General Diet Plans and Questions - Kcal-counting NEVER WORKS?




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kicksziuziu
04-26-2011, 09:47 AM
So...
I am a BIG fan of calorie counting...
until I came across this killing video...
from this killing smart lady...

search for [edited by admin]. Look for her youtube channel and then her video saying that calorie counting doesnt work.

EDIT:

okok so there's a woman who is very experienced in dieting ( extremely intelligent in that area of biology and she had anorexia when she was a teen so she knows how it feels ).
She says that 3500 is NOT equivalent to 1 pound.

then she tells us how that statement was formed.

1. 1pound=454 g
2. 1g of fat= approx 9kcal
3. 9 x 454 = around 3500.

:/
she says that when your body is not using the energy from the calories you consumed, the ABSOLUTE FIRST THING IT WILL DO is turn your glycogen stores into glucose so that it can function. When the glycogen stores are NEARLY DEPLETED, ONLY THEN does your body start to use your fat as yummy energy...
wouldn't it make sense to just NOT EAT TOO MUCH SUGAR so that you won't have a glycogen store AND THEN eat less calories than needed so that when your body needs energy, it'll just eat straight off the fat? ( or will annoying starvation mode kick in? )

I am totally.depressed.

but it makes sense (what she said)

I've lost much more weight by just eating healthily and counting calories IN MODERATION than living on 900kcal and counting calories like a mad scientist.

SO I WOULD LIKE TO ASK A QUESTION ( for those of you who have suceeded in anti-caloriecounting diets... )

Can I lose weight by just eating everything on the food pyramid in moderation/in their recommended portions?


Txalupa
04-26-2011, 09:53 AM
Hi! I'm not a calorie counter, but I count sugar and carbs. I think that my problem is moderation in itself. When I used to count calories, I would waste my calories on cookies. Well, I actually put on weight. Now that I count sugars and carb grams, and I have a set amount I can eat of them each day, I look at a piece of food and think YES I can have this because I have enough carbs left or NO I don't have enough left, eat something else. I NEED that black/white response.

I don't know where my 'moderation switch' is. If you find it, let me know.

Suzanne 3FC
04-26-2011, 10:20 AM
I've edited the post to remove the search term because of our forum policy for new members to help prevent spam. The topic discussion is welcome, however.

Thanks :)


Suzanne 3FC
04-26-2011, 10:26 AM
SO I WOULD LIKE TO ASK A QUESTION ( for those of you who have suceeded in anti-caloriecounting diets...

Can I lose weight by just eating everything on the food pyramid in moderation/in their recommended portions?

The food pyramid, in their recommended portions, is calorie controlled :)

http://www.mypyramid.gov/mypyramid/index.aspx

bargoo
04-26-2011, 10:43 AM
Most diets are calorie controlled. You may be counting fat grams, carb grams or perhaps counting points. Even the meal delivery plans, all are reducing calories in some manner.

supergir111
04-26-2011, 11:20 AM
Glad you found somthing that works for you. Calorie counting works for some also. I lost quite a few pounds eating low carb but it isn't a long term option for me.

caryesings
04-26-2011, 12:51 PM
Yes! Yes! Yes! I lost all of my weight by logging my food and exercise on mypyramidtracker.gov. It drives me crazy that so many folks are convinced that eating by the government guidelines has a political agenda and if you eat the way that is recommended you'll be unhealthy. It just isn't true. Go ahead and just try to earn your smiley faces for eating all your fruits and vegetables and the rest will take care of itself.

I also specifically stayed within their guidelines for saturated fat and fiber. I've lost 100 lbs and here are how much my medical markers improved:

BP: then 130/85, now 100/70

Total Chol: then 210, now 164
Triglycerides: then 160, now 71
LDL: then 119, now 83
HDL: then 59, now 67

And yet I'm continually told how the Food Pyramid has lousy recommendations because "the government' is behind it. My answer is, follow the guidelines for even 6 months and THEN tell me how unhealthy it is! Ok, rant over...

kicksziuziu
04-27-2011, 11:43 PM
I've edited the post to remove the search term because of our forum policy for new members to help prevent spam. The topic discussion is welcome, however.

Thanks :)

ahh sorry I'll just edit it and say what she said XD

Dagny18
04-28-2011, 12:00 AM
I've lost almost 150 pounds by counting calories...
And yes, in the beginning I really just ate what I wanted and later ate more nutritious foods, but I think it was a good start.
I knew that if I wanted a small piece of chocolate or whatever I could have it and just count it into my calories...

kicksziuziu
04-28-2011, 12:10 AM
thanks everyone ^_^ thank you so much!
now I know what to do.. :D
HAPPYHAPPYHAPPYHAPPY

kaplods
04-28-2011, 12:59 AM
I cringe whenever I see someone bashing every plan except the one they succeeded with (or every plan that doesn't fit their current theory).


I think there's ample proof that different people succeed on different plans.

I don't know if I believe in soulmates or the diet equivalent (the theory that there's only one perfect option for you, and any other choice will result in at least some degree of failure).

I think succeeding at weight loss (or love) is multi-faceted. Part of success is choosing the right option(s) and the rest is working at building the results desired by trial-and-error effort.


Diet-wise, I'm following a low-carb exchange plan because it's been the most successful for me (and improves some of my health issue symptoms). There were reasons I found simple "just" calorie counting impractical and ineffective for me, but it would be a huge and illogical leap for me to conclude that calorie counting never works (or even that it had never worked for me
).

In fact, exchange plans can be considered a calorie-counting plan, because all of the foods in any of the exchange categories, all have similar calorie counts. So a bread or starch exchange may be a slice of bread, half a bagel or a small potato, but the calorie count (about 80) is the same no matter what you choose as your bread/starch exchange.


I love my plan, and I brag it up when I can, because I think a lot of people would benefit by trying it. A lot of people, not everyone. And truthfull, I'd suggest people try something less restrictive first. Why make more rules/guidelines for yourself than you have to?

Not everyone wants to follow an exchange plan or a low-carb plan let alone both, and just because I think it's terrific doesn't mean everyone would or should.


I just think a lot of time is wasted arguing on which plan "works the best" (as if there were a one-size-fits-all plan) or arguing that there is a one-size-fits-all plan, instead of maybe discovering ways to try and evaluate the plans that are developed. Who finds which plans the most successful.

It would be nice if we didn't have to rely quite as heavily on trial and error, but I think that's science fiction at this point. Maybe someday there'll be an assessment tool that will predict which plan or plans a particular person would likely find most effective, but for now you try things and see what happens..


Personally, I suggest everyone use the least restrictive plan that works. Start making changes you consider doable. Evaluate the results of those changes. Keep making changes until you're happy with the results. If you become unhappy with the results at any time, make the smallest/fewest changes that gets the results.

For many people that's simple calorie counting (without figuring in "other stuff"), and I think it's silly to argue that calorie counting "never works" because we all know people for whom it has worked (sometimes even ourselves).

I don't get the unnecessary plan-bashing.

kicksziuziu
04-28-2011, 11:03 PM
I cringe whenever I see someone bashing every plan except the one they succeeded with (or every plan that doesn't fit their current theory).


I think there's ample proof that different people succeed on different plans.

I don't know if I believe in soulmates or the diet equivalent (the theory that there's only one perfect option for you, and any other choice will result in at least some degree of failure).

I think succeeding at weight loss (or love) is multi-faceted. Part of success is choosing the right option(s) and the rest is working at building the results desired by trial-and-error effort.


Diet-wise, I'm following a low-carb exchange plan because it's been the most successful for me (and improves some of my health issue symptoms). There were reasons I found simple "just" calorie counting impractical and ineffective for me, but it would be a huge and illogical leap for me to conclude that calorie counting never works (or even that it had never worked for me
).

In fact, exchange plans can be considered a calorie-counting plan, because all of the foods in any of the exchange categories, all have similar calorie counts. So a bread or starch exchange may be a slice of bread, half a bagel or a small potato, but the calorie count (about 80) is the same no matter what you choose as your bread/starch exchange.


I love my plan, and I brag it up when I can, because I think a lot of people would benefit by trying it. A lot of people, not everyone. And truthfull, I'd suggest people try something less restrictive first. Why make more rules/guidelines for yourself than you have to?

Not everyone wants to follow an exchange plan or a low-carb plan let alone both, and just because I think it's terrific doesn't mean everyone would or should.


I just think a lot of time is wasted arguing on which plan "works the best" (as if there were a one-size-fits-all plan) or arguing that there is a one-size-fits-all plan, instead of maybe discovering ways to try and evaluate the plans that are developed. Who finds which plans the most successful.

It would be nice if we didn't have to rely quite as heavily on trial and error, but I think that's science fiction at this point. Maybe someday there'll be an assessment tool that will predict which plan or plans a particular person would likely find most effective, but for now you try things and see what happens..


Personally, I suggest everyone use the least restrictive plan that works. Start making changes you consider doable. Evaluate the results of those changes. Keep making changes until you're happy with the results. If you become unhappy with the results at any time, make the smallest/fewest changes that gets the results.

For many people that's simple calorie counting (without figuring in "other stuff"), and I think it's silly to argue that calorie counting "never works" because we all know people for whom it has worked (sometimes even ourselves).

I don't get the unnecessary plan-bashing.

Well, I do agree that all diets "work" to some extent. However, some are more effective and painless than others and some are close to ineffective.
I remember someone saying

"All diets work if you STICK TO THEM"

and someone else saying

"If you put a woman who complains about not losing weight on 1200kcal in a lab and feed her exactly 1200kcal, she'll lose the weight."

Nola Celeste
04-29-2011, 05:18 AM
Well...yeah, the "if you stick to them" part is the tough part, though.

Some people have a MUCH tougher time sticking to one kind of plan or another. It doesn't mean they're bad plans or that they're bad people--it's just a bad fit between plan and person.

It's not even true that someone will lose weight on 1200 calories a day. If that particular person is slightly built or older, she might not lose an ounce. And it's also not a real-world example, because for some people, a 1200-calorie-per-day diet would be torture. It would be misery for some people to stick to that. Yet those same people might be able to handle 1500 calories great, or might thrive on 1200 calories of low-carb stuff, or might relish 1200 low-fat calories, or...you get where I'm going, I think. :)

All weight loss has to be sustainable. To me, that's part of the definition of a diet "working." Just achieving weight loss isn't enough for me. I went on Atkins and dropped fifteen pounds, but my tongue turned black and I didn't poo right for that whole time (TMI, I know :D). It "worked" in one sense because I lost, but it sure didn't work in the sense that I felt good and healthy and happy and like I could do that for the rest of my life.

You're right that some are more painless than others, but the interesting thing about human physiology is that "painless" is different for each of us. For me, calorie counting works in the meaningful sense--it both allows me to lose weight and lets me enjoy my life. :)

kicksziuziu
04-29-2011, 11:08 AM
Well...yeah, the "if you stick to them" part is the tough part, though.

Some people have a MUCH tougher time sticking to one kind of plan or another. It doesn't mean they're bad plans or that they're bad people--it's just a bad fit between plan and person.

It's not even true that someone will lose weight on 1200 calories a day. If that particular person is slightly built or older, she might not lose an ounce. And it's also not a real-world example, because for some people, a 1200-calorie-per-day diet would be torture. It would be misery for some people to stick to that. Yet those same people might be able to handle 1500 calories great, or might thrive on 1200 calories of low-carb stuff, or might relish 1200 low-fat calories, or...you get where I'm going, I think. :)

All weight loss has to be sustainable. To me, that's part of the definition of a diet "working." Just achieving weight loss isn't enough for me. I went on Atkins and dropped fifteen pounds, but my tongue turned black and I didn't poo right for that whole time (TMI, I know :D). It "worked" in one sense because I lost, but it sure didn't work in the sense that I felt good and healthy and happy and like I could do that for the rest of my life.

You're right that some are more painless than others, but the interesting thing about human physiology is that "painless" is different for each of us. For me, calorie counting works in the meaningful sense--it both allows me to lose weight and lets me enjoy my life. :)

You have some pretty good points here.
...
Yes that is too much information. But at least it gives me an idea of what I should avoid... A black tongue? Does that mean pitch black? That must've been a quite uncomfortable... Brushing your teeth and seeing a black tongue...That is truly... uhh did it hurt? :(

Hmmm. When I mean painless, I mean no dizziness after exercise, no stomach growling, no fainting, and no diseases.

Nola Celeste
04-29-2011, 12:41 PM
The black tongue thing completely freaked me out. It looked like I'd been eating licorice jellybeans or something (I hadn't) and it couldn't be brushed off. It's apparently not an uncommon or dangerous condition called black hairy tongue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hairy_tongue).

My best guess is that a dietary imbalance or a simple lack of mechanical friction--the article did mention that eating soft food could cause it--was responsible. BUT! The important thing to remember is that Atkins by itself is not a bad thing just because it made ME miserable. For other people, it's awesome.

And that's why I don't buy a video that says "____ NEVER works for weight loss" unless the ___ is something like "eating a bucket of fried chicken for every meal"--and even then, there might just be that one bizarro person who actually loses weight on fried chicken. :D

I agree with your definition of "painless" and would add in a few more important characteristics that I have to have in a plan: no (or few) insatiable cravings, no cutting out an entire food group, and no choking down stuff I absolutely hate.

People are hard-wired to enjoy food; some people are able to overcome that and see food solely as fuel, but for me, it's important to retain my ability to appreciate a good meal. Life's too short to eat a plain rice cake. Ever. (Unless of course you enjoy plain rice cakes, in which case, knock yourself out!)

Other people might have other deal-breaking definitions: a plan has to fill them up completely, for instance, or it's got to be vegetarian or vegan, or it can't involve too much cooking due to time constraints. With so many stipulations on what each of us finds a sustainable plan, it's not possible to define a single "best" plan for everyone.

And I'm sorry for sharing that black tongue stuff. It was really distressing, especially as I am a scrupulous tooth- and tongue-brusher and just felt freaked out entirely by that malady. It only lasted a few days, but ugh...LOL, I thought I was in dire peril, it looked so alarming!

kicksziuziu
04-30-2011, 12:59 AM
My best guess is that a dietary imbalance or a simple lack of mechanical friction--the article did mention that eating soft food could cause it--was responsible. BUT! The important thing to remember is that Atkins by itself is not a bad thing just because it made ME miserable. For other people, it's awesome.

And that's why I don't buy a video that says "____ NEVER works for weight loss" unless the ___ is something like "eating a bucket of fried chicken for every meal"--and even then, there might just be that one bizarro person who actually loses weight on fried chicken. :D

I agree with your definition of "painless" and would add in a few more important characteristics that I have to have in a plan: no (or few) insatiable cravings, no cutting out an entire food group, and no choking down stuff I absolutely hate.

People are hard-wired to enjoy food; some people are able to overcome that and see food solely as fuel, but for me, it's important to retain my ability to appreciate a good meal. Life's too short to eat a plain rice cake. Ever. (Unless of course you enjoy plain rice cakes, in which case, knock yourself out!)

Other people might have other deal-breaking definitions: a plan has to fill them up completely, for instance, or it's got to be vegetarian or vegan, or it can't involve too much cooking due to time constraints. With so many stipulations on what each of us finds a sustainable plan, it's not possible to define a single "best" plan for everyone.

And I'm sorry for sharing that black tongue stuff. It was really distressing, especially as I am a scrupulous tooth- and tongue-brusher and just felt freaked out entirely by that malady. It only lasted a few days, but ugh...LOL, I thought I was in dire peril, it looked so alarming!

hmm. Losing weight on KFC. That's a diet of the near future :)

Robsia
05-03-2011, 11:21 AM
I lost 84 pounds through counting calories. *shrug*

Counting calories works fine if you know what to eat. Eating 1300 calories of cream cakes a day would help you lose weight, but there is no wy anyone could keep it up as 1300 cals of cream cakes isn't really very much and you would be hungry. Also they are nutritionally deficient.

So, eating 1300 calories a day of healthy, nutritious, filling food is obviously better and more sustainable.

And sometimes I even ate chocolate and pizza and chips - just not all the time.