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Sandman79
02-14-2011, 10:54 PM
Is there any men on here on IP or have tried it before? I have looked at the IP thread extensively but I would like to know of anybody's experiences and if it is really possibly to lose 5-7 lbs on this program. Which I know that has to be high but I really want something to jumpstart my weightloss again. So any of your advice I'd appreciate it.


JohnP
02-14-2011, 11:42 PM
I don't know what the IP diet is so I can't comment on it but if you direct me to the thread I'll be happy to give you my opinion.:D

Hopefully you know there is no magic bullet, no special pill, no fairy dust and especially no special diet plan. If you're not losing weight then you're eating too much. Calories matter.

My suggestion is to find is a dietary plan that works for you. Some people do great with low carb, others not. Some people like to count calories, others not. Most guys like to eat meat, alot. If you're like that and you don't want to count caloires I'd look into paleo or atkins.

BillBlueEyes
02-15-2011, 05:05 AM
The Ideal Protein Diet Forum on 3FC (http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/ideal-protein-diet-236/) has an active and devoted following to be sure. My take is that it would be a great diet for a guy - as in too much protein certainly appeals to me personally.

If you do it, let us know how it works out.


JohnP
02-15-2011, 01:27 PM
Ok I looked at it. The diet is essentially a PSMF except instead of eating all whole foods you drink plenty of protein.

The writing about the IP diet is very misleading. It goes into a lot of marketing crap that is for the most part a farce. You lose weight and fast on the IP diet because you're ingesting very few caloires and has nothing to do with the ideal protein packets I'm sure cost a bundle. By glancing over the diet plan it looks to me like you'd be ingesting in the neighborhood of 600-700 calories a day. Here is a good example of the faulty science I saw after a few seconds of reading:

"It is important to understand that the minute carbohydrates are consumed, they are broken down into glucose in the bloodstream, and then whatever is not needed immediately for energy is swooped up by insulin, converted into fat and stored."

This is true, in rats. In humans carbohydrates are almost never converted into fat and when they are the amount is so small it is insignifigent. I'm not against following a PSMF for a short period but I wouldn't reccomend you do something like this without consulting a Dr first. If you're going to do one take a look at "Rapid Fat Loss" by Lyle Mcdonald. It is much better than the IP diet and there are no expensive supplements to buy.

Sandman79
02-15-2011, 06:31 PM
John and Bill thanks for your comments. I am one of those people that have tried every diet possible and lifestyle changes. Last summer I started being serious about being healthier and losing the weight. I have lost several inches and 27 lbs. since last summer. I'm way healthier than I use to be. Since last summer, I have started eating more organic stuff, smaller portions, 3 meals and 2 snacks, and every other thing that you could possibly do. I really want to lose about twenty more lbs. so my legs don't hurt so much when I run. I cut my calorie intake from 2000 to about 1200 calories. I'm going to check out the PMSF stuff and the book you suggested. Thank you guys for your comments and support. Its nice to have a men's page now.

juiceman11
02-22-2011, 03:23 PM
You are correct, John, IP is expensive, but does work in helping the body lose fat quickly. Also in talking with my primary care physician who is not involved with IP, but who did the diet for 4 months does say and agrees with some of finds of IP regarding insulin resistance and giving your pancreas a break.

Do you agree with getting your body into Ketosis to burn fat stores?

I feel I have lost little to no muscle mass while being on this program. I do not feel weaker and plan to add in weight training.

What is "PMSF"?

In the end, it takes a lifestyle change after any diet or program to see continued health and weight benefits. I have plans for this after I am done. Going from 289 to 250 in 6 weeks is great for me. I plan to do this for an additional 6 weeks and phase off and start to eat responsibly.

I think I will post more here as I have "ruffled" a few feathers in the IP forum. I have family members in the IP forum that are seasoned and just starting out.

Good luck to everyone in their different journey's.

JohnP
02-22-2011, 07:29 PM
You are correct, John, IP is expensive, but does work in helping the body lose fat quickly. Also in talking with my primary care physician who is not involved with IP, but who did the diet for 4 months does say and agrees with some of finds of IP regarding insulin resistance and giving your pancreas a break.

Do you agree with getting your body into Ketosis to burn fat stores?

I feel I have lost little to no muscle mass while being on this program. I do not feel weaker and plan to add in weight training.

What is "PMSF"?

In the end, it takes a lifestyle change after any diet or program to see continued health and weight benefits. I have plans for this after I am done. Going from 289 to 250 in 6 weeks is great for me. I plan to do this for an additional 6 weeks and phase off and start to eat responsibly.

I think I will post more here as I have "ruffled" a few feathers in the IP forum. I have family members in the IP forum that are seasoned and just starting out.

Good luck to everyone in their different journey's.

Insulin resistance varies by genetics but everyone becomes more insulin resistant when they become obese and more insulin sensative by losing weight. As for giving your pancreas a break that shows how little doctors typically know about nutrition and diet.

The idea that Ketosis is necessary to burn fat is completely false. The energy deficit is what causes the fat loss. Ketosis is an adaptation the body makes to help prevent muscle catobolism. You lost 40 lbs because of a gigantic caloric deficit. As for muscle loss, it is possible you lost no muscle but how do you know? The best way to prevent muscle loss is a well designed lifting program.

PSMF stands for protein sparing modified fast which is what obeseity researchers came up with as a means to help the serverely overweight loss fat as fast as possible while retaining as much muscle as possible. IP diet is a form of PSFM with plenty of good marketing. Nothing really wrong with it except that it doesn't really educate you because if you did you wouldn't spend another penny on their protein packets or the other over priced supplements I'm sure they sell.

Regardless of wether it is the best PSMF or not it obviously works. Congrats on losing 40 lbs!

Resolute
02-22-2011, 07:39 PM
Insulin resistance varies by genetics but everyone becomes more insulin resistant when they become obese and more insulin sensative by losing weight. As for giving your pancreas a break that shows how little doctors typically know about nutrition and diet.

The idea that Ketosis is necessary to burn fat is completely false. The energy deficit is what causes the fat loss. Ketosis is an adaptation the body makes to help prevent muscle catobolism. You lost 40 lbs because of a gigantic caloric deficit. As for muscle loss, it is possible you lost no muscle but how do you know? The best way to prevent muscle loss is a well designed lifting program.

PSMF stands for protein sparing modified fast which is what obeseity researchers came up with as a means to help the serverely overweight loss fat as fast as possible while retaining as much muscle as possible. IP diet is a form of PSFM with plenty of good marketing. Nothing really wrong with it except that it doesn't really educate you because if you did you wouldn't spend another penny on their protein packets or the other over priced supplements I'm sure they sell.

Regardless of wether it is the best PSMF or not it obviously works. Congrats on losing 40 lbs!



I tend to agree with everything you say John, the best way to lose weight and keep it off is by finding something that you can live with forever, fad diets work but as soon as you revert it's right back to the same thing.

I eat all the foods under the sun , i simply count the calories and don't go crazy on any one thing, like you said it's all about burning the gas you put in the tank before you fill it up again, as simple as that.

chris250
02-22-2011, 10:07 PM
Ok I looked at it. The diet is essentially a PSMF except instead of eating all whole foods you drink plenty of protein. I already had a post deleted for reccomending someone do a PSMF so I am pretty shocked that there is an entire section devoted to a less intelligent version than I was reccomending.

The writing about the IP diet is very misleading. It goes into a lot of marketing crap that is for the most part a farce. You lose weight and fast on the IP diet because you're ingesting very few caloires and has nothing to do with the ideal protein packets I'm sure cost a bundle. By glancing over the diet plan it looks to me like you'd be ingesting in the neighborhood of 600-700 calories a day. Here is a good example of the faulty science I saw after a few seconds of reading:

"It is important to understand that the minute carbohydrates are consumed, they are broken down into glucose in the bloodstream, and then whatever is not needed immediately for energy is swooped up by insulin, converted into fat and stored."

This is true, in rats. In humans carbohydrates are almost never converted into fat and when they are the amount is so small it is insignifigent. I'm not against following a PSMF for a short period but I wouldn't reccomend you do something like this without consulting a Dr first. If you're going to do one take a look at "Rapid Fat Loss" by Lyle Mcdonald. It is much better than the IP diet and there are no expensive supplements to buy.

Interesting that many hospitals and doctors recommend this diet. My doctor, for example, has done so for one of his patients. My brother's doctor recommended it as an alternative to lap-band.

I'm curious about your what credentials. Doctor? Nutritionist?

juiceman11
02-23-2011, 12:07 AM
Insulin resistance varies by genetics but everyone becomes more insulin resistant when they become obese and more insulin sensative by losing weight. As for giving your pancreas a break that shows how little doctors typically know about nutrition and diet.

The idea that Ketosis is necessary to burn fat is completely false. The energy deficit is what causes the fat loss. Ketosis is an adaptation the body makes to help prevent muscle catobolism. You lost 40 lbs because of a gigantic caloric deficit. As for muscle loss, it is possible you lost no muscle but how do you know? The best way to prevent muscle loss is a well designed lifting program.

PSMF stands for protein sparing modified fast which is what obeseity researchers came up with as a means to help the serverely overweight loss fat as fast as possible while retaining as much muscle as possible. IP diet is a form of PSFM with plenty of good marketing. Nothing really wrong with it except that it doesn't really educate you because if you did you wouldn't spend another penny on their protein packets or the other over priced supplements I'm sure they sell.

Regardless of wether it is the best PSMF or not it obviously works. Congrats on losing 40 lbs!

I too question your information and credentials....just using your math from a previous post as follows, it does not add up for me with your logic. Here are the numbers used.

3600cals per lb
I have lost 40 lbs
6 weeks = 42 days
40 lbs * 3600 cal/lb = 144000 cals
144000 cals / 42 days = 3428 cal deficit each day! I could not possibly do that. I took this from the example of the person wanting to lose 36 lbs in 11 weeks that you talked about.

My IP plan is a very low calorie, low fat, very low carb and high protein program. Maybe I get 1000 cals a day, so yes the fact of less in and more out will help me lose weight and lowering the fat content will help too. Ketosis will help my body keep the muscle I have and burn fat that I have stored. Ketosis is not essential to losing fat, no one said that. IP program puts your body into this state and protects your muscle mass. Atkins diet does this too if followed correctly. Eating more proteins help guard against muscle loss too. Most of my fat I have is in my mid section and this is where I have lost 95% of my inches and have dropped from a size 42 snug fitting jeans to a loose fitting size 36 size jeans.

I do not contribute this to very much fluid loss as I drink over 128-160 oz of water a day along with a few cups of coffee. I am losing fat as my body fat is somewhat measured each WI and has steadily dropped. I can't vouch for the accuracy of the measurement of %BF but it decreases each week.

Yes this plan is expensive, but I am looking into alternatives for this. I am also getting a trainer to assist me in getting back into a solid gym/workout routine after a few more lbs are gone and I up my calorie intake.

I question your knowledge on this subject of IP and or diet and nutrition. It clearly is working for many people everywhere. I think we should be supportive in everyone's efforts here.

My father in law has lost over 130 lbs in 8.5 months on this plan, his wife 60 lbs. His numbers come out to be 1835 per day deficit per your math. He also took a week of protocol and has not been following it as strict this last month as he is close to his goal.

The plan does educate you and gives you plenty of time to think about what you are putting into your body. It gives you tools to maintain your weight without product. There are phases you go through that help retrain your eating habits and how you combine foods. So yes it is educational and helpful.

This got a bit long winded and I apologize for that. I do not want the ppl on IP to be discouraged by your comments. Yes it is expensive but that is a choice we have to make in taking this program on. If you are not a doctor, I find it hard to believe you are saying that doctors know little or nothing about diet and nutrition.

Good luck in your journey. Hope you win your $200 prize. I am in a similar competition with 3 other friends all losing with different methods during a year long challenge. I am looking forward to my $800 payday and a much healthier lifestyle.

JohnP
02-23-2011, 02:44 AM
Interesting that many hospitals and doctors recommend this diet. My doctor, for example, has done so for one of his patients. My brother's doctor recommended it as an alternative to lap-band.

I'm curious about your what credentials. Doctor? Nutritionist?

You're misreading what I'm saying. IP diet is a PSMF and a great alternative to lap-band. I am pro PSMF as a means for obese people to lose weight fast or even an overweight person wanting to kickstart a more moderate diet.

What I am against is that people think the IP diet is some kind of magic because of their "ideal protein packets" and other (I assume) overpriced supplements. I am also against their faulty science.

I am also against over supplementing with protein powder in general and feel people who are doing PSMF type of diets would be much better off with whole foods because eating whole foods teaches you better habits which you will need when you stop following the IP diet.

As for credentials I don't have any. If you would like to dispuit anything I am saying I will be happy to cite scientific evidence.

JohnP
02-23-2011, 03:21 AM
Here are the numbers used.

3600cals per lb
I have lost 40 lbs
6 weeks = 42 days
40 lbs * 3600 cal/lb = 144000 cals
144000 cals / 42 days = 3428 cal deficit each day! I could not possibly do that. I took this from the example of the person wanting to lose 36 lbs in 11 weeks that you talked about.

I do not contribute this to very much fluid loss as I drink over 128-160 oz of water a day along with a few cups of coffee. I am losing fat as my body fat is somewhat measured each WI and has steadily dropped. I can't vouch for the accuracy of the measurement of %BF but it decreases each week.

I question your knowledge on this subject of IP and or diet and nutrition. It clearly is working for many people everywhere. I think we should be supportive in everyone's efforts here.

I apologize if I seem unsupportive. The reason I don't like the IP diet is that you can follow a PSMF that doesn't cost any money other than buying a book. As I mentioned in a previous post Lyle McDonald sells a version called "Rapid Fat Loss" with no expensive supplements and detailed A-Z instructions with no faulty science. I tend to over react to faulty science and I always overreact to overpriced supplements.

As for your numbers - no disrespect you have not actually lost 40 lbs of fat. You have lost 40 lbs of weight. Regardless of how much water you drink while following a PSMF you always lose water weight because you're not ingesting carbs. If you haven't been lifting than you have also lost muscle. What the breakdown is would be anyone's guess but I would assume 5-6 of those lose lbs are water. Possibly more.

It is 3500 calories per lb of fat. The numbers are the numbers. Assuming a 35lb loss of fat you had a deficit of 2900 calories a day. Even Taubes who is a low carb zealot (or nutjob depending on your opinion) wouldn't argue that the IP diet or any other diet allows the laws of thermodynamics to be broken. So either you've lost less fat than you thought or you have a faster metabolism than you thought.

Again, please don't take this as me being unsupportive. I'm not intending to be even the slightest bit negative.

juiceman11
02-23-2011, 09:29 AM
I apologize if I seem unsupportive. The reason I don't like the IP diet is that you can follow a PSMF that doesn't cost any money other than buying a book. As I mentioned in a previous post Lyle McDonald sells a version called "Rapid Fat Loss" with no expensive supplements and detailed A-Z instructions with no faulty science. I tend to over react to faulty science and I always overreact to overpriced supplements.

As for your numbers - no disrespect you have not actually lost 40 lbs of fat. You have lost 40 lbs of weight. Regardless of how much water you drink while following a PSMF you always lose water weight because you're not ingesting carbs. If you haven't been lifting than you have also lost muscle. What the breakdown is would be anyone's guess but I would assume 5-6 of those lose lbs are water. Possibly more.

It is 3500 calories per lb of fat. The numbers are the numbers. Assuming a 35lb loss of fat you had a deficit of 2900 calories a day. Even Taubes who is a low carb zealot (or nutjob depending on your opinion) wouldn't argue that the IP diet or any other diet allows the laws of thermodynamics to be broken. So either you've lost less fat than you thought or you have a faster metabolism than you thought.

Again, please don't take this as me being unsupportive. I'm not intending to be even the slightest bit negative.


Thank you for your reply. I am not under the assumption I have lost all 40lbs of fat, I know this, but still think the majority of this weight is fat loss in a rapid manner. I wholeheartedly agree anyone needs the deficit of calories to lose weight. I do question how you think this diet breaks the laws of Thermodynamics, as I am experience with Thermodynamics being an engineer and these "laws" just can't really be "broken".

Thank you for your opinions and I appreciate words for the other side. I cannot really judge how much if any muscle mass I have lost, but know the areas where I have decent muscle mass, my arms, thighs and calves have only lost 2 inches combined in these areas where as my mid section has significantly lost inches and size.

Thanks again.

chris250
02-23-2011, 12:05 PM
You're misreading what I'm saying. IP diet is a PSMF and a great alternative to lap-band. I am pro PSMF as a means for obese people to lose weight fast or even an overweight person wanting to kickstart a more moderate diet.

What I am against is that people think the IP diet is some kind of magic because of their "ideal protein packets" and other (I assume) overpriced supplements. I am also against their faulty science.

Overpriced? I guess that depends on the importance of the result. I, for one, need the strict regimen these packets provide. Further, though I don't like the taste of lots of choices there are many I truly do enjoy.

As for "faulty science", please provide supporting evidence for that comment.


I am also against over supplementing with protein powder in general and feel people who are doing PSMF type of diets would be much better off with whole foods because eating whole foods teaches you better habits which you will need when you stop following the IP diet.

By whole foods do you mean something like 4 cups of low-glycemic vegetables and low-fat meats? :D

As for protein powder supplements, the drinks can be construed as that though there's usually just one of those per day. The rest of the packets (along with those) are soy-based. That, combined with the amount of water ingested seems to be a fairly solid program.


As for credentials I don't have any. If you would like to dispuit anything I am saying I will be happy to cite scientific evidence.

Nothing wrong with that. I simply asked because your statements seem pretty strong and were, I assumed, backed by formal training. Still, I'd like to see the evidence you speak of.

I'd bet good money that bodybuilders who are readying for competition following a regimen very much like this one.

JohnP
02-23-2011, 01:15 PM
As for "faulty science", please provide supporting evidence for that comment.

Nothing wrong with that. I simply asked because your statements seem pretty strong and were, I assumed, backed by formal training. Still, I'd like to see the evidence you speak of.


Faulty science example: "It is important to understand that the minute carbohydrates are consumed, they are broken down into glucose in the bloodstream, and then whatever is not needed immediately for energy is swooped up by insulin, converted into fat and stored."

This is not true in humans. (http://www.ajcn.org/content/74/6/737.full)

That's a long article that discusses a well designed and controlled study where they overfed massive amounts of carbohydrates to lean and obese women. It is a lot to wade through but the bottom line is this ... from the study.

"Quantitatively, however, absolute amounts of fat synthesized from carbohydrate did not represent a significant contribution to overall fat stores after 96 h of excess carbohydrate intake."

I'm happy to cite references for any claim I am making you just need to be specific as to which claim you are questioning.

chris250
02-23-2011, 03:10 PM
Faulty science example: "It is important to understand that the minute carbohydrates are consumed, they are broken down into glucose in the bloodstream, and then whatever is not needed immediately for energy is swooped up by insulin, converted into fat and stored."


From where did you get this quote? I can't find it in on either the Ideal Protein site or literature they provided.

JohnP
02-23-2011, 06:08 PM
From where did you get this quote? I can't find it in on either the Ideal Protein site or literature they provided.

http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/ideal-protein-diet/184421-ideal-protein-diet-faq.html

Post #5. Dated 2008. Glad they have figured it out.

chris250
02-24-2011, 01:12 PM
http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/ideal-protein-diet/184421-ideal-protein-diet-faq.html

Post #5. Dated 2008. Glad they have figured it out.

After reading the study I think the conclusion they gave (and you quoted) is misleading where it relates to the IP statement. Though it fits their study goal it doesn't necessarily relate to the comment mentioned in the IP info.

The study wanted to determine if there was a difference in fatty acid production due to overfeeding of carbs to lean vs. obese test subjects. This isn't really what IP had in mind.

There may be no significant fat storage in that case but I didn't see anything in the study to suggest the IP statement you quote in incorrect. I did see several comments that seem to say fat is stored from unused carb intake.

I certainly didn't understand the entire thing but gleaned what I could. Feel free to quote portions of the study where I'm wrong which wouldn't surprise me - I damn near feel asleep more than once trying to get through it. :D

JohnP
02-24-2011, 02:44 PM
There may be no significant fat storage in that case but I didn't see anything in the study to suggest the IP statement you quote in incorrect. I did see several comments that seem to say fat is stored from unused carb intake.

I certainly didn't understand the entire thing but gleaned what I could. Feel free to quote portions of the study where I'm wrong which wouldn't surprise me - I damn near feel asleep more than once trying to get through it. :D

The point of that study is that massive over feeding of carbs created no signifigant amount of fat which flys in the face of the IP statement. In the context of someone who is in a caloric deficit (as they are when they are dieting) carbs are not turned into fat. It is only after massive carb over feeding over several days that an insignifigant amount of fat is produced from carbs in humans. This guy talks about the study in simple terms and there are links to other studies that produce similar results. (http://www.ajcn.org/content/74/6/707.full) Massive carb overfeeding leads to insignifigant amounts of fat being created.

This isn't complicated. The IP statement is false. However, if you want to believe the earth is flat you can probably convince yourself of that too. (http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/)

chris250
02-24-2011, 06:27 PM
The point of that study is that massive over feeding of carbs created no signifigant amount of fat which flys in the face of the IP statement. In the context of someone who is in a caloric deficit (as they are when they are dieting) carbs are not turned into fat. It is only after massive carb over feeding over several days that an insignifigant amount of fat is produced from carbs in humans. This guy talks about the study in simple terms and there are links to other studies that produce similar results. (http://www.ajcn.org/content/74/6/707.full) Massive carb overfeeding leads to insignifigant amounts of fat being created.

This isn't complicated. The IP statement is false. However, if you want to believe the earth is flat you can probably convince yourself of that too. (http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/)

You said it yourself (highlighted). However, IP doesn't deal with or talk about "massive over-feeding" but rather eating any carbs at all. See John, IP is a diet.

midwife
02-24-2011, 10:42 PM
Hello,
This thread was started by the OP seeking information from people who are on or who have been on IP. Please review the following thread about agreeing to disagree:
http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/weight-loss-support/111599-support-policy-agree-disagree.html

Thank you for your understanding.

Heather
02-24-2011, 11:12 PM
To follow up on what midwife said.

Diet plans are a lot like politics and religion – everyone thinks that theirs is the right way. Unlike most diet sites, 3FC supports all healthy weight loss plans so we have to ‘agree to disagree’ about which is the best plan. Everyone here has a unique body and life, with different needs. What works for one person may not work for another and no one here knows what is appropriate for another member.

‘Agreeing To Disagree’ means that we acknowledge that other 3FC members have differing views and opinions on weight loss that are equally valid as our own.

The following are not permissible under our Agree To Disagree policy:

- Debating weight loss methods and plans.

- Telling another member that his/her diet plan, exercise plan, and/or food choices are unhealthy, wrong, bad or won’t work unless your opinion is specifically requested.


If you wish to support another member, please answer questions in a factual, friendly manner to the best of your ability, but do not argue or critique other’s choices or plans unless specifically requested to do so. Please do not undermine or debate what other members have chosen to do. This is a support forum, not a forum for debate. If you have a concern that a member is following a plan that may be harmful to his or her health, the correct thing to do is to PM the member privately. If you not wish to PM the member, please PM a moderator or administrator for assistance. Do not challenge the member publicly.

Posts that are argumentative or critical of other’s plans and choices will be edited or deleted.
However, please keep in mind that we do not encourage members to follow unhealthy diets. We reserve the right to remove threads and posts that promote extreme diet methods.

Thanks for understanding.

JohnP
02-25-2011, 01:49 AM
You said it yourself (highlighted). However, IP doesn't deal with or talk about "massive over-feeding" but rather eating any carbs at all. See John, IP is a diet.

I realize I often come off as a know it all jerk and I apologize if I have insulted you it is not my intention.

The point I thought we were discussing was the faulty science from their 2008 sales page where they suggest carbs are turned into fat. "It is important to understand that the minute carbohydrates are consumed, they are broken down into glucose in the bloodstream, and then whatever is not needed immediately for energy is swooped up by insulin, converted into fat and stored."

The links I have posted show that even when you massively overfeed carbs to humans only an insignifigant amount of fat is generated. I really don't understand how this is difficult to understand that the information from the 2008 IP diet page is false.

We agree IP is a diet. We also agree that it is a diet that gets results, fast. The IP diet can be a good and effective diet even while simultaneously not fully educating dieters so they will continue to purchase overpriced supplements. Those two facts are not mutually exclusive. This also does not make people who are following the IP diet stupid it just means they are willing to pay the price for convienience.

In a way it is like Jenny Craig. Now I admit I don't know exactly how Jenny works I just know that everyone I know (quite a few people) who have done Jenny have all lost weight while on Jenny and put it all back on once they left Jenny so I'm guessing they aren't into educating people too much just enough so they will buy their pre-packaged food.

Again, I apologize if I have insulted you. It was not my intent.:hug:

Ultreos
02-25-2011, 09:28 PM
Just to point out, people who have a higher weight, and body fat percentage who make drastic changes in their eating habits as in cold turkeying unhealthy habits can lose a lot of weight, very, very quickly without the loss of muscle mass, simply put the body was ready for it.

For me for example on my nutrition ideas, I lost 10, then 8, then 6 in the first 3 weeks of my attempt to begin eating entirely healthy and giving up soda and energy drinks. That's 24 pounds in 3 weeks. I was eating roughly 1600 calories a day at the time with minimal to no exercise.

My guess is that the reason such unnaturally high numbers can show up on the scale and not be having a loss of muscle mass is that there might be more to our bodies then we quite yet understand.

Because quite frankly, it is impossible to lose that much weight in a unhealthy manner when you at the same time feel great while doing it, especially six weeks in. If there were muscle mass being lost, for that long, a person wouldn't feel all that great.

I believe that in some cases, with some metabolisms and body sizes, massive numbers can in fact be possible while not losing muscle mass.

That also said, I believe that science or no, as your body shrinks, we are physically incapable of retaining as much water as we were able to before. Thus as we shrink down, the amount of stored water our bodies can keep within it also decreases. There probably isn't an exact science to it, but I'd be willing to bet if you took 30 pounds away from someone, they would be less capable of storing a number of pounds of water in their bodies anymore.

I just felt like contributing is all :)

chris250
02-25-2011, 09:58 PM
I realize I often come off as a know it all jerk and I apologize if I have insulted you it is not my intention.

The point I thought we were discussing was the faulty science from their 2008 sales page where they suggest carbs are turned into fat. "It is important to understand that the minute carbohydrates are consumed, they are broken down into glucose in the bloodstream, and then whatever is not needed immediately for energy is swooped up by insulin, converted into fat and stored."

The links I have posted show that even when you massively overfeed carbs to humans only an insignifigant amount of fat is generated. I really don't understand how this is difficult to understand that the information from the 2008 IP diet page is false.

We agree IP is a diet. We also agree that it is a diet that gets results, fast. The IP diet can be a good and effective diet even while simultaneously not fully educating dieters so they will continue to purchase overpriced supplements. Those two facts are not mutually exclusive. This also does not make people who are following the IP diet stupid it just means they are willing to pay the price for convienience.

In a way it is like Jenny Craig. Now I admit I don't know exactly how Jenny works I just know that everyone I know (quite a few people) who have done Jenny have all lost weight while on Jenny and put it all back on once they left Jenny so I'm guessing they aren't into educating people too much just enough so they will buy their pre-packaged food.

Again, I apologize if I have insulted you. It was not my intent.:hug:

It seems we're not allowed to disagree so I'll say it like this:

The study's stated results are based on "over-feeding". My point is it doesn't discuss NOT "over-feeding" or, if you like, "reasonable-feeding". I just don't like to assume anything however picky it may sound. As an aside, I'd appreciate anything you can dredge up that says:

1) excess, unused carbs don't turn to fat
2) what happens to them if #1 is true

I've just always heard/read the opposite but have no problem being re-educated.

Peace, my brother in non-fatness. :cool:

Resolute
02-25-2011, 10:58 PM
It seems we're not allowed to disagree so I'll say it like this:

The study's stated results are based on "over-feeding". My point is it doesn't discuss NOT "over-feeding" or, if you like, "reasonable-feeding". I just don't like to assume anything however picky it may sound. As an aside, I'd appreciate anything you can dredge up that says:

1) excess, unused carbs don't turn to fat
2) what happens to them if #1 is true

I've just always heard/read the opposite but have no problem being re-educated.

Peace, my brother in non-fatness. :cool:

Just what is an excess unused carb ?

If i burned through 4000 calories of energy in a day and consumed 3000 calories in carbs do you think i would gain weight ?

I personally haven't worried about anything other than numbers of calories injested vs burned and have probably averaged around 4 or 5 pounds a week since i hit my stride, not trying to be argumentative but if a 400 pound guy can lose weight by eating carbs probably anyone can.

JohnP
02-25-2011, 11:24 PM
It seems we're not allowed to disagree so I'll say it like this:

The study's stated results are based on "over-feeding". My point is it doesn't discuss NOT "over-feeding" or, if you like, "reasonable-feeding". I just don't like to assume anything however picky it may sound. As an aside, I'd appreciate anything you can dredge up that says:

1) excess, unused carbs don't turn to fat
2) what happens to them if #1 is true

I've just always heard/read the opposite but have no problem being re-educated.

Peace, my brother in non-fatness. :cool:

Under normal circumstances about 50% of carbs are used for fuel and 50% are stored as glycogen in muscles. So "excess carbs" are stored as energy to fuel muscles. It is possible to max out glycogen and when you do this over several days then and only then small amounts of carbs are converted to fat for storage in fat cells. It takes a lot of overfeeding of carbs to start up the process of de novo lipogenesis. The reason you've always heard about excess carbs turning to fat is because in rats excess carbs are rapidly turned to fat. That was big news and has been repeated over and over much like the myth that to keep the metabolism stoked you should eat every 2-3 hours. When I first started dieting I read all that crap too. It's amazing how many myths still exist.

I don't know if you looked at the link I posted it is much easier to read. Here it is again. (http://www.ajcn.org/content/74/6/707.full)

Here is another easy (for the most part) to read article (http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/nutrient-intake-nutrient-storage-and-nutrient-oxidation.html) that discusses nutrients from one of the best in the business.

JohnP
02-25-2011, 11:31 PM
Because quite frankly, it is impossible to lose that much weight in a unhealthy manner when you at the same time feel great while doing it, especially six weeks in. If there were muscle mass being lost, for that long, a person wouldn't feel all that great.

It depends on a lot of different factors. However one thing is certain - you don't feel it when you lose muscle. My legs were much stronger and larger a year ago before my injury which led to a lot of time off from any activity other than walking. Never felt a thing. :D

230to170
02-26-2011, 01:15 AM
Sandman79,

Just to stay on topic, I'm on IP. I started Jan 3 2011 and have lost about 31 lbs. The science appears sound to me, and so far, it has worked for me. Yes, it can be expensive, but I guess it's kind of a good reminder not to cheat :) However, I've actually saved money because I don't go out to eat, and I no longer buy sodas. I also reduced my IP packet purchase by replacing it with comparable shakes (AdvantEDGE, Muscle Milk Lite, most Whey Protein shakes that are under 150 cals / 4 carbs but have at least 18g of protein). There is also a comparable protein bar so I don't have to purchase the IP bars. I also bought comparable supplements that are part of the IP program like Calcium Magnesium, Multi-Vitamins, Omega 3s (or 3-6-9). The Potassium Calcium, my doctor said, is not necessary.

Speaking of Doctors, I made it a point to see my doctor about my diet. The diet itself is through health facilities only (i.e., my friend went to a nutritionist, his friend who lost 100lbs and kept it off for over a year now went to a doctor, and I went to my chiropractor). My doctor seemed to agree that the system will definitely cause rapid weight loss.

It sounds to me like you are doing a great job all on your own. It would be interesting to see what kind of weight loss you would experience under IP. I think what I like about it is the visible progress. It is very encouraging to see the scale change every morning.

Like I said, the science appears sound to me. However, it is the regimen and the visible results that seem to keep me on this diet; well, and the fact that I NEVER feel hungry (which I always did on other very low-caloric diets). Do I crave? It is more like I miss the bad foods that my body has gotten used - I think we all have that.

Anyway, I'm glad to have found this forum. I hope my post helped.


http://tickers.TickerFactory.com/ezt/t/woFKxBr/weight.png
(http://www.TickerFactory.com/weight-loss/woFKxBr/)

230to170
02-26-2011, 01:34 AM
Is there any men on here on IP or have tried it before? I have looked at the IP thread extensively but I would like to know of anybody's experiences and if it is really possibly to lose 5-7 lbs on this program. Which I know that has to be high but I really want something to jumpstart my weightloss again. So any of your advice I'd appreciate it.

Looks like I missed some of your questions, sorry.

My first week, I lost 12 lbs the morning of my first weigh-in (WI). Although, when I arrived at my chiro's office to WI, I only showed 9 lbs. Well, we are heavier in the pm than in the am, plus food and water consumption throughout the day, plus I was clothes (let's just say that I am in my bday suit when I weigh myself in the am, haha!). Following week was 7 lbs. Next was 5 lbs. Then it kind of moved slowly, but still losing weight. So, YES, you will definitely lose weight fast - a great way to "jumpstart" as you put it. Just a warning though, many folks (including myself) feel really lethargic + headaches the first and maybe even the second week. After that, your body gets used to the minimal carb intake.

If you want to try it, go for it. This seems to definitely be the place to find support and examples. Listen to those who have successfully done it.

Good luck.


http://tickers.TickerFactory.com/ezt/t/woFKxBr/weight.png
(http://www.TickerFactory.com/weight-loss/woFKxBr/)

chris250
02-26-2011, 03:14 PM
Just what is an excess unused carb ?

If i burned through 4000 calories of energy in a day and consumed 3000 calories in carbs do you think i would gain weight ?

I personally haven't worried about anything other than numbers of calories injested vs burned and have probably averaged around 4 or 5 pounds a week since i hit my stride, not trying to be argumentative but if a 400 pound guy can lose weight by eating carbs probably anyone can.

I'll use your example. What happens to the excess carbs in a case where you consume 5000 calories in a 4000 calorie burn day? Eh, nevermind - JohnP posted some links that probably show what I'm looking for.

By the way, incredible job with your weight loss!

JohnP
02-28-2011, 01:35 PM
I'll use your example. What happens to the excess carbs in a case where you consume 5000 calories in a 4000 calorie burn day? Eh, nevermind - JohnP posted some links that probably show what I'm looking for.

Did you find the answer? Carbs not used for energy are stored as glycogen, not fat. Dietary fat in a caloric excess is what causes us to accumulate fat but it is the caloric excess that is contexually key. No excess calories, (hypercaloric) no fat gain.

juiceman11
03-01-2011, 02:48 PM
How are my fellow male IP'ers doing? I will have my first WI after going to alternative products, but still strickly following IP protocol. Hope everyone is doing well and seeing great results.

Bretley
03-01-2011, 04:32 PM
Did you find the answer? Carbs not used for energy are stored as glycogen, not fat. Dietary fat in a caloric excess is what causes us to accumulate fat but it is the caloric excess that is contexually key. No excess calories, (hypercaloric) no fat gain.

Hi John, IP is based on a book by Dr. Train Tien. I'd really encourage you to read it.

http://www.trantiendiet.com/site/IMG/pdflivre_Dr_Tran.pdf

Sandman79
03-01-2011, 05:57 PM
How are my fellow male IP'ers doing? I will have my first WI after going to alternative products, but still strickly following IP protocol. Hope everyone is doing well and seeing great results.

Im still doing good, I'm using alternative products. Isopure for shakes and I'm eating another protein for lunch. I'm still losing inches and weight. I haven't worked out as much this last week bc I'm in grad school fulltime, have a small business, and I'm doing my internship right now so its been a little hectic.

crash302
06-14-2011, 10:29 PM
I am just starting a form of the IP diet. The dr I have has modified it so you do not use as many packets of food and you also eat normal food. I think you take in around 1500 calories a day. The first week I lost 12 lbs, second week 7.5 and tomorrow I have another WI that should be about 6 lbs. My family dr also has be on Xenical fat blocker pill. I lost about 12 lbs in 10 weeks on those. I think my current diet is working because I have cut out in between meals junk food. The program kind of makes you think twice about snacks because of the cost. The tracking every week also helps. My dr provides a free maint. program when you have met your goal.

kellyg53
06-21-2011, 12:15 PM
I'm starting my third week on the IP plan. I've read Dr. Chanh's book and reviewed the plan phase sheets and the science seems fairly sound although I'm certainly not an expert on the science.

One point that Chanh makes is that there is a fundamental difference between a program to lose weight and one to maintain weight; all of this is based on the role of insulin and the pancreas. His plan is losing weight with the protein supplement/low carb/low fat phase and then phasing into a more balanced approach and ending with a whole food maintenance approach. At least that is how I read it. He nowhere recommends staying in the first phase for longer than a few weeks unless you are dangerously obese and are under a Dr.'s care.

I think I will be on the plan longer than the four weeks but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

My observations thus far are:
The packets are expensive - the plan is expensive - but, that motivates me to stay OP and not cheat.
There are alternative products that can be used and I will shift to that at some point.
The packets, although expensive, are very handy when traveling. I will be out of the country for two weeks in July and plan to pack along enough packets to get me by and help me stay OP. Hopefully they'll get through Customs!
So far the plan works. I'm losing weight and am not hungry. I feel good and have better energy levels than before I started. I'm sure I can have relatively the same results with alternative products - and will begin transitioning when I return from my trip.

This obviously isn't the only way to go about losing weight but it is working for me. I'll keep you posted as things progress.

JohnP
06-21-2011, 04:18 PM
all of this is based on the role of insulin and the pancreas.

Insulin is not responsible for weight gain or weight loss. Calories are.

kellyg53
06-21-2011, 04:27 PM
John,

I'm certainly not arguing the point one way or the other, I'm merely reporting what the man writes in his book. It is fairly obvious that calories are the problem but there also seem to be other factors which vary from individual to individual in terms of the body's ability to deal with some sources of calories VS others. Chanh's point is that an over active pancreas will exacerbate the inability to lose weight, thus the effectiveness of the high protein/low carb/low fat program. I'm not defending the position one way or the other, just reporting his opinions in a rather abbreviated form.

And, as I said, so far on the program, albeit quite early on, I am losing weight; whether it is fat, muscle, or water - who knows. Give me another few weeks and I'll have better data.

thanks.

juiceman11
06-30-2011, 05:01 PM
To all those who think IP is good or bad, I say it is a wonderful program. Pricey but worth the results. You can do IP on your own without buying their products. I finally finished my journey after taking 2 months or so off the program. I started back up and headed to the finish line. I weighed today 192.6 which I have not weighed since HS over 14 years ago. I feel great and it was worth it all. I enjoy the freedom from my 104#'s I lost between dieting on my own and IP. I lost a small person. Now to keep it off and put on some muscle mass to help me maintain. Look at my photo's, the program obviously works! It worked for me. I did not realize I was that big or heavy. I guess you just get "used" to it as normal. I will never be that big again!

kellyg53
07-01-2011, 11:45 PM
Juiceman11 - what a great story! There is hope for us all! The best part is that when you get my age, you won't have had inflicted all the extra wear and tear on your body by carrying around that "small person"; your knees and feet will thank you - not to mention your heart and most of your other organs.

Best wishes on keeping the weight off.

crash302
07-24-2011, 09:54 PM
Hi,

I am on a form of the IP diet, a diet done by Dr's in Quebec Canada. It relays mostly on eating better, low cal and low carb. You have to take some protien supplements but you do not just eat those. The protien is to stop muscle loss. Since May 25th I lost over 50 lbs. You do have to see the doctor every week for weight in and to get protien. This helps me stay on track. I was doing better at the beginning but I still average about 4 lbs a week. Sometimes more.

Saskey
08-05-2011, 07:43 PM
I have struggled with my weight all my adult life, I hit 256 pounds and decided I needed to change. I started running, well actually walking but got up to running. I then read a book that changed the way I feel about food, the South Beach Diet. Now when I put something in my mouth I have a better idea of whether it is good or bad. I know that SB is only one of many diets, but I feel it is more of a lifestyle change than a diet.

How does this relate to the thread? My wife and I did the SB about 8 years ago, she is now on IP. I really don't like it for the reasons John stated. I don't think it is healthy. There were two things that really put me off 1) there was a statement that there was no such thing as a balance of carbs in a diet (Wha????) 2) My wife was told that resistance exercise would sabotage any success. The only exercise she was told was good was cardio, that if she did any resistance training her body would go into "starvation mode" and start storing more fat.

I try to eat well, lean protein with veggies and carbs that are low on the glycemic index. I also exercise, I try to get at least 30 minutes of cardio a day and weight train 3 - 5 times a week. I have been really dedicated to it for about 7 weeks and have lost 11 pounds, my weight loss has stalled but my fat % continues to go down. Isn't that what we should strive for, reducing fat?

There was a comment on the cost, IP is expensive if you buy their food and vitamins. My wife's bill is over $500 a month.

FinnSteven
10-19-2011, 05:38 PM
I have to disagree with a lot of what JohnP has posted. This thread is specifically called MEN ON IP. I'm sure intentions are good, but I dont agree with aggressively trying to talk someone out of a diet because of hearsay instead of going to the source and reading Dr. Tran's book or asking questions to folks who have been on the diet. (Both successfully and unsuccessfully and find out why.)

:dance:

But regarless of "facts", what it boils down to is:
"Does it work for me" and "What is the experience like."

And my this case, it has been a resounding YES IT WORKS FOR ME. I lose between 4-10 lbs a week (7-10 or more the first two months. An average of 5+ after that). And what's it like? I have regained my "old life" and have never eaten so healthy or so well.

I also am a type 2 diabetic who was at max meds before starting the diet (with my blood sugar levels rising) who is now on minium meds infrequently for over 2 monhts with excellent consistent levels.

I have been on Ideal Protein for about 3 months and have lost 58lbs. Without increasing my excersising and still enjoying REAL food every day.

I have been on a lot of other diets through the years... SlimFast, Nutrisystem, Jenni Craig, Weight Watchers to name a few... and nothing worked as well or as fast as Ideal Protein does for me. (Atkins actually worked for me, but I got too many headaches and the amount of fats it allowed made me uncomfortable. But I also thought it worked well.)

There is a science behind the diet which is included in the free pdf someone else posted from the doctor who started the diet. The more I read about it and WHY it worked (or didnt work) helped get my mind around how I could be successful.

I actually dont think this diet is for everyone, because it does restrict what you can eat and not everyone is able to have the willpower to do that. But the reason I think it is great for guys is because you can see results within the first week and visably feel the difference the first month. The speed of the weight loss was a huge benefit to keep motivation and dedication high.

It is working literal miracles for me and allowing me to enjoy fantastic, hearty, healthy meals every day.

If you dont believe me, feel free to check out the Facebook page I created to log my eating journey on the diet. Its just recipes with pictures that I took myself so other dieters can see real shots of exactly what the food looks like as well as how to make it. All photos and recipes are approved for Phase 1 (the starting phase) so there's no tricks of great things you cant eat until later.

Check it out.

http://www.facebook.com/idealproteinlohja

Is it expensive? Yes... but I have been so desperate to lose weight I was contemplating surgery which isnt healthy or long-term helpful. the cost vs what I have lost in weight and gained in new habits cant be measured. I also honestly feel that the higher cost is a huge motivation for not cheating. If you know that Ben & Jerrys will knock you out of ketosis and take 2-3 days to get back in, its like throwing away 6 packets or more of food. Thats a lot easier to justify when you arent paying for it.

But whatever diet you choose, I wish the best success to find something that works for you.

SteveWeare
11-06-2011, 01:58 PM
41 years old. 50lbs overweight. Type 2 diabetic. High blood pressure. Joint pain. Short of breath and energy. Doctor told me that oral diabetes meds were no longer keeping my sugars under control (avg. 240)! Insulin seemed the next stop. Consulted 67 yo father who was in same situation, advised to go on IP, lost weight and was taken off all meds.

I started 8/1/11. It was rough but I had all of the right incentives. The weight came off very quickly at first. Having the premeasured, no thought packages was truly "ideal" for me and kept me from cheating. Three weeks in, I was taken off all diabetes meds. Six weeks in off of high blood meds.

As of 11/1/11 lost 40lbs. MANY inches, nothing fits, BMI half of what it was. Did I lost muscle? Who knows, it's not like I could see it before... I sure did lose belly fat, as well as thighs, cheeks, butt, etc.

I have not felt this good in years, but the downhill slide was so progressive I never noticed how bad I felt UNTIL the weight came off and I could compare.

Total loss 40lbs. Total cost -$780. New me? Priceless!
:carrot::carrot:

leganegan
11-06-2011, 02:25 PM
Is there any men on here on IP or have tried it before? I have looked at the IP thread extensively but I would like to know of anybody's experiences and if it is really possibly to lose 5-7 lbs on this program. Which I know that has to be high but I really want something to jumpstart my weightloss again. So any of your advice I'd appreciate it.

there are men on the IP program/on this site... check the daily threads, steve from finland, and "wayward", they are extremely successful. People that aren't on the program don't understand the science behind it. It is the best program out there. But you must follow it all the way through the phases. (look at intro on daily IP threads, you can read Dr. Tran's book about the program.)

The key to this program is phasing off properly so you maintain and don't gain weight back. it teaches you how to food combine properly. I have lost 40lbs and have never felt better and I know that I won't gain back because of all the guidance and the understanding of the pancreas and insulin secretion. Definitely send one of the guys that is on the IP Forum a personal message, or post your question on the daily thread so all the regulars will see it. :)
You won't regret it if you decide to go with IP. You can also buy alternatives intstead of spending the money to purchase IP food, a lot of people are equally successful using their own bars, shakes or ordering IP items like oatmeal, cereal, etc. on the Nashua site,

tykesplace
11-06-2011, 03:08 PM
I'll be 43 in Jan. I've been on IP for 7 weeks and have lost 50 lbs. Staying on track I'll be down another 60 by my birthday. My goal is to be 240 lbs. I should be able to get there by end of March.
I wasn't on any meds but I was a risk for T2 and hypertension. Cholesterol was fine. But I thought I was doing ok. I'm physically strong so I figured I was handling my weight. However that confidence has been fading as I got older and my weight crept over 400 lbs. I'm still fat at 365 but I'm feeling so much better. I walk faster, I'm not winded after stairs, I sleep better, and I play with my kids more. I'm looking forward to activities that I couldn't do before. I want to try skiing next winter. I'm riding my bike again. Going for walks with my kids. All very good things.
I'm learning to consider what I eat and how my body handles those foods. I'm learning new recipes and ingredients (Thanks to FinnSteve for some of those). Sure I could go a different weight loss route but this one is working for me.

SalmoTrutta
11-26-2011, 02:18 PM
Greetings- Newbee here. I actually joined because of this thread. JohnP, can you or anyone share a link or a plan for the PSMF method of diet that I can look at? Being new, there may be a link somewhere on the site, but I have not found it. I was on a similar plan this past winter for about 5 months which I have now lapsed from but was able to lose 60 lbs. Thanks-

JohnP
11-26-2011, 06:51 PM
Greetings- Newbee here. I actually joined because of this thread. JohnP, can you or anyone share a link or a plan for the PSMF method of diet that I can look at? Being new, there may be a link somewhere on the site, but I have not found it. I was on a similar plan this past winter for about 5 months which I have now lapsed from but was able to lose 60 lbs. Thanks-

The PSMF I would suggest you look at is "Rapid Fat Loss".

SalmoTrutta
11-27-2011, 11:27 PM
Is there a link for that? "Rapid Fat Loss"? Thanks-

SalmoTrutta
11-27-2011, 11:33 PM
Ok, I did a little web searching and found some resources. Thanks again-

dburroughs93
03-13-2013, 01:57 AM
I went fir my first meeting with IP today. It is costly but what isnt. I will let you know how it goes..

Buzzard777
03-16-2013, 11:03 AM
I have lost 30 pounds in 3 weeks on the IP diet. I am off all 3 of my diabetic meds and my cholesterol meds. My blood pressure is way off and I am hoping to get off my meds for that. I do not know what my long term results will be but as for now it is making a huge health improvement. The diet has been the easiest one I have done as far as very few cravings. The weight loss has helped me to realize how far I let myself slip and made me see a need for a change in my eating habits. I have liked the Ip so far from my expierience.