as they say!

One thing, just don't forget to empathize with others. Sometimes we become defensive too soon and we forget that others are suffering in their own way too.

Rosinante
12-04-2011, 03:21 AM
If I were a little above the "right" weight and curvy, I'd be proud too. I think "curvy" beats "stick thin" any day.
However, like Sacha and others, I'm not curvy. I can be a fat apple or a thinner apple; I'm never curvy. Boohoo, I wish I were but there it is.

I don't think people should be made to feel ashamed or guilty or "less" for being fat, so I'm all for fat people re-learning/hanging onto a positive self-image, and yes, I do know that "obese" is such a broad term that it takes into account perfectly healthy people as well as people up my end of the spectrum but, in general terms, "proud" to be obese? Nope.

gagalu
12-04-2011, 03:34 AM
I'm not anymore proud to be curvy than I am proud to have brown eyes. Both are genetic. I can be thin or heavier but I'm always going to be somewhat curvy.

I don't like any kind of body shaming, putting down people who are fat or thin.


this :)

indiblue
12-04-2011, 05:35 AM
I don't think feeling confident/sexy and wanting to lose weight/gain health are mutually exclusive.

Even if she's trying to lose, or not trying to lose, everyone deserves to feel beautiful.

kirsteng
12-04-2011, 06:48 AM
While I personally don't subscribe to that viewpoint, I don't begrudge anyone who does.

I personally feel uncomfortable and fat and too big for the world when my weight reaches about 60 pounds over a normal bmi and above. I don't feel sexy at that weight.. however when my weight is still higher (maybe just hitting the obese line) I DO feel sexy. I don't have to be a normal bmi to feel sexy... so maybe this lady can also feel sexy when even heavier. Each to their own, I guess! ;)

MathGeek
12-04-2011, 07:37 AM
I also know a girl who claims that she is proud to be curvy and has no problem being overweight. The thing is, she isn't proud at all, she is very unhappy and desperatly want's to lose weight. She has simply failed to do so. But I think conctantly being told that she is not good enough pushes her to take the stand that she doesn't care, even though she actually does. When she posts "I'm proud to be curvy"-stuff on facebook it bugs me, not because she isn't allowed the have that opinion but because I now she isn't proud at all.

I'm sure there are people who are perfectly happy being overweight and that is great :) I think the problem is that overweight people have been under attack for so long, that some have gone in the totally opposite direction, feeling the need to scream out loud how proud they are of them selves. It's great to be proud of youself, but if you deep down are actually unhappy then it's not productive at all to pretend.

Ideally we should all just stop judgeing each other based on weight. My mom always says that if we really wanted it, we could all be so much happier if we were nice to each other and helped each other out. She is not talking about weight but life in general. But I think she has a point. If we just helped each other out instead of calling names or being overly defensive then we could maybe move to a place where we focused on being healthy and happy, no matter what number the scale shows us in the morning :)

SunnyJee
12-04-2011, 07:46 AM
For me reading this, it's not about a person feeling good about their size, it's about the way they felt the need to announce it.

Because I don't believe in special treatment for "larger" folk (we should all be treated as equals-the good and the bad), I guess the reason why the Facebook statement irks me is that I wonder how it would look if I posted the following:

"When you are a slim, petite woman, people like to say 'yeah, she looks great because she lost weight', but it follows with 'honey, just eat the stupid piece of cake'. I wake up most days when other people rest, because I have to work to be thin and achieve my best. Whether big or small, we all work to be accepted, but 'you're becoming obsessed' makes me feel quite disrespected. Dieting and exercise is what I need to do, and my personal journey has really nothing to do with you. Don't feel that because I'm no longer fat, that my skin has grown too thick. Because it hurts a lot when you dismiss my goals, or haphazardly call me 'sick'. So don't think your large frame gives you excuse to be rude. I deal with bigger demons that usually involve food."


Well...you guys get the idea. This little ditty is usually how I feel on a day to day basis. Because I wish I could say that everyone has been supportive of my weight loss...but that ain't the truth. Not one bit. And I let the snarky comments slide most of the time, because, well like I said in my little poem...I'm dealing with bigger demons.

Sorry, now I'm rambling and got side-tracked. I am always amazed and in awe of anyone who is happy with themselves. ANYONE, whether big or small. But when I see that facebook post, I just wonder how it would look if a thin woman posted a poem about how happy and proud they are of being thin. If they were waxing poetic about how lucky someone would be to have access to their "smaller size". Or how they look good in everything, whether it's "cotton or lace". Or how "I'm cute in the face, AND I've got a tiny waist!".

Just my two lil cents :)

twinieten
12-04-2011, 08:00 AM
Wow! Great thread! GlamourGirl... right on!

Empowering or copout? I guess it can't be all or nothing. It can be both. For me, it's a total cop-out.

When I was at my heaviest (the first time), I adopted this attitude. Real women have curves. Yeppers. I was not happy with my weight and not happy with myself, but I decided that since I couldn't lose the weight, I would accept my weight and myself as-is. I was giving up. This is it. Can't do it. I have curves (translate: fat rolls). But I wasn't changing my ways. I was going to the gym, yes, but my entire thought process on weight loss was wrong, and I wasn't getting results. That all changed when I lost the weight and I was thin.

When I gained the weight a second time, I never reached this point again, of self acceptance. Sorry, real women may have curves, but they don't have to be fatty ones. It was about 3 years of torture as the pounds piled on and I felt worse and worse about myself. I had gone back to my tried and failed weight loss strategy (insanity??).

I agree with Kaplod and others about fat and thin, self confidence, self worth and not judging others based on weight. However, what GlamourGirl says is also true, especially in the context of her post. Not all of us are thin because we just are. We work hard to be where we are! We do it because we can't accept the concept of curves, not as a fat girl. I have curves that I wish I didn't, and I have curves that I'm glad I have, but I don't want to be fat.

I'm not even at my goal weight, not even close, but I think I look better, and I certainly feel better because of the fact that I'm working hard to exercise and eat right, day in and day out, and my body is reshaping. I eat, think and breathe weight loss. Obsession? Maybe. It is always on my mind, but perhaps that is what I need, always and forever, in order to be thin. I'm not even looking at it from a health perspective. I don't want to live to be 100. It's purely vanity for me.

Maybe that's my problem. I always felt inferior to the thin. The fatter I got, the worse I felt around thin people, and really, it was because I just felt worse about myself. At the same time, I don't look down upon those who are heavy. I don't know why I felt judged when I don't judge.

Sometimes I wonder if we have made our standards too high. Why do we have to be so thin? Why is a certain BMI the magic number? Do we see through laboratory testing that our numbers are more likely to be in a normal range at this tiny weight? I don't know. Years ago, I understand that larger was more acceptable. I wonder if our obesity problem isn't really linked to actual obesity as it is to the changing of our standards. Maybe someone considered normal is now "obese" based on changed ranges. I don't now what standards used to be where weight is concerned, so I'm basically just rambling. I just wonder.

Well, thanks GlamourGirl for introducing this great topic.

twinieten
12-04-2011, 08:07 AM
"When you are a slim, petite woman, people like to say 'yeah, she looks great because she lost weight', but it follows with 'honey, just eat the stupid piece of cake'. I wake up most days when other people rest, because I have to work to be thin and achieve my best. Whether big or small, we all work to be accepted, but 'you're becoming obsessed' makes me feel quite disrespected. Dieting and exercise is what I need to do, and my personal journey has really nothing to do with you. Don't feel that because I'm no longer fat, that my skin has grown too thick. Because it hurts a lot when you dismiss my goals, or haphazardly call me 'sick'. So don't think your large frame gives you excuse to be rude. I deal with bigger demons that usually involve food."

Nice!

Daimere
12-04-2011, 08:26 AM
(I haven't read the responses)

I don't actually repost it when I saw it. Although I like preaching comfort in your own body and never letting anything holding you back. The only way I lost 80 pounds the first time was accepting my body as his with all it's flaws. After that I was able to move more and treat my body with respect.

The reason why I gave up? Someone told me my saggy stomach was disgusting. Although this person denies this comment, I remember it like it was yesterday. My heart was broke. With one sentence that was meant as a backward compliment, I resolved to start hating myself again. Now I'm at 270 again. Through the hoop, I've resolved to love myself again because I am beautiful!

Now, I also preach fat girl love with the hoop because I don't want anyone saying, "well, I can't hula hoop cause I'm fat." No, you don't have the muscle memory yet. Get a big hoop and try again!

Beach Patrol
12-04-2011, 08:35 AM
There is a huge difference (pun!) between curvy, chunky, & obese. For those who are actually obese and don't care that they're obese, they obviously don't care about their health. I find that sad.

While I know I've been overweight and even tho I've lost almost 40 lb and STILL overweight, I also know that I AM CURVY. Always have been. Even when I was in the 120 range, still - very curvy. I celebrate my curves. Appreciate them. I am a woman, I feel like a woman, and I would NEVER want to be stick thin, or even be so taut & toned that my curves disappeared into muscle. Nope - that's not for me!

I am happy with a curvy, toned body. And I'm getting there... step by step, day by day. I am woman, hear me roar! ;)

GlamourGirl827
12-04-2011, 08:40 AM
A lot of awesome replies. Do agree that one should not be proud to be obese, and that curvy and obese are two different things. I am curvy. I'll never have that straighter figure. But I am small framed. No matter how much fat I've carried around, I've always had a small frame. I could easily carry a 120 lbs and not be too thin. My whole mother's side of the family are very small framed, but curvy people people.

I can see this as one person's way of dealing with a life time of hurt. I know some people deal with their issues better in a public forum, with lots of attention. I don't understand it, since even on this site (the only place I've even come completely clean) I keep my anonymity. I also know she's not a particularly kind person. I friended her because she was a previous classmate, then through coincidence, was a coworker nearly 10 years later. She's never been personally mean to me, so I guess it was more of an obligatory FB friending.
Her posts are often passive-aggressive, and I saw this as a passive aggressive post against thinner women. The line about not having more pull with a small frame, I thought was rude.
First it assumes what someone is thinking based soley on their size! You know what? My thoghts haven't changed with my weight. I don't think its fair to assume women's motives or thoughts simply because she is thin. There are a lot of thin women in the world, and I highly doubt each one thinks she is better than every fat women...I wouldn't want anyone assuming what I was thinking based on my size, fat, thin, tall, short. It is not ok to stand up for one group (obese) by making assumptions about another (thin). Thin girls made fun of my all through school. That does not give me the right to put down every thin woman, OR assume every thin woman thinks and behaves just like that one group of girls.

I've also never cared for over compensating. In any facet. I'm actually a pretty low key person, and I don't understand people that need to shout from the top of the world "Look at me! I'm beautiful!!" People are so wrapped up in their own lives, that 99.999% of them weren't thinking you're not beautiful. They weren't thinking about you at all....BUT its like this girl just can't deal with that, so she has to scream on a public forum "Look I love my body"...Frankly, I doubt if anyone was thinking negetive things about her body (or any fat person) that morning when they signed on to FB. I think it urks me that she assumes we are concerning ourselves with it. Well, maybe we do here, but this is a weightloss web site.

And I don't think anyone should be proud to be obese. Personally, I'm not proud to be curvy...I didn't accomplish anything, why would I be proud? For me, I'm proud of my accomplishments. I am I proud that I lost weight, because it was very hard work. I would never have been proud to be over weight, it took no work at all. It WAS a struggle. A daily, emotionally and physically draining struggle. I'm not saying it was easy, but not something I'd be proud of. I'm also not proud to be a woman! I'm not un-proud, or ashamed, I'm just not proud. I didn't accomplish it.

I get this X-pride movement (fill in the X with what have you) where my FB friend filled it in with her size, comes from feeling put down for something, so you react by being proud of it...I just think when someone gets themself in a place where they, without being provoked, feel they have to remind others "hey look at me! I'm proud I'm curvy (obese) I'm proud! So don't you go thinking you're any better than me! I'm great and I want you to know, just incase you were thinking anything less of me!!...Well, it has the opposite effect. I think most people see through that ruse and actually see the person as less confident.

Kahokkuri
12-04-2011, 08:57 AM
"When you are a slim, petite woman, people like to say 'yeah, she looks great because she lost weight', but it follows with 'honey, just eat the stupid piece of cake'. I wake up most days when other people rest, because I have to work to be thin and achieve my best. Whether big or small, we all work to be accepted, but 'you're becoming obsessed' makes me feel quite disrespected. Dieting and exercise is what I need to do, and my personal journey has really nothing to do with you. Don't feel that because I'm no longer fat, that my skin has grown too thick. Because it hurts a lot when you dismiss my goals, or haphazardly call me 'sick'. So don't think your large frame gives you excuse to be rude. I deal with bigger demons that usually involve food."
I really like this, SunnyJee!

I read an interesting piece on Jezebel, Real Women Have...Bodies (http://jezebel.com/5860264/real-women-havebodies). Good read if you have a minute, but the message comes down to this: there isn't a definition for "real woman", whatever her body shape.

Personally, I'm so tired of seeing people shaming each other openly about weight. I think everyone should work towards feeling their best about themselves; their good feelings should never come at the expense of someone else's. I can feel good about my healthier body without feeling anything negative about thinner/bigger/curvier/flatter/shorter/taller people. Fat shaming is so prevalent, but I hate that the response from some "fat" people is simply to shame thin people!

I don't think that the FB post is necessarily shaming thin people, but I've been seeing a ton of shaming lately, especially on the PostSecret iPhone app of all places and it's driving me nuts!

sacha
12-04-2011, 09:15 AM
I am a woman, I feel like a woman, and I would NEVER want to be stick thin, or even be so taut & toned that my curves disappeared into muscle. Nope - that's not for me!

I am happy with a curvy, toned body. And I'm getting there... step by step, day by day. I am woman, hear me roar! ;)

But see this is my point- many women are naturally stick thin - or athletic looking. I have NO boobs, even when breastfeeding. And these comments devalue women like me (can we call ourselves women? I have a vagina... but no breasts or real hips to speak of). I was, naturally, around 90lbs throughout high school (makes you wonder how the heck I ended up on 3FC) and I remember crying in the locker room because all the other girls had breasts and I looked like a boy, or at least that's what they called me!

We can celebrate our own figures - slim, thick, "curvy", obese, whatever - without devaluing others :) If someone wants to be stick thin or obese and they are HAPPY then who are we to devalue that? (*note HAPPY - someone with an eating disorder is generally unhappy, but there are some "stick thin" girls who love their figure or embrace it).

Esofia
12-04-2011, 09:20 AM
I think that Facebook is a pretty awful place for discussing weight, to be honest. Memes in the form of bad poetry don't help, and status updates about weight loss progress tend to elicit strange responses and/or make the readers feel uncomfortable.

I also find the "real women have curves" attitude is highly disrespectful of women who don't have curvy figures. You can identify as intensely feminine despite having practically no breasts (and come to that, even if you've had your breasts or uterus removed for medical reasons, or if you're a transwoman), and you can identify as androgynous or genderqueer even if you have a classic hourglass figure with death-defying cleavage (and a friend of mine does). Women come in all shapes and sizes, and while it's great to celebrate that variety, it shouldn't be done in such a way that one particular shape is worshipped and the rest denigrated. Telling someone that they're not a "real woman" based on which type of body shape they happened to inherit (because whether or not you are bosomy seems to persist whatever your weight) is ridiculous. I also find it a bit daft when people declare that men always like certain shapes. Exchanging "men" for "people who are oriented towards women" (don't get me wrong, I know lots of gay men who think that breasts are beautiful, but we're talking about sexual attraction here), women of all shapes find people who are attracted to them - otherwise we'd have evolved to be all exactly the same shape by now! Speaking as a bisexual woman, I can certainly attest that I find a variety of looks attractive in women.

GlamourGirl827
12-04-2011, 09:39 AM
For me reading this, it's not about a person feeling good about their size, it's about the way they felt the need to announce it.

Because I don't believe in special treatment for "larger" folk (we should all be treated as equals-the good and the bad), I guess the reason why the Facebook statement irks me is that I wonder how it would look if I posted the following:

"When you are a slim, petite woman, people like to say 'yeah, she looks great because she lost weight', but it follows with 'honey, just eat the stupid piece of cake'. I wake up most days when other people rest, because I have to work to be thin and achieve my best. Whether big or small, we all work to be accepted, but 'you're becoming obsessed' makes me feel quite disrespected. Dieting and exercise is what I need to do, and my personal journey has really nothing to do with you. Don't feel that because I'm no longer fat, that my skin has grown too thick. Because it hurts a lot when you dismiss my goals, or haphazardly call me 'sick'. So don't think your large frame gives you excuse to be rude. I deal with bigger demons that usually involve food."


Well...you guys get the idea. This little ditty is usually how I feel on a day to day basis. Because I wish I could say that everyone has been supportive of my weight loss...but that ain't the truth. Not one bit. And I let the snarky comments slide most of the time, because, well like I said in my little poem...I'm dealing with bigger demons.

Sorry, now I'm rambling and got side-tracked. I am always amazed and in awe of anyone who is happy with themselves. ANYONE, whether big or small. But when I see that facebook post, I just wonder how it would look if a thin woman posted a poem about how happy and proud they are of being thin. If they were waxing poetic about how lucky someone would be to have access to their "smaller size". Or how they look good in everything, whether it's "cotton or lace". Or how "I'm cute in the face, AND I've got a tiny waist!".

Just my two lil cents :)

Great post! I imagine a post about how great it is to be thin would not be well received. Its a double standard, that some people are allowed to be "proud" others are not! (At least not openly)

And while I was typing my 2nd post, like 7 people posted! I didn't read any of them until now. I guess we all woke up Sunday morning and came here! ;)

kimicat76
12-04-2011, 01:55 PM
i personally see it as a cop out. i used to think that way. im curvy so what if im fat too..... my sister says it and so do a few of my friends who are morbidly obese. i think its a way to rationalize giving up and acceptance. but in a bad way. now, you can be overweight and healthy its been proven BUT when you are always complaining and i always see your status to 'im hungry ima get a burger' (3am btw) and you are 300 lbs theres a problem. i am not in any way whatsoever saying i am better but i do KNOW better. i wish i could help my sister lose weight. shes 6'1 and weighs about 250 lbs and is always telling me she wishes she could lose weight like i am. i try to tell her how to lose it but she lacks self discipline.

MariaMaria
12-04-2011, 02:10 PM
I'm uncomfortable telling anyone else how she should feel about her body and how she should feel about her weight.

And if you're okay with it, were you always okay when you were bigger and were at the receiving end of what played at well-meaning advice ("you'd be healthier!")

I can live with curvy being used as a body-positive euphemism for "fat and okay with it". And I say that as a 32FF--i.e., I am accurately described as curvy (if you like that kind of thing you'll think that I won that bit of the genetic lottery) and I am not fat.

Rapunzel
12-04-2011, 02:58 PM
LOL If maybe I was curvy, then maybe I'd be proud of it. But I'm not. I'll never be one of those gorgeous plus-sized models with the wonderful, tan, smooth skin and shapely figure. Nope.
I have always been what I call "lumpy." I'm not fooling myself here like some people do (I've seen it too). I don't buy the "bigger is better" concept that I've seen on some tv shows, like those dance clubs or bars specifically only for bigger women (anybody seen this?). If some women can convince themselves that they're happy that way, alright then. But I'll never convince myself of that and I'll never be able to hide behind a belief like that. I have too much harsh, cruel honesty with myself.
I don't even think if/WHEN I lose weight that I'll have the body type that would be "curvy" and beautiful. I'm an apple or, more likely, a pear. I'm not going to hold my breath for that envied hour-glass shape. I just want less lumps and rolls! :-P

dragonwoman64
12-04-2011, 03:16 PM
I'm uncomfortable telling anyone else how she should feel about her body and how she should feel about her weight.

yes, I feel that. and I feel that OP should be proud of the work she did to lose the weight, esp considering it's been a lifelong struggle.

and I agree that FB is a bad forum for that kind of pronouncement. I could see that as something someone would write in her private journal at one time before these kinds of forums existed, not because it's necessarily TRUE that she feels wonderful about being obese (in a world that pretty much sees it as a moral fault, and tends to label that feeling under "health"; plenty of healthy people eat atrociously or are unhealthy for other reasons that are less visible and attackable; and I'll add to that that I do believe it's healthier to not fall into the obese category with one's weight, but health is used when health is not always what the main motivating factor may be in commenting about someone's weight), but she wants to feel less, I don't know, wounded/guilty/demoralized maybe, about her current state of being.

I think it can be very difficult to always envision how others feel about their body image and weight loss. reading posts here at 3fc, obviously there's a tremendous amount we share, but wow, sometimes it's like we're coming from different planets. I agree, sometimes it's a matter of "screening your hearing."

Scarlett
12-04-2011, 04:51 PM
I think there is nothing wrong loving your body no matter what it looks like.

Reguardless, I find the FB post a bit obnoxious. It's the kind of thing where if you really feel that way you don't need to post it, you just live it. Essentially the post acknowledged that being "curvy" upsets her (or why else would she bother to post the message). IMO it's similar to flaky girls posting "I enjoy being fine" "I'm hot, get over it" "Prettier than the Models" or whatever else in their profile. The type of stuff where if it's true you don't need to say it.

ennay
12-04-2011, 10:06 PM
Sadly, our culture does tend to give the lower weight person more benefit-of-the doubt, and that's sad - but not only for the fat person, but for the thin person too. In some ways, we fatties have an advantage. Our friends, family, and doctors (or at least the media we see on tv, if we don't have anyone in our lives doing it) are warning us about the dangers of being overweight. The "normal" looking person may assume he or she is healthy, just because they look normal in a mirror.

So true. My friends husband said he had never had his cholesterol tested ever in his life and he was almost 50. Because he is 6'3 and skinny as a beanpole no doctor ever thought it was necessary. Because he can't put on weight for anything he has always been a human garbage disposal. Finally after some weird chest tightness his wife demanded a full workup. His cholesterol was over 400. His good cholesterol was virtually nonexistant.

On the other hand my close to 400 lb friend says he gets a cholesterol screening run if he goes in with pink-eye.

astrophe
12-04-2011, 10:40 PM
I'm fine with who I am as a person. But I'm obese, and I'm not fine with that. So I keep trying.

It's not the best poem I ever read.

I think the poem emotion is fine for most of it, and could be moving for those who are plus size and need a confidence boost. That YES, you are allowed to live and take up space and do all the things everyone else does -- wear clothes you enjoy, date who you want, etc.

But the last line I'm not crazy about. It goes on about empowering despite size and then the last line goes back to size-ism? What for? I don't see how body bashing BACK at others who are smaller helps anyone. It just perpetuates the back and forth GRRR stuff, doesn't it?

But if whoever it was posted it on your FB to needle you deliberately, that's something else besides lit crit on a poem. It's not even about the merit of the poem in construction or emotion or anything.

It's why is the person so threatened by your fitness project that they are going out of their way to bug you on your FB?

A.

shcirerf
12-04-2011, 10:50 PM
Ahh, Facebook.

It can be a double edged sword.

I have numerous friends and family on FB. I've learned to take some of it with a grain of salt and move on.

You get out of it what you want. I love getting the random droid loaded pics of my grand kids. Keeping up with family that lives far away. Playing Farmville. Then I have the nutty friends. :D Love them all, family, crazy cat lady, WW friends, animal rescue friends, and the nuts.

Gives me connections to folks I'd other wise never get to know.

luciddepths
12-04-2011, 10:59 PM
ive noticed this lately too!!! There is a BIG difference for curvy vs fat.

I get so tired of it... one lady on my FB she tries to shop at petite stores then writes letters/complaints to the store owners stating they dont have her size, when going in she knows they dont.

astrophe
12-04-2011, 11:05 PM
Petite is height of 5'3" or less. A person can be a petite plus size. So I guess the lady complaining about the petite lacking in plus sizes makes sense to me because she needs to be there height wise, but they don't go out to her range?

A.

luciddepths
12-04-2011, 11:11 PM
no she is my height...thats why its weird.

kaplods
12-05-2011, 12:34 AM
Petite isn't always about height. I had a friend who was very average in height, but she was proportioned sort of like a short person from the waist up and a tall person from the waist down, meaning she was short-waisted with shorter arms, but had long legs in proportion.

She used to joke, that she had to shop in all three departments, petities, average, and talls, depending on what she was buying.

I can relate, because I often buy tall pants, because I have a longish inseam, and it's easier to hem tall pants, than to be unhappy with pants that are "just a little too short."


And also complaining to a company because it's stores don't carry your size (or any size - even if it's not your size, but say for someone you want to buy for), isn't a terrible thing. It says "I'd love to be a customer, but you don't carry the sizes I want to buy. If you carried these sizes, I would have bought from your store," and if enough people write those letters, the company may actually decide that they can make money by selling the sizes that people are looking for.

runningfromfat
12-05-2011, 08:02 AM
After reading this (and the comments too) I feel there are a few issues going on here:

1. Curvy doesn't equal plus-sized. I just can't stand this idea. I'm curvy, but you know what? I'm curvier now that I've lost weight! (http://braslessinbrasil.blogspot.com/2011/10/body-shape-and-weight-loss.htm) l Making this sort of statement hurts women on both ends. It makes women (like sascha pointed out) who don't have curves and are overweight feel worse because they're missing out on the "good" parts of being overweight and it's telling women who are not plus-sized but do have curves that they are fat. I also agree that with Esofia that we need to get past this idea of what "men" are attracted to. I know guys AND girls who like thin, small-framed women, I know guys AND girls who like large, obese women and I know guys AND girls who like many different combinations of those two. No one body type is going to have EVERYONE attracted to them. Speaking on a personal level I know before meeting DH I've dated guys with various body types. I do have a type I prefer but have many, many friends who would disagree with my preference and be attracted to radically different guys.

2. Hiding inner pain by proclaiming self-confidence. I get that's what is bothering the OP and perhaps a few others here? What I take away from this is that the friend of the OP's is possibly doing this to convince herself that she does have self-worth, maybe eve because she has low self-confidence. In a way I can see how this might bother some but on the other hand, don't we all do this? Maybe not about body image but we get ourselves psyched up that we CAN do something (goodness knows sports teans do this ALL THE TIME!). It sounds like she might be giving herself a pep talk... what's so bad about that? Some people just decided to do these things very publicly and FB has given them that opportunity. It could be that she recognizes that she's not happy with her body the way it is and wants to change her happiness levels. If it helps her, is it really that bad?

3. The fat acceptance movement. Now, I'll admit I have mixed feelings here. I DO agree 100% that the focus on health+exercise should be our number 1 priority, not necessarily weight loss. I also don't think discrimination on any level is EVER acceptable. However, I do think that the movement goes too far at times because there are certain strands that really criticize others who want to lose weight (especially those who want to lose for vanity reasons). I think that train of thought really misses the point. If we can accept those who are larger, why can't we also accept those who are thinner too (assuming they are losing through healthy means)? Basically, I'll all about accepting our bodies but if someone is not happy with their body and wants to change it for whatever reason I feel that that's there choice and as long their not doing something harmful to themselves and others. I mean, we don't tell someone who wants a tattoo that that's wrong because we don't want a tattoo. So if another woman wants to be 15lbs lighter than me but is at a healthy weight for her body, what's the harm in that?

4. Are you allowed to live your life at a higher weight? Yes, yes, YES. Of course, you should try to do the things you still want to do at a higher weight. You shouldn't crawl up into a hole and hide. This I'm saying to myself because I DID THAT and I'm still ashamed of that. I can't turn back the clock and give the younger me a kick in the butt for not taking care of myself better at night highest weights but I can encourage others to do that. Women can date, they can dress up, they can make friends, they can study etc at higher weights. NO ONE should feel so ashamed about their weight that they stay in and hide. :(

5. The health aspect. Like I said in my comments about the fat acceptance movement, healthy eating and exercise should be a major focus no matter what your weight. I can't say without knowing the author of this poem what her feelings on that are. I DO think it's important to state, though, that even if someone isn't ready for healthy eating and exercise there's not really much you can do about it. No amount of shaming will change their mind. They also deserve a life just right the rest of us. We all have our vices and while overeating might be a much more public one than most because it's visible by all, that doesn't make it out to judge anyone on that. I also think it's an extremely difficult thing to achieve in our society because there is so much confusing misinformation out there. Also some diets work better for certain people than others. Some people just need the right event to happen in their life first before than can get on the right track. I think as a friend it's hard to see someone we care about not focus on a healthy diet and exercise but in the end it's something they have to decide.

6. I'm also OK with complaining about sizes at a company. A company probably wants feedback on who is interested in their clothes and what your size is (at least they should be if they want to be able to make money!). I have a very, very hard time finding bras because I have a small back (need a 30 band) and large breasts (about a GG at the moment). There are some companies, though, that have started vanity sizing the bands (http://busts4justice.com/2011/11/23/am-i-being-dumpe-by-freya/), which is a real concern for me because a 30 band is sometimes the smallest that brands carry and if they start making that fit like a 32 band than I'm sized out of their product. So it makes a lot of sense for me to be vocal about that! I think companies run into some major problems when they stop listening to their customer base (and that's something I've seen often here in Brazil where the population has gotten a lot larger but they haven't changed their sizing system so most women really have a hard time finding clothes that fit!!!!).

berryblondeboys
12-05-2011, 10:09 AM
I agree with a lot of what Kaplods and Runningfromfat have to say. And others too.

What the poem says to me is this - I'm ok... We can be different sizes and shapes, but I still have value.

As a society. Heck nearly worldwide we have been told the desirable shape is tall and thin with a small frame and at least a B cup breast. The models, the movie stars, the everything. Shows tall, thin, shapely women. They got famous mostly by how they look. Most of us don't look like that.

I am curvy. But I.m also built very large. I am 175 and at the most. Have 20 pounds I could lose and not get too thin. And I have problems accepting the fact that it's ok for me to weigh 165 at 5 feet 6.5 inches when every chart says that I would still be overweight. Every star and model is way thinner than that and so on. I want to be accepted as a large frame person. As does an apple shaped woman wants to be valued as an apple, or flat chested women want to be valued and so on. and that is hard when we are shown only the tall and skinny with small frames as the only desirable body type.

djs06
12-05-2011, 11:04 AM
I'm uncomfortable telling anyone else how she should feel about her body and how she should feel about her weight.



Agree wholeheartedly.

I see these things on facebook all the time (about everything: being a parent, awareness of some kind of health issue, etc). Most of them, in my opinion, are worthy of an eyeroll and not much thought. Some of the parenting ones I've seen imply (by deduction) negative things about childfree folks, but I don't take offense. It wasn't directed at you. If it were, I would certainly think much more negatively of it.

However, I don't condone body negativity of any size. My petite best friend and I joke about the "women's" department (she'll say "apparently I'm not a woman?") and "real women have curves" is ridiculous (as is the notion that fat=curvy and/or curvy=fat).

Let's face it: overweight people receive subtle and unsubtle messages that they don't have anything to be proud of, that they're "less than." I am a huge proponent of not letting weight stop you from living life or having pride in yourself. It would be more effective if it didn't indict smaller women as part of the problem, and I can't imagine that this silly facebook status proves that she is proud of her life/accomplishments/what have you, but if it gives her some kind of comfort or positivity, I say live and let live.

sacha
12-05-2011, 11:10 AM
I deleted FB a few months ago and couldn't be happier. Staying in touch with family is one thing, but I think it has led to people overindulging themselves. Sure, they could have done that before (ie. a blog) but really... it's just bad, lol.