100 lb. Club - War with Iraq




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Jen
02-10-2003, 12:16 PM
I didn't want to post a comment on slimdown's poll thread as she asked not to and don't want to start a heated arguement either, just wondering if people wanted to air their thoughts and fears.

I think for me, living in Canada, I have somewhat a different perspective on the situation particularly if the USA decides to go to war without the sanctions of the UN and they are 'going it alone'. Also I wonder what or how our perspectives have changed since 9/11. I think prior to that we weren't really too worried about any country using nuclear or chemical weapons as any sane person can see that there will be no winner. However if 9/11 has shown us anything it is that some people will use whatever methods necessary to achieve their goals.

I suppose we felt quite safe in our own homes during the Gulf War. It seemed pretty unlikely that there would be a direct retaliation against civilians. That feeling of safety is gone now because how can we be sure that there are no more terrorists lurking around North American ready to commit more acts of terrorism if there is war.

I am fearful of going to war but uncertain what might happen if someone doesn't take some action.


Jennelle
02-10-2003, 05:57 PM
I'm glad to hear a Canadian's perspective, Jen. (You know, most Americans assume Canadians think all Americans are full of themselves! :lol: )

Anyhow, I'm torn as well. Having been in the military and having worked in positions where a security clearance was required, I'm well aware that there are probably many things that the public doesn't know about that are contributing to this push towards war. On the other hand, history is full of instances where the government has twisted the fact (or flat-out lied) in order to gain support for unpopular stances.

I worry for the kids, too. My son will be 16 in August - just two years away from having to register for Selective Service. If the draft comes back, well, he'd end up going to war if it dragged on. I can't help but remember a scene from a Vietnam movie. The new soldiers were getting ready to leave for Vietnam, and the guy in charge told them to look at the men on either side of them. "One of them won't be coming home," he said.

I also worry for a boy in my class whose father and two cousins have deployed.

KittyMilk
02-10-2003, 10:14 PM
The U.S should not go it alone. Well seems like they will be bringing Australia alone for the ride but that's our silly P.M's fault. The UN needs to do it as one. If the US goes against the UN on this then they may be guilty of commiting a war crime. I feel that Bush is too keen on war, family fued is one way he put it (bit scary that) I thought the problem was with Bin Laden and just because they can't catch him doesn't mean they should go after Saddum hassan. I have yet to see any clear evidence of Iraq being involved with terrism in the west. It's most likely there somewhere and if it is the inpectors will find it. Whenever Bush says he must go to war to make peace I shudder. I also remember how with vietnam it was the commie threat, now most ppl feel that war was a mistake and I wonder if Bush attacks Iraq how ppl will feel about it all in 20 years time?
I do think the U.S should be worried about attacking a country that hasn't yet attacked it. Just my two cents worth but I am worried about this escalating into the 3 world war,
Why can't these men (notice no women are involved? We make babies we don't destroy them) Work for peace instead of war?


Kitty


Jen
02-10-2003, 11:14 PM
Jennelle, you bring up an interesting point. the Gulf War was essentially about oil. Is this whole situation too but just being disguised as concern over weapons of mass destruction?? It is hard to say. Obviously we can't feel safe anymore about not facing these weapons from Iraq or terrorists who support Iraq. As Kitty said I don't think anyone has proven a clear connection between Osama Bin Laden and Hussein but do we really need one? If there is a war between the US and Iraq I think you could bet that any terrorist cells in the US would act in support of Iraq because of their common hatred of the US.

Kimberelly
02-11-2003, 10:15 AM
While I am quite convinced that Saddam Hussein is an evil dictator, and
it would be good to get rid of him, I also think a war could have all sorts of other consequences, including, it seems to me, more fuel to the Al Qaeda argument, that we are all engaged in a holy war.

I also think it's been very dangerous to link Iraq to Al Qaeda in people's minds, particularly when there seems to be no evidence of this at all, because it deflects attention from what Al Qaeda is actually doing. In my opinion (for what it's worth) it seems to me that Al Qaeda supporters are not connected to particular states, with the possible exception of Afghanistan. So traditional wars of the kind which seems to be about to take place will not make any difference. It's a bit like bombing Italy to get rid of the Mafia.

That said, after having lost friends on 9/11 (the whole family -- husband, wife and two children under 10 -- was on one of the planes that careened into the World Trade Towers), I can understand why we need to be more cautious. Some of this stems from the fact that no-one pushed the UN to keep Iraq to its promise to disarm for 12 years -- and that's a bit like raising a child without any structure, then trying to discipline him in his teens.

Well, you can see I have a lot of thoughts on this. Oh well...

MzPen
02-12-2003, 08:14 AM
I think I'm a little surprised to hear these opinions ... I guess it's because I listen to a lot of talk radio, and many of the people on there are so in support of invading Iraq - and seems like about half of them want to abolish the UN. And they love to spin things to make it seem as if the majority of Americans are chomping at the bit to go to war, and that those of us who are in opposition are a bunch of stupid, unpatriotic liberals.

I'm with you guys on this. More and more, and not just with this Administration or with any particular Party, I do not trust what our government says. Not to the point of being a fanatic holed up in the woods armed to the teeth! Heck, I don't trust what other nations say, either. Last night I heard about the latest Osama bin Laden tape, which I understand urges the Iraqi people to rise up against the US ... and that the White House's response to this was "See? There's our proof -- there IS a tie between Iraq and Al Quaeda!" What??? My husband made an interesting comment this morning ... The world of international detente is a chess game, and George Bush is a poker player ...

But I do feel torn, as I can see a lot of you do. I don't think we can all turn our backs on Saddam Hussein and his shenanigans, but I don't feel the answer is to rush in and turn Iraq into a wasteland. I'm glad to say that I don't wander around in fear all the time, but I do worry that we haven't seen the last of terrorism on our soil ... Is it going to start feeling like Israel here? Are we all going to begin wondering every time we go into a shopping mall whether a suicide bomber might be in our midst?

For Pete's sake, all most of us want to do -- Americans, Australians, Iraqis -- is to live our lives in relative peace! Perhaps some think we're foolish or naive - but is this not a noble goal?

Pen

rochemist
02-12-2003, 08:34 AM
I do not trust Bush. I think this whole thing is about his father and oil. But what I have seen of Colin Powell is a thoughtful and trustworthy conservative. He has been there and Suddam is hiding stuff. Also I believe he is stalling. Waiting for us to make a move and come back looking like dictators trying to take over the world while he teases the inspectors and runs a cross propaganda show. In fact all the propaganda has made it quite hard to figure out what is going on.

Overall I don't agree with war ever. I will support our troops, I have no choice more than likely they will deploy my father and I already have a cousin and a co-worker out there.

So there is my 2 cents and mostly it sounds wishy washy because truly there are so many facets of this whole situation that clear cuts decisions are not easily seen.
Miss Chris

Jen
02-12-2003, 02:16 PM
It is really hard to make an informed decision about this because you can't say for certain that we have all the information and everyone is being honest.

While I can't say for sure that there is a direct link between Iraq and the Al Quaeda I am pretty sure that they (the terrorists) would commit acts of terrorism on US soil if there is a war in support of Iraq.