General chatter - Jamie Oliver's Food Revolution in LA begins tonight




cbmare
04-12-2011, 04:39 PM
I'm looking forward to it. Apparently the school district would not allow him to film at the school. So he worked around it.

It is on ABC tonight.

http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2011/04/jamie-olivers-food-revolution-back-for-a-second-helping-this-time-in-la.html


HAPPYPT
04-12-2011, 04:54 PM
Thanks for the reminder, i love Jamie Oliver

niafabo
04-12-2011, 09:14 PM
Just got done watching it poor Jamie looked was turned down right and left. Hopefully he'll be able to turn things around and change some minds. He really tries his best.


alicia89
04-13-2011, 01:32 AM
I've watched all of the food revolutions - both of the UK ones and the previous American one. I think the issues are so so important but I really dislike Oliver's approach, especially in the American shows. I enjoyed his UK food revolution as I found it focused more on the issues and activism and less on making good tv. The American one seems to have much more overly-contrived drama and conflicts to make it into a typical reality tv show. I find Oliver extremely self-righteous, passive-aggressive and he always has this attitude of how he is being sooo persecuted. I also find him extremely short-sighted about issues of class, race, food deserts, education, how regional and cultural difference affect attitudes towards food and socioeconomic status in general.

I couldn't believe how disrespectful he was to the guy who owns the indie burger joint! I think the guy was very generous in letting Oliver come into his kitchen, the place of his bread and butter, and then he gets repaid by passive-aggressive comments like "am I wasting my time here?". I have a lot of respect for that guy. He didn't back down, he was blunt and honest and he didn't try to give a diplomatic answer just for the camera. I think he totally pawned Olive when it came to the milkshake thing too. Fruit and yogurt just isn't a milkshake, it's a smoothie. I'm sure it's a delicious, healthier smoothie but it's just not a classic burger-joint style milkshake and you couldn't call it a milkshake on the menu. If someone wants to get a milkshake when they go out to a cheap burger joint then let them indulge in that milkshake. Oliver doesn't seem to get the business aspects of running an indie burger place. It's not Hero burger gourmet burgers or one of his high-end London restaurants.

I'm also really not surprised that they don't want to let Oliver into the schools. I absolutely want to see activism focused on improving school food, but Oliver's methods are just so chaotic. It doesn't surprise me that a larger school board doesn't want him because the way he goes into a school is extremely chaotic and disruptive. It's like he really goes out of his way to create conflicts and be as disagreeable, argumentative and offend as many people as he can. He really upsets the cafeteria workers a lot and has been horrible to them in the past. He screws with their budgets so that when he's gone and they're on there own, they don't have enough money left to feed the kids for the rest of the semester. The other thing is that he gets the parents all worked up without discussing some financial and political realities, like how limited the budgets are and the lobbying powers of industries like corn and dairy. Then all these worked-up parents are going and complaining to the poor cafeteria workers and school principals who really don't have the power to change anything. Their hands are tied unless there is a substantive and systemic change in the way the American food industry works, but they will be the ones getting the heat from the parents.

All of this is just my opinion obviously.

niafabo
04-13-2011, 07:31 AM
I couldn't believe how disrespectful he was to the guy who owns the indie burger joint! I think the guy was very generous in letting Oliver come into his kitchen, the place of his bread and butter, and then he gets repaid by passive-aggressive comments like "am I wasting my time here?". I have a lot of respect for that guy. He didn't back down, he was blunt and honest and he didn't try to give a diplomatic answer just for the camera. I think he totally pawned Olive when it came to the milkshake thing too. Fruit and yogurt just isn't a milkshake, it's a smoothie. I'm sure it's a delicious, healthier smoothie but it's just not a classic burger-joint style milkshake and you couldn't call it a milkshake on the menu. If someone wants to get a milkshake when they go out to a cheap burger joint then let them indulge in that milkshake. Oliver doesn't seem to get the business aspects of running an indie burger place. It's not Hero burger gourmet burgers or one of his high-end London restaurants.


I thought the restraunt dude was extremely rude. You best believe he let Oliver in because he knows that it's free national advertising not because he is a good guy. The man was extremely stubborn and close minded and wouldn't change a single thing about the menu but still let Oliver keep the cameras on the resteraunt no problem. I could understand the burgers but the milkshake thing was rediculous believe it or not a very large chunk of places that make milk shakes use frozen yogurt and if it's cheaper and healthier and the customers like it so be it. If you must add ice cream okay but you don't need like 3 cups up in there the one would have been fine. If you wanna call it a smoothie who cares just put it on the menu and see if people will buy it. I couldn't believe someone could be so uncompromising.

He screws with their budgets so that when he's gone and they're on there own, they don't have enough money left to feed the kids for the rest of the semester. The other thing is that he gets the parents all worked up without discussing some financial and political realities, like how limited the budgets are and the lobbying powers of industries like corn and dairy. Then all these worked-up parents are going and complaining to the poor cafeteria workers and school principals who really don't have the power to change anything. Their hands are tied but they will get the heat from the parents.
where did you get the idea that he screws up their budget? i searched and i couldn't find anything at all that says that he does in fact i found several sources that said most of the districts he's been to continue to use the changes he's made without problem. as for parent's complaining its a good thing. they need to get mad. they need to write to their legislators. they need to make their voice heard if they want real changes to happen. that's what activism is all about and that's what you say the show needs more of. :dizzy:

alicia89
04-13-2011, 10:02 AM
You can start here: http://www.alternet.org/story/146354/how_tv_superchef_jamie_oliver%27s_%27food_revoluti on%27_flunked_out?page=entire ..but there are numerous other articles.

alicia89
04-13-2011, 10:04 AM
And yeah, my opinion is that is that Oliver treats the people he is supposed to be working with like crap. He is very condescending. The burger joint guy had every right to be uncompromising. It's his restaurant! Oliver doesn't own the place, nor did he enter into any official contract with the place.

Coondocks
04-13-2011, 12:31 PM
You can start here: http://www.alternet.org/story/146354/how_tv_superchef_jamie_oliver%27s_%27food_revoluti on%27_flunked_out?page=entire ..but there are numerous other articles.

While I agree with some points in this article, it gave me the feeling that the issue was being avoided.
Going after fast food chains, it's been tried, will always be tried and fast food chains arent in schools 5 days a week feeding kids.

Rude or not, he gets noticed and that is what is needed.

As for the gentleman that owned the restaurant, I have no more sympathy for him then I do for the people that go on Kitchen Nightmares. You've let this person into your place of business knowing full well what they are intending to do. If you want it as free publicity, fine, but when you've willing let them in - don't be spurprised when you get the same reaction you've seen them give other places.
Just my opinion.

not living in the USA, I honestly have to ask this - with everything seeming to come down to budgeting, what is the reason for not increasing it? This is the future of a nation and Ive never seen a reason why funding can go to art grants, ridiculously high paid athletes, politicians etc but they aren't willing to help foster a healthier future. It's really sad.
My question is not meant to instigate or offend, Im genuinely curious if there has been a reason other than 'funding isnt available' - why isnt it being made avaialbe or is no one told that?

iaradajnos
04-13-2011, 02:28 PM
I've watched J Oliver's program about a restaurant with unskilled newbie would-be chefs (called "15" I think). I also watched the last US season of the Food Revolution. I have a great affection for the man.

Professionally, though I watch his tactics and strategies with a lot of frustration. I work for a city that has changed over the last ten years due to a huge alliance of experts, community leaders, and organizations. It was slow and very persistent change within and respectful of the schools, government and area restaurants. A major US foundation is behind the respectability of the program which brought in the initial participation of my city and we now house the program staff.

Jamie's expecting miracles in places that he has no relationship, apparently no community allies, and brinkmanship. The school and prison systems are kept on extremely lean budgets. The federal government is practically owned by the beef and dairy industry who palm off extremely horrible product to prisons and schools. However, the only way to really make change is through comprehensive alliances from the whole spectrum of the local community with a well-funded staff to accomplish all the admin, promotion, and organizing.

Jamie's efforts do not seem sustainable and undermines the efforts of those folks in the community that have been working on this. They could have told him who's who, what's what, history, the needs and challenges, and everything. Do-gooders with no skills, knowledge or awareness of collaboration and organization are really unfortunate to the causes they support.

I'll keep watching but I'm not sure how long I'll last as I can't ignore my background just for good tv. It's why I can't watch Biggest Loser. I can't see that its healthy or sustainable for the participants and it's too much forced drama.

cbmare
04-13-2011, 02:54 PM
not living in the USA, I honestly have to ask this - with everything seeming to come down to budgeting, what is the reason for not increasing it? This is the future of a nation and Ive never seen a reason why funding can go to art grants, ridiculously high paid athletes, politicians etc but they aren't willing to help foster a healthier future. It's really sad.
My question is not meant to instigate or offend, Im genuinely curious if there has been a reason other than 'funding isnt available' - why isnt it being made avaialbe or is no one told that?

There are school measures on the ballots everytime there is an election. The problem is it is never for the cafeteria or food programs (at least around here). Even if it passed, the funds would be tied up at the administrative level. In our area, the administration is top heavy and the funds don't make it down to the classrooms.

As an aside regarding ridiculously high paid athletes - I don't understand why the teams want the taxpayers to foot the bill for ball parks, stadiums and/or arenas when they pay these glorified prima donna millions of $ a game. Keep back 1 Mil per player and they'd have the facility paid for in 1 year. Sure you can't take it back now that they are under contract, but think of the next prima donna and pay that guy less. Every team would be required to participate.

Coondocks
04-13-2011, 03:30 PM
There are school measures on the ballots everytime there is an election. The problem is it is never for the cafeteria or food programs (at least around here). Even if it passed, the funds would be tied up at the administrative level. In our area, the administration is top heavy and the funds don't make it down to the classrooms.

As an aside regarding ridiculously high paid athletes - I don't understand why the teams want the taxpayers to foot the bill for ball parks, stadiums and/or arenas when they pay these glorified prima donna millions of $ a game. Keep back 1 Mil per player and they'd have the facility paid for in 1 year. Sure you can't take it back now that they are under contract, but think of the next prima donna and pay that guy less. Every team would be required to participate.


Thank you, I appreciate the response.

Athletes, well that's just a huge pet peeve of mine, regardless of country. Police, Firefighters, paramedics, teachers, nurses, military . . . these are the people that deserve more than what they are getting. They give selflessly to a greater good in my opinion. I am also the one that gets effin irritated when I see these athletes 'endorse' after school programs, nutrition etc for the younger generations, but except for a few, none of them are willing to do anything but put their name on it and add their face to a commercial. Write a big fat check if you're that concerned.
Ok way off topic there . . . .

niafabo
04-13-2011, 03:56 PM
You can start here: http://www.alternet.org/story/146354/how_tv_superchef_jamie_oliver%27s_%27food_revoluti on%27_flunked_out?page=entire ..but there are numerous other articles.

Okay sorry I didn't get back to you sooner but that author went on and on and on and on and I was working so I didn't have the time to read it in its entirety until now.

First of all the author seems extremely bias. I write blogs and articles for a living and I can see that less than three paragraphs in and I'm how any reader can not recognize that.

Second of all the author controdicts themselves. First they say that according to some document that isn't shown or referenced anywhere except vaguely to the government site says they were way over budget but ABC covered the costs and then they say that the school was saddled with unmanageable expenses. If ABC was covering the costs then the school would not be having that problem. If you look at the school menu you will see that a lot of his changes have actually stuck although they have made a few days for some of the more high calorie favorites like mac and cheese and pizza.

Jamie is already trying to begin to tackle the fast food issue so I guess the author should be happy about that although I doubt he will make much difference on the national level.

The comment about him showing the people how much they eat another pointless point since they have been doing that on british television for awhile in fact one of my favorite BBC programs You Are What You Eat has used it effectively for years. People need to be shocked into making changes their health is far more important then their feelings.

The School's aren't doing that bad thing obviously false so not even going to comment.

Yes schools should get more funding for lunches...

Liability excuses....

If kids don't want to drink their milk who cares give them regular milk or they can drink water. Sooner or later they will stop acting spoiled and drink their milk.

The governments standards in regards to foods are appauling so I'm not going to go off of that. They consider ketchup a vegetable for petesake.

Finally, the author admits at the end that they have no idea how many kids actually dropped out of the program, that he did have a positive affect on the school, and basically shouted outraged that he was getting all of the attention.

In short: Bias other who thinks he could of done better.

By the way check out the author's other lovel articles; More Pain for Devastated Haiti: Under the Pretense of Disaster Relief, U.S. Running a Military Occupation, Tsunami and Nuke Disaster: How Human Arrogance Intensifies Suffering, and Hate and Violence Are Encoded in the DNA of the American Right. :/

cbmare
04-13-2011, 04:04 PM
Are the soda companies still paying for the right to have their machines in the schools? I know there was some whoopla a few years ago about this. Seems Pepsi was winning the battle and had their soda and snack machines in the schools. The schools got a nice check out of that program. Whatcha wanna bet that not one red cent of that money went to the food program?

niafabo
04-13-2011, 04:16 PM
Are the soda companies still paying for the right to have their machines in the schools? I know there was some whoopla a few years ago about this. Seems Pepsi was winning the battle and had their soda and snack machines in the schools. The schools got a nice check out of that program. Whatcha wanna bet that not one red cent of that money went to the food program?

I don't know about the rest of the country but in Arizona they were allowed to keep the soda and snack machines but they couldn't sell soda or candy so they were filled with juice, tea, and sports drinks, and nuts, pretzles, cookies, crackers, beef jerky and the like.

alicia89
04-13-2011, 04:36 PM
I think the article has some bias but still raises a lot of excellent points. Any article is going to have quite a bit of bias, including articles that are just praising how great and awesome Oliver's revolution. And yeah, he is a very left-wing author so obviously the titles of his other articles demonstrate where is is on the political spectrum but I don't entirely see how that discredits all of the valid points he has made about flaws in Oliver's approach. I think we are probably in totally different spots politically so that is probably where the disconnect is but I don't want to get into politics on a diet forum. However, I don't see why you are so disbelieving of the fact that that Oliver massively screwed up the school's budget. This isn't some random sketchy fact that the guy drew out of thin air, it was a direct document from the school board as well as verbal testimony from members of the school board and people at the school. Sorry, but I just can't stand Oliver love fests because at times I feel that he does more harm than good. I know, I know, at least it's good that he is bringing awareness to the issues, but I feel that issues are being eclipsed in favour of making good reality tv, stroking Oliver's ego and playing into his persecution complex. That bothers me immensely. We'll just have to agree to disagree. :) I am still looking forward to watching the rest of the season.

niafabo
04-13-2011, 05:03 PM
I think the article has some bias but still raises a lot of excellent points. Any article is going to have quite a bit of bias, including articles that are just praising how great and awesome Oliver's revolution. And yeah, he is a very left-wing author so obviously the titles of his other articles demonstrate where is is on the political spectrum but I don't entirely see how that discredits all of the valid points he has made about flaws in Oliver's approach. I think we are probably in totally different spots politically so that is probably where the disconnect is but I don't want to get into politics on a diet forum. However, I don't see why you are so disbelieving of the fact that that Oliver massively screwed up the school's budget. This isn't some random sketchy fact that the guy drew out of thin air, it was a direct document from the school board as well as verbal testimony from members of the school board and people at the school. Sorry, but I just can't stand Oliver love fests because at times I feel that he does more harm than good. I know, I know, at least it's good that he is bringing awareness to the issues, but I feel that issues are being eclipsed in favour of making good reality tv, stroking Oliver's ego and playing into his persecution complex. That bothers me immensely. We'll just have to agree to disagree. :) I am still looking forward to watching the rest of the season.

I'm neither left nor right I'm right in the middle so I can't really be on the opposite end of the spectrum from anyone unless they are completey not interested in politics. I addressed the issue you said I was in denial about in my response which I get the feeling you didn't really read. Yes we will just have to agree to disagree although we both agreed the authors bias. :/

DixC Chix
04-13-2011, 06:12 PM
I would like to see some studies on any improvement of health in the children at these schools. Without some real feedback on health, all he is trying to do is change what kids should prefer to eat by his standards.

I feel the main gist of the article is a lot of b!tching and no real suggestions for solutions. Many, many people can find fault with just about anything but to put forth any substantive ideas takes real thought. The only suggestion this guy had was to throw more money at the problem.

This is a complex problem with so many near and far ranging effects that no one will solve it on a TV show. It is first and foremost entertainment not a documentary. Much like any other reality show, conflict = drama. Many of the things he says and does is for affect much like the trainers on TBL or a Bible thumper at a revival. Jamie nor Gordon Ramsey are not as big of a$$es 'as shown on TV'!

No one can deny his program has inspired dialog on the subject which is a start.

alicia89
04-13-2011, 07:53 PM
I read every word of your response, and I think it's unfair of you to accuse me of not reading or listening. Nor did I every say anything so nasty as "you are in denial", so don't put words into my mouth that I didn't say. I expressed surprise that you were so skeptical of testimony from multiple people who are saying that Oliver was horribly over-budget. In your response you said that "they say that according to some document that isn't shown or referenced anywhere except vaguely to the government site says they were way over budget but ABC covered the costs and then they say that the school was saddled with unmanageable expenses. If ABC was covering the costs then the school would not be having that problem."

To me those words seemed to be implying that you think the document referenced is sketchy or possibly even fabricated. The article says that this information was obtained from a document issued directly from the Virgina board of education. You are certainly right that the document is not linked, but my guess is that alternet probably didn't have the permission to publish the document on their website or make it public. Not all internal school board documents and reports are always made available to the public, but sometimes relevant individuals like politicians, academics or members of the media may be given access to them even if the document is not available to the wider public. Of course it is ideal and important for journalists to list all of their sources, but this doesn't always happen in journalism when the documents are not in public domain. The reader has to assume journalistic integrity that the journalist is not fabricating sources or documents. of course if you don't trust the author's integrity or think he is too biased then of course you are free to disbelieve. Even if you think the budget document is entirely fake or untrue, there is still verbal testimony from several sources and school officials stating that Jamie screwed up their budget. So are those people lying too? If you don't believe that any of that is true then of course that is your right. I completely agree that obviously the budgets are pathetic and that many of the nutritional/caloric governmental guidelines are garbage, but the problem is that Jamie came in with organic chicken and tomatoes and tried to act as if any school could feed the kids that on the school budget if they just worked a bit harder. Totally disingenous considering that NBC was actually paying for much of the food.

And yes, I do think we are in very different places politically, since you made a sarcastic remark about the titles of other articles on the website like "U.S. Running A Military Occuption" (umm aren't they?) and "Hate and Violence Are Encoded in the DNA of the American Right". Btw, I'm not an American, so I don't have a bone in any american political discussion, but I do follow American politics very closely (because it's so much more interesting and dramatic than ours, largely because it's so polarized), and yes, I would agree that much (NOT ALL, I know there are plenty of lovely conservatives), but much of the american right is full of bigotry, prejudice, hate and violence, in my opinion. Have you seen vidoes like this: http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/03/shocking-anti-muslim-hate-video-in-orange-county-california/ ?? This is a sentiment that is shared by many (again, NOT ALL), but many Canadians, as well many people in european countries, australia etc who are on the outside looking in at american politics. Of course, no developed country has any right to cast stones, we're all complicit in most of the world's problems, but I don't think it hurts Americans to at least be aware of how most people in other countries view their politics. And now I'm sure I've opened a can of worms, lol..

Anyways, we both disagree and it's just a silly tv show so I don't think I am going to continue debating it. Thank you for sharing your viewpoint and I do respect what you had to say. Have a great night!

niafabo
04-13-2011, 09:36 PM
Didn't see any reference to these people's testimony that you keep talking about? Where are the references? They aren't in the article. The author doesn't quote any people? Doesn't say who said it. As far as I know the site isn't a major news network and most of its articles come from independent writers.

It's a TV show I expect them to be paying for everything including the kitchens.

All of those titles are clearly someones personal opinion. If you take things out of context and ignor the whole picture it's very easy to argue that almost anything is true. And I'm surprised you aren't American you certainly talk like one (no offence intended since I am one).

You too!

NiteNicole
04-13-2011, 11:17 PM
I am really very passionate about the state of "food" in this country - everything from what's happened to all the plant sources to what our kids are eating in school. It's hard to find ACTUAL FOOD and our lives are so busy that when we can find it, who has time to cook it! I'm even a Jamie Oliver fan but I still found the last show way too contrived and staged to take seriously. I think his heart is in the right place, but the show was so heavily manipulated and edited that I just could not take it seriously.

I was so excited when the first season came out, I had just read Animal, Vegetable, Miracle and Omnivore's Dilemma and several other books of that nature so I was all fired up for a total overhaul of the American diet - and I still couldn't get past how fake and contrived this show turned out to be.