General chatter - I need your opinion (re:cheating men)

05-10-2011, 03:09 PM
Okay ladies and gentelmen,
I have a situation that I need an opinion on.

Husband and wife start relationship off rocky (he cheats on her in the beginning, she forgives, they move on) BUT throughout the course of the marriage there have been many other lies, and possibly "cheats". Who even knows anymore..

anyway, lets make this short and sweet. So they get into a fight, and the husband doesnt like what the wife has to say (basically, this needs to change or I am outta here!) so he leaves. Not 10 minutes after he is out the door, he has a message out to some girl on Facebook askin how she is doin and what she is up to. Now, the wife has NEVER even HEARD of this girl before.. never mentioned or broughten up, but apparently (judging from the convo, they are pretty good friends. She refers to the husband as Maffew(his name is Matthew) isnt that just cute as a button *barf*). This gal is a skinny little party girl, looks to be about 18-19 years old, and talks about how much she misses "Maffew".

Now, correct me if I am wrong, BUT! Is it not a little sucpisious that hubby is messaging another gal after he leaves his home and wife!?! He claims he "needed someone to talk to, and was bored so wanted to see how she was doing". I call BS... What do yall think?

05-10-2011, 03:19 PM
I call BS & insecurity. I hate FB. I just recently cancelled mine as a matter of fact.

05-10-2011, 03:22 PM
it's pretty suspicious.

05-10-2011, 03:36 PM
More than just a little suspicious, unfortunately. If he wants to talk to someone how about his parents or siblings? Or is best friend? Or how about his WIFE?

Some girl he's never mentioned before that calls him by a pet name on Facebook? Totally inappropriate for a married man.

If they both want the marriage to actually work? Marriage counseling now. It's not a dirty word, and may show them what they need to do, because right now she's unhappy and doesn't trust him, and he's unhappy and is doing suspicious things...maybe he doesn't even know he's being suspicious, but it needs to be talked about.

(Side note: Facebook is just an awful void that sucks the will to live out of life itself.)

05-10-2011, 03:39 PM
I also call BS. Right after a storm-out-of-the-house fight? No way, pshaw. Thats a red flag.

05-10-2011, 03:47 PM
Def sounds suspicious, but then again once someone cheats.. a lot of things 'they' do seem suspicious, because the trust is broken :(

05-10-2011, 03:49 PM
Hmm, he calls a 20-year-old party girl who calls him by a baby name (and misses him) when he needs someone to talk to about the fight he just had with his wife. Total BS.

05-10-2011, 04:00 PM
Yup, BS. With loud, blaring red alert sirens in the background and an automated voice screaming EJECT! EJECT! Wife should get out of that relationship fast.

05-10-2011, 04:02 PM
From personal experience...lose the jerk! Ultimatums like that are not from a place of love and usually are a set up to make the other person feel like the bad guy. Walk, or run, away, as cleanly and quickly as possible so as to diminish being soiled by that man's excrement!

05-10-2011, 04:07 PM
I'll be the first desenter.

I have no clue if he's cheated or not. He almost definitely has flirted with this girl before, but that's different than actually cheating. Could go either way. The fact that this is going on in public on FB suggested to me that he might just be trying to give you a dig, rather than trying to score.

What is telling is you're suspicious. You know him better than any of us. That could mean that you're right to jump to conclusions. Or it could just mean that you don't trust him and therefore you go straight to worse case scenario. Either way, you guys have issues to work out.

05-10-2011, 04:43 PM
Does it really matter? Either she trusts him or she doesn't. He cheated in the beginning of the relationship (yeah, good luck with that) - either he has made a good faith effort to be faithful and make her trust him or he hasn't. Either she is going to decide to take him at his word, or she hasn't.

If he won't change or she won't trust him, facebook is the least of their worries.

05-10-2011, 05:14 PM
The real question is why continue to stay if the person has cheated from the beginning? No trust = no marriage = move on!

05-10-2011, 05:37 PM
Total BS. He cheated in the beginning, once a cheater always a cheater. Get out of this situation and save your sanity.

05-10-2011, 05:41 PM
She should have left a long time ago.

05-10-2011, 05:47 PM
The wife is well rid of a guy who's sexually attracted to a younger girl who writes messages that actually reproduce the sound of a baby lisp.

The wife is entitled to end this relationship & find herself a responsible, mature adult male who understands that faithfulness is integral to a trusting, lasting marriage. Because the wife deserves that. Any woman does.

05-10-2011, 08:21 PM
I'll be the first desenter.

I have no clue if he's cheated or not. He almost definitely has flirted with this girl before, but that's different than actually cheating... he might just be trying to give you a dig, rather than trying to score.

Yes that would be different, it would be far worse. If my husband cheated, and it was a cheat of opportunity and impulse, not premeditated betrayal, I could probably forgive that. However, if he intentionally tried to make me believe he was having an affair (or about to have one) as a "dig" that would be a deeper betrayal, and it would show a weakness of character that I would not have chosen in a husband had I been aware of it.

I would demand marriage counseling, and if he refused to go, or if he went but made no attempt at actually changing, I'd have to seriously consider the feasibility of the relationship. I don't know if I could stay with someone who was intentionally so emotionally manipulative and abusive.

And I do think a "pretend affair" to "dig" at a spouse is emotional abuse. I'd rather be married to someone who couldn't keep it in his pants, than someone who intentionally would play with my emotions to get back at me in some way or to get my attention. That's a level of dishonesty beyond a sexual affair (I wouldn't tolerate either, but I could forgive the former before the latter. If you love me, you don't intentionally and with malice, mess with my head).

05-11-2011, 12:51 PM
Why is this in Lighten Up? This sounds like a serious discussion, not something funny

05-11-2011, 01:38 PM
ANOther, sorry its just where I posted. Didnt think it would be that big of a deal, would you like me move it?

05-11-2011, 01:54 PM
I'll move it. Hold onto your hat!

05-11-2011, 02:00 PM
Thanks Ruthxxx!!!

05-11-2011, 02:15 PM
If my husband was making new teenage girl'friends' -- that called him pet names, I'd be furious! Time to delete the facebook. =/

I wonder what is so good about the rest relationship, that is making the wife put up with the BS? or is she staying, because of what he 'could' be?.. but isn't. Or is she scared to leave for a host of reasons?

Nola Celeste
05-11-2011, 02:26 PM
I'd almost be more appalled at his choice of FB companionship as I would be of actual cheating. The flirtation is nauseating enough; flirting with someone obviously too immature to have relationships of any sort goes beyond nauseating and into "I'm Chris Hansen from 'Dateline NBC,' why don't you have a seat over there?" territory.

From what you describe, his behavior is flesh-crawlingly creepy to the point that I could not let such a man touch me without feeling the need for a Silkwood shower.

05-11-2011, 02:36 PM
I don't like to draw conclusions with limited information however it is fairly clear based on only a couple of facts.

If it was literally 10 minutes after than it can only be explained one way and that one way is he has been at minimum thinking about this girl for some time. (If he messages someone on FB hours later than it can be explained in many possible ways.)

Any person, man or woman, who gets in a fight with their spouse big enough to cause them to storm out and then starts a flirty conversation 10 minutes after is not a person worth staying with.

Unfortunately while people are capable of change they rarely do. She should move on and I hope there are no kids in this situation.

05-11-2011, 03:44 PM
The real question is why continue to stay if the person has cheated from the beginning? No trust = no marriage = move on!

Usually lack of self respect for ones self. I call total BS, then again if she's dumb enough to stay then she deserves it. Fool me once shame on you (not saying people don't change some people cheat once and never do it again.) but fool me twice shame on me.

Nola Celeste
05-11-2011, 04:15 PM
I'm sorry, I strenuously object to assuming that another poster on here is "dumb" and "deserves it." I'm guessing you're rather young and have no kids; for people who've spent a decent chunk of their lives with another person or who have kids, the decision to leave isn't as easy to make as that. Nor should it be, for that matter. It also smacks a little bit of blaming the victim; she's the one being treated like dirt, and I don't think it's constructive to assume she asked for or allowed it.

With that said, if the OP is NOT tied to this guy permanently with children or hasn't been with him for a decade or more, it might seriously be time to reconsider the relationship.

It's also true that we teach others how to treat us and that if the guy had cheated in the past and suffered no serious consequences, he's likelier to assume that there ARE no serious consequences for it. That doesn't mean she "deserves it," it just means that she's got some work ahead of her to undo that false perception if she wants to save the marriage--and work ahead of her if she wants to divorce the lout and avoid future louts.

05-11-2011, 04:41 PM
I’m not saying she’s dumb per say I’m sure she’s a very intelligent lady by all means but I stand to what I said. Yes I agree she probably isn’t asking for it but in my opinion if you are staying with someone who is treating you like dirt then yes it makes you dumb. **** I was in a similar situation and I’d call myself dumb to for staying in it. At the same time did I deserve it, not in the beginning bit after a while if I couldn’t walk away then yes that was my issue and maybe sure I didn’t “deserve” it but I could have done something to stop it but instead I choose not to for whatever reason it was, so was I dumb yes, did I deserve more than likely after a certain point because I was dumb enough to stay in it. Did it change my perspective on stuff once I left a bad relationship yes, would I be dumb enough to go back into a similar relationship like that? I would hope not. We put ourselves in these situations its not just her a lot of people, as we don't give ourself enough credit for being as strong as we really are so we stick with it and work things out in hoping that things will change. That he or she will change instead of just facing the reality of it. People hardly change and ignorance is bliss as they say.

Nola Celeste
05-11-2011, 04:55 PM
I see your point, and...well, I don't disagree that sometimes it's a dumb decision to stay with something that is clearly Not Working with big capital letters and flaming exclamation points. However, in a marriage--as opposed to a relationship that lasts weeks or months, maybe a year or two--things might not be that simple.

It sounds like you were indeed smart to get out of what wasn't working for you, but you probably didn't have a kid/kids with the guy, pool your financial resources with him, own a home and pay a mortgage with him, or all the other things that make ending a marriage a huge decision. Even without kids and with full financial independence, divorce is a logistical nightmare.

To get back to the original post, he's treating her very poorly, but divorce isn't the automatic answer to "he's treating me poorly." (Okay, if he's physically harming her or anything close to her, it pretty much IS the answer, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.) He's behaving wretchedly, but is it the kind of wretched behavior that counseling or a good heart-to-heart talk can fix? Is there a bedrock level of mutual love and respect on which to build a future despite an incident of crappy behavior? Only the OP knows.

05-11-2011, 04:56 PM
How about this: criticize the choices, not the person.

And actually, Wendy's post is in the third person ... maybe she is talking about her sister?

05-11-2011, 05:24 PM
Okay okay okay!

So first and foremost, I appreciate all the responses.

Now, as some of you may have gathered, I am the wife. And my husband is the husband. I can totally and completely understand where each person is coming from. One poster mentioned that once the trust has been broken everything that the guilty person does, is suspicious. And I absoloutly agree with that! I think there are a lot of things that other people could do and I wouldnt think twice, but when my husband does them, its terrible! I think the big thing that I should mention is that I chose to marry him and in making that decision, I should have let the past die.

CLEARLY, I have some issues with letting things go. I have issues just as well as my husband does. I wanted to put this in the third person so that it would have no emotional tie to me. Obviously people wont sugar coat things as much as they would if they thought they were dealing with emotions.

Now, my husband and I had an "ultimatum talk". I basically told him his personal facebook is a thing of the past (he may keep the business one). I also "re-opened" the book of Matt's life. He is no longer allowed any privacy. I have all passwords and know what is going on at all times. I understand this is no way to live, and I dont think that we will live this way forever. I just want to make sure he is okay with being under extreem surveillance, because if not, thats when I think he's got something to hide.

We talked a lot about this little party girl and I am still pissed about it. The rest of their conversation was about work, and how things are going there. She apparently worked with him for a breif time at Wells Fargo. The conversation (which I followed) was in no way breaking any boundries. BUT I am still mad about it. He deleted her from his Facebook before I even got home from work last night.

I really appreciate the opinions and advice from everyone. I think for me, marriage is more than an agreement, it is a promise. IF I ever catch him cheating again, I will leave. What else can I do. But is him talking to someone about work really grounds for divorce? I would have to say no. Would it be worth seperating our family, selling our home, our cars, splitting savings, and so on.. nope. Not at all. If the behaviour does not cease, then maybe. If he cheats, then absoloutly.

The cheating incedent happened over 5 years ago. Since then, I have been unsuccessful in finding any evidence that he has cheated again. And trust me, I've snooped! I know its not the best way to portray myself, a jealous, snoopy, insecure wife.. but it is what it is!

Once again, thanks for the advice! I am really hoping that a good marriage councelor and some deep focus on our relationship will help!

Arctic Mama
05-11-2011, 05:35 PM
It sounds like you both are on the right track to fixing this. I wish you the very best!

05-11-2011, 06:23 PM
I know you don't want to hear this, but there is no way you will ever know everything. He can have a dozen different FB accounts and email addresses that you don't know about. There is no open book unless HE allows it, and you will never be guaranteed that you know everything.

People can change. I personally know someone that did change, and I am grateful for that every day. And from the moment the promise to change was made, I had ZERO doubts that he meant it and did it.

You guys need some serious hard core heavy duty counseling. This is not something you can do on your own. It's just not.

05-11-2011, 06:48 PM
Once again, thanks for the advice! I am really hoping that a good marriage councelor and some deep focus on our relationship will help!

Hence the reason I wrote this ^
We have no intention of fixing our faults all on our own!!

05-11-2011, 07:03 PM
Trust is also an important part of marriage, and it works both ways. If you feel you need to control all his social contact, does he have your information for all your passwords to social networking and email? While I don't agree with the cutesy baby talk, I can see why he'd find that and the attention from her appealing. It seems you never actually forgave him for the cheating, and are looking for a reason to refuel those emotions.

05-11-2011, 07:17 PM
Canadiancutie- Yes, he has all my passwords, they are all the same! Have been for years! :)

I talked about not being able to let go of the what happened before, so I am going to work with a councelor on that!

05-11-2011, 07:56 PM
I see one thing here that is disturbing me.

He cheated, once. And instead of doing everything in his power to make you feel that it was a one off mistake, it seems like he's done even MORE things to erode your trust. Not cool. You're an adult and so he is. No one should be in a situation where they have to keep constant surveillance on their partner to make sure they aren't cheating. Playing Secret Spy is emotionally draining, and life is short. You deserve to be with someone who will not make you feel this way.

I wish you both the best with the counseling, but frankly none of this sounds like a recipe for happy.