Carb Counters - Primal/Paleo-ish in October




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Ilene
10-01-2010, 10:07 AM
Hello Gang :wave:

Whassup for October? I need to stay on track more vigilantly :yes: ... I gained one lb this month :frypan: ... When I look back on the first of each month, I lose one, gain one every other month *sigh* ... Will it ever stop?


Mikkijoe
10-01-2010, 12:37 PM
October marks the month where I crack down even more. Watching nuts and cheese, and tracking often to make sure I am on track. I hope to lose 12 pounds this month. Actually I goal is to hit 8, and I really hope to hit 15.....so thats where it is! But then again I have alot to lose.

Tasks for October

1. Measurements weekely, so I dont become a slave to the evil black box in the bathroom
2. Tracking at least 4 times a week to make sure I am in target ranges
3. Supplements of Vitamin D, and maybe Omega 3 (this is a huge task for me)
4. Read more about 3:6 ratio and know the ratio of common foods I eat
5. Get into the habit of packing my lunch
6. 18 hour IF once a week

sparky1946
10-01-2010, 01:15 PM
October is the month where I cut off a leg to get down into the 150s :(


walking2lose
10-01-2010, 06:42 PM
Sandy - no leg cutting!! You will get there!!!

At a super quick glance, I thought Ilene's goals had something to do with virginity - oy!

I am SO very happy it's FRIDAY - what a week!

Heading out for a walk... will post Oct goals later.

Still wishing we had a "like" button like Facebook.

MaddieD
10-02-2010, 03:20 AM
Have been mia due to sick kids and an idiot husband. :mad: After 20 years together you'd think he'd learn from his mistakes...

ANYWAY...Sandy...read about your blood glucose levels. :( My father developed type 2 diabetes in his late 50's and after losing a bunch of weight,was able to take a pill form of insulin. Not really what you want to hear but I agree with the others...don't worry too much about it. I'd even do another test to confirm. As for cutting off your leg...I'm ready to cut off my "girls" and pare down my butt to make it to onderland! Anybody else?!

October goals: -do the Nordictrack ski machine twice a week
-do the exercise bike once a week
-walk 2 km everyday
-up my water to 10 glasses a day
-reach 199 by Halloween

srmb60
10-02-2010, 09:04 AM
I hilited this in GCBC yesterday ...

... cells have the option of using fatty acids or glucose for fuel, but when surplus glucose is available, as signalled by rising insulin or blood sugar levels, the fatty acids are swept into the fat tissue for later use.

This notion has been a revelation for me!
Given its druthers, the body will use that easy fuel first, driving insulin and setting off a spiral of hormonal response that wears us out!
Even though my body has been doing this for many years, I'm confident that I can eat the foods that will help to make it better. Although we may never be teenaged athletes, women "our" age can be much healthier than is the norm. No matter what we've done thus far!

sparky1946
10-02-2010, 10:06 AM
Finally...

sparky1946
10-02-2010, 02:42 PM
Now I can concentrate on progress. My goals:

1. Monitor blood sugar response to meals.
2. Set-up my computer workstation on our treadmill and develop barefoot schedule.
3. Walk daily and bike daily (on my new birthday bike, thanks DH)
4. Get through GCBC.
5. Resolve concerns regarding pre-diabetes with Dr. and finalize treatment program as needed.
6. Plan another 20 gram challenge at month-end to get to low 150s.

PS. My doc suggested I should weigh between 120 and 130. Yikes...

walking2lose
10-02-2010, 04:03 PM
Finally...

LIKE!!!!!!! :D

MaddieD
10-02-2010, 04:08 PM
Finally...

So which leg was it...left or right? ;)

Congrats!!!

sparky1946
10-02-2010, 08:52 PM
I think the combination of raisins and almonds plus tummy ache then 300 carb grams of that crappy orange glucose tolerance drink really through my old body for a loop. It is shocking how one reacts to carbs after a while. I thought this might be the case but I was so depressed with the pre-diabetes possibility and being stuck for two weeks that I wasn't sure.

I broke my IF with a big, juicy ribeye and cabbage to celebrate.

I am not going to have wine except to celebrate something. I think that it really messes with the blood sugar but I do not have my meter yet so I am not sure.

Do you know that you can get different skins to go on your meters? Like it's cool to have the latest glucose test meter and skin. It is an epidemic and it is sad. :(

CJZee
10-03-2010, 08:40 AM
Hi everyone ... back from my Midwestern trip to visit relatives and friends! Sandy ... congratulations on your weight milestone, and so sorry about the diabetes.

I do not have diabetes, BUT two years ago I had one fasting blood sugar of 103, and my doctor very casually told me that if I tested over 100 one more time I would be called "pre-diabetic". He told me I was definitely on my way to diabetes (which runs in my family, even the skinny people.) He acted like it was a foregone conclusion! I decided then and there that I would fight this thing and I have.

That was one of several things which kick-started this journey. I bought a blood-glucose monitor and started Atkins (originally). My blood glucose plummeted and now is in the 60's or 70's fasting and my A1c is 4.8 (you should have him measure your A1c). I still measure my blood glucose frequently and note what spikes it (oranges do it), but now it rarely goes over 100 even after meals.

You may have to tweak your diet somewhat as you seem very low carb. Some people do better with the blood sugar when then average in the 100-carb range, you will have to experiment. Also, I really like the Blood Sugar 101 website for basic info. Here is the link. (http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/index.php)

Good luck to you and hugs. CJ

sparky1946
10-03-2010, 09:53 AM
Oh CJ,:hug:

Thanks so much for sharing this with me. I was hoping that someone else had had the same experience. My doc has not "labeled" me quite yet. I will ask about the A1C next appointment.

How soon after you eat do you test to determine if your blood sugar spikes?
Do you test occasionally in the morning to check your fasting BG or are you going by your doctor visit results? Did you have the glucose tolerance test or does your doctor not prescribe to it as Susan suggests?

I might be asking you many questions going forward, hope you don't mind.

CJZee
10-03-2010, 02:30 PM
How soon after you eat do you test to determine if your blood sugar spikes?
When I first started, I tested at both one and two-hours after eating. Occasionally I'll test three hours after eating just to see if there is some delayed action and how quickly my blood sugar comes down. Now I test usually first thing in the morning and occasionally one or two hours after meals just to make sure there is nothing strange going on. I have been doing this over a year, so I pretty much know how my body reacts.

Do you test occasionally in the morning to check your fasting BG or are you going by your doctor visit results?
I often test first thing in the morning. Going to the doctor once in a while does not provide enough data points to really see how you are doing and to make changes in your own diet. PLUS - your post-prandial (after meals) blood sugar is very important and doctor visits don't record that. Even the HbA1c is an AVERAGE and doesn't record spikes. Remember, you are your own doctor in many respects. My doctor has been amazed and floored at my turnaround in the blood sugar arena. (And weight loss also.) Many doctors seem to just throw their hands up and go into management mode when someone is diagnosed with an illness.

Did you have the glucose tolerance test or does your doctor not prescribe to it as Susan suggests?
I asked my doctor about that test, and he said it wasn't done much anymore. For me, it is more important to see the results of eating "real" food in "real" life. If you look at the website I linked to, she gives you a testing protocol so you can see what actually affects your blood glucose. I would also recommend your doctor do the HbA1c blood test which gives you an idea of where your blood sugar averages over the last 2-3 months.

sparky1946
10-03-2010, 02:43 PM
Thank you so much for your response and the link...I am furiously reading it especially interested in the history of diagnosing women and the higher ranges that were used for so long. My mom was told she was pre-diabetic and when I have answered in health histories that my mom died of a heart attack and she was pre-diabetes, doctors have said there is no such thing. Pre-diabetes has returned, and rightly so, as a diagnosis with most using the term "Impaired Glucose Tolerance" (IGT). Which explains my mom's "no such thing" diagnosis.

I am beginning to think "Thank God" for this discovery as it seems many have to get to the point of organ damage, etc. to get correctly diagnosed. I am going to do as you have done eating-wise with even more emphasis on making this a forever way of eating.

Thank you for your help...

CJZee
10-04-2010, 10:50 AM
Like many of you, I spend quite a lot of time on science-based research, and although I am fairly smart, I am not a scientist. Thus, I rely on blogging "intermediaries" I trust to interpret some of the scientific findings for me.

I know there is a lot of craziness on the internet, but I have found a few sources I like very much, and one is called "The Healthy Skeptic." He has a very active Facebook page (and I rarely use Facebook, but he uses it kind of like a Twitter feed with links to items that he finds are important.) He also has a website (thehealthyskeptic.org) that has a big series on what he calls "diabesity" a combination of diabetes and obesity which might interest you, Sandy.

But today on his website he posted on a new study published in the journal Nutrition which systematically obliterates the government's dietary guidelines that recommend that we "all go on eating the same low-fat, high-carb diet that has contributed to the epidemics of obesity, diabetes and heart disease (among others)."

Anyway, you can read his take on it, and also the entire research article is downloadable as a pdf. This is the link to his blog post.
(http://thehealthyskeptic.org/new-study-blasts-the-ridiculous-low-fat-dietary-guidelines)

MaddieD
10-04-2010, 12:08 PM
Thanks for that link CJZee! Off to read it in a bit.

I am feeling crappy today thanks to junk I ate over the weekend. Cheezies and popcorn and I am REALLY feeling the effects of all that salt. My head is throbbing and I swear I am up 5 pounds in water weight. Good thing is that I am not craving anything but protein and raw veggies...I'm sure my body is cursing me for what I ate.

Off to read that blog!

Karen925
10-04-2010, 08:14 PM
Like many of you, I spend quite a lot of time on science-based research, and although I am fairly smart, I am not a scientist. Thus, I rely on blogging "intermediaries" I trust to interpret some of the scientific findings for me.

I know there is a lot of craziness on the internet, but I have found a few sources I like very much, and one is called "The Healthy Skeptic." He has a very active Facebook page (and I rarely use Facebook, but he uses it kind of like a Twitter feed with links to items that he finds are important.) He also has a website (thehealthyskeptic.org) that has a big series on what he calls "diabesity" a combination of diabetes and obesity which might interest you, Sandy.

But today on his website he posted on a new study published in the journal Nutrition which systematically obliterates the government's dietary guidelines that recommend that we "all go on eating the same low-fat, high-carb diet that has contributed to the epidemics of obesity, diabetes and heart disease (among others)."

Anyway, you can read his take on it, and also the entire research article is downloadable as a pdf. This is the link to his blog post.
(http://thehealthyskeptic.org/new-study-blasts-the-ridiculous-low-fat-dietary-guidelines)

Great link. Forwarding it to a SIL with cholestreol/gout problems and son with Crohn's. I think these auto immune responses are linked and so am interested in current research.

sparky1946
10-05-2010, 12:27 PM
You know, I had heard the concept of carb refeeding and probably still do not understand it. But my couple weeks of unintentional carb increases (raisins and glucose tolerance drink) has kicked in the weight loss again. When I report "I will never be in the 160s again", I know that the first time I get down into a ten pound range through intermittent fasting, I will bounce up a lb or 2 when I start back in eating. But this time I have really not bounced back into the 160s. The first (after IFing) weight was 158.6, the 2nd was 159.0, the 3rd was 159.8, the 4th was 159.2. I am IFing again today so hope to drop another lb. or so down to 157 something.

Keeping track is so interesting...

Does anyone have any experience with carb re-feeding - intentional or unintentional?

sf40
10-05-2010, 09:18 PM
Hello, all,

I’ve been lurking on the primal/paleo thread for a while and thought I would join you. I’ve following the Primal Blueprint pretty closely since the end of August and feel pretty good. Of course I have had a few slip-ups as I transition from a grain-dominated diet to a grain-free diet. OK, it was hard and it is still kind of hard, although I don’t have the cravings I used to have (I just want a slice of cake or a pastry or whatever every now and then). I spend some time at MDA and keep a primal journal and have entered a few of the contests (but have not won anything!!)

Briefly, I am currently about 25-30 pounds overfat and was about 50-60 pounds overfat at my highest (stopped weighing for a while, so I am not sure). I was able to lose weight on a low fat, calorie-restricted diet, but I couldn’t maintain. After trying and trying and trying, I gave up and decided that I would settle for being healthy.

Early this year, my lipids started to become unbalanced (HDL creeping lower and triglycerides creeping higher) and blood pressure was creeping up. On my doctor’s advice, I started adding “good” fats like olive oil, avocados, and small amounts of almonds and macadamia nuts. That was soooo scary for me because I believed fat would make me fatter! Instead, I started to gradually lose some weight. I had already been eating lots of veggies and switched to mostly whole grains, but my diet was still grain-based.

At a re-check of my blood in late July, I learned my lipids had improved somewhat but that I was pre-diabetic with a fasting BG of 103. Just great. The first place I looked was the American Diabetes Association site. Well, their diet guidelines were how I was eating, and it certainly wasn’t doing me any good. It was on the 3fc diabetes support forum that I learned about the blood sugar 101 site. Further research and reading led me to the Primal Blueprint in August.

So while I started reducing grains when I got the news, I was still eating a lot … nearly 200g a day until mid to late August. I shudder to think what I was eating before, because this really felt like an incredible reduction. Towards the end of August, I ditched grains pretty much entirely. My primal journal describes some of my off-plan eating, some planned and some not planned.

I recently had a re-check of my blood and my lipids are pretty good now, except my HDL is still low, but at 46 it is the highest it has ever been. My triglycerides dropped to 30. My fasting BG was 100, so technically I am pre-diabetic, but I ate breakfast at Panera Bread the day before, which may have contributed to this reading. I purchased a BG monitor and plan to start testing myself so I can see what effect different foods have on my BG. Will track this all in my primal journal at MDA. My blood pressure has been consistently good, around 120/80 and sometimes a bit lower.

OK, this turned out to be longer than intended, but I thought I should stop lurking and introduce myself.

sf40
10-05-2010, 09:28 PM
Does anyone have any experience with carb re-feeding - intentional or unintentional?

Hi Sparky,

I don't have any experience with carb re-feeding, but I have heard of it being used by diabetics and pre-diabetics who eat low carb to prepare for a glucose tolerance test. I've heard that when you are not eating a lot of carbs, your body is not able to process them as well (due to using fat for fuel, not glucose), and consuming all that glucose results in a false positive. I thought about this when I read one of your posts from last month about your glucose tolerance test.

I myself have not had a glucose tolerance test, I guess because my fasting BG is low enough. However, I am still concerned and want to make sure my BG doesn't get out of control. But if my doctor ever wants to do a glucose tolerance test, I may consider a carb re-feed to avoid a potential false positive. I wonder if my second fasting BG of 100 was due to an incomplete carb re-feed at Panera Bread the day before - maybe I should have done a re-feed for three days, or avoided grains completely before the test.

sf40
10-05-2010, 09:34 PM
Like many of you, I spend quite a lot of time on science-based research, and although I am fairly smart, I am not a scientist. Thus, I rely on blogging "intermediaries" I trust to interpret some of the scientific findings for me.

I know there is a lot of craziness on the internet, but I have found a few sources I like very much, and one is called "The Healthy Skeptic." He has a very active Facebook page (and I rarely use Facebook, but he uses it kind of like a Twitter feed with links to items that he finds are important.) He also has a website (thehealthyskeptic.org) that has a big series on what he calls "diabesity" a combination of diabetes and obesity which might interest you, Sandy.

But today on his website he posted on a new study published in the journal Nutrition which systematically obliterates the government's dietary guidelines that recommend that we "all go on eating the same low-fat, high-carb diet that has contributed to the epidemics of obesity, diabetes and heart disease (among others)."

Anyway, you can read his take on it, and also the entire research article is downloadable as a pdf. This is the link to his blog post.
(http://thehealthyskeptic.org/new-study-blasts-the-ridiculous-low-fat-dietary-guidelines)

I think I spend too much time reading this stuff and not enough time working! I spent a lot of time reading the articles on "diabesity" last night - fascinating! I also downloaded and printed the article in Nutrition. It's just awful how skewed nutritional advice has been, and based on such flimsy "evidence".

CJZee, I also wanted to thank you for sharing your story with your initial fasting BG of 103. I hope I can report lower numbers in the future, but realize that I will need to really watch what I eat to do so.

sf40
10-05-2010, 09:40 PM
I think these auto immune responses are linked and so am interested in current research.

The research seems to be pointing in that direction. As I read up on diabetes, I often see other auto immune responses discussed. My step-mother has rheumatoid arthritis and I wonder why she has never changed her diet. Her doctor, who is supposed to be one of the best around, has her on an expensive drug instead. I do plan to discuss auto immune responses next time we have a chance to chat.

Ilene
10-05-2010, 10:38 PM
Welcome sf40 :wave: I'm glad you came out of lurkdom you have a lot of great information...

Today I made a great stew I put small potatoes in it but didn't eat any at all... I ran 5k too so it's all good...

I'm svelting!
10-05-2010, 11:05 PM
Does anyone have any experience with carb re-feeding - intentional or unintentional?
Yep. Sandy, I've been doing under 40 g carb since the end of June. A couple of times I've "unintentionally" overindulged on higher carb protein bars (yeah I know, not primal :^: but you may recall I'm a future primalist) which put me between 75 & 100 g carbs for the day. My most recent off-the-rails day was Saturday. I'd been hovering at 210 for about 2 weeks, including that morning. Sunday morning when I stepped on the scale I did a double take, stepped off the scale to see it read zero, and stepped on again. 5 lbs down overnight?? Apparently, and it's holding there. The previous time my weight dropped over 3 lbs. It has me thinking I might do this intentionally every 4-6 weeks.

sf40 Have you followed the links on the Mark's Daily Apple forum to cardiologist William Davis's blog? He posted a great item about HDL and the impact of different lifestyle changes that increase HDL. The most effective one in his practice has been Vitamin D3 (http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2008/08/vitamin-d-and-hdl.html)

My primal status: I've started slowing increasing my fat consumption, I'm now between 40 and 50% of total calories most days, still eating lots of veggies, and eating more meat, fish and eggs to replace the protein powders that have helped drop 54-55 lbs since late June. I expect I'll be posting here more regularly in a month as I transition off my current program.

sf40
10-05-2010, 11:08 PM
Thanks, Ilene! :wave: I feel like I have sooo much to learn, and will share what I know.

Brown, I totally agree with you about the skins for the BG meters. My BG meter came with different skins. I threw them out - who cares?

sf40
10-05-2010, 11:21 PM
sf40 Have you followed the links on the Mark's Daily Apple forum to cardiologist William Davis's blog? He posted a great item about HDL and the impact of different lifestyle changes that increase HDL. The most effective one in his practice has been Vitamin D3 (http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2008/08/vitamin-d-and-hdl.html)

My primal status: I've started slowing increasing my fat consumption, I'm now between 40 and 50% of total calories most days, still eating lots of veggies, and eating more meat, fish and eggs to replace the protein powders that have helped drop 54-55 lbs since late June. I expect I'll be posting here more regularly in a month as I transition off my current program.

Hi, I'm svelting! Yes, I have been reading the heartscan blog! However, I haven't gotten to the vitamin D3 posts yet; will do so tonight! So many people on the MDA forum swear by vitamin D3, that I recently added a small dose daily. I don't have to go back to the doctor until my physical, which is in the spring. I'll be anxious to see what my HDL looks like. I think I will also get my vitamin d levels tested.

Good luck in your transition to primal. And congrats on your weight loss! I, too, eat lots of veggies; more than I ate when I tried going vegetarian in an effort to reduce fat even more and lose weight. I love the primal focus on whole foods and that it is so unstructured ... except no grains! I seem to be pretty happy at about 60% fat. But right now I am focused on getting my BG under control, then I'll focus on getting rid of the last 25-30 pounds. I am hopeful it will just happen on its own, much as the first ~25 came off. :)

srmb60
10-06-2010, 09:10 AM
Morning everybody!

I had a darned good primal day yesterday after schlumping through the weekend with a cold (and donuts). Elliptical, weights and that beautiful salad you can only make the day you bring groceries home ;)

I've not done a structured carb load. If I've had a carb load it was celebratory grain-based baked goods. I'd have to do some reading to see why I would like to do a healthy carb load. Heaven knows I could load up on sweetpotatoes. Gosh they're tasty.

Oh and the results of the muffin on Friday and donuts on Monday? over two pounds and I feel puffy and gassy. Maybe I'll drop off tomorrow morning.

CJZee
10-06-2010, 11:23 AM
Re: carb loading ... I've never done it on purpose, but I have essentially carb loaded during these trips I have been taking because I tend to eat whatever is served me (although not sweets), and that loads me up on the carbs.

I always gain a tremendous amount of weight during the trips (3-10 pounds) even though, calorie-wise, I doubt I am not eating any more. But the weight comes off super-fast, too, so I think it's some sort of temporary storage thing.

Don't know if that helps, but it's just my experience. I don't feel it has helped me actually lose more "real" weight but I am an older person and that may have something to do with it.

sparky1946
10-06-2010, 12:36 PM
Interesting experiences all...

I think I will incorporate a little re-feed every now and then like Thanksgiving and numerous birthdays in the fall.

Did not make it to 157 this morning but did do my first fasting bg test and it was 79. I fasted for 36 hours so I don't know if I should pay any attention to this number. Probably is inaccurate and low.

I can track this on myplate by clicking on the myplateD button. Retains all your info and you can go back and forth.

sparky1946
10-06-2010, 01:30 PM
By the way CJ, I just turned 64... Can't get much older than that.

"Will you still need me, will you still feed me, when I'm 64." ~ Beatles

This was my son's wedding post processional, he's divorced now :(.

Ilene
10-06-2010, 01:38 PM
Re: Carb loading : I've read that carb loading is when you eat lots of carbs -- or course :lol: -- in a day, but a low to no fat day and only clean carbs...

So I consider my weekends that are carb loaded, but loaded with junky and fat loaded carbs, not real carb loading per se.... Just a thought, what do you all think?

sparky1946
10-06-2010, 05:28 PM
I re-read Mark's post (http://www.marksdailyapple.com/carb-refeeding-and-weight-loss/) on MDA and he does not recommend carb re-feeds for overweight folks but for those just trying to lose those last few pounds. So I think I will wait. I know the last ten will be torture and might not even be possible. Don't want to use up all my advanced strategies...

I also haven't started the heavy lifting, sprinting (are you kidding) and other Primal fitness stuff. Just long slow distance and now biking.

You know when you get older, you really don't feel older. You look in the mirror and wonder who in the **** is that old lady. So first time out on my bike (which has brakes on the handlebars) I ran into the recycle bin out in the street. The last bike (50 years ago) I road you peddled backwards to stop lol. My DH laughed and I swore at him. I think the neighbors were all at work.

MaddieD
10-07-2010, 08:07 AM
You know when you get older, you really don't feel older. You look in the mirror and wonder who in the **** is that old lady. So first time out on my bike (which has brakes on the handlebars) I ran into the recycle bin out in the street. The last bike (50 years ago) I road you peddled backwards to stop lol. My DH laughed and I swore at him. I think the neighbors were all at work.

LOL!!! I remember those kind of bikes! Hope you didn't hurt yourself! But yeah...I think we all feel that way. We don't feel our age and wonder how we are supposed to feel. I know I don't feel or act 43. Definitely not 20 something but not 40 something either.

Will be busy for another couple of weeks so will be sparse. I am the secretary for the PTAG and we are doing 2 major fundraisers...which will net us about $15-17 000. Lots of work for lots of $$. Helps our school immensely and it shows in the students test scores.

Have a great day/weekend/week!

I'm svelting!
10-07-2010, 08:36 AM
I also haven't started the heavy lifting, sprinting (are you kidding) and other Primal fitness stuff. Just long slow distance and now biking.

You know when you get older, you really don't feel older. You look in the mirror and wonder who in the **** is that old lady. So first time out on my bike (which has brakes on the handlebars) I ran into the recycle bin out in the street. The last bike (50 years ago) I road you peddled backwards to stop lol. My DH laughed and I swore at him. I think the neighbors were all at work.
Sandy, sprinting could mean something as simple as 3 (or 6 :)) cycles of running full out on a treadmill for 30 seconds then resting till you get your breath back. Or riding your bike full out for 30 seconds then going at a lower pace til you get your breath back. I'll be starting with sprinting in a few weeks, probably at 30-60 seconds. I'm told that our bodies adapt to the demand and that ability to go to more time or more intensity develops quickly. I'll let you know.

Last time I was on a bike, it was with a more athletic friend who wanted to ride trails. I was on her old 10-speed racing-style bike. Between the bike, the trails and my poor biking, I took a major spill. At least, my middle-school nephews thought the bruises and scrapes on my torso were cool. :?: :D

srmb60
10-07-2010, 08:54 AM
My bike is a pedal backwards to brake one. Seriously! Can't have things too complicated for me.

Once in a blue moon I do sorta sprints on the elliptical. I go like mad for the first 20 seconds of a minute then repeat. After a few rounds like that, I just finish out my 20 or 30 minutes at a slow steady pace.

We went out for DH's 50th last night. Pork chops, french fries, beer and cheesecake. I haven't reacted nearly as badly as I did to the donuts the other day.

sf40
10-07-2010, 07:31 PM
Hello, everyone!

Bike riding is one of the activities that my husband and I like to do. We actually own road bikes (and the stretchy clothing required) and I have to say I sometimes feel a little silly because we are just cruising down the bike trail and being passed all the time by "bike gangs".

Every now and then we'll do a "sprint" on the bikes and it's really fun. We're in OK but not great shape, so we go as long as we can, which isn't very long. I also get in sprints on occasion when walking around the neighborhood. I will run just as fast as I can for as long as I can. Again, it's not real long. I'll do two or three of those. Sprinting is so much more fun than jogging, I think.

I need to work on the lifting heavy things aspect of primal fitness. I used to lift weights and I enjoyed it, but am having a hard time getting started.

Re carb-loading: For me, being pre-diabetic and a bit freaky about it right now, I would have to be real careful with any carb-loading. Yeah, I want to lose weight, but my ultimate objective is to be healthy and not get full-blown diabetes. If I have to stay a bit pudgy, so be it. But I do think (hope) that I will eventually lose this excess weight just by getting my eating under control. I've lost about half of what I would like to lose in total just by reducing grains. Alternatively, once my blood glucose is under control, then I will focus on losing weight. :)

rakel
10-09-2010, 12:05 PM
Hi all! I'm new to this group, but not to 3FC. I am not sure how much of a regular I will be become, but I will say that I tend to be all or nothing on something.

Here's a little background about me:

I've always been overweight, ever since I was a kid, but it didn't get totally out of control until high school. Over the course of a couple years I ballooned from 180 to 240, and gained steadily until a few years ago when I decided that something had to be done or I was going to die an early death.

I managed to lose about 35-40lbs although I believe now my efforts were misguided. I severely restricted calories and exercised like a manaiac. Yeah, the weight melted off, but likely at the expense of my muscles and sanity. As soon as I stopped, the weight piled back on and doubled. I have never yo-yo'd before (or much less tried to diet), and decided that if each of my weight loss efforts resulted in gaining even more weight than I would going to be 400lbs before I knew it. Something had to be done.

So I tried a new strategy -- still calorie restriction and exercise, but not as severe. It works, but I easily got off track. I started this in November last year, and have lost and maintained 30lbs. Not bad, but for someone my size, I should be losing more. After I had lost about 20lbs, my husband found some information about grains that I suppose have changed my life. I never really thought of carbs as that unhealthy, I mean, I've heard of Atkins and such, but I always believed that in moderation, everything is OK. Once I cut out things like corn, potatos, and some bread/pasta/rice, I lost another 8-10lbs... but then the breads/pastas/rice caught up with me. Potatos and corn were easy, but the others? Not so much. Everything I eat is based on those three things. Obviously this is going to take a little more effort.

Then I found the Primal Blueprint... and so far, so good. I'm only a few days in and have already lost about 4lbs... and hopefully not muscle! And really, the concept is so stinkin' simple, I can't believe it. I actually feel like once I can get off this carb-dependence this is actually going to be --- dare I say it --- easy???? The hardest part for me is eating socially, or accepting food people present to me. Cooking and preparing for myself? A cinch.

We'll see how I feel a month from now... but really, I feel positive!

srmb60
10-09-2010, 04:21 PM
Welcome Rakel!

Ilene
10-10-2010, 09:11 AM
:welcome: Rakel!!

Bombe
10-10-2010, 08:01 PM
Hi all! :wave:

I feel the need to give a quick introduction as I would like to become a regular on the paleo-thread!

I've always been a calorie counter and usually ended up eating a relatively moderate/sometimes high carb diet. I struggle with my weight loss and I'm think it's because of WHAT I'm eating, not how many calories I'm eating. My original goal was to just cut out most processed foods and start cooking more, I've been doing mostly well with that approach the past month but I want to look even more closely at what I'm eating.

I just started the P90X program and although I've decided not to strictly follow the diet I did read through the nutritional guide and basically what it promotes is a low carb, high protein diet with lots of veggies, lower amounts of fruit and a good dose of healthy fats. From what I've gathered online about the paleo-type diet the P90X diet is pretty similar.

So I'm making a go at this. My biggest challenge will be bread, which I love. Beans are also very high on my list of challenges because I love them so. Rice, pasta and sugar will be pretty easy on me because I don't particularly like rice or pasta and I've always been very aware of my sugar intake rarely eating any sweets and diligently shopping for foods without any added sugars (do you know how hard it is to find a plain tomato sauce without any added sweeteners? sheesh!). I simply don't have a sweet tooth so I guess I have that going for me!

As I've read through more and more sites that are about the paleo diet I find myself sitting here nodding and thinking "this just makes logical sense!" I think I can follow this and I think I can enjoy it.

I look forward to getting to know everyone that frequents these threads and I'm open to any and all tips, bits of advice or words of encouragement!

srmb60
10-11-2010, 09:41 AM
Welcome Bombe!

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

Ham in the crockpot!

Mikkijoe
10-11-2010, 12:25 PM
Welcome Bombe and Rakel!

We need some fresh meat around here !;);)

The best tip I can give for getting on PB is to stay away from ALL sugar and grains and beans and processed foods for at least 2 weeks......dont even try to take one bite of something breaded--or even fried at a restaurant. IF you can get you system clean you will stop craving that piece of toast or those potatoes, etc! But a couple bites of ice cream, or a breaded chicken breast can throw me into a tail spin of cravings!

So stick to meats, veg and fruits....makes grocery shopping easy. Make sure you are getting plenty of fats--that keeps you full. Dont think you need to limit your veggies, it takes alot veggies to get to 50 carbs even!

About tomato sauce: go to the Hispanic section of your grocery store. they have several tomato sauces that will be without sugar. Plus they are often much cheaper! If you have a Hispanic grocery store you will also find much better prices on produce there too

CJZee
10-11-2010, 04:49 PM
Hi Bombe! Hi Rakel! I'm so glad you're here.

sparky1946
10-11-2010, 05:16 PM
:grouphug:

Loss two more pounds after fasting. My plateau seems to be moving. But I know there is another one on the horizon. I gotta be strong...:dust:

I have been tracking my fasting blood sugar each morning and it is a little high but not over 100. So I will definitely be asking a lot of questions at the next doctor visit.

Have been taking care of grandkiddies a lot and can see my anxiety rising. I am a solitary type of person who gets anxious when there is a bunch of activity and noise. I love the kids so much but they do exhaust me mentally as well as physically. I tend to want to eat more as well. I am up to 52 carbs today and it is 2:15 pm.

Sigh :?:

sparky1946
10-12-2010, 11:58 AM
Oh-Oh,

Does stress/anxiety cause blood glucose to go up? 119 this am.

Mikkijoe
10-12-2010, 01:07 PM
I would think so, in fact I know my FIL was always high when there was alot of chaos (=kids) around

theCandEs
10-12-2010, 01:10 PM
Hi, Sandy, I'm a lurker here. Yes, unfortunately, stress and anxiety do cause it to go up. Also, have you had some cheese or nuts? Sometimes they will cause a reaction, too. I'm undiagnosed prediabetic. I tested negative on my last BG test because I've cut out the carbs drastically. I will still get a high reading at home, though. It seems to fluctuate a lot. If I could just stick to the no grain approach consistently, then my numbers would probably stay good all the time, but my DH and kids are not doing the diet with me, and sometimes it's really difficult.

walking2lose
10-12-2010, 10:44 PM
Oh-Oh,

Does stress/anxiety cause blood glucose to go up? 119 this am.

Yes! Big time. My husband is a 33+ year type 1 diabetic, and he ALWAYS reminds me of this when we bicker.

Aforementioned husband had an accident a week ago Sunday, and last week was long and tough for us -- he's got 42 staples in one of his legs (gashed from hip to foot). He's turned the corner and is doing better now, but it was harrowing as he had a potential MRSA (came back negative yesterday), and being diabetic, he has to be watched very closely --it would not have been good at all!!

So, that's where I've been. Eating has been so-so, and exercise next to nothing. A little scared to weigh, but I'm trying to get back in the groove this week. Will have to read and catch up later.

Sandy -- GREAT job on the loss - you have lost about 5 lbs. since I was last on 3FC!!!!!

sparky1946
10-13-2010, 10:32 AM
Claire,

Thanks for the information and give your husband a big hug from all of us. I hope he has a speedy recovery. Life certainly throws "stuff" in our way. I believe that forums like this help us get back on track. I know in the past if I had a weight gain, I might have given up, thrown in the towel. But knowing that I have a group of forum friends who will support me, makes all the difference.

Give yourself time to ease back to a routine. You and your family have been through a lot.

I feel bad complaining about 3 beautiful grand children making noise.

sparky1946
10-13-2010, 12:53 PM
Hi, Sandy, I'm a lurker here. Yes, unfortunately, stress and anxiety do cause it to go up. Also, have you had some cheese or nuts? Sometimes they will cause a reaction, too. I'm undiagnosed prediabetic. I tested negative on my last BG test because I've cut out the carbs drastically. I will still get a high reading at home, though. It seems to fluctuate a lot. If I could just stick to the no grain approach consistently, then my numbers would probably stay good all the time, but my DH and kids are not doing the diet with me, and sometimes it's really difficult.

Hi theCandEs,

Please lurk no more ;).

I haven't allowed myself much nuts or cheese or any grain for that matter.

The only difference is that I am babysitting more this month due to my daughter's opportunity to get in a few more hours as a Physical Therapist. She has been a stay at home mom with three kids, the youngest is two. But she had an opportunity (sub for a maternity leave) to work for the place she wants to work at when she returns to work full time, so we didn't want her not to accept it and to get her foot in the door. But it will be almost everyday for the next three weeks. So I am extraordinarily tired. And I have a great desire to pacify myself with food. I have not had cravings for so long that it kind of surprised me :( I can't even say it is cravings for carbs just craving for relief of anxiety.

Anyway. please join us and thanks for your insight.

sf40
10-13-2010, 01:07 PM
Good morning!

I, too, have heard that stress and anxiety can cause blood glucose levels to go up.

Since Friday, I've been testing my blood glucose at home following the protocol on the Blood Sugar 101 website, which is fasting and 1 and 2 hours after eating. So far, no real surprises.

I've been disappointed with my fasting numbers, though, because they have consistently been above 100 and ranging between 110 and 120. Interesting because my two fasting tests done by a lab were 103 and 100. I tested my blood with my own meter at the same time as the second test, and it was 101, so I think the meter is pretty close. I test my fasting at home very early in the morning, between 5 and 5:30am and my lab test blood draws have usually been around 9am, so I wonder if that makes a difference. I have also heard that it could take a few months of proper eating to get fasting levels consistently below 100 and I hope that is the case.

Post-eating readings have been pretty good, quite often below 100 and usually below 120. A bagel with cream cheese and tomato and cucumber slices sent my BG to 157 and 185. Ouch. A restaurant meal consisting of cornbread with butter, pulled pork sandwich with BBQ sauce and the bottom bun only, and mixed green salad with candied pecans and vinaigrette that contained sugar sent my BG to 190 and 174. I felt that lunch, too!

So eating primal is really the way to go for me, primarily to avoid turning into a full-blown diabetic. I also feel so much better eating this way. And weight loss is happening without trying too hard -- I am down to 170.2 this morning. :)

Hope you all have a great day!

CJZee
10-13-2010, 05:19 PM
Good morning!

I, too, have heard that stress and anxiety can cause blood glucose levels to go up.

Since Friday, I've been testing my blood glucose at home following the protocol on the Blood Sugar 101 website, which is fasting and 1 and 2 hours after eating. So far, no real surprises.

I've been disappointed with my fasting numbers, though, because they have consistently been above 100 and ranging between 110 and 120. Interesting because my two fasting tests done by a lab were 103 and 100. I tested my blood with my own meter at the same time as the second test, and it was 101, so I think the meter is pretty close. I test my fasting at home very early in the morning, between 5 and 5:30am and my lab test blood draws have usually been around 9am, so I wonder if that makes a difference. I have also heard that it could take a few months of proper eating to get fasting levels consistently below 100 and I hope that is the case.

Post-eating readings have been pretty good, quite often below 100 and usually below 120. A bagel with cream cheese and tomato and cucumber slices sent my BG to 157 and 185. Ouch. A restaurant meal consisting of cornbread with butter, pulled pork sandwich with BBQ sauce and the bottom bun only, and mixed green salad with candied pecans and vinaigrette that contained sugar sent my BG to 190 and 174. I felt that lunch, too!

So eating primal is really the way to go for me, primarily to avoid turning into a full-blown diabetic. I also feel so much better eating this way. And weight loss is happening without trying too hard -- I am down to 170.2 this morning. :)

Hope you all have a great day!

Hi! I am no expert, but have read quite a bit about high blood sugar. If you have a higher than normal morning reading, and your blood sugar drops when you eat something, it could be one of two things:

1. The Dawn Phenomenon or

2. The Somogyi Effect

My understanding of the Dawn Phenomenon is that, about 3 a.m., everyone's blood sugar starts to rise in preparation for getting up in the morning. If you have blood glucose problems, it just rises too much which is why you have the higher fasting blood sugar. You can try to eat a small snack before bed of protein and a little carb to see if that helps.

The Somogyi Effect is basically your blood sugar is falling too low during the night, so your body takes control of this low blood sugar by pumping it up too much to protect you (hypoglycemia is bad). So, this is an entirely different thing and is the result of untreated nighttime hypoglycemia.

You can look up both these things on the internet. Hope this helps.

wildviolets
10-13-2010, 05:23 PM
I'm excited! So I read this message board faithfully everyday though I haven't lost any weight.....which is fine considering how I'm eating. I try to eat primal and have therefore increased my protein and cut out grains but I do end up eating sweets every now and then. I've also been eating cream, butter, bacon, lard and lots of cheese for the past 4 months. The fact that I haven't gain weight is amazing.

That being said I was really worried about getting my blood tested. I thought for sure my cholesterol and sugar would be bad because I wasn't following primal carefully to gain any benefits and may have hindered my efforts by the sweets and high amount of fat.

Well I'm happy to report that my bloodwork was excellent! I'm so darn excited I could bust. No one would understand this except you all on this board. I am now convinced more than ever that primal is not only a weight loss way of eating but the way to good health.

On a side note, did anyone ever read the book or check out the website, perfecthealthdiet.com? I came acrossed it via the HEalthy Skeptic. He said it was his favorite nutrition book. It's only in ebook form though. Just wondered.

Thanks for letting me blather on about this.....

sf40
10-13-2010, 05:41 PM
CJZee, yes, this is very helpful. Thanks for the info! I will definitely look those two things up.

wildviolets, congrats on your good blood numbers. After just a month of eating primal, my lipids and blood pressure improved. I think it's a wonderful way of eating for health.

I actually ran across the perfect health diet website just yesterday. Interesting that grains are to be avoided as toxins. It shares some similar features with paleo/primal eating, but appears to be lower protein and a bit higher carb, though no grains. I would probably check out the book from the library, if it were available. However, I'm pretty happy with the way I am eating. :)

sparky1946
10-13-2010, 06:37 PM
wildviolets..

I did download the book and read it and it is very similar with the additional of some starches. I told my husband that when we get to goal, I would try to add in some rice (no more than Mark's 20% rule) and he could try some potatoes and see what happens with blood sugar etc. I am kind of a purist. When I buy something, I go full bore and get almost panicky about changing anything.

I am so glad your numbers are great!!! I hope, I hope, I hope...

Congratulations!

Ilene
10-13-2010, 10:45 PM
Wildviolet, I am so happy for your numbers and I was worried about the same thing. I've been avoiding going to the cholesterol clinic because of this fear. Like you I try to eat primal and have increased my protein, cut out grains and I also eat sweets every now along with wine and then been eating cream, butter, no lard or bacon though like you, but lots of cheese, since January. Also the fact that I haven't gain weight is amazing to me too :lol: I had lost weight in the beginning, 8 lbs, but now I fluctuate between 5 and 8 lbs....... All this to say :woohoo: good for you, and maybe I'll be the same :carrot:

CJZ, I will definitely read that ebook, great info...

I just need some advice about something, WARNING TMI AHEAD :lol: ... I don't go to the bathroom every day or two like I used to, it drives me crazy! The only time I really go "well" is after an evening where I've had a glass or two of wine :cheers: It's probably because of the sugar in the wine I'm sure... Otherwise I eat plenty of veggies and fibrous ones too cabbage, romaine lettuce, carrots, turnip, broccoli, some apples, oranges, raspberries with yogurt, the list goes on... I also take flaxseed once in a while... I also drink lots of water! Any suggestions? Or is going once or twice per week my new normal now? TIA...

sparky1946
10-13-2010, 10:56 PM
I used to go "big" every morning like clockwork. Now maybe every other day, very little though.

I try to tell myself that my body is just utilizing all this good food to the max and there is very little residue. I do not feel bloated or constipated at all so I hope everything is working OK.

Ilene
10-13-2010, 11:15 PM
Thanks for the input Sparky, I never thought of it that my body is using all those nutrients to use and burn up... I also don't feel bloated or constipated I feel great...

sparky1946
10-14-2010, 05:54 PM
Ilene...

I absolutely do not know if this is true, just it's what I want to believe. If I had leaky gut or another malabsorption issue, maybe eating this way has improved my handling of food and the before (daily) was a sign of sickness.

I am watching my carbs pretty closely and am not eating nearly what I will be eating veggie and fruit-wise when I reach my goal and do maintenance.
I do not get near the amount of fiber that I used to eat.

I am a bit conflicted about fiber as my low-carb doc recommended Metamucil (psyllium husks). Others have poo-pooed (no pun intended) the need for extra fiber. I have not done enough research yet. I have read that it will help bind up cholesterol and flush it down the drain rather than into/onto my arteries.

Ilene
10-14-2010, 07:59 PM
Ilene...

I absolutely do not know if this is true, just it's what I want to believe. If I had leaky gut or another malabsorption issue, maybe eating this way has improved my handling of food and the before (daily) was a sign of sickness.

I am watching my carbs pretty closely and am not eating nearly what I will be eating veggie and fruit-wise when I reach my goal and do maintenance.
I do not get near the amount of fiber that I used to eat.

I am a bit conflicted about fiber as my low-carb doc recommended Metamucil (psyllium husks). Others have poo-pooed (no pun intended) the need for extra fiber. I have not done enough research yet. I have read that it will help bind up cholesterol and flush it down the drain rather than into/onto my arteries.I've read that cholesterol enters the system through the colon and that we should definitely go to the bathroom and flush it down the toilet... I take ground flax for that same reason, it's very similar to Metamucil...

Did you notice Sandy that the convo came to a dead stop since we've been talking potty :rofl:

CJZee
10-15-2010, 08:59 AM
Hah! Well regarding the current discussion (or lack thereof) ... I think I mentioned my doctor wants me to eat more fiber to get my overall cholesterol down. This even though my good HDL is 71 and my triglycerides are in the 60's, so my ratio is LESS THAN 1! (they want it to be less than 4, so this is spectacular). On the other hand, my overall is a little high, thus the fiber recommendation.

So..... for the last several weeks I have been eating much more fiber, including oat bran and psyllium supplements. I have occasionally also added ground flax to the oat bran (as per dr. recommendations), but flax has so many calories that honestly I would rather spend my calorie budget on something more real to me.

I get my bloodwork done mid-November so will report back then.

-----
ok, before this fiber experiment, I did "go" everyday but very minimal. But I had no problems whatsoever. I would not be doing the fiber thing if it wasn't supposed to be good for lowering cholesterol ... after all, it's just dead plant material, right? My main problem with this new protocol is the oatmeal (a grain) and two fruits a day (at least one being an apple or pear which provide pectin and soluble fiber). I had not been eating grains or just very occasional fruits, certainly not every day. He also wants me to have one square of 85% chocolate and 10-15 almonds every day. The almonds I can control, but I can't have a chocolate bar in the house or it will be gone. Any ideas on single portion chocolates?

theCandEs
10-15-2010, 10:13 AM
Thanks, Sparky, for the warm welcome!

I was lurking over here because I wanted to find out what all of this primal/paleo diet stuff was about. Since realizing I have a carb sensitivity, I've been looking for a diet that I could do and people who are doing it. A lot of people with blood sugar issues seem to be on Atkins. I'm sure it's a good plan, but the book I read about prediabetes seems to recommend something closer to the primal way of eating. Of course, I'm not opposed to stealing some recipes from the Atkins board, too. ;)

As far as the *ahem* current discussion goes, I've been having similar issues. I don't "go" for a few days, and then I have um, well, the opposite of constipation. Maybe I'm getting too much fiber? I don't know. Or maybe I need more fiber for bulk? I tried Benefiber because it is tasteless, but it is made from wheat, so I don't think that is a good idea. I just hate the thought of Metamucil, but a lot of people are okay with it.

CJZee, I think you could try the Dove Dark squares. They are really good, and I did not have a problem just eating one or two squares a day. Unfortunately, my husband would find my stash and eat them all before I could.

sparky1946
10-15-2010, 10:44 AM
Cj,

Yes, please report back on your blood work. I had a finger prick cholesterol check done a month ago and my total cholesterol was sky high, fifty points more than usual. Could have been the finger prick method, or that I am eating so much meat but it kind of scared me that primal is going to be a problem for me.

I am just adjusting to the pre-diabetes scare.

all,

By the way, I need to decide on Byetta. I do not want to be labeled as pre-diabetic but I may have to, to get insurance to help with the cost. I do not need appetite control, which apparently it does very well. I wouldn't mind creating some new beta cells in my pancreas that some say it does and some say it's hype. I would like to prevent damage to organs that higher blood sugar causes. It is supposed to keep that low as well. Does anyone have any experience with it?

I was going to try to get to goal and then check everything and see if just losing weight clears this stuff up. I honestly don't think that my cholesterol will go down enough. But then I do not necessarily buy the cholesterol link to heart disease. I am more concerned with inflammation numbers.

Yesterday, I waited until after lunch (it's getting colder here) to go for my walk. I went about 4 blocks and turned around. I felt like my legs were lead and I was a little dizzy. The grandkiddies have been a little sick and maybe I had a touch of flu. I had earlier taken a very hot bath, and when I got out, I was dizzy as heck. This happens with hot baths but yesterday I went down on my knees. Probably not a good idea. :(

Hope everyone has a relaxing weekend...

rakel
10-15-2010, 11:02 AM
Thank you for the welcome! I always start off so well and after a few days some of the carbs come sneaking in. Mikkijoe, you are so right that once you let a little bite or two in then you start craving it. I need to be extra diligent to just say no!

On the plus side, however, I'm down 2lbs, and have been for the past couple days! I have been eating less food effortlessly, I notice that I haven't been as hungry really.

Ilene
10-15-2010, 11:14 AM
Thank you for the information girls :hug: ... When I get just the finger prick cholesterol test my total cholesterol is high :( ... I would really like to bring that down... Even my HDL is slightly high when I get the real blood test :rolleyes: ... DH has high-ish cholesterol and he's very small and eats very healthy, better than me at times ;)... So sometimes it's just genetics, unfortunately, but we are both fighting those genetics with tooth and nail ...

CJ, I buy the darkest chocolate I can get 85%+, and it's so dry and bitter than I cannot eat more than a small piece... I have a glass of wine sometimes with chocolate and a few almonds, it makes for a really nice treat...:shrug: what can I say I love my wine... Had 3 glasses of wine last night, while watching Grey's Anatomy, and I *went* quite well this morning :lol: ...

theCandEs and rakel :welcome:

sf40
10-15-2010, 11:38 AM
Good morning,

Catching up here ...

Regarding the "poo" conversation, my husband and I were just discussing this morning. I still go daily but the volume is much less and it is less, ah ... TMI? ... unpleasant in several ways. I think if you are not eat lots of garbage food, the need for fiber is somewhat less. Keep in mind that, when eating primal, the biggest volume of food should be vegetables. If you are eating plenty of vegetables, you're probably getting enough fiber.

Cholesterol is a topic that is much discussed on the MDA forum. There is a lot of evidence that suggests total cholesterol really means nothing, high HDL is good, and low trigs are good. LDL is not so simple ... there are large particles and small particles and they can be measured by an additional blood test or estimated based on the various ratios. Apparently, the large fluffly particles are safe and the small hard particles are connected with heart disease. Many family practitioners don't know this and still consider total cholesterol over 200 to be "bad". After two months of reducing grains and eating more fat, with one of those months being primal, my blood improved ... trigs went way down to 30, HDL went up to 46 (still low, but an all-time high for me), and my ratios suggest my LDL is the large fluffy type. I'm taking vitamin D3 and fish oil to try to get my HDL up. CJZee, I know I would not add oatmeal and fiber supplements daily (being pre-diabetic); I would just go with more green veggies.

This morning I had my best fasting BG yet: 98. So glad to be out of the 100s. I had three days of good primal eating, with a bit of rice Tuesday evening and a couple of bites of bread last night. So I am not sure if the lower BG this morning was due to those three days, or the fact that I ate dinner at 9:00pm. That's the beauty of tracking, I guess, I can look for patterns and figure it out.

Chocolate is one of my favorite things to eat. I used to eat way too much milk chocolate and now I find Trader Joe's Dark Chocolate Lover's Bar 85% to be just right. I heard that Cost Plus has a 99% bar that's pretty good. I plan to buy one and try it out. That might be bitter enough that one or two squares a day is fine. :)

Inflammation is also more of a concern to me than cholesterol, etc. I am hoping that by finally caring for myself, my inflammation will go down and my pre-diabetes will just go away. I don't ever plan to go back to being the carb-junky I used to be (seriously, grains were the dominant part of my diet), but I would like to eat a piece of cake or a pastry or a bagel once in a while without sending my BG soaring to nearly 200. Maybe someday. I think I finally figured out eating for me, as I feel much better than ever before and the weight continues to slowly come off. It's amazing ... I tried so hard on low fat, restricted calorie diets to lose weight and I couldn't. I can't believe it's happening now.

Hope everyone has a great Friday and weekend!

CJZee
10-15-2010, 12:50 PM
... Even my HDL is slightly high when I get the real blood test :rolleyes:

Having a high HDL is good! That's the good cholesterol, it sucks up the bad stuff I guess.

sparky1946
10-15-2010, 01:45 PM
Ok enough of this poop, diabetes and cholesterol talk. :)

I am thinking stress/anxiety does bad stuff to me and my ability to lose/maintain weight. I was checking into yoga for two reasons. I breathe very shallowly and I have never been flexible but now I am just stiff as a board. I bought a 24" bike 'cause I couldn't lift my leg easily over the 26" girls frame. That is pathetic.

But, 'cause I am so stiff, I am intimidated to go to a class unless it is a senior, a disabled or a chair(yikes)class. I found some and am still intimidated. I have a couple yoga for older folks tapes and may start with these until I gain confidence. I have "performance anxiety". Can't even write a check in front of folks without messing up. I know this plays into my self-consciousness. Like anyone would be looking at me.

I really do not understand the difference between the types of yoga. I want something that focuses on breathing, stretching and meditation as opposed to doing poses that require balance and strength. I would want that eventually. Does anyone do yoga?

wildviolets
10-15-2010, 03:01 PM
I think Ilene is the yoga expert......I just started taking a yoga class and I LOVE LOVE LOVE it! I'm am so stiff and uncoordinated and sometimes I even giggle at myself when I'm trying the poses because I'm self Conscious. But I have to tell you Sandy....this I know for sure.....no one cares. Everyone else in the class is busy concentrating on themselves to even care. Find a good class with a good teacher....ours comes around and helps us with the poses and she's ALWAYS helping me. I don't even care anymore.

I was just thinking yesterday how this yoga class is almost like getting a massage .....it feels so good. Sometimes I even feel like crying because all the stress and tension comes out of my body by the end of the class.

sparky1946
10-15-2010, 06:33 PM
I was just thinking yesterday how this yoga class is almost like getting a massage .....it feels so good. Sometimes I even feel like crying because all the stress and tension comes out of my body by the end of the class.

Wow... what "kind" of yoga is it? :cloud9:

CJZee
10-16-2010, 09:07 AM
LDL is not so simple ... apparently, the large fluffly particles are safe and the small hard particles are connected with heart disease.

CJZee, I know I would not add oatmeal and fiber supplements daily (being pre-diabetic); I would just go with more green veggies.

Chocolate is one of my favorite things to eat. I used to eat way too much milk chocolate and now I find Trader Joe's Dark Chocolate Lover's Bar 85% to be just right. I heard that Cost Plus has a 99% bar that's pretty good. I plan to buy one and try it out. That might be bitter enough that one or two squares a day is fine. :)


Thanks for all the great info and comments on cholesterol, fiber and ... chocolate!

I'm so undecided whether to follow this doctor's guidelines on the cholesterol. I went to him specifically to lower cholesterol without medication, but I'm unhappy I have to be less primal.

He says veggies just won't replace the oat bran, etc. because veggies have insoluble fiber and oats, psyllium, etc. have also soluble fiber which is apparently the stuff that sweeps out the cholesterol. He also wants me to cut out most saturated fat and do low-fat everything, sigh, also no eggs just egg whites, double sigh.

The other thing, which I disagree with and doubt I will do, is he wants me to go very low calorie, 1000-1200/day. I have been eating 1500-1800 a day and losing slowly on that, and am scared to death to lower my metabolism. I so don't want to be stuck eating 1000-1200 day just to maintain. I tried to explain this to him, but I don't think he heard what I was saying. He just kept repeating I didn't have to stay that low forever, what's that have to do with the price of tea in China?

He did a VAP cholesterol test which measures everything six ways to Sunday (you can look it up on the internet) and everything but my LDL (and overall) is fabulous, and even my LDL is the Type A pattern (large, fluffy, more benign). This doctor understands all that and he still thinks it's important to try and lower my cholesterol some (it's 255, LDL 130), so I'm going to do the diet for awhile except I haven't lowered my calories so much. One of the reasons I have lost almost 90 pounds thus far is the feeling that I CAN eat and I don't want to mess with that delicate mental balance.

Re: the chocolate. Maybe I'll have my fiance hide some and just dole it out to me. One thing I did before this doctor was buy some "Attune" dark chocolate which has probiotics built in. I just had one small bar of that per day because I didn't want to overdose on the built in probiotics. It's expensive but I'll probably do that because I was able to control it before.

Any comments on this new diet or suggestions? Always welcome. Thanks. CJ

I'm svelting!
10-16-2010, 01:02 PM
Aaah, I have some time to read and post this morning! :)
He [my doctor] also wants me to have one square of 85% chocolate and 10-15 almonds every day. The almonds I can control, but I can't have a chocolate bar in the house or it will be gone. Any ideas on single portion chocolates?
I've used Lindt 70% individually wrapped squares very successfully. I could nibble a piece, let it melt and make a single square last close to 10 minutes. A personal best in slow chocolate consumption!

The other thing, which I disagree with and doubt I will do, is he wants me to go very low calorie, 1000-1200/day. I have been eating 1500-1800 a day and losing slowly on that, and am scared to death to lower my metabolism. I so don't want to be stuck eating 1000-1200 day just to maintain. I tried to explain this to him, but I don't think he heard what I was saying. He just kept repeating I didn't have to stay that low forever, what's that have to do with the price of tea in China? ... Any comments on this new diet or suggestions?
Could you stay at the lower end of your comfort range for a few weeks (maybe have a new "bracket" of 1400 - 1600?) and see how that feels. If you feel okay and that the change is manageable, you could counter-offer to meet the doc halfway for 6 months. If the halfway (on the calories) doesn't produce results after 4-6 months, you switch to his full recommendations. (I bet you won't have to do that. :D)

Your compliance with a higher calorie plan will be better over the long term than many of his other patients who follow the lower cal & higher carb plan for the short time and then crash and binge.

Also, I've done psyllium as a before bed supplement, usually with some chilled flavorful herbal tea. It's not the most appealing thing to consume, but does get the insoluble fibre count up. It's probably best to do it well after (2-3 hours) eating.

===
I'm slowly increasing my fat consumption with coconut oil, butter and cream. This week I've been consistently around 40% of total calories, up from 30% in September. I have to say that I feel much more satisfied and have fewer cravings when I do this.

sf40
10-16-2010, 01:06 PM
Gosh, CJZee, what a dilemma.

It sounds like your doctor is advising you to eat totally non-Primal. Good for him for ordering the VAP test, though. So even though your LDL is pattern A he is still worried? It's kind of annoying that so many doctors' answer to everything is "eat low fat".

I think I remembered reading that you had one abnormal fasting BG reading, but you have successfully kept your BG normal. Based on everything I have read, I am way more scared of diabetes complications (including heart disease) than cholesterol. But that is me ... struggling to get my BG under control.

Maybe you can compromise ... keep your calories up (I agree with you about that, I would be miserable on that small amount of calories), back off a bit on the fat, and add a little oatmeal. However, by reducing fat and adding grains, you may need to reduce calories a little. You should also test your BG to make sure that isn't affected. I am sure your doctor would not want you to develop diabetes just to get some number a little lower.

In the end, it really is up to you. You have to weigh the risks and benefits of different ways of eating. There is some credible evidence that suggests your doctor's dietary advice isn't terribly sound, but it is scary to go against the advice of experts.

MaddieD
10-16-2010, 03:08 PM
Holy Moly! I go off to raise some $$ for our school and come back to 3 pages of posts! Took me an entire cup of tea to get through them. ;)

Won't get into the poo discussion...we'll let that die a natural death...but really glad to read some of the tips. Yoga...gotta try that, sounds fabulous and exactly what I need. Chocolate...I'm in the eat the whole bar or nothing group so no help there I'm afraid. HDL,LDL,BG,FBG....wow...lots of info...sorry I can't contribute anything positive on that end. Guess I have been "lucky" so far with everything within "normal" range.

Fundraising has thrown me off the wagon with a huge thud. I am presently dusting myself off and getting back on. One thing I know is I have felt awful for the past week (thanks to sugar and flour ) :( so I am eager to ditch the crap and start feeling better.

Still have another fundraiser scheduled for this week so I'll be back Saturday-ish.

sparky1946
10-16-2010, 03:49 PM
Yoga for Old Broads...

OK, I started my home video Yoga for Seniors program and got through 16 minutes until we had to go down on the floor into lunges. Enough for today :)

So I guess my plan is to try to get a few more minutes each day until I can do the entire 50 minutes comfortably. (may take years :( )

I will then tackle the Yoga for Menopausal Broads. Which looks way harder...

Now if any of you object to the term Broad, remember I am from the generation that fondly remembers South Pacific where the sailors sang "there is nothing like a Dame" and "she's broad, where a broad, should be bro..aaaaaaad!"

At the time, I made Twiggy look well-fed. I wore socks up to my knees to hide my skinny legs, wore long-sleeve shirts to hide my boney arms, and padded bras, stuffed with Kleenex. I wanted so much to be a Broad!

Boy did my wish come true.... It is funny, I still think of myself as that skinny little girl.

wildviolets
10-16-2010, 06:32 PM
Hey Sandy....I dont' know what kind of yoga I am doing.....I went again today. It just feels so good to me because I'm so tense and unflexible but the class just makes me feel so hopeful and appreciative of my body if that makes sense.
However if someone showed me a video of myself I would probably die of embarassment because I'm large and awkward. We did shoulder stands today and I felt like my breast were going to choke me!
Just keep with it and I think you will get hooked. I wish my husband would try it.....I think it would be great for his stress and for his overall health......but no such luck.....yet.

theCandEs
10-17-2010, 02:23 PM
CJZee, I've done a lot of research, and I think your doctor is wrong. It's up to you, but I would not listen to him. If you want to add some oatmeal, I don't see anything wrong with that, but I think it is better to eat primal. Overall cholesterol numbers are not what you need to worry about. Triglycerides are more of a concern than cholesterol. I have a degree in Nutrition and Food Science from years ago, and a lot of what I was taught seems to be wrong. One thing they did tell us, trans-fat is bad, and salt is not all that bad, is the only thing that turned out to be right. Doctors were taught the same things (such as grains should be a mainstay in your diet), and we believed it, but evidence is not showing that to be true. With your HDL at 70 and Triglycerides at 60, that is fabulous!

CJZee
10-17-2010, 03:48 PM
CJZee, I've done a lot of research, and I think your doctor is wrong. It's up to you, but I would not listen to him. If you want to add some oatmeal, I don't see anything wrong with that, but I think it is better to eat primal. Overall cholesterol numbers are not what you need to worry about. Triglycerides are more of a concern than cholesterol. I have a degree in Nutrition and Food Science from years ago, and a lot of what I was taught seems to be wrong. One thing they did tell us, trans-fat is bad, and salt is not all that bad, is the only thing that turned out to be right. Doctors were taught the same things (such as grains should be a mainstay in your diet), and we believed it, but evidence is not showing that to be true. With your HDL at 70 and Triglycerides at 60, that is fabulous!

Thank you for your thoughts. The sad thing is, I thought I was doing wonderful with my bloodwork based on my HDL at 71 and Triglycerides in the 60s. But cholesterol is so complex, there are so many components to it, I don't feel totally qualified to self-diagnose.

I went to this doctor (who is supposed to be sort of an 'alternative' doctor) thinking that he would be more open-minded than my regular doctor who just wants to put me on a statin. But I think this guy just has a different agenda than the traditional guy.

You see, he is wedded to his low-fat, low-carb, low-calorie diet. Of course, I agree with the low-carb part, but not the low-fat and low-calorie part. He told me about how much weight people are losing on his diet and I looked at him like he was nuts and said, "Of course people are losing weight on 1000-1200 calories a day!" He didn't appreciate that.

I think he just wants to publish this diet as a book or a research paper. I also don't think he "heard" me. For example, I told this doctor very firmly when I first met him that I was very happy with my weight loss program, and I was only interested in lowering my cholesterol. On my second visit, he stated that I came to him to help with weight loss -- so he didn't even hear me before when I told him specifically I did NOT want help with weight loss, I was happy with how I have lost 90 pounds on my own plan.

It's really really hard to fly in the face of TWO medical doctors, though, who both seem to think that despite my great HDL and low triglycerides and Pattern A LDL that I still need to work on the 255 cholesterol.

So, in the short term until my mid-November appointment, what I've decided to do is this:
Eat the oat bran.
Use no-fat Fage yogurt and no-fat cottage cheese.
Quit eating eggs.
Use less fatty cuts of meat, chicken without skin, etc.
Eat the 2 servings of fruit per day, sticking with low-sugar fruits.

I am not going to cut my calories that low, but I will try to stick around 1500 or less. That was my previous low, and now I will try to make it my high. In terms of cholesterol, should calories make that much difference?

I am also going to watch my blood glucose carefully. I have done fabulously lowering my blood sugar with the primal diet and don't want to back pedal.

Thanks for your thoughts. I hope I am doing the right thing.

sparky1946
10-17-2010, 06:37 PM
CJ,

I pray that you do not get any cravings back. It is so easy to stay on Primal with the high fat allowance. I do not know if higher lean protein would be a good substitute.

I will be anxiously waiting to hear how you do because I just know my regular doc will be very upset with my higher LDL and Total Cholesterol numbers that I imagine I have from eating pork steak, bacon etc.

I do not intend to go back to him until I get to goal 'cause I just do not want to hear it. I need to get the weight off!!! I think then it might take a while for my numbers to catch up to the new slimmer me. Of course, I do not know this for a fact, another thing I just want to believe. I can't have abused my body for 50 years and expect everything to be great in a year or so.

I think you have made such great progress with your weight-loss. It would be a crying shame if you stalled or put on weight. Not to mention dealing with emotions such as anger, sadness, desperation and hopelessness (I am projecting). With your numbers, I do not see why he cannot let you get to goal and then reevaluate. I would kill for your HDL and TG. Your blood sugar is in control. I just don't understand.

Now I am getting mad....

theCandEs
10-17-2010, 07:13 PM
CJZee, I understand he's your doctor, so you want to do what he says. Let us know how it works out. :hug: I have pre-diabetes, too. That is why I needed a plan I could do, and that is what prompted all of this research of mine. I wanted to be sure I was doing the right thing. My blood glucose and cholesterol numbers both came back normal, and my blood pressure is finally normal (something I have also had a problem with). I plan on calling the office to find out the numbers since they didn't tell me in their note (what a waste of paper).

Sparky, that is probably a good idea not to go back. I would hate to be put on meds when cholesterol is not really a problem.

CJZee
10-17-2010, 07:33 PM
CJ,

I pray that you do not get any cravings back. It is so easy to stay on Primal with the high fat allowance. I do not know if higher lean protein would be a good substitute.

I will be anxiously waiting to hear how you do because I just know my regular doc will be very upset with my higher LDL and Total Cholesterol numbers that I imagine I have from eating pork steak, bacon etc.

I do not intend to go back to him until I get to goal 'cause I just do not want to hear it. I need to get the weight off!!! I think then it might take a while for my numbers to catch up to the new slimmer me. Of course, I do not know this for a fact, another thing I just want to believe. I can't have abused my body for 50 years and expect everything to be great in a year or so.

I think you have made such great progress with your weight-loss. It would be a crying shame if you stalled or put on weight. Not to mention dealing with emotions such as anger, sadness, desperation and hopelessness (I am projecting). With your numbers, I do not see why he cannot let you get to goal and then reevaluate. I would kill for your HDL and TG. Your blood sugar is in control. I just don't understand.

Now I am getting mad....

Hi Sandy -- you have touched on the thing that scares me most about this plan and that is the mental aspect of it. It is so easy to get demoralized, especially when doctors do not seem to recognize what I view as some great accomplishments with my weight and blood sugar control.

The thing I love about low-carb is the lack of cravings and the feeling that I can eat if I need to without going into that horrible spiral. The foods we eat on primal somehow just do not contribute to "falling off the wagon" as they say.

Everything I have been reading says natural fats are good for you, and they certainly stop me from turning to the carby, sugary enemy. I will not hesitate to drop this "diet" if I seem to be losing control.

Thanks for your righteous indignation and for the "props" on my HDL and triglycerides and blood sugar. Makes me feel a little better. CJ

sparky1946
10-17-2010, 08:21 PM
I will not hesitate to drop this "diet" if I seem to be losing control.
CJ

That's what I wanted to hear!!!

We know our bodies better than the docs. I probably shouldn't be encouraging you but I honestly feel your numbers are great and that cholesterol does not determine heart attack risk. I read that if you do a heart scan on folks whose cholesterol is high, you will catch 50% of the future heart attack victims. If you only check folks who have normal cholesterol, you will catch 50% of the future heart attack victims.

I am going to have a heart scan when I get down to goal as well. That seems to be the definitive screening and even then, you can supplement to reduce your score with extra fish oil, l-carnitine, niacin etc. based on your lipoprotein measurements (the VAP stuff). Those inflammation markers can be reduced by correct eating and supplementation. Sometimes a statin is a last resort but certainly not a first.

I actually feel pretty good about what I am doing.

I just had a MORBID THOUGHT.... Ever since Bob left us, I have been worried that he died. I have tried to find him, looking in directories near Death Valley. Don't know his last name so that makes it a little tough.

I would like all of us to tell our husbands that if something happens, for them to go online (after a period of mourning, of course) and tell the rest of us. With my inflammation, I could technically go at any time :).

I am not afraid of dying 'cause I believe in an afterlife. I am afraid of being in a lot of pain or incapacitated. Losing a leg to diabetes is much more frightening to me.

CJZee
10-17-2010, 10:25 PM
That's what I wanted to hear!!! We know our bodies better than the docs. I probably shouldn't be encouraging you but I honestly feel your numbers are great and that cholesterol does not determine heart attack risk. I read that if you do a heart scan on folks whose cholesterol is high, you will catch 50% of the future heart attack victims. If you only check folks who have normal cholesterol, you will catch 50% of the future heart attack victims. Hah! I love your encouragement!

I am going to have a heart scan when I get down to goal as well. That seems to be the definitive screening and even then, you can supplement to reduce your score with extra fish oil, l-carnitine, niacin etc. based on your lipoprotein measurements (the VAP stuff). Those inflammation markers can be reduced by correct eating and supplementation. Sometimes a statin is a last resort but certainly not a first. I actually had a heart scan about 6 months ago and my score was "3" which I understand is very low.

I actually feel pretty good about what I am doing. And you should!

I just had a MORBID THOUGHT.... Ever since Bob left us, I have been worried that he died. I have tried to find him, looking in directories near Death Valley. Don't know his last name so that makes it a little tough. I worry about him too. After the gout episode, he just dropped off the board. I especially worry because he said he would rather die than stay fat (not me).

I would like all of us to tell our husbands that if something happens, for them to go online (after a period of mourning, of course) and tell the rest of us. With my inflammation, I could technically go at any time :).
Do you have high inflammation? How do you know?

I am not afraid of dying 'cause I believe in an afterlife. I am afraid of being in a lot of pain or incapacitated. Losing a leg to diabetes is much more frightening to me.
We are all here to get healthy, and we are.

CJZee
10-17-2010, 10:27 PM
CJZee, I understand he's your doctor, so you want to do what he says. Let us know how it works out. :hug: I have pre-diabetes, too. That is why I needed a plan I could do, and that is what prompted all of this research of mine. I wanted to be sure I was doing the right thing. My blood glucose and cholesterol numbers both came back normal, and my blood pressure is finally normal (something I have also had a problem with). I plan on calling the office to find out the numbers since they didn't tell me in their note (what a waste of paper).

Sparky, that is probably a good idea not to go back. I would hate to be put on meds when cholesterol is not really a problem.

Thanks for your kind thoughts (is your name Candace?) I just want to be healthy. It is frustrating that things that makes so much sense online are not supported by the docs.

sf40
10-17-2010, 11:55 PM
I think he just wants to publish this diet as a book or a research paper. I also don't think he "heard" me.

This concerns me. There is an article in the November Atlantic that touches on this - biased medical research and shoddy recommendations in order to get published, promoted, blah, blah, blah. I am feeling very stupid and cannot figure out how to post a link, otherwise I would.

Anyway, you know how I feel. I am glad to hear that you will get off this diet if it doesn't feel right. I suspect you'll be back to primal soon. I would love to have your HDL and to have my fasting BG under control. I sense you will do the right thing for you!;)

sf40
10-18-2010, 12:03 AM
Chocolate Report

OK, I went to Cost Plus and purchased very important items - chocolate and red wine! Hubby and I had a little chocolate tasting session for dessert last night.

First, we each had a square of the 99% chocolate from Cost Plus. It is their own brand and $1.99 for a large bar. I thought it was good, but I am a dark coffee, dark beer, intense red wine kinda gal. Hubby didn't like it. However, it was so intense that I was easily able to stop at only one-half of a square, even though I ate my whole square.

Then we each had a square of Trader Joe's Dark Chocolate Lover's 85% bar. It's roughly the same size bar as the Cost Plus bar and $1.49. This tasted very sweet and fruity after the 99% bar. This is what I usually eat, and if I eat three squares I feel like I have really treated myself.

The final bar that we tasted was the Cost Plus 64% with sea salt. Sadly, this was my favorite and I just about finished it off today. Probably won't be getting another one of those for a while. I love the combo of salty and sweet ... mmmmm.

We saw a bar of bacon and dark chocolate that looked oddly appealing (salty and sweet). I may have to buy it next time I'm at Cost Plus, just to try. :D

wildviolets
10-18-2010, 08:37 AM
Hi CJZee...I've been in your shoes before. It's hard when you look up to a doctor/authority and then come to find that you may know more than they do.

I'm having this problem now. I joined this free health assessment/program that my husband's company has just so I could have a chance at winning a free IPad. Anyway all it consists of is a monthly phone call from a health professional to discuss my health problems. So far I just tune her out because I can tell she is reading from her computer screen and it's stuff I already know about (migraines, perimenopause, etc). This month we move on to my weight and it's all about more grains, less fat, more exercise, less calories. I guess I'll just let her say her schpiel (sp?) and I'll do whatever I want and hopefully have some progress to show her. I guess that sounds rude and I mean no disrespect to this woman but I truly don't agree her.

I agree with most of you on this board that this way of life truly does seem to be the healthiest way to live and the weightloss is bonus.

CJZee, just hang in there and keep us posted.

Sandy, I too often wonder about Bob. If you ever find anything out, let us know. I hope he is doing well.

sf40: Did you ever try those chocolate/coconut oil candies? The recipe is in the primal recipes thread. I make them all the time and think they are delicious. Of course I use stevia in mine though because I need the added sweetness. Just a thought.

sparky1946
10-18-2010, 09:16 AM
Speaking of missing persons...SUSANnnnnnnnnnn!

sparky1946
10-18-2010, 09:40 AM
[QUOTE=CJZee;3526018]I actually had a heart scan about 6 months ago and my score was "3" which I understand is very low.


A heart scan of 3!!!! For crying out loud. That is also amazing!! The guy is in it for a piece of the diet scam money or a testimony for his book. Or worse yet, he actually believes the crap he is recommending. Which means he could harm a lot of folks.

My inflammation markers are high: high C-Reactive protein, High Homeosistene (sp), High Lp(a) - genetic, and high apo thingy. My glucose has been going up as well as my a1c. My HDL is good, could be a little higher. My Pattern is A, large fluffy. My Trygl. bounced all over the place in the past but are now down to 114 and could go lower the longer that I am on Primal. I also had a CIMT (carotid artery scan). One side is clear and the other has some blockage. I am 64 and have the arteries of a 70 year old, before I began Primal. We shall see.

I just finished Dr. Davis's book on Tracking Your Plaque. Because I already know my lipoproteins (all the stuff above). I am putting together my supplement plan to address those markers even before I get a scan.

The Lp(a) is inherited and is the toughest to fix. Bio-Identical hormones are said to be one of the only things to lower the number. So I am going to see my little Asian gyn. tomorrow. She is so tiny and smart. And I trust her to interpret my tests.

One more odd thing. My husband is 70. His testosterone has been decreasing slowly over the years into the way low area of the chart. His last test (he's 75% primal) shows him back into the normal range. Yikes!!!

If all of a sudden my ovaries start kicking out Estrogen, I will absolutely believe this diet is the fountain of youth.

Mahalia
10-18-2010, 10:35 AM
Hi gang!

I've been lurking on this thread for awhile. I have always been a calorie counter, but just finished reading Good Calories and Bad Calories and have been experimenting with low carb. I've read atkins, looking at Primal/Paleo etc. For the last two months I've been eating low/slow carb, and I've gained a couple of pounds. I really think this is the way to go, and I'm hoping you can help me figure out what I'm going wrong.

I eat meet (more chicken and turkey than red, but enough red meat), lots of vegetables, except for potatoes. I rarely have a sweet potato. Will have some fall squash. I have one or two servings of fruit a day, but no more, and often only one serving of fruit. I eat no wheat, rice, grains, sugar, or sugar substitutes.

I have been eating a lot of nuts and drinking a fair amount of wine. Do you all think that might be what's getting me?

Do you all do portion control or calorie counting along with your Paleo/Primal-ish lifestyle?

I'd really apprecaite any feedback!

sf40
10-18-2010, 02:04 PM
One more odd thing. My husband is 70. His testosterone has been decreasing slowly over the years into the way low area of the chart. His last test (he's 75% primal) shows him back into the normal range. Yikes!!!

If all of a sudden my ovaries start kicking out Estrogen, I will absolutely believe this diet is the fountain of youth.

I have to share this. I am 45 years old and my cycle has been all over the place the past year. I've had crazy symptoms and was convinced I was ending peri-menopause (which I thought I was in for about the past six or seven years ...) and entering menopause. Since reducing grains about two months ago, my last two cycles have normalized and I'm not sure I am even in peri-menopause right now, let alone approaching menopause. I think I had a lot of weird little problems that are self-correcting now that I am eating better foods (no grains!). Maybe, just maybe, this pre-diabetes will go away!

sf40
10-18-2010, 02:08 PM
Hi Mahalia,

I was ravenous when I first gave up grains. Probably due to addiction. I allowed myself to eat until I got over the "withdrawal". And I gained a pound or two, but that weight is now long gone.

How long ago did you eliminate grains? How are you feeling? Getting hungry is not good, so you should eat. That being said, it's important to be mindful of calories to some extent. (I don't count anymore, but if I gain or stall, I pay attention to what I eat.) You may want to scale back a bit on the nuts and wine and see how that goes. I had to reduce nuts and cheese to lose any weight.

Welcome and good luck!

Mahalia
10-18-2010, 02:20 PM
Sf40, I eliminated wheat two months ago, grains has probably been only two weeks, now that I think about it. I find I'm really not hungry, but I do eat a LOT of nuts. I eat cheese but I don't think I eat so much of that as I do the nuts.

Maybe I will try cutting down on nuts and wine and see if that helps. Does anyone know why nuts are sometimes a problem? They aren't more calorie dense than fat, and they aren't carbs...

I'm svelting!
10-18-2010, 02:25 PM
For the last two months I've been eating low/slow carb, and I've gained a couple of pounds. I really think this is the way to go, and I'm hoping you can help me figure out what I'm going wrong.

I eat meet (more chicken and turkey than red, but enough red meat), lots of vegetables, except for potatoes. I rarely have a sweet potato. Will have some fall squash. I have one or two servings of fruit a day, but no more, and often only one serving of fruit. I eat no wheat, rice, grains, sugar, or sugar substitutes.

I have been eating a lot of nuts and drinking a fair amount of wine. Do you all think that might be what's getting me?
Mahalia, one thing you don't mention is what fats you eat (aside from nuts) and how much. Much as wine is the yummy :T :T if you want to lose weight, you may want to reduce it to 6-12 oz a week.

While nuts aren't carbs, they have carbs. For example, 1 oz almonds (about 24) has 15 g fat, 5 g carbs, 6 g protein.

Mahalia
10-18-2010, 02:34 PM
Svelting,

Good point about the nut carbs. I eat enough of them that they are probably adding up.

I'm eating a lot of olive oil (I love to roast my vegetables in it, and use it for salad dressing). Others fats from from some cheese, I occasionally use heavy cream (last night I made roasted butternut squash with goat cheese and some heavy cream), avocados, and some butter. I'm not really sure how much fat I'm eating, but it seems I'm getting fair amount at every meal.

Breakfast either includes cheese with my eggs, nuts in a small amount of plain yogurt, or sausage as fat. Lunch usually involves olive oil and maybe some cheese, and dinner is similar, but more fat from meat. Definitely lots of olive oil.

My sense is that cheese is ok, but now I'm not sure. It seems like I can eat a whole lot of nuts, but I don't know that I could be inclined to eat enough cheese for the carbs to get me. What is your experience?

I'm svelting!
10-18-2010, 02:38 PM
This concerns me. There is an article in the November Atlantic that touches on this - biased medical research and shoddy recommendations in order to get published, promoted, blah, blah, blah. I ... cannot figure out how to post a link, otherwise I would.

Is this the one you mean? Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/11/lies-damned-lies-and-medical-science/8269/)

To provide a link, copy the URL of the article, then click post a reply, click on the little "globe with the chain" icon, it's the 8th one from the left on my post reply dialog, the row that starts with "B", paste the URL in the box that pops up and click ok or accept and you're done!

Ilene
10-18-2010, 02:47 PM
:wave: Mahalia :welcome: ..... I've been away for the weekend so I need to read and catch up... But I wanted to address that wine and nuts will definitely stall your progress every time I have too much wine I stall...I find I have to be extremely vigilant with wine portion control... I'm not sure WHY nuts stall me too, but I just know that it does :rolleyes: unfortunately :( ... I definitely need to count calories at times just to bring me back to reality...

I drank too much wine and non-Primal foods this weekend but I only gained 1lb, not so bad...

CJZee
10-18-2010, 02:50 PM
I eat cheese but I don't think I eat so much of that as I do the nuts.

I watch both my carbs and my calories ... my software tracks both. Nuts and cheese have two things in common ... carbs AND calories! For me, I find it easy to overeat both.

That said, I would sooner overdose on cheese and nuts than more processed food. I never go into the "death spiral" of voracious uncontrollable appetite with cheese and nuts.

But ... especially for me, a post-menopausal, hypothyroid woman ... calories do count. So, if you're trying to lose weight I would really limit both these food items.

sparky1946
10-18-2010, 02:59 PM
I drank too much wine and non-Primal foods this weekend but I only gained 1lb, not so bad...

I weighed in at 155 this am, Ilene. Are you still 155?

Of course, you are mostly rippling muscles and I am just rippling. :o

You are supposed to be the yoga expert. Can you give any advice on the gentlest, stretchiest, meditiationest type?

I'm svelting!
10-18-2010, 03:03 PM
I'm eating a lot of olive oil (I love to roast my vegetables in it, and use it for salad dressing). Others fats from from some cheese, I occasionally use heavy cream (last night I made roasted butternut squash with goat cheese and some heavy cream), avocados, and some butter. I'm not really sure how much fat I'm eating, but it seems I'm getting fair amount at every meal.
...
What is your experience?
I'm gradually transitioning (over a month or so) from a lower-carb, very-low-fat plan to primal. This week my target is to get my fats up to 50% of total calories. If I have to slurp olive oil or lick coconut oil off a spoon to get it there, so be it.

You might want to track your food for a few (2-3) days on Fit Day or My Plate (livestrong.com) to see what your macronutrient balance is. It could be eye-opening. As I understand it, you don't need to (or even need to want to) do this all the time, it's just a useful check periodically. I use MyPlate because so many foods are already there without my entering them. Others here use or have used FitDay. Thank you, Deity, for Web 2.0!

sparky1946
10-18-2010, 03:12 PM
Welcome Mahalia,

Are you doing any tracking? I use MyPlate on livestrong.com. I am trying to keep my carbs down to below 50 and that usually means my calories are about 1000. I am concerned that I am not getting enough calories and that my metabolism will slow even more. But I seem to consistently lose weight and don't want to change anything. I will try to up the calories some and the carbs to about 100 when I hit goal and start weight lifting.

I also love nuts and cheese but I just hate to record the carbs, so I say no today but maybe yes someday. I have also cut out my glass of red wine at night. I will certainly have some when I go out however.

I cannot stress enough how much help tracking has been. I am always surprised when I enter a new food. I had a large apple today and some pulled pork on romaine (44 carbs). My blood sugar rose to 168 after an hour and then down to 141 after 2 hrs. Now normally one would think an apple and some lean pork might not be so bad. But my system sure didn't like it and I would not know about this without tracking. I even felt a little whoozy after I ate it.

Mahalia
10-18-2010, 04:20 PM
Thanks for all the great suggestions!

I have done tracking on ************ and sparkpeople when I was counting calories. I'm really trying to get away from that, because it makes me cranky and I'm trying to find a way of eating where I can not track. But I do think that tracking for 2-3 days could be really helpful, since I've changed my diet a lot and really don't know how many calories I'm eating. I know it's a lot more, and frankly it's surprising that I didn't start gaining immediately.

I wonder if I could do a halfway thing and have a set amount of nuts, cheese, and wine that I allow myself that I don't go over, instead of tracking everything. I may try that as a half measure (and eyeballing my calories, which often works for me and I haven't been doing) just to see if something changes.

It's good to get confirmation that those three food items give other people trouble as well. I'll cut back on them and see what happens. If that doesn't work I'll track it online more rigidly for two to three days and see what that says.

For those of you who drink wine, how much do you drink before you find that it affects your performance/progress?

Ilene
10-18-2010, 04:25 PM
I weighed in at 155 this am, Ilene. Are you still 155?

Of course, you are mostly rippling muscles and I am just rippling. :o

You are supposed to be the yoga expert. Can you give any advice on the gentlest, stretchiest, meditiationest type?Actually I'm 156 this morning :frypan: .... :rofl: I am not rippling muscles at all! Where did you get that idea :lol: ... The other rumor is I am not a Yoga expert either :lol: although I do Yoga and enjoy it a lot... thank you so much for the vote of confidence though... But I can recommend Hatha Yoga, my parents did Yoga classes along with the rest of us for years, well into their 70s, that's the beauty of Yoga, there's no age limit. Hatha Yoga I think is pretty much the basic type of Yoga. To start you need to know the Sun Salutation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuvfHTaftLQ) the video says it's for beginners but whether you're a beginner or not everyone does the Sun Salutation at the start of every Yoga session. Don't feel badly if you can't touch your toes, just bend your knees and do what you can. Yoga is not a competition. The SS is meant to warm up the body and limbs to start the session. If you possibly can you should take a few classes just to get yourself acquainted with all the terms and exercises... I know you'd love it! ... OM ! :yoga: Namaste ! Hope this helps :D

srmb60
10-18-2010, 04:33 PM
Speaking of missing persons...SUSANnnnnnnnnnn!



Yes dear?

I've drifted far away from tracking mostly because I'm doing just fine. If or when I decide I want something else ... like maybe some muscle definition ... I'll track to see what I can tweak. In the mean time ... I'm doing just fine!

Maybe I should try on the jeans the kids brought me from the states first before I say that;)

I really struggle with giving folks advice that doesn't jive with what their doctors are telling them. That's one of the reasons I've gone incognito.
Personally, I listen to my Doc and work with what I know about my body. We have a wonderful relationship and I know he'd listen to me but I also know that he'd tell me I was wrong if my physical findings said so. And I would listen.
I don't know a doc who would disapprove of South Beach.

Ilene
10-18-2010, 04:36 PM
There's our Susan :wave: ... Please don't go too far incognito :hug:

sparky1946
10-18-2010, 04:40 PM
Thanks Ilene,

I will check out hatha yoga.
I thought you were the one that mentioned long work out sessions. Biking or running? I am so sure your muscles are firm with all that activity.

Ilene
10-18-2010, 05:33 PM
For those of you who drink wine, how much do you drink before you find that it affects your performance/progress?3 glasses :lol: it also depends on my carb intake of the day or week even, and/or if I've had too many nuts... You really have to play around with it and see what works for you... Also, what I've noticed is, that my resolve to eat while drinking wine gets lax when I've had wine... KWIM, it's just easier after a couple of drinks to let things go by the wayside...

Mahalia, have you looked into Mark's Daily Apple (http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-to-succeed-with-the-primal-blueprint/), or getting the book from the library before buying it... The site is great though, there is a lot of information there...

Ilene
10-18-2010, 05:38 PM
Thanks Ilene,

I will check out hatha yoga.
I thought you were the one that mentioned long work out sessions. Biking or running? I am so sure your muscles are firm with all that activity.
Yes, well, I am the one who works out a lot and I am fairly muscular, so they say, but I guess we are our own worse critics :shrug: ... Although I'm only 5'3" I weigh 155 and wear a size 8 pant, they were even loose this morning... My tops are mediums ...

Mahalia
10-18-2010, 06:58 PM
Ilene, I've been reading Mark's Daily Apple and loving it!

Mikkijoe
10-18-2010, 07:40 PM
OH MY GOSH! 5 pages of reading to get caught up! Poo, LDL, HDL, Chocolate, Yoga, WOW......

I too have been on MDA alot, probably too much to cooperate with my work load!

Tracking: highly suggest to do a 2-3 stretch every couple weeks, even when you think you are right where you should be--you might be surprised!

Family progress: 14 yr old daughter has lost 25 lbs in 2 months, I have lost 15 pounds....DH I am not sure

Gout: DH has gout, but he is doing nothing besides sitting in front of his computer all day long, addicted to Facebook games..serves him right LOL, I dont think it is really PB related, he just needs to be moving!

Tropical Traditions has a sale with free shipping right now, (free shipping today 10/18 only) I ordered 64 ounces of coconut oil, gallon tub of coconut chips unsweetened, and 4.4 lbs of coconut flour for $48, I saved more than 50% if I had bought at my grocery or health food store.

want to try to post more, feel very out of the loop, like the support here when I am plugged in......just need to manage time better

sparky1946
10-18-2010, 07:48 PM
... Although I'm only 5'3" I weigh 155 and wear a size 8 pant, they were even loose this morning...

Well I weigh 155 and I bet I cannot get into a size 12 unless they are jeans. Most of my work at home pants are sweats or gym shorts. They are hanging on me a little. My hubbie has a pleat in the back of his pants. :D

My waist is down to 33.5 from 42!!! Lots of bloat on SAD.

sparky1946
10-18-2010, 08:01 PM
I really struggle with giving folks advice that doesn't jive with what their doctors are telling them. That's one of the reasons I've gone incognito.


Sorry, I was thinking the conversation might have made you uncomfortable, as a medical professional.

With our health care issues here in the states, I feel almost desperate to find answers to my issues before Medicare Advantage goes away. Soon there will be no VAP testing unless I pay for all of it. I do not expect others to pay for my health care, so it is what it is. I guess I do not have much patience for doctors who give advice that is outdated. I pay them money. I will be paying them more money. I need them to do the research and be sure.

I read a statistic that there is a 10% survival rate in hospices. Once they decide Granny is at the end, they take her off all her meds, except pain killers and she recovers! This is probably not true but it feels true! :faint:

I'm svelting!
10-18-2010, 08:25 PM
I really struggle with giving folks advice that doesn't jive with what their doctors are telling them. That's one of the reasons I've gone incognito.
Personally, I listen to my Doc and work with what I know about my body. We have a wonderful relationship and I know he'd listen to me but I also know that he'd tell me I was wrong if my physical findings said so. And I would listen.
I don't know a doc who would disapprove of South Beach.
Thanks for the perspective of someone working in the medical profession. I appreciate what you're saying about encouraging anyone to go against medical advice. I've been very fortunate that the few MDs I've dealt with have been open to what I've had to say and willing to discuss my concerns.

There are some areas of medicine where the protocols are well-established and clearly effective , and others that seem to require a lot of trial and error and best guesses (mental wellness, for example). The knowledge about the human body is always evolving. I don't think we'll ever understand everything about such a complex system. There will always be more intricacy and more detail to understand. One hundred years from now, some of what passes for expert opinion will be considered a breakthrough, some will be considered absolute rot. But it's the best we've got right now.

I certainly think docs could be more open to alternate approaches for limited time periods. I've worked out "deals" with my MDs -- I'll do it this way for "x" time, and we'll re-evaluate (tests, etc). We talk about the risks of say 6 months of doing it "my" way, maybe I change my mind. If my way works, maybe I change the doctor's mind! My deals always include the promise, "If my way hasn't produced an improvement after time "x", I'll do it your way for a similar period of "x" and let's re-evaluate." I've probably been very lucky because I only once had to do it "their" way (SSRIs and it was sort of my idea) so far! :D

The more I think about this, it's about risk management. Understanding what the best guess of the risks is and what the time frames are for re-evaluation and "course correction," is critical. Maybe that should be the focus of the discussion with our doctors, making educated decisions about the risks. (Of course the risk of malpractice looms largely in the background of these discussions)

And of course, it's easy for me to say all this. At 46, I'm very healthy except for having been seriously overweight for 8-10 years, and now just overweight and on my way down. Trying to think if I've ever had to see a medical specialist. I have had out of spec cholesterol and triglyceride levels, largely induced by my (hopefully) former lifestyle. I expect that my blood results will look much better for having been lower carb for the last 3.5 months as well as having dropped almost 60 lbs.

sparky1946
10-18-2010, 10:05 PM
Svelting...You are right. Your approach is reasonable. I get too emotional.

Ilene
10-18-2010, 11:57 PM
Sandy, :bravo: on the waist size !!

Mikkijoe
10-19-2010, 12:33 PM
Hey there!

IF today until dinner, mainly because I had soft serve icecream last night, and the night before. WHY? its not that great. This morning my face is all puffy and my neck and shoulders ache just out of the blue.

15 pounds in 2 months, thats really not that good considering how much I have to lose. I am discouraged, very! I have so much more to go. I am at a spot on the scale that I believe is my lowest in several years, its the mark I get to and then run away from...in the wrong direction. I just dont know if I have what it takes to do this..........its too much...for any program. I dont want to throw in the towel, but I wonder if this is worth it if I cannot take the weight off anyway...

I need to get my head back in the game, but it seems like so much effort

I'm svelting!
10-19-2010, 01:22 PM
IF today until dinner, mainly because I had soft serve icecream last night, and the night before. WHY? its not that great. This morning my face is all puffy and my neck and shoulders ache just out of the blue.

15 pounds in 2 months, thats really not that good considering how much I have to lose. I am discouraged, very! I have so much more to go. I am at a spot on the scale that I believe is my lowest in several years, its the mark I get to and then run away from...in the wrong direction. I just dont know if I have what it takes to do this..........its too much...for any program. I don't want to throw in the towel, but I wonder if this is worth it if I cannot take the weight off anyway...

I need to get my head back in the game, but it seems like so much effort
15 lbs in 2 months is great, even though it's less than you wanted. Just because you've approached this weight before and backed off, doesn't mean you can't move beyond it this time. You can do this.

If I remember correctly, you've taken on a lot of PB all at once. You are doing a great job! MDA's insider today talks about slumps. It might be worth a read.

If you can't take it (PB) all on right now, what single PB change/habit can you commit to for the next few days? Just one.

Mikkijoe
10-19-2010, 01:49 PM
I can stay on PB, thats not a problem. Other than sugar cravings the last two nights I am pretty much 80/20 primal (85% choc, and seasoned cashews with sunflower oil ingredients, and blue cheese dressing, and mayo are my occational off plan foods.

I just have that feeling of hopelessness---alright I know that is NOT spelled like that but I dont care right now LOL

Slump---yeah, that could describe it I guess......depressed? not really..... Maybe I am focusing too much on the big picture, maybe I need to set those small goals

Ilene
10-19-2010, 03:44 PM
Mikkijoe :hug: small steps lead to the big picture, 15 lbs in 2 months is great!! .... you're doing so well, keep it up :hug: ....

sparky1946
10-19-2010, 03:50 PM
MikkiJoe,

I agree with you that maybe you should concentrate on small goals. Like 10 lb increments and just try to stay there for awhile.

That is what I am doing with the "I will never" statements. I have lost 20 pounds. I look and feel way better than I did when I weighed 175. I look a lot better than when I weighed 165 plus I can fit into many more clothes. If I never lose another pound, I will be much better off at 155 than 165 or 175. If you stay at 288 for 6 months, your set point will reset and you will be much better off than when you weighed 331 or 299.

Another thing that I am sure you've read is that losing 10% of your body weight is a huge health improvement. You have lost your 1st 10%, maybe work on the next 10%, which would be about 268. And then never go above that as a goal, until you can face going on.

I know it can be so discouraging when you don't see the numbers that your daughter and your husband are pulling. You need to hang in there for them as well.

You know what torqued me off? My daughters MIL was overweight with many health issues. I could always say, "well, at least, I don't weigh as much as her!" Well she went on IP and now is a size 8. I am officially the chubbiest grandma in the family on all sides. There are four grandmas. Well I'll be damned if I am going to hold that distinction. :)

At least at 155, I can find something to wear when I have to be around my "rivals". At 175, I would just stay home. Then the grandkiddies are sad. ('Cause I am the favorite)

Ilene
10-19-2010, 03:59 PM
Just another thought I want to add Mikkijoe, is that whether it be this food plan or another one, the weight loss in order to be healthy is exactly what you're doing... So if you like this plan, and it sounds like you do, hang in there...

Mikkijoe
10-19-2010, 05:56 PM
I appreciate all your help. You have no idea.

Although doing this with the family I feel so Alone. Just saying those words seems a little 'weight lifting'

Going to plan out the weeks meals tonight since it is a leftover night and we have a little free time after work

Going to set some short term goals, I do like the % goals, especially since each goal gets a little smaller! Whooo Hoo!

Probably better start upping my Vitamin D3........ I am not normally this emotional and this down. I need to nip it in the bud, it actually really scares me to feel hopeless like this

Thanks to all!

sparky1946
10-19-2010, 07:15 PM
Another word of praise to all of you working primals...

I do not know how you guys work hard all day, come home to kids and hungry husbands and manage to stay on plan. I would have bailed long ago. I admire each and every one of you.

I work from home for my husband. He gets a little bossy and he doesn't get supper. I rule the roost.

I have put my meals and exercise first to anything workwise. He doesn't like it sometimes but I think he is scared of me. lol

Anywho, I could never be this far along with all the responsibities and distractions that you all have.

Give yourself a great big pat on the back. Someday you will be 64 like me and it will be a lot easier. :)

I'm svelting!
10-19-2010, 08:39 PM
You know what torqued me off? My daughters MIL was overweight with many health issues. I could always say, "well, at least, I don't weigh as much as her!" Well she went on IP and now is a size 8. I am officially the chubbiest grandma in the family on all sides. There are four grandmas. Well I'll be damned if I am going to hold that distinction. :)

At least at 155, I can find something to wear when I have to be around my "rivals". At 175, I would just stay home. Then the grandkiddies are sad. ('Cause I am the favorite)
This cracked me up -- nothing like a little competition between the grandmas. You go get 'er Sandy! Of course, you're the favorite.

I appreciate all your help. You have no idea.

Although doing this with the family I feel so Alone. Just saying those words seems a little 'weight lifting'

Going to plan out the weeks meals tonight since it is a leftover night and we have a little free time after work

Going to set some short term goals, I do like the % goals, especially since each goal gets a little smaller! Whooo Hoo!

Probably better start upping my Vitamin D3........ I am not normally this emotional and this down. I need to nip it in the bud, it actually really scares me to feel hopeless like this

Thanks to all!
There was someone who posted frequently on another 3FC board who had this line in her signature: "I can't lose 120 lbs, it's too hard...but I can lose 10 lbs 12 times...that I know I can do." You can do the % game several times.

The hopelessness is scary to see in one's self. :hug:
I HOPE that you can see that you've overcome the biggest block of hopelessness by getting started losing weight in 2009. The inertia of the status quo and "Why bother?" and "I can't" is a tremendous restraining force. And you, my dear, overcame that all on your own. You had to make the choice that you were worth it (You are!) and that you were going to risk trying one more time. Honor that spirit, that vision, that amazing woman; you won't go wrong. :yay:

CJZee
10-20-2010, 08:57 AM
You know what torqued me off? My daughters MIL was overweight with many health issues. I could always say, "well, at least, I don't weigh as much as her!" Well she went on IP and now is a size 8. I am officially the chubbiest grandma in the family on all sides. There are four grandmas. Well I'll be damned if I am going to hold that distinction. :)

At least at 155, I can find something to wear when I have to be around my "rivals". At 175, I would just stay home. Then the grandkiddies are sad. ('Cause I am the favorite)

Sandy -- it's funny ... I would be pretty darn happy to end up where you started! In fact, my doctor told me I should probably stop losing weight at around 175! So perspective is everything, isn't it? (I must admit, I have a relatively small 35" waist! But my bust and hips and thighs ... arghghgh :dizzy: Very large hourglass, I guess, would be the correct way to put it.)

CJZee
10-20-2010, 09:06 AM
Probably better start upping my Vitamin D3........ I am not normally this emotional and this down. I need to nip it in the bud, it actually really scares me to feel hopeless like this

Hi Mikkijoe -- I call that feeling of hopelessness my "death spiral". When I first started my plan, I had tried to lose weight (and failed) so many times I just felt hopeless also. So, looking back, I did something really smart although I didn't know that at the time ... I hired a personal trainer and started lifting weights.

The reason it was smart is that it was something I knew I could accomplish. I could go see the personal trainer twice a week and he would whip my butt. I could do the cardio 3x a week. I could do it.

I did not worry about losing weight, in fact, when the trainer asked me about weight goals I remember getting horribly emotional (aka crying, lol) and saying I didn't want to set any because I didn't want to set myself up for failure. I was so fragile emotionally, I didn't want any whiff of failure to send me back into that death spiral.

So, I guess what I'm saying, is do something you know you can do. That will get success under your belt (oh, BTW, 15 pounds is a great success!)

Also -- if I were you -- I would ditch the 80/20 rule while on the active weight loss portion of the plan. I would just go 100%. But that's just me. Hugs to you. CJ

Mahalia
10-20-2010, 12:11 PM
Mikkijoe,

We've ALL been where you are. I often get down to 163, and then say "oh well, this is good enough" when really it isn't.

My goal this year on new year's was to lose ten pounds and keep it off. I kept losing 15 pounds and gaining it back, so I said I'll set a goal I can reach, but then the challenge will be not gaining it back. So far, so good.

Anyway, just saying it's good to celebrate how far you've come, and to remember that NOT GAINING is an amazing feat, so 15 pounds in two months is AWESOME! Really take the time to mentally pat yourself on the back for heading in the right direction (DOWN) and appreciate how hard that is!

You can do it!

sparky1946
10-20-2010, 12:37 PM
Sandy -- it's funny ... I would be pretty darn happy to end up where you started! In fact, my doctor told me I should probably stop losing weight at around 175! So perspective is everything, isn't it? (I must admit, I have a relatively small 35" waist! But my bust and hips and thighs ... arghghgh :dizzy: Very large hourglass, I guess, would be the correct way to put it.)

CJ, I have an unusual body in the sense that I am smaller boned, very little muscle and have been measured on a dexa scan as 48% fat at 172. My scan pictures are hilarious. So I need to get a lot of fat weight off, which means getting down to 125-130, which I weighed in my late 20s to early 40s.

I truly want to lift weights when I am at goal for bone density. Many overweight folks that I see have good muscalature under the fat and they do not have to get down that low.

I know I should be lifting now but I cannot handle gaining weight. Talk about a death spiral. I was in a research group where they were testing exercise in menopausal women vs. bone density. I started at 172-48% fat. I exercise and lifted like a mad women and through the whole trial, I lost only 10 pounds but I looked very much better. But... the trainers kept harping on me that I should be losing more weight, questioning what I was eating (there was also a diet component to the study, which I was adhering to). They made me feel like I wasn't "keeping" up. As a older wiser women, I just shrugged off their comments, but it made me wonder.

When I was a teenager, I tried to stuff my face with everything to try to get above 102. So I am one of those people who have an internal image of skinny and who is mortified to see my fat self in windows and mirrors.

I also have read that fat, especially abdomnial fat has a life of its own. It radically changes hormone function etc. So my large waist is really deadly.

Your hour-glass figure tendency is perfect!!! Have you done before and plan after pictures? I intend to post mine when its time. I wager to bet that we will look similar at very different weights! :hug:

Mikkijoe
10-20-2010, 12:49 PM
Alright.......new day, trying to put a new face on! Crap, that just reminds me, I did not put my make up on before I left the house LOL and the drive was not cooperative to put it on while I was driving to drop my daughter at the high school and then go to work..........which is when I usually do my makeup!:o

Ok, my literal face is on, now to work on the attitude!

Next mini goal is 28 pounds.....10%
Mini goal #2 26 lbs
Mini goal #3 23 bls
Mini goal #4 21 lbs
Mini goal #5 19 lbs

And my immediate reward within that 10% is to spend $5 for every pound lost between now and Nov 6, when I go for a weekend away with my girlfriend and our daughters. This is a shopping trip, but I will allow myself to spend this extra amount of money, based on the weight I lose, on something super frivilous (very unlike me)

My plan is still PB.
NO grains, not budging on that
NO sugars, including artificial*
Only dairy will be a small amount of cheese once a week, and my butter
NO alcohol
NO nuts right now
Tracking caloric and micronutrients at least every other day
Planning meals ahead of time to know what our planned intake is
Increase water--my last 3 measurements has been avg 33%, when a woman should be about 50%...dehydration is a common issue for me and can cause a huge problem during weight loss in flushing the crud in the fat cells (like uric acid that causes gout)
*Sweetners---allowing 3 squares of 85% choc a week....and not in one setting this comes out to be a total of .6 ounces, so there is a little bit of organic raw cane juice in that

How is this changed from what I have been doing? I have had nuts 2-3 times a week, and I am going to cut that out to see if there is a difference. I have also had my tiny chocolate square every day at work, and I am cutting that back. But the main thing is tracking and cutting down on the calories. The book says not to worry about calories, just to make sure you are getting enough protien, but I am going to cut to 1500-1700 cals, keeping carbs at 40-60 (I rarely reach 50)

Here is the problem, To shoot for 1500 cals, and have 60 carbs that leaves 1260 cals for fat and protien. According to PB I should have 100 grms protien--that is ALOT. Even if I got there I would have 95 grms of fat! That puts me at 16% c/ 26% p/ 57% f
What do you think about this?

CJZee
10-20-2010, 12:53 PM
Your hour-glass figure tendency is perfect!!! Have you done before and plan after pictures? I intend to post mine when its time. I wager to bet that we will look similar at very different weights! :hug:

This is NOT a new photo, I'm 35 pounds lighter than the "after". I have lost quite a bit since then off my thighs, but they are super jiggly. But, PTL, I can fit into size 14 pants now, they actually slip over my thighs and butt.

Ilene
10-20-2010, 12:57 PM
Sandy, you say that you're afraid to gain weight if you weight train but then you say : « I lost only 10 pounds but I looked very much better. » you lost weight and didn't gain. What makes you soooo sure you'll gain this time around...The trainers that were harping on you were wrong in doing so ... Just the fact that you looked and felt better is all the more reason to start weight training NOW :strong: ... OK off my :soap: :lol:

sparky1946
10-20-2010, 01:02 PM
This is NOT a new photo, I'm 35 pounds lighter than the "after". I have lost quite a bit since then off my thighs, but they are super jiggly. But, PTL, I can fit into size 14 pants now, they actually slip over my thighs and butt.

Wow!!!

CJ, I "just" got out of my size 14s. See, you are going to be one hot mama!!!

CJZee
10-20-2010, 01:07 PM
Here is the problem, To shoot for 1500 cals, and have 60 carbs that leaves 1260 cals for fat and protien. According to PB I should have 100 grms protien--that is ALOT. Even if I got there I would have 95 grms of fat! That puts me at 16% c/ 26% p/ 57% f
What do you think about this?

I think your plan looks great. If it were me, I would track my carbs and calories, and let the protein and fat fall where it may, at least for a few weeks. It would probably come in about what you've calculated.

I just took at look a PB, and Mark says:
Eating Primally will almost always mean that more than half of your calories will come from fat, and there’s no reason to be concerned about that – in fact it’s a reason to rejoice (http://www.marksdailyapple.com/eat-rejoice-repeat/). Our hunter-gatherer ancestors ate at least that and, in some cases, considerably more. There isn’t really an upper limit for fat intake. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-much-is-too-much/

sparky1946
10-20-2010, 01:07 PM
MikkiJoe, that is one **** of a plan. I am impressed. I think I am going to follow your plan, Mark Sisson has nothing on you!

With your cooking skills, ever think about a business plan for the first chain of Primal restaurants? They are badly needed in our country.

You are amazing.

sparky1946
10-20-2010, 01:21 PM
Sandy, you say that you're afraid to gain weight if you weight train but then you say : « I lost only 10 pounds but I looked very much better. » you lost weight and didn't gain. What makes you soooo sure you'll gain this time around...The trainers that were harping on you were wrong in doing so ... Just the fact that you looked and felt better is all the more reason to start weight training NOW :strong: ... OK off my :soap: :lol:

I knew I was going to get this from somebody (The Bean) lol.

I have a rhythm, about 1.25 pounds a week. I have an excel spread sheet that tracks this progress and projects when I will be at goal, if I don't slow down, which I might as I get closer to goal. Do you want me to screw up my spread sheet? :) Just kidding.

I will start when I hit 145 which means that I will not be technically overweight with a BMI, which I know is really not correct in my case but for insurance purposes it looks better. I am going to start with my flabby arms as they will not gain much in weight. I also have a tendency for big thighs, I am just doing my cardio for my legs until goal.

This is what I have to do for my brain. If I had a dexa in my house and could test that it really is muscle, it would be different. I can't see it beneath all the fat. I need to get down farther before I start.

I love you Ilene....:hug:

sf40
10-20-2010, 01:32 PM
Here is the problem, To shoot for 1500 cals, and have 60 carbs that leaves 1260 cals for fat and protien. According to PB I should have 100 grms protien--that is ALOT. Even if I got there I would have 95 grms of fat! That puts me at 16% c/ 26% p/ 57% f
What do you think about this?

Will read and catch up more later, but wanted to offer my support. Mikkijoe, you can do this! Focus on how good you seem to feel and the wonderful food you prepare. I also wanted to tell you that I am consuming about 60-65% fat and am losing steadily - 1 to 2 pounds a week. I also feel really good at this amount of fat. I personally think your ratios look good, but we're all different and you may need to continue to adjust. Try this for a few weeks and see how it goes. :)

sf40
10-20-2010, 01:33 PM
This is NOT a new photo, I'm 35 pounds lighter than the "after". I have lost quite a bit since then off my thighs, but they are super jiggly. But, PTL, I can fit into size 14 pants now, they actually slip over my thighs and butt.

Amazing! I can only imagine how fantastic you must look now!

Ilene
10-20-2010, 02:05 PM
:hug: Love you too Sparky :lol: ... I am just soooo pro-weight training that I must convert you too :lol: ... But you have a plan and it sounds great and in no way would I want you to screw up your spread sheet :nono:

CJ -- great progress... would love to see your -25lb pics, there must be a very big difference :yes:

sparky1946
10-20-2010, 02:20 PM
:hug: Love you too Sparky :lol: ... I am just soooo pro-weight training that I must convert you too :lol: ...

I really am so pro-weight training as well. I am actually going to try to get as much muscle growth as I am capable of once I hit goal. I do not know what that will mean as far as the scale. It will be really funny if I am Ms Senior America and I wear size 4 and weigh 155!!!!

Then I will send you a case of wine!

Ilene
10-20-2010, 02:44 PM
:lol: @ Sparky ....Waiting for that wine :cheers: cuz you know I loves my wine :D ... Funny you should mention size 4 at 155 because years ago on this forum there was a MrsJim who hung around and she was same height as me, weighed 155 and wore a size 4! I saw many pics of her and she was definitely small, so it can be done :yes: .... So go for it Granny :strong:

I'm svelting!
10-21-2010, 08:55 AM
So "step 1" of my transition is going alright -- trying to get to 50% fat calories. (I'm already doing LOTS of veg!) The last 4 days have averaged 48.8%. Not there yet, but a lot closer to 50% than last week. This may take me while! Right now I actually like tracking the data, and seeing the analysis. I come by it honestly though -- my dad kept a food journal for calories and carbs AGAINST the advice of a dietitician he saw to get and keep his blood glucose levels in check!

I better find some fatty foods I like. To start, I do have an avocado ripening on the counter and I found a nice source of well-raised pork-bacon at a local butcher shop. I may hit the luxury markets this weekend to see if I can find some grass-fed butter.

Ilene
10-21-2010, 10:19 AM
I'm 155 on the nose this morning :D but the weekend is coming and I am meeting up with some GFs and we are having wine on Friday night and she's making pasta, of all things... She asked if I liked pasta, of course I said yes but in my head I am screaming NOOOOOOOOO! Oh, well, c'est la vie! I guess *sigh* .... I'll have to portion control ....

sparky1946
10-21-2010, 04:27 PM
I am thinking about another 2 week 20 or under net carb challenge starting Nov. 1. Anybody game?

I need to get under 150 and the last time I doubled my weightloss in the 2 week period.

Ilene
10-21-2010, 05:55 PM
I am thinking about another 2 week 20 or under net carb challenge starting Nov. 1. Anybody game?

I need to get under 150 and the last time I doubled my weightloss in the 2 week period.Let's reach 150 at the same time! I'm going to try really really hard to stick to 20 carbs... Now net carbs are the carbs when the fiber is taken out? Right? I should know this but :doh: I don't :lol:

CJZee
10-21-2010, 06:22 PM
I am thinking about another 2 week 20 or under net carb challenge starting Nov. 1. Anybody game?

I would LOVE to BUT I can't ... I'm on this ding-danged doctor diet with the oat bran and extra fruit, darn it.

Ilene
10-21-2010, 06:43 PM
CJ -- I was just figuring out on fitday and with an apple, raspberries, ground flax and 2 cups of lettuce and it came out to 23.8 net grams of fat... I think it can be done :yes:

sparky1946
10-21-2010, 06:47 PM
Let's reach 150 at the same time! I'm going to try really really hard to stick to 20 carbs... Now net carbs are the carbs when the fiber is taken out? Right? I should know this but :doh: I don't :lol:

Yes, I find not doing net carbs is really just eating fat and protein. It worked OK the last time. Is Nov 1st an OK start date?

I would LOVE to BUT I can't ... I'm on this ding-danged doctor diet with the oat bran and extra fruit, darn it.

I will probably need to do this every once in a while to move into the next 10 pound goal. So maybe next time? I forget how long the doc wants you to do this diet? I suppose until he likes your numbers, huh?

Ilene
10-21-2010, 06:52 PM
So, forgive me, but net carbs it really total carbs and not subtracting the fiber am I right? Straighten me out on this girls :lol:

Ilene
10-21-2010, 06:53 PM
Damn, I just remembered that we're going to NYC on the weekend of Nov 4th... No way, I don't think, I can do that during vacation...

sparky1946
10-21-2010, 07:03 PM
So, forgive me, but net carbs it really total carbs and not subtracting the fiber am I right? Straighten me out on this girls :lol:

I believe that net carbs are carbs minus fiber. From the Atkins diet, I think. It is just a way to get in a few more veggies during the day. Pretty much still rules out fruit.

Sorry you cannot join us/me, Ilene, but have a fabulous time in New York!!

I love Broadway....

sparky1946
10-22-2010, 10:03 AM
Went for a walk with my daughter and grandson for an hour and 15 minutes on my fasting day. Bad mistake. Well, not really....spending time with my grandson is never a mistake.

I became very hungry around 3pm. Very unusual for me to have any appetite or cravings. Ate some tuna and raw peppers. Then some sunflower seeds. Then some homemade turkey breakfast patties with a granny smith apple. Added a glass of pinot as well. Wound up with 47 carbs for the day instead of zero.

Didn't lose any weight this am but my BG was 95 instead of the usual 99-104.

Have the grandkids today so probably won't be fasting.

Have figured out my supplement adjustment and will begin this weekend. I really do not like taking pills, often passive aggressively forgetting to take them so I need to set up a routine. My husband has been taking supplements for years and he does it standing up at the kitchen counter while eating some cereal. They go down better for him. I have found some brown rice cereal - organic and nothing but the rice. He has switched to that. I know rice is a grain. But this is his routine and we haven't come up with an alternative method of ingestion for him.

I think I am going to come up with a low-carb smoothie recipe for me to down the pills (fish oil). I will be taking a liquid Vitamin D drop as well.

I am also checking into transdermal bHRT. According to Dr. Davis of heartscan blog. bHRT is one of the only ways to reduce Lp(a). Saw my gyn, Tuesday. She looked at me kind of funny as I am long since over menopausal symptoms so she is having some tests run to see what I "really" need. Should be interesting. I am printing out a list of things that bHRT is claimed to help:

Estrogens:
• Estriol[E3], estradiol[E2], and estrone[E1] are often prescribed in combination to re-establish a normal physiologic balance.
• Relieve menopausal symptoms, including vaginal thinning and dryness
• May increase HDL “good” cholesterol and decrease LDL “bad” cholesterol
• Help to decrease blood pressure and reduce plaque formation on the arterial walls
• Reduce the risk of colorectal cancer
• May improve mood, energy levels, and sleep patterns
• May reduce the risk of developing or the severity of type 2 diabetes
• May improve memory and cognitive function
• Reduce bone loss

Progesterone:
• Is commonly prescribed for perimenopausal women to counteract “estrogen dominance”
• Alone, or with estrogen, may improve Bone Mineral Density
• Minimizes the risk of endometrial cancer in women who are receiving estrogen
• Is preferred by women who had previously taken synthetic progestins, according to one Mayo Clinic study
• May enhance the beneficial effect of estrogen on lipid and cholesterol profiles and exercise-induced myocardial ischemia in post-menopausal women (in contrast to medroxyprogesterone acetate)

Androgens, such as testosterone:
• enhance libido (remember my husband's testosterone level - sigh...)
• provide cardiovascular protection (lower cholesterol)
• enhance bone building (increase calcium retention)
• improve energy levels and mental alertness

Does anyone have bHRT experience?

Ilene
10-22-2010, 10:27 AM
Sandy, thanks for the info on the net carbs I understandn now`:doh: LOL... I've never had bHRT experience but that was a very interesting read... AND you didn't fail at your fast by any means, it was just one of those days where you just couldn't do both, fast and walk for over an hour, it'll be better next go around...

I was down again this morning 154.4, but as you all know it's the weekend :frypan:

sparky1946
10-22-2010, 12:25 PM
I was down again this morning 154.4, but as you all know it's the weekend :frypan:

Oh-Oh, you don't know how competitive I can be. I will have to really watch things today, so you don't get too far ahead of me. Or should I say below me :)

Eat, Eat and be Merry! ;)

I'll be working my tail off, cardio that is.

Ilene
10-22-2010, 12:36 PM
Oh-Oh, you don't know how competitive I can be. .Bring it on Sista!! :lol:

sparky1946
10-22-2010, 12:38 PM
:lol::lol::lol::lol::devil:

Mikkijoe
10-22-2010, 01:31 PM
I cant do the under 20 net carbs, but I can commit to what works for me, which is under 50 total carbs.[U[/U]

The concept of net carbs is based on the principle that not all carbohydrates affect the body in the same manner.

Some carbohydrates, like simple or refined starches and sugars, are absorbed rapidly and have a high glycemic index, meaning they cause blood sugar levels to quickly rise after eating.

Other carbohydrates, such as the fiber found in whole grains, fruits, and vegetables, move slowly through the digestive system, and much of it isn't digested at all (insoluble fiber).

In the U.S. and some other countries, fiber is shown as a sub-category of carbohydrate. Non-digestible types of fiber don't count as a "net carb."

So, anyone buying a product labelled in the US will need to subtract the fiber figure from the total carbohydrate value to work out the 'net carbs'.

In the United Kingdom, the rest of the European Union and some other countries, fiber is shown separately. In other words, the total carbohydrate value is the 'net carb' count.

For example, a slice of bread sold in the U.S. but made in the United Kingdom might say on the nutrition label that it contains 10 grams of total carbohydrate and 4 grams of fiber. But it would be a mistake to conclude that it contains only 6 grams of net carbs. Because it's made in the United Kingdom, the total carbohydrate value is the 'net carb' count.

The same product made in the U.S., however, would contain 6 grams of Net Carbs. That's because it follows U.S. practice, where the fiber is included in the carbohydrate.

ANYWAY, I imagine you already know that.
My last two days I had
41 total and 9 gm fiber = 32 net
37 total and 24 gm fiber = 13 net

SO I imagine since I usually run about 35-40 total I am probably at 20 grms a day net,

sparky1946
10-22-2010, 02:03 PM
Yah, that's what I meant to say....:)

What I did last time is since I fast every fourth day, I took my 2 week average which equaled 25. Each day I tried to stay below 20 net, but stuff happens and then I rationalized that a running average would be OK. :(

Anywho, I did lose twice as much weight as when I was hitting more like 50 total carbs. I am hoping to duplicate this again.

I wonder how carbs are labeled in Canada? US or U.K method?

Mahalia
10-22-2010, 02:39 PM
Well girls, I thought I would check in with you. My weight was creeping up and you all had given me some good advice to watch the wine and nuts. I did ok with wine, had one day where I really overdid it, and have cut back on nuts without eliminating them. I also did (as advised) track my intake online for three days. Tracking it made me more likely to stay to my 1800 calorie range, and let me see how many carbs I was actually eating. I don't think tracking gave me an accurate picture, but it did let me recalibrate! I try to come in at 1800, then don't measure exercise at all. I bike commute, and row 2-3 times a week, so that should work out. I don't know what I will do come Winter! I will still be going to the gym, but won't burn nearly as much. I sometimes ride 5 or 6 hours a week!

And now my weight (which was creeping up to the 164-166 range) is now more around 162-164, so it's headed back down.

I'd like to get down into the 150s (seems to be a common theme here, right Sparky and Ilene?) but I'd also be happy to stay at this weight with less effort, and low carb makes it a lot easier to stay at or under 1800 calories. I have found that I would go to log dinner and realized that I didn't have to squeeze to come in under the line. I'm also just not so hungry as before.

sf40
10-22-2010, 06:55 PM
So after reading everything I can find on the web, I am still confused but thinking about changing my eating just a bit to see if I can improve things. I have posted in the past about my dismay that my fasting blood glucose has gone up slightly since going low carb. I wonder if I just don't handle low carb very well and need to increase carbs a little.

But no, I am not going back to my old ways of eating. I feel too good now and too many other things are improving. I hope the fasting BG thing is just a bump in the road. That being said, I am going to try to increase my carbs to about 100g a day or so and see what happens. I will need to either reduce fat or protein to do that. I am considering one of the two:
125g (28%) carbs, 95g (21%) protein, the rest (51%) fat ("maintenance" Primal Blueprint)
100g (22%) carbs, 50g (11%) protein, the rest (67%) fat (Perfect Health Diet).Any thoughts?

I've been hovering around 50-60 carb grams daily and have been losing. But my fasting BG has me bothered. I am of course worried about stalling or gaining by increasing carbs, but health is more important. I have no intention of adding cereal grains to get carbs; rather, will try to eat more veggies (I already eat a lot), a bit more fruit, sweet potatoes, maybe some white potatoes on occasion or a more benign grain like rice.

sparky1946
10-22-2010, 07:10 PM
sf40,

I am rather low carb (below 50) a day and I fast every fourth day. I find that the morning after my fast day my BG is in the 80s. The other days they are in the high 90s, low 100s. Any day I exceed about 35 gr of carbs, I tend to be in the low 100s. I am going to do a 2 week challenge of eating 20 or less net carbs and I will report how my blood sugar goes during those days.

Like you say, everyone is different. So my results may mean nothing in your case. I cannot remember if you exercise. I just walk daily and yesterday my daughter dragged me to the post office and back for an hour and 15 minutes, half of it up hill. My number this am was 95 even though I was close to 50 gr. yesterday. So I think for me exercise might make a difference.

I am thinking that my insulin resistance is going to take a while to fix and until then I will not be able to get and keep my BG down to normal. Right now I am just noticing things....

I'm svelting!
10-23-2010, 12:33 AM
I wonder how carbs are labeled in Canada? US or U.K method?
Although a few things are different, in Canada the carbs are labeled the same way as the US.


And now my weight (which was creeping up to the 164-166 range) is now more around 162-164, so it's headed back down.

I'd like to get down into the 150s (seems to be a common theme here, right Sparky and Ilene?) but I'd also be happy to stay at this weight with less effort, and low carb makes it a lot easier to stay at or under 1800 calories. I have found that I would go to log dinner and realized that I didn't have to squeeze to come in under the line. I'm also just not so hungry as before.
Mahalia -- great news that you've found the key for your next phase of weight loss. Those sneaky nuts and that yummy wine!

Today, I had probably my highest calorie highest fat (56%) day in 4 months and I feel sated and happy. After a week of more food and less frankenfood, a pair of jeans I purchased last week that produced LARGE muffin top in the store are surprisingly closer to being suitable for wearing in public. :D

I'm svelting!
10-23-2010, 08:31 AM
I had a really crazy week last week with work, and one day I ended up working 26 out of 29 hours straight (the 3 hours in the middle was drive time and trying to take an hour nap in my car at 6 am before the next job at 7, but failing miserably...) I was doing so well, and at the end of that 29 hours I ate a brownie from the coffee shop. A BROWNIE? I haven't eaten more than 40-something carbs in a day since the beginning of July. That one brownie set off all the old carb cravings and carb withdrawls and all the weird addiction-y stuff. CRAZY. I didn't crave carbs at all for months until I just ate the brownie at the hospital... all downhill from there. Now almost every single day since then, so a week now, I've been bingeing on carby food even when I'm not hungry. Holy **** is the monster back. It's BAD. SO I've got to get it back on track. I'm going to go back to induction-level/basic foods tomorrow, and hope I can stay on track. I still haven't had a day off since October 6th, and I have no idea when I'll take my next one. I worked 70 hours last week and 50 this week (plus 2 hours of drive time each day). On top of that, I've been so busy I haven't been able to go to yoga in a week and a half. The owner of my studio even sent me a personal email. Heh...
Anyway... BOO CARBOHYDRATES AND 7 POUNDS. BOO I SAY!

Someone whip me back into line, please.
Well, I don't know about cracking the whip... There are some powerful biochemistry reactions going on in your body. If you've got the "monster," you're probably carb- or sugar-sensitive. (Kathleen DesMaisons came up with term "sugar sensitive" She writes about it in her books, Potatoes, Not Prozac and The Sugar Addict's Total Recovery Program, and on her website radiantrecovery.

A brief summary of her theory and possibly what's happening for you:
A SS person has naturally low levels of betaendorphin and eats carbohydrates to get more BE flowing to the BE receptors in the brain. When we dramatically reduce or stop eating carbs, we reduce the BE in the brain and are grumpy for a little while. ;) The BE receptors "upregulate" -- become more sensitive and/or those that were "hibernating" open up waiting for the slightest hit of BE. Then, when we have one of the old "drugs" in the form of some sugar and flour delight, whammo, the BE receptors scoop it up and start screaming for more.

If you can, do other things that stimulate your betaendorphins -- exercise and good sex are top of my list. :D

Just take it one day or one meal at a time. You could also slowly taper your carbs back down over a few days, using whatever primal foods work for you (root veg, fruit) Good luck!

wildviolets
10-23-2010, 10:31 AM
sf40 and Sparky I've been listening to these free podcasts by Nora G something who has Primal Body - Primal Mind website and book. Anyway, there was a caller that was type 1 diabetes and wanted to try primal eating to see if she could get off the insulin. ANyway to be honest I don't remember the details of the call and my dh is very talkative this morning so it's hard to concentrate as I write this but I remember her mentioning food allergies are a big factor with blood sugar??? Her podcasts are free on iTunes (Primal Body Primal Mind Radio) but I think this was a podcast I got off her website with Jimmy Moore.

Next time I get to listen to them, I'll make a mental note as to what she says but I find her to be very knowledgeable.

sparky1946
10-23-2010, 11:07 AM
Thanks wildviolets...

I will check both places.

You are all so sweet, I am sure you are sick of me talking about some of this stuff. Last night I couldn't sleep for some reason and I put my headset on and listened to talk radio reruns. On the news break, I heard that by 20XX, (don't remember the date< was groggy :)), 1/3 of the people in the US will have diabetes! I am going to research more to make sure I didn't dream this.

If it is true, fixing obesity is the answer for us and for our families. So for the folks who don't have diabetes now, it is in their future, if they don't get the weight off, IMO.

Thanks again.

PS: I blame it on high fructose corn syrup. Don't eat corn in any form. Use it for car fuel, or use it for kitty litter.

CJZee
10-23-2010, 11:43 AM
I have posted in the past about my dismay that my fasting blood glucose has gone up slightly since going low carb. Any thoughts?

Have you thought about having a very small snack right before bedtime. Here is what bloodsugar 101 (http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/17561156.php) says to try:
Some people find that they can reduce their fasting blood sugar by eating a small snack before bed. Some people use a protein snack, which can be thought of as "slow release carbohydrate" since about 60% of protein turns into carbohydrate over a seven hour period.

Others find a couple crackers or a pretzel helps.

CJZee
10-23-2010, 11:45 AM
On the news break, I heard that by 20XX, (don't remember the date< was groggy :)), 1/3 of the people in the US will have diabetes! I am going to research more to make sure I didn't dream this.
You didn't dream it, Sandy! I couldn't believe it either ... it was on NPR, here is the reference link. (http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2010/10/22/130750449/diabetes-rates-to-soar-unless-americans-get-weight-under-control)

CJZee
10-23-2010, 11:53 AM
I had a really crazy week last week with work, and one day I ended up working 26 out of 29 hours straight (the 3 hours in the middle was drive time and trying to take an hour nap in my car at 6 am before the next job at 7, but failing miserably...) I was doing so well, and at the end of that 29 hours I ate a brownie from the coffee shop. A BROWNIE? I haven't eaten more than 40-something carbs in a day since the beginning of July. That one brownie set off all the old carb cravings and carb withdrawls and all the weird addiction-y stuff. CRAZY. I didn't crave carbs at all for months until I just ate the brownie at the hospital... all downhill from there. Now almost every single day since then, so a week now, I've been bingeing on carby food even when I'm not hungry. Holy **** is the monster back. It's BAD. SO I've got to get it back on track. I'm going to go back to induction-level/basic foods tomorrow, and hope I can stay on track. I still haven't had a day off since October 6th, and I have no idea when I'll take my next one. I worked 70 hours last week and 50 this week (plus 2 hours of drive time each day). On top of that, I've been so busy I haven't been able to go to yoga in a week and a half. The owner of my studio even sent me a personal email. Heh...
Anyway... BOO CARBOHYDRATES AND 7 POUNDS. BOO I SAY!

Someone whip me back into line, please.
Brown, you described me in a nutshell if I have a sweet carby thing. I almost *almost* bought a cookie two days ago and that would have started it. I didn't though, thank goodness.

For me ... the ONLY way to stop the madness is to eat as much as I want of proteins and veggies and no carbs at all until my body calms down again. I stop thinking about calories. I keep myself full and satiated on the non-carb things. I cook a steak and eat cold meat for a snack if I have to.

CJZee
10-23-2010, 12:40 PM
Interesting blog post about the "Myths of Fasting" (http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Leangains+%28Leangains%29) on Leangains. The blog post talks about more than intermittent fasting too. What do you fasting ladies think of his comments????

wildviolets
10-23-2010, 12:46 PM
I just read this (below) on that Primal Body Primal Mind website. I have seen L-glutamine mentioned in various books before. Have any of you? I only mention it because I have the hardest time not eating sweets......seriously. That brownie incident is me everyday...... So I'm considering taking L-glutamine just to see if it works. I also saw somewhere that it was good for gut health????

So…with all that potentially conspires to derail the best of low carb intentions what can a person do to actually tame this carb craving monster once and for all?? Take heart—it’s easier than it sounds. For most individuals it really does seem to be as easy as eliminating sugar and starch from the diet and using dietary fat to satisfy the appetite. Mild tendencies toward temporary symptoms of reactive hypoglycemia while the body adapts over a 3-6 week period can be easily managed with the use of the amino acid L-glutamine. –Just ½ tsp of powdered L-glutamine under the tongue 2 or 3 times a day (or as needed) seem to be sufficient for most. The brain can use L-glutamine in lieu of glucose while metabolic conversions to fat and ketone burning over sugar burning are taking place. The additional use of 4,000-8,000 mg, three times per day of the herb Gymnema sylvestre can improve insulin sensitivity and utterly kill carb cravings in almost anyone. Actually getting Gymnema on one’s tongue by chewing Gymnema tablets or liquid can even destroy your ability to so much as taste sugar for a few hours—a cruel (perhaps) but effective tool in indulgence management….suitable for curbing all sweet temptations at holiday parties. I see both L-glutamine and Gymnema as essentially temporary “bicycle training wheels” for that “sugar burning” to “fat burning” metabolism transition period.

sparky1946
10-23-2010, 12:59 PM
I used to put L-Glutamine in my morning greens drink, but I couldn't remember why.

I used it the first time I tried to lose weight eating only real foods but not restricting carbs (always was a low bread eater). So I cannot say it worked but I lost 25 pounds, without too much angst.

I use fasting as a method of confusing my body. My own theory. I used in the above diet period as well and it appeared to work for me. Lose 2 pounds after a fast, go up a pound for three days, lose another 2 pounds in the next fast, go up a pound for three days. Rinse and repeat. For me, it is slow but sure.

I usually feel great during a fast day. Get a lot of work done. Haven't noticed a loss of energy during my walks, etc.

But my husband could never do it in a million years. He misses a meal and he is angry!! I've got to get the heck out of his way ;).

wildviolets
10-23-2010, 01:54 PM
I thinking fasting would be great for me (and my digestive system)....it's just mentally hard for me. I'm such an emotional eater.

Ilene
10-23-2010, 05:26 PM
Wow CJ that's crazy busy!!

I've taken L-glutamine for muscle recovery after a hard workout, I didn't even know it could kill carb cravings, bonus.... I should go have a shot because I am a bit hungover today and I am the carb :queen:, you don't even want to know :rolleyes:

sparky1946
10-23-2010, 05:47 PM
I am the carb :queen:, you don't even want to know :rolleyes:

That's my girl!!! ;)

Ilene
10-23-2010, 07:03 PM
That's my girl!!! ;):rofl: it's ok tomorrow is another day :devil:

CJZee
10-23-2010, 07:28 PM
Wow CJ that's crazy busy!!

It's really Brown that's crazy busy! I'm just commiserating with her :dizzy:

Ilene
10-23-2010, 07:45 PM
It's really Brown that's crazy busy! I'm just commiserating with her :dizzy::lol: I think the wine last night burned a few brain cells :dizzy:

sf40
10-23-2010, 07:58 PM
Wow, lots of activity since my last post!

Sparky, yes I do exercise, though this week was a bust. We tried to switch our walking from early morning to evening and it just didn't work. Back to mornings. If need be, I'll eat a hard boiled egg before setting out. I am speculating my carbs may be too low due to responses I received when posting about this issue on MDA. I am feeling excessively stressed and anxious right now, not sure if it's due to work (stressful now) or my body trying to cope with too few carbs. Can't eliminate the work stress right now, but can add more carbs. No grains, though!

Also, I read the same statistic as you about the percentage of Americans expected to be diagnosed with diabetes. Frightening, isn't it?

Brown, I have the same feelings as you if I have too much grain/sugar. The last time I did that, I felt physically ill and next morning I felt like I had a hang-over. It was awful. And of course, I craved more. It took every bit of willpower to not give in. Lots of fat helped. Lots and lots and lots.

Wildviolets, thanks ... I will look for that. Food allergies!

CJZee, I have thought about eating a small snack before bed and do it sometimes. The interesting thing is my fasting BG has gone UP since eating primal. Higher than what it was before. So not sure if it is the dawn phenomenon or something else. I do feel extremely anxious, which makes me think it could be something else. Right now, I am ruling nothing out and trying all sorts of things to see if I can spot any kind of pattern or solution.

So I decided I'm not gonna stress too much about food but aim for about 100g of carbs per day by eating all veggies, some fruit, yogurt, and whatever else naturally occurs in foods. No grains. I will not worry about protein and fat percentages for now and just let them fall where they may. My focus will be on feeling good and satisfied. I'll track for a few days to see where I'm at. Once I give this slight adjustment in my food and attitude some time, I'll start checking my blood glucose again. :)

Ilene
10-24-2010, 01:21 PM
Hello girls :wave: ... Feeling much better this morning... Had a nice run/walk workout and a bacon and egg breakfast :hun: all is good :D ...

ETA: After my carb fest yesterday I was soooo bloated this morning, eyes puffy, fingers like sausages... YUK, I feel much better now...

Ilene
10-25-2010, 09:36 AM
Can't wait to get rid of the bloat. My binge for the past almost-week had me up over 7 pounds. :-/I can believe that Brown :yes: ...

Sandy, you'll be happy to hear I'm up this morning :p almost 2lbs ;) ... and I was so careful yesterday...

sparky1946
10-25-2010, 10:25 AM
Sandy, you'll be happy to hear I'm up this morning :p almost 2lbs ;) ... and I was so careful yesterday...

I am not happy....:hug: I was just kidding before. I don't want any of us to gain weight.

We went to a potluck social event last night for the first time since starting PB.
I realized how scary it was to try to pick out food when you have no idea what's in it. So I didn't pick much. I brought a Primal pizza dip with rice crackers and bread for others.

Met a woman who is low-carb the CW way with lots of Splenda etc. I didn't bother with our WOE just listened to her go on and on. One thing she did say was that she recently went off the wagon moving her daughter to NYC with all the great ethnic restaurants and she is having a hard time getting back into the swing.

It made me remember that I can do any diet the first time. It's the second time I can't do. Lack of adrenalin or the enthusiasm factor I think.

I have to make this a way of life.
I have to make this a way of life.
I have to make this a way of life.
I have to make this a way of life.

Ilene
10-25-2010, 10:49 AM
Sandy, I knew you were kidding :hug:

rakel
10-25-2010, 12:05 PM
It's been rough these past couple of days. Switching to this new way of life is so simple, yet complex because of the network effect. It's like, everyone eats a certain way, all of the food is based on that, and you're trying to paddle upstream. But not all is lost, I have made some positive changes in reducing carbs pretty significantly for the most part. It just those special occasions that get the best of me, which has always been my issue -- because there is always some kind of special occasion that you could be "celebrating" with unhealthy eating. And why do we have to celebrate with food anyway? Again, network effect.

The moral of the story, the 5lbs I took off are back on... grr. On the plus side, it seems like everyone is just noticing that I've lost 30lbs and are like, "Are you losing weight?" or "Have you lost weight?" even though I've been at this weight for longer than I care to admit. Perhaps the food changes, although not perfect, are making themselves known in ways not quantifiable by the scale. Who knows!

sparky1946
10-25-2010, 02:36 PM
Perhaps the food changes, although not perfect, are making themselves known in ways not quantifiable by the scale.

My husband thinks that I look very different this time (I have lost the same 25#s three times in the last few years). He swears the weight is coming off differently. In a good way :dizzy:

Mikkijoe
10-25-2010, 03:23 PM
WOW, LOts to read and catch up on!

One note I wanted to add about BG readings; Stress, change of environment, lack of sleep, fighting virus and infections,...ALL kinds of things can push the number up some. A recent change in a relationship can have a drastic change on you BG for several weeks.

I wish I had the reference for that right here, but I dont, will have to look for it

Stayed under 50 total gms carbs all weekend, UNTIL..............PIZZA! what the heck???? 3 slices of sausage, mushroom and onion pizza for dinner last night, what was I thinking? ALL that to avoid going into the kitchen and making something real quick after a busy day....AARRRRHHHHHGGGGG

Salad, blue cheese dressing and canned tuna today for lunch, CHicken, veg and coconut curry sause tonight.......and NO stupid pizza~!

sparky1946
10-25-2010, 03:55 PM
MikkiJoe,

I made a primal (with dairy) Hot Pizza Dip last night for a potluck. Used rice crackers for dipping and it just doesn't do it. My ultimate comfort food is Domino's thin crust pepperoni. I will never have it again and I know others probably think it is gross. That flavor is the ultimate for me. I was never a big bread eater but I do miss this so.

walking2lose
10-25-2010, 09:07 PM
Ladies,
I have been very absent from the forum since my DH's accident (because of general craziness), but I must come on to report the following:

I had a follow up dr. appt today for some blood work I had a month ago. I won't even go into the whole hypothyroid business, but the CHOLESTEROL business has convinced me I must find a new doctor!

Here were my results:
Total 241 (<200)
HDL 68 (>45)
LDL 162 (<150)

She was unhappy with 2 out of 3 being out of normal range, and even mentioned STATINS. I am 42. When I came home, I immediately went to MDA and read Griff's "primer" on cholesterol where he actually has a couple different formulas for how cholesterol is calculated and what it all means. Turns out, according to the Iranian method of calculating, I am doing fabulously.

My "real" LDL is 55!!!!

And more importantly, my ratios are excellent and show that I have the big fluffy type A LDLs.
Total/HDL = 3.5 (<4.4)
Trig/HDL = .8
LDL/HDL = .8

My doctor gave no indication of knowing or understanding of ANY of this. She wants to consider STATINS in the future if my total and LDLs don't go down!!!!

Again, this is not to mention that she is completely misinformed about thyroid issues, telling me it's the TSH that matters and most labs don't even test for free T3 anymore because it's completely USELESS. Even when I pressed her, she refused to order it for me, but she did concede to check my T4.

Am I being dramatic, or am I right to be alarmed by the lack of understanding my doc has of all this?

How can I find a doctor who knows what he or she is talking about regarding nutrition (low carb/primal), cholesterol, and hypothyroid???

I'm so frustrated. On top of it all, she was condescending as H##L. Grr...

CJZee
10-26-2010, 09:06 AM
CJ -- I was just figuring out on fitday and with an apple, raspberries, ground flax and 2 cups of lettuce and it came out to 23.8 net grams of fat... I think it can be done :yes:

Hi Ilene -- the oatmeal sort of puts its over the top. Example, with the first number being total carbs, the second fiber (he wants me to eat apples and pears for the soluble fiber) And this doesn't include the almonds and chocolate he wants me to eat:

Oatmeal 19-3 = 16
Pear 26-5 = 21
Apple 21-4 = 17
Spinach 12-7 = 5
Total = 59

And -- to be fair -- I eat a LOT more than one bunch of spinach for veggies or I would be starving (not really, but you know what I mean). Two cups of lettuce on this diet is just not going to do it for me. It COULD do it for me eating Primal because I could have some nice cuts of meat or full-fat yogurt. But no-fat everything is just not satisfying for me.

Right now, with this trial, I'm just trying to hang on and do it and see if it makes any difference in the cholesterol.

On the plus side, I haven't gained any weight. On the negative side, my acid reflux has come back. I got rid of it about a year ago (I was on meds) but the oats in particular have brought it back, sigh. I emailed the doctor, and he said to try oatmeal vs. oat bran which is what I have been eating.

Ilene
10-26-2010, 09:58 AM
Oh, CJ, I completely understand :hug: ....

Sandy, 154 right on the nose this morning :p .... :rofl:

wildviolets
10-26-2010, 10:03 AM
Would anyone mind explaining to me or pointing me into the right direction regarding "fluffy A type" of cholesterol? I've seen it mentioned here more than once and don't know what your are talking about.

Also what does ETA stand for? I just couldn't figure that on out either.

Sincerely,
Dense Denise ;)

srmb60
10-26-2010, 11:00 AM
Good morning!

There's a little bit of sunshine coming in my window but it's supposed to be rainy and t-stormy here today. I have already taken some of my vitamin D ;)

Had a root canal last week. Suffered the fear and loathing and depression from the antianxiolitics. Had to eat some sloppy processed stuff for a few days. However ... it has brought my attention to the dreary sunless winter and how I should be paying attention to my vitamin D intake and so on.
If I don't get busy with other things today, I'll be researching nutrition and supplements WRT depression.

On the topic of changing body shape, a coworker put her arm around me yesterday and said "you're losing weight again aren't you?" Uh no ... not for a while but nice to hear.

I, too, can eat the toppings off pizza! Love it! I used to just sigh and eat the pizza. On Sunday, I made a salad and scraped the pizza toppings into that. Very good.

CJZee
10-26-2010, 12:38 PM
Would anyone mind explaining to me or pointing me into the right direction regarding "fluffy A type" of cholesterol? I've seen it mentioned here more than once and don't know what your are talking about.

Also what does ETA stand for? I just couldn't figure that on out either.

Sincerely,
Dense Denise ;)

Hi Denise -- don't feel bad, I've just started reading about the "fluffy Type A LDL". Here is a blog post on it:
http://healthcorrelator.blogspot.com/2010/04/low-fasting-triglycerides-marker-for.html

wildviolets
10-26-2010, 01:47 PM
Thank you! I'll check it out.

sparky1946
10-26-2010, 02:15 PM
Sandy, 154 right on the nose this morning :p .... :rofl:

Good for you, I have only gotten down to 154.6. Fast day tomorrow so I am hoping to see 153, even though I will then bounce back up to 154 for a few days.

The one fifties have been a little easier than the one sixties, which is strange.
I may not have to cut off my other leg to get to the 140s. :dizzy::carrot:

I'm svelting!
10-26-2010, 10:55 PM
Hi Denise -- don't feel bad, I've just started reading about the "fluffy Type A LDL". Here is a blog post on it:
http://healthcorrelator.blogspot.com/2010/04/low-fasting-triglycerides-marker-for.html
CJ thanks for posting this link! It's a really helpful explanation. I've also been meaning to thank you for posting a link to stumptuous (in one of the 3FC exercise threads). I find her writing wonderful with just the right amount of snarky attitude (well for me anyway, :D) and her thinking about exercise and nutrition seems so level headed. I was delighted to find out she's in Toronto and that I work less than 2 miles from a gym she's associated with.

sparky1946
10-27-2010, 07:43 AM
Good Morning...

Up at 1:30 am cannot sleep. Upped my carbs the last couple of days to about 100, don't know why it just worked out that way. I plan to start my low carb challenge Nov. 1. (keeping it below 20 net). So maybe it's like one last chance to eat a little more before I start my "diet".

I also woke up with a headache, probably from the carbs?

Anywho, went to my gyn yesterday and received some supplements with more pre-diabetes support. She wanted me to starting eating green smoothies. I cannot even imagine how many carbs are in juice when you take pounds of fruit and veggies and juice them down. I smiled and took her recipes.

Didn't mention my diet other than to say, I'm eating the foods that do not spike my blood sugar. How can any Doc argue with that. :) She also gave me a supplement that is supposed to even that out when taken with meals. It is called Digest. We shall see.

I originally went to her for bHRT for my elevated Lp(a). She commented that in her opinion, my body makes cholesterol (which is a base for all hormones) because it knows my hormones are waning and I need to make more. But something is getting lost in the precursoring process and the hormones never get made so I see the high cholesterols in my blood. She gave me pregnenolone to try to complete the process.

It seemed like a reasonable explanation. We shall see...

I tells ya, you could go nuts trying to sort all this stuff out. It's like I just need to get the weight off, take another look. Try to cool all inflammation markers, take another look. And on and on. It just seems like too much.

My husband has moved from worrying about his cholesterol and plaque to worrying about his pre-diabetic numbers which are worse than mine. He is not overweight really but does carry what little fat he has in his middle. He says he just cannot handle more than one worry at a time.

I go to see my low-carb doc today. Have kind of decided to show him my Excel spreadsheet where I have been tracking my fasting blood sugar and see if he thinks I am still pre-diabetic or worse. My numbers are not as bad as some here and on MDA, so I am kind of confused. Maybe will know more later.

MaddieD
10-27-2010, 08:32 AM
Finally able to check in...wow...lots of reading and lots of info! I have an appointment today and will be getting bloodwork done tomorrow. I'll have to compare my numbers with what you all have been posting.

Welcome rakel! (know I'm seriously late on that one...sorry!)

Had a small victory yesterday. Went shopping for a winter coat and I am into a size 14 and it is loose enough to wear a bulky sweater underneath. I was thinking a 16 might be snug so that was a very pleasant surprise! Got it for a really great price so I won't feel too badly only wearing it for one year and getting something smaller next year.

Good luck with your appointment Sandy!

wildviolets
10-27-2010, 09:54 AM
Thanks Brown....that was driving me crazy.....I couldn't figure it out.

Sandy, what is pregnenolone? I've been trying to figure out my hormones the last year or so.....I think it's mostly estrogen dominence but since on birth control pills, i'm afraid to add a progesterone cream on my own without the advice of a dr. I'm due for my annual gyne exam anyway. But I'm always interested in hearing others trials thru peri- and post- menopause.

sparky1946
10-27-2010, 01:27 PM
My gyn gave me the following:
Pregnenolone is the precursor (building-block) for all other steroid hormones. It is converted directly into DHEA and/or progesterone. DHEA converts to testosterone and estrogens; progesterone converts to estrogens, cortisol, and aldosterone. It is this succession of conversions that makes human life possible. Without pregnenolone, there can be no human steroid hormone production.

Made from cholesterol, pregnenolone is a natural steroid hormone produced primarily in the adrenal glands, but in smaller amounts by many other organs and tissues of the human body, including liver, brain, skin, gonads, and even the retina of the eye.

Like many health-promoting hormones, levels of pregnenolone drop with age. Although the data are not as abundant or definitive for pregnenolone as they are for DHEA, Dr. Eugene Roberts, a pioneer in hormone research, believes that the age-related drop in pregnenolone is as dramatic as the drop in DHEA. At 75, our bodies typically make 60% less pregnenolone than at age 35. This is a point of great concern, considering pregnenolones numerous protective, health-promoting properties.
This is what they give women who are past menopause and did not do HRT or haven't been on HRT for a long time. It is less potent than regular bHRT but it is especially useful for women who want to have the protection of our hormones, but no longer experience menopausal symptoms.

In other words, they wouldn't give me the regular bioidenticals. Those could make my existing plaque slippery. Yikes! Supposely, the pregnenolone can take one of two paths: one to the DHEA/Testosterone path or the progesterone/estradiol path, whatever you need.

We shall see....

My low-carb doc and I decided today to continue what I am doing, (my fasting blood sugar was actually lower in his office than at home) and will reevaluate A1C level in January. Will not be adding any medication for pre-diabetes until I am down to goal weight. I might do some additional postprandial (after eating) testing.

I am kind of glad to have decided this because by adding supplementation and medication at the same time, I won't know what helped what.

sparky1946
10-27-2010, 01:33 PM
Just had a thought.... this whole business is like a long science experiment. I cannot wait to find out the result. Which tends to be very motivating to continue with this way of eating.

I don't want to mess up the experiment. :)

sparky1946
10-27-2010, 02:17 PM
I'm up for joining you in your under-20-net carb challenge Nov 1.

Great!!

I will be posting my carbs daily.

MaddieD
10-28-2010, 07:37 PM
Would love to join you both in the carb challenge but there is just no way I could go below 50...my "best" day was 46 and that was more a fluke than anything!

Blood pressure was a bit high but it always is when I go to see him. I have a serious case of "whitecoat hypertension" but this time he wants me to prove it. One doctor I see...my numbers are great,him...they always go up a good 12-15 points. Seriously. Might be time to switch to another doctor.

I go for bloodwork on Monday (want to give my body a bit longer to produce some good numbers). I go on Thursday to get the results.

sparky1946
10-28-2010, 07:56 PM
I kind of forgot until Maddie mentioned blood pressure.

Mine has gone way down since going primal. :)

One of those unexpected little bonuses...

Mahalia
10-29-2010, 12:07 PM
That's great about the blood pressure, Sparky!

Maddie, I know what you mean about the white coats. I have low blood pressure, but they always make me nervous. It's just the way you are rushed, and there's an opportunity for someone to be judgmental. When I'm rich (ha!) I'm going to find an integrative medicine physician who doesn't take insurance so they will actually sit and listen to me for once!

I'm listening to Robb Wolf's podcast right now, and loving it. He's so down to earth.

I'm slowly inching towards paleo/primal. I just cut out legume earlier this week after being off grains for about a month now. I'm limiting my nuts to 2 ounces a day (thanks to you all's advice). I put the nuts in a little bowl on the counter and I can eat them whenever, but when they are gone they are gone! My weight was a little lower today, I'm just happy when I'm going in the right direction.

I'm thinking about really going for a weight of 145-150. I've always said I would be perfectly happy to be in the health weight range (which I about am, now) but I think I've undersold myself. Now with all I know from GCBC and Paloe/Primal reading, I'm really thinking I could do better.

Also, I used to have these intense cravings at 4-5 pm every day. I would end up having a snack and then eating dinner an hour or two later, but waiting wasn't an option. Now that's not an issue. I hardly ever have the feeling of being intensely hungry. It's more of just a pleasant hungry, if that makes a sense.

CJZee
10-30-2010, 08:51 AM
You know, I'm going to join your challenge, Sandy! Here is my plan:
- no grains except oatmeal
- unlimited non-starchy veggies
- proteins as desired
- EVOO for fat if I have a choice
- two fruits/day per doctor (one being an apple or pear)
- max 15 almonds per day
- max 1 dark chocolate square per day
- calories 1550 or less
- supplements per the doctor

wildviolets
10-30-2010, 08:55 AM
So I just read an entry from Healthy Skeptic about fish oil.....how most studies have been short term and that one long term study showed that fish oils may actually be harmful.

Once again I am confused. Lately I've been telling lots of people to take fish oil because it was recommended to my neighbor by his doctor to take in lieu of statins. It was recommended to my MIL for her beginnings of demetia. And my Dr. asked me if I took because my blood work was good (as compared to most of my brothers and sisters who are on statins).

What do you all think about fish oils? Do you all take them?

CJZee
10-30-2010, 10:22 AM
So I just read an entry from Healthy Skeptic about fish oil.....how most studies have been short term and that one long term study showed that fish oils may actually be harmful.

Once again I am confused. Lately I've been telling lots of people to take fish oil because it was recommended to my neighbor by his doctor to take in lieu of statins. It was recommended to my MIL for her beginnings of demetia. And my Dr. asked me if I took because my blood work was good (as compared to most of my brothers and sisters who are on statins).

What do you all think about fish oils? Do you all take them?

Ahhh, you know I've taken fish oil for years, but my "new" doctor wanted me to up my dosage. I saw the same study as you and emailed him the following:

My email to new doctor--
Thank you for replying to my previous questions. I have two more:

1. Acid reflux. I was on Prevacid, then omprezole for approximately 3-5
years. I was able to get off these medications about a year ago with my
previous diet. However, I find when I eat the oat bran for breakfast,
the acid reflux comes back. I have been controlling it with Tums.

2. Problems with fish oil: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20694407,
and a comment on the study:
http://www.mattmetzgar.com/matt_metzgar/2010/10/fish-oil-ratios.html#c6a
00d83451612b69e20134886e9c93970c

Since my triglycerides are already low and my LDL too high, is taking
fish oil counter-productive for me?

Thank you for all your help.
-------
His reply --
Try the oatmeal instead of the bran.
The 40 patients have MS- you don't- not sure we can compare the two.
Will discuss further when we see each other- in meantime benefits outweigh risks.

wildviolets
10-30-2010, 10:57 AM
CJZee,
First I wanted to comment on your acid reflux. I too had that and had been given Prevacid for awhile and later omprezole. I don't take them anymore due (as you) to my diet. Also a naturopath told me that I may not make enough acid in my stomach and so I took a teaspoon of apple cider vinegar in a cup of water before meals which really helped. I think that was more the problem, not too much acid, but rather not enough.....also what i was eating.

I used to LOVE oatmeal and eat it frequently for breakfast or in homemade granola. In retrospect, it really hurt my stomach. I used the whole rolled oats or steel cut, but they just don't agree with me as I get older.

Would the apple cider work for you? Just a thought. I agree that your old diet would be better.

Now for the omega 3 comment from your dr......is he a good doctor in your opinion? I thought you said he was a special type of doctor. I don't know what to tell you. I myself am leaning toward eating more oily fish per healthy skeptic and The Perfect Diet recommendations as well as decrease omega-6 oils and food.

Good luck to you!

sparky1946
10-30-2010, 11:37 AM
CJ

Looks like you have a solid plan and I am glad to have you join us. I just found out that I will be in Vegas from the 2nd to the 5th with my husband (he was invited last minute to speak at a convention). So this should be an eating experience. I am thinking it might be easier at restaurants but then again it might not. If all fails, I will just do some IFing. I'd rather be in NYC with Ilene :)

wildviolets - I am just starting my new supplement regimen (from OB/GYN) and of course it includes fish oil. I will have to do some more research. I also have been trying to buy more wild caught fish so that we are eating it more times a week.

Every food/supplement at one time or another seems to be "bad". It is so frustrating, especially when one cannot guarantee that the advice your doc is giving you is the latest findings or what he/she learned in med school 20 years ago.

Arrrgh.....

sparky1946
10-30-2010, 11:45 AM
Also, your doctor's comment about MS (they have it - you don't) - I, at first, thought the subjects had Multiple Sclerosis. Hope your doc didn't make the same mistake. LOL

I'm svelting!
10-30-2010, 09:00 PM
Also, your doctor's comment about MS (they have it - you don't) - I, at first, thought the subjects had Multiple Sclerosis. Hope your doc didn't make the same mistake. LOL
Sharp eyes Sandy! It would be good news not to have Metabolic Syndrome, but it would definitely worth CJ asking what he meant/understood by MS. I'd bet he's only read the summary line of abstract.

CJZee
10-31-2010, 07:29 AM
(Purple from WildViolets)
First I wanted to comment on your acid reflux. I too had that and had been given Prevacid for awhile and later omprezole. I don't take them anymore due (as you) to my diet. Also a naturopath told me that I may not make enough acid in my stomach and so I took a teaspoon of apple cider vinegar in a cup of water before meals which really helped. I think that was more the problem, not too much acid, but rather not enough.....also what i was eating.
Good idea to try the apple cider vinegar. I am so bummed about the acid reflux as it was horrible when I had it. I actually went to the emergency room once I thought I was having a heart attack, it was very severe. It is not to that point yet, but I feel I am damaging myself after I semi "fixed" myself (okay, okay, you know what I mean, LOL!)

I used to LOVE oatmeal and eat it frequently for breakfast or in homemade granola. In retrospect, it really hurt my stomach. I used the whole rolled oats or steel cut, but they just don't agree with me as I get older. I had been eating oat bran, but I am switching to oatmeal. I don't know if that will make any difference, but now the acid reflux is coming after most food so I'm afraid I'm on a downhill slide.

Would the apple cider work for you? Just a thought. I agree that your old diet would be better. I think I'm going to do this diet until Nov. 15 when I have my dr. appt. However, if my bloodwork hasn't improved exponentially, I'm not going to continue it, too much downside. From everything I've read, my cholesterol is pretty darned good because of my high HDL and low triglycerides and Pattern A LDL. Of course, I wish it were lower mostly so all these doctors would get off my case. But cholesterol is not the only thing that counts.

Now for the omega 3 comment from your dr......is he a good doctor in your opinion? I thought you said he was a special type of doctor. I don't know what to tell you. I myself am leaning toward eating more oily fish per healthy skeptic and The Perfect Diet recommendations as well as decrease omega-6 oils and food. He is a new doctor for me. He practices what is called "integrative medicine" in that he supposedly combines traditional medicine (he's an MD) and alternative approaches. I do not know if I like him. I don't think he listens well. I think he's smart, though. That counts for something. I don't necessarily think he understands morbidly obese people. I personally am physically and mentally dealing with this issue (obesity). You know, it is so simple in a way (cut your calories!) but in other ways it's so complicated (raging hunger, micro-nutrients, exercise, acid reflux, supplements, body image, cultural norms, etc. etc.)

Good luck to you!
Thank you!

CJZee
10-31-2010, 07:35 AM
From Sandy: Also, your doctor's comment about MS (they have it - you don't) - I, at first, thought the subjects had Multiple Sclerosis. Hope your doc didn't make the same mistake. LOL
From I'm Svelting: Sharp eyes Sandy! It would be good news not to have Metabolic Syndrome, but it would definitely worth CJ asking what he meant/understood by MS. I'd bet he's only read the summary line of abstract.

Hi Sandy and Svelting -- you know, I bet he DID think it was Multiple Sclerosis! Thanks for pointing that out to me.

sparky1946
10-31-2010, 05:04 PM
A strange thing is happening. Ever since I started taking my supplements, my FBG has gone up by about 10 points.

Hmmmm will have to call my OB/GYN and see if anything I am taking could cause this.

See all you under 20 netters tomorrow!

2 Week Carb Challenge
Total Carbs Net Carbs
11/1
11/2
11/3
11/4
11/5
11/6
11/7
11/8
11/9
11/10
11/11
11/12
11/13
11/14

CJZee
10-31-2010, 08:04 PM
A strange thing is happening. Ever since I started taking my supplements, my FBG has gone up by about 10 points.

What supplements did you start? CJ

sparky1946
10-31-2010, 10:42 PM
Here they are:

Omega-3 Super Pill
Calcium Pyruvate
Chromium
Digest
GlucoBalance
IgG 2000 DF capsules
Jarro-Dophilus + FOS powder
L-arginine Powder
MegaRed Krill Oil
Bio-D-Mulsion Forte
SpectraMin In Reversatrol
Cortisol Manager
Niaspan
Pregnenolone

Mikkijoe
11-01-2010, 04:55 PM
WOW Nov 1 is already here huh?
Better get my game on. I have just had almonds here at work, and will have pork roast sammiches on primal bread (egg, spinach, coconut flour and cashews) and we will have a salad on the side. So there will be no issue with being on target for the challenge

Ilene
11-01-2010, 06:41 PM
Just started the November thread... C'mon down :wave: ....

Primal/Paleo-ish in November (http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/carb-counters/216331-primal-paleo-ish-november.html)