General Diet Plans and Questions - fruit=bad?!




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pointless2011
07-10-2011, 01:35 AM
I have been eating tons of fruit since I started my diet/workout routine 2 weeks ago and I havent lost more than 2 lbs. My aunt told me that eating a lot of fruit might cause this problem because it has alot of sugar... I though fruit sugar was good for u?! HelP!


Lovely
07-10-2011, 01:57 AM
Alright. Couple of things.

1) 2 lbs in 2 weeks is a perfectly wonderful amount to lose. There's nothing wrong with it. There's nothing wrong with losing 2 pounds in 2 weeks.

2) Fruit does have sugar. Fruit is not "bad". In fact, there's lots of good things about fruit. One of the biggest things is that eating a piece of fruit can be sweet and filling from the fiber and water. However, just like any food you can overdo it and eat too much.

3) Are you counting calories or using some other means of controlling your intake? You could eat nothing but fruit and gain weight unless you're controlling the AMOUNT of food you eat all together.

kaplods
07-10-2011, 02:12 AM
Eating "tons" of anything can be a problem (It would be harder to overeat nonstarchy veggies, but with fruit it's not that difficult, I've done it many times).

Good for you doesn't mean zero calories. Eating healthy foods doesn't prevent you from gaining weight or guarantee weight loss. Too much of a good thing, is still too much.

Are you eating too much? I don't know. As already mentioned, 2 lbs in 2 weeks is excellent weight loss (especially at your weight).

Even at my size, I can stall my weight loss on fruit (and have). Today, for example I ate over my calorie budget today by about 500 calories (from watermelon). 500 extra calories, even when they come from fruit, are still 500 extra calories.

For the most part, for most people, it boils down to calories. Yes you want the calories to come from healthy foods, but too many healthy food calories will put on extra weight just as easily as too many unhealthy food calories.


pointless2011
07-10-2011, 11:46 AM
Well I didn't mean that I eat alot of them, I just eat a fruit with almost every meal. I do count and write down what I eat, that's why I'm so confused about it.. But yeah, so sugar in fruit is not as bad as regular sugar? Or am I not understanding this right?

RawrDinosaur
07-10-2011, 12:34 PM
at your size and weight, 2 lbs in 2 weeks is fine. It's working for you.
If you're not diabetic, then there's no reason to freak out over fruit sugars. Calories are calories, as far as weight loss is concerned, and you're taking in a lot of great antioxidants in the meantime.
I'd rather you eat tons of fruit than a ton of fake diet foods.

If you're concerned about the calories of the fruit, buy a nutrional scale. They're easy to use, and will tell you how many calories are in the fruit on your plate.

Lovely
07-10-2011, 02:16 PM
Broken down sugar is sugar. (It's fructose in fruit, btw.)

You might get differing opinions on this depending on the plan a person follows...for example I once heard a person say that fruit is like a candy bar that grows on trees. (Meaning they have a lot of sugar.)

However, I strongly disagree with that analogy. How many candy bars have naturally occurring fiber, vitamins, water, antioxidants? Calorie for calorie a piece of fruit is vastly superior to a candy bar, so much so that it's almost silly to compare it (in my mind) to candy which is almost all sugar and nothing else nutritionally valuable.

For an average person with no particular medical restrictions (like diabetes) some fruit every day, and in moderation even with every meal should not adversely effect them.

That being said, if you're only eating fruits and little in the way of vegetables you might want to reevaluate your balance. Vegetables hold different benefits than fruit that can compliment eachother, but they can't always substitute fully.

kaplods
07-10-2011, 03:01 PM
Well I didn't mean that I eat alot of them, I just eat a fruit with almost every meal. I do count and write down what I eat, that's why I'm so confused about it.. But yeah, so sugar in fruit is not as bad as regular sugar? Or am I not understanding this right?

Sugar is sugar. The sugar in fruit is just as bad (and just as good) as sugar in a candy bar. It has just as many calories per gram. With fruit (as opposed to say a candybar or a can of soda) you're just likely to get more good things WITH the sugar (water, fiber, vitamins, antioxidants and other phytochemicals), and you're (usually) getting more food (by volume and weight) for the calorie. Because of the calorie density, it's much easier to eat 500 calories of candy than it is to eat 500 calories of fruit. The fiber in the fruit helps fill you faster, so you generally eat less. That's why fruit juice isn't much better than Kool-Aid. You get the antioxidants and vitamins, but not the filling fiber.

I think you're looking for a hard and fast answer, and there isn't one. Nutrition is a science of grays - there is no universally healthy diet, but if you keep a food journal, you can determine what works best for you.

Firstly, I think your weight loss is fine - excellent in fact. Losing .5% of your body weight per week, is actually quite good (and you're losing almost .7%).

Also remember that not everyone loses weight in a consistent pattern. And while most people do seem to lose the most in the first few weeks of a diet, that's not universal either. Many people will lose nothing for the first month or so and then will start losing. Some people lose consistently and gradually, other people lose in spurts (what many people here call whooshes).

You can't judge your diet by two weeks (and probably not even two months).
Most people don't want to wait two months to see weight loss, so they tend to make larger chanages. That's great, but it's not always possible when you don't have a lot of weight to lose.

When you have less than 40 lbs to lose, you have to be more precise than if you were much heavier. The difference between losing weight and gaining or not losing - can be as few as 200 calories - two apples. (I'm not saying cut out the apples, just that your metabolism may require fewer calories than you think it does).

Online calorie calculators are only guesstimates based on average. Many people burn far more, and many burn far less than the calculators estimate. Over the years for myself, I've noticed that the calculators overestimate (more each year) my calorie needs. Some calculators have estimated the calories at which I supposedly should maintain my weight, anywhere from 2500 - 4500. Even the lowest estimate is too high. Based on my food journals, I stop losing at around 2300 calories (a little higher if I eat lower carb).

Many people find no difference in weight loss between low-carb and high-carb eating. You may lose equally well on 1200 calories of fruit as on 1200 calories of fish. Some people don't. I have to keep carbohydrates reasonably low or I tend not to lose weight (but not just because of the carb levels, though. Sugars also tend to make me hungrier for more sugars, and to overeat in general).

Without knowing everything you eat, it's hard to even guess what you need to change (if anything at all, because your weight loss has been GOOD so far).

If you can see a dietitian, I'd recommend it. He or she can help you evaluate your whole diet, and can also help you make the best choices overall. Another good option would be to read a book or two about basic nutrition (and maybe for fun, a book on superfoods - but don't let it make you think that you must eat only foods listed as superfoods, or that you have to eat as many as you possibly can cram into your diet).

pointless2011
07-11-2011, 07:39 PM
Lovely; Thank you for your post. I thought that fruit and veggies could be substitutes but now I know to eat them both cause they have dif vitamins and such..

kaplods; Wow that was alot of info to take in, but I'm very glad you replied to my thread. I never look at my weight loss as .7%, not it seems very good to me. I wish I could see a dietitian.. I don't have health insurance for right now :(

joyfulloser
07-12-2011, 09:23 PM
Sorry, but I must respectfully, but strongly DISAGREE with the statement that their is virtually no difference in how the body recognizes simple table sugar vs. natural sugar from fruit.:^:

Here's the BIGGEST difference and the REASON why sugar from fruit isn't harmful. Fruit contains DIGESTIVE ENZYMES necessary to break down the fruit for absorbtion by the body...simply table sugar does not. Proper absorption means NO FAT STORAGE.:)

So eat your fruit til your heart's content. Or just ask yourself...how many people do YOU KNOW who got fat eating fruit?;)

Sunnydays
07-12-2011, 09:34 PM
It really is next to impossible getting fat off of fruit. Can you eat your recommended calorie intake in apples? I sure can't! Even bananas, which have about 100 cal for a medium one.... you really can't eat like 15 bananas before making yourself sick. It comes down to the simple math. Calories consumed must be less than calories burned to lose weight. I completely agree with Joyfulloser! So don't worry about it. Fill up on fruit and veggies! It's good for ya!

Esofia
07-13-2011, 06:03 AM
Or just ask yourself...how many people do YOU KNOW who got fat eating fruit?;)

My mother. She will binge on an entire box of mangoes. Calories are calories, and if you eat too many of them, you will put on weight. I'm pretty sure that if I were to add a lot of fruit to my current diet, my weight loss would cease. Of course, eating back a 500 calorie deficit in fruit alone would be an awful lot of fruit, as kaplods said it's a calorie density thing, but it's doable. Couple of bananas after every meal (what an idea) would do it.

Of course, you're actually losing weight at a good rate as everyone has pointed out, so I don't think you need to worry! If you do find that your weight loss stops altogether at any point, try replacing some of the fruit with vegetables, which are far lower in sugar and thus calories. Slices of cucumber and tomato sprinkled with salt make a great snack.

joyfulloser
07-13-2011, 10:32 AM
My mother. She will binge on an entire box of mangoes.

Hmmm...I see. So, just so the OP is clear...your mother became overweight eating all other types of food in moderation while endulging on boxes of fruit?:?:

Don't know your personal situation, but I have to say the above scenerio sounds HIGHLY unlikely. It sounds like she may have had a binge eating disorder and THAT is what would be the more probable reason for her weight gain...not FRUIT (in itself).

Oh and in your calorie is a calorie statement you never, nor have I ever had anyone else address the fact that fruits have an enzyme (pineapple has Bromelain) in them that aids in its proper breakdown and absorbtion by the body whereas simple sugar doesn't.:?:

In any event...I've always eaten fruit to my hearts content and it has only helped me get healthy and fit!:D

evilwomaniamshe
07-13-2011, 11:16 AM
I suppose this is why I'm a lil fruity, as I consume roughly 6-7 pieces of fruit daily! :) Fresh fruit is yummy, many of the ones I consume have filling fiber. I LOVE apples, avocado, blackberries, bananas, blueberries, cherries, dates, prunes, grapefruit, kiwi, lemon, pomegranate & watermelon.

For me, fruits helps control cravings due to their filling fiber & makes me a lean mean maintenance machine! :)

Here's a nutritional chart of fruits with the calorie count & fiber content in each as well as for veggies, proteins, etc.
http://www.healthalternatives2000.com/fruit-nutrition-chart.html

Suzanne 3FC
07-13-2011, 01:14 PM
But yeah, so sugar in fruit is not as bad as regular sugar? Or am I not understanding this right?

Here's my understanding of it all..

The World Health Organization (WHO) recommends no more than 10% of our daily calories come from added sugars. This does not include the sugar that occurs naturally in our foods such as fruit and dairy. It means sugar added to candy, bbq sauce, cereal, whatever. (though fruit juices/sugars used specifically as a sweetener for other foods is also considered an added sugar)

It's hidden in savory foods as well. Any time you eat something from a package, you stand a good chance of getting added sugars. Especially with HFCS in almost every item in the supermarket. The role of sugar and HFCS in processed foods includes extending shelf life and making foods cheaper to produce. So it's everywhere.

WHO states that the benefits to eating fruit far outweigh the effect of the sugar in the fruit. You'll find fiber of course, but also many nutrients including antioxidants in fruit that you won't find in other foods.

So IMO you should eat all the fruit you want as long as it fits in with your overall pre-planned diet. But watch the sugar that is added to your other foods because that's the real problem.

Esofia
07-13-2011, 03:56 PM
Hmmm...I see. So, just so the OP is clear...your mother became overweight eating all other types of food in moderation while endulging on boxes of fruit?:?:

Don't know your personal situation, but I have to say the above scenerio sounds HIGHLY unlikely. It sounds like she may have had a binge eating disorder and THAT is what would be the more probable reason for her weight gain...not FRUIT (in itself).

Oh and in your calorie is a calorie statement you never, nor have I ever had anyone else address the fact that fruits have an enzyme (pineapple has Bromelain) in them that aids in its proper breakdown and absorbtion by the body whereas simple sugar doesn't.:?:

In any event...I've always eaten fruit to my hearts content and it has only helped me get healthy and fit!:D

Not quite sure what your third paragraph means, did you type in the wrong word somewhere or is it just something I'm unfamiliar with?

Anyway, fruit is what my mother binges on. I've seen her binge on fruit many times. I've only rarely seen her binge on something else. Obviously what she eats will be more complicated than that, but I reckon the fruit binges are a substantial factor in her having put on weight. She probably thinks of it as the one healthy food she can eat as much as she likes of, while knowing that there are reasonable limits to everything and she really shouldn't be eating that much of it.

I have absolutely nothing against fruit, I think it's great, but I also see no reason why the calories in fruit should be disregarded. Digestive enzymes will presumably improve digestion, but they don't neutralise calories, surely?

joyfulloser
07-13-2011, 07:33 PM
Digestive enzymes will presumably improve digestion, but they don't neutralise calories, surely?

No, digestive enzymes don't "neutralize" calories. However, fruit does have a "metabolic" advantage over simple table sugar. Excluding the nutritional advantage of fructose or "sugar from fruit", fructose is SLOWLY broken down by the body, then converted into sucrose or glycogen. It has a low glycemic index, won’t make you crash.

Whereas table sugar has a much higher glycemic index. Your body instantly converts this kind of sugar to energy, where you can have a rush, but then will crash. Plus, if you don’t use up all of the calories taken in, it will be converted to fat.

AND as we all know...foods digested slower are less likely to be stored as fat.

Therefore, it is virtually impossible to get fat by eating too much fruit. Notice I say "virtually"...I suppose a person could get fat eating too much lettuce as well (athough the amounts that would be needed to consume would probably burst their stomachs and kill them anyway...):)

kaplods
07-13-2011, 08:24 PM
AND as we all know...foods digested slower are less likely to be stored as fat.

No, we all do not know this, because it isn't true. It is not digestion speed that determines fat storage, it's excess. If you take in more than you need, regardless of how long it takes for you to digest it, you will store the extra.

Eating lower glycemic, slower digesting foods can decrease hunger and increase satisfaction which can contribute to a person eating less - but it's the eating less not the speed of digestion that is accounting for having no extra to be stored. Not everyone eats out of hunger, so diminishing hunger doesn't necessarily contribute to weight loss.





Therefore, it is virtually impossible to get fat by eating too much fruit. Notice I say "virtually"...I suppose a person could get fat eating too much lettuce as well (athough the amounts that would be needed to consume would probably burst their stomachs and kill them anyway...):)

It would be far easier (and far more conceivable) to gain weight on fruit than on lettuce, because fruit is much more calorically dense. And if you're counting avocado as a fruit, you're looking at 300 calories for a piece of fruit the size of an 80 calorie pear.

If you count fruit juice and dried fruit, many people gain weight on fruit. Even if you count only fresh fruit (and don't count avocado), it's still very possible to stall weight loss (if not gain weight).

I can't say whether I've gained weight specifically on fruit, but I've very often stalled on it (even excluding fruit juice, dried fruit, avocado and even banana).

I've even stalled on an exclusively fruit and veggie diet (fresh, whole, unsweetened fruits, fresh vegetables, and one starchy veggie {one medium potato or 1 ear of corn)per day - and nothing else).

It ultimately boils down to calories in/calories out (not how quickly those calories are digested). Some people can eat a few more calories if they choose low-carb foods (my food journals proved to me, that I'm one of them), but it still boils down to calories. Too many, regardless of where they come from or how slowly they're digested, results in fat storage.


In a country where the average fruit and vegetable consumption is under 5 servings, overeating fruit to the point of weight gain is going to be fairly unusual, but far from impossible.

I've done so, but I've always eaten a lot of fruit and vegetables, and have always gotten a large percentage of my calories from fruit. My weight problem has not been one of quality, but of quantity. I can easily eat 1500 calories of fruit in a day - which leaves very little room for anything else without resulting in extra for storage.

I have found (with my food journals) that I lose much better on 1800 calories of low-carb than 1800 calories of higher carb, even when nearly all 1800 calories come from fruit.

I've stalled on fruitarian diets (eating only fruit) and I've even stalled on Phase II of South Beach (lean meats, healthy fats, whole grains, and fruits and vegetabes), even though South Beach limits a few fruits (I believe only pineapple, and watermelon are limited).

I'm more sensitive to grains than fruits (so I limit them much more than I limit fruits) but I am not a good candidate for an unlimited fruit diet, because sweet foods (even fruit) make me hungrier for more, and even when I only am eating mor fruit I can easily eat more than I need.

Ultimately it boils down to calories. Some people may be able to eat a few more calories when the calories are coming from low-carb sources. Some people may even be able to eat a few more calories when the calories are coming from fruits and vegetables, but ultimately gaining or losing weight boils down to mostly calorie level.

You may not have experienced weight gain or stall on fruit, but many of us have. It's generally on a quantity that most people would consider unreasonable, but if you don't have very much to lose, you have fewer calories to play with, so every calorie counts far more. If you only have 10 lbs to lose, even a few extra pieces of fruit can mean 300-400 calories you didn't need.

Fruit is definitely stalling my weight loss now, because we don't keep junk in the house anymore. If I'm going to eat off-plan over and above my allotted exchange plan, it's usually fruit. But extra calories of fruit, is still extra.

Wannabehealthy
07-14-2011, 09:53 AM
Anyway, fruit is what my mother binges on. I've seen her binge on fruit many times. I've only rarely seen her binge on something else. Obviously what she eats will be more complicated than that, but I reckon the fruit binges are a substantial factor in her having put on weight. She probably thinks of it as the one healthy food she can eat as much as she likes of, while knowing that there are reasonable limits to everything and she really shouldn't be eating that much of it.

I have absolutely nothing against fruit, I think it's great, but I also see no reason why the calories in fruit should be disregarded. Digestive enzymes will presumably improve digestion, but they don't neutralise calories, surely?

Here's my 2 cents. If your mother has already eaten her daily allotment of calories and THEN fills up on fruit because she thinks it's healthy, she will definately gain weight. Fruit is a very healthy food, but it has to be calculated in your daily calorie count.

I limit my fruit intake because I am diabetic and fruit has a tendancy to raise my glucose levels. I do eat bananas, apples and pears and occasionally oranges, but in very small amounts and not every day.

Carol

kaplods
07-14-2011, 12:20 PM
I so agree, but I would add
If your mother has already eaten her daily allotment of calories

Even if those calories only came from fruit

and THEN fills up on fruit because she thinks it's healthy, she will definately gain weight. Fruit is a very healthy food, but it has to be calculated in your daily calorie count.

joyfulloser
07-14-2011, 07:32 PM
Hmmm..mkay...my bad, I assumed everyone here already knew that low glycemic foods aided in weight loss.:?:

Ultimately it boils down to calories. Some people may be able to eat a few more calories when the calories are coming from low-carb sources. Some people may even be able to eat a few more calories when the calories are coming from fruits and vegetables, but ultimately gaining or losing weight boils down to mostly calorie level.

Kaplods - It seems your statements are conflicting? If it were true that a calorie is a calorie is a calorie, then WHY would "some people" be able to eat more fruits and lose weight than others? Or...WHY would "low carb" make any difference in whether you lost or not?

The very premise of "low carb" is based upon the glycemic index. That is the "metabolic advantage" low carb diets give many. You are instructed to stick with fruits/veggies that are low on the glycemic index because those foods are digested slower...causing..errrr...uhhhhh...weight loss.:)

Ok...that said, I'm no scientist...and I don't put much stock in theory or written word. My knowledge and my statements can and should be independently "researched" by anyone who is wondering about this issue. BUT...what I can say is that I have never gained a pound of FAT because of eating fruit. I can say that I've never known or come to know any person who ate moderately with the exception of gorging on endless amounts of FRUIT and subsequently became obese because of it.:)

Perhaps some people use the word "stall" loosely. It is very possible to lose fat without the scale moving. Inches lost...the way clothes fit, etc. are all measures of gauging progress. The key is FAT LOSS...not just WEIGHT LOSS.

Hope this helps someone.:)

kaplods
07-15-2011, 01:15 AM
Kaplods - It seems your statements are conflicting? If it were true that a calorie is a calorie is a calorie, then WHY would "some people" be able to eat more fruits and lose weight than others? Or...WHY would "low carb" make any difference in whether you lost or not?
QUOTE]

I don't believe that I said "a calorie is a calorie," I only said it ultimately boils down to calories. That doesn't mean all calories are equal.

Some people would be able to eat more fruit and lose than others, because we all have different metabolisms that are affected by different things - our activity levels and even where are calories are coming from, and what we eat may affect how much we burn (the calories out, part of the equation).

That's why I never say "a calorie is a calorie," because I proved it to myself with my food logs (months and months of food logs, not just a week or two).

However, that doesn't mean calories don't count, they very much do. In my food journals, I've proven that to lose the same on on high-carb dieting, as I do on low carb dieting there's about a 30% difference (1500 calories of low-carb is roughly equivalent to 1800 calories if low-carb - not counting the first two weels, because when your switch to low-carb you lose quite a bit of water weight, that you will gain again if I switch back to high-carb).

My theory is two-fold. Low-carb turns up my thermostat (a clue that this is true, is that my body temperature is about a full degree higher on low-carb, sure sounds like revving the metabolism to me). Another possibility is that I have more energy on moderately low-carb - I feel better and I do want to do more when I feel better.

I don't know if my experiences are normal or not, so I don't make claims for anyone but myself. However, I've read so many people's similar stories on 3FC and otherwhere, that mine seems to be a fairly common experience.

I believe that what you eat can influence how your body burns calories, but there are limits. You may be able to lose the more, less or the same on 2000 calories of fruit, as on 2000 calories of something else - but even if there is an advantage or disadvantage to eating fruit, it's going to be a fairly small one.

I can lose on 1800 calories of fruit, but the odds of my losing on 3000 calories of fruit is pretty darn slim.





[QUOTE=joyfulloser;3937427]Hmmm..mkay...my bad, I assumed everyone here already knew that low glycemic foods aided in weight loss.:?:

Low glycemic foods aid in weight loss, they don't guarantee weight loss. They don't prevent fat storage, you will still store fat if you eat more than you need, of any food. And while you may be able to eat more LGI food than HGI food, to maintain or lose weight, but there are limits. There has been quite a bit of research that explores the limits of GI, to weight loss. It is not the "all you can eat," as it was often interpreted. So yes, low-gi foods do get stored as fat if you eat too much (just like any food).


The very premise of "low carb" is based upon the glycemic index. That is the "metabolic advantage" low carb diets give many. You are instructed to stick with fruits/veggies that are low on the glycemic index because those foods are digested slower...causing..errrr...uhhhhh...weight loss.:)

Ok...that said, I'm no scientist...and I don't put much stock in theory or written word. My knowledge and my statements can and should be independently "researched" by anyone who is wondering about this issue. BUT...what I can say is that I have never gained a pound of FAT because of eating fruit. I can say that I've never known or come to know any person who ate moderately with the exception of gorging on endless amounts of FRUIT and subsequently became obese because of it.:)

Perhaps some people use the word "stall" loosely. It is very possible to lose fat without the scale moving. Inches lost...the way clothes fit, etc. are all measures of gauging progress. The key is FAT LOSS...not just WEIGHT LOSS.

Hope this helps someone.:)


I definitely have stalled on fruit. And by stall, I mean more than 6 weeks without a weight loss, and no inches lost (and so no muscle gained - if I gained significant muscle I would have lost inches).

I've met a lot of people in TOPS and here on 3FC, and in Weight Watchers meetings who stalled on fruit.

My doctor and diabetic counselor, definitely believes in fruit stalling weight loss and have seen it (especially for those folks like myself with diabetes and insulin resistance), because they both warned me of it. Especially the highest sugar fruits (as I was IR and then diabetic, the blood sugar issue was seperate).

The low-carb diets believe in fruit being a potential problem too, because they all limit fruits. Even South Beach (often not considered a low-carb diet) limits all fruit during the first phase, and certain fruits in all stages.



To be clear, I think most people will lose on unlimited fruit - so it's always worth a try. But for some people, it won't work. Maybe because they have binge issues (as I have in the past) and can easily eat 3,000 calories in fruit, or 1,000 calories of fruit on top of an 1800 calorie diet. Maybe they will have blood sugar issues that drive their metabolism in the toilet (even sugars from fruits).

I'm just saying try it, but - but if it doesn't work, or it works for a while and then weight loss stalls (and by stall I mean 6 weeks or more without a weight loss), you should examine your entire diet, including your caloric intake, your carb and fat intake, and yes, possibly even your fruit intake (or your macro percentages). If 90% of your calories are coming from carbs, even if most or all of them are from fruit, you may have to revise that. Likewise, if you're eating a lot of fruit, and a lot of calories (whether the calories are coming from fruit or not) you might want to rethink that strategy and cut the calories from either the fruit or something else.

Through 3FC, I've met a lot of people who did not gain, lose, or maintain their weight the way I did. Their problem foods differ, the diet they do best on differes, the amount and type of exercise they need differs.

Most of the time when someone says, "no one gets fat doing....." they are wrong. We all get fat different ways, for different reasons, and trying to find a one-size-fits-all approach will never work for everyone, no matter what the approach may be.

christine123
07-15-2011, 12:01 PM
Anything overdone, including fruit, can cause issues. And that's aside from weight gain. My father is thin - 130lbs, 5'6. The man swims hours a day and eats incredibly healthy. He's now pre-diabetic because he eats too much FRUIT. His doctor has cut down his fruit intake substantially to combat this and avoid medicine. This is not from processed sugar, it's from FRUIT! The lesson here as many have said - moderation.

canadianwoman
07-15-2011, 12:59 PM
Fruit is good for you if you keep your daily servings low. I get 2 fruit servings a day and this amounts to one banana (if I want a banana) or 2 apples or 2 oranges or whatever other servings are on my exchange plan.

kaplods
07-15-2011, 02:08 PM
As human beings, we have a natural tendency to oversimplify. We seem to want to label everything as good or bad - but very few things are that simple.

When it comes to food, there are very few foods that can be labeled good or bad, except in the context of your whole diet, and your specific health issues. Fruits are usually good, but you can overdo fruit just like you can overdo almost anything (you can even overdo water), and you may have to be especially careful of even the most natural carbohydrates if you have hypothyroid, diabetes, insulin resistance or other blood sugar issues, and other health issues. (Just as you may have to be careful with other foods such as proteins if you have kidney disease or metabolic issues such as phenylketonuria).

That's why I think it makes more sense to take "bad" and even "good" off the table when talking about food, and instead talk about balance.

It's not the simple answer that is often desired, but nutrition and even weight loss isn't a simple science, so we do a disservice when we oversimplify.



I also use an exchange plan, and I think it's one of the best ways to insure or find balance. Even though there's a good deal of disagreement over what balance looks like, an exchange plan can be adapted to any view of balanced nutrition.

For myself, I believe (through readng and experimentation) that grain foods are a bigger problem than fruit, and I don't believe grain foods are a necessary food group (humans only began eating grains as a large part of the diet fairly recently in human history). As a result, I will sometimes exchange my bread/grain servings for extra fruit. But I do have to trade rather than add, because calories ultimately are the most salient factor in my weight loss. I can lose a little more by making sure my calories are from low-carb sources, but calories are still ultimately the bottom line - and anything with more than a few calories per pound have to be counted towards my daily limit.

It can be hard to understand or even believe someone who has had a very different experience than your own. Especially when it comes to weight loss, because there's a cultural stereotype of the fat person who is in denial or blatantly lying about their food intake. The one who is blaming their weight gain on the banana they had for breakfast (while conveniently forgetting the half-box of sugared cereal that accompanied the unfairly vilainized banana and the dozens of candybars they're eating the rest of the day).

But most overweight people aren't idiots. They're fully capable human beings able to use their brain and judge for themselves (if they have the proper education and tools).

Fruit isn't the first thing you should limit or remove from your diet. Processed carbs are a bigger problem for most people, but you can't say "added sugar is the REAL problem," because that makes it sound like people who have problems with fruit are lying (or they don't have a real problem).

Yes, as a cultural problem, added sugar is a much bigger problem than fruit, but on an individual basis, it can vary. If you remove all the added sugar in your diet, and all processed foods and still have a problem, then you have to look deeper. And the first place to look is where most of your calories are coming from (and where they're not coming from).

christine123
07-15-2011, 02:17 PM
As human beings, we have a natural tendency to oversimplify. We seem to want to label everything as good or bad - but very few things are that simple.

When it comes to food, there are very few foods that can be labeled good or bad, except in the context of your whole diet, and your specific health issues. Fruits are usually good, but you can overdo fruit just like you can overdo almost anything (you can even overdo water), and you may have to be especially careful of even the most natural carbohydrates if you have hypothyroid, diabetes, insulin resistance or other blood sugar issues, and other health issues. (Just as you may have to be careful with other foods such as proteins if you have kidney disease or metabolic issues such as phenylketonuria).

That's why I think it makes more sense to take "bad" and even "good" off the table when talking about food, and instead talk about balance.

It's not the simple answer that is often desired, but nutrition and even weight loss isn't a simple science, so we do a disservice when we oversimplify.



I also use an exchange plan, and I think it's one of the best ways to insure or find balance. Even though there's a good deal of disagreement over what balance looks like, an exchange plan can be adapted to any view of balanced nutrition.

For myself, I believe (through readng and experimentation) that grain foods are a bigger problem than fruit, and I don't believe grain foods are a necessary food group (humans only began eating grains as a large part of the diet fairly recently in human history). As a result, I will sometimes exchange my bread/grain servings for extra fruit. But I do have to trade rather than add, because calories ultimately are the most salient factor in my weight loss. I can lose a little more by making sure my calories are from low-carb sources, but calories are still ultimately the bottom line - and anything with more than a few calories per pound have to be counted towards my daily limit.

It can be hard to understand or even believe someone who has had a very different experience than your own. Especially when it comes to weight loss, because there's a cultural stereotype of the fat person who is in denial or blatantly lying about their food intake. The one who is blaming their weight gain on the banana they had for breakfast (while conveniently forgetting the half-box of sugared cereal that accompanied the unfairly vilainized banana and the dozens of candybars they're eating the rest of the day).

But most overweight people aren't idiots. They're fully capable human beings able to use their brain and judge for themselves (if they have the proper education and tools).

Fruit isn't the first thing you should limit or remove from your diet. Processed carbs are a bigger problem for most people, but you can't say "added sugar is the REAL problem," because that makes it sound like people who have problems with fruit are lying (or they don't have a real problem).

Yes, as a cultural problem, added sugar is a much bigger problem than fruit, but on an individual basis, it can vary. If you remove all the added sugar in your diet, and all processed foods and still have a problem, then you have to look deeper. And the first place to look is where most of your calories are coming from (and where they're not coming from).

I enjoy reading your posts. They are always chock full of wisdom! They get me to think quite a bit too. Thanks! :hug:

JOLINA
07-15-2011, 03:24 PM
I grow all my own fruit. I have fruit trees, berry bushes, and grape vines galore. Berries are one of the most important of fruits to add to your diet. They are absolutely essential to your health. But don't overindulge on any of the fruits.

I could easily go on an all fruit diet, but that would be crazy. I would be deficient in a lot of vitamins and minerals that fruit doesn't contain.

Some of the fruit I grow thins the blood, which is good. It prevents blood clots and strokes, macular degeneration, heart attacks, and also improves night vision and circulation. You definitely need this fruit in your diet.

But eat TOO MUCH of the fruit that contains blood thinners..... and now the doctor has a very difficult time stemming excess bleeding during an emergency operation or oral surgery.
That can be life threatening.

I won't ever have to take Coumadin if I continue to eat certain fruits...that's a big plus. Coumadin is a dangerous drug used to thin the blood.

I limit my fruit intake to 10 ounces of juice per day.
Sometimes I add a banana to that.

Eating anything to excess is just not a good idea. It can be detrimental to your health, especially if you consume way too much of certain fruits that thin your blood too much, and you are in need of an emergency operation.

Another thing you might want to do -- if you have a yard -- is start planting and learning how to grow all the various fruit trees, berry bushes, and grape vines.
The price of fruit is going to double in price soon. An average small city lot can easily produce $1,000 of fruit per year within a few years.

I get a lot of exercize and sunshine working in my garden. And it really pays off in improved health, and has lowered my food bill a lot.

:sunny:

Wannabehealthy
07-16-2011, 08:46 AM
Anything overdone, including fruit, can cause issues. And that's aside from weight gain. My father is thin - 130lbs, 5'6. The man swims hours a day and eats incredibly healthy. He's now pre-diabetic because he eats too much FRUIT. His doctor has cut down his fruit intake substantially to combat this and avoid medicine. This is not from processed sugar, it's from FRUIT! The lesson here as many have said - moderation.

I don't think your father is pre-diabetic because he eats too much fruit. The human body is programmed to handle whatever sugar you ingest by releasing insulin to send the glucose into your cells. It's not until the body quits operating properly, either not producing insulin or resisting the insulin, that the glucose stays in the blood stream and raises the blood glucose levels. Limiting the amount of sugar in your diet will prevent spikes in your glucose levels. Apparently, the doctor reviewed your father's diet and saw that the fruit was the source of his sugar intake.

I just don't want anyone to avoid fruit thinking that it will cause them to become diabetic. It won't.

Carol