WW Clubs and Groups - Anyone on the OLD WW eating plan?




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emaline29
09-08-2010, 03:23 PM
I have the old WW recipe book which also contains the portion sizes and allowances for the day. I have always followed this when I lose weight and have found it very successful. Like anything it is controlling intake to keep the weight off.


stocco88
09-08-2010, 04:01 PM
Are you talking about the one when they allow you 2 milk, 2 fruit, 5 proteins, etc.??

emaline29
09-09-2010, 10:28 AM
Yes that's the one. The book has some really nice recipes in it. I keep the weekly sheet which I check off each day. One of the rules to this programme is that you MUST eat ALL the portions subscribed for each day otherwise you don't lose weight. Have you been on this at all?


kaplods
09-09-2010, 01:56 PM
One of the rules to this programme is that you MUST eat ALL the portions subscribed for each day otherwise you don't lose weight.

This isn't precisely true (though a lot of WW leaders did present it that way). The reason for eating all of the portions wasn't because you couldn't lose weight if you didn't, but rather the underlying logic was that eating a balanced diet was healthiest and most sustainable.

Prior to 1997, while there were subtle variations, WW had always been an exchange plan. Virtually all exchange plans (with few exceptions) are based on a system developed in the 1940's for use with diabetics.

And the exchanges haven't changed much over the years (though the recommendation for how many of each exchange should be eaten does vary with each program), which means that cookbooks for one exchange plan can usually be used interchangeably with other plans (One exception is the DASH diet, for which one DASH meat exchange or serving is actually equal to 3 standard protein exchanges, and they also use "nut exchanges" which I don't remember the conversion rate but is equivalent to 2 or more fat exchanges). At any rate, even though the DASH program is slightly different, when you understand how it's different, it's very easy to "translate" into standard exchanges.

I've followed exchange plans since I was 8 years old (in 1974) and became a WW member for the first time (it was the youngest WW would allow you to be a member - if your parent was also a member and you had a doctor's note).

I collect exchange based cookbooks, and have found only one that uses a different system of exchanges, and that is the DASH plan (Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension). There may be others, but I haven't found any so far. Which is great, because it means you can use almost all exchange cookbooks interchangeably. Even the DASH plan is easy to translate because the only difference is in the nuts (which I believe are equal to 2 fat exchanges) and proteins (which are eqal to 3 standard protein exchanges).

Some of the exchange-based cookbooks I have are old Weight Watchers cookbooks, and books by Richard Simmons', Joanna Lund (her Healthy Exchanges cookbooks) and The American Diabetes Association, and others.

I list and describe some of them on my 3FC blog:

http://www.3fatchicks.com/diet-blogs/kaplods/2009/08/31/exchange-plan-books-and-cookbooks/




Whenever I find an exchange cookbook in a used bookstore I pick it up.

The Christian Program called First Place and TOPS (taking off pounds sensibly) also have also exchange based plans, and I have "The Choice is Mine" (the program basics book available through TOPS - which allows you to follow any diet you wish, but endorses exchange plans).

New diabetic cookbooks sometimes list only carb counts and nutrition information. There is a way to convert a standard nutrition label into exchanges using relatively basic math skills. It's described well in the book "Exchanges for All Occasions," or at least in the 4th edition of the book which I have.

I don't follow the old WW plan, because I need a lower-carb plan. THere's a lot of information on exchange plans on the website hillbillyhousewife.com under the Healthy HBHW tab (and then under dieting on a budget).




They have a nice introduction to exchange plans

http://healthy.hillbillyhousewife.com/introductiontoexpd.htm





They also list the exchange values for 1200, 1400, 1500 and 1800 calorie plans at three carbohydrate levels.


http://healthy.hillbillyhousewife.com/foodplans.htm

If I remember correctly, most of WW's old plans were most similar to the high carbohydrate and the middle of the road food plans.


I based my current exchange plan on the High Protein food plans listed in the link above, because my doctor suggested a low-carb plan that "wasn't too low" in carbs.

I changed it a little bit in that I wanted to have a few "optional exchanges" rather than a constant specific number of exchanges. I don't remember if that is the term WW used, but I remember and liked that most WW exchange plans allowed a certain number of exchanges that were optional, and could be used on dairy, protein, starch or fruit exchanges.

So my current plan is a 1500 - 2000 calorie exchange plan (I used the 1500 calorie high protein plan on Hillbillyhousewife and added about 6 "flex" exchanges that I can use (about 500 calories).




There has been several exchange diet threads on 3FC for people following exchange plans, but we tend to be active for a while and then the thread dies for a while until someone brings up the subject again.

emaline29
09-11-2010, 06:08 PM
WOW! Wasn't expecting such a long and detailed expo!
Thanks anyway.
Interesting point you make about my saying "must eat everything". My sister and I joined WW when this book/programme was being used and she wouldn't eat all the listed foods for the week as she said it would make her put ON weight. The WW instructor said that to her as she hadn't lost anything that week. The next week she did eat everything as stated and lost several pounds on the next weeks weigh in.
Perhaps it was phsychological.

kaplods
09-12-2010, 10:33 PM
I tend to get a little carried away when talking about exchanges, because many people tend to think of them (if they know about them at all) as "outdated" systems for diabetics, Weight Watcher's, or Richard Simmons' deal-a-meal.

As for your sister's experience, I don't think it's psychological at all - it's physiological. You can't determine anything by only one week of dieting. It's very possible that had she eaten all her foods both weeks, she still would have only lost the second week. Maybe her first week was at the point of her menstrual cycle at which she usually gains weight. Many people also lose weight in "whooshes." Their bodies hold onto the weight for several weeks and then loses suddenly in larger increments. It has little to do with what they ate the day or week before the whoosh.

You can only make judgements about the patterns over the course of months, not days or even weeks. With women, the menstrual cycle for example has to be considered - but there are other posible patterns too. It can take many weeks to understand the patterns (assuming you're looking for them).

I retain water in hot weather, but that wasn't an easy pattern to notice, because I wasn't expecting it. I was looking for changes in my eating and exercise to be affecting weight gain, not the weather.

Itryharder
09-13-2010, 08:15 AM
This is all very interesting. Would one of you please list WW's exact number of servings for both men and women? I have looked in many old WW cookbooks, etc. and haven't been able to find this info. I guess the books weren't old enough. I'd really appreciate it so much!
Itryharder, Judy
234.6/191 and struggling/170's by 9/30 :cool:

kaplods
09-13-2010, 11:15 AM
Most WW cookbooks don't have the program information (because they wanted you to get the program from joining I suppose), but there are a few that do.

I've heard that this one does, but I haven't bought it yet so I can't verify that (I'll buy it used on amazon, because it's out-of-print).

Weight Watchers Complete Cookbook & Program Basics: 500 Irresistible Recipes (1994)

emaline29
09-13-2010, 06:58 PM
Hi Judy, Well I DO have all the servings and other info in my cook book. I would love to send this to you as it would take some time to put it all on here. Don't know how to contact you especially as both of us don't have any contacts info on here. Any suggestions?

Itryharder
09-13-2010, 10:02 PM
Yes, check your private messages. I'll leave my snail mail and e-mail address for you. I really appreciate what you have in mind. All I really need is not the serving sizes since I remember them pretty much, but how many fruits, milks, protein, breads, and veggies daily for men and women.
You're the greatest. I look forward to a private chat.
Judy/Itryharder

Itryharder
09-13-2010, 10:09 PM
Hi Emaline,
Well, posting a private message didn't work, so I'll have to think about what else to suggest. What I am interested in is this: Not the serving size as far as ounce, etc. but the number of
fruits
breads
protein
dairy,
veggies
daily for men and women. Do you happen to have that? or could you name the name of your cookbook and I'll try to get it through eBay or something? That would be great.
Judy/Itryharder
Right now I'm concentrating on filling foods and I'm doing okay, but I've started going backward in my losing journey and I want to put a stop to that. Thank you and Kaplod for being so kind.

emaline29
09-14-2010, 06:39 PM
I'll put the info here as you asked.
Fruits 3 servings - can be juice 5oz max
Veg 2 " - minimum 3oz
Beetroot, mangetout peas, broad beans, parsnip peas limited to 3oz max.
Milk 2 " - serving is 10fl.oz 1 serving can be exchanged for 5 oz yogurt
Bread 2 - 3 " - 1 serving can be sub. for 3oz potato or cereal
Fats 3 " - 1 " is usually 1 teaspoonful
Poultry,Meat or Fish - 3 - 4ozs serving - 4 meat meals per week + 1 Liver Meal
Cheese Hard - 4 x 1oz servings per week
Eggs - 4 per week

Hope that helps

Itryharder
09-14-2010, 07:25 PM
Emaline, this helps tremendously!!!!! Thank you so much. Good luck in your weight loss journey. Nice chatting with you.
Judy/Itryharder
234.6/191.4/170's by 9;30 :cool:

kaplods
09-16-2010, 12:14 AM
Hubby and I were thriftstore and antique shop shopping today and I found two Weight Watcher's exchange cookbooks. I wish I'd bought both, but the one I bought did have exchange program information.

It's Weight Watchers' Quick Success Program Cookbook by Jean Nidetch (1988)

The first week's program for women is very similar to emaline29's except in the protein (the older program is higher in protein and lower in carb. the 3 - 4 oz servings would be equivalent to about 60 exchanges of protein per week (8-9 daily). There alre also differences for men and youths. The liver meal is no longer mandatory and the recommendations are a bit different. Also, there are changes as the weeks progress (to be honest, I really think this is a marketing ploy more than it is essential to success. The "quick start" aspect is appealing to people, and by making changes to the program every week for at least five weeks, means that people will be more motivated to stick it out at least for the first five weeks to get the whole program before trying to do it at home alone. By then, they hope to have you hooked on the meetings. There's nothing wrong with that at all from a business standpoint, but a savvy consumer takes it into account).

One thing to consider is that the version emaline29 lists, comes to about 1400 calories a day. Whereas the Week 1 of the 1988 program only has 900 - 975 calories (without the optional 150 calories). Without the optional calories, you're not even breaking 1000 calories, which no doubt it did give people a nice, impressive first week weight loss, but there's no reason you should have to go that low (and I don't think any subsequent WW plans ever went that low again - at least not in my memory. I suspect I joined every WW plan incarnation available from 1974 - 1994. From age 8 to 28, every time WW advertised a new plan, my mother and I would join - together when we lived in the same town, and when we lived apart, when one of us would join, the other would join immediately upon hearing about it.



Anyway the plan in this book as listed (counts in parenthesis are for men and youths, except for the milk exchanges. In which case men get the same as women, and only the youth count is in parenthesis).

Floating Exchanges - allow you to add an extra exchange to your Daily Totals. Each day (after week 5) you can choose one exchange from either the fruit, protein, bread, or milk exchanges.

Week 1

Fruit 2-3 (3-4)
Veg 3, at least
Fat 3 (3)
Protein 5-6 (7-8)
Bread 2 (4)
Milk 2 (3)

Optional:
Floating 0 (0)
Optional calories 150


Week 2

Fruit 2-3 (3-4)
Veg 3, at least
Fat 3 (3)
Protein 5-6 (7-8)
Bread 2-3 (4-5)
Milk 2 (3)

Optional:
Floating 0 (0)
Optional calories 200



Week 3

Fruit 2-3 (3-5)
Veg 3, at least
Fat 3 (3)
Protein 5-6 (7-8)
Bread 2-3 (4-5)
Milk 2 (3-4)

Optional:
Floating 0 (0)
Optional calories 300


Week 4

Fruit 2-3 (3-5)
Veg 3, at least
Fat 3 (3)
Protein 5-6 (7-8)
Bread 3 (5)
Milk 2 (3-4)

Optional:
Floating 0 (0)
Optional calories 400


Week 5 and onward

Fruit 2-3 (3-5)
Veg 3, at least
Fat 3 (3)
Protein 5-6 (7-8)
Bread 3 (5)
Milk 2 (3-4)

Optional:
Floating 1 (1)
Optional calories 500


Guidelines:

No more than 3 eggs
No more than 4 oz of hard or semisoft cheese ("slicing" cheese. Cottage cheese would be ok any time)
No more than 12 ounces of limited meats (red meats such as lamb, beef, and pork).
Between 9 and 15 ounces of fish or shellfish



Another feature of the plan (which I also think is marketing rather than logically/success driven) is that the food lists are expanded each week to include more variety within the exchanges (but the calories are still similar)

For example, you're given a large variety of veggies to choose from for week 1

Week 2: cardoon, eggplant, and sprouts are added to the week 1 list

Week 3: beets, brussel sprouts, fennel, kohlrabi, pickles, and pumpkin are added

Week 4: snow peas, veg juices( limit 1 exchange daily), carrot, sauerkraut, tomato sauce/puree/ paste are added

week 5: 23 more veggies are added including greens, artichokes, winter melon, jicama, okra, rhubarb, Rutabagas, and turnips, and others.



Every list has new additions each week. Because the carb and calorie contents are still quite similar, there won't be a calorie difference in your exchange choices. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to the additions. For example, it makes sense that dried fruits are added last - they're easier ot overeat. But if that's the rationale, it doesn't follow through. The main goal it seems is to give you a reward for sticking with the plan, by giving you more to choose from. For most of the exchange groups, the lists of new foods to be added gets progressively larger. Week 1 is the largest (or second largest), Week 2 offers a handful of additions, Week 3 is an even larger list, Week 4 even larger and week 5's list is nearly as large or larger than Week 1's.

The calorie levels are all the same, though so there's really no need to worry about what is on each lists unless you're anal about such things (and if that's the case - LOL, you can buy the book, because I'm tired of typing).

kaplods
09-16-2010, 12:48 AM
FYI (WW trivia really), Weight Watcher's had several different exchange plans over the years. In the 1990's (if memory serves), there was at least one version that gave different exchange counts based on your starting weight (sort of a precurser to the point system in that regard).

Itryharder
09-16-2010, 10:12 AM
Wow Kaplods, this is great and just what I was looking for. My dh still has the "counter" where you click as you eat a fruit, etc. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this. I was successful myself on the selections programs, but in the end resented the feeling that I was "dieting". The problem with the points system, for me, is that anything can be a choice and that anything can lead to eating too much.
Weight loss is tricky and it's great to have this additional info.
Thanks again,
Itryharder
234.6/193/170's by 9/30. :cool:

kaplods
09-16-2010, 05:11 PM
That's exactly why I had to go to an exchange system too. Many high-carb foods trigger such intense hunger/cravings it's not worth going there. I still struggle with making the best choices. If I pick a very high-carb, high GI food like dried fruit as my fruit exchange, for example, I'm more likely to go off-plan, because they trigger such "must-eat" cravings.

It's also why I had to keep reducing the number of high-carb exchanges. My own plan is much higher in protein and fat exchanges and much lower in the higher carb choices than most other exchange plans, but if I don't reduce the carbs that low, I end up so hungry that I don't follow my plan at all.

emaline29
09-16-2010, 06:50 PM
I prefer the one I have as I really can't be bothered with the continual adapting the coices every so often. The less I have to think about what to choose from etc. etc. the better.
The info that I gave is has a lot more to it than that but am not going to type out all of it as it would take all night!
Can't help feeling, Kaplods, that it's like a challenge to you to be more informative and knowledgeable than anyone else!!!

kaplods
09-17-2010, 05:10 PM
Sorry it sounded that way. I wasn't trying to one-up anyone. It's just that I'm an information junkie, and when find information, I tend to have a compulsion to share, especially on topics I'm passionate about. Exchange plans happen to be one of those topics for me. I know that's incredibly dorky - but you should (maybe not) hear me on the topic of science fiction. It never dawns on me that everyone wouldn't want to know more (but then again, I read encyclopedias for fun as a child).


Believe it or not, I've been holding back in this thread (obviously not enough), because I collect exchange plan books and cookbooks, and list more than 50 of them on my 3FC blog (I own about 10, the rest are on my to-read list or are books I checked out from the library). Just like any collector, I can bore people with my excitement over my collection. Because it's a topic I'm crazy about - I expect everyone else to be (not exactly true. I know some people aren't interested, I just always tend to assume they'll ignore what I have to say, It doesn't dawn on me that it could be offensive).

To be clear, I don't consider the information I gave to be "better" in any way than what you shared - only different. There are thousands of exchange plans and they all share more than they differ. I love talking about the similarities and the differences, because I find the topic very interesting.

Part of the reason I tend to get on my soapbox about exchange plans, is because I'm very sad to see that they've lost popularity. Most people seem to view them as obsolete or complicated. I was trying to show that they don't have to be. Yes, I listed the whole complicated WW 1988 plan, but I also wrote about why I think the complicated bits are a lot of hooey.

I suppose I could have kept my mouth (er fingers?) shut, but to what purpose? Keeping possibly helpful information to myself because it could step on someone's toes? What I love about 3FC is that we don't do that. We share information and opinions, even when they can cause disagreements and hurt feelings, because it's information that's too important not to share. I have no delusions regarding the importance of what I share. It's no more important than any one else's - but it's no less important either. I've learned far, far more from others on this site than I can ever repay, and my mini-novels aren't written to surpass anyone, but rather an attempt to pay-back for all that I have received.

Itryharder
09-17-2010, 06:12 PM
Let me chime in and say that both of you gave me information that I had given up on ever finding. Having bought one old WW cookbook a couple of years ago that talked about exchanges and selections but *never* listed the amount allowed daily/weekly, I was very frustrated.
Many thanks to both Emaline and Kaplods for their information. I'm usually posting at the Turtle Group, but you guys had great information that helped me and my dh a lot. Again, many thanks to both of you.
Judy/Itryharder :cool:

Clare
04-13-2012, 09:58 AM
I have the old WW recipe book which also contains the portion sizes and allowances for the day. I have always followed this when I lose weight and have found it very successful. Like anything it is controlling intake to keep the weight off.
Hello there, I was a Weight Watcher back in 1986 on the quick Start programme and found it to be very effective. I was only 19 and managed to lose the stone or so that was needed for me to get back into my jeans confortably. I would really like to try it again and wondered if you could somehow email me or help me find info. about the portions, allowances, exchanges etc.? I had all the brochures and some recipe cards and stupidly threw them all out a few years ago. Big mistake. I remember ticking boxes on a sheet every day, which I used to love doing as it was really satisfying to see visible proof of my efforts on a daily basis.

Any help greatly appreciated.

kaplods
04-13-2012, 01:31 PM
I think this is the book you want, and it's selling on amazon.com (used) for pennies (plus $3.99 shipping).


http://www.amazon.com/Weight-Watchers-Quick-Start-Plume/dp/0452264774/ref=sr_1_sc_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1334334599&sr=1-1-spell

pluckypear
04-30-2012, 12:53 PM
Not on an exchange progam but I am on WW points plus. On my own. Just wanted to say that Kaplods you always post interesting posts. And when I did attend TOPS I wish someone as informative as you was in my group.

Chubbygirl253
07-10-2012, 04:27 AM
I don't care for the points plus and the first time I did WW was in 2007 before they rolled out the PP system. I had some great results back then, I lost 68 lbs in 7 months. So I'm going to take another stab at it. I got back onto the program (well, I'm doing it from home) on June 17th, 2012 and I've lost 9 pounds so far. Yay!:cheer2: