Food Talk And Fabulous Finds - Isn't it nice that a smidge of tomato paste spread on bread is now a veggie?




cbmare
11-18-2011, 03:11 PM
I guess congress wants the kids to be obese as it is. However, pizza is now a veggie? Tomato paste spread on bread and covered with preproccessed crap is now a veggie.

I love pizza, but I'm so picky about what I will eat. I do not consider it a veggie. I consider a few of the toppings veggies. If I get a veggie pizza, I still consider it a rare treat.

Am I the only one who feels this way?


mandalinn82
11-18-2011, 03:22 PM
Well, technically, the sauce on a pizza had always counted as a veggie. The bill that passed is just to keep that as it is today, instead of changing it so it doesn't count.

I still think it's deplorable.

Jonsgurl0531
11-18-2011, 04:01 PM
Are you really getting a serving of veggies in the tiny amount of sauce on one piece of pizza.... I mean really that is crazy.


cbmare
11-18-2011, 04:21 PM
Tomatoes are actually a fruit. Somewhere in time, the government decided to call a cooked tomato a veggie so it would benefit the processing industry. At any rate, a dab of it is hardly a veggie serving, just like a squirt of ketchup on fries should not count as 2 veggies.

lissvarna
11-18-2011, 04:48 PM
Yeah, it's ridiculous. Just reinforcing that it's okay to serve crap food to school children... And then we wonder why there's a childhood obesity epidemic.

cbmare
11-18-2011, 05:31 PM
Yeah, it's ridiculous. Just reinforcing that it's okay to serve crap food to school children... And then we wonder why there's a childhood obesity epidemic.

There is another thread around here some place discussing why some schools are blocking home packed lunches. Granted they wanted the kids to quit bringing a 2 liter bottle of soda and bag of chips for lunch, but at least give some healthy alternatives. They say the kids have been throwing away the good stuff. Well, I'd think that after a while, they'd pick up on the fact that heathy choices were all you were going to get if the other crap isn't served.

LovelyLeah
11-23-2011, 01:56 AM
So...the freshmen fifteen was the result of eating too many veggies? Thanks, congress, it all makes sense now! :dizzy:

kaplods
11-23-2011, 03:26 AM
Tomatoes are actually a fruit. Somewhere in time, the government decided to call a cooked tomato a veggie so it would benefit the processing industry. At any rate, a dab of it is hardly a veggie serving, just like a squirt of ketchup on fries should not count as 2 veggies.

The government did not "decide" that tomatoes were a vegetable, any more than the government decided that green beans, zucchini, eggplant, summer and winter squashes, cucumbers, bell peppers, hot peppers..... were vegetables (they're all fruits, because anything that contains seeds is a fruit).

The government didn't decide that these fruits were vegetables, our common culture did. Just as our same culture decided that rhubarb was a fruit (botanically it's actually a vegetable, in culinary usage, it's a fruit).

The botanical definitions of fruits and vegetables are determined by the structure of the plant.

The culinary definitions of fruits and vegetables are determined by the culinary usage.

In Victorian times, tomatoes were considered fruits in both senses of the word, and were often served with cream and sugar, much like berries (sound "icky" to someone raised with tomatoes as vegetables)...

melodymist
11-23-2011, 04:26 AM
The government did not "decide" that tomatoes were a vegetable, any more than the government decided that green beans, zucchini, eggplant, summer and winter squashes, cucumbers, bell peppers, hot peppers..... were vegetables (they're all fruits, because anything that contains seeds is a fruit).

The government didn't decide that these fruits were vegetables, our common culture did. Just as our same culture decided that rhubarb was a fruit (botanically it's actually a vegetable, in culinary usage, it's a fruit).

The botanical definitions of fruits and vegetables are determined by the structure of the plant.

The culinary definitions of fruits and vegetables are determined by the culinary usage.

In Victorian times, tomatoes were considered fruits in both senses of the word, and were often served with cream and sugar, much like berries (sound "icky" to someone raised with tomatoes as vegetables)...

Thank you kaplods! I found this really interesting. We learn something new everyday :):hug:

cbmare
11-23-2011, 12:16 PM
The government did not "decide" that tomatoes were a vegetable, any more than the government decided that green beans, zucchini, eggplant, summer and winter squashes, cucumbers, bell peppers, hot peppers..... were vegetables (they're all fruits, because anything that contains seeds is a fruit).

The government didn't decide that these fruits were vegetables, our common culture did. Just as our same culture decided that rhubarb was a fruit (botanically it's actually a vegetable, in culinary usage, it's a fruit).

The botanical definitions of fruits and vegetables are determined by the structure of the plant.

The culinary definitions of fruits and vegetables are determined by the culinary usage.

In Victorian times, tomatoes were considered fruits in both senses of the word, and were often served with cream and sugar, much like berries (sound "icky" to someone raised with tomatoes as vegetables)...

I have to disagree. I did watch Alton Brown on his show discussing the history of it and the government which had me looking it up. I found the following:

"Fruit or Vegetable?
Ever wonder why we consider a tomato a vegetable even though it is a fruit? You can lay part of the blame on the U.S. Supreme Court and maybe some on government greed. In 1887, U.S. tariff laws imposed a 10 percent duty on vegetables, but none on fruit. A tomato importer named John Nix sued the tax collector for the port of New York, Edward L. Hedden, arguing that tomatoes, since they were "really" fruits, should be exempt from the tax. Read Nix v. Hedden, 149 U.S. 304 (1893) here.

The botanical claim was not in dispute; tomatoes, as the seed-bearing ripened ovary of a flower, are fruits. Yet in a triumph of ordinary language over scholarly, the highest court of the land ruled in 1893 that the tomato was a vegetable and therefore subject to the tariff. In his decision, Justice Gray wrote: "Botanically speaking, tomatoes are fruits of a vine, just as are cucumbers, squashes, beans, and peas. But in the common language of the people ... all these are vegetables ... which, whether eaten cooked or raw, are ... usually served at dinner in, with or after the soup, fish or meats which constitute the principal part of the repast, and not, like fruits generally, as dessert." If you're not too distracted by the vision of a Supreme Court justice pontificating on the distinction between dinner and dessert, you can contemplate two further botanical curiosities: First, most of us have heard that the tomato is "really" a fruit, but did you know that it is even more really a berry? Yes, really. Furthermore, this plant that most Americans grow exclusively as an annual is actually a perennial and will grow as such in its native and wild state. In fact, if inclined, you can nurse a tomato through the winter indoors and set it out again the next year."

http://www.tomatogardeningguru.com/history.html

kaplods
11-23-2011, 04:20 PM
I have to disagree. I did watch Alton Brown on his show discussing the history of it and the government which had me looking it up. I found the following:

"Fruit or Vegetable?
Ever wonder why we consider a tomato a vegetable even though it is a fruit? You can lay part of the blame on the U.S. Supreme Court



Yes, but the operative word here is PART (not ALL, and I would argue not even MOST).

ValRock
11-23-2011, 04:32 PM
I am SO glad my son's school always serves an actual fresh veg and fruit above and beyond the 'requirement'. My son eats an apple and some fresh salad greens with his lunch every day. He's watched me dump my dinner on my salads at dinner every night and now does the same. I wish every school in the nation would get on board and offer more healthy options. There are so many kids who never touch fresh produce... it's sad and scary :(.

cbmare
11-23-2011, 07:30 PM
Yes, but the operative word here is PART (not ALL, and I would argue not even MOST).

I'm not going to argue with what you are saying other than the fact that I did indeed point out that the government had to interfere and call a fruit a veggie. That is all I was pointing out.

We should question what the tell us. After all, haven't you heard? Pizza is a veggie. It is deceptive and crap as far as I'm concerned. They do not have anyone's, other than their, best interest at heart. It is I can be bought but who is willing to pay the most for me to say what they want.

cbmare
11-23-2011, 07:32 PM
I am SO glad my son's school always serves an actual fresh veg and fruit above and beyond the 'requirement'. My son eats an apple and some fresh salad greens with his lunch every day. He's watched me dump my dinner on my salads at dinner every night and now does the same. I wish every school in the nation would get on board and offer more healthy options. There are so many kids who never touch fresh produce... it's sad and scary :(.

Wow! Is this a public school? I'm impressed.

sensualappeal
11-28-2011, 10:25 PM
Oh my gosh, when I heard this I was enfuriated. I couldn't believe it. This criteria basically allows EVERY dish to be a veggie. Tomato paste? Spaghetti then is a veggie too. So is lasagna. These aren't vegggies they are dishes, just as pizza is a dish as well. What is the world coming to, seriously? And they wonder why children are becoming increasingly overweight younger.

mandalinn82
11-28-2011, 11:03 PM
Oh my gosh, when I heard this I was enfuriated. I couldn't believe it. This criteria basically allows EVERY dish to be a veggie. Tomato paste? Spaghetti then is a veggie too. So is lasagna. These aren't vegggies they are dishes, just as pizza is a dish as well. What is the world coming to, seriously? And they wonder why children are becoming increasingly overweight younger.
__________________

Again, so it's clear, the regulation doesn't say that a bowl of pasta counts as a veggie and ONLY as a veggie. It only says that the tomato sauce portion of that dish can count toward the minimum vegetable servings required by law for the meal.

So pizza, for example, would be a grain (crust), a protein (cheese), a dairy (also cheese) and a veggie (sauce) serving. Spaghetti would be a grain (pasta), a meat/protein (ground beef) and a veggie (sauce) serving.

To say that the government declared "pizza a veggie" is misleading. PIZZA is a combination food which contains many different servings of different food groups, and ONE of those servings is a veggie serving due to the sauce.

Nibbles
11-29-2011, 01:34 AM
I don't think there's any need to get bent out of shape about how, exactly, the government defines pizza sauce. Unless they make the rules exceedingly meticulous, there's no way to prevent unhealthy food from being served in a given school lunchroom. I doubt anyone would argue that okra or spinach are vegetables, but that doesn't mean that the lunch lady can't serve them deep fried or creamed and still be within the law. Technically, the tomato paste (assuming it actually is tomato paste and not high fructose corn syrup and red dye number 40) is quite healthy on its own, whether you want to consider it a veg or a fruit. As far as calling it a veg goes, I'm all for it. Let's just hope that schools can get the funding to serve their pizzas on whole grain pitas with some delicious fresh broccoli and peppers on top.

kaplods
11-29-2011, 03:29 AM
I have to say that I'm alot less worried about tomato sauce being considered a vegetable - or a fruit for that matter, than I am about potato being considered a vegetable.

When I was watching Jamie Oliver's show, I learned that french fries are the primary "vegetable" served in many schools. And the entire 1.5 cupss of veggies that the schools have to serve, can be comprised of potato.

So a burger and 1.5 cups of fries is considered protein servings, starch servings (from the bun) and 1.5 cups of veggies for the potato.

At least with ketchup and tomato paste, the lycopene is actually more bio-available than in fresh tomatoes (so processing actually has some benefit where tomatoes are concerned).

But to count potatoes, especially deep-fried potatoes as a vegetable, when the Standard American Diet is already overabundant in carbohydrates and fat, seems ridiculous - especially with the childhood obesity and diabetes rates so prevalent and on the rise.

Exchange plans have lost popularity, but they're still one of the easiest and most convenient ways to "balance" a diet, and it strkes me as odd, that it isn't used as a tool for designing and regulating school lunches.

DesertTabby
12-01-2011, 02:25 AM
What? Potatoes are considered vegetables now? Growing up I was raised to think it was carbohydrate (aaah, the food pyramid.)

I used to joke with my sister that a hamburger is the most ideal food in terms of the food pyramid. You have your protein, your carb/starch, your veg, and your dairy...But now I guess its no longer a joke.. D:

kaplods
12-01-2011, 02:49 AM
What? Potatoes are considered vegetables now? Growing up I was raised to think it was carbohydrate (aaah, the food pyramid.)

I used to joke with my sister that a hamburger is the most ideal food in terms of the food pyramid. You have your protein, your carb/starch, your veg, and your dairy...But now I guess its no longer a joke.. D:

From what I understood this isn't a change, at least not a recent one. So it's not that potatoes are "now" considered a vegetable, it's that they always (or for quite some time, at least) have been considered a vegetable.


Corn, peas, and beans (in my opinion) also should be considered starches, but my guess is that they're not.