Faith Based Support Groups - I'm CURIOUS! FREE as A BIRD or ......




EZMONEY
04-13-2011, 09:52 PM
I am always interested in hearing what people say about their religion or their thoughts in general on it...I was wondering :chin: today this....

Would you rather be dependent on God for ALL THINGS "or" Free as a bird?

and WHY?

I think most of you know where I stand :angel:.....;)


thelittleflower
04-13-2011, 11:04 PM
I have a hard time being dependent on God for all things, because in real life I have been burned by people I relied on. I want to have control, I want to choose my own destiny, I value my independence from everything. This is so hard for me. Which is why I go in spurts of going to church for a month then lapsing. Because I cannot be dependent on anyone but myself to take care of me.

Nola Celeste
04-14-2011, 02:12 AM
For me, one of the greatest things we have is free will. Choosing to do right versus being compelled to do right--which is the nobler thing? It's a question that C. S. Lewis liked to explore, and he was devoutly Christian himself. (So did Anthony Burgess, but I don't know if he was exploring it from a particular religious perspective.)

Is there an in-between option? Is there space between "dependent for all things" and "free as a bird?" If so, that's where my answer would be. Tiny children are dependent. Adults make choices. There can be no choice without sufficient freedom to make one.

I would rather be free, and be free to choose well. That comes from a decidedly lapsed Presbyterian, though, so I expect my view to look different from others'. :)


konfyoozed
04-14-2011, 02:22 AM
i have these debates with my fiance on a regular basis. he's in school right now to become a pastor, and he often quotes the line from a song "if you wanna hear God laugh, tell him your plans"... he firmly believes that God has a plan for everyone, but he has allowed that even though God has the plan, the individual in question can take a very circuitous route to get there.

i like to think my decisions are my own, but when they get too much for me, i do pray for strength and guidance. there's comfort, to me, in knowing that i'm not alone and i'm not out there in the wind without a tether.

thelittleflower
04-14-2011, 07:25 AM
Being an on-and-off LDS...we believe in agency. God has a plan, but we make our own choices. Agency is God's gift to us.

From the Bible dictionary:
Agency is the ability and privilege God gives us to choose and to act for ourselves. Agency is essential in the plan of salvation. Without it, we would not be able to learn or progress or follow the Savior. With it, we are "free to choose liberty and eternal life, through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death, according to the captivity and power of the devil" 2 Nephi 2:27

EZMONEY
04-14-2011, 10:43 PM
Thank you all for your thoughts so far.

I have my thoughts on the subject too but not enough time tonight to post them.

thelittleflower thank you for your thoughts too! But I think you should clarify where your "quote" comes from...I know but some may assume it is from the Bible as you said from the Bible dictionary...I can assure you it is not in any Bible dictionary I own. Please keep posting as I am interested in what you have to say!!

Have a great evening everyone!

thelittleflower
04-15-2011, 11:25 AM
BD as in the quaduple combination LDS'ers use for church. Quad consists of KJV Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctine & Covenants, Pearl of Great Price.

I'd be happy to go to another church if it more closely matched my beliefs. I'm not too keen on the whole "modern prophet" thing

DixC Chix
04-15-2011, 12:09 PM
I am pretty sure God has already decided this when he bestowed man with dominion over animals and plants and in naming them. In giving them everything, (even the serpant to tempt them) they still used their free will to choose fruit of the forbidden tree.

Its always about choice and God knows this.

JoJoJo2
04-15-2011, 01:53 PM
I believe that I was created by God, the Creator.

I believe that I was redeemed by Christ, the Redeemer.

I believe that I was sanctified (made holy) by the Holy Ghost, the Sanctifier.

Being now a child of God I live a life, insofar as I am able, according to His Will. But I am still a sinner, and in need of His forgiveness on a daily basis.

HOWEVER

I have the freedom, or free will, to refuse all of that love that God has shown me. I can choose to reject all of God's Grace. I can choose to live a sinful life outside of the community of believers.

I'm thankful every day that I am a Christian. :)

Justwant2Bhealthy
04-15-2011, 09:46 PM
This is an interesting question becuz GOD has given us FREE WILL; and the FREEDOM to choose life or death (Deuter 30:19). Yes, He has also given us dominion over all the earth and all it contains too (Psalm 8:6). He has given us control over a lot really -- including the choices we make each day. I do prefer to pray and ask for His guidance though; and I do truly believe we get guidance from His Word (the bible) and the Holy Spirit as well.

So, while we may choose to be dependant upon GOD for many good things and His Angel protection, and His wisdom and salvation, and His grace & mercy, and many other wonderful things ... we are also FREE at the same time.

The bible says that "if the Son (Jesus) makes you FREE, then you are free indeed" (John 8:36) & "Christ has made us free" (Galatians 5:1). We are free to make better choices; free from the bondage to sin and free from the fear of death (including the second one); free from guilt & shame; and free to choose a better life & a brighter future for ourselves too ...

Jesus also offered us freedom from the cares of this world, including enslavement to money & things, relationships & people, idols, worries & anxieties, appearances & status, plus rituals, rites & the old laws, etc. Now that's freedom!

While we need to let our hearts be child-like to be free to believe (not childish); we still need to grow up & mature to make adult decisions & choices. That is a unique freedom we have in Christ: to have a free child-like faith in GOD, yet we can still make choices too, like any adult would.

And it's true that man can not always be depended upon (like someone else mentioned here); but we can trust in GOD and rely on the LORD becuz they are faithful & true ... and pure & holy and dependable! That's another freedom GOD gives us. Freedom to trust and rely on Him (just like a child would his/her parent); but GOD is a mature Father and allows us free choice and free will too. He allows us to grow up and make decisions & choices for our lives as well (just like any good parent would); and that includes the freedom to make mistakes too (and boy, do we ever do that a lot; what a patient GOD He is)!

So we have the best of both worlds: we can have some dependancy on GOD and yet Freedom at the same time. Some believe, the less we depend upon ourselves, and the more we depend on GOD, the free-er we become. Does that make any sense to you? Less of me, more of Christ ... is true freedom! I put my confidence in GOD's goodness and in Christ's righteousness, not in me becuz I am flawed & weak. BUT, as I become more like HIM, that is -- the best person that I can be, the free-er me I'll be ... ;)

EZMONEY
04-15-2011, 11:41 PM
....
Its always about choice and God knows this.

:) True, but is it your choice to be dependent on God?

EZMONEY
04-15-2011, 11:42 PM
BD as in the quaduple combination LDS'ers use for church. Quad consists of KJV Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctine & Covenants, Pearl of Great Price.

I'd be happy to go to another church if it more closely matched my beliefs. I'm not too keen on the whole "modern prophet" thing

Thank you for your reply....I LOVE your last sentence ;)

EZMONEY
04-15-2011, 11:42 PM
Thank you Jo-Jo and Rosebud.....

EZMONEY
04-15-2011, 11:51 PM
.....
Being now a child of God I live a life, insofar as I am able, according to His Will. But I am still a sinner, and in need of His forgiveness on a daily basis.

HOWEVER

I have the freedom, or free will, to refuse all of that love that God has shown me. I can choose to reject all of God's Grace. I can choose to live a sinful life outside of the community of believers.

I'm thankful every day that I am a Christian. :)

:)

.....Jesus also offered us freedom from the cares of this world, including enslavement to money & things, relationships & people, idols, worries & anxieties, appearances & status, plus rituals, rites & the old laws, etc. Now that's freedom!


:)

EZMONEY
04-15-2011, 11:53 PM
What if I could break away from the hold of God as a bird and could fly wherever I wanted when I wanted....

would I still need God?

JoJoJo2
04-16-2011, 11:21 AM
If you fly away, Gary, God would continue to richly and daily provide you with all that you need to support your body and life, whether you would be willing to admit it or not.

After all, God has made you and all creatures; He has give you your body and soul, your eyes, ears and all your members, your reason and all your senses, and still takes care of them.

He gives you clothing and shoes, food and drink, house and home, wife and children, and all that you have.

He defends you from all danger, guards and protects you from all evil, purely out of His Fatherly divine goodness and mercy.

Yep, if you fly away, you will still need God, in spite of yourself. :)

EZMONEY
04-16-2011, 06:53 PM
Wise words JoJOJO......

Reminds me of something I read...

I will share later, when I find it.....

JoJoJo2
04-16-2011, 07:33 PM
The phrases I used are right out of Luther's Explanation to the First Article, Small Catechism. No wonder it sounded familiar to you. The phases said exactly what I wanted to say.

:wave:

EZMONEY
04-16-2011, 11:25 PM
Ah ha Jo....I am a big fan of that Martin Luther guy!....lol

JoJoJo2
04-17-2011, 01:10 PM
Ah ha Jo....I am a big fan of that Martin Luther guy!....lol

Me, too! :wave:

EZMONEY
04-17-2011, 08:17 PM
I found what I was looking for.....:)

As I look over your comments and research daily in some way to reassure TRUTH once again I see we cannot escape God :carrot:

HE is always there no matter what for us.....happy times :) sad times :( angry times :mad: even those times when we are attacked :devil:

He sounds like a pretty good guy ;)

I hear His SON is pretty awesome too :)



The naturalist knows that the supposedly free bird actually lives its entire
life in a cage made of fears, hungers, and instincts; it is limited by weather
conditions, varying air pressures, the local food supply, predatory beasts, and
that strangest of all bonds, the irresistible compulsion to stay within the
small plot of land and air assigned it by birdland committee. The freest bird
is, along with every other created thing, held in constant check by a net of
necessity. Only God is free. A.W. Tozer

EZMONEY
04-18-2011, 09:08 PM
So I get home from work today and Angie is out washing her car....she says "guess what time of year it is?"....I can't.....she said the time of year when we have dead birds in the flower bed....

ohh....we have a brick column at our stairs leading up to the front door, every year birds build their nests in it...we watch and listen...

and clean up bird poo off the porch! ha!

but every year one or two don't make it and fall to the flower bed below and die...

Now then....was it because they were not "survival of the fittest"....was it because God gave up on them?

is it a reminder to us we need God in ALL things?

JoJoJo2
04-20-2011, 01:49 PM
"To everything there is a season, a time for every purpose under heaven; a time to be born and a time to die;" - Ecclesiastes 3:1-2

I would assume that the word 'everything' also refers to the little dead birdies in your flower beds. I don't understand it, but that's OK by me. I don't worry about it either. :)

Have a Blessed Easter everyone.

iaradajnos
04-20-2011, 02:48 PM
Hello everyone. I hope it's alright to join in on your discussion. I am a member of the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers). We use a lot of different terminology from what I've been reading in this link but I see some parallels to my own thoughts especially after this weekend's silent women's retreat I was on. Not many places to share the power experienced these past few days so thought I'd join here.

What comes to my mind is Matthew 6:28 ""And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin." I live in the Light at all times and when lucky in my worship may be able to recognize and be refreshed by the Light. I am more confident that I should not worry or be anxious because worry does not solve anything but also following the Light is not easy but it is a sure Way.

Before making decisions, I sit in silence alone, with my family or with my Meeting's Friends ("meeting" is our place of worship or also the act of being in worship with one or more others; "Friends" are Quakers; "friends" are buddies or pals).

In worship, I find refreshment, comfort, support, clarity and more. So, I am dependent on the Light for all things as I need to be sure that my decisions are housed in the Truth of my faith and practice.

I'm not familiar with the Bible but have been touched by a few lines that are consistent with my faith. In Philippians 4:6, I think the line is close to my thoughts but there is some difference. "Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God." I do not petition but reflect in the Light to find consistencies or inconsistencies. I do spend many hours in the Light simply in gratitude. When I'm in crisis, I turn to the Light for so much.

As the Light is inside of me, I do feel free as a bird but maybe it's because the birds and the lillies seem to be all those that are in line with the Light and without worry.

kaplods
04-20-2011, 03:54 PM
I don't see birds as particularly free. Birds fly because it's in their genetic programming, not because they've chosen "freedom."

Freedom (free will) is both a gift and a burden.

Sometimes I do wish I had the "genetic programming" to do God's will without having to think about it. A bird has that, but it's not freedom.

All creatures except man are exactlly what God wants them to be. They all do exactly what God wants for them.

We're the only creature on the planet who have to (and get to) think about God's Plan and whether or not to participate in it.

The burden and the joy are inseperable. You always do have the choice to ignore God, but you never have the choice of not depending upon Him and his creation.

You can choose to ignore and even disobey God, but you can't choose to live independent of his gifts, because life itself is one of those gifts.

EZMONEY
04-22-2011, 04:54 PM
Good Friday!