Faith Based Support Groups - Can anyone help?

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10-30-2010, 11:55 PM
Not looking for debate, just some help understanding - Genesis 1:27 reads "...He created him; male and female He created them." then later in Genesis 2:22 it reads "Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman..." So uhh was woman made twice or what? :/

10-31-2010, 12:23 AM
I'm actually agnostic, so I hope it's ok if I post here, but if you think about it, the male has the XY chromosomes and the female has XX so when he created him, her (she) was part of him, no? ;)

10-31-2010, 01:34 AM
I believe it is just a repetition of the act of creating. The first stating that he in fact did create THEM, the later stating how :)

10-31-2010, 03:57 AM
I agree with islandchick

10-31-2010, 07:30 AM
Islandchick sounds like she's onto something there...... :)

I remember reading/hearing somewhere years ago that Adam supposedly had a wife before Eve named Lilith who was created from the same earth as he was, but she turned out to be evil (she wouldn't be subservient to him) and was banished or somesuch, then God created Eve out of Adam.... yadda yadda yadda. Not sure if that's just a myth, or if its in some versions of the Bible but not others (we know many of them are different in some ways), etc. Something interesting to look into though, for sure.

Or, maybe, I just read too much fiction and am getting stuff confused. :)

10-31-2010, 09:47 AM
The story about Lilith is based in Jewish folklore. It was used widely in the middle ages and suggests that she was demonic.

10-31-2010, 10:32 AM
Good question MEESH ~ same story, just more fully told in Gen. 2.....

good for you for seeking more!

10-31-2010, 12:23 PM
So what be cometh of this Lilith in the folk lore?

10-31-2010, 04:22 PM
Thanks y'all :D

10-31-2010, 04:30 PM
Lilith is referred to once in the bible. In Isaiah 34:14 KJV
"The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with the wild beasts of the island, and the satyr shall cry to his fellow; the screech owl also shall rest there, and find for herself a place of rest."
Lilith is the satyr that is referenced.

"We see somewhat more of her in late Roman/early medieval Judaism. She appears frequently on prophylactic magical bowls. In this context, she is clearly associated with childbirth (e.g. as a threat), and perhaps also as a succubus against which men need protection. In these bowls she is often countered by invoking the powers of her nemesis angels: Snvi, Snsvi, and Smnglof (we don't know what vowels to use with these names, but presumably they were intended to be pronounceable). She also shows up in the Talmud, and is clearly linked with the demonic world. Here also, her role as succubus begins to take clear shape.

Somewhere between the eighth and tenth centuries, CE, she makes an appearance in a satirical work entitled the Alphabet of Ben Sira. It is here that she is first given what has become her most famous persona: the first wife of Adam (before Eve). In this story, she is created at more or less the same time as Adam, and, as was Adam, out of the ground. Because of this she tries to assert her equality -- an assertion which Adam rejects. Refusing to conform to Adam's desires, she escapes from Eden, and is subsequently replaced by the more subservient Eve (who has less claim to equality, since she was made out of Adam's side). Having escaped Eden, Lilith takes on her renowned role as baby-stealer and mother of demons. She also promises to leave babies alone who are protected by amulets with the names of the three angels mentioned above.

While it is true that there was a rabbinic tradition that Adam briefly had another wife before the creation of Eve (Genesis Rabbah), there is a great deal of doubt as to whether Lilith had any connection at all to this first wife of Adam story prior the publication of the Alphabet. The satirical nature of the Alphabet casts further doubt on the authenticity of this Lilith connection. But whatever its origins, the connection between Lilith and the first Eve seems to have struck a chord with Jewish folk imagination and it is now an inexorable part of those traditions. It has been able to function both as a 'woman's story' (in which Lilith is a role model for uppity women), and as a patriarchal story (in which we see the dire consequences of being an uppity woman). As a midrash, it also helps to solve a problem that arises from the fact that Genesis 1 has mankind created "male and female," but when we get to Genesis 2, Adam seems to be alone and in need of a partner.

Kabbalistic literature is occasionally aware of the Alphabet story, but more frequently not. Here Lilith usually appears as a partner for Samael (=Satan), and as the chief feminine expression of the Left (evil) Emanation. In some passages, she participates in the temptation of Eve/Adam, and, after the expulsion, she serves as succubus to Adam, generating hoards of demons from his seed. She is also the personification of temptation, and is for all intents and purposes identified with the woman Folly from the early chapters of Proverbs. In one story, she actually serves as consort to the Holy One.

She also appears in Christian iconography. Most late medieval and renaissance paintings of the temptation of Adam and Eve have portrayed the serpent as having a woman's head and often torso as well. This is usually referred to by art historians as 'Lilith,' but there is no Jewish story which easily corresponds to the pictorial representations (the one exception is Bacharach, 'Emeq haMelekh 23c-d, but it is confusing, and problematic at best). I am led to presume that there were Christian versions of the Lilith myth in which the identification between her and the Serpent were made explicit. Unfortunately, none of these versions have survived in either text or known folklore.

She has also been embraced by many modern, particularly Jewish, feminists. Based mainly, or entirely, on the Alphabet, she is presented as the proto-feminist, willing to sacrifice even the paradise of Eden as the necessary cost of freedom and equality. Of course, her role as baby-stealer is usually down-played (or assigned to a patriarchal layer of the tradition). Some neo-pagan groups have taken up her cause as well, either accepting her dark nature as part of larger sacred reality, or finding the erotic goddess within after removing the clutter of what they argue are patriarchal and monotheistic condemnations.

Finally, she has a place in vampire lore either as the first and most powerful of the vampires, or at least as their queen. She is sometimes presented as either the daughter or the consort of Dracula. In her role as succubus, she has, of course, particular control of nightmares and erotic dreams. She also rules a horde of other succuba and incubi. "
~~The above information is quoted from Alan Humm~~

11-01-2010, 10:30 AM
On Lilith from

Question: "Who was Lilith / Lillith? Does the Bible say anything about Adam having another wife before Eve?"

Answer: There are legends that Adam had a wife before Eve who was named Lilith, but this is not found in the Bible. The legends vary significantly, but they all essentially agree that Lilith left Adam because she did not want to submit to him. According to the legends, Lilith was an evil, wicked woman who committed adultery with Satan and produced a race of evil creatures. None of this is true. There is no biblical basis whatsoever for these concepts. There is no one in the Bible named Lilith.

The passage most often pointed to as evidence for Lilith is Isaiah 34:14, which in the NRSV reads, "there too Lilith shall repose." This is a poor translation. Every other major translation of the Bible reads something to the effect of "night creature" or "screech owl." Even if "demon monster named Lilith" was the proper translation of the Hebrew word, Adam is nowhere even hinted at in this passage or its context. Whatever the Lilith was, it is not given any connection whatsoever to Adam or Creation.

Another commonly used support for Lilith is the differing Creation accounts in Genesis chapters 1-2. Some claim that the woman in Genesis 1 was Lilith, with the woman in Genesis 2 being Eve. This is completely ludicrous. Rather, Genesis chapter 2 is a "closer look" at the creation of Adam and Eve as recorded in Genesis chapter 1. The Bible specifically says that Adam and Eve were the first human beings ever created (Genesis 1:26-28; 2:18-25). This "Lilith" myth is popular in some radical feminist movements because Lilith is an example of a woman refusing to submit to male headship. While there are myths outside of the Word of God regarding Lilith, her complete absence from Scripture demonstrates that she is nothing more than a myth.

Recommended Resource: The New Creationism by Paul Garner.

11-01-2010, 05:07 PM
Another question and I openly admit I am no expert so some of my info may be wrong, feel free to correct me in a non rude manner, lol :D

Adam and Eve were first man and woman. They had some kids and Cain kills Abel, right? And he is sent away but he comes back with a wife...where did the wife come from?

11-01-2010, 05:18 PM
Cain's wife was probably his sister....when Cain killed Abel he was around 130 years old.

11-01-2010, 05:21 PM
Dang that's old :o Thanks EZ :hug:

11-01-2010, 08:50 PM
Ummm ... I don't want to be confusing anyone here, but did anyone (GARY?) here this theory -- that while Adam & Eve were the first man & woman created, that doesn't mean that there were not other human beings created by GOD in other parts of the earth as well??? The bible doesn't say that they were the ONLY humans created, just the first ...

That would account for the fact that Cain was banished to another land but came back with a wife. I mean, how many kids could or did Eve have, so that one could have wandered away to another land or place; then come back with Cain as his wife later on?

I have always thought that the creation story is about the basic facts of the beginning of the creation of man & woman, but that there may be some other details that were left out (for space reasons) that will be filled in for us when we get to heaven.

And while GARY's hypothesis could very well be correct, the way the story is written, it does kinda make you wonder where these other people that would kill Cain were living, and who they were. Add on top of that -- that he was banished from where his family was and he finds a wife and brings her back later on ... just wondering what you all think about that???

11-01-2010, 11:00 PM
Good questions ROSEBUD and ones we cannot answer for sure...but we do know that Gen. 3:20 says Eve was the mother of all living and tradition says Adam had 33 sons and 27 he lived to be over 900 years old!

And remember...they had no TV! :D

11-02-2010, 07:32 AM
Good questions ROSEBUD and ones we cannot answer for sure...but we do know that Gen. 3:20 says Eve was the mother of all living and tradition says Adam had 33 sons and 27 he lived to be over 900 years old!

And remember...they had no TV! :D


11-02-2010, 03:02 PM
:lol:Ha! Ha! Even if there was No TV Gary , 33 sons and 27 daughters! Eve was not the Mother of all them children was she? If so, she must of been part rabbit! That's a-lot of kids born! I had one daughter 9 pounds 8 ounces natural cannot even imagine going through that 60 times!:spin:

11-02-2010, 08:57 PM
"The Bible does not specifically say who Cain’s wife was. The only possible answer is that Cain's wife was his sister or niece or great-niece, etc. The Bible does not say how old Cain was when he killed Abel (Genesis 4:8). Since they were both farmers, they were likely both full-grown adults, possibly with families of their own. Adam and Eve surely had given birth to more children than just Cain and Abel at the time Abel was killed. They definitely had many more children later (Genesis 5:4). The fact that Cain was scared for his own life after he killed Abel (Genesis 4:14) indicates that there were likely many other children and perhaps even grandchildren of Adam and Eve already living at that time. Cain's wife (Genesis 4:17) was a daughter or granddaughter of Adam and Eve.

Since Adam and Eve were the first (and only) human beings, their children would have no other choice than to intermarry. God did not forbid inter-family marriage until much later when there were enough people to make intermarriage unnecessary (Leviticus 18:6-18). The reason that incest today often results in genetic abnormalities is that when two people of similar genetics (i.e., a brother and sister) have children together, there is a high risk of their recessive characteristics becoming dominant. When people from different families have children, it is highly unlikely that both parents will carry the same recessive traits. The human genetic code has become increasingly “polluted” over the centuries as genetic defects are multiplied, amplified, and passed down from generation to generation. Adam and Eve did not have any genetic defects, and that enabled them and the first few generations of their descendants to have a far greater quality of health than we do now. Adam and Eve’s children had few, if any, genetic defects. As a result, it was safe for them to intermarry."