Weight Loss Support - 40 days of juice fasting..here i come




Porthardygurl
11-14-2011, 03:19 AM
Ive been struggling with my body for a long time. Iv struggld to know what to do. But i finally decided. Im going to be starting a fast for 40 days on pure veggies and fruit juices. Ive been reading online about how juice fasting has been useful in treating people with digestive issues. My major issue is that im addicted to bread and wheat and gluten and yet im very intolerant to it..it makes me sick sick sick..but i cant seem to stop..but...ive read up on the benefits and i got my juicer and im ready to go. Please keep in mind its for 40 days and then i embark on a diet of 75% veggies and 25% of meat and dairy..and gluten and wheat will be completely eliminated..i hope that this will help in dealing with my pregnant looking belly and ill feelings i have after eating.. Wish me luck.


Rosinante
11-14-2011, 03:40 AM
Are you doing this fast under medical supervision? 40 days of fasting is a Very long time.

I too have problems with bread and associated carbohydrates - not only do they give me fluid retention, internal disorders, and bad skin but one taste, one slice and I'm lost to the whole loaf; I find them very addictive.

I'm currently following a lower-carb diet (Dukan), which, hugely to my surprise, eliminated carb cravings from week one - but is giving me plenty of good food to eat and 13lbs lost in 4 weeks.

I don't have the medical knowledge to offer actual advice but as a fellow human being and body struggler, I would urge you to make sure your doctor is happy with your plans.
And I do indeed wish you luck! :)

SunnyJee
11-14-2011, 04:07 AM
Okay....

If you have problems digesting bread and wheat and gluten, what if...you just didn't eat bread, and wheat, and gluten?

Do you have problems digesting chicken? Or eggs? Or beef? Rice, tofu, fish, seafood, beans, nuts, seeds.... See where I'm going maybe?

Not to assume too much, but if you have issues with food (and don't we pretty much all in here), then I can't even fathom how absolutely difficult it would be to give up solids for 40 days. Not even in theory does it sound plausible.

How many calories will you be able to ingest if you only take in fruits and vegetables? Will you even be able to hit 1200?

If you are planning on taking in fruits in high amounts, have you thought about the abundance of sugars you would also be taking in? Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against fruit whatsoever. It's a part of my balanced diet. But I can maybe imagine how many fruit servings you would have to take in to achieve a livable balance of calories, since vegetables are even lower in caloric intake than most fruits...

I remember when I was quite a bit younger...I was really desperate to lose weight. I went on the Master Cleanse. Lasted 4 days. I can be extremely disciplined, but I had never encountered giving up solid foods before then. It was...difficult, to say the least. And it had nothing to do with the reduced calories, and everything to do with not having solids.

Have you tried doing juicing or a liquid diet before?
For me, it was a new level of insanity. I started dreaming about real food. After two days.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.
I know that with me, when I chose drastic actions in the past, it was so much more demoralizing to fail because I would, EVERY time, VERY quickly because of how impossible it was for me to keep it up.


Porthardygurl
11-14-2011, 04:20 AM
to answer all the questions:

1) yes i too did the lemon water thing and its insane
2) by eating veggies and fruits and agave and honey-the combination throughout the day including avocados..should total over 1200..though its a lot of veggies and fruits
3) while i agree my diet needs to change... i feel the need to do it to kick start myself..and for me im hoping to break the cycle of addiction to bad things while learning how to love the good things-which i currently dont like right now.
4) it is medically supervised..im having my blood drawn and body stats checked prior to starting tommorw..i also agreed that should their be ANY serious issues or signs of illness while doing it, i agree to stop right away..

fuct
11-14-2011, 05:45 AM
Well as long as you're medically supervised, I'm going to wish you luck :) The longest I lasted without eating was a 10 day water fast, so I know how tough cutting out whole food groups can be. Good luck!

Unna
11-14-2011, 07:51 AM
Good luck.

But remember you can still get a lot of benefits from giving up the gluten and juicing maybe, once a day or so.

I mean, just in case you can't live happily without the solid food. You could eat healthily and then, for example, juice for dinner.

It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

Anyway, I love juicing and my favorite concoction is either carrots or cucumbers with ginger, lemon, and apple. You could also add coconut milk if you wanted to up your fat intake.

Btw, did you choose the "40" because of the biblical reference?

bargoo
11-14-2011, 08:15 AM
What are you going to do for protein ?

madmadz
11-14-2011, 09:31 AM
I fell compelled to urge you to be careful doing this. I am a vegetarian and I have to CONSTANTLY all day long plan everything I consume to ensure I am getting enough protein. I have slipped up at times and my protein consumption was very low and I felt like crap the whole time. I guess what I am trying to say is, you need to make sure everything you are juicing is high in protein and healthy carbs otherwise you are going to not feel very well. I am only saying this because I have been there. Juicing is a great idea! If you cant do just plain juice all day, make yourself some veggie soups. Alot of times I will take the pulp from the veggie juice and make a soup out of it. That way I am getting the fiber from the pulp as well. Also I dont like waste!

Unna
11-14-2011, 10:21 AM
Would a protein powder (such as natural hemp) work?

You could also make your own almond milk or cashew cream. Both are quite easy.

Esofia
11-14-2011, 12:38 PM
Who's doing the medical supervision?

hatgirlie
11-14-2011, 12:51 PM
Good luck! Let us know how it's going.

Porthardygurl
11-14-2011, 02:41 PM
My GP is doing the supervising...

I chose 40 from the biblical refrence..
So far this morning..its going awesome

david
11-14-2011, 03:00 PM
a friend from work is using "reboot your life"... he is on his last day of 60 days and says he feels great...i know it's not for me, but it may be worth checking out...http://jointhereboot.com/

bellastarr
11-14-2011, 09:39 PM
Best of luck....40 days is a long time to go without eating.

JohnP
11-14-2011, 10:21 PM
Personally I think this is a bad idea specifically because it isn't teaching you what you really need to learn - good eating habits.

The second reason I think this is a bad idea is that the lack of protein is going to mean a much greater loss of muscle than you would ordinarily lose while dieting.

The third reason this is a bad idea in my opinion is that if you're planning on downing 1200 calories of veggies and fruits that means that a huge number of your calories are coming from sugar. How is this going to help your carb addiction?

The fourth reason this is a bad idea in my opinion is that you are going to be very hungry. Dispite the fiber your liquid diet is going to do little to satiate you. So if you do manage to stick with the program you're setting yourself up for a big binge down the road.

I would urge you to reconsider. As long as you're doing something medically supervised I would instead suggest a form of a PSMF. Personally the one I would reccomend is "Rapid Fat Loss" by Lyle Mcdonald. It is all whole foods and you would actually be ingesting fewer calories thus losing weight faster and it suffers from none of the drawbacks I've outlined above.

If you have already decided - than I wish you the best of luck. Sincerely I do.

SunnyJee
11-14-2011, 10:32 PM
Personally I think this is a bad idea specifically because it isn't teaching you what you really need to learn - good eating habits.

The second reason I think this is a bad idea is that the lack of protein is going to mean a much greater loss of muscle than you would ordinarily lose while dieting.

The third reason this is a bad idea in my opinion is that if you're planning on downing 1200 calories of veggies and fruits that means that a huge number of your calories are coming from sugar. How is this going to help your carb addiction?

The fourth reason this is a bad idea in my opinion is that you are going to be very hungry. Dispite the fiber your liquid diet is going to do little to satiate you. So if you do manage to stick with the program you're setting yourself up for a big binge down the road.

I would urge you to reconsider. As long as you're doing something medically supervised I would instead suggest a form of a PSMF. Personally the one I would reccomend is "Rapid Fat Loss" by Lyle Mcdonald. It is all whole foods and you would actually be ingesting fewer calories thus losing weight faster and it suffers from none of the drawbacks I've outlined above.

If you have already decided - than I wish you the best of luck. Sincerely I do.




Everything JohnP said!!!

The Dukan Diet is also a close version of PSMF....basically protein-rich, low fat, virtually no carb... Very effective.
Eating that way for a short period of time actually broke a stall I had a little while ago.

Good luck, but if you find that the juice fasting doesn't work for you, I highly recommend a version of PSMF. Extremely effective, if you're looking for rather quick results...

kaplods
11-14-2011, 10:53 PM
Over the past 40 years, I've dieted in almost every way imaginable, and can say that virtually without exception every diet that offered a "jump start," was an incredibly bad idea.

And juice fasts are one of the worst (especially to embark on for more than a few days).


I'm extremely surprised that your GP thinks this is a good idea. As JohnP mentioned, low-protein diets have been implicated in greater muscle loss. The medical community has known this for a long time, so why isn't your GP concerned?

Also as already mentioned, with a juice fast, essentially 100% of your calories will be coming from not just carbs, but from the highest glyceminc, carbohydrates - sugars, from which the healthiest component (the fiber) has been thrown in the trash. And 1200 calories of sugar is not going to help you break a carb habit, it's only going to make it worse, by choosing the fastest way to get carbs into your system short of intravenously.

Personally, I'd choose a zero calorie, no-food fast over a diet of 1200 calories of liquid sugar (and I'd never choose a zero calorie diet).

At least 1200 calories of high-protein, low-carb eating would conserve muscle loss, and would get you off carbs for a while (I'm not convinced that going off carbs competely is necessary, but concentrating your carbs in the form of a juice fast, definitely isn't the way to go).

Maybe your doctor thinks that anything you're willing to do is worth a try, but the odds of a juice fast being the ideal solution is just about nil, because without fats, fiber, and protein, you're likely to experience blood sugar spikes that can drive hunger into overdrive.

If you experience light headedness, racing heart beat, diarrhea, or even euphoria, please recognize these as warning signs, not "proof" that the body is detoxing. Even though some of the advocates of juice fasts believe so - these symptpms aren't good signs of detoxing, they're indications of physical damage. The euphoria and light headedness being caused by the release of endorphins (the body's pain killers) in response to physical stress/damage to the body.

Most doctors have very little to no training in nutrition, so please consider speaking with a dietitian about your plans. And ask for warning signs to be aware of, and what do do in case of, so that you can be prepared for the worst.

ValRock
11-14-2011, 11:05 PM
How would your body not completely consume your muscle tissue with no protein? Please be careful.

nelie
11-15-2011, 12:07 AM
How would your body not completely consume your muscle tissue with no protein? Please be careful.

I don't particularly endorse this and not exactly sure what the OP's nutrient breakdown is but basically everything that is grown naturally has protein in it. "Reboot your Life" which is a short term veggie/fruit diet meets the daily requirements for protein. So if you are eating a variety of fruits and veggies and juicing to get the quantity in, then you should really have no issue with protein.

JohnP
11-15-2011, 02:26 AM
I don't particularly endorse this and not exactly sure what the OP's nutrient breakdown is but basically everything that is grown naturally has protein in it. "Reboot your Life" which is a short term veggie/fruit diet meets the daily requirements for protein. So if you are eating a variety of fruits and veggies and juicing to get the quantity in, then you should really have no issue with protein.

With respect - please check the nutrition on fruits and vegtables. Do they have protein? Yes. Will eating a 1200 kcal diet of fruits and vegtables provide adequate protein? Not even close.

I'm not familiar with the juicing propoganda (from a company selling juicing machines no less) but I've read enough to know that if protein is inadequate muscle loss will be significant in a large caloric deficit. This will be compounded by the high sugar percentage of the intake which will increase insulin levels blunting fat oxidation thereby increasing the bodies need to utilize the sugar rather than store it thereby increasing muscle catabolization through the night.

In short - juicing diets devoid of protein are not what I would reccomend to anyone, ever.

This is just my opinion. I'm not trying to be unsupportive to the OP. I'm just hoping she doesn't follow this terribly misguided idea.

lucyford
11-15-2011, 03:27 AM
With respect - please check the nutrition on fruits and vegtables. Do they have protein? Yes. Will eating a 1200 kcal diet of fruits and vegtables provide adequate protein? Not even close.

I'm not familiar with the juicing propoganda (from a company selling juicing machines no less) but I've read enough to know that if protein is inadequate muscle loss will be significant in a large caloric deficit. This will be compounded by the high sugar percentage of the intake which will increase insulin levels blunting fat oxidation thereby increasing the bodies need to utilize the sugar rather than store it thereby increasing muscle catabolization through the night.

In short - juicing diets devoid of protein are not what I would reccomend to anyone, ever.

This is just my opinion. I'm not trying to be unsupportive to the OP. I'm just hoping she doesn't follow this terribly misguided idea.

^^^^THIS.

yoyoma
11-15-2011, 07:17 AM
I really hate to pile on more negativity when the OP is looking for support in her selected approach, but I also see red flags. In addition to all concerns I see others expressing, the OP mentions adding agave. Please be aware that agave is primarily fructose and fructose has well-known health concerns. Fructose does avoid blood sugar spikes (because it is metabolized slowly in the liver instead of quickly the way glucose is in the digestive tract). But the metabolism of fructose in the liver has its own set of problems and is the reason that many people avoid high-fructose corn syrup and sucrose (table sugar, which breaks down into 50% glucose and 50% fructose, about the same proportion as HFCS). You may still feel it is worthwhile to choose to add fructose (in the form af agave) to your diet, but please make sure you feel you are adequately informed about the trade-offs first.

I guess I am also concerned because I see the OP reaching for highly-marketed solutions (commercial juicer, "natural" agave). The diet industry is not interested in your success, just your money. People here really do care that folks asking for help find the approach that helps them achieve success. There are a lot of different approaches that work for different people (and even for a given individual, what works may change over time). And there is a lot of trial-and-error. I am glad that you are willing to try different approaches because it's only by trying new methods that you can find a successful strategy, if the old methods don't work for you. But I think you should try to stack the odds in your favor by finding an approach that has a good track record of success with people who are similar to you. Maybe you could ask people who are highly carb sensitive what sort of weight loss plan worked for them? I personally had to cut out all bread myself in order to lose weight. And it seems I have to stay bread-free in order to maintain. In the past, I've found that if I start eating 1/2 whole wheat bagel (which we have on hand for my daughter) once in a while that it's the beginning of the end for me (I'm a yoyo dieter). I had to make lots of other changes as well, and I continue to constantly tweak my approach.

sacha
11-15-2011, 07:31 AM
OP,

Is your doctor well aware of your struggles with sugar, breads, various diet plans, emotional struggles related to eating?

Is there any way your doctor can instead refer you to an experienced registered dietician? Unfortunately many doctors do not have much knowledge of nutrition and perhaps an experienced registered dietician can help decide whether or not this is really a good idea for you.

Others have all made very valid points. Good luck to you :hug:

Esofia
11-15-2011, 08:04 AM
I'm also rather concerned because you wrote this in another thread:

hi there. Im actually starting a full 40 day juice fast tommorow. Im doing it cause my body is really sick and in need of serious cleansing and im hoping that by doing this, it will help me with my wheat and gluten intolerance issue and i will lose weight and improve my health..good luck!

Please could you tell us what you mean by "my body is really sick"? Are you talking about one or more diagnosed medical conditions? Do you suspect that you have certain medical conditions but do not yet have a diagnosis? Do you mean that you suffer from certain symptoms, such as diarrhoea or fatigue, but don't yet know what is causing them?

The concerns everyone here is expressing about a juice fast would apply to someone healthy. They apply even more to someone who is ill. As I said in the other thread, the real meaning of "detox" is when someone with a major addiction comes off alcohol, drugs or similar. It can involve things such as dementia (not always temporary, unfortunately), incontinence, inability to stand, psychosis, and a lot more, and a person going through it will need professional nursing care if not hospitalisation. The popular idea of detox, where you restrict your diet and consume unusual foods and/or lots of supplements, is nothing to do with detoxification at all. It's based on unscientific ideas about cleansing the body which conveniently ignore the fact that the body does a pretty nifty job of cleansing itself. If our bowels, liver and so forth were functioning as poorly as these crash diets masquerading as detox regimes claim, we'd all be hospitalised and near death. "Detox" regimes exist to pull in lots of money for the people who invented them, and it's usually easy to find out what the downsides are by googling the name of the programme together with "risk" or "scam".

I know that you're desperate to lose weight and sort out your health issues. I know that juice fasting seems incredibly appealing. I've been seriously ill for over 14 years with a medical condition which is not only one of the most disabling in existence, but also cannot be cured and has precious little in the way of treatment possibilities. And then there was the weight gain on top of that. So I know extremely well what it's like to want something like this to work, because I spent years trying alternative therapies and peculiar eating regimes in the hope that something would make me better. At best they lost me a lot of money, and at worst they made my health worse and messed with my head. It took me years to find a few supplements that helped, and I had to develop strict rules about how I would research them and evaluate how well they were really working for me. I don't go by what the manufacturers claim, I start my research in forums very like this one, only for people with my medical condition instead.

I also imagine that you don't want to give up now that you've made the emotional commitment, let alone the financial investment in a juicer. But if it were really this easy to cure illness and obesity through something this simple, then everyone would be cured. If it's a really expensive juicer, then you can always look into the possibilities of a refund or selling it on second-hand. If you want to keep it, then I'm sure there are ways of incorporating the odd bit of vegetable juice into your diet which are healthy rather than extreme. One of the secrets to successful weight loss is flexibility rather than rigidity, remember.

Going back to your GI problems, it sounds like three possibilities here. One is that you find wheat to be a trigger food. It's a common one, there are lots of people who take one bite of bread and then can't stop eating. Staying off wheat and looking into low-carbing and general blood sugar control is the answer to that. The second possibility is that you have an actual intolerance or allergy to wheat or gluten, or even Coeliac diseas. The solution to that is to go back to your usual diet and change just one thing: gluten. If you change more than one thing at once, you won't be able to work out what is causing what. There is lots of advice around about eating a gluten-free diet, and I did it myself for a year not too long ago. The third possibility is a different gastro-intestinal issue, whether it's IBS or something more unusual. That's the point at which you go to your doctor and have a long and delightful conversation about what goes into and out of your digestive system. More than one of these could be occurring, which makes it more complicated and difficult to work out. I'd suggest combining the excellent resource that is 3FC with a good doctor, and hopefully you'll work it out sooner or later.

nelie
11-15-2011, 08:37 AM
With respect - please check the nutrition on fruits and vegtables. Do they have protein? Yes. Will eating a 1200 kcal diet of fruits and vegtables provide adequate protein? Not even close.

I'm not familiar with the juicing propoganda (from a company selling juicing machines no less) but I've read enough to know that if protein is inadequate muscle loss will be significant in a large caloric deficit. This will be compounded by the high sugar percentage of the intake which will increase insulin levels blunting fat oxidation thereby increasing the bodies need to utilize the sugar rather than store it thereby increasing muscle catabolization through the night.

In short - juicing diets devoid of protein are not what I would reccomend to anyone, ever.

This is just my opinion. I'm not trying to be unsupportive to the OP. I'm just hoping she doesn't follow this terribly misguided idea.

Again, I don't know her diet but the reboot your life diet isn't just juice and it is 15 days only. Sure, the guy from the movie did it for 60 days but he had a nutritionist working his plan and a doctor checking him. The RDA for protein is about 50g which the reboot your life actually exceeds. The way it does it is with a focus on veggies. Lots of leafy greens, etc. We aren't talking about drinking apple juice here. Again, it's not a juice only diet, it's a diet with fruit/vegetable juice.

Esofia
11-15-2011, 08:46 AM
Which sounds fairly sensible, but the OP is on a juice fast rather than than the Reboot diet.

ChickieChicks
11-15-2011, 08:54 AM
Personally I think this is a bad idea specifically because it isn't teaching you what you really need to learn - good eating habits.

The second reason I think this is a bad idea is that the lack of protein is going to mean a much greater loss of muscle than you would ordinarily lose while dieting.

The third reason this is a bad idea in my opinion is that if you're planning on downing 1200 calories of veggies and fruits that means that a huge number of your calories are coming from sugar. How is this going to help your carb addiction?

The fourth reason this is a bad idea in my opinion is that you are going to be very hungry. Dispite the fiber your liquid diet is going to do little to satiate you. So if you do manage to stick with the program you're setting yourself up for a big binge down the road.

I would urge you to reconsider. As long as you're doing something medically supervised I would instead suggest a form of a PSMF. Personally the one I would reccomend is "Rapid Fat Loss" by Lyle Mcdonald. It is all whole foods and you would actually be ingesting fewer calories thus losing weight faster and it suffers from none of the drawbacks I've outlined above.

If you have already decided - than I wish you the best of luck. Sincerely I do.

I love you...in a plutonic way. I really, really enjoy your posts. I do not have any magical answer myself, but I frequently worry about people on here going on diets that cannot be sustained. How does that help the problem of making bad food choices and simply consuming too much? :?:

nelie
11-15-2011, 09:16 AM
Which sounds fairly sensible, but the OP is on a juice fast rather than than the Reboot diet.

Yeah, I was just using it as a comparison point. It is possible to meet the RDA on a juice fast but it takes a lot of work and the guidance of a dietician.

allwayshungery
11-15-2011, 09:39 AM
Ive been struggling with my body for a long time. Iv struggld to know what to do. But i finally decided. Im going to be starting a fast for 40 days on pure veggies and fruit juices. Ive been reading online about how juice fasting has been useful in treating people with digestive issues. My major issue is that im addicted to bread and wheat and gluten and yet im very intolerant to it..it makes me sick sick sick..but i cant seem to stop..but...ive read up on the benefits and i got my juicer and im ready to go. Please keep in mind its for 40 days and then i embark on a diet of 75% veggies and 25% of meat and dairy..and gluten and wheat will be completely eliminated..i hope that this will help in dealing with my pregnant looking belly and ill feelings i have after eating.. Wish me luck.

Good Luck :carrot:

ARPerry87
11-15-2011, 12:20 PM
throughout the day including avocados..should total over 1200..though its a lot of veggies and fruits





But see, that's the problem. That's starvation calorie range. You'll lose weight, but your body will go into starvation mode, and the second you come off of the fast, you might gain most of it back and it will all be fat because you're body will be shocked into thinking that it's necessary since it's a time of famine.

I don't like those fast things. And that seems like an excessively long period. Please do this under doctor supervision. I know someone who eats like this on the regular, and although she is super skinny-model-she can get very weak very fast. Try to include SOME kind of protein. You need at least 120 grams of protein, a day, but you can get away with that much in two days. Protein is needed for sustained weight loss.

Esofia
11-15-2011, 12:29 PM
Erm, I respectfully disagree with bits of that while agreeing with the general idea. 1200 is not "starvation range", though it's a low calorie range and for someone of the OP's height it's definitely too low. "Starvation mode" is a myth from all I've heard, although eating a very low number of calories can create various problems. And while I too would be concerned about getting adequate protein on a juice fast, 120g is far, far higher than the minimum recommended by various reputable bodies. 50g protein is more like it for a minimum.

Something I've just remembered is that while I'm sure you can get 1200cal through juicing, you'd need to imbibe an incredible amount of juice to do it. You'd be juicing nonstop. I vaguely recall reading an article about a woman who took up juicing and found that she had to make a fresh portion of juice every hour, which meant preparing veg and cleaning the juicer took up a considerable portion of her day. Never mind my physical health, I think I'd go crazy doing that for a week, let alone forty days.

lucyford
11-15-2011, 01:03 PM
Port, I've seen your posts from the last year and I've seen you try a few different diet plans out. While it's good to see what works for you, I'm concerned that this plan not only lacks sustainability but it really is doing nothing to teach you to make good choices. Say you do lose weight on this plan. What are you going to do life long? Have you tried boring old calorie counting? It's not exciting but it is damn effective. You can eat what you want as long as you don't go over your daily limit and if you're like me, you'll make healthy choices just so you can have a little more to eat. Example, I'd rather have a salad, lean steak and a pile of veggies instead of fast food or dessert. Another concern I have is if you really are working with a doctor, why on Earth would they allow someone who is at risk for diabetes or even pre-diabetes to live off of juice and agave/honey for 40 days?? If your ticker is accurate I would start higher than 1200 cals and slowly work my way down. I understand what it is like to be addicted to carbs and such...I feel that I was myself. I never realized HOW much I was until I started taking cinnamon supplements and my sugar/carb cravings literally stopped. Maybe you could look into something like that for yourself.

ARPerry87
11-15-2011, 01:26 PM
Esofia, yeah, I've heard that the starvation thing was a bit of a myth, but my nutritionist told me to not go any lower than 1500 for someone of my age, height, and muscle index because it would cause severe crashes. I'm around 5'10 right now and if I went as low as 1200, even through healthy things like fruit and veg, I would suffer from it. But, I agree, it's different for different people.

My nutritionist also told me that an active person that does more than thirty minutes of working out in the 'hard' range where the heart rate gets up to and maintains 150+ that you need, at most, 120 g of protein, though it might be mg's, I can't remember since I haven't seen her in a month or so.

I just don't like the idea of the whole fasting on juice thing. You need things other than juice, and fruit, to hold a good weight and to have sustainable weight loss.

For context, I sometimes can't eat meat since I can't process protein, I have a kind of auto-immune disease that makes red meat the spawn of Satan sometimes, so it's like... why? Why would you give up meat? I love it but it hates me.

Porthardygurl
11-15-2011, 01:58 PM
Thank you for all your concerns...
My GP isnt keen on the idea but she knows that im stubborn so she said that she would supervise me.

I did look at the reboot website and sign up..REMEMBER..this is not a diet...im not doing this for longer than 40 days. After 40 days im switching over to a 75% raw food diet...i went on this to help my stomach recover from all the wheat and gluten. I also did it.. to help try and break my addiction to bread products. The primary reason for doing it is not to lose weight..its to help my stomach and digestive system. I am NOT living off of fruits.. I have lots of dark leafy greens im juicing..and yes it takes a lot out of your day..As far as hunger goes..its day 2 and i dont feel hungry like i did when i was ingesting bread..i find i can go a couple of hours without eating after drinking a juice...my stomach doesnt feel as bloated and i feel great so far.

sacha
11-15-2011, 02:00 PM
Porthardygurl, glad to see that your GP is willing to supervise if you have decided you are going to do it against her advice anyways. Is there a way she can refer you to a registered dietician? That would be very useful if you think that various food intolerances are causing you so many problems.

kaplods
11-15-2011, 02:35 PM
The metabolic-slowing effects of repeated dieting (especially very low-calorie or very low-protein diets) aren't myth, but "starvation mode" is a poor name for them, and the effects are generally poorly understood, with many misunderstandings and false assumptions being common.

Metabolism doesn't halt, it just slows down, and this effect is very variable. Not everyone experiences it, or to the same degree and the mechanisms aren't all fully understood (but some are).

The best understood is that of muscle loss. When you diet, you lose muscle as well as fat. If you're very sedentary you will lose more muscle than an active person. If your diet is low in protein, you will lose more muscle than a person eating adequate protein.

Muscle requires more energy (calories) to sustain than fat (which is why fat loss is what you want, not muscle loss).

This may explain "starvation mode" entirely (although there is evidence that other processes are involved, including immune and endocrine issues).


Some people say that if starvation mode existed, weight loss surgery wouldn't work. (Which is why starvation mode is a bad name for these metabolic declines - starvation isn't prevented, it's slowed down).

Evidence of that decline does exist though. Depending on the surgery, up to 60% of gastric bypass patients return to their presurgery weight or higher by going back to eating as they did presurgery. This should be physically impossible unless the person were to be eating dramatically more than they did pre-surgery, and the evidence is that this is not true. In fact, there's some evidence that the regainers aren't eating as much as they did pre-surgery, their metabolisms simply are slower (muscle loss may or may not be the cause).

The classic pattern of yoyo dieters is that each successive diet requires more calorie restriction, to yield smaller results. "Caloric adaptation" may be
a more accurate term than "starvation mode."

Whether this is only due to muscle loss is unclear, but there's some indication that this isn't true.

Recent research has found that calorie restriction (even mild calorie restriction) has a negative impact on the immune system. When you're eating less than your normal, you're more susceptible to illness. This isn't tragic - but it does mean that if you're dieting, you have to be a little more aware of personal hygiene, because you'll catch cold or flu more easily than if you were not dieting.

To me this is research makes me wonder whether my autoimmune disease is a result of a lifetime of chronic dieting. It also makes it seem likely that one of the ways the body deals with calorie restriction is by diverting energy (and remember energy is measured in calories) away from other body processes - and immunity may be the first system to face "budget cuts."

How much dieting or a particluar diet reduces metabolism (and even whether that reduction occurs) seems to vary from person to person. We do know some of the factors. Protein intake - the person's age and health status (many health issues reduce metabolism, especially endocrine disorders such as diabetes and insulin resistance), the person's dieting history (repeated dieting - especially yoyo and crash dieting).....


Crash diets are incredibly appealing, because they yield the impressive results we have been conditioned to believe we need. But that kind of weight loss is "addictive" and unsustainable. And it takes more and more extreme methods to recapture the same "high."

We say and truly believe that we only need a jump start, and that we'll be ok with slower losses on a more sensible diet in the future - but that's not the reality. Instead, most people get easily and quickly discouraged and disheartened with "sensible weight loss" and end up on the yoyo dieting rollercoaster, often for their whole lives.

I've been on that rollercoaster for more than 30 years, and getting off wasn't easy. Learning to be ok with sensible and gradual changes (and therefore sensible and gradual results) was extremely difficult. I still "want" the incredible rush of rapid weight loss, but after more than 3 decades of crash dieting, I can't seem to experience rapid weight loss even on starvation calories. My metabolism is clearly impaired (and I suspect chronic dieting played a substantial role).

This is a bit off subject, but it's important, because there's a great deal of evidence that crash dieting, and yoyo dieting is not healthy, and may even make future weight loss attempts more difficult. As such it's extremely important to avoid the yoyo cycle, and vital to that is finding a way of eating that is sustainable.

We spend far too much time and effort to get the weight off fast, and almost no attention is paid to finding a way of eating that is sustainable for a lifetime. We decide that we'll worry about that when we get all the weight off - but most of us never get to that point, because we get discouraged when the results aren't what we expect (instead of becoming ok with slow, gradual weight loss we quit when the weight loss slows, because loss seems hopeless).

Sustainable, permanent changes are key - and while we all "know that" (or think we do) that's not how most of us go about weight loss. We've been conditioned to think of weight loss in terms of speed, and decide that we'll try to find a way to do sustainable later. Maybe if sustainability were our FIRST CHOICE, and not our last, the weight loss success statistics wouldn't be so dismal.

If I could make one change in my life, it would be to have never gone on a single rapid, crash or "detox" diet. If only from the very beginning, I had focused on making "forever changes" and not worrying so much about the numbers on the scale.

kaplods
11-15-2011, 02:55 PM
Thank you for all your concerns...
My GP isnt keen on the idea but she knows that im stubborn so she said that she would supervise me.

I did look at the reboot website and sign up..REMEMBER..this is not a diet...im not doing this for longer than 40 days. After 40 days im switching over to a 75% raw food diet...i went on this to help my stomach recover from all the wheat and gluten. I also did it.. to help try and break my addiction to bread products. The primary reason for doing it is not to lose weight..its to help my stomach and digestive system. I am NOT living off of fruits.. I have lots of dark leafy greens im juicing..and yes it takes a lot out of your day..As far as hunger goes..its day 2 and i dont feel hungry like i did when i was ingesting bread..i find i can go a couple of hours without eating after drinking a juice...my stomach doesnt feel as bloated and i feel great so far.


A lot can happen in 40 days. If you were doing this for 3 days, 7 days, or even 10, I wouldn't be as concerned. That your doctor isn't keen on the idea should tell you something, especially since doctors don't get a lot of education on nutrition (in fact, almost none). If your doctor knows it's a bad idea - it's a VERY BAD idea.

Please consult a dietitian.

I can tell you from experience that all fasts "feel great" because they do damage that results in endorphins being released and endorphins are the body's natural painkillers - the result is euphoria. You can't trust "feeling great" in the short term. Now the damage isn't usually severe, if the fast is short - but 40 days is not short. Not on a diet of essentially 100% of calories coming from sugar.

You're also not going to wean yourself off carbohydrates by embarking on a 100% carbohydrate diet (and yes even for 40 days, this is a diet, and virtually by definition a crash diet).

I truly wish I could give you my memories and my experience. I've been on juice and vegetable fasts and crash diets of all sorts. I've been on virtually every type of diet in existence. I also have all the digestive problems with carbs and wheat that you mention, and fruit and vegetable juice fast was not the solution.

Fasts did more damage to me than all other types of diets combined (and I never went on a 40 day fast).

By taking the fiber out of the fruits and vegetables, you will feel some temporary relief from digestive issues - but they will return full force (or worse) when you reintroduce solid foods.

By embarking on 100% carbohydrate diet, you will not be less dependent on carbs, you will become more dependent on them. The blood sugar results are going to possibly be dangerous (at least consider getting a blood sugar testing unit, to test for and be aware of problems. If your blood sugar significantly exceeds 100 frequently contact your doctor with this information immediately).

Nutritionally juice is essentially Kool-Aid with some antioxidants thrown in. The real nutrients go into the trash.

Unfortunately, since you're not listening to your doctor, or to any of us who have shared the wealth of our personal knowledge and experience with these symtoms and these diets, you're going to do what you want.

I can only hope that your stubborness doesn't cost you even a fraction of what mine cost me.

MariaMaria
11-15-2011, 03:31 PM
What does your diabetes caregiver (nurse? doctor? nutritionist?) think about this juicing plan? I'm familiar with T1 and not T2, but living on juice is very unlike how the T1s I know eat.

jayohwhy
11-15-2011, 03:34 PM
All of this sounds like an excuse for a crash diet. Drinking just juice for 40 days is a crash diet and i echo the idea that this will not teach you good health.

Also, I think no one, short of Jesus or a hollywood starlet/model could stand to deprive themselves of food for that many days.

I wonder what your poop will look like.

JohnP
11-15-2011, 04:50 PM
Anyone considering this should read Kaplod's posts on this thread VERY carefully.

FassGal
11-15-2011, 05:44 PM
You see why I don't post exactly what I do on here?! A lot of people who don't understand what you're doing will just use the opportunity to speak against your plans, while they are struggling to follow their own plans! I applaud your efforts at juice fasting, and I sincerely wish you well. You are getting calories and you are consuming real foods... so I don't understand what everyone else's problem is with your TEMPORARY juice fast! Geez. The human body doesn't need as many calories as the AMA says we need anyway. If it were true, then folks all over the world who do not follow the AMA's guidelines would have been dead a looong time ago. Also, your plan has the AMA's recommended calorie limits.... SMH. I just don't understand people on this forum at times. But back to you - Do what makes you happy! I see nothing wrong with your plan to juice fast and I hope you succeed at doing this for 40 days.

gagalu
11-15-2011, 05:52 PM
I wonder what your poop will look like.

lmao

Blueberries
11-15-2011, 06:01 PM
You see why I don't post exactly what I do on here?! A lot of people who don't understand what you're doing will just use the opportunity to speak against your plans, while they are struggling to follow their own plans! I applaud your efforts at juice fasting, and I sincerely wish you well. You are getting calories and you are consuming real foods... so I don't understand what everyone else's problem is with your TEMPORARY juice fast! Geez. The human body doesn't need as many calories as the AMA says we need anyway. If it were true, then folks all over the world who do not follow the AMA's guidelines would have been dead a looong time ago. Also, your plan has the AMA's recommended calorie limits.... SMH. I just don't understand people on this forum at times. But back to you - Do what makes you happy! I see nothing wrong with your plan to juice fast and I hope you succeed at doing this for 40 days.

So rather than be concerned for her health, we should just smile and nod? That's not the kind of support I would want if I were about to embark on something that might be dangerous. I hope people would tell me!

Elliemar
11-15-2011, 06:43 PM
On the face of it your plan sounds fine - it's the length of time you want to do it for that seems too much to me. I've been on every fad diet going over the years and whilst some worked short-term, I always felt awful b y the end and always put the weight (and then some) back on.

Now, finally, I'm doing what I should have done all along. Dealing with the real issues like my poor food choices I've completely transformed my cooking and the total lack of exercise I used to get. I absolutely love food (and carbs which hate me) and can't imagine no solids for a week, never mind 40 days. I know I'm new here but everyone (and in particular JohnP and kaplods) speak a lot of sense. I sincerely hope it goes well for you, but please consider doing this for a lot less than 40 days.

sacha
11-15-2011, 06:56 PM
You see why I don't post exactly what I do on here?! A lot of people who don't understand what you're doing will just use the opportunity to speak against your plans, while they are struggling to follow their own plans! I applaud your efforts at juice fasting, and I sincerely wish you well. You are getting calories and you are consuming real foods... so I don't understand what everyone else's problem is with your TEMPORARY juice fast! Geez. The human body doesn't need as many calories as the AMA says we need anyway. If it were true, then folks all over the world who do not follow the AMA's guidelines would have been dead a looong time ago. Also, your plan has the AMA's recommended calorie limits.... SMH. I just don't understand people on this forum at times. But back to you - Do what makes you happy! I see nothing wrong with your plan to juice fast and I hope you succeed at doing this for 40 days.

I do agree that some people have been rather rude (ie. "poop" comment). The OP has struggled and needs constructive support.

I'm not struggling - I have maintained, as my signature says, for quite a long time and remember the OP's posts well - she bounces from plan to plan, always disatisfied, never able to find one that she wants to stick to. Whether that is the plan itself or her willingness to stick to it, I don't know. I think she would be much better invested in a counselor to help her with food issues and a registered dietician so that she can actually approach this possible wheat issue in a logical manner.

If she truly believes that carbohydrates are causing her so much grief, I don't see how a 40 day juice diet will find the root of the problem. An experienced/knowledgeable dietician and doctor can help - however, she has already gone against medical advice and chosen an arbitrary bible reference/juice program instead.

I wish the OP the best of luck but people here are quite concerned for her health. She has a baby at home to care and it worries me that she seems to not really address the root of her issues, instead bouncing from fad to fad.

FassGal
11-15-2011, 07:19 PM
Porthardy, see what I mean?!:hug: Folks are replying to my comment and it's not even my thread! LOL! :lol3: Moreover, they're making assumptions for which there's no basis! They fail to realize that you posted this thread in a support forum to get support for you, porthardy. This has nothing to do with me, why are they trying to explain/argue with me?! Their responses make me laugh. :rofl: You were so brave to post your goal on here. :cp: Forget the naysayers who pretend to be concerned about the health of a complete stranger (you) who's consuming the healthiest, most nutrient dense foods in liquid form and continue to pursue your goal of a 40-day juice fast. You know what? Use the negative comments as fuel to prove the naysayers wrong. You can come back on here and say "Look! I did it. I'm healthier, slimmer, etc." and provide blood & guts numbers (you know, blood pressure, cholesterol, weight) before and after your juice fast. You'll lead the way for others on here. Also, if you're comfortable with it, provide pics too.

I look forward to hearing about your success. Please update us on your progress, the good and bad. Good Luck! :goodluck:

sacha
11-15-2011, 07:43 PM
Porthardy, see what I mean?!:hug: Folks are replying to my comment and it's not even my thread! LOL! :lol3: Moreover, they're making assumptions for which there's no basis!

You do realize that people respond with comments on forums right? Check your assumptions at the door - I am not struggling with my plan, I have been maintaining for 8 years. Her own doctor has advised against this plan, is it really supportive to tell her to go for it regardless of how it conflicts with her own health?

princessgina00
11-15-2011, 08:36 PM
Porthardy, see what I mean?!:hug: Folks are replying to my comment and it's not even my thread! LOL! :lol3: Moreover, they're making assumptions for which there's no basis! They fail to realize that you posted this thread in a support forum to get support for you, porthardy. This has nothing to do with me, why are they trying to explain/argue with me?! Their responses make me laugh. :rofl: You were so brave to post your goal on here. :cp: Forget the naysayers who pretend to be concerned about the health of a complete stranger (you) who's consuming the healthiest, most nutrient dense foods in liquid form and continue to pursue your goal of a 40-day juice fast. You know what? Use the negative comments as fuel to prove the naysayers wrong. You can come back on here and say "Look! I did it. I'm healthier, slimmer, etc." and provide blood & guts numbers (you know, blood pressure, cholesterol, weight) before and after your juice fast. You'll lead the way for others on here. Also, if you're comfortable with it, provide pics too.

I look forward to hearing about your success. Please update us on your progress, the good and bad. Good Luck! :goodluck:

Ummm....yeah.

Like a previous poster said, just because this is a support thread, does not mean posters are supposed to support every crazy thing someone wants to do. If Porthardy wanted to cut off her legs or remove some organs to lose weight, would you also support that decision? And, also, how can we support someone without caring about them or their situation? If we don't support other posters for their health (future and present), then what do we support them on, their choice in footwear?

This website has produced tons of successful maintainers who have gathered support and guidance from fellow 3FCers. Yet, I doubt that any of the successful maintainers ever reached their weight loss goals by undertaking such a drastic measure as a fast. No one doubts that Porthardy will lose weight on this fast, if she sticks to it. But I believe most, if not all, of us doubt that she will be able to maintain such weight loss over the long term. 3FC is not only a place for support, but it is a place for guidance and the collective wisdom of other "dieters." So, Porthardy needs to truly listen to this wisdom and heed the advice of other posters. Nothing Porthardy has or intends to do regarding weight loss has not been done before by other 3FCers. So, when most of the posters on this thread (and the OP's doctor, for goodness sakes) say that this juice fast is a bad idea, then it's a very BAD IDEA. We're trying to prevent heartache and hurt for Porthardy because, yes, we care about her health and well-being (imagine that).

nelie
11-15-2011, 09:05 PM
So rather than be concerned for her health, we should just smile and nod? That's not the kind of support I would want if I were about to embark on something that might be dangerous. I hope people would tell me!

Honestly, although a doctor probably isn't the best person to turn to for nutrition, a doctor is more suited to deal with health issues of individuals that are in their care. I agree with others that have said the OP should also seek advice from a registered dietician as well as the GP.

kaplods
11-15-2011, 10:17 PM
I've put more effort into researching weight loss and nutrition than I have into my degrees in psychology, but I'm not asking OP to believe anything I've said, or to trust that I know what I'm talking about

I'm asking her to seek help from someone who does know what he or she is talking about - and has the education, professional experience, and the professional credentials to prove it - a registered dietitian, or a certified diabetes educator (if OP is insulin resistant or diabetic).

I've destroyed my body through decades of making many of the choices that I've seen OP make over the past several months, and I'd spare anyone that pain if I could.

I don't expect anyone to take my word on that, because no one here can know or verify the quality, depth or breadth of my knowledge on the subject. And although I've spent a great deal of time studying weight loss - it's all been as a lay person. I wouldn't suggest that anyone follow my advice - I'd only suggest that they get help from people who do know the subject, and can prove it.

Unfortunately dietitian visits aren't always covered by insurance, but diabetic educators often are - if you've got a diagnosis of diabetes, insulin resistance, or some other endocrine disorders such as PCOS. Also, many communities have free and low-cost programs through the health department.

I've seen and experienced first hand what a lifetime of crash and unbalanced dieting can do to the body - and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

I'm just asking the OP to do what I finally learned to do - seek help from those who do know the subject well - her health care team, including her doctor and also ideally a dietitian and/or diabetes educator if she has any endocrine issues such as PCOS, insulin resistance, or diabetes.

If she happens to be on blood-sugar impacting medications such as metformin, or any other diabetic medications, this is even more vital.

But I don't expect her to take my word for it - I expect her to consult the people who have the professional expertise - and not just ask for their advice, but consider following it. Medical supervision really doesn't do you much good, if you're ignoring the medical advice you're being given.

Violet73
11-15-2011, 11:07 PM
40 days is too long to juice. I have a gluten intolerance and the best way to heal from that and to stop the cravings for gluten is to stop eating gluten. You may also have a candida problem in your gut and by consuming lots of fruits you are only making that worse and thus your cravings will continue or even be worse. There is a candida test online, search it out and take the test. Sugar, fruit, breads, pasta, etc feeds candida and thus you crave them.

Bottom line, if it's a gluten problem, it's best to just remove gluten, sugars, fruits for a couple of weeks and see how you do. You can eat whole foods while doing this such as meats and veggies.

Porthardygurl
11-16-2011, 06:07 AM
For all those who thought i was crazy to do it: Its the end of day 2 and ive decided to quit. I appreciate everyone's input. My reasoning for quitting is simple: i felt worse instead of better: i felt foggy, tired, dizzy and depressed.
Im thankful its only been two days, i would hate to see what i would have looked like after 40 days. I will be returning to a PSMF type eating plan since it worked well and made me feel better. I will continue to omit all gluten and wheat as i feel better now that its out of my diet.

Thank you for your support.
Thank you to Fassgal.. i appreciate you standing up for me and being supportive.
Thanks to Kaplods and John who threw in lots of useful information..
Thanks to everyone else, im glad to see their are so many who care about the lives of complete strangers whom they have never met.

indiblue
11-16-2011, 06:19 AM
:hug:

I don't know enough to weigh in on juice fasts, so I didn't. But I do want to chime in now and say good for you for listening to your body.

We're all here to support you so good luck... I think we're all trying to figure all this out step by step :)