General chatter - Always the friend, never the girlfriend...




wibblewobble
09-01-2010, 11:53 PM
Recently I've been getting really down on myself over the way I look. Most of this stems from the fact that every guy I know/like views me in a purely platonic fashion. I always fall into the "friend zone" and can never find my way out again.

I've heard people say it's all about confidence but I'm a confident person. I know I'm smart and can hold a conversation. I can talk to anyone about anything...I've literally had conversations with people about index cards. People tell me I'm funny.

But something about me makes guys look over me. I NEVER get hit on. EVER. I know people who are bigger than me and they still get plenty of attention. What is it about me that makes guys see me purely as a friend? I asked one of my close guy friends once and he said he didn't know and that there was "nothing wrong with me." Then he said he thought for him it was the fact that I'm sarcastic...

I'm 25 years old and I've only had a bf once when I was 14. That's 11 years!!! To say it's getting frustrating and old is an understatement :(. What is wrong with me and how can I fix it?


ncuneo
09-02-2010, 12:07 AM
Do you flirt or otherwise let them know you're interested?

beerab
09-02-2010, 12:26 AM
If you are down on yourself about the way you look do something to change it. Get a makeover, change up your clothes, put some makeup on (not a lot but a little mascara and lip gloss can do wonders), don't act like "one of the guys."

I would also start meeting some new guys and let them know you are interested, don't be their friend, be a potential love interest- and there is a huge difference in how you act around a guy when you are their friend vs a potential SO.


luckymommy
09-02-2010, 12:29 AM
I really feel for you. :hug: I think sometimes it's just luck and sometimes, it's a certain way someone carries themselves. If someone is always being silly, goofy, sarcastic, witty, it may intimidate men or just not be as mysterious? I really don't know. It might not be the actions at all or even the way you carry yourself. Sometimes it's the way someone dresses that sends a certain message? I'm just guessing really. People can be so shallow. I am sure there's someone out there for everyone. I'm sure you will find someone....the right one. Maybe you could ask a girlfriend, instead of asking a guy. I have actually asked my friends before if there was one thing they would change about my look, what would it be?

Also, have you ever tried to go on a dating website like match.com? That way, when you set up your profile, you can really let someone know what you're like and be honest and that way, a guy who is looking for someone just like you will be able to find you! :)

Windchime
09-02-2010, 12:30 AM
Well, your guy friend did say that he found you sarcastic.....can you evaluate that comment and ask yourself if it's true? Is your sarcasm sometimes over the edge? I know that I can be that way sometimes, and it's off-putting to some people.

It's just something to consider....sometimes we need to soften our approach, and that's an OK thing to adjust if it needs adjusting.

gtech2mit10
09-02-2010, 12:42 AM
I'm having the same struggles as you. 27 and i feel like I'll never date again. I have been getting hit on more recently, but almost never by guys I'm interested in -- they're usually creepy, way too young/old, or otherwise undateable. People often comment that I am intelligent, funny, and charismatic, but none of that seems to matter to romantic interests. I'm not generally competitive person, but meeting my most recent friend/unrequited crush's girfriend and finding her cold, boring, and limp (and def not cuter than me ;) ???) really killed me. It's like none of my personal accomplishments or my knowledge/kindness/efforts to be a good person/recent efforts to look good, etc., matter because I'm missing "it."

I think you've touched on something interesting in your post -- I have a sarcastic edge as well, and sometimes I think I go to far without realizing, and it puts guys off. Also, I wonder if my "joking" demeanor threatens men, or makes me seem less feminine, or something?

LuckyMommy, I didn't see this before I posted, but it's a great question and food for thought:
If someone is always being silly, goofy, sarcastic, witty, it may intimidate men or just not be as mysterious?

wibblewobble
09-02-2010, 12:53 AM
gtech: your situation sounds just like me! Two of the guys I've had crushes on just started romantic relationships. One of the girls I was really good friends with and LOVE her. She's amazing. I get it (still hurts cause she's pretty, blonde, skinny, and has HUGE boobs) but I get it. The other? The girl is self-absorbed, orange due to excessive fake tanning, not physically attractive, and has more wrinkles at 22 (due to fake tanning) than any 40 year old I know. I don't get it. Other than the fact that she's skinny, I don;t get it...

I have a sarcastic sense of humor-it's just me. I don't go to far with it (at least I don't think so) and I don't really show it immediately-only after they get to know me. His point was more that it reminded him of his family and thus I wasn't dateable/attractive to him. It was the only thing he could think of.

I do flirt. I've read all the articles on body-language and I try (legs crossed towards them, smile a lot, laugh at stupid jokes, etc.). None of it works. When they meet me they aren't physically attracted to me and thus I'm put in the friend zone.

Do I feel physically attractive? Yeah most of the time. But to be honest I don't really think about how I look most of the time.

One guy told me that he was attracted to one girl, in part, because of her sense of style. She dressed in skirts and dresses EVERY day. Hair perfectly done. Make-up on. I thought she was high maintanence...I assumed guys would too. I thought my casual style was a bonus (see how NOT high maintanence I am?!?!) but it isn't...it's so very frustrating!

I don't want to have to change my personality to get a guy...

gtech2mit10
09-02-2010, 01:07 AM
wibblewobble -- hilarious! "my' guy's gf is ALSO 22, also wrinkled to **** with terrible skin (I feel so terrible for saying it)...and her only redeeming quality is that she is skinny. **ONLY** !!! skinrny. Nice girl, too, I guess (but who isn't?) but such a helpless, clueless bimbo, and such a waste for a guy as funny/intelligent as my friend. It was all I could do not to cry when I met her.

I think those articles about wearing vanilla or touching your clavicle to get a guy are entertaining garbage. ;)

One of the things that has helped me though, is to make an effort to look put together. The hits plunge to zero when I don't do my hair, or at least wear some makeup or something that I feel cute in. I wonder if men need the makeup/feminie clothes thing as a cue that you're ready to mingle ;)? I totally feel you on not wanting to change your personality to hook a guy, so maybe going for a less casual, more polished look would be more palatable as a strategy.

MK2010
09-02-2010, 05:37 AM
The big change in my dating life was when I stopped worrying about it. I stopped worrying whether a guy would like me enough, find me attractive enough, get over all of my hideous flaws to see the real me ... I could go on for ever about all of the things I saw as wrong with myself.
But when I compared the friends who had to beat guys off with a stick and those whose dating diaries looked like a desert...the difference was how they felt about themselves.
Not that the ones who dated lots were the most beautiful or most intelligent or thinnest or funniest or nicest. They were the ones who weren't hung up on their flaws. They had flaws - they knew they had them - and they were convinced that the right guy would see those flaws as endearing!
If wrinkly orange poo faces can get boyfriends - there is no doubt you will too..

I know you are not meant to call people poo faces...but if I call her that - I save your karma!

guamvixen
09-02-2010, 10:25 AM
I had this friend who weighed about 245 lbs was 5'5'' and had NO trouble getting good looking, nice guys. I never knew what it was about her that made her so appealing to men. She needed braces. Bad. She had a beard, that she had to shave, and by 10a, she had a 5 o'clock shadow. She was a nice girl, and had great hair, but that was really it. The only difference between her and me, aside from me being bigger than her, was she was very girly. Had great style, confidence, and when I asked her once what my issue was, she said I was too goofy, too funny, and I wasn't to be taken serious by men because of that. She said guys like personality, but apparently I was too extreme. So then I asked her, "what's a girl to do?" I think I was goofy and funny b/c I lacked confidence, I felt if I made it aware that I knew I was overweight before someone else could point it out, then I wouldn't be shocked with rejection later down the road. Anyway, her response to my question was "you need to be charming!" To this day, and a 121lbs lost later, I still have no flippin' clue how to be charming. Plus I need to be myself. I like being funny, and goofy, and silly. My fiance' hasn't complained. He thinks I'm adorable, and I'm also probably the most clumsy person to walk the earth.

The moral of this story is, for me, looking back, it was I who put myself in the friend zone before the guys did. I didn't want them to reject me first, so I just sat from the bleachers and watched. But then I put myself in the game. And I can't say I found love b/c I lost weight, he knew me when I was big. He was always there, but I was too afraid of what he would think of my body, and I realized I wanted to like myself first, before I could actually let true love in.

Hope that makes sense. BIG HUGS!

sarahyu
09-02-2010, 10:45 AM
Take heart, one day one of those friends might develop into love. I only had guy friends for years until one guy became more then friends. I had to go away for a long business trip and found that I missed him a lot and wanted to talk with him about things, and when I got back I had found he had the same feelings so we figured out that we were more then friends and got married a year later. I was older then most so don't get too discouraged, there's hope that it will happen with you also.

And you know, honestly , I'm glad that we started at as friends because after 20 years of marriage, that passion has sort of faded but the friendship is still there. Not many people can say their husband is their best friend.

I'm no beauty queen let me tell you- short, stocky, red nose, socially inept and sarcastic but he still loves me. So take your time, don't be down about yourself. Make what ever changes you want, see what happens and just have fun with life.

Good luck

Coondocks
09-02-2010, 11:21 AM
The moral of this story is, for me, looking back, it was I who put myself in the friend zone before the guys did. I didn't want them to reject me first, so I just sat from the bleachers and watched. But then I put myself in the game. And I can't say I found love b/c I lost weight, he knew me when I was big. He was always there, but I was too afraid of what he would think of my body, and I realized I wanted to like myself first, before I could actually let true love in.

Hope that makes sense. BIG HUGS!


There it is, right there. Have to love yourself first, as cheesey and cliche as that is, you have to.
When I met my sons father I was at my heaviest and HE chased me, Im talking 6'4 dirty blonde hair, blue eyed fire fighter that looks like a young john travolta . . . when I asked him one day why cause frankly I'm nothing like his 'type' he has always gone for the tall, fit, big boobs, blonde hair girly girls . . Im the opposite, literally. Here's what he told me.

"You're the most conifident person I had ever met, I flirted with you and you didn't miss a bit, just threw it right back. You're sure of yourself, you get what you want and you work to get it" he went on to talk about how I could have an adult conversation but still be a silly kid when I wanted to, loved that I find humor in things, love that I have that sarcastic ego - to this day I don't know sometimes if I'm being sarcastic or down right egocentric when I say I'm just awesome.
But what stuck with me, was I was ALWAYS so sure of myself, always confident (even when I wasn't, I put on the brave face and sooner or later the brave face is reality) and my way of looking at things were simple.
This is me, take it or leave it but this is me.

Im not at all girly btw . . . well I wasn't then. I was a straight up tom boy. Im developing a love for the vintage/elegant/pin up style though which is feminine without being over the top I think.

That turned out longer than I thought. Basically I think it boils down to what you believe about yourself. I've never thought someone was 'out of my league' or anything like that. There are too many good things about me if they can't see it, oh well - I think that comes off more than people realize.

ThicknPretty
09-02-2010, 12:38 PM
1) Men are typically drawn to feminine qualities, characteristics and behaviors. Of course, you can't say this for ALL men, but it's pretty safe to say that a lot of men are drawn to women who are feminine and counterbalance their masculinity. It's funny...some of the things that men find sexy are so simple...they like to watch a woman pull her hair up, they like to see her putting heels on, they like to watch us putting lipstick on. Most of them appreciate when a woman can be a little vulnerable. They generally like to show us how to do things and watch out for us a little. When I was overweight, I was the defensive, sarcastic, goofy, impulsive one who wore a lot of hoodies, baggy pants and flats. I was....kind of a dude. I didn't feel comfortable showing my feminine side because of my weight, which is sad. Now that I've lost most of the weight I want to, I definitely put more care into my appearance and flirt more. I'm more comfortable being a little more low key and reserved and letting men approach me, I don't feel like I have to put myself out there or make a scene to get attention as much.

2) I agree with guamvixen...you have to make an effort to not land yourself in the friend zone. First impressions are crucial (no pressure, no pressure lol). It's not that you need to change who you are, you just need to do things a little differently so that men are able to catch a glimpse of the sexy, feminine, intriguing woman that you are.

dragonwoman64
09-02-2010, 09:38 PM
love that avatar, guamvixen, loved your post too.

I think if you feel sexy, and if guys feel you're attracted to them in a romantic way, that will put you on their radar. men like to feel attractive too. Have their jokes laughed at, get attention, flirted with, etc. I don't think you have to change your personality. Some guys love sarcasm in a woman and seek it out.

Number8
09-03-2010, 01:12 PM
I have a big personality, All my friends are men. I did the opposite of what most of the women here suggest- I never put on lipstick- ew - would rather cover myself in paper cuts then wear heals ouch!
When I met a guy I liked I'd just be strait up about it. Hey- your cute, lets chill. The day I met my fiance I literally had to chase him down. We'd gone out with some mutual friends and he thought it was a blind date so he did his best to keep a friend or two between us. It wasn't set up but I was totally in lust at first sight! It took 2 more group events before he actually had a conversation with me and found out we have tons in common (go figure). I guess having a 200Lb gal with a buzz cut in baggy men's clothes can be a bit intimidating, but that really wasn't my problem :P

I never dated often and most of the guys I am friends with now have NO CLUE how a guy would date let alone marry me (yes they've said that)
If your interested in a guy make the first move and make it early. Don't change anything about yourself (unless your a serial killer or something really horrifying) You'll win some and you'll loose some, but at least you'll be in charge! If someone doesn't like you it's because they are too closed-minded to give you the chance you deserve and that's their loss- not your fault.

Go girl power! :flow1:

katkitten
09-03-2010, 07:46 PM
1) I was....kind of a dude. .

:lol:

this thread is really eye opening. I think I do a lot of this: the sarcasm, the setting myself up as a friend, the being a dude lol

it IS frustrating to think that we cant be ourselves and get a guy. But maybe I'll appeal to the scientist in me and run an experiment next time I meet some guys lol

katkitten
09-03-2010, 07:54 PM
I just googled "how to flirt" and I have to ask: How do you girls DO any of that without feeling silly?

dragonwoman64
09-04-2010, 12:09 PM
imho, flirting should be natural and follow from your attraction to someone. you talk and joke and well, flirt! ha. flirting can just be a look, body language. it's a way you show someone you like them. if you follow a formula, it seems to me it can come across as forced.

instincts and letting things develop organically, that seems more healthy to me.

yeah, girl power! ha

you have to be a little thick skinned and strong ego-ed for dating and so forth. every one has his/her own issues and agendas

Missinternational09
09-04-2010, 03:25 PM
I feel like this post is my life. I'm 19 never really had a bf and I was thinking to myself the other day what is it about me that makes guys not want to date me? But after pondering on that thought for some time, I realized that I think I make myself seem unapproachable to some guys in a romantic sense. I have to agree with anyone who said we put ourselves on the sideline before the man has a chance to do it. I believe that dating and finding love is all about having confidence in yourself and understanding that you are a prize big, small, girly or tomboy. Finding yourself unworthy to date a guy I feel is a thing that we as women do but the men have no issues with being overweight, bald, and smelly trying to ask the cutest girl in the room out on a date.

theCandEs
09-04-2010, 05:32 PM
Hi! Just thought I'd offer my 2 cents. I don't think size is your real problem here. I think it's the sarcasm. I know, I know, a lot of people are sarcastic, and I used to be (sometimes still am), one of them. But when a man is looking for a woman, he doesn't want to be made to feel stupid, even if, let's face it, he is. When used as a put-down, sarcasm is just mean. If it's not him you are putting down, but yourself, then that is just as mean, and he will not respond well to that either. I realized when I was about 24 or so that I was being mean a lot of the time, to myself and to others. Think about it this way, if someone said the things you say to you, how would you respond? You might say they don't take it well because they don't have a good sense of humor, but turn it around and you be him. What would you think?

mkendrick
09-04-2010, 06:05 PM
I think your guy friend who said you were sarcastic was onto something, he just didn't have the right words for it. Sarcasm is probably only part of it.

I'm guessing that you present yourself as a fun cool chick that could hang with the guys. And that is appealing to guys, but as you're finding, it's appealing to them as a friend prospect, not a girlfriend. You can relate to guys on a guy level, which is good, but that makes them have the same buddy feelings as they do with their guy friends.

I can switch between flirty and feminine "one of the guys" pretty easily. Just depends on who I'm with and what I'm doing. I don't have to change my personality to make the switch, I'm never "acting" a certain way, I just make a conscious effort to express different facets of my personality. Just like how different parts of your personality are expressed at work versus with your friends. When I was flirting and dating (I'm engaged now), I would tap into my femme fatale side...when I was with my guy friends, I'd cut up and just chill with them.

Guys appreciate femininity in potential mates. It's kind of a yin and yang thing, I guess. This doesn't mean you have to be a ditzy super girly barbie doll, but there are feminine signals that say "I am a potential mate" instead of "I'm a buddy."