General chatter - Sugar: The bitter truth




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EagleRiverDee
09-13-2011, 07:48 PM
This may have been posted on this forum before, but I just ran across it somewhere else and holy cow is it enlightening. It surely explains why calorie cutting isn't always enough and why low fat foods cause weight gain, among other things. If I were a teacher, I'd make this required viewing in Health Class, for certain!

It's a LONG video but it is so enlightening and the doctor doing the presenting does a great job of keeping it simple.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM


Rainbowgirl
09-14-2011, 02:10 AM
I'm going to watch this when I get home because I am all for better awareness about sugar and where it is, how much of it we overeat, etc.

The worst thing I found myself? Sugar AND icing sugar (confetioner's sugar) in, of all things, PEANUT BUTTER!

Sugar is bad enough, but icing sugar on top of it?!?

EagleRiverDee
09-14-2011, 01:43 PM
Let me know what you think. Honestly, by the time I got done watching that video, I felt like I had been duped by the FDA and the Food Pyramid and all the Low-Fat crap being pushed on us every day. The guy explains the biochemical process on how fructose in particular is as bad for your body as alcohol and how it gets stored as fat and causes diabetes, obesity, hypertension, gout, liver problems, etc. He also explained why a sugar calorie is actually NOT the same as a calorie from a whole food and shows the direct correlation of weight gain in America and the advent of high fructose corn syrup in our processed foods.

And I agree- sugar AND icing sugar in peanut butter? I'm definitely going to be checking my labels better from now on!


ade903
09-14-2011, 01:51 PM
I felt like I had been duped by the FDA and the Food Pyramid and all the Low-Fat crap being pushed on us every day.

This is exactly how I felt after reading up on veganism. I felt like such a fool believing the government protects us. Ha. Will look at this at home, too. Thanks!

Suzanne 3FC
09-14-2011, 02:06 PM
Thanks, I'm going to bookmark that for later! The first 5 minutes are very interesting.

I'm not sure if he's going in the same direction (probably is) but I'm a big fan of the World Health Organization (WHO) study on sugar that was released a few years ago. They linked increased sugar consumption to major diseases around the world. They recommended the entire world limit sugar consumption to no more than 10% of our daily calories. This is for added sugar, which does not include the normal consumption of fruits or the sugar that naturally occurs in dairy and other foods. Just added sugar (this also includes when other items such as fruit juice are added for additional sweetening effect on foods). The sugar and soft drink industries pitched a huge fit, insisting that we should include at least 25% of our daily calories from added sugar. :eek:

Sadly, sugar shows up in just about everything in the form of high fructose corn syrup. It's not just a sweetener, but is also used in savory items because it helps extend shelf life, and is more profitable for manufacturers. Any food that contains HFCS is lower in quality and cheaper for them to produce.

I'm also not a fan of artificial sweeteners, so I retrained my sweet tooth.

Lovely
09-14-2011, 02:12 PM
The sugar and soft drink industries pitched a huge fit, insisting that we should include at least 25% of our daily calories from added sugar. :eek:

...What.

I'm not even a person who delves too far into sugar or anything, but a QUARTER of my daily food intake coming from ADDED SUGAR?! I don't even know what to say!

Thank goodness I switched to water a long time ago and don't give my $$$ to the soda industries! I can only imagine what I'd look like if I followed that diet advice.

runningfromfat
09-14-2011, 02:19 PM
I'll have to watch this when I have some time.

I'm basically on team sugar=evil. I know there are people who can handle it but it's seriously like a drug to me. Strangely enough, I do well with natural sweeteners and can control myself there, more or less, but sugar just makes me :crazy: .

Once I gave up sugar cold turkey I was truly shocked how much sugar there is out there and in what a wide variety of products they put it in! It was also surprising how sensitive I was to it once I did include some of it back into my life. Whenever I bake I now always cut the sweetener in half in recipes and just can't stand things that are two sweet. Really, the amount that they put in food is just insane!

EagleRiverDee
09-14-2011, 02:20 PM
The sugar and soft drink industries pitched a huge fit, insisting that we should include at least 25% of our daily calories from added sugar. :eek:


He does go over all the diseases sugar is causing. And he also discusses what he calls the "Coca-Cola Conspiracy" and says the soft drink makers are 100% aware of how addictive sugar is. They design their drinks with a huge sodium content and caffeine content (which dehydrate) and make it palatable by adding tons of sugar. He showed how the size has increased from the original 6.5oz bottle to a 10oz, to a 20oz, to a 44oz big gulp, to a 60oz BUCKET.

The other very SCARY thing was he showed how fructose in particular fools the body. One, our bodies don't fully recognize it as sugar and so while it does cause our blood sugar to go up, our bodies don't respond by secreting insulin. Two, it messes up our hunger signals because fructose causes our bodies to not produce leptin (the hormone that tells us we're full) and tells us to overproduce ghrelin (the hormone that tells us we're hungry). They did study after study and people that eat or drinks sweetened with fructose or HFCS end up eating MORE because of it.

theCandEs
09-14-2011, 02:25 PM
I'll have to come back and watch this later. Thanks!

ade903
09-14-2011, 02:49 PM
The sugar and soft drink industries pitched a huge fit, insisting that we should include at least 25% of our daily calories from added sugar. :eek:

So I understand why they want us to believe we need that much (more profit for them), but how on earth did they attempt to justify or back that up? That is ridiculous!

christine123
09-14-2011, 03:11 PM
Thanks, I'm going to bookmark that for later! The first 5 minutes are very interesting.

I'm not sure if he's going in the same direction (probably is) but I'm a big fan of the World Health Organization (WHO) study on sugar that was released a few years ago. They linked increased sugar consumption to major diseases around the world. They recommended the entire world limit sugar consumption to no more than 10% of our daily calories. This is for added sugar, which does not include the normal consumption of fruits or the sugar that naturally occurs in dairy and other foods. Just added sugar (this also includes when other items such as fruit juice are added for additional sweetening effect on foods). The sugar and soft drink industries pitched a huge fit, insisting that we should include at least 25% of our daily calories from added sugar. :eek:

Sadly, sugar shows up in just about everything in the form of high fructose corn syrup. It's not just a sweetener, but is also used in savory items because it helps extend shelf life, and is more profitable for manufacturers. Any food that contains HFCS is lower in quality and cheaper for them to produce.

I'm also not a fan of artificial sweeteners, so I retrained my sweet tooth.

He basically addressed all of this. He also discussed the differences between glucose (from pasta and potatoes) and fructose (from sugar, HFCS) and how the sugar is the toxin/poison, NOT the glucose. Same with lactose found in milk, which is safe and treated differently in the body than the fructose. He discussed that fruit has fructose but it's in limited amounts and coupled with fiber so it does not have the same effect on the body. It was fascinating, scary, and mortifying all at the same time. He says not all calories are treated the same in the body, which to some degree, I had already known. I could always eat higher calories of fruits and veggies and still lose.

Also, he discussed that fiber has been PURPOSELY REMOVED from many of our foods to increase shelf life to export overseas. He said even sugarcane, from where sugar is extracted before being refined, has quite a bit of fiber to balance it out. But manufacturers remove it.

The fact that the garbage is so cheap to produce and that this all stemmed from money interests was even more horrifying. I would be lying to myself to say I'll cut out sugar altogether permanently but it certainly made me stop and think and be more conscious of what I am eating.

christine123
09-14-2011, 03:15 PM
This may have been posted on this forum before, but I just ran across it somewhere else and holy cow is it enlightening. It surely explains why calorie cutting isn't always enough and why low fat foods cause weight gain, among other things. If I were a teacher, I'd make this required viewing in Health Class, for certain!

It's a LONG video but it is so enlightening and the doctor doing the presenting does a great job of keeping it simple.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

Yes. It's not the fats, it's the sugars that are making us fat! That's why we are blowing up and low-fat diets are hard and don't work. Also so much of the fat in low-fat food is replaced with sugar to make it palatable. It's eye-opening. Thanks so much for posting.

EagleRiverDee
09-14-2011, 03:28 PM
Also, he discussed that fiber has been PURPOSELY REMOVED from many of our foods to increase shelf life to export overseas. He said even sugarcane, from where sugar is extracted before being refined, has quite a bit of fiber to balance it out. But manufacturers remove it.

Yes, and I found it fascinating that he calls fiber a macronutrient that is largely missing from the American diet. We all hear we need fiber but he's talking about 150-300 grams a day and saying it's necessary.

I'm going to have to re-watch his entire lecture, because it made more sense to me than a lot of the gobbledey-gook the gov't has been throwing at us.

Did you see the part about the obesity epidemic in BABIES (who clearly are not making their own food decisions) and how it's linked to the amount of sugar in the baby formula??? OMG. A serving of formula has as much sugar in it as a soda pop!

FitGirlyGirl
09-14-2011, 05:18 PM
I actually almost cried when he was talking about baby formula. It's evil, it really is.

christine123
09-14-2011, 07:25 PM
Yes, and I found it fascinating that he calls fiber a macronutrient that is largely missing from the American diet. We all hear we need fiber but he's talking about 150-300 grams a day and saying it's necessary.

I'm going to have to re-watch his entire lecture, because it made more sense to me than a lot of the gobbledey-gook the gov't has been throwing at us.

Did you see the part about the obesity epidemic in BABIES (who clearly are not making their own food decisions) and how it's linked to the amount of sugar in the baby formula??? OMG. A serving of formula has as much sugar in it as a soda pop!

I was BEYOND mortified!!!! I could not believe babies are ingesting this type of garbage! I struggle everyday with the sugar issues and hate that I am such a junkie and then you have these companies creating junkies at 6 months old??? It's so darn sad, I can't stand it! And I didn't even think about the pregnant moms ingesting the sugars and passing it on. It's no wonder what's happening to kids. The taste buds and neuropathways that control reward and pleasure sensors are all in the early stages of life at this age. This is criminal because when you hardwire a baby this early in life, it's very hard (and some would say impossible) to reverse later on.

christine123
09-14-2011, 07:27 PM
the gobbledey-gook the gov't has been throwing at us.



:rofl:
I need to use that word more often!

runningfromfat
09-14-2011, 09:02 PM
I just made it through the whole thing and, wow, it was basically someone discussing the science behind why what I've being doing works. ;)

I really have found that my hunger decreased once I cut out sugar. I also get less headaches, have more energy, etc. I know some people are shocked because he calls sugar a poison but I have to agree with him. I was and IS a poison for me.

One thing I would've loved to hear from him was what he does use. In another interview I found of him, his daughter is there and she mentions that on the weekends they do have ice cream or chocolate sometimes so I really wonder what kind of sweetener he's using? I'd love to know.

EagleRiverDee
09-14-2011, 09:44 PM
I just made it through the whole thing and, wow, it was basically someone discussing the science behind why what I've being doing works. ;)

And for me, it was explaining why what I was doing wasn't working! I don't drink soda or eat sugary desserts but I wasn't checking my processed foods for HFCS either. I was just doing the calories in vs. calories out. But last year I lost 30 lbs on a "anti-inflammatory diet" that happens to cut ALL processed foods. Now I know at least in part why that worked but regular calorie counting hasn't.

I wonder how many people who have been classified as "food addicts" actually are "sugar addicts"? I wonder how it would impact the Nation if everyone saw that video? I bet a lot of people would make some real changes, and I think that the food producers would have to start cleaning up what they put in the foods if they still wanted to sell it here.

I wonder how many mothers would feed formula if they knew it was the equivalent of a baby milkshake, or how many pregnant women would drink soda if they knew they were setting their unborn children up for a lifetime of sugar cravings and the associated health problems?

FitGirlyGirl
09-15-2011, 02:21 PM
This caused me to check even our cats' food. The brands we have don't have sugar (though they do have things the kitties don't need).

sacha
09-15-2011, 02:34 PM
My son had severe acid reflux disease as an infant (he still has flare-ups at 15 months) and the only formula he could tolerate was Enfamil Soy, which the #1 ingredient was corn syrup solids. It still kills me that it was the only food that would stay down in his stomach (and it still came up a lot, he vomited all my breast milk too).

christine123
09-15-2011, 02:41 PM
his daughter is there and she mentions that on the weekends they do have ice cream or chocolate sometimes so I really wonder what kind of sweetener he's using? I'd love to know.

I think he mentioned something about the amount being the real issue. But I don't fully recall. Do you eat anything with sugar in it or have you cut it all out? I wish I was ready to do that. I can't imagine not having a slice of birthday cake ever again or my mom's famous baklava. She's deceased and my sister makes it 2 times a year.

runningfromfat
09-15-2011, 03:05 PM
I think he mentioned something about the amount being the real issue. But I don't fully recall. Do you eat anything with sugar in it or have you cut it all out? I wish I was ready to do that. I can't imagine not having a slice of birthday cake ever again or my mom's famous baklava. She's deceased and my sister makes it 2 times a year.

I cut out all sugar/artificial sweeteners but I did use natural sweeteners for baking on occasion for about 6 months (I can count on one hand the number of times I ate sugar during that period). Then we moved abroad and it took some adjusting for me to figure out new ways to cook. However, I'm basically working on going back to that. I'm seeing a nutritionist so her suggestion was that I could have one chocolate bar per week. Also, I should underneath NO circumstances ever buy chocolate/sugar of any sort and keep it in the house (I really can't control myself) so that I just buy a single serving bar (but buy a fancy brand so I feel it's worth it).

I do cook with natural sweeteners so it's pretty easy to make birthday cake and whatnot, I actually prefer the taste over sugar and I've gotten so I don't like things too sweet. I've also found simple desserts like combining cottage cheese+an apple+cinnamon really do satisfy my sweet tooth now (although not at the beginning!!!).

Rana
09-15-2011, 03:51 PM
runningfromfat.... what natural sweetners are you using?

My family uses apple juice or rice syrup, in some instances, maple syrup (but very little).

becckii
09-15-2011, 03:51 PM
thank you so so much for posting that link. it makes so much sense and i will never look at food in the same way again

runningfromfat
09-15-2011, 03:59 PM
runningfromfat.... what natural sweetners are you using?

My family uses apple juice or rice syrup, in some instances, maple syrup (but very little).

I use honey/maple syrup/blue agave. Locally, honey is the best option because it's by far the cheapest but it's the worst for me in terms of cravings afterwards. I can find maple syrup locally but it's roughly 5x the price so I only get it from abroad and I haven't found blue agave at all locally (DH brought back a bunch the last time he went to the US).

From experimenting I've found blue agave works the best when it comes to baking non-chocolate stuff (it's really good in cheesecake, for instance). I like maple syrup the best with chocolate stuff and honey works the best with fruit (apple pie, for instance, but I'm sure maple syrup would work just fine here too). I always cut the amount of sweetener in half at the very least.

murphmitch
09-16-2011, 09:22 PM
Another great resource is "Sugar Nation: The Hidden Truth Behind America's Deadliest Habit and the Simple Way to Beat It" by Jeff O'Connell. Just finished reading it and loved it. It really paints the American Diabetes Association (ADA) in a bad light for not promoting a healthier diet (less carbohydrate) in their recommended diet. Also stressed how many people are "skinny diabetics" & don't know it. Very good read!

http://www.amazon.com/Sugar-Nation-Hidden-Americas-Deadliest/dp/1401323448

EagleRiverDee
09-16-2011, 09:40 PM
Anne-

Thanks! I will check that out!

tuende
09-17-2011, 12:58 PM
Thanks for posting that! I pushed play and was totally hooked! An hour and a half later and I thought my clock was wrong, I couldn't believe I had been sitting there for that long!

I thought it was so interesting how he was comparing the way our bodies process alcohol to the way we process fructose. I knew fructose was bad because it was only processed by the liver and more calories get stored that way, but I never knew that it was actually poisoning us in the process!

Hearing about the economics behind all of the policy surrounding this stuff always makes me so mad. We're being misled and told this stuff is safe for us and our kids to eat because it's helping a few people make tons and tons of money selling cheap, addictive garbage that never spoils. I had quite a few stick-it-to-the-man moments watching that :).

Serval87
09-18-2011, 09:36 PM
That was eye-opening to say the least. This is going to sound stupid, but he mentioned that fiber is taken out of foods in order to preserve shelf life and freeze, so does that mean frozen veggies and fruit loses a lot if not all of their fiber, because that's pretty much all I buy.

runningfromfat
09-18-2011, 09:58 PM
That was eye-opening to say the least. This is going to sound stupid, but he mentioned that fiber is taken out of foods in order to preserve shelf life and freeze, so does that mean frozen veggies and fruit loses a lot if not all of their fiber, because that's pretty much all I buy.

I found this here: http://www.everydayhealth.com/specialreport/heart-health/fiber-basics.aspx

When it comes to fruits and vegetables, fresh, frozen, and canned all contain the same amounts of fiber. When choosing frozen or canned products, the healthiest choices are brands that are low in sodium, sugar, and other additives. Fruits and vegetables prepared with the edible skin on contain more fiber than peeled ones. Fruit and vegetable juices contain little or no fiber, so opt for a whole carrot or an orange, for example, over juice.

runningfromfat
09-18-2011, 10:08 PM
I wonder how many people who have been classified as "food addicts" actually are "sugar addicts"? I wonder how it would impact the Nation if everyone saw that video? I bet a lot of people would make some real changes, and I think that the food producers would have to start cleaning up what they put in the foods if they still wanted to sell it here.

I would guess a lot. Sugar is very addictive and it really sneaks up with you over time. You start with a chocolate bar a week, then it turns to once a day, then a bigger one once a day etc. Looking back at college, it really shocks me how much I ate (but I was still in the healthy range because I was just so active). However, many (actually most) of my friends at the same way.

I do wonder if it would change people. I'm sure some would feel guilt/shame at the very least for eating too much sugar but to change one's mindset it really takes a lot. It took me a long time to start fixing my weight problem even though I knew how bad sugar and, well, all the junk I was eating was for me. :(


I wonder how many mothers would feed formula if they knew it was the equivalent of a baby milkshake, or how many pregnant women would drink soda if they knew they were setting their unborn children up for a lifetime of sugar cravings and the associated health problems?

The formula thing is a much more complicated issue. There are a lot of barriers to breastfeeding that affect moms from before they even give birth. I could write a huge, long post on this but I'll spare you the long story and tell you that both society and hospitals need to provide MUCH more support for new moms. Maternity leaves should be longer, pumps should be cheaper (or better yet covered by insurance!), hospitals should be required to have at least one certified lactation consultant on staff, etc. Add to this that many new moms don't have friends/relatives that nursed themselves so they can't even go to their friends/family for support.

I know many moms who would've loved to nursed but didn't have any one locally to help with latching problems etc and eventually gave up. Oh, and don't even get me started with the number of formula samples that are sent to you the second you even start buying maternity clothes....

Rainbowgirl
09-18-2011, 10:46 PM
On the breastfeeding issue, some moms just don't produce enough milk. My mom was like that when she had me - I was more or less starving for 6 months (and had colic) because I wasn't getting enough to eat. I was an ok weight, so neither her or her doctor thought anything was out of the normal apart from colic.

When she had my sister, she had about 3 times the amount of milk she had with me, to the point it was almost too much.

I think she did put me on formula, but not for long. I'd have to ask her.

Serval87
09-19-2011, 12:04 AM
Thanks, runningfromfat, I'm glad to know that. I buy the cheapest frozen veggies that are just veggies, nothing else. I recently got a chest freezer and have been stocking up for making lots of soup when it starts to get cold. :)

Rainbowgirl
09-19-2011, 02:10 AM
I finally finished watching this (at work no less, oops) and I have to say:

Wow:fr:

My mind is officially blown. I knew HFCS was bad for you - I just didn't know HOW bad. How all those Cokes I've drank.. I may as well been having beer.

It's really, really given me some thought into what I eat, and how I am going to look more carefully at it.

Fructose is officially off my list as a 'common occurence' food and will now be treated like alcohol: seldom indulgence.

Brooke Rene
09-19-2011, 03:57 AM
It makes sense to me. I am diabetic and used to get horrible sugar cravings. I have been doing the South Beach Diet, which is no sugar, limited complex carbs, and limited fruit too. You eat certain foods to keep your insulin levels down but you loose weight and it's working. I don't think it's just the sugar though. I think it's the sugar, as well as all the fast food and processed food that is making America and the whole Nation obese. We all have to start changing for good. Eat whole foods, cook at home, feed our kids better. It starts with small changes. :)

Serval87
09-20-2011, 11:56 AM
The sad thing is, every time I try to cut sugar or processed junk out completely, I get the most intense cravings and usually end up binging. :( It's just hard to say no to those cravings, and I don't have a lot of things to distract me from eating (not to mention eating those types of foods is one of the only things that actually make me feel good).

EagleRiverDee
09-20-2011, 01:49 PM
The sad thing is, every time I try to cut sugar or processed junk out completely, I get the most intense cravings and usually end up binging. :( It's just hard to say no to those cravings, and I don't have a lot of things to distract me from eating (not to mention eating those types of foods is one of the only things that actually make me feel good).

Yes but...what does that tell you? I have the same issue and what I took it to mean was that I was behaving like an addict for sugar. I force myself not to give into cravings because it's a never ending cycle if you do. I think if you go a week or so without processed foods and without a bunch of sugar, you can bust through those cravings. I've been very strict lately- the only sugar I allow myself is a piece of fresh fruit. I do eat complex carbs like brown rice, beans, etc. but right now no simple carbs except for 1 piece of fresh fruit (if that) per day.

runningfromfat
09-20-2011, 03:59 PM
Yes but...what does that tell you? I have the same issue and what I took it to mean was that I was behaving like an addict for sugar. I force myself not to give into cravings because it's a never ending cycle if you do. I think if you go a week or so without processed foods and without a bunch of sugar, you can bust through those cravings. I've been very strict lately- the only sugar I allow myself is a piece of fresh fruit. I do eat complex carbs like brown rice, beans, etc. but right now no simple carbs except for 1 piece of fresh fruit (if that) per day.

This. When I gave up sugar I treated it like I was in AA. I gave it up cold turkey and wouldn't let myself be around it at all. At that point I wasn't watching my diet beyond cutting out sugar so I really put all my emphasis into that. I went about a week in the beginning with no fruit either and I also gave up artificial sweeteners too. That way I desensitized my body to sweet flavors. Even now (well, over a year later), I just don't like stuff that is super sweet anymore. I'm happy to eat plain yogurt with fruit in it, for instance.

That first week was HORRIBLE! I think I drank way too much coffee and ate way too much bread with butter to compensate but eventually the cravings died down and then I started working on the rest of my diet. However, I really did need to concentrate fully on NO SUGAR because I was that addicted (before I gave it up I was eating an entire bag of chocolate chips in 1-2 days and could easily down an entire bag of chocolate riesens in one sitting). I would really feel sick going a day without sugar and it would be on my mind ALL THE TIME.

WannaBeLoserAgain
09-20-2011, 04:37 PM
I started watching it about a week ago and I am back listening to it again.

When I started changing my eating habits back in August, I stopped the junk food eating. It was a rough two weeks. Now, I do not crave the sweets at work.

Prior to my new way of eating, I had uncontrollable wants for sweets when I saw them at work. It was bad!

Try getting off of junk food and soda drinks and tell me how you feel after a few weeks.

Rainbowgirl
09-20-2011, 05:01 PM
I did really good the first week or so on my plan, but I got incredible headaches, fatigue, fogginess, etc. Now, I'm craving sugar like there's no tomorrow and I've given in on unfortunately more than one occasion. I know it's a matter of willpower, but I apparently have none.

runningfromfat
09-20-2011, 05:06 PM
I did really good the first week or so on my plan, but I got incredible headaches, fatigue, fogginess, etc. Now, I'm craving sugar like there's no tomorrow and I've given in on unfortunately more than one occasion. I know it's a matter of willpower, but I apparently have none.

Just a quick question... are you eating enough protein? Are you drinking enough water? Getting enough sleep? Sugar really is very addictive and the best time to try to give it up is a time where you don't have a lot of stress and can take care of yourself (but also have enough distractions so you're not thinking about it all the time too!). It does take awhile to get rid of the cravings but I'm telling you suffering for a bit is definitely worth it long term.

Rainbowgirl
09-20-2011, 05:42 PM
Just a quick question... are you eating enough protein? Are you drinking enough water? Getting enough sleep? Sugar really is very addictive and the best time to try to give it up is a time where you don't have a lot of stress and can take care of yourself (but also have enough distractions so you're not thinking about it all the time too!). It does take awhile to get rid of the cravings but I'm telling you suffering for a bit is definitely worth it long term.

The plan I am on right now (but considering scrapping b/c it's just too restrictive) and have been on for 2 weeks now is high protein, high veggies, low carb. Two pieces of fruit a day is all you're allowed. Lean meat with every meal (Chicken, turkey, or salmon). So for example, I'll have 2 eggs in the morning, or a cup of kefir, for breakfast followed by chicken stir fry sans rice for lunch, followed by grilled salmon with lots of veggies for dinner. A second serving of probiotic and 2 servings of fruit constitute snacks.

I drink anywhere from 1 L to 1-1/2 L of water a day and I get roughly 10 hours of sleep.

I did really good Day 1-9. But since then, I can't control it. I eat enough, I'm never "hungry", but always comfortably full, but I still crave and succumb to the craving. Last night, I had 2 ice cream sandwhiches, came home had a can of Coke, and a chocolate bar, and spaghetti. Although, I didn't really enjoy the chocolate bar, was way too sweet. I think I'm almost over my coke addiction - I've had pop lately but I haven't really tasted it. It's been like an automatic thing; I drink it but I don't taste it. But everything else? I'm hopeless.

runningfromfat
09-20-2011, 06:11 PM
The plan I am on right now (but considering scrapping b/c it's just too restrictive) and have been on for 2 weeks now is high protein, high veggies, low carb. Two pieces of fruit a day is all you're allowed. Lean meat with every meal (Chicken, turkey, or salmon). So for example, I'll have 2 eggs in the morning, or a cup of kefir, for breakfast followed by chicken stir fry sans rice for lunch, followed by grilled salmon with lots of veggies for dinner. A second serving of probiotic and 2 servings of fruit constitute snacks.

I drink anywhere from 1 L to 1-1/2 L of water a day and I get roughly 10 hours of sleep.

I did really good Day 1-9. But since then, I can't control it. I eat enough, I'm never "hungry", but always comfortably full, but I still crave and succumb to the craving. Last night, I had 2 ice cream sandwhiches, came home had a can of Coke, and a chocolate bar, and spaghetti. Although, I didn't really enjoy the chocolate bar, was way too sweet. I think I'm almost over my coke addiction - I've had pop lately but I haven't really tasted it. It's been like an automatic thing; I drink it but I don't taste it. But everything else? I'm hopeless.

Why not try something in between? Leave the sweets off but let yourself have carbs. You can always work your way up to low carb but you don't necessarily have to go cold turkey. One thing that really helped me be able to give up sweets once and for all was to not restrict my other foods (although I did stick to only whole wheat, no white flour). Then when I was ready and felt like I had the sugar cravings under control, I was able to cut back more on other things.

Rana
09-20-2011, 06:11 PM
I think the issue here is that you have to change your habits.

For example, those two pieces of fruit you're having as snacks, are you pairing that with protein?

Because even high sugar fruit can send you into that spiral of craving sweets later.

The other things that you can do is that when you have a craving for something sweet, you grab something salty instead. You eat, okay, but you're now not letting your "craving" win.

So, if you're craving those ice cream sandwiches, grab some beef jerky instead. Your body will be like, "huh?" but eventually it will get the message that craving sweets does not equal getting sweets.

Psychologically, you've made it more desirable than what your body is really craving for, because you've been so restrictive.

Lick some salt if you don't want to eat the calories!

runningfromfat
09-20-2011, 06:14 PM
I think the issue here is that you have to change your habits.

For example, those two pieces of fruit you're having as snacks, are you pairing that with protein?

Because even high sugar fruit can send you into that spiral of craving sweets later.

Really good point. I always eat fruit with something else (normally fruit + cottage cheese is my go to snack).

Rainbowgirl
09-20-2011, 06:50 PM
runningfromfat: What would you suggest to have "in between"? Obviously chocolate, candy, and other junk foods aren't on the list (lol) but what should I have?

I'm giving some really heavy thought to this plan I'm on now and even looking at the other cycles, I'm not sure if I can stick with it. I might try cycle 2 (which introduces good carbs) though and give it a shot. Today I broke plan and made a sandwich with some organic bread I bought ($6 a loaf, ugh) and some natural sliced turkey meat.

Rana: My fruit is usually paired with my probiotic serving, which is plain Greek yogurt with a bit of homemade strawberry jam for sweetness. Lots of protein in the yogurt. Salt is usually off my list because a) I can't tolerate the taste and b) It bloats me up like the Hindenburg, but I will give it a try and just increase my water intake to combat the bloating.

Thanks for the tips! :)

runningfromfat
09-20-2011, 07:03 PM
runningfromfat: What would you suggest to have "in between"? Obviously chocolate, candy, and other junk foods aren't on the list (lol) but what should I have?

I'm giving some really heavy thought to this plan I'm on now and even looking at the other cycles, I'm not sure if I can stick with it. I might try cycle 2 (which introduces good carbs) though and give it a shot. Today I broke plan and made a sandwich with some organic bread I bought ($6 a loaf, ugh) and some natural sliced turkey meat.

I'm assuming you're trying the South Beach Diet or something similar? I eat fairly similarly to Phase 3 on that. I really don't think there is anything wrong with a turkey sandwich on whole wheat bread loaded up with veggies (actually it sounds delicious!). Now, if you're eating processed turkey with cheese on white bread, well, then I'd suggest some changed but make sure when you eat a carb that you're combining it somehow with protein+veggies. Also drinking lots of water is vital!

FWIW, I've tried the South Beach Diet before and was never able to stick with it. The only "diet" that's ever worked for me is making changes that I could stick to and listening to my body's hunger cues.

Rainbowgirl
09-20-2011, 08:25 PM
It's not the South Beach, although I suppose it's similar. It's the "17 Day diet" (no you don't lose all the weight in 17 days lol). The first cycle is no carbs apart from your 2 fruit servings, unlimited amounts of lean protein, and unlimited vegetables plus 2 servings of a probiotic and tons of water. The second cycle (which I'll be starting on Thursday) introduces good carbs (whole grains, quinoa etc) along with a few new types of proteins (shrimp plus certain cuts of red meat for example) every other day. So like Monday you eat a cycle 2 menu, Tuesday you eat a cycle 1 menu, so on and so forth for 17 days. Then you move to cycle 3 where you start portion controlling and eating only a cycle 2 menu.

I'm going to keep at it, and give cycle 2 a try. Cycle 1 is so restrictive, it's almost impossible not to cheat or go off plan because you're shocking your system so bad.

As for the sandwhich, I bought this organic bread from Safeway. SunnyHill or something like that. Something to do with "The Running Room's" founder. Anyway, no fructose in it just organic cane juice for the sugar, and there's only 1 g of it in a slice, plus 100 calories per slice.

For the turkey, I bought Maple Leaf Natural turkey breast (nitrate free, no preservatives, no fillers) again with no fructose (just cane sugar).

1 Tbsp Miracle Whip, a few iceberg lettuce leaves (didn't have romaine in the house) and a slice of Havarti (not the processed cheese slices).

With the sandwich I'm having some carrots and slices of cucumber.

I'm not a really big bread-lover. I love croissants but very very rarely eat them b/c a) they're expensive and b) really high in fat. Bread though is not my top favorite thing to eat, white or otherwise, but I occasionally do like sandwiches.

I'll be giving the salty-snack idea a try as right now, I'm craving big time. We'll see how Cycle 2 goes, maybe it won't be as bad as cycle 1.

Rainbowgirl
09-20-2011, 08:50 PM
http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/01/29/the-bitter-truth-about-fructose-alarmism/

This was given to me by a smart-alek, self-indulgant, know-it-all on another forum (no wonder he's single). It is rather compelling, though, and I haven't read all the way through it.

Rainbowgirl
09-21-2011, 04:20 AM
Me again. I know, you're getting sick of me lol

I ate something salty tonight (about 13 peanuts), have 1-1/2 L of water in me, and currently can barely move my foot b/c it's swollen up. Salt + Me = enemies again. :(

Will have to figure out something else to keep me from going for the sugar.

runningfromfat
09-21-2011, 08:19 AM
http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/01/29/the-bitter-truth-about-fructose-alarmism/

This was given to me by a smart-alek, self-indulgant, know-it-all on another forum (no wonder he's single). It is rather compelling, though, and I haven't read all the way through it.

Interesting. I don't necessarily agree with all of his point but I think we're saying the same thing. ;)

I get what he's saying that the TOTAL number of calories are increasing and it's not that people are necessarily eating a ton more sugar, BUT

-artificial sweeteners are consumed EN MASSE! Seriously, I'd love to know how much money people are making off of Coke Zero. ;)

- Sugar makes you hungrier, which causes you to eat more of EVERYTHING. Ditto for artificial sweeteners (ask me how I know... ).

- Everybody's different and we reach obesity in different ways. Looking at averaged stats of a population, well, isn't very useful in answer the question WHY we got fat because it's so individual. Take DH and myself. If you look at our calories, yeah, we both ate more over time. However he went the route of too large portion sizes and lots of salt whereas for me it WAS sugar. Averaged out you're not going to see that difference. I don't think every obese person got there because of sugar (um, duh!?!) but some definitely did. Not every obese person got there because of fat and salt but some did. That's the big problem with these surveys is that you need to look at a individual's trajectory and THEN compare as a whole but not just average out from the beginning.

Actually... he basically addresses my point.

In the single human study I’m aware of that linked fructose to a greater next-day appetite in a subset of the subjects, 30% of total daily energy intake was in the form of free fructose [12]. This amounts to 135 grams, which is the equivalent of 6-7 nondiet soft drinks. Is it really that groundbreaking to think that polishing off a half-dozen soft drinks per day is not a good idea? Demonizing fructose without mentioning the dose-dependent nature of its effects is intellectually dishonest. Like anything else, fructose consumed in gross chronic excess can lead to problems, while moderate amounts are neutral, and in some cases beneficial [13-15].

And sadly, YES people can go through that amount of sugar. And again, what about artificial sweeteners? Because trust me they have an affect too. I've eaten 170g of chocolate before in one sitting, it wasn't pretty. :(

Also... he says:
One of Lustig’s opening assertions is that The Atkins diet and the Japanese diet share one thing in common: the absence of fructose. This is flat-out false because it implies that the Japanese don’t eat fruit. On the contrary, bananas, grapefruits, Mandarin oranges, apples, grapes, watermelons, pears, persimmons, peaches, and strawberries are significant staples of the Japanese diet [17].

However, fruit is very different than pure sugar. It has fiber, lower calories, and A LOT of water. When you're eating sugar a lot of times you're also get a decent amount of fat and salt, so I wonder what affect that combo has on our bodies?

I would add that fiber is only one of the numerous phytochemicals in fruit that impart health benefits. Thus, it’s not quite as simple as saying that fructose is evil, but once you take it with fiber, you’ve conquered the Dark Side.

Totally agree with this.

Although the tendency is to get hung up on the trivial minutia of an exact gram amount, it’s not possible to issue a universal number because individual circumstances vary widely (this is a concept that baffles anti-fructose absolutists). The big picture solution is in managing total caloric balance with a predominance of minimally refined foods and sufficient physical activity. Pointing the finger at fructose while dismissing dosage and context is like saying that exercise should be avoided because it makes you fat and injured by spiking your appetite and hurting your joints.

and this too. But is this what everyone on 3FC already knew for a long time? ;) You can't oversimplify your diet and say it's JUST one thing. Yes, giving up sugar helped me enormously (to the point that I don't think I would have ever been successful without it) BUT I already was eating a large number of veggies/lean meats/whole grains before I started. Sugar was really the smoking gun for me. However, that's certainly NOT universally true.

In the end I think him and I are saying basically the same thing. However, I really wish that researchers would focus on individuals in terms of how they gained/lost. For instance, I'm sure there are others out there like me where sugar was the smoking gun, there are others who have issues with portion sizes, another group that can't put down salt, then their are emotional eaters, etc. Some even have a combination of more of these. It seems like it would make more sense to do a study and observe where individuals are getting their most calories and if there is any correlation between how they're getting their calories (eating more after having sweets, after an emotional crisis etc). Then they could group those individuals that have similar struggles and treat the big underlying issues (emotional eating, sugar, salt etc). I have a feeling those studies would be quite a bit more successful! If you treat someone like DH for sugar it's worthless because he'll still go and overeat on meat. Ditto for someone like me and dinner portion sizes. However, if you find the underlying cause, well, you can make a world of difference for that person.

ETA: sorry about the longess and probable typos, I wrote this fairly quickly. ;)

Beach Patrol
09-21-2011, 11:39 AM
I was looking for a WRITTEN version of that youtube ... I didn't find one...in case anyone else was looking as well.

http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/0...tose-alarmism/

This was given to me by a smart-alek, self-indulgant, know-it-all on another forum (no wonder he's single). It is rather compelling, though, and I haven't read all the way through it.

AND I strongly believe this is why losing weight is SO DIFFICULT! - because there's just an OVERLOAD of information out there! - it's really hard to know WHAT to believe, what to discard, what to scrutinize, etc.

Also explains why weight loss is such an individual journey... what works for one may not work for others, etc. Still, I am internet-info-addicted, and will continue to watch & read & so forth. ;) :D

Rana
09-21-2011, 12:24 PM
Rana: My fruit is usually paired with my probiotic serving, which is plain Greek yogurt with a bit of homemade strawberry jam for sweetness. Lots of protein in the yogurt. Salt is usually off my list because a) I can't tolerate the taste and b) It bloats me up like the Hindenburg, but I will give it a try and just increase my water intake to combat the bloating.


Ah, if salt (and I noticed you tried it and it didn't work) is an enemy, then don't go down that route!

The thing with yogurt and I had to discover this on my own (I also eat Greek because of it's high protein content) is that the protein/carb ratio in the yogurt itself is enough, without the added marmalade/jam AND the fruit to top it off.

Something I picked up from a book I'll have to look at (I have it at home) is that the ratio of protein/carb matter to keep your blood sugar steady.

Usually, fruit is paired with cottage cheese (not a whole lot of fruit, because cheese has it's own carbs) or with almond butter (yummy) or another protein like jerky. I rarely eat it by myself because I know it throws my insulin off and starts the vicious cycle of craving more carbs.

I would go for unsalted peanuts (or other nuts) and see how that goes. I pick "lightly salted" because it's already a lot of salt in those packages, when I go to the grocery store.

And runningfromfat is giving awesome suggestions.

For me, something in-between is like when I make the homemade, lower sugar, lower fat, version of something I'm craving. French fries are potatoes that oven-roasted with a dash of olive oil, salt, and pepper. Some bakery food? Organic whole wheat pastry flour, organic eggs, organic cultured butter, and all that, with a lower-sugar recipe (and I use brown sugar instead and always put in less).

It usually won't be the calorie bomb that a muffin/cookie/whatever will be elsewhere. For something quick, I discovered a 100 calorie treat with totally processed food, but it's a relatively "healthy" snack -- low fat pastry crust from the grocery store and apple filling. One little apple snack is about 100 calories.