General chatter - Intent to cheat

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12-19-2010, 08:26 AM
Sometimes I open my mouth way too much on this forum. :rolleyes: But, I'm feeling alone...and you are all so wise.

Bluntly...I told my husband we are finished. I found a correspondence between him and an ex-girlfriend from high school...on facebook...where I have his password. Even better, FB notifies our JOINT email account every time he gets a new message. :rolleyes: Stupid much? He hasn't cheated, but the contents of the correspondence in a nutshell say that if things don't work out between DH and me it's nice to know there's still a window for them to rekindle their love. :p I also found a midnight chat between them involving, well, we'll just say flirting.

This after I have put up with absolute CRAP from him with his depression. And I have wanted out for a long time! And he knows this! So why, WHY, has he kept me trapped like this?

So on the one hand...yeah.

On the other hand, I am absolutely terrified. I do not know how to move forward. I have to move financially and because this house is just way too big. And I was so proud of this house. So unbelievably proud. We have a hot tub...and a creek...and I never took it for granted. Never.

And my children are going to hate me.


Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

12-19-2010, 08:39 AM
Gosh, Eliana no real words of wisdom. Apart from, perhaps you should talk first? I know it must be a horrendous shock for you to discover this, but it may not be everything it seems. Some people need to flirt to boost their egos. Sometimes people say too much on the net because they are not accountable face to face. Marriage is hard, I've been married to a lovely, caring, thoughtful man for fifteen years, but it certainly has not been a bed of roses! Think hard, talk as much as you can and most of all take care of you :hug:

12-19-2010, 08:59 AM
No, there's no talking. This is not a rash decision. I have wanted out for a long time, but as my friend said to me, apparently I need a smoking gun. This is the excuse I need to get out of this. That's why I'm really not angry. Mystified, yes. But not angry. My children are growing up in a very unhealthy environment right now and it's time to move on. I just don't know how.

12-19-2010, 09:02 AM
Oh I hate to hear this but it seems like you will be so much happier in the long run, **** the short run. My husband and I had a bad time a few years back and me and the kids moved in with a relative for a few months. Is that possible?

12-19-2010, 09:03 AM
It sounds to me like you know what you're talking about when you say its OVER... so, so be it. Only you know your own heart and it sounds like your heart (and mind) are talking!

It's not easy leaving stuff behind, especially when you loved it and appreciated it like you did, but it'll be freeing and way, WAY better for you mentally and emotionally in the end.

You have to look after you. Your kids will more than likely understand one day, if you explain to them.


It won't be easy, but follow your heart no matter what.

12-19-2010, 09:12 AM
You'll get through this the same way you've gotten through the last year of your weight loss - steady, unwavering commitment to making your life better.

And I bet you'll find that when he's gone, the weight you've been holding on to will finally feel like you are safe enough that it can go, too. Our bodies hold on to stuff when we are stressed, for survival.

You will come out the other side of this shining!

12-19-2010, 09:47 AM
I would make copies of any of either of your financial statements before you talk about the divorce. Then see if he's going to contest it and if he is, hire a divorce lawyer. I can give you some tips about finding a good one. Sorry you have to go through this, getting divorced can be really expensive and traumatic even when you know it's what you want.

12-19-2010, 10:12 AM
This after I have put up with absolute CRAP from him with his depression. And I have wanted out for a long time! And he knows this! So why, WHY, has he kept me trapped like this?

You are not have the freedom to go at's just it will be costly in more ways than one.

And my children are going to hate me..

This is a definite possibility. I can tell you from personal experience that my children, adults now, love their mother but their relationship, although geographically close, has been strained for 20 years now.

I'm not saying you should or should not leave, totally your choice. My advice would be to exhaust ALL possible solutions to the problem....sometimes divorce is the solution :(

My ex-wife wanted out for a long time before she left.....that was over 20 years ago. If I had known how wonderful my life was going to be after she left I would have helped her pack her bags instead of trying to hold on to the marriage!

My kids and I are very-very close, I love SO MUCH my life with my wife now of almost 15 years....but I would never wish divorce on anyone. It really took a toll on all of us, especially my ex-wife. We are still friends today, she is included in almost all of our family activities and has since they day she walked out.

She was advised on what to or not to do by friends and family, our pastor and counselors....she made her choice and lived with it. To be honest I am now very :) and she is, and has been for a long time :(

Our situation was much different than lives are the same. I think most people "wonder" the what ifs with past relationships....but acting upon them is a different thing. Communication leads to action.....Facebook relationships have turned out great for a lot of folks and so horrible for others...that's life, people take their chances...

some win....some lose.....

Good Luck in your choices :hug:

12-19-2010, 10:26 AM
Do you think he gave you a smoking gun on purpose? Maybe he wanted to give you an out?

I'm sorry you are hurting so much. I know you have a lot of inner strength to tap during this time. And I don't think your kids will hate you. Kids know when something is not right. It may be hard, but it might be a great relief to them, too.

12-19-2010, 10:27 AM
I've really enjoyed reading your posts. You sound like a good friend. I'm sorry your personal life has been in such turmoil all this time. As Seagirl said, you have inner strength that will lead you out of this and into a calm life.

12-19-2010, 10:27 AM
My perspective, a house is a 'thing'. How you are emotionally is much better than any material item you can have. It seems like it would be better for both you and your husband to move on. How do you do it? One day at a time, one step at a time.

12-19-2010, 11:09 AM
have you considered getting a roomate ot two so you can stay where you are? hope it works out.

12-19-2010, 11:11 AM
My kids and I are very-very close, I love SO MUCH my life with my wife now of almost 15 years....but I would never wish divorce on anyone. It really took a toll on all of us, especially my ex-wife. We are still friends today, she is included in almost all of our family activities and has since they day she walked out.

This is what I want. I told him yesterday I want a divorce, and then last night we went to see Harry Potter together. We're amicable and I want to keep it this way. I wouldn't mind being neighbors with him and I think that would be ideal for the kids. Emotionally, I am simply spent.

I'll never know if he really would have cheated or not. It really doesn't matter. To me, what he did is the same thing. I thought about sitting on the information I had (which I copied into a document) and waiting to see where it went. But ultimately I knew that would only breed anger. I decided it didn't matter and the mature thing to do was to stop him before he dug himself into a hole he couldn't crawl out of.

DH is suicidal and has been for a long time. I live with a man who threatens suicide, whom I have to walk on egg shells around, who snaps at the kids all.the.time and who is no fun to be around. I am way more the parent than the partner and I haven't had a real partner in marriage maybe ever. He has zero responsibilities I don't have to special request. He takes no interest in anything in life. He's been off work for two months working on the depression. I asked him to do two simple things: straighten the house and sign our son up for soccer. This I requested over the course of a month. It didn't happen, didn't happen, didn't happen...I reminded him every other day. Finally, he got his mom to do it. Yes, he got his mom to put a registration form in an envelope, address it, stamp it and send it. This was too much responsibility for him.

So really, the FB thing was just the straw that broke the camel's back. I honestly do not know how I'd feel about what he did if I wasn't already ready to leave. Would I overlook it? I actually think I'd be even angrier than I am.

I mean come on folks...isn't intent to cheat really just as bad as actually doing it?

12-19-2010, 11:27 AM
DH is suicidal and has been for a long time.
Suicidal can also mean "Homicidal" you may want to chose your words wisely with a person like this and careful about making threats of divorce at this particular time.

I mean come on folks...isn't intent to cheat really just as bad as actually doing it?

IMHO....NO. And for one thing, without knowing the heart, no one can really coin another's "intent". That said, even IF he were 'thinkin about it, he could change his course of thought over time...having never constituted an act of adultery. Kinda...the cow before the milk thingy:p

Sorry, you are going through such a hard time. Having been through divorce myself...I really feel your pain.:( Only piece of advice I can honestly give you is....don't make any hasty decisions. Think everything out completely.

Many people see "DIVORCE" as a "WAY OUT", when in reality, as long as you share children will FOREVER be bonded together. Additionally, in Divorce...there really are NO WINNERS...everybody LOSES...and sadly enough, the kids end up being the biggest losers...

Hoping things get better for you soon.:hug:

12-19-2010, 11:34 AM
Yep, child of divorce mom cheated on my dad, sort of...with his consent. :rolleyes: Basically I have fought unbelievably hard to keep from getting where I am today. That's how I know this is over. I know because it's the last thing I want. I have to put the kids first, that has always been my thought. And DH knows it. I think that may have been part of the problem. He knew there was very little he could do that would make me leave. I think he was way too comfortable knowing that. But my kids have seen too much now. I have got to get them out.

Living with depression is too hard to be able to write out in a post. And my husband's is being termed by FOUR doctors as "untreatable". My children are learning that men sleep all day, that women do everything else, and that men mope around as slugs. They are learning that dads are grouchy and that moms play with the kids.

I will never say this to the kids because they need to know this has nothing to do with them, but I'm hoping their relationship with their father improves when he doesn't have to deal with them so often.

12-19-2010, 12:01 PM
Eliana, is separation an option? Sometimes this is an option for some. Just something to consider.:)

12-19-2010, 12:16 PM
I mean come on folks...isn't intent to cheat really just as bad as actually doing it?

I have to agree with you about this. For me, intent to cheat is as bad as cheating because you lose trust for your partner. One of my exes cheated on me a handful of times, and then started talking to other people (without physically cheating) while we were still in that strange together-ish phase. The emotional intent to cheat was just as hurtful as the physical cheating, and once the trust was gone I realized I could never be with her again.

Love is very complicated, but trust is black and white. For me, I can't be in a relationship without trust.

Granted, I'm only 23 and don't know much about love and/or functional, long term relationships :o

12-19-2010, 01:01 PM
I recommend the book Rebuilding: When Your Relationship Ends by Bruce Fisher. One of the things it discusses are the differences in experiences between the dumper (more guilt) and the dumpee (less control). I think what is happening to you is what happened to me -- you are both the dumper and the dumpee. The guy wasn't strong enough to be the dumper so he manipulated the situation to make you the dumper, even though you feel the same rejection and anger and vulnerability as the dumpee. What ultimately helped me was to embrace the role of dumper and grab all of that control and power and strength so that I could create a better life for myself. And I did. So, good luck to you!

12-19-2010, 01:26 PM
Eliana, I'm so sorry you have to go through this.

My ex and I are an unusual example of a "happily divorced" couple. He had a history of minor trust breaches, but in the summer of 2001 I found out a piece of information which shattered any remaining trust into a million pieces. We flopped around for about 6 months trying to see if we could make things work, but it became clear that the marriage was over.

Even the most amicable divorce in history was ****, but we're both much better off for it. We actually see each other (on purpose!) once or twice a year--in fact, I visited him for Thanksgiving. Neither one of us has any desire to get back together, which I think makes things less awkward.

Anyway...just saying that an amicable divorce where you get back to being friends, or at least cordial, is not impossible. Once you get through this, I honestly believe you will feel as if a burden has been lifted from you. Try to hang in there until then.


12-19-2010, 02:39 PM
What a painful situation. I could not live with myself if I stuck around in a relationship, where I knew my partner was even simply talking somewhat intimately with someone else.

I would have no respect for him, I would always feel resentful and I would also lose respect for myself. For some reason, I have no patience or sympathy for this behavior.

12-19-2010, 02:47 PM
These are my best words of wisdom. My favorite quote…

"In theory there is a possibility of perfect happiness: To believe in the indestructible element within one, and not to strive towards it."
Franz Kafka 1918

Perfect happiness is to believe in the indestructible element within you.

True wealth is not what you have; it's what you're left with when all you have is gone. This concept helped me through a very difficult time.

I'm only 24, I know nothing of marriage and complicated relationships. I have decided that I will not be cheated on.

I went through a tough time where I put on weight, crashed my college gpa, didn't want to get out of bed in the morning etc. It felt like a slap in the face to have my family do nothing but tell me what an f-up I am. They did not even pretend to believe in me. My parents did not tell me I have a lot to offer the world, they believe in me and my ability to turn things around. It felt like I have all these problems and on top of them my parents do nothing but scream at me. I felt completely alone, vulnerable and helpless. Now that things are better, I still remember that when things weren't going well my family kicked me when I was down.

I decided that if I get married, I will support someone going through a tough time rather than nag them about their problems and try to be right. The catch is that the second they cheat on me I am out. If this was not an emotional affair, it was at the very least disrespectful. Once trust is broken it's nearly impossible to get back. It does not seem like your husband is up to the task of climbing Mount Everest in order to reclaim your trust.

Lastly, while I went through my dark period I read a lot of spiritual/self help type books. A very common theme is that letting go of your ego and being right is a crucial step towards happiness. Humility is a powerful force and it finds you in the way that will best get your attention. Don't worry about being proud of your home and too proud to get a divorce; it will just make you unhappy. Make happiness your #1 priority.

Also don't be right. Don't have the attitude of my husband did x y and z and I am right. Just calmly look over the situation and focus on what it means going forward. Do your best not to say anything negative about your husband (or even hint at anything negative) to your kids. They will respect you for it a bunch later. I highly recommend the book "a new earth" by Eckhart Tolle.

Good Luck, you'll get through it and be in a much better place down the road.

12-19-2010, 02:48 PM
I am so sorry you have to go through this. I can't imagine how difficult this must be with children involved.
That being said, you cannot stay with a man because he is depressed or even suicidal. The promise to help him get better is only valid if he is actively working on it himself. It sounds like he isn't there yet.
One of the things I have learned along my journey, is that some things are an "inside job" meaning that there are some things I had to realize for myself. People have helped, but ultimately, I have to do it myself.
Chldren are flexible. They deserve to see YOU be healthy and happy, rather than BOTH their parents miserable.
I hope things can work out for the best.

12-19-2010, 03:02 PM
One thing I wanted to say is I was talking to someone recently who got a divorce and they said their relationship with their ex is a lot better now that they are divorced. Both parents have moved on to other relationships and the person I know is very happy.

My husband was also married prior to us getting together. I know some details of their marriage but they struggled a lot and his ex wife seemed very unhappy which made him unhappy. They ended up separating and then getting a divorce. I would hope my husband is happier now and I hope his ex wife is happy as well.

Personally, I think there is a point where you check yourself out of a relationship emotionally and when that happens, I'm not sure you can ever go back. It sounds like you have checked out. I think you can find your happiness in life but it doesn't sound like it includes your husband.

12-19-2010, 03:12 PM
If it was me, I'd take the kids and leave. Go to my parents, or something. And not let him see them until he's stopped being such a depressive. God. That kind of attitude is NOT good for children.

Or kick him out. That's what my mum did to my dad when she found out he was a lying, cheating good-for-nothing bum. Screw the house. Your own personal wellbeing and that of your kids is more important than bricks and mortar. And screw him, it sounds like you know what you're doing and he's just... lying there suffering from apathy.

But then again, I don't believe in trying to fix relationships when they're broken. One strike and they're out in my book.

Good luck hun. I hope you find happiness.

12-19-2010, 03:38 PM
My perspective, a house is a 'thing'. How you are emotionally is much better than any material item you can have. It seems like it would be better for both you and your husband to move on. How do you do it? One day at a time, one step at a time.

This is so true. I loved my house, too, when I got divorced but I quickly learned....a house is just a building, but a home is where my kids and I live. You will learn to love another house, and the pressure of not being in an unhappy relationship will be like a weight off your shoulders.

The kids were my biggest worry, too, and they are the only reason I sometimes regret divorcing. I didn't want them to grow up in a cold, unhappy home (like I did) so that weighed into my decision. I don't know which is the worst--growing up in a home where there is coldness between your parents, or having them divorce. That is a choice only you can make.

I wish you well. It's a difficult decision, but one I have very few regrets about. I wish you the very best, I really do.

12-19-2010, 04:35 PM
:hug: I read your posts all the time, Eliana. I'm really sorry to see you going through such a hard time. Just wanted to say I'm sending you all the good wishes I can, and best of luck with everything.

12-19-2010, 05:30 PM
This has been a long time coming, and I wondered sometimes what you would end up doing, if either you or your husband forced the issue, and a crisis finally ensued. I mean a sudden, world-shaking crisis, rather than the long, drawn-out one you've been enduring. I did not think he would, from how you've described his condition.

You're one of the people on the forum whom I've thought occasionally about while away from my laptop. Of course, we only get part of the story here, but the bits & scraps that I did get made me think that your situation was untenable, and I was hoping for a change for the better for you, but did not know how that change would come about.

I have confidence in your ability to take action here. Because you already have, in so many ways. You were the one who looked up & said one day, "My life isn't working. I need to make a change." And your weight, of course, was something well within your control: Your own body, your self. Once a woman gets a taste of power & her ability to take control & make changes, how can she stop? She just HAS TO take a look around her & see what else in her life isn't working. Also, I think you were making yourself strong & healthy for a reason: To be prepared for what might be coming, when you'd need that strength. And yes, as a role model for your children.

Your husband appears to be entertaining an escapist daydream. To go back to a former sweetheart, whom presumably he knew before the marriage, before becoming a father, a husband, a guy with a house & mortgage & monthly bills, to reboot one's life ... it's a nice dream, but hard to realize, once you are responsible for other peoples' lives, like your children's. If he is crushed by the weight of his depression, he's probably looking to shrug off some of what he perceives as an unresolveable burden. Yes, the magical new girl -- well, not new, the One That Got Away, the Road Not Taken -- will cure it all. But this is a kind of regression, rather than a sign of growth.

Based on your posts in this thread, and in others before it, I do think you two are growing in different directions.

Hang in there, Eliana.

I think you can. I think you're a lot stronger than you probably were a year ago today. In so many ways.

12-19-2010, 09:05 PM
If it was me, I'd take the kids and leave. Go to my parents, or something. And not let him see them until he's stopped being such a depressive. God. That kind of attitude is NOT good for children.

I have to jump in and say that it's not as simple as stopping being depressed. Some people have chemical imbalances that need correction via therapy and drugs. My fiance's father has paranoid schizophrenia, and he'll always be like that and it's brought on by stress. Of course, he refuses to be treated and take meds because he doesn't think he's sick.

12-19-2010, 09:11 PM
I have to ask, Eliana, how long as he been depressed for? Why have four doctors said that he's untreatable? And if you don't mind me asking, why have you wanted out for a long time?

12-19-2010, 11:40 PM
If it was me, I'd take the kids and leave. Go to my parents, or something. And not let him see them until he's stopped being such a depressive. God. That kind of attitude is NOT good for children.

Unfortunately, in this case maybe, that is called kidnapping.

12-19-2010, 11:48 PM
This is what I want. I told him yesterday I want a divorce, and then last night we went to see Harry Potter together. We're amicable and I want to keep it this way. I wouldn't mind being neighbors with him and I think that would be ideal for the kids. Emotionally, I am simply spent.

Without going through all the details my ex and I did a great job overall of co-parenting our children. As I mentioned we are still friends today, in fact we were in church together this morning...but that is common...she will be at my house Christmas Eve as she has been every year since our divorce, 1990. We have actually stayed in the same hotel room several times ....after I remarried....weired yes, to most...but not for us.... took a lot of effort years ago, mostly on my part, your husband doesn't seem like he would be so willing.....

Since he isn't working will you be required to pay him alimony?

I hope I am wrong about your husbands "attitude" after a divorce :hug:

12-20-2010, 09:08 AM
Saef, thank you so much. :) You really made feel a sense of friendship through your post. The internet is so weird, isn't it? This has been a long time coming and I appreciate so much that you see that. As always, you are absolutely spot on. It's funny you mention that I made changes to my body in order to be stronger for this moment. I had a similar thought yesterday. My body changes have absolutely nothing to do with what is going on. I started this process ten years ago and needed it done for me. But isn't the timing impeccable? It finally worked now? I had the thought that his slip up with the ex girlfriend was a sign to me, the last straw, the one thing I could really hang my hat on as the final solid reason for leaving. I have many, many reasons for leaving, but they're all small. This one thing he has done may or may not be bad enough to leave him over, but when combined with everything else, this is my moment. And I thought, my goodness, how lucky I am to have made the changes I have. I don't have to be the woman to say, "I'll lose weight and show him." I actually have the self-confidence to say "Wow, he wants to leave me for her? Really?" I don't feel inferior in any way, and that's a precious gift. I'm really proud of myself right now. :^:

EZ, I do actually see having exactly that kind of relationship with him. He really is generally a very good man, with a very not-so-good man slip up. :rolleyes: What he did is very unlike him. He kindly asked where I wanted him to sleep and I laughed and said our bed is the size of Africa, it doesn't bother me a bit to share a bed. Perhaps that gets weird? But it's not weird right now.

I have to ask, Eliana, how long as he been depressed for? Why have four doctors said that he's untreatable? And if you don't mind me asking, why have you wanted out for a long time?
He's been depressed our entire marriage, but he's been severe for about five years. As I said, he's suicidal. He's considered "untreatable" because so far we can not find meds that work and because he just endured 12 rounds of shock therapy that did not work. There's a small percentage of people for whom that doesn't work and he's it. I feel for him. I hate this for him. And that's why I have wanted out for so long. I have been trapped due to his illness. Who leaves a man who is this sick? What kind of person would that make me? This is why this is my opportunity. He did something that he can not blame on his depression, though guess what...he's trying to. He said he went to her because he was that sad. :rolleyes:

Thanks for making me write that out. :D He has a way of sucking me back in.

12-20-2010, 02:46 PM
Be strong for you and your kiddos. You've already proven to yourself how strong and determined you are. When it comes to your children I KNOW you can be even stronger. He can't blame this on depression. Nice try, but no sir. It was a concious effort/decision on his part. It will be a better living situation for you and your children if you guys separate from him for awhile. Yes, it will be tough there's no way around that. But think of how much better their lives and attitudes will be. They shouldn't have to deal with his problems. He needs to work on bettering himself, and maybe you and the kiddos leaving for a while will be all the motivation he needs. Whether it is or not, I feel the children will be much better off visiting him rather than living with him.
Good luck, hold your head high, and most of all believe in yourself and your capabilities.

12-20-2010, 03:46 PM
Kids are incredibly intuitive and they know when something is off in their world. they also crave stability, and the “walking on eggshells” that you mentioned having to do probably applies to them as well, i’m sure. only they’re children so they don’t understand why, and that can become something a child internalizes (if it hasn’t already been internalized over the past 5 years). As a child of divorce, I would very much have appreciated it if my sane, strong parent had had the maturity and strength to make life changing decisions with me in mind. I think your kids will thank you for this in the long run.

It is, however, important that your kids know that it is OK to be mad about this. It is OK for them to feel any way that they feel. And as their mother, it is important that you understand that they will be mad, but that, although it may seem like they are mad at you, they are simply scared and upset that they have no control over their world. Try not to take it personally if they act out in anger or blame you at the beginning. Encourage them to speak to you about how this is making them feel. If anyone is having trouble finding the words, ask them to draw pictures with you, and in that fun stress free environment remind them that you love them, and that daddy loves them, and that whatever they’re feeling or thinking is OK. And also, if you can keep your relationship amicable after divorce, as you’ve said you’d like to do, that will be the best possible thing for your children.

:hug: I think what your doing is wonderful. I’ve read your posts a few times and wondered to myself exactly how it was that you were living like this. I’m so sorry you’re going through something so difficult, but I am confident that you will be a better person for it.

Has he been to a psychologist to rule out any personality disorders? It seems that if drugs and shock treatments (wow) didn’t work, psychotherapy with a trained professional will help get to the root of the problem.

EDIT: I also agree that intent to cheat is just as bad. I absolutely refuse to be disrespected like that. I don’t blame you that the Facebook thing was your last straw.

12-20-2010, 04:21 PM
Here's what I want to know:

How exactly does one end a country song? I feel like I am in the world's worst ever country song.

1. Divorce looming
2. My mom is dieing a horrible death
3. My mom just informed me that my brother, who is my WORLD, is drinking heavily again. I adore him. He is a severe alcoholic and another round of this will likely kill him. The last time he actually turned green.
4. DH is currently at the hospital...suicidal...again
5. My dad just lost his job due to the economy in Florida.

Please someone...turn off the radio!! I've.had.enough.

12-20-2010, 04:23 PM
DH and I have a pretty awesome marriage- but with that said, if I found out that he was flirting with other women on facebook and making "just in case things dont work out" plans, I would need some serious convincing to stay. If it were a bad marriage, peace out! So, yes, I think the intent to cheat is just as bad as actually doing it.

I don't know your particularly well, but my heart has often broken for you through some of your posts about your family situation. My stepfather suffered from depression quite severely, and it ultimately ended he and my mother's 14 year marriage. There's a heaviness and an obligation that comes with living with someone so ill- they have no interests or energy, any responsibility is too much for them to handle, they're often tense and easily agitated. It's exhausting. Not even counting all of the extra slack you have to pick up. My mom just couldn't take it anymore. They saw four therapists, he tried countless medications. In the end the pscyhiatrist unofficially diagnosed him borderline personality disorder. (He wouldn't officially diagnose him because insurance considers BPD an untreatable disorder and, therefore, would stop covering the meds he did take. The meds did make things SOMEWHAT better, and so stopping them would have just made things worse) I watched my exceptionally social mother spend less time out with people because stepdad couldnt handle it. She was working 60 hours a week, doing all of the housework, all of the cooking, all of the grocery shopping. He wasn't working, but wouldn't vaccuum, or go to the store with a list, or, really, do anything. He was easily angered, and constantly tense. She finally couldn't take it, and ended it. Just a little over a year later- I have never seen my mom happier. It wasn't easy, and for awhile she struglled with feeling very guilty. But, ultimately, she did what was best and is thrilled with her decision.

Your children know something is wrong. They know that mom is torn, exhausted, nervous. Adjusting to a divorced family will be tough, but they deserve to have a stable household. You deserve your sanity. He is sick. He is suffering. And right now, you are too. You have worked your very hardest, but you need to be strong for your children and yourself.

I am a child of divorce. My understanding of what happened is that my dad essentially left my mom for my stepmom. I was never told that, never asked, and as an adult, have informed my parents that I have no interest in ever knowing. (though my sister is the opposite. bluntly asked, and my "understanding" comes from what she has told me) My parents raised me well. They didn't fight or call eachother names. They were both there for every big moment in my life. They drove me down to college together. They both walked my sister down the aisle at her wedding. They email jokes to eachother. This Sunday night we will all be getting together for Christmas- mom, stepmom, dad, half brothers, my sister, our husbands, etc. and it will be great. You can coparent as long as your partner is willing, and despite what common thought seems to be, "staying together for the kids" isn't necessarily a better option.

Good luck in this process.

12-20-2010, 04:59 PM
Oh my goodness, Eliana. Such a lot happening. All those feelings. :hug:

Keep writing out your feelings, friend. Here or on paper. Sentences or scraps of feelings. It helps, as you know. Keep doing it.

Big hugs for your boys. And you, of course. One step at a time.

12-20-2010, 05:37 PM
Eliana... my mother just divorced my father (today it finalized actually). Let me say that I do not hate her for doing so. In fact, I wish it had happened many years ago. Get your kids and get out. If you are unhappy, they are unhappy. They may not know the details of this particular issue but I'm sure it's clear that something is not right.

Good luck to you!

12-20-2010, 07:20 PM
Suicidal can also mean "Homicidal" you may want to chose your words wisely with a person like this and careful about making threats of divorce at this particular time.

Are you serious? That is insulting to any person out there that has ever been depressed and experienced suicidal ideation. There is huge distinct line between the two.

12-20-2010, 07:22 PM
Eliana, I said a prayer for you and hope that you find a support network in real life that can guide you through this transitional time. There are agency/people out there to help you make the move both financially and emotionally.

12-20-2010, 07:27 PM
Twinsmomma - actually, neuroscience research is starting to show that both suicidal and homicidal impulses are controlled in the same area of the brain, involve many of the same neurotransmitters. One current theory is that both are rooted in extreme rage. When there is an external subject for that rage, it can be turned outward and become homicidal, and when there is no external subject for that rage, it can turn inward and become suicidal. I think that in this case, it may be wise to take some measures for personal safety, just in case. This is definitely a situation where, if you feel that either of you is at risk for harm, it'd be much better to hit the panic button early than too late.

Obviously not all suicidal individuals have homicidal ideation...the vast majority likely do not (which is why joyfulloser said "can" turn into...not "will" turn into). But given the brain links between the two, I think caution is called for here.

And I'm saying this as someone who HAS struggled with depression and suicidal ideation. While I never turned violent toward anyone but myself, I do know that at that time, I was unstable and unpredictable. I don't consider it necessarily a "slap in the face" to think that one might want to exercise caution around unstable, unpredictable people when they are going through emotionally difficult circumstances.

Eliana - this is rough. REALLY rough. Please make sure you have a BIG support group, both here and in person, to help you get through what is sure to be a difficult time ahead. Sometimes, you really do need to take care of you, and it seems like you're taking positive steps toward doing so.

12-20-2010, 08:28 PM
youfulloser said "Suicidal can mean homicidal," not "suicidal means homicidal,"
nor " All, most, (or even many) suicidal people are homicidal."

I've been on "both sides of the couch" when it comes to depression - working in social service (with masters' degree in psychology), and dealing with depression myself (given my education I was quite stubborn about admitting I was depressed). At the worst point in my health issues, while I was applying for disability, I didn't seriously consider suicide, only because I didn't have the energy to carry it out. If you could wish yourself dead, I would have been.

As for suicide being linked with homicide, it isn't unfortunately all that rare. Surely you've heard of murder/suicide. It's sadly not all that rare for a person to kill themselves after killing others. Every community in which I've lived (and they've been small, not large, urban communities) have had at least one such incident a year, and most have had several, so obviously suicidal can mean homicidal, and homicidal can mean suicidal.

It doesn't even have to be rage related. Some people when they see they're causing their loved ones a great deal of pain, as much as they see themselves in, it isn't a big leap from "I'd be better off dead," to "We'd all be better off dead. Maybe we'll be happy together in heaven, or at least it will end our suffering."

I've never crossed that line myself, but I have worked with many people who have, and it itsn't an illogical leap. If you can think the former, the latter isn't much of a stretch. Of course it doesn't mean they always go together, but there is the potential.

Post-partum depression is one of the most risky types of depression for suicidal/homicidal ideations. Not all women who experience post-partum depression experience suicidal or homicidal thoughts, but there are many who experience one or both. And being outraged at the suggestion that the two can go together can actually inhibit people from seeking treatment, because they're too ashamed of the homicidal feelings to admit them or seek treatment for them.

It's ok to admit that the two can go together, because they can.

12-20-2010, 10:03 PM
With regard to the homicidal comments, actually I was already thinking about it. I need to ask his doctor if he thinks DH fits any kind of profile I need to look out for. DH has OCD that is entirely based on obsessive thoughts and I have worried that he could get a loop thought in his head of killing me or the boys and with all the strain...well...I never thought he'd write a letter like to an ex-girlfriend either and yet here we are. I kicked him out for a week a few weeks ago because he was unpredictable and unstable and was scaring me. That was because of the last ECT treatment he'd had but still. Basically I do not know.

I am not afraid of him, not at all. But I do have to have that in the back of my mind.

12-20-2010, 10:12 PM
Eliana :hug:
You've been a weightloss inspiration to me, and now one on a personal level. You are a very brave, strong woman. Thank you for being on this site and sharing all things, good and bad.

12-20-2010, 10:14 PM
Eliana, I always find your posts insightful and you are an inspiration. I wish you well and will be praying for you.

12-20-2010, 10:16 PM
Eliana -- I just wanted to say I hope you can get the support you need in real life, too. Sounds like you've been going through an awful lot (ECT only used for severe depression!)

Time to make the choices to be the best YOU. :hug:

Arctic Mama
12-20-2010, 10:23 PM

12-20-2010, 10:56 PM
:hug: I just wanted to let you know that, from what I've seen of you on this website, I really respect you as a person and you will be in my thoughts. Your children will not hate you for getting them out of an unstable and potentially unsafe environment. My mother has been divorced twice, the first time from my dad, who was abusive, and the second time from a man who was constantly threatening to commit suicide if she left him. As a child of divorce, I can see that it was much better for me and my siblings to be living with a stable, single parent than to be living with both my parents. My relationship with my dad is actually a lot better now that I don't live with him or see him that often, and I certainly don't hate my mother for divorcing him. You have your reasons for wanting this divorce, and even if they can't see it now, seeing you not being so miserable and not being around somebody who is constantly depressed and threatening suicide will be better for them in the long run.

Nola Celeste
12-20-2010, 11:55 PM
Nothing, but nothing compares to being able to breathe after ending a truly poisonous relationship. There's only so long you can orbit the black hole of another person's misery before you either get sucked into it and crushed or reach escape velocity.

I'm deeply sorry that you're enduring so much right now, but the crushing pressure will end. I don't know you well, but I know that's inevitably true.

You are a monumentally strong person to bear up under so much. :hug:

12-22-2010, 01:14 AM
As a person that has experienced working in mental health profression as a counselor for over 7 years andgetting a degree in psychology- that Suicidal thoughts do not equal homocidial thoughts. You all can splice the facts any which way you want, but association is simply not the same thing. It truly does the mental health community a huge injustice to make these claims. It's really simply pretty sad. I'm not declaring that a person who is suicidal is stable, nor thinking rationally but one does not equal the other. Perhaps in theory the neuroscience idea is possible, just because the wrong thoughts come from the same place doesnt mean they will be of the same effect.
I find it amusing many in this community make claims and then they hide behind language terms like "could or maybe"

How about a better way of putting would be.

Your husband is experiencing a deep amount of pain.
It would be a great idea to be sure that you keep your kids and you safe by asking him if he has been experiencing any negative thoughts like hurting others. Maybe you could find a person/therapist/psychologist to address any of your concerns with them.

12-22-2010, 02:10 AM
I do think it's important that we be here to support Eliana, as the OP, and be careful not to stray too far from that.

Twinmomma, we need to use words like "could" or "maybe" and in other ways not make black and white assertions that don't hold up. I don't think anyone did assert that suicidical and homocidal ideations are the same, but this isn't the place to debate it further.

Now, let's move back to support for Eliana!