Weight Loss Support - Anyone heard of a disease that stops your brain from hearing your stomach ?




Porthardygurl
12-01-2011, 07:56 PM
Okay, so i was wondering if anyone had heard about this particular disorder or disease that affects your stomach ,by which you eat but the stomach doesnt signal to the brain that its eaten or that its full?

Im wondering if this is what ive been struggling with..because i can literally eat 25 wings and dessert and down 3 coke's and i wont feel full..its like..for so many years.. i could eat and eat and eat.. at my 7th birthday party i ate 7 slices of pizza and never threw up and never felt full...its as if i had never eaten before..

Anyone else have this ? or something similar? were you prescribed a medication? did you find anything that helped?


Coondocks
12-01-2011, 08:03 PM
are you talking about Prader-Willis syndrome?

flourless
12-01-2011, 08:29 PM
If you're gluten intolerant, your body hasn't been properly absorbing nutrients, and won't until you adhere to a gluten free diet long enough to heal the damage. Your brain and body learn that you have to eat massive quantities of food to get basic vitamins and minerals absorbed. You can't do that if you are aware of the physical discomfort and distension, so your brain blocks it out.

STRICT adherance to a gluten free diet, time and consciousness are the only cures I know. I had to think about my body a lot. Years of evaluating how I felt and what I'd eaten. It sucks, and it isn't fair. And until you get there, you have to accept that you can't trust your body. That your cravings are wrong. I still wrestle with that, and "I can't stop eating that" or "That's the only thing that sounds good" are big red flags for me. I stop eating when experience tells me I SHOULD be full, even if I'm not. I might eat more later, but I give myself an hour for my brain to catch up.

There's no pill to undo the effects of gluten if you're gluten intolerant. Some you can fix with time and hard work, some you can't. Sorry.


4star
12-01-2011, 08:31 PM
are you talking about Prader-Willis syndrome?

If this is the condition you're speaking of, looks like they can do genetic testing.

http://www.pwsausa.org/faq.htm

JayEll
12-01-2011, 08:37 PM
I doubt that you have Prader-Willi syndrome, but your doctor can probably find out with some simple tests.

If someone chronically overeats, the stretch sensors in their stomach become suppressed. It's more likely that this is why you don't feel full. If you eat normal amounts and don't binge for a few months, the stretch sensors wake up again, and then you begin to feel full with less food. But check with your doctor--always the best way to find out.

Jay

ncuneo
12-01-2011, 08:43 PM
Do you stop for a moment to see if you're full? It takes the brain 20 mins to send signals to the stomach that it is full, you may not be giving it enough time. If I plow through a meal I can consume hundreds of cals in a sitting and not realize till 20-30 mins later that I've totally over done it.

Next time try stopping halfway through your meal, waiting 10 - 20 mins and see if you're truely still hungry.

Serving size is an issue too. If I have a plate of food I'll eat it all if I'm hungry or not, so if I give myself an appropriate portion I realize I'm satisfied with a lot less then I think I "need" or "want".

sacha
12-01-2011, 09:11 PM
OP wouldn't have Prader-Willi, one of the major traits is infertility (she has a baby) and there are a huge number of traits beyond overeating that one would notice long before adulthood (overeating simply being the most obvious/'sensationalist' trait that people notice).

OP, have you ever read The End of Overeating by Kessler? I'm about 1/2 way through it right now and you may find it very useful.

kaplods
12-01-2011, 09:31 PM
Talk to your doctor, but you're probably not dealing with an actual "disease."

Hunger and appetite are actually very complex phenomena. There are genetic and behavioral/experiential components. You may have inherited a "different" appetite/hunger control system than others. Or you may have learned or "trained" your body to get used to very large amounts of food. You may also be eating foods that don't "turn off" hunger, but instead only make it worse.


I've learned (in 40 years of dieting) that I can't trust my appetite or hunger. When I eat too many carby foods, I feel like I'm starving, even if I'm in agony from overeating, and my stomach feels like it's going to explode. On a very low-carb diet, I don't feel hungry at all - even if I don't eat all day. My first sign of hunger on super-low carb is irritability and even rage - but the first sign I recognize is feeling sick and about to throw-up or pass out.

I have to use a calorie/portion-control, because I can't trust "hunger."

I also would recommend David Kessler's book, The End of Overeating, because it really helpped me understand that I wasn't nearly the freak I thought I was. A lot of people (perhaps even most) have a different hunger response to some foods than others.

Coondocks
12-02-2011, 10:16 AM
OP wouldn't have Prader-Willi, one of the major traits is infertility (she has a baby) and there are a huge number of traits beyond overeating that one would notice long before adulthood (overeating simply being the most obvious/'sensationalist' trait that people notice).

OP, have you ever read The End of Overeating by Kessler? I'm about 1/2 way through it right now and you may find it very useful.

Infertility is a possible trait, not a definate. Highly likely yes, but not absolute

But I agree, I wasn't inplying OP had PWS, just asking if that's what she was talking about.

I think more people are conditioned from an early age not to know what proper portion sizes are and what amount the body actually needs. It's hard to eat a certain way all your life then try to change it - as I'm sure we all know :)

OP - if you have concerns at all there could be something wrong genetically, thyroid, glutten tolerance . . . anything, please go see your Dr and have it all checked out. At least you'll know right?

kelly1962
12-02-2011, 11:25 AM
Okay, so i was wondering if anyone had heard about this particular disorder or disease that affects your stomach ,by which you eat but the stomach doesnt signal to the brain that its eaten or that its full?

Im wondering if this is what ive been struggling with..because i can literally eat 25 wings and dessert and down 3 coke's and i wont feel full..its like..for so many years.. i could eat and eat and eat.. at my 7th birthday party i ate 7 slices of pizza and never threw up and never felt full...its as if i had never eaten before..

Anyone else have this ? or something similar? were you prescribed a medication? did you find anything that helped?

I am not a doctor, but i think you suffer from what we have all suffered from. You are using food as a source of comfort, a crutch, to make yourself feel better for a short time. You should never eat until you are full. What you are doing as i have done is live an unhealthy lifestyle. We all have to take responsibility for gaining the weight we put on. It is no one else's fault and there is no pill that will cure it. It is a mindset and it takes committment and work. I know for many many years, i hated myself for what i have done to my body and how i looked in the mirror. I think it affects everything in your life, because until you feel good about yourself, for me i couldnt feel good about alot of other aspects of my life. I feel like you are crying out for help and looking for an answer to your weight problem. The answer lies in you my dear. You can do it. Take one day at a time and know that you deserve to feel good about yourself and you want to be healthy. Believe me, i am 49 years old and have tried to give myself all the excuses in the book, i thought i must have hypothyroidism, our my metabolism is very slow or stress is doing this to me. NO, i did it to myself.
If you cant do the Ideal Protein diet because of your not liking vegetables, perhaps you should consult a nutritionist or try one of the other packaged diets, like Jenny Craig. Start trying to give time to yourself to start a light exercise program. If you commit to losing weight you WILL AND CAN DO IT.
There are hundreds on this blog that have weighed more than you and are doing an amazing job. We are all here to support you.

kaplods
12-02-2011, 02:30 PM
Hunger and "fullness" also are very subjective definitions. I didn't realize it until very recently, that the feeling I associated with "fullness" was actually stuffed-to-the-gills discomfort.

I "retrained" my perception of hunger by giving up meals entirely. I reduced my meals to the size of snacks and doubled them. SO instead of eating 3 large meals, I ate 6 to 8 small snacks. As a result, I never got very hungry, and I also never got full. I wasn't planning on eating this way forever, just until I "shrunk my stomach" (after reading a Reader's Digest or Prevention magazine article on doing so).

At first I missed being full. I felt like I was hungry all the time, because I was used to that sense of fullness.

What I didn't miss was eating to the point of feeling sick or sleep, and actually having to lie down often after a meal.

kirsteng
12-02-2011, 09:04 PM
I agree with the other posts- I doubt it's a medical problem. It's much more likely a habit. You've been in the habit your whole life of eating vast quantities of food, it's your normal - both physiologically and psychologically. Your stomach is conditioned (stretched out?) to accomodate the quantities you're used to, and you likely eat that quantity mindlessly.

I also had some bad habits, that I"m on my way to changing. Portion size is one of them. While I never ate in the huge quanitity you describe, I filled my plate with a darned good portion of x and y.. and maybe went back for a smidge more of z. I no longer take seconds, and my original portions are about half what I used to take. And you know what? After just a week or two, I feel horrendously stuffed if I eat one of those old portions... my stomach has shrunk to a proper size already.

I also had the habit of night time snacking. Its been a couple of months since I started my journey, and I no longer have any desire to eat in teh evening. At first it was hard.. but after a couple of weeks, no effort at all.

You just have to look at your current habits as just that - habits. Something you currently do, but certainly subject to reevaluation and change. You'll be surprised how quickly you can teach an old dog a new trick! ;) GL!

Justwant2Bhealthy
12-02-2011, 09:32 PM
Your stomach is conditioned (stretched out?) to accomodate the quantities you're used to, and you likely eat that quantity mindlessly.


I read somewhere (over the last year) in a book (I think) written by 2 doctors that our stomach is actually only the size of a large fist (like a man's); but that we have been encouraged to each huge portions in our society, that stretch it way over-size.


OP ~ this over-eating has been going on for a long time (since early childhood), so you will have retrain yourself to eat "normal" portions again. The advice given by KAPLODS & others will help. My DH and I use a dinner soup bowl or sandwich plates (7-8") for dinner plates now, and feel quite full with that. Over time, our stomachs have shrunk, and have gotten used to the new, smaller portions.

I often have some salad, or veggies, or soup with my meals; and that fills me up fast (I usually eat them first). Slow down and chew more; until it takes you at least 20 minutes to eat your meal. :D

cfan
12-02-2011, 09:43 PM
What about if u have no feeling(or very very rarely) the feeling of hunger? I have to remind myself to eat,and if I'm busy doing projects I just wont. I remember I had project after project, and did not eat (only drank) any meal for 2 days, and didn't even notice at all. And this disconnect is normal for me,and has been for years. Is there something for me that is the reason for this?

Porthardygurl
12-06-2011, 05:17 AM
Thank you all for your advice..No i do not have prader willies sydrome..i am nowhere near close to having issues that are pre-cursors to it. Yes i do have a gluten and wheat allergy..it sucks but its true..and i have eaten wheat and gluten for a very long time so the thought that my body isnt getting enough nutrients out of the food i eat, is probably true..im probably not absorbing as much as im supposed to cause ive messed up my guy from eating so horrible through my life..

I dont believe i have an over-eating problem..but i do believe that i eat a lot because i feel hungry chronically even after i eat..so any thoughs on how to get your body to better absorb nutrients? Ive learned my triggers for when i do eat.. and im learning to avoid situations that trigger it..like boredom for instance.. i try and curb the hunger pains through going to sleep...and getting some more shut eye..

But i truly believe that this is gut related in terms of physically speaking..you are right.. i eat massive amounts.. i eat more than my fiancee..which i agree..makes me think i have stretched my stomach waaaaay beyond the size its supposed to be..any thoughts on how to help with that?

I was just wondering if it was possible that my stomach isnt signaling back to my brain that im full..??? cause i would have thought a good sized stomach ache would have cured my desire to eat..but i dont seem to get a stomach ache even when i eat lots...my stomach just feels empty all the time..and then i end up eating anxiously becasuse i dont like the feeling of feeling empty..its weird..its not that i feel hungry maybe, its just that i feel empty...it feels horrible feeling empty..i like the full feeling..and i want it all day..cause it makes me feel satisfied..any thoughts on how i can gain that without adding more food? how do you deal with that issue?

Esofia
12-06-2011, 06:25 AM
I'm a bit confused. How is that not an overeating problem?

indiblue
12-06-2011, 06:58 AM
It seems fairly widely agreed that carb-heavy and sugar-heavy meals limit one's ability to feel full. For many, it seems it can even beget additional hunger.

Conversely, many (especially Joel Furhman) argue that fiber is nature's way of signaling us to stop eating and our meals should thus be heavily fiber-based (green vegetables, nuts, and beans). If you've ever tried to eat an entire head of broccoli (during which you feel thoroughly stuffed at around 200 calories) you know what I mean.

Michael Pollan also argues that our "full meters" are broken because we eat such nutrient-poor food. This includes packaged/processed foods, empty carbs, and artificially ripened chemically-laden genetically modified produce. There is such little nutrients in these that our body craves more quantity in order to get the full amount vitamins and minerals we need.

I have very little knowledge in this area so take what you will from these perspectives. I think it all points to what makes sense to a lot of people: whole, fresh foods with lots of vegetables and moderate amounts of carbohydrates are how we should be eating. Among the many reasons is that eating more naturally helps us more easily regulate the quantity we consume.

Snoofie
12-06-2011, 11:30 AM
As others have already pointed out, chances are you do not have Prader-Willis Syndrome -- one of the major hallmarks is that people with this condition are infertile, and they also have some degree of developmental delay.

I think that all of us here probably suffer from the inability to truly tell when we are full -- let's face it, none of us would be here if we were able to completely control our hunger signals. But there's a vast difference between that and something like Prader-Willis.

Beach Patrol
12-06-2011, 12:23 PM
ive messed up my gut from eating so horrible through my life..

I dont believe i have an over-eating problem..but i do believe that i eat a lot because i feel hungry chronically even after i eat..

i eat massive amounts.. i eat more than my fiancee..which i agree..makes me think i have stretched my stomach waaaaay beyond the size its supposed to be..

its just that i feel empty...it feels horrible feeling empty..i like the full feeling..and i want it all day..cause it makes me feel satisfied..

Re-read the quote - do you see the contradictions?

You "don't believe" you have an over-eating problem. Then how do you explain your nearly-300-pound high weight?

You admit to eating "massive amounts" and that you "like the full feeling" cause it makes you feel "satisfied".

I can tell you from my own experience that I thought for the longest time that "I was eating healthy" and that I was eating "a normal amount" of food. When I finally got REAL with myself (key factor!!!!) I realized I was NOT eating healthy and that the amount I thought was normal was NO WHERE NEAR "normal". I LOVE FOOD! - I love the smell, the taste, the chewy-yummy-goodness. Sweets, sours, meats, veggies, proteins, fats, carbs, chew-chew-swallow-fast-fast-fast. Half the time I ate because "it's lunch time! time to eat!" even if I wasn't TRULY hungry. Sometimes I would eat, even when I was COMPLETELY STUFFED because "OMG, it's sooooo good!!!!!!" Many times I would eat because "it was free" or because "it was there" or because "I always have popcorn at the movies!" :rolleyes:

There are MANY reasons why people overeat. Some out of shame, others out of pain. Personally -I suffer from what I call FOOD DISTORTION ORDER. And I think that's what you suffer from as well. You simply eat too much food (for whatever reason.) There is no magic bullet here. You eat too much. PERIOD. So... what are YOU going to do about it? Figuring that out is the first step to your weight loss goal. And 3FC is here to help you! So let's start off with a :hug:

Don't hold back! - get medieval with yourself. Stop looking for some special reason that you are fat and start scrutinizing what goes into your mouth on a daily basis. Food is for sustenance. You need it to survive. But too much of it can kill you. Literally.

You can DO this. It takes TIME. It takes DEDICATION. Some weeks you may gain a pound (or two or three!) while others you may lose even tho you ate off plan. But the bottom line is that you must decide what path you want to take to lose the weight. If you don't see the results you want after a specific amount of time, choose another path. There are literally HUNDREDS of diets out there. MANY different ways to exercise. SIMPLE MATH! - Create a calorie deficit - all diets aim to do just that in one form or another. Just stick to your plan, and YOU WILL LOSE WEIGHT. Give up, and you won't.

:hug:

Munchy
12-06-2011, 12:46 PM
Coming from someone with an eating disorder, the best way I found to train my body to pay attention to signals, is to schedule my meals/snacks (including exact amounts I will eat) for particular times of the day.

I write down my menu for the following day and follow particular times.

8:30am - B: high fiber pita, oz goat cheese, egg white w/ mushroom
11:00am - S: Apple
1:30pm - L: 1 cup spicy tomato soup
4:00pm - S: 1 cup baby carrots/grape tomatoes, 1 serving hummus
6:30pm - D: 2 Turkey stuffed zucchini halves, 4oz roasted sweet potato
9:00pm - S: 28g organic cheddar popcorn

After eating like that for a week or two, my body became hungry and full at the appropriate times, and I can follow my cues now (though I find my cues follow what I've dictated as appropriate).

Rana
12-06-2011, 01:03 PM
my stomach just feels empty all the time..and then i end up eating anxiously becasuse i dont like the feeling of feeling empty..its weird..its not that i feel hungry maybe, its just that i feel empty...it feels horrible feeling empty..i like the full feeling..and i want it all day..cause it makes me feel satisfied..any thoughts on how i can gain that without adding more food? how do you deal with that issue?

I say this very gently... Do you think maybe you're feeling emotionally empty, rather than your stomach feeling empty?

For a while, when I first started my journey, I had to be okay with my stomach feeling "empty". I didn't really know if it was empty empty, or if it just wasn't stuffed.

When I'm eating because I'm bored (because I want to do something, and eating is better than the task I have to do!), the concept of empty or full is really out of the window.

I've had to really be concious of what is full or not in terms of my hunger/stomach.

And even if your stomach isn't full, the point is NOT to make it full, but rather to give your body food and nutrients and to take away your hunger (real hunger, not emotional hunger).

Real hunger has a series of symptoms that you can feel -- for example, I feel light headed, my stomach rumbles. When my stomach is empty, I feel "light" and I can tell my stomach is not really digesting much. I prefer that feeling when I go to bed, since eating too close to bedtime makes me sleep uncomfortably. I also drink a lot of water when I feel the urge to eat, because I rarely get "thirsty" -- I get hungry instead!

Beach Patrol
12-06-2011, 01:15 PM
An excerpt from "The End of Overeating" - GREAT BOOK! - lots of info!! - VERY HELPFUL :hug:

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2009/07/02/the-end-of-overeating-excerpt

sacha
12-06-2011, 01:33 PM
Rana has a good point - when you eat, are you ever truly hungry? I mean all the actual physical symptoms of hunger - as opposed to "I want to eat, I am going to eat, there's food nearby".

The End of Overeating, as Beach Patrol points out, describes people's reactions to food and the reasons they are compelled to eat it... reasons other than actual hunger.

Many people don't even know what real hunger is anymore. Hunger is what compels the hunter to go out with his spear, for the woman to forage through bushes for berries/nuts with a baby strapped on her back... it's a biological drive that is often confused in our society of plenty & convenience.

Porthardygurl
12-06-2011, 05:30 PM
To answer your question ESOFIA... i guess i dont think of eating out of hunger to be "overeating"...because im talking about eating massive amounts when i feel hungry..its not me eating when im not hungry..its me eating when im hungry..its like..sitting down to dinner when your stomach is hurting cause its so hungry and then its like packing in a whole turkey dinner..but instead of feeling full after eating one plate, you keep feeling hungry..

Maybe im wrong? Maybe i just dont know what it means to be really hungry anymore? I feel like breakfast lunch and dinner are scheduled at certain times as opposed to eating when feeling hunger pains...

To be honest, maybe i just dont understand the concept of what "over-eating" really means.

To the person who suggested OA..unfortunately, i cant find one up here in port hardy..but your welcome to try and help me find one through the internet.. They have AA and NA but not OA

Esofia
12-06-2011, 06:30 PM
"Overeating" means "eating too much", and it's not the same thing as hunger.

JohnP
12-06-2011, 11:01 PM
which i agree..makes me think i have stretched my stomach waaaaay beyond the size its supposed to be..any thoughts on how to help with that?

I was just wondering if it was possible that my stomach isnt signaling back to my brain that im full..??? cause i would have thought a good sized stomach ache would have cured my desire to eat..but i dont seem to get a stomach ache even when i eat lots...my stomach just feels empty all the time..and then i end up eating anxiously becasuse i dont like the feeling of feeling empty..its weird..its not that i feel hungry maybe, its just that i feel empty...it feels horrible feeling empty..i like the full feeling..and i want it all day..cause it makes me feel satisfied..any thoughts on how i can gain that without adding more food? how do you deal with that issue?

Anything is possible but the solution is probably going to be something like this.

Eat less. Yes - you will be hungry. Deal with it. Leigh Peele calls it "Embracing the suck".

You can do anything for 30 days so you might as well start now. Yes, this means you will not be indulging over the holidays. So what.

Try eating somewhere around 1500 calories a day. 3 meals. No gluten, no wheat. Lots of protein, lots of veggies, minimal fruit. I seem to remember you don't really like veggies. Eat them anyways.

Yes, it is going to be hard. But - you're only going to be doing it for 30 days. You can do anything for 30 days.

I'm not a self help guru but I have read a huge number of books on self improvement. The point is this - you cannot change your bad habits. That's impossible. You can create new habits. It takes about 30 days to create a new habit.

After you've estabilished some relatively good eating habits you'll probably do best by adopting intermittent fasting lifestyle. Eating two big meals a day will probably be easier but if you don't have good eating habits first IF will be a disaster.

We're all rooting for you. We know you can do it.

30 days to begin establishing good habits and begin healing your body.

Throw out all the crap in your house. Get your SO on board with the 30 day program.

YOU CAN DO IT!

Tai
12-06-2011, 11:45 PM
Porthardygurl, I think you can attend OA meetings online. I know someone that did the program that way and she really seemed to get a lot out of it. She even had a sponsor that called her each day.

Esofia
12-07-2011, 05:54 AM
Good point - a friend of mine is doing OA online and she says it's going really well. The chat rooms are extremely well organised and moderated, she gets excellent support, and she's completely changed her approach to food (in a good way) and is losing at a very nice rate.

Porthardygurl
12-07-2011, 06:03 AM
YES YES YES... i finally found one.. i found an OA meeting online and figured out how to join it..i think ive done about 3 meetings in one night..and its made me feel a lot better..thanks for the insight..never knew they existed.

John P..thanks for the thoughts..30 days hey..

swtbttrfly23
12-07-2011, 12:42 PM
If you're gluten intolerant, your body hasn't been properly absorbing nutrients, and won't until you adhere to a gluten free diet long enough to heal the damage. Your brain and body learn that you have to eat massive quantities of food to get basic vitamins and minerals absorbed. You can't do that if you are aware of the physical discomfort and distension, so your brain blocks it out.

STRICT adherance to a gluten free diet, time and consciousness are the only cures I know. I had to think about my body a lot. Years of evaluating how I felt and what I'd eaten. It sucks, and it isn't fair. And until you get there, you have to accept that you can't trust your body. That your cravings are wrong. I still wrestle with that, and "I can't stop eating that" or "That's the only thing that sounds good" are big red flags for me. I stop eating when experience tells me I SHOULD be full, even if I'm not. I might eat more later, but I give myself an hour for my brain to catch up.

There's no pill to undo the effects of gluten if you're gluten intolerant. Some you can fix with time and hard work, some you can't. Sorry.

I find this very interesting! I recently (a couple months ago) came to realize that I probably have a gluten intolerance. I'd been on the low carb track for a number of years and that was the only time I seemed to get 'relief' (both for my acne and for my weight) and after adding some carbs back that pointed me to the wheat intolerance. Lately I've felt myself slipping, and I've been feeling this hunger that seemingly can't be satisfied. I'm going to go back to my strict no gluten diet and see if that doesn't help. Thanks for the insight!

And good luck to the OP, I can see what everyone is saying about overeating, but I do feel that sometimes there are physiological factors that exacerbate everything. I think trying out lots of things to see what works best is important. Self awareness is key!