General Diet Plans and Questions - Intermittent Fasting




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Risssa
08-26-2010, 01:28 AM
I've been trying intermittent fasting for the past few weeks and it has been going well.

I am wondering if anyone else has heard of it or tried it? Thanks.


miamimelting
08-26-2010, 07:01 AM
I've been doing a shake fast for the past 28 days! I've lost 20 lbs. It is medically supervised. Like anything if you don't figure out why you eat then you will gain the weight back. It doesn't matter how you lose it, it matter what you are going to do to maintain it. 95% of people gain it back...simply because they lose it and don't have a plan of keeping it off. The program I'm with has a 6 week transition back to food and then 6 months or more of maintenence classes. It will take me a little over 4 months to drop 80lbs. Which has been easy so far. It will be much harder to maintain.

Risssa
08-26-2010, 03:07 PM
I am referring to a form of fat loss and muscle building, not a "spiritual" or "religious" experience.



It is a form of eating based on paleolithic eating style.

If you have tried it, are doing it, or know anything about it please post!

I've only been using it for the past two weeks, and its been a great supplement to my lifestyle.

Thanks!!


srmb60
08-26-2010, 03:16 PM
Mark Sisson talks about it in his book "Primal Blueprint" and on his website.

As I understand ... it has more to do with carefully planning meals around periods of fasting rather than seeing how long you can go without eating which is what I think people understand fasting to be.

The term "fasting" is probably one of those words that can be ill-used and ill-understood.

kaplods
08-26-2010, 03:57 PM
Skipping meals has generally been a bad idea for me, because if I go too long without eating, my hunger runs amok, and I overeat. However, after reading Primal Blueprint, I realized that I didn't have to time meals on a rigidly timed schedule either.

In the past skipping meals were usually an attempt to postpone eating as long as possible (and inevitably resulted in out-of-control bingeing).

I think there may be something to intermittent fasting - but I suspect it would work best within the framework of a lower carb primal diet. I don't think it would work very well with a high carb diet because of the blood sugar spikes that would likely occur.

ohmai
08-28-2010, 04:09 PM
Can you give us an idea of what your results are like, Risssa? I'm interested in trying this as well.

Anonymia
08-29-2010, 04:17 AM
I practice an Intermittent fasting lifestyle, granted due to stress and etc I've not done so for awhile...

Ever heard of Fast5? That moreorless represented my eating habits except in my case it's Fast-3 - Fasting for 21 hours and an eating window of three.

Personally I find that once you've started, it becomes a habit but once you slip and start to extend your eating window more and more... It's much more harder to get back on track.

I love intermittent fasting, now if only I could regain the willpower to stay on track...

This type of lifestyle change isn't the best for those whom have stressful lives and tend to be emotional eaters.

ddc
08-29-2010, 08:15 PM
I followed Fast-5, well I did a Fast-6, from last Oct til this March and lost 18 lbs. of my creeping maintenance weight that I let get out of control.
Over the summer, I've gotten lax with my snacks and regained 5 lbs. I've gotta get back on track.
I really like it. I don't have to worry about eating so much. Saved me some money and I lost weight.

Risssa
08-30-2010, 02:39 AM
I fast for 18 hours and have an 8 hour eating window. I eat two meals a day and training fasted in the morning (with the protein supplement) works great for me.

My attention and energy is better. And one of the perks is I've been able to reduce my attachment to food and being afraid of being hungry. This is such a huge milestone. It allows me to look at food, as food and not as a source of comfort. Now when I think I am hungry, I have some water and usually I am thirst. I do not feel weak or that I am starving myself. 24 hour fasts are still tough. My goal is to 24 hour fast once a month. For me this is much about the reducing calories as it is about reducing my emotional dependency on food as it is the health benefits.

I follow a combination of leangains by Martin Berkhan and Eat Stop Eat by Brad Pilon. Google these guys if you want information. I really like how they are since and research based. IFing (intermittent fasting) is right now not an issue for me. I am trying to bump up my intake of fruits and veggies right now.

doopdoop
06-04-2011, 08:07 PM
I'm sorry if there is already a thread/post on this, but I did search for one before I made this.

I'm looking for some advice on intermittent fasting. I'd like to give it a shot, and I'm wondering if anyone would be kind enough to share their personal IF plans and ideas on what works/doesn't work. Thanks!

JohnP
06-04-2011, 09:42 PM
There are a couple of pretty large threads going on although I'm not sure where they are. You can search my posts and find both pretty easily I'd imagine.

doopdoop
06-04-2011, 10:19 PM
Thank you

Mishflynn
06-05-2011, 04:11 AM
yep loving the IF. Helps me no end! Hope to see you soon on the support thread!

bigdee
11-28-2011, 07:03 AM
Has anyone tried this plan?

indiblue
11-28-2011, 12:09 PM
Hello! There are a lot of us who are IFing. The support group thread is here: http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/support-groups/243931-if-intermittent-fasting-support-group-part-ii.html

However, I wouldn't really consider it a plan. IF doesn't help you lose weight directly, as it consists of intaking the same number of calories you would if you didn't IF. Its indirect effects- curbing hunger and munching, regulating hormones, etc- help some of us stick to our plans, but IF itself isn't really a weight loss plan.

Hope that helps! Look forward to chatting more.

stephaniegee
04-03-2012, 11:52 PM
i've been seeing more and more about intermittent fasting and i think i like the idea. but i don't get it? do you only get to eat one meal a day? how long should you do IF (as in like weeks or months, should i do it until i reach my goal weight)? how many days a week? will it help me lose weight in the long run? will it have 'crash diet' effects? if anyone knows how could they explain to me how to do it in layman's terms? i'm having a hard time getting the whole gist of it. thanks guys!

JohnP
04-04-2012, 12:27 AM
There are a couple of threads on this ... search under my name and you'll find all of them.

Intermittent fasting essentialy is a lifestyle, not a specific diet plan. In that sense it is not something you do for a while and then stop it is something you do forever. I've been doing it for a couple years now following a 16/8 plan. There are three basic ways most people do it.

16/8 - Fast for 16 hours, eat for 8. Essentialy you're just skipping breakfast.

Fast 5 - Fast for 19 hours, eat for 5.

Eat Stop Eat - A couple times a week you fast for 24 hours.

Theoretically there are health benefits to doing this but at the moment those benefits have only been demonstrated in rodet or epidemiological studies. For myself and most people who follow it we're simply using it as a mechanism to limit calories.

I don't think anyone should consider IF if they do not already have their eating pretty well under control. Trying to learn how to eat "right" while also training your body when to expect food is a lot of additional stress.

Check out the threads...

LandonsBaby
04-04-2012, 12:28 AM
From what I understand you choose the number of hours per day you want to fast (12, 14, 16, 28, 20, etc) by whatever works for you. Some people may fast 16 hours and have an 8 hour window while some fast 1 or 2 full days per week. I personally fast 12-14 but I'd like to get up to 16-18.

You could eat just one meal a day I suppose, if that works for you. I have heard a couple people say that is what they do but I'm not sure if they were trying to lose weight.

I think people generally do it forever? That would be my assumption. If it's a way of eating that works for you then I would think you'd want to keep at it.

It isn't a miracle. If you fast 20 hours a day and then eat 4000 calories within four hours you aren't going to lose weight. You still have to have to monitor how much you are going to eat (if weight loss is the goal). But for some people it works better to have larger meals than to spread them out all day. There is also research that shows fasting may be good for the body. And some people just like knowing they aren't going to be in the kitchen all day!

gracewriter
04-04-2012, 12:30 AM
I was just reading about this. It sounds great. I'd like to know more about it too.

I think I have my biggest losses when I do something similar. One day I'll eat 500 calories and the next 1200, then 900, then 800, then 700 or something along those lines.

I don't do it on purpose, but I do take off more weight faster when I do.

This isn't that diet but I'm a believer in doing an extremely low calorie day or two, then bumping it up for a few days. Looking back over my records, it looks like that's when I have the biggest losses.

Did you see the book reviews on amazon? It's called the Up Down Diet or something like that. Some people really love it. It also sounds like a great way to maintain. They don't lose weight as fast as I do, but they do lose significant amounts and it's much more practical than what I'm doing for most people.

Correction, this is not the diet these guys are talking about, but it does sound intriguing!

cheers!

Arctic Mama
04-04-2012, 12:30 AM
IF is excellent, do look into it! For controlling calories without deprivation, if nothing else, it excels. That it positively affects body composition and metabolism of many who do it is a nice bonus ;)

I do what John does, a 16/8 fast where I condense my meals into an eight to ten hour window and then fast throughout sleep and the morning (I break it with a brunch/lunch). It works wonderfully for me and is very satiation and easy to do. Google around but I recommend checking out Leangains for a good starting FAQ - there are many ways to do it, but Martin's is a good balance for me (especially with my particular fitness goals):
http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html

luckymommy
04-04-2012, 12:44 AM
I just started doing this recently, without really realizing it and when I discovered people here were all into it, I took it more seriously. I actually love it because so far (and only so far), it has helped me control my binge eating and I've lost weight easier. I feel great doing it.

meltaway
04-04-2012, 12:44 AM
What everyone else said. Lol. I lost the most weight on IF without even really trying. :)

LandonsBaby
04-04-2012, 02:06 AM
I think I have my biggest losses when I do something similar. One day I'll eat 500 calories and the next 1200, then 900, then 800, then 700 or something along those lines.

Correction, this is not the diet these guys are talking about, but it does sound intriguing!


Yeah, that's cycling and it does sound like you go rather low.

ValRock
04-04-2012, 02:20 AM
It works GREAT for me.

I've always choked breakfast down, because I thought I had to. I HATED wasting calories when I wasn't hungry on foods I don't really even like.

IF is perfect for me. I'm only hungry in the evenings. I have a later eating window than most people. I don't usually eat anything until dinner time, and keep my eating window open for about 6 hours. I'm so busy during the day that finding something to eat is more of a hassle anyway. I'm not hungry and I don't have to worry about eating during the day. I get to eat a big meal in the evening, and snack a bit without guilt, at night. It's win win for me!

unwanted37lbs
04-04-2012, 09:40 AM
i do 1 time a week fasting for 24 hours. I have just water on Mondays. Fasting for me takes care of cravings and makes me satisfy with smaller portions of meals on days i do eat.

twinieten
04-04-2012, 09:49 AM
I use intermittent fasting as a means of calorie control, and water weight control.

I didn't even realize I was doing the 16/8 until reading JohnP's post! I simply grew tired of forcing breakfast upon myself based on some idea that you have to eat breakfast to increase your metabolism. Now I break the fast later in the day when it feels right for me, and it's really helped me get through my day without over eating. If I'm hungry, I'll eat earlier, though. I'm not that rigid about it. It's just, now I don't force myself.

I like to do a 24 hour fast about once every other week, and sometimes once a week. I just wait until I have a day off of work. It helps eliminate retained water and balance out the calories I've consumed for the week.

I even fast prior to or following a planned "bad day" like when I'm going to a party, the movies or out to dinner, and I know I'm going to eat something bad or overdo it, or I will want a beer or whatever.

Like many, I didn't realize I was intermittent fasting. I was just trying to find balance and a way to have my cake and eat it too. I didn't realize it was a healthy life style option, until one day I googled it.

krampus
04-04-2012, 11:37 AM
I don't call it IF but I don't really feel like eating until ~1-2 PM most days, so I don't! By dinnertime I'm hungry so I eat, and then I'm done until the next day.

Sum38
04-04-2012, 11:56 AM
I am in love with IF!
Check this out http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/general-diet-plans-questions/255437-eat-stop-eat-fast-5-2012-a.html

sontaikle
04-04-2012, 12:00 PM
The more I look at IF the more I realize that I did some form of it while losing and occasionally do it now while maintaining. I often gave myself a 12 hour window to eat (6 am to 6pm) because that's when I was my hungriest. Nothing was allowed after dinner.

I don't really do this while maintaining because I don't get enough calories.

Desiderata
04-04-2012, 12:28 PM
I've read research about the benefits of IF and pretty much practice it these days without really meaning trying... but here's one thing I keep wondering about:

How is IF different, in practice, from unhealthy disordered eating habits of skipping meals? I get that the intent is very different, but in practice, it just keeps striking me that IF is a sanitized, repackaged, and now-sanctioned version of a very old, common dieting behavior.

I realize that sounds kind of negative. Again, I'm aware of the research on how fasting promotes autophagy and other goodness, and I'm not averse to it. But maybe someone can help enlighten me -- isn't this an example of everything old is new again?

thistoo
04-04-2012, 12:34 PM
How is IF different, in practice, from unhealthy disordered eating habits of skipping meals?

I'd say the biggest difference is that people who follow IF aren't 'starving' themselves. They're creating a calorie deficit, which is exactly what calorie counters and low carbers and everyone else here does, but it's a healthy calorie deficit.

I do two 24-hour fasts a week. I stop eating from dinner on Monday to dinner on Tuesday, and then I break my fast with a good dinner and usually a snack which comes to between 600 and 700 calories. Non-fast days I usually eat 1400-1600 calories. That means my daily average calorie intake is 1200 calories. I think anyone can agree that that's a healthy weight loss range for someone who's five feet tall.

I don't think skipping meals necessarily equates to 'disordered eating'. Your body doesn't care *when* you eat the calories. If you mean anorexics who skip meals specifically to keep their calories at an unhealthy level, I don't think it's the same at all.

ennay
04-04-2012, 01:27 PM
I've read research about the benefits of IF and pretty much practice it these days without really meaning trying... but here's one thing I keep wondering about:

How is IF different, in practice, from unhealthy disordered eating habits of skipping meals? I get that the intent is very different, but in practice, it just keeps striking me that IF is a sanitized, repackaged, and now-sanctioned version of a very old, common dieting behavior.

I realize that sounds kind of negative. Again, I'm aware of the research on how fasting promotes autophagy and other goodness, and I'm not averse to it. But maybe someone can help enlighten me -- isn't this an example of everything old is new again?

Well...for starters, unless you are talking starvation diets, part of the premise is that "skipping meals" is not automatically "unhealthy or disordered". The diet industry has jumped on the 5 meal bandwagon - doesnt necessarily mean it is better.

The problem on some of the old diets would be that fasting would go on for prolonged periods, not intermittently. My MIL grew up with the notion that dieting equalled "dont eat anything for as long as you can" and then when you do eat limit it to celery. That isnt what IF is. It is not a starvation diet.

For me - and this varies depending on what style of IF you do, it is just backing away from the current trend of "6 small meals" and reallocating those calories into 2 meals per day. I am so much happier eating 2 700-900 calorie meals than tiny meals.

For others they may still snack, just in a smaller window. Or in the E-S-E version they may have a few lower calorie days a week bracketed by normal or above calories. - basically calorie cycling except again, avoiding trying to divvy up the lowest calorie days into 5-6 segments.

I can see how it is not for everyone..but for me, I used to look at people who did calorie counting at 1200-1400 calories a day and just shake my head. I can NOT do that on the 5-6 meal a day plan. 150-200 calories for me is appetite STIMULATING not "preventing me from getting too hungry". Even 300-400 can often just trigger more hunger, not satisfaction. (and yes, I've tried every combo of carb/fat/protein)

The kicker for me is blood sugar control. I am pre-diabetic/insulin resistant and fell into the "eat frequently to help control blood sugar" trap. But when I would test my blood sugar what I found with frequent meals is I never got low. I often did not come anywhere close to a healthy "pre-meal" range I was just continually elevating my blood sugar. From 7 am to at least 3 hours after my last meal I was carrying around damagingly high blood sugar. On most days this means about 15 hours of damage

Now I DO get slightly larger spikes....but not as much larger as one would expect given a larger meal, but I spend much longer portions of my day in a healthy range AND I am training my body to not see 110-120 as "starvation starvation send in more sugar!!!!!" which is where I usually would be before meals on an eat frequently plan - or sometimes higher. Now, I have elevated blood sugar for about 2 hours after each of my 2 meals. Maybe 4-5 hours a day of elevated numbers, and MUCH less sensitivity to the composition of my meal. Fruit is no longer a death spiral waiting to happen.

Ija
04-04-2012, 01:42 PM
For me - and this varies depending on what style of IF you do, it is just backing away from the current trend of "6 small meals" and reallocating those calories into 2 meals per day. I am so much happier eating 2 700-900 calorie meals than tiny meals.

This goes for me too --I like eating real, substantial meals, not 200-300 calorie snacks. I do the 16/8 method (I eat 3 meals between 1pm and 9pm, and that's it). I don't miss breakfast, and am not hungry in the morning. Although I'm not trying to lose weight, IF has helped tremendously with maintenance because I no longer obsess about food all the time, and I don't have to spend much time or energy planning a million small meals each day. Plus, when I eat, I get to really EAT... I cap off my night with a nice full meal (dinner is usually 1000 calories or so), and go to bed happy.

IF for life! :)

ValRock
04-04-2012, 03:02 PM
For me, it's different, because I'm still eating a healthy number of calories. But instead of riding the blood sugar roller coaster all day, mine spikes while I'm asleep!

Beach Patrol
04-04-2012, 03:16 PM
I do IF on weekends & any days off work (holidays, vacation, etc). Without all the blahblahblah, yaddayaddayadda of it all, it's basically a way to control caloric intake by portion control - because if you are fasting, even for just a specific amount of time, you are limiting "how much you eat."

I say "whatever works for you is the right thing to do" :D

krampus
04-04-2012, 03:25 PM
How is IF different, in practice, from unhealthy disordered eating habits of skipping meals? I get that the intent is very different, but in practice, it just keeps striking me that IF is a sanitized, repackaged, and now-sanctioned version of a very old, common dieting behavior.

It's different because ideally IF = eating a normal amount of daily calories within your eating window - as opposed to eating, say, 1800 calories spread out over 3 meals and 3 snacks, you can eat 1800 calories in 2 bigger meals or 1800 calories in one huge meal.

JohnP
04-04-2012, 03:31 PM
I would argue that skipping meals does not mean one has an eating disorder. You can have an eating disorder and eat 5x a day.

If you have an eating disorder, you have one. Skipping meals may or may not be a part of one's eating disorder.

Arctic Mama
04-04-2012, 03:32 PM
Good explanations, everyone! I wish we could sticky some of these.

Sum38
04-04-2012, 03:35 PM
I'd say the biggest difference is that people who follow IF aren't 'starving' themselves. They're creating a calorie deficit, which is exactly what calorie counters and low carbers and everyone else here does, but it's a healthy calorie deficit.

I do two 24-hour fasts a week. I stop eating from dinner on Monday to dinner on Tuesday, and then I break my fast with a good dinner and usually a snack which comes to between 600 and 700 calories. Non-fast days I usually eat 1400-1600 calories. That means my daily average calorie intake is 1200 calories. I think anyone can agree that that's a healthy weight loss range for someone who's five feet tall.

I don't think skipping meals necessarily equates to 'disordered eating'. Your body doesn't care *when* you eat the calories. If you mean anorexics who skip meals specifically to keep their calories at an unhealthy level, I don't think it's the same at all.

Ditto :) i still eat 1200-1500 cal per day.

freelancemomma
04-04-2012, 04:37 PM
I also dislike tiny portions, but IF wouldn't work for me because I get too hungry. My solution is to have one 500-to-600-calorie item per meal, rather than nibbles of several items. So for breakfast I'd rather have two bowls of cereal than one small bowl of cereal, a little yoghurt, a little fruit, some nuts, etc. For lunch I often have two small tortilla pizzas or a large pita bread with homemade dip, and for dinner I may have a huge bowl of stirfry or a bowl of fresh pasta with sauce. The nutrients don't always work out favourably on a given day, but over a week's time I think I get all the nutrients I need.

Freelance

banananutmuffin
04-04-2012, 04:47 PM
IFing was the only way I managed to break through a plateau, and it's resulted in the biggest lose for me.

I am not regimented about it, though, because my social meal schedule varies each day.

About once a week I do a 20-24 hour fast. The other days, I may fast 14-18 hours, or I may not fast at all. I do typically skip breakfast, but often my dinner isn't until midnight, so I'm not exactly stretching into a long fast on those days.

I agree that having your eating under control first can be helpful.

IFing was hard initially, as I was under the habit of eating 4-5 times a day. I did get hungry. Eating a mostly paleo/primal diet has helped with that, as the protein and fat is satiating.

I also listen to my body. If I planned a fast that day, but my stomach is rumbling and I feel weak/lightheaded, then I will eat. Some days we just need more fuel for whatever reason, and I try to clue into what my body needs.

That said, IFing is simply a way for me to control my caloric intake. My "meals" when I ate 4-5 per day were simply way to large and didn't create a calorie deficit large enough to lead to weight loss. By IFing, I create that deficit.

A typical day for me would be to skip breakfast and lunch, then have a snack to break my fast. A little while later I'll have a dinner of meat/veggies, and possibly even a small snack before bed, depending on the time I eat dinner.

LockItUp
04-04-2012, 05:01 PM
My husband has been doing IF forever, he's tried to explain it to me, but I understand it better now. You people speak my language! Maybe I will try it, because I'll tell ya, after 2 weeks now of 1200-1550 calories, my little meals are starting to seem so sad and small, whereas before they seemed fine. Probably because I'm working out quite a bit, my appitite seems to be increasing as the days pass. It'd be nice to eat like a really HUGE meal. I think I'll try this out and see how it works for me.

Sum38
04-04-2012, 05:09 PM
LockItUp That was me! First of all; I have always hated bfast. ALWAYS! I ate it because I was told it was the right way to eat. -- Now I feel like I am freed and I can eat the way I want to eat. I love it. So I usually eat my first meal around 12 noon or 1 pm. AND I love big meals. So I usually pack 800 calories worth dinner stuff on.

Granted I am new on IF, but so far I have not gained any wight...yay me.... I feel amazing, and I am happy that I can eat the way it suits me.

Desiderata
04-05-2012, 12:32 PM
Thanks, everyone, for explaining! I've been thinking about this since posting and I guess I'm struck that this is one of those deeply-engrained thought patterns for me. In my mind, skipping meals to save up calories for a bigger meal later is often indicative of disordered eating - and my brain's having a hard time dislodging that thought, even as I objectively see that it's not necessarily true. Cognitive bias, ladies and gents!

Like I said before, I essentially practice IF these days anyway, more for the supposed health benefits than for the calorie restricting. But I appreciate hearing everyone's perspectives.

banananutmuffin
04-05-2012, 12:37 PM
Well, there are people with disordered eating patterns who DO skip meals and/or binge, so I can understand why you see it this way.

Honestly, IFing gives me a feeling of control about what I eat and when I eat it. Is that disordered? Maybe. But I kind of feel like as long as I'm not doing anything unhealthy to my body (i.e. major restriction or purging), then I'm in safe territory.

ennay
04-05-2012, 04:31 PM
Deisderata - its really about the WHY not the what. For many of us its also about once the floodgates open it is hard to close them.

Disordered eating isnt skipping to save up for a big meal. Disordered is skipping because food/calories are "bad" "to be avoided" "because if I eat I am worthless, no willpower, a fat pig (etc.)" because "if less is good then nothing is better" etc. There are dozens of different expressions of an eating disorder but the disorder is really rooted in the emotions and self talk that come WITH it, not the specific manner of eating or not eating.

Erinyes74
04-10-2012, 10:04 AM
For many of us its also about once the floodgates open it is hard to close them.

This is me, in a nutshell. The mantra about eating lots of small meals multiple times a day really doesn't work as well for me as skipping a meal. That tends to make me more hungry, believe it or not, and then I am quickly out of control. I cannot seems to eat "small and frequent"-- I overeat, don't feel satisfied, and worse, I end up obsessing about my next meal in 3 hours.

I find skipping a meal to be effortless. And really, I don't think of it as skipping a meal, it's more like eating only between 11am-7pm. For whatever reason, I find it incredibly simple to constrain myself to this "window".

I kept thinking something was wrong because 6 small meals over 18 hours never worked well for me. Seems like I have found what does work better for me!

LisaTcan
04-10-2012, 11:27 AM
Deisderata - I kind of get where you're coming from. I used have and eating disorder in my teens and I really enjoy the lifestyle of IF but for some reason it makes me feel a little guilty, like I'm heading back into disordered territory. I think it has to do with how you look at it mentally. You could do IF with an eating disordered mentality as a lot of anorexics do or you could do it without one as lots of people on this forum do.

I kind of play a 'trick' on my self so I don't get too heady about it. I eat breakfast at 12pm, lunch at 3pm and dinner at 8pm.

Rikku
12-03-2012, 03:38 PM
Hello everyone! I have been fasting for approximently 48 hours at a time, just water and coffee and then eating one meal (usually dinner) before fasting again. I did lots of research about fasting and pay close attention to my body. I really have felt great. At first, I lost 9 pounds in 7 days which was great. I even lost a dress size. However, I have actually GAINED weight the last few days. I'm not overeating when I do eat my one meal, so what do you think is going wrong? Could it be the coffee? I do put cream and sugar in it. But I only have one cup per day. Is it possible to gain 2 pounds of water weight in one day?

EricAnn
12-03-2012, 04:04 PM
I don't know all the science-y stuff behind IF, but I've been doing my own version of it during the week (the weekends are too difficult to do this during) and I have to be careful with what foods I eat and how much. My stomach definitely shrinks up after the 16 or so hours of not eating so I need to get enough calories (1200-1500) in, but in a "smaller" portion, or I feel bloated and my body seems to hold onto a lot of it. So you might have to play around with your sodium content, make sure you're getting a lot of healthy fats and lean protein, lots of fiber and complex carbs to sustain you for the 48 hours or so (that seems like such a long time not to eat for!).

Anyways, I'm guessing the couple pounds is either from something high in sodium or your body might be getting more used to this style of eating and you might have to change the timing of your eating (and yes, it is possible to gain 2 pounds of water weight in a day). I doubt a coffee a day would effect you that much.

There are a few people on here that are pretty stead-fast IF-ers though that will probably have more insight on this.

kelleyb
12-03-2012, 05:29 PM
All I know is if you lost 9 lbs in 7 days then plenty of that loss was water. You just got some water back. Does that still make a 7 lb loss total? If so, then you are doing fine. I don't believe that 48 hours is very productive for you. Most methods with Lean Gains and ESE are not over 24 hours. You shouldn't be having sugar while fasting, FYI.
Good luck.

TripSwitch
12-03-2012, 05:47 PM
Am I understanding your post correctly that you are fasting for 48 hours (just having a coffee with cream and sugar during that time) followed by one meal which you say is usually dinner and then fasting again for another 48 hours and then repeating this schedule?

Because if that's the case.... It doesn't sound sustainable and is not an effective use of IF'ing for weight loss...

And to address your last question... Yes it is possible to "gain" 2lbs. of water weight overnight....

Rikku
12-03-2012, 05:56 PM
All I know is if you lost 9 lbs in 7 days then plenty of that loss was water. You just got some water back. Does that still make a 7 lb loss total? If so, then you are doing fine. I don't believe that 48 hours is very productive for you. Most methods with Lean Gains and ESE are not over 24 hours. You shouldn't be having sugar while fasting, FYI.
Good luck.

I'm sorry but what do you mean it's not productive for me?



Trip, yes, that's what I have been doing.

mkroyer
12-03-2012, 06:01 PM
Im usually very much a "to each his own" kinda person, but i have to jump in on this... this is not a healthy, sustainable, efficient, or even successful method.. theres a lot wrong with what you are doing. Im sorry to be so blunt. I really dont mean to come across like im attacking.

Ok, so, doing ONE 48 hour fast, PER WEEK would make alittle more sense, although, even dong a weekly fast, its supposed to only be 24 hours. There is no reason, or benefit, to going 48 hours at a time. On TOP of that, you arent just gonig 48 hours, you are basically fasting every minute of every day, with the exception of one hour, EVERY 4 DAYS, where you eat? (48 fast, one meal, immediately into another 48 hours).
Most recent research is showing that IF is Not a good idea for women. (of course there are exceptions)...., but its been known for a long time that womens fasting windows should be shorter.. 12-14 hours vs 16 or 18 hours for men. not 48 hours. WOmen have different hormonal needs/responses, and the original data showing all the health benefits originally, were geared towards men. Women show a drop in sex hormones (big suprise) an increase in cortisol (water weight gain?) Completely out of whack leptin and ghrenlin responses, and the list goes on. (**Note, not ALL women, of course).
Im not going to tell someone not to intermittent fast, but i will tell someone not to starve themselves 98% of the time.

Plus to reap the full benefits of fasting you should not consume ANYTHING (coffee and sugar included)

Ok, i admit, this all came out very, very harsh.
Can you please explain what you think you are accomplishing by doing a 48 hour fast? And whats wrong with attempting to IF how it *should* be done? (1 or 2 24 hour fast per week or 16 hour fasting windows daily?)


And yes, you can absolutely gain 2 pounds of water in a day... I can gain 8. easily.
But if you arent counting your big meal, you could be offsetting your entire deficit, too

Rikku
12-03-2012, 06:13 PM
No worries. I know that it sounds pretty bad when I descibe what I'm doing, however, I have learned a LOT about how and why I eat. My clothes are loose on me and I have a lot of energy. I don't plan on doing this forever, but it's been a great kickstart to my goals. I now find it MUCH easier to eat better because I know when I am really hungry and when I just want to eat something that tastes good. I also have gained more self control and insight.

If it weren't beneficial at all, I don't think I would be seeing the weight loss? I know a lot of what I have lost is water, but I can't deny going down a size either.


Also, my meal isn't big. It's pretty moderate.

mkroyer
12-03-2012, 06:17 PM
Well, water does have volume too, ya know? ;) When im bloated and up 5 pounds from TOM< my clothes are tight, when i lose weighter weight, my cloths are loose!

Youve been doing this for a week? I cab GUARANTEE that this will back fire. BIG. HUGE. Set you up for binging issues/restricting cycles. It doesnt sound like you have issues with binging now, but this method will lead to it. No one had an eating disorder till they started overly restricting their food, first

Rikku
12-03-2012, 06:20 PM
Youve been doing this for a week? I cab GUARANTEE that this will back fire. BIG. HUGE. Set you up for binging issues/restricting cycles. It doesnt sound like you have issues with binging now, but this method will lead to it. No one had an eating disorder till they started overly restricting their food, first


Now THAT was pretty effing harsh.

How would you like it if I went to some other poor girl and told her, because I disagree with her diet, that the only reason she is fitting into smaller clothes is because she lost water, and that she's GURANTEED to start binging soon. I mean, comeon.

kaplods
12-03-2012, 06:22 PM
Am I understanding your post correctly that you are fasting for 48 hours (just having a coffee with cream and sugar during that time) followed by one meal which you say is usually dinner and then fasting again for another 48 hours and then repeating this schedule?

Because if that's the case.... It doesn't sound sustainable as an effective use of IF'ing for weight loss...


Eating only one meal every three days, if that is what you're doing, is more consistent with starvation/crash diets than true IF. The basic premise of IF is providing enough calories to sustain a reasonably active lifestyle with regular exercise. Normally crash diets (eventually, sometimes it takes several weeks to deplete energey reserves enough to notice) do not provide enough energy for regular exercise.

I've had a lot of experience with crash/starvation diets, and eating one meal in three days isn't going to sustain most people (unless the one meal is so humongous a meal that it's large enough to contain two to three days worth of calories).

I strongly believe that eating as you describe (if I understand it right and you're talking about 2,000 or fewer calories every three days - an average of 700 calories or less per day over the course of a week) is counterproductive in the long run. Unless it's PURE protein, you risk muscle loss (and with muscle loss you can't decide which muscle is lost, so it could be muscle from your calf, or it could be muscle from your heart).

I also believe that eating this way over the long term (probably years, maybe even decades) eventually erodes metabolism. The calorie level at which I could once lose several pounds a week easily upon, is now a calorie level that maintains my weight, and I suspect that a large part of that metabolic erosion (and the health problems such as Insulin Resistance and autoimmune disease including low thyroid function) is directly due to frequent use of the type of fasting you describe.

Some people report experiencing this metabolic decline very quickly (their weight loss slows DRAMATICALLY after the first few weeks) and their energy level likewise plummets and they find even normal tasks physically exhausting.

For me, the energy drain was much more dramatic than the metabolic decline AT FIRST.

I can't even manage one day of eating nothing without seeing my energy level plummet to the point that even remaining conscious is a Herculean effort. I suspect the decades of fasting as you describe has left me with less resilience than I had years ago.

If you're young, healthy, and don't have any form of IR, you often can go for longer periods without food than those of who are older, more active, or have other salient issues, but even so one meal in three days is extremely stressful on any body (even a young, healthy one) and the cons start overshadowing the pros very quickly. I'd highly recommend (at the very least) getting a full checkup and seeking medical supervision and nutritional counseling from your doctor (and ideally also a dietitian).



And to address your last question... Yes it is possible to "gain" 2lbs. of water weight overnight....

There's also the weight of food digesting in your digestive tract (not-yet pooped poop if you will). Every month I gain up to 10 lbs of non-fat weight with TOM/PMS. Usually it's around 5-8 lbs and in a few days (drinking a little extra water and eating even MORE fruits and vegetables) will get "things" (water and waste) moving and the weight disappears within 3 to 10 days, usually around 5-7.

kaplods
12-03-2012, 06:35 PM
Youve been doing this for a week? I cab GUARANTEE that this will back fire. BIG. HUGE. Set you up for binging issues/restricting cycles. It doesnt sound like you have issues with binging now, but this method will lead to it. No one had an eating disorder till they started overly restricting their food, first

Now THAT was pretty effing harsh.


It may be "effing harsh," but it's also probably "effing true." For those of us who've experienced the "effing" truth of it, we can be a little "effing" passionate about trying to spare others the "effing" pain and trauma of it.

To put it bluntly, eating the way you describe did more to get to me nearly 400 lbs than it ever did to help me lose. The first step to permanent success was giving up this kind of eating.

Miraculously, when I gave up this kind of eating, my ever increasing weight gain STOPPED in it's tracks. From the point I gave crash-diet-fasting even when I didn't diet at all my weight didn't inch further and further upward as it had since I was in KINDERGARTEN. All it took for me to stop gaining was giving up this kind of dieting (Gosh how I wish I had discovered this in first grade, I never would have been overweight at all).

Ironically it was encountering and embracing the Fat Acceptance Movement rhetoric that argued that dieting did more to cause weight gain than weight loss that convinced me to stop dieting (and for me dieting ALWAYS meant crash dieting as you describe - going for as long as I could without eating, eating as little as I could before going on to eating nothing until I just couldn't tolerate anotoher minute of it, and then I'd bine and regain).

Too bad I learned to diet this way at all. I wish I could have aat least learned to give up this kind of crash dieting when I weighed 150 or even 200 lbs, rather than discovering this miracle when I weighed almost 400 lbs. Even so though, I'm extremely grateful to have given it up when I did, and not when I'd reached 400 or even 500 lbs.

I've been "at this" weight loss business since I was in kindergarten, and I'm going to be 47 in a few months. I've been in countless weight loss programs, on countless weight loss sites and support groups, and I've both worked with eating disorder patients (due to my psych degree) and beein in eating disorder support groups myself, and I've never met a single person who felt this kind of eating did them anything but harm.

You might be the exception, but I doubt it. You can choose to benefit from the experience of others, or you can learn it the hard way yourself. At least be smart about it and do it under a doctor's supervision, because the way you're describing it, you could be setting yourself up for some serious physical harm. The most serious and significant risk is to your heart. This kind of eating can result in mitral valve prolapse and other cardiac damage.

GardenBurglar
12-03-2012, 06:45 PM
I really have to agree with mkroyer on this one. She said what she said because it is true and because it is hard to see someone engage in self-destructive behavior and not try to stop them. (For the record, I also agree with kaplods.) I've "dieted" like this before and I know many other people who have. It never ends well.

It may work for awhile, but sooner or later this type of behavior ALWAYS leads to binging. And then weight gain (which usually ends up leaving you heavier than you were than you started, but with less muscle mass). Plus, there is no way you are getting all of the nutrients you need. Just because you are losing weight now doesn't mean you will continue to or that what you are doing is healthy.

Do what you want, but I've been down this road over and over again and I would put money on you finding out that you don't like where you end up if you keep at it. They call it crash dieting for a reason. I would say for your own wellbeing to either do IF the real/healthy way or find a better, saner plan. Losing weight the healthy way (which is different for everyone) is not only way less painful, but will also be sustainable and leave you with lasting results.

Rikku
12-03-2012, 06:57 PM
I'm healthy, happy and despite what you might think, extremely intelligent. I've never EVER binged except maybe on an occasional holiday, but no more then the average person. You sure are saving me a whole lot of pain by talking down to me. Thank you. I'm so glad I stumbled upon such a supportive, caring group of people. Guess this is not the place for me.

TripSwitch
12-03-2012, 07:00 PM
Im usually very much a "to each his own" kinda person, but i have to jump in on this... this is not a healthy, sustainable, efficient, or even successful method.. theres a lot wrong with what you are doing. Im sorry to be so blunt. I really dont mean to come across like im attacking.

Ok, so, doing ONE 48 hour fast, PER WEEK would make alittle more sense, although, even dong a weekly fast, its supposed to only be 24 hours. There is no reason, or benefit, to going 48 hours at a time. On TOP of that, you arent just gonig 48 hours, you are basically fasting every minute of every day, with the exception of one hour, EVERY 4 DAYS, where you eat? (48 fast, one meal, immediately into another 48 hours).
Most recent research is showing that IF is Not a good idea for women. (of course there are exceptions)...., but its been known for a long time that womens fasting windows should be shorter.. 12-14 hours vs 16 or 18 hours for men. not 48 hours. WOmen have different hormonal needs/responses, and the original data showing all the health benefits originally, were geared towards men. Women show a drop in sex hormones (big suprise) an increase in cortisol (water weight gain?) Completely out of whack leptin and ghrenlin responses, and the list goes on. (**Note, not ALL women, of course).
Im not going to tell someone not to intermittent fast, but i will tell someone not to starve themselves 98% of the time.

Plus to reap the full benefits of fasting you should not consume ANYTHING (coffee and sugar included)

Ok, i admit, this all came out very, very harsh.
Can you please explain what you think you are accomplishing by doing a 48 hour fast? And whats wrong with attempting to IF how it *should* be done? (1 or 2 24 hour fast per week or 16 hour fasting windows daily?)


And yes, you can absolutely gain 2 pounds of water in a day... I can gain 8. easily.
But if you arent counting your big meal, you could be offsetting your entire deficit, too

Thank you for coming out and saying this....

And kaplods... Thank you for your very well thought out response on this as well...

GardenBurglar
12-03-2012, 07:17 PM
I'm healthy, happy and despite what you might think, extremely intelligent. I've never EVER binged except maybe on an occasional holiday, but no more then the average person. You sure are saving me a whole lot of pain by talking down to me. Thank you. I'm so glad I stumbled upon such a supportive, caring group of people. Guess this is not the place for me.

This place is very supportive and caring. You aren't being talked down to and intelligence has nothing to do with this. What people have said is out of concern.

Regardless of whether or not you have binged in the past, this type of restrictive eating CAUSES binges. And not little ones either. It caused huge, out of control binges. I wish I had known that when I was younger. I likely wouldn't still be dealing with all of this if I had.

You may be healthy and happy now, but the point is that you won't stay that way if you keep this up. I've put myself through it multiple times and would really rather not have other people go through what I went through.

You have been given excellent advise from good people who have been there. You aren't being picked on, I promise. Stick around.

kaplods
12-03-2012, 07:55 PM
I also don't see anyone talking down to you. People are just sharing their own experiences so that you can benefit from it (or not, your choice).

If you think you can find a more supportive environment, then look on other sites, maybe you'll find one that fits your needs better. Just don't mistake agreement for support.

I've I've visited a tremendous number of weight loss support sites, and I've found 3FC to be the most supportive. If you want agreement, then there are many pro-Ana and pro Mia sites (sites that promote anorexic and bulemic practices) that will agree with you and tell you exactly what you want to hear (though even then, some folks are going to disagree with you and will tell you that you're eating too much and should only be eating one meal every seven days). If you want true support, which includes not only "yeah, that's a great idea," or at least "Yeah, do whatever you want" support, but also "Lordy, that's a terrible idea, and here's why" disagreement, then you come here or to another GOOD weight loss site.

Even if you want only agreement, you can usually get it here, just by saying "I don't want to hear from anyone who disagrees with me." Just be honest about what you want, because people HERE are going to try to help, and they're going to say what they think will help, even if means saying what they believe you don't want to hear. So be honest with yourself and with the group. Do you want honest opinions, or do you only want ONLY agreement and encouragement, and don't want to hear from people who've had bad experiences with what you're doing?

Because on a GOOD support site, you're going to get both. And not everyone is going to be right, but you can bet that they're trying to help, even if they think it might sting a little to do so.

I'm the last person to resort to what many here call "tough love," but when I do, it can come off a little more than blunt. I don't mean to be hurtful, I've just lost patience, or found it impossible to be truthful without being more direct than my usual uber-caring, considerate "Have you considered this possibility" norm. Or sometimes people just hit a "sore spot" or a "hot-button topic" or one of my "passionate" beliefs. In this case it's the latter. I am so convinced that starvation diets CAUSE more obesity than they cure, that I'm not going to sugar coat my experiences (well, actually I guess I did. What I REALLY think is more harsh than what I've written).

No one here thinks you're stupid. Many of us have just been where you are, and we're sharing our experiences, and if they sound hurtful, it's a reflection of the pain we received in learning the lesson the hard way. We want to SAVE you from the trauma we experienced. And if you hear more horror stories than praise, it's because that's the truth of it. There's far more failure in what you're doing than success or you'd be hearing a lot of folks saying "Ignore these other idiots, I've lost weight and kept it off for years eating this way."

If you don't hear that, it's because those people don't exist. And if you hear from one person who says that and 99 people who disagree with what you're doing, it's because the failure rate for what you're doing is 99%. Either way, if you choose to, you can benefit from the experience of reading the positve and negative responses.


I have every confidence that you are extremely intelligent or I wouldn't have bothered replying at all. I don't waste my time on idiots. If I respond to a post, it's because I think the person IS quite intellligent, or I don't bother. I'm here to get help and to give help when I can. In my experience 99% of 3FC members are intelligent and willing to help. Every piece of advice isn't necessarily 100% correct or applicable to everyone, but we're trying.

If you look at the other sites, you will find some that only give "great job" replies even if the person is deciding that the best way to lose weight is with a chainsaw. You'll also find sites where folks are much blunter and meaner. I've found 3FC to be nicely in the middle. People are willing to help, but not at the expense of the truth as they see it.

You don't have to believe any of us, but do know that 99% of us are just trying to help, and possibly save you from some of the pain, heartache, and FAILURE that we've experienced.

Personally, I'm very science-based. All of my beliefs are based on medical research as filtered through my experience (I'm human so I do tend to "believe" the research that fits best with my experience, but I've also learned to re-evaluate my experience based on new science).

If you don't believe us, check out some of the research on these types of food plans. I didn't just decide that "it won't work for you, because it didn't work for me." I base my judgement on decades of formal science-based research (not trusting the book authors without going directly to the research article abstracts if not the actual research papers, as well as my own experience and that of all the people I've networked with over the years - researchers, professionals, doctors, dietitians, and people like me who've struggled with their weight).

If I knew ONE person who succeeded on a plan such as yours, I would have mentioned it. I've heard rumors of it working for a few men, but I've never met these men, and I've never heard of it succeeding for a woman. I've even seen many cases (including my own) in which it seemed to work tremendously, only to backfire explosively a few months or years down the road.

Crash dieting is ADDICTIVE for two very important reasons. One the "rush" of seeing the weight come off rapidly (or at least rapidly compared to more conservative methods), and secondly it releases addictive biochemicals.

One way in which crash dieting does this is by the actual damage that the diet is doing to your body. In response to this damage, the body releases endorphins. And at first, the endorphins outweigh the damage. The damage is so subtle (usually muscle being lost) you don't feel the pain of the damage, you only feel the rush of the endorphins. Much like a runner's high, the endorphins your body is using to address the damage is making you feel not just good, but "effing fantabulous."

When you feel that "fantabulous" it can be extremely difficult to hear "what you're doing is hurting you." You dismiss all criticisms, deciding that the critics don't know what they're talking about, or "they're just jealous or mean."

We're not. We've been there, and the crash is far, far worse than the endorphin high ever was... unfortunately the high is so great that it's very difficult to resist the temptation of experiencing that high again (Even though I firmly believe that crash diets are ineffective and virtually EVIL incarnate, I'm still tempted by them. I still remember and would love to achieve the drug-high of losing rapidly and getting those endorphins coursing through my body again). Even though I "know better" I will always be addicted to that high, and it would be so easy for me to get on that train-wreck of a rollercoaster again and again.

Crash diets are as addictive as heroine. You can bet that those of us who've been caught up in "chasing the dragon" are going to try to persuade others to avoid the trap of it.

You might be the exception. I wouldn't bet on it, but it's possible. You don't need to take offense at what we've said, or decide that what you're doing is wrong, but don't for a second think we're trying to hurt you. We want to help, and we see you going down a path we've gone down many times before with DISASTROUS consequences.

kelleyb
12-03-2012, 08:45 PM
When I said "productive for you" about the 48 hr fasts, I meant productive for general you. I just wonder where you have gotten your information. Many of the other posters have addressed why it is not productive. All of the IF I have read about recommend fasting for anywhere from 14 to 24 hours and never more. Just curious...

kaplods
12-03-2012, 09:08 PM
I also wanted to add that not only have many of us been where you are, we've been EXACTLY where you are, and that includes feeling defensive and sometimes even hurt and angry when anyone challenged our choices.

We too thought that the critics were being harsh, judgemental and just plain WRONG about the wisdom of our choices. We thought they were jealous, mean, close-minded, and worse...

... because (as I already touched on) crash diets seem like such a GREAT idea in the short-term. And the endorphins and rush of seeing the short-term success (at least initially) overshadow the down side... until they eventually don't.

I don't want to belabor a point, and I think I probably made this point in my previous post, but I did want to be clear that it's not out of any negativity that we're saying this. We really are trying to spare you the pain and failure we experienced.

I feel sad and ashamed when I think back on all the people who tried to help spare me this lesson. Some of them I don't even remember their names, but I'd love to be able to go back and tell them each and every one of them "you were right, and I wish I had listened, and I'm sorry I accused you of trying to hurt me. I realize now you really were only trying to spare me a painful lesson."

Of course, I don't have to go back and give that apology, because they all knew that already. I learned that the hard way too, when I apologized to some of my still-close friends and family who tried to share the lesson. When I apologized, virtually all of them said they understood because they'd been THERE too (and by there I mean accusing critics of being hurtful when they were only trying to help).

owlsteazombies
12-03-2012, 09:53 PM
IF is ok for some people. I'm not going to lecture you. I'm going to tell you about what I used to do.

I would "fast" for 3-5 days at a time when I was your weight in high school. That was great, I lost about 25 lbs. It was great until I passed out. It was great until it wasn't.

Please, for your sake, just eat healthy. Please.

kaplods
12-03-2012, 10:45 PM
IF is ok for some people. I'm not going to lecture you. I'm going to tell you about what I used to do.

I would "fast" for 3-5 days at a time when I was your weight in high school. That was great, I lost about 25 lbs. It was great until I passed out. It was great until it wasn't.

Please, for your sake, just eat healthy. Please.



Ugh, I forgot about the passing out. I wish I could say that I "learned my lesson" the first time it happened (also in high school), but I just got more skilled at "dancing around" the passing out. Taking some precautions against passing out like always carrying food in my purse that I never ate until I was just about to pass out, but even that didn't always work (I passed out IN a church confessional in college, because I thought whipping out my granola bar during confession would insult the priest. Instead I scared the crap out of him by passing out. I was so embarassed, I even lied about the cause to the priest because I didn't want to admit I hadn't eaten. It was a hot summer day, and I blamed the heat and "nervousness," but I wasn't nervous or hot, I was just starved).

It would be funny if it weren't so tragic.

Rikku
12-04-2012, 02:28 AM
Kaplod:

I'm just tired. I'm so very tired of this battle I've been fighting since I was 8 years old.. and I do not need some person (not you) telling me that they gurantee I am going to binge. How disrespectful. Have they no tact at all? Surely there is a better way to reach out to people.

While I appriciate Kaplod, your experiences, please try to remember that sometimes people can still get hurt behind these screens. Because yes, I struggle every day. I will take your words of experience and study into consideration, but it takes a lot for many people to open up, even to strangers.

Candeka
12-04-2012, 03:17 AM
Kaplod:

I'm just tired. I'm so very tired of this battle I've been fighting since I was 8 years old.. and I do not need some person (not you) telling me that they gurantee I am going to binge. How disrespectful. Have they no tact at all? Surely there is a better way to reach out to people.

While I appriciate Kaplod, your experiences, please try to remember that sometimes people can still get hurt behind these screens. Because yes, I struggle every day. I will take your words of experience and study into consideration, but it takes a lot for many people to open up, even to strangers.

Please do not leave this site because of what feels like a negative thread. There are many great people here. The same people you are disagreeing with at the moment could be the same people you are laughing with in a different thread on another topic (this is coming from personal experience lol!)

I think what everyone here is trying to say, in various ways, is that this is not something that is sustainable. It is counter-productive to support someone who is doing something you feel is going to actually hurt them in the long run. The goal of this site is to encourage people to lose the weight in a healthy sustainable manner and aid those who are having difficulties. It is hard to hear some of this things, especially if what you are doing is working, but they are only telling you the truth from both personal experience and research. No one ever wants someone to fail so if they are telling you something isn't going to work, its not to hurt your feelings but to help you in the weight loss battle!

I have been with this site for around a year and the people I see still visiting, still losing weight and still keeping on track are the people who have committed to a healthy weight loss program. The people we do not see anymore are the ones doing 700 calories a day, only drinking shakes.. things like that. If you stay with this site, you truly increase your chances with success.

Anyways, enough with that. As others have said, you can easily gain 2 pounds in water weight. If I have a high sodium day, I will be roughly 3 pounds heavier the next day with a huge bloated belly (I go from not looking pregnant to looking 3 months pregnant.. its nuts!)

There is an huge Intermittent Fasting area on this site that provides many great details. I know several people who have had huge success with it. However, I know these people follow the small eating time bracket each day as opposed to not eating at all for several days. I think they always eat all of their calories (1200-1800) within a 2-4 hour time frame every day.

EricAnn
12-04-2012, 04:07 AM
Why has JohnP not said anything in this thread? I feel like this is his area of "expertise"!

kaplods
12-04-2012, 05:15 AM
Kaplod:

I'm just tired. I'm so very tired of this battle I've been fighting since I was 8 years old.. and I do not need some person (not you) telling me that they gurantee I am going to binge. How disrespectful. Have they no tact at all? Surely there is a better way to reach out to people.

While I appriciate Kaplod, your experiences, please try to remember that sometimes people can still get hurt behind these screens. Because yes, I struggle every day. I will take your words of experience and study into consideration, but it takes a lot for many people to open up, even to strangers.


Believe me, I understand the struggle and the difficulties. We all do, because we've been there, and sometimes we don't use the best words, because we don't know what they are, and even if we did we wouldn't always use them, because we're human.

Some people are going to come across as whiny, angry, bossy, arrogant, judgemental, lazy, excuse-making... you name it, you're going to see it on this board and all the rest. Tact isn't everyone's best suit, and sometimes "tough love" really is what someone NEEDS to hear (maybe you're not that person, but it doesn't change the fact that no one here can guess what you need - you're going to find the same on all the boards).

If you're not strong enough to have a VERY thick skin when asking questions of strangers, then you may not be ready to be here. I'm trying to be gentle with this, but there's no way to say gently that if you care much about what strangers think of you, this is not the place to be (nor is the internet in general).

This is a public forum, and you're going to get every kind of response, and people are going to usually respond in the way THEY'VE found most helpful.

Personally, I don't find "tough love" very supportive, but I'm not hurt by seeing it, because I've been told by many here that it was the blunt, no-nonsense, and even tough and angry posts that got their attention and their motivation fired up. They may be giving you what THEY needed when they were in your spot. You can't fault folks for doing what worked for them.

So if you're not strong enough to face ANYTHING that someone might say, you might want to shore up that strength. I can't guarantee that you'll never be hurt by a comment people make here (or anywhere) - because there is never a guarantee of that whenever honest opinions are involved. Sometimes the truth hurts.

You need to be prepared for that here and on any weight loss site, because not everyone is going to agree with you and some people are going to believe that the path you've chosen is doomed to failure. I am one of those people, and while I don't want to hurt you emotionally, if it means you take me seriously I'm willing to hurt you emotionally to save you physically if I can - because I've destroyed my health and I know people who have died doing what you're doing. If my post helps you stop before you jeopardize your life and your health, I'll gladly accept the blame for your feelings being hurt.

I understand your desperation, and know where it comes from. I've been battling my weight and severe morbid obesity since KINDERGARTEN - that's more than 41 YEARS, and by the time I was 13, I was so tired of fighting the battle, so frustrated and desperate that even though I knew even then that it wasn't a "good" way to lose the weight, my mother and I (for she was as desperate about my weight as I was) agreed to amphetemine diet bills - in 8th grade! (I'd already been on dozens and dozens of crash diets by then).

Even when I KNEW for sure that the crash dieting was a recipe for failure - knowing that I ALWAYS gained more than I lost (and by always I mean HUNDREDS of attempts at crash dieting) - even though I knew that the ultimate price would probably be MORE weight gain - I still had to "take a chance" on the crash diet, because I didn't think slow, and sensible would or even COULD work for me. I was so wrong, but I didn't have the patience to give it a sustained effort. I was too panicked.

It's like those people who burn to death in a fire, because they're pushing against a door that opens inward. Every instinct says "push, and push harder" and they don't think to pull.

"Slow and gradual," was the one method I never could stick with, because I'd get too impatient and panicky about getting the weight off. I wanted it off yesterday (if I could survive the chain-saw method, I would have tried it).

I could take any pain or torture in the short term, if rapid weight loss was the potential reward. Every hair-brained scheme and stupid way to diet - I've done it - more than once, and more than a dozen time each in most cases (sometimes hundreds of times choosing the same path that failed the prior hundreds).

It's hard to believe that crash dieting isn't the best way to lose weight, because it IS the fastest. It's also the hardest to sustain. It's also so dangerous that no one should undertake it without a medical supervision (and yet almost everyone who does it, doesn't take that step. They don't even get a normal checkup first). And because of that, many people die or are seriously injured every year by crash dieting - from heart damage and cardiac arrest, hyponatremia, gallbladder issues, nd other illnesses and horrible side effects (hair loss isn't dangerous, but it sure is embarassing).

If crash dieting worked in even a small, but significant minority, you would be hearing that. You will find a few cases if you search hard enough, but for every success story, you'll hear thousands of failure stories, so which do you think is more likely?

This would be so easy to say if I were just trying to hurt you. I'd call you some nasty names (probably get kicked off of this site), insult your heritage or intelligence and that would be the end of it. Telling someone something they don't want to hear is gut-wrenching, especially when you suspect it's information that could save their life. I know where I'd be if I'd continued with the crash dieting, 200 lbs heavier or dead (and dead is probably more likely, because I was inches away from it, and even diagnosed with a terminal illness before I was willing to really go out on a limb and try the last thing on earth I wanted to try - healthy, sensible, slow weight loss).

Thank God I did, or I would STILL be fighting the hopeless battle, because biochemistry (especially neurochemistry) tries to prevent us from choosing starvation. It's much like holding you're breath. You can do it for a long time, but eventually your hindbrain forces you do what you don't want to do. You probably won't pass out and eat while unconscious, although people on starvation diets have sleepwalked to the kitchen and binged during their sleep only to find the wrappers in the morning. It's virtually impossible to fight biochemistry on this, and that's why the failure rate is so high.

I wish you the best really, but I'm not willing to do any more than I've done. It's too painful for me to watch someone self-destruct and refuse to see it (or at least acknowledge that there could be a problem). Lashing out at people trying to help is normal, and I can accept that, but I can't help where the help isn't wanted. You have every right to make any decision you want. I do suspect though that some day, maybe in a few years, you'll be exactly where I and other posters are - trying to deter someone from making this mistake out of fear and desperation. We all literally have been there, and most of us realize we have no idea how to stop it, so we try anything we can think of - even rudeness and meanness to "shake" sense into someone (I personally don't understand how or why that works, but I've seen it work, so I can't be too judgemental of it).

I've hurt myself trying to help others, and that's something I'm not willing to do, so this will probably be my last post in this thread. I wish you the best, really and hope you find a sustainable path that doesn't harm your mental or physical health. If you want to do this, at least do it right and get the medical supervision that can catch the deadliest of side effects before they become fatal.

sontaikle
12-04-2012, 06:16 AM
Kaplod:

I'm just tired. I'm so very tired of this battle I've been fighting since I was 8 years old.. and I do not need some person (not you) telling me that they gurantee I am going to binge. How disrespectful. Have they no tact at all? Surely there is a better way to reach out to people.

While I appriciate Kaplod, your experiences, please try to remember that sometimes people can still get hurt behind these screens. Because yes, I struggle every day. I will take your words of experience and study into consideration, but it takes a lot for many people to open up, even to strangers.

You don't think everyone else understands what you're going through? A lot of us have been there or are there now. I understand too!

I know the feeling of desperation; I know the feeling of being overweight since childhood and just not knowing what to do to finally be thin. I remember being a kid and just wishing I could be thin like all of the other girls and the pain I went through growing up. Trust me, I know and we all understand.

However, everyone here is just trying to help you. They've been there. They've done unhealthy things out of desperation and they're just trying to stop someone else from doing the same. Nobody here has been disrespectful—on the contrary they've been quite caring! They don't want anything horrible to happen to you and they barely know you at all—that's caring!

I know it hurts because you want to believe that this works, but know that you'll just be doing more harm than good. Your plan not only isn't sustainable, it's bad for your health (both mentally and physically).

Trust me, we all struggle. I've been maintaining for nearly a year and I still struggle. It's a lifelong journey down a difficult path, but everyone here is willing and able to help.

AnnRue
12-04-2012, 07:33 AM
Rikku-
Don't listen to them. I also struggled and every time I went close to eating the way I needed to for my body I was scared off by the "eat more / eat healthy" crew. Even though I knew it was wrong for me.

Finally after 20 wasted years I stopped listening, signed up for a medically supervised -- low calorie - plan and lost all the weight -- finally.

To this day, if I post that here I will get all kinds of scare tactics that are not true. People say "oh you lost heart muscle" um, no, sorry, had that checked. I mean how disrespectful (or in denial) to say something like that to someone who paid for a medical plan? I mean I actually paid to ensure nothing was wrong with my body and now have proof that nothing went wrong and STILL people post that something must be wrong with my body.
People will say eating X way is not good for you, even when I present them with the facts that my blood tests never moved. (except for improvements)

I wasted 20 years listening to armchair experts online. Thank god I finally stopped listening -- and although I am sure this post won't go over well - I hope people at least see the alternate view.

nads84
12-04-2012, 08:43 AM
...I am a (daily) lurker on this site and I check out many threads and groups and it seems that 99% of the threads are people who are either trying to lose or maintain their weight and are supporting each other by providing each other advice gained through their personal experience, much like in this thread. I decided to pipe up because I have a tremendous amount of respect for these ladies who have given you some solid advice. They are not judging you or disrespecting you. Far from. Like sontaikle says they care: they care enough to take the time to share with you.

A good book on IF is Stop-Eat-Stop. I can appreciate that right now you're doing everything you can to drop as quickly as you can. You may be getting great results now (by the way how long have you been at this?), however in the long term, your body will fight back, and yes, it can very well mean through bingeing. ....**** I don't fast more than 16-18 hours maybe once a week and restrict calories by 3 - 400 cals/day and I have periodic 'mini binges'. I've been maintaining within 5lbs for 2 years and go for periods where I'm trying to diet down to lose the last ten pounds and because of how hard I train my body has a hard time dealing with any kind of deficit it seems (that I love food too much!!).

In any case...stick around. These ladies know what it takes to be successful. Not just for now, but for the long-term. You need to keep in mind that you need to find a way to lose weight that you can do forever, because maintenance is not much different that weight loss. ****, it can be even more challenging. So think LIFE LONG and think healthy.

kaplods
12-04-2012, 09:00 AM
Rikku-
Don't listen to them. I also struggled and every time I went close to eating the way I needed to for my body I was scared off by the "eat more / eat healthy" crew. Even though I knew it was wrong for me.

Finally after 20 wasted years I stopped listening, signed up for a medically supervised -- low calorie - plan and lost all the weight -- finally.

To this day, if I post that here I will get all kinds of scare tactics that are not true. People say "oh you lost heart muscle" um, no, sorry, had that checked. I mean how disrespectful (or in denial) to say something like that to someone who paid for a medical plan? I mean I actually paid to ensure nothing was wrong with my body and now have proof that nothing went wrong and STILL people post that something must be wrong with my body.
People will say eating X way is not good for you, even when I present them with the facts that my blood tests never moved. (except for improvements)

I wasted 20 years listening to armchair experts online. Thank god I finally stopped listening -- and although I am sure this post won't go over well - I hope people at least see the alternate view.


Really? You ate only one meal every three days, and your doctor was ok with that?

Have you been listening to what we've said? I don't think anyone here argued against a medically supervised low-calorie diet. I know what I've said, and I said if OP was going to do any sort of vlcd, that she needed to be medically supervised, and that she should get her doctor (and ideally a dietitian) involved.

That's what you did, so why is it bad advice for her?

You say that you had medical supervision and periodically got blood work to PROVE that you were doing ok. Well that's fantastic - you did it the right way. I only want the same for OP.

Its all I've asked OP to do - to not to choose a path so drastic WITHOUT medical supervision.

There's nothing wrong with following a "medically supervised -- low calorie - plan," but that's not what OP is talking about. She's talking about eating one meal every three days - and we don't know whether that meal is high enough in calories or protein to sustain her without side effects - that's what a doctor will help her determine.

Medically supervised programs like Optifast, Medifast, Ideal Protein, HR and other medically supervised programs have been designed to minimize the risks, especially of cardiac damage. They do this with high-protein, low calorie (but not fat free) diets. Fat free low-carbing can be dangerous (resulting in what's been called protein poisoning or rabbit starvation - which can cause all sorts of unpleasant symptoms. It's usually only fatal if a person ignores the horrible symptoms - or has no choice but to as on the "wagon trains" 150 years ago.

Besides which no one told her that she IS losing heart muscle, just that it CAN happen (and it can even happen on medically supervised plans). Will it happen to everyone, or even most folks? Of course, not but even in russian roulette your odds of "winning" are better than losing, but would you recommend the game to anyone? "Hey, you'll probably survive," doesn't sound like the best plan to me.

Ideal Protein, Medifast, Optifast, HMR and the others have their risks, and sometimes the risks are worth it. Not everyone will have serious complications, but the people who HAVE experienced them are on this site too.

On this or any controversial issue, a person needs and should want to hear all sides before making such an important decision, and I'm very glad you posted in for the opposing viewpoint, but why not give OP the whole story? Why not push for the medical supervision that you so wisely chose?

There's a huge difference between eating one meal every three days and a medically supervised plan, designed to prevent the worst side effects and monitoring the vitals along the way so that problems can be detected and treated early.

VLCD's can work. I'm following a PSMD right now myself (protein sparing modified fast), but my doctor is closely supervising. I have an appointment Thursday for a blood draw and an appointment with the doctor in about a week. We got a call today that we have to reschedule the appointment because the doctor is going out of town, and I'm going to call the nurse tomorrow and ask her if it's all right for me to wait to see the doctor until January because we're going out of town the following week. I'll remind her of the diet I'm on and ask her if I should reschedule the blood tests too, or if I should get them this week anyway.

That however is not eating one meal of my own choosing (which may or may not be high enough in protein and other nutrients) every three days. While it's not explicitly stated, I think the assumption of ALL the posters has been that a doctor is not involved and has not been informed or consulted regarding that one meal every three days. And I even suspect that none of us were talking about being under medical supervision when we experienced the terrible side effects we did.

I didn't pass out or get a worn-out metabolism from one medically supervised vlcd. I passed out the first time under doctor supervision (and on the amphetemine) by ignoring the doctor's advice. I figured if 900 to 1100 calories was good, then 500 was better. My metabolism didn't plummet after one crash diet, but gradually eroded over time and dozens of crash diets (and by crash diets I mean diets well under the 800 calorie level (the lowest calorie plan a doctor EVER approved for me was 800 calories - and even then it was the low-end of a range, not a maximum).

Medical supervision really shouldn't be considered an "optional" part of the process. Oh you might get by with it, but you might not. Of the people I've met (including myself) who had the most severe side effects, most did not have that medical supervision (or had chosen to ignore the advice of their doctors).

Following a medically-supervised very-low-calorie diet is a legitimate and viable option. Not the right option for everyone and some people are going to opposed to them anyway (In hindsight, I'm not sure that I approve of my doctor prescribing amphetemines to a 13 year old, but at least I did have the medical supervision - so close that I went to the doctor every week for the first two months, and every month thereafter).

And that's all I'm asking OP to do: See a doctor, get a checkup and talk to the doctor about what she's currently doing and get information on medically supervised weight loss plans. See if her insurance and/or your budget can afford a dietitian and ask the doctor for a referral. If a vlcd is the right way to go, that's great - but get it done right and do it medically supervised.

I still however highly doubt that the doctor or a dietitian is going to advise eating one meal every three days, and if they DO - it's going to be a very specially designed meal. Not "eat whatever you want," not "eat as little as possible," it's going to be a meal carefully designed to be adequate in protein, electrolytes and other nutrients that will give the OP the best chances of success with the fewest
unpleasant side effects.

VLCD's with close medical supervision can work (especially if they're done successfully in as few attempts as possible. If a person has made repeated attempts at medically supervised plans, and it's only resulted in more weight gain - then maybe a vlcd isn't right for that person. However, it doesn't mean that a more drastic VLCD WITHOUT medical supervision would be a good idea.

Wannabeskinny
12-04-2012, 09:14 AM
Rikku-
Don't listen to them. I also struggled and every time I went close to eating the way I needed to for my body I was scared off by the "eat more / eat healthy" crew. Even though I knew it was wrong for me.

Finally after 20 wasted years I stopped listening, signed up for a medically supervised -- low calorie - plan and lost all the weight -- finally.

To this day, if I post that here I will get all kinds of scare tactics that are not true. People say "oh you lost heart muscle" um, no, sorry, had that checked. I mean how disrespectful (or in denial) to say something like that to someone who paid for a medical plan? I mean I actually paid to ensure nothing was wrong with my body and now have proof that nothing went wrong and STILL people post that something must be wrong with my body.
People will say eating X way is not good for you, even when I present them with the facts that my blood tests never moved. (except for improvements)

I wasted 20 years listening to armchair experts online. Thank god I finally stopped listening -- and although I am sure this post won't go over well - I hope people at least see the alternate view.

A medically supervised plan is much much different than starvation. The OP has given no indication of this being a plan that was suggested to her by a doctor. Following a plan like yours requires that one has faith in the medical professionals. I do not unfortunately, I have seen and experienced the harm that doctors cause. I am not an "armchair expert" on any topic other than being fat, being a binger, and being scared for my health and future. I can't even identify with what some bingers say which is "bingeing is triggered by dieting" which was not true for me.

OP you've made a few contradicting statements such as "I'm a very happy person" and "I'm so tired, I struggle every day" or "I've never binged" and then "I've learned self-control" and a few naive statements like "If it weren't beneficial at all, I don't think I would be seeing the weight loss" because who hasn't experienced immediate and dramatic results only to gain the weight back in a hot second and then some? Sometimes people learn the hard way and I think it's safe to say that you may not have much experience yet with these type of crash diets and how harmful they can be. I'm willing to accept that some people have to learn the hard way but come back and talk to us after this diet and we'll be here to support you no matter what the outcome. I'll be honest and way that the thought of going 2 days without eating sounds really frightening to me but I'm a mother of a toddler and I can't afford to be mucking around with my health like that, godforbid I don't have the strength to lift him or pass out in the middle of the day. Just please be careful and try to keep a protein bar or some nuts in your purse just in case.

GardenBurglar
12-04-2012, 09:41 AM
Not dieting the healthy way almost cost me my life. Truly, I came very close to dying because of it. It made me a nonfunctional human being for a very long time, took years away from me that I will never get back, put me into debt because of medical bills, and left my body permanently damaged. It caused me to become both severely underweight and severely overweight, never healthy. I never thought what I was doing would cause any of that, but restrictive dieting can quickly turn into an addiction and an obsession.

I, and many others, would say just about anything to keep another person from going down that path. I don't see what is disrespectful about that.

Also, binging is a biological response to being underfed, not a sign of weakness or some sort of character defect. And it is not even close to the worst thing a restrictive diet can cause.

The bottom line is, if you want to be on a very low calorie diet regardless of the low long-term success rate, fine, but please do so only under medical supervision. And please be aware that these sorts of warnings come from a place of caring and respect, otherwise we wouldn't bother.

JohnP
12-04-2012, 11:40 AM
Rikku you mentioned you did a lot of research on fasting. Can you post a link to where you learned about this plan you're following? I've never heard of it and I"m curious to read what you did.

In my opinion occcasionally fasting for 48 hours is fine and won't do any damage. Doing it all the time, unsupervised, might be ok. But it might not. Are you taking any medications? Did you talk to your doctor before starting this?

As for how sustainable it is - or if it will lead to binging - I think is highly dependant on the OP. It seems very unlikely that it is sustainable but ... I really don't know.

I'm the "resident expert" on intermittent fasting only because i've read about it daily for two years. Since I've never read about what the OP is doing - I've got no clue what the hormonal consequences are from a physiological perspective. I doubt they are good.

Plenty of muscle will be lost but ... maybe the OP doesn't care. Other than that I just say :?::?::?:

mkroyer
12-04-2012, 11:48 AM
[QUOTE=Rikku;4547053]Kaplod:

I'm just tired. I'm so very tired of this battle I've been fighting since I was 8 years old.. and I do not need some person (not you) telling me that they gurantee I am going to binge. How disrespectful. Have they no tact at all? Surely there is a better way to reach out to people.

QUOTE]

There are plenty of people here who will sugar coat everything for you.
Raise your hand if you never had a problem with binging, but now binge because of some overly -restrictive diet sometime in the past..
(Raises hand)

I NEVER had these types of issues. Till i went on a very lo cal program. and i was eating a heck of a lot more than you.. dieted my way all the way down to 12% body fat, then binged/restricted my way back up all the way to 30% body fat.

And i am not a special snowflake in this regard. Your body will fight back, no matter how much willpower, discipline and self-control you have.


Of course, you may have hit the genetic lottery. You may be the 1 in 100,000 that will coast through something like this with no negative consequences.

And lets say you DID hit the genetic jackpot..... and you dont develop a binge eating disorder.... within a VERY short time period youre body is going to metabolically adaptly, harshly, efficiently and quickly. You wont be losing weight anymore. Youre body will maintain on one meal every 4 days......
I taught my body to maintain and operate, training for and running marathons on 1200 cals a day. This happend in the span of 3-4 months of a low cal diet. How did my body do this? fat loss stopped, completely. My reproduction shut down. my hair and nails stopped growing. My core temp dropped, my ambient heart rate dropped. I went into pre menopause at 30 years old

I understand wanting to get the weight off as soon as possible. But you also have to understand the idea of shooting yourself in the foot.
No amount of will power will prevent the binge from occuring, eventually, given that food is readily avaialble. It is a SURVIVAL instinct. It is subconcious. You may even find yourself binging in the middle of the night, half asleep, and wake to find food wrappers and crumbs litering your bed. your body will do what it has to do to survive.. End of story. And im sorry that the harsh reality is binge behavior.

Do you want me to say that this is a good idea? You would have a heck of a lot better luck, and prob a faster rate of fatloss, over time, if you did the 1 or 2 24 hour fasts/ week, and kept a moderate calorie deficit the rest of the time. That alone would yeild you your 2+ pounds of fatloss a week... coating to goal

At the rate you are going, you will see a large drop in scale weight fast, and then a halt (which you are already experiencing?) possibly a gain, as your body fights back... Eventually some fat loss (muscle loss?) will occur, but youll keep backsliding by subconciously eating more at your one big meal, or binging in the middle of the night, or binging all day long for that matter.
Thats the harsh reality of this way of eating. And if you dont believe me, theres hundreds on this site along that restricted and binged there way up to heavier than when they started. that never had food issues growing up. Almost any ED story will contain this component.
And theres quite a lot of famous female fitness models/trainers who write about how IFing ruined their lives and caused massive binging/restriction problems ( and they were doing IF the *right* way)

Dont get your feelings hurt, but you need to do more research on this. Lead with your mind, not your heart.

http://breakingmuscle.com/nutrition/train-man-eat-woman

this article is completely anectotal, but does have links to studies.. it is however. WORTH YOUR TIME to read. Keep in mind while reading, these women were doing IF as prescribed

kaplods
12-04-2012, 12:18 PM
Dont get your feelings hurt, but you need to do more research on this. Lead with your mind, not your heart.

http://breakingmuscle.com/nutrition/train-man-eat-woman

this article is completely anectotal, but does have links to studies.. it is however. WORTH YOUR TIME to read. Keep in mind while reading, these women were doing IF as prescribed



This was a very interesting read, and gave me some things to think about with my own experiments with IF.

Initially, I thought I couldn't do IF at all, because of my blood sugar issues (I'm IR/borderline diabetic).

Going more than a few hours without eating usually results in lightheadedness, dizziness, nausea, vertigo and SEVERE mood swings.


I don't do "miserable" weight loss anymore, so I eat before or as soon as I notice any weird feelings.

However, I did find that the more lowish-carb/paleo I ate, the longer I could postpone my first meal of the day without unpleasant consequences, but at the first sign of symptoms, I would eat (or hubby would beg me to eat because he was suffering from my moodswings even if I wasn't).

I've definitely found some of what the author says to be quite true of me, and I do wonder whether there are long term consequences of IF.

Over the past several months, and especially since starting IF, I've been experiencing an every-increasing number of menopausal symptoms. Since I'm 47, I just assumed that it was normal for my age and completely unrelated to the IF. Maybe I'll give up the IF for a couple months to see if they disappear.

I don't know that I want to prevent or delay natural menopause, but I'd rather not be helping it along. I've been more than a bit troubled by the increasing amount of hair appearing on my upper lip and chin and disappearing from my hairline and eyebrows.

It will be interesting to see if giving up IF affects the hair growth patterns.

GardenBurglar
12-04-2012, 12:48 PM
http://breakingmuscle.com/nutrition/train-man-eat-woman

this article is completely anectotal, but does have links to studies.. it is however. WORTH YOUR TIME to read. Keep in mind while reading, these women were doing IF as prescribed

What a great article, even if it is anecdotal. I've been seeing a lot lately about IF not being so great for women, though of course (just like with everything else) there are exceptions.

mkroyer
12-04-2012, 01:56 PM
Oh, absolutely there are exceptions...to everything, right? But its kinda scary when you think you are following a highly reasearced and supported way of living, and then to have it completely backfire in such unexpected ways...
i knew pretty immeditely that IF was not for me... while i enjoyed the freedom of not thinking about food so often, and then being able to actually eat what i wanted when i did eat, i found that i was in a CONSTANT state of bloatedness....
I would dehydrate and lose water weight, and then my body would swing way far in the other direction after eating a huge meal, and it was wreaking havoc on my digestive system.

Thats something everyone needs to keep in mind.

first and foremost, the body wants, and will do what is has to do, to achieve homeostasis, and IFing through my body for a homeostasis loop... Sever water and glycogen retention due to the restriction. Outta whack eloctrolytes, outta whack hunger cues and hormone responses.. its a convoluted downward spiral.

Id be willing to bet the OPs 2 pound water gain is a result of electrolyte imbalance and water retention from glycogen overload.. and its gong to get worse, imo

sontaikle
12-04-2012, 02:16 PM
I've heard so much about IF not being that great for women, and I found it to be true in myself. It just DIDN'T work for me at all, and I actually prefer smaller meals throughout the day. Not because that's one of the things that you hear about "keeping up your metabolism" but because I found it true when it came to my hunger patterns.

It's been working for me thus far, so I'm going to keep doing it.

JohnP
12-04-2012, 02:23 PM
I've met plenty of men and women that found intermittent fasting did not work for them but the article linked is not a good one in my opinion. The reason I say that is there is literally no detail on anything about what they were doing. None. Also - the idea that IF will drive someone to become a caffeine addict was strange.

Generally speaking the people I've found that don't do well on intermittent fasting are those people who are really into "clean" eating because it's difficult to get in the number of calories they require in a day.

GardenBurglar
12-04-2012, 02:26 PM
I know, I feel like the only thing I can confidently advise people to do across the board is eat a lot of vegetables. Maybe lifting some weights too, but even that isn't a good fit for everyone.

We aren't even close to understanding how our bodies work, especially when it comes to weight management. We all react so differently to different things. All we can do is load up on info and painstakingly find out what works through trial and error (with a good dose of patience and self-love).

JohnP
12-04-2012, 02:35 PM
I actually prefer smaller meals throughout the day. Not because that's one of the things that you hear about "keeping up your metabolism" but because I found it true when it came to my hunger patterns.

My wife is the same way. She prefers to "graze" and never eats a lot.

It's frustrating for new people because they generally just want someone to tell them what to do but ultimately there are different ways to eat that fit better with one person or another. So figuring out what works best for you is really the key to long term maintinence.

mkroyer
12-04-2012, 03:04 PM
the idea that IF will drive someone to become a caffeine addict was strange.

.
i know! that make me snort when i read it! It was more the overall tone of the article... purely anecdotal, but some very interesting and noteworthy experiences from well respected women.

JohnP
12-04-2012, 03:41 PM
i know! that make me snort when i read it! It was more the overall tone of the article... purely anecdotal, but some very interesting and noteworthy experiences from well respected women.

Yea - but if they were following a 14/10 eating pattern it's hard to imagine a lot of the things they're talking about happening. On the other hand - one mentioned the warrior diet which is more of a 22/2 pattern.

Still - I'm glad you linked it and I'm glad I read it.:D

kaplods
12-04-2012, 05:32 PM
I've met plenty of men and women that found intermittent fasting did not work for them but the article linked is not a good one in my opinion. The reason I say that is there is literally no detail on anything about what they were doing. None. Also - the idea that IF will drive someone to become a caffeine addict was strange.


I agree that the article is weak on fact, implying that the author is referring to research, but not really citing or describing any research.

However, even so it piqued my curiosity in looking for the research she appears to be referring to.

However, it was actually the "weird" bits that intrigued me the most, because they so jived with my experience (could be a strange coincidence).

My caffeine use fluctuates, but when I started IF I was in a low-cycle. At most I'ld have one caffeinated diet soda per day, often not even that.

Then when I started experimenting with IF, I found myself using more and more cafeine (even beyond what is my normal "max"). I started making hot and cold tea for myself (unusual, but not "whacko" for me), but I was even craving and considering COFFEE (which anyone who knows me, knows I DETEST THE STUFF with a crazy passion, always have and always will).





Generally speaking the people I've found that don't do well on intermittent fasting are those people who are really into "clean" eating because it's difficult to get in the number of calories they require in a day.


This I think has been sort of true for me. My eating isn't always super clean, but my first meal of the day always has been, for just about as long as I can remember. If I'm only eating one meal a day, it's going to be pretty clean, just out of habit. Which either means widening the "window" or learning to eat heavier for that one meal.

It's been a learning experience as to what kind of meal is appropriate if it's going to be the only meal of the day.

I keep experimenting with different types, sizes, and frequencies of meals, and to be honest, I'm not sure yet which works best for me (or even if there is a single best).

Some of it depends on when and how I'm going to exercise. If I'm going to go to the gym, I have to eat before I get there. If I go to the gym on an empty stomach, it's a recipe for passing out.

It's all still a work-in-progress.

lulubelly
12-04-2012, 05:40 PM
Please don't leave the forum people are just trying to help...its called constructive criticism. Alot of people here have experience you should thank them for their comments and learn from them....good luck with your goal!:hug:

Rikku
12-05-2012, 04:24 PM
Thank you everyone for your concern. It's been a rough couple of weeks.. I ate yesterday and today and I'm about a pound more then when I posted this. So overall, about 6 pounds down in a week of IF, and that's something I could have done low carbing. Plus, when I'm low carbing, I feel so much better. Amazing even. So I guess the inital 9 pounds I lost was about 3 pounds of water weight. But, I guess I had to learn the hard way. Everytime I eat now, my stomach cramps up about 20 minutes later and hurts really bad. I hope I didn't hurt myself.. The scary thing is, if I were still losing weight doing this, I KNOW I would still be eating like that.

I still don't agree with the approach of one of you, but I understand the intent. Thank you. Me and my cramped up little stomach are gonna run to the bathroom now. :(

owlsteazombies
12-05-2012, 04:29 PM
Thank you everyone for your concern. It's been a rough couple of weeks.. I ate yesterday and today and I'm about a pound more then when I posted this. So overall, about 6 pounds down in a week of IF, and that's something I could have done low carbing. Plus, when I'm low carbing, I feel so much better. Amazing even. So I guess the inital 9 pounds I lost was about 3 pounds of water weight. But, I guess I had to learn the hard way. Everytime I eat now, my stomach cramps up about 20 minutes later and hurts really bad. I hope I didn't hurt myself.. The scary thing is, if I were still losing weight doing this, I KNOW I would still be eating like that.

I still don't agree with the approach of one of you, but I understand the intent. Thank you. Me and my cramped up little stomach are gonna run to the bathroom now. :(

Start off slow. Eat bland foods like liquid jello, broth and plain toast. Slowly add in chicken and vegetables. You can't rush into meals after doing that :)

Rikku
12-05-2012, 04:48 PM
Start off slow. Eat bland foods like liquid jello, broth and plain toast. Slowly add in chicken and vegetables. You can't rush into meals after doing that :)

Too late! haha.. I didn't eat a lot at all, but it's not gentle food. I'm still below 1500 cals in a day.

You know what I find strange? I just STOPPED losing weight doing this after about 5 days or so. It came off fast, but then it just stopped. I didn't change anything, and I even ate a smaller meal when I did eat. But I haven't gained it back, with the exception of a few pounds, but that could also be because I have been eating heavier food.

owlsteazombies
12-05-2012, 04:50 PM
food volume definately does a lot. So does saltier food. Lets say you did 1500 calories in potatoes, steak and broccoli. You might gain a lb because of the potatoes and steak.

but lets say you did 1500 calories in leafy greens, that might not show as a gain.

1500 calories in junk food, because of the salt, would show a gain.

Make sense? :) All calories are not created equal and the answer to everything is 42.

kelleyb
12-05-2012, 05:14 PM
Rikku- I don't think you should necessarily give up "IF" after a one week trial of eating one meal every 2 (or 3?) days b/c that is not the way it is supposed to be used in the first place. If you would like to research it, you will find a lot of helpful info. You could start with a 14 hour fast and a 10 hr feed everyday while watching your calories. No matter what weight loss method you choose, you can't lose 1-2 lbs a day indefinitely- weight loss will slow down.

All the best to you. Hope you feel better soon.

Rikku
12-05-2012, 05:20 PM
I suppose you're right. I guess I just *really* am ready to get out there and feel good both inside and out. I am growing incredibly impatient! I may still do a few small fasts during the week along with low carb. Do you think that would speed it up a little?

sontaikle
12-05-2012, 06:00 PM
Glad to hear you're sticking around. I was worried about you :) good luck

kelleyb
12-05-2012, 06:20 PM
IF is a good tool for keeping your calories down, so yes, it could be good if you like it/know how you want to use it. If you like low carb, then that could also be great for you. You have to choose whatever works for you, but you can def combine both.

As many people say around here, "Slow and steady wins the race." Find your patience, find the right plan for yourself, keep it strong and you will succeed.

kaplods
12-05-2012, 06:55 PM
I still don't agree with the approach of one of you

None of us expect you to agree with all of us (or even any of us), and if you remember that you'll feel a lot more supportive.

Some of the best support I get here is from the people who think what I'm doing is absolutely INSANE (and aren't afraid to tell me so). We don't have to agree to support each other, but we do have to put our opinions out there (sometimes even the ones that sound "mean" to some of us).

I actually get more out of the opinions that disagree with mine (just like I get more out of the negative reviews on amazon.com than those that are gushingly positive). Because the disagreeing opinions challenge me, and make me think.

In the end, I may decide that the critics are right and I've been making a mistake, or I may decide (whether or not I research the accuracy of their opinions) that I'm just as confident (if not more so) that my approach is right for me.

So take what helps, and forget the rest, because it's not our opinions and experiences that matter, it's sharing them that does - so that people can know that they're not alone (no matter what their experience or opinions are).

I wouldn't even want to miss out on the "harsh" criticisms, because some people say they need that, and if they believe it, even though I don't understand it, I have to accept that. I'm ordinarily not going to be the one who gives or needs it, but I also don't have to worry quite so much about how carefully I need to word my posts, because I can be assured, that no matter what I say or how I say it, it will be exactly what someone (not necessarily the op) needs to hear.

And if I or others completely botch the job and start getting nasty, the moderators will quickly remove those posts or close the thread (and remember you do have a right to contact the mods with complalints about a thread or posts to it, and you can also use the ignore function to block out posts from members whose posts upset you (you won't see any of their posts).

I have a very thick skin, but there have been members in the past (none currently) whose posts would constantly get under my skin. And yet other people would post how much they LOVED those members' posts, so it's obviously just a personality-clash thing. Blocking their posts (so to me they don't even exist to me) was extremely helpful for my emotional well-being.

Do what you've got to do, and say what you've got to say - that's the bottom line here. Not everyone is going to agree, and even some of those who passionately DISAGREE can still like you and be of support and help to you (if not on every topic, at least on some).

It is important to remember that very, very few people here are going to judge you, and those that do or seem to be aren't worth your hurt feelings. And while it may have no control over your feelings (just as many of us feel we have no control over our eating) we all do have that choice, but it takes practice to exercise it, and to find the best ways to exercise the choice.

Rikku
12-06-2012, 12:25 AM
It is important to remember that very, very few people here are going to judge you, and those that do or seem to be aren't worth your hurt feelings. And while it may have no control over your feelings (just as many of us feel we have no control over our eating) we all do have that choice, but it takes practice to exercise it, and to find the best ways to exercise the choice.

Thank you very much. I really do appriciate it. :hug:

I'm just a bit sensitive about this topic, that's all. I'm so confident in every other aspect if my life, but my weight continues to challenge me in every way.

JohnP
12-06-2012, 02:26 AM
Based on what I've read I would strongly reccomend you do not intermittent fast.

You do not have a healthy relationship with food, it seems.

After six months, if you've established some solid dietary habits, you should consider adding a 24 hour fast once or twice a week to your routine.

Intermittent fasting without good dietary habits usually does not work out well from what I have seen.

GardenBurglar
12-06-2012, 11:17 AM
Rikku-

Here are a few articles you might want to take a look at:

http://www.paleoforwomen.com/shattering-the-myth-of-fasting-for-women-a-review-of-female-specific-responses-to-fasting-in-the-literature/

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/women-and-intermittent-fasting/#axzz2EHiSD2gC

http://www.stumptuous.com/problem-3-hormone-****

http://www.stumptuous.com/problem-2-muscle-munching

Rikku
12-06-2012, 02:00 PM
Rikku-

Here are a few articles you might want to take a look at:

http://www.paleoforwomen.com/shattering-the-myth-of-fasting-for-women-a-review-of-female-specific-responses-to-fasting-in-the-literature/

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/women-and-intermittent-fasting/#axzz2EHiSD2gC

http://www.stumptuous.com/problem-3-hormone-****

http://www.stumptuous.com/problem-2-muscle-munching



Thank you, that was very informative :)

gymrat05
12-06-2012, 11:46 PM
I haven't tried intermittent fasting personally, but I'm fairly familiar with the concept having done CrossFit for 18 months where a lot of people (men and women) swear by it.

I think what it comes down to is your relationship with food. Why not try something really basic to get yourself going? Eat healthy, whole foods within a certain calorie limit and take it nice and slow. The people I know that do intermittent fasting started when they were at a healthy weight (this is just my personal experience, not saying it's the way it has to be). They had a fairly "normal" relationship with food, ate a paleo diet already and did a lot of research on IF as a means of improving fat loss and enhancing their performance in the gym. It is a very extreme way of eating so it's kind of like you need to take baby steps to get there... I think if you've been struggling with weight and food as long as you say you have it might not be the healthiest place to start.

I'm no expert, but I really feel for your situation. It shouldn't be this much of a struggle mentally. If you commit to a plan and stick with it you should feel good and see results, however slowly.

I hope you find something that does work for you. IF *can* work, but maybe just not right now, like JohnP suggested.

And don't get offended when people give it to you straight - it's done with the best intentions, even if it's not what you want to hear and not necessarily right. It's just an opinion. You could end up proving them wrong or you could end up learning from their experiences.

Good luck :)

JohnP
12-07-2012, 02:10 AM
Rikku-

Here are a few articles you might want to take a look at:

http://www.paleoforwomen.com/shattering-the-myth-of-fasting-for-women-a-review-of-female-specific-responses-to-fasting-in-the-literature/

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/women-and-intermittent-fasting/#axzz2EHiSD2gC

http://www.stumptuous.com/problem-3-hormone-****

http://www.stumptuous.com/problem-2-muscle-munching

In order ...

1) Interesting well written article. Doesn't make a big enough point that the physiology of rats and humans are significantly differnt but otherwise a good read.

2) A good read specifically and most importantly on who should and who shouldn't consider.

3) Garbage. Hormones are important but this article lacks and practical application.

4) More garbage. I couldn't find anything resembling common sense in this article. Best I can tell they take some extreme cases and attempt to apply them across the general population.

DinahGO
01-24-2013, 03:12 PM
Hi. I am new to this site and new to fasting. Only on second fast day, and of course pretty darned hungry. Anyone out there had great success, or have any tips to pass on......please!

amandie
01-24-2013, 03:38 PM
Hello, Dinah! :welcome:

I have recently come back to this site after a short hiatus and I am slowly getting back into IF (intermittent fasting). I love it! You may want to check this thread out since it is all about IF (Leangains, Eat Stop Eat and our own form of IF) here. (http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/general-diet-plans-questions/260086-eat-stop-eat-fast-5-leangains-other-if-32.html) It is not super active but people are still on there. I will be posting on there once I am 100% IF. Hope to see you there sometime! :)


Amandie

Evas
02-02-2013, 01:22 PM
Hi Dinah! Ive found that I need my bulletproof coffee in the morning or I just get too hungry! Some people argue that adding anything to your coffee means you're not actually fasting but it has been working for me! I have my bulletproof coffee around 8:30 or 9 and it takes all the way through until lunch at 1 or 2 o'clock.

This is my first time doing IF and as of today ive lost 10 pounds in 1 month! I'm also sort of pairing it with low carb in that I eat a very low carb meal for lunch when I break my fast (usually some type of meat and some type of vegetables) and then for dinner I do not limit my carbs like at lunch, i just try to stick to a sensible portion of whatever I'm eating.

dms6k
02-02-2013, 02:26 PM
What is intermittent fasting and how does it work and does it work and what are the hours that I have seen associated with this. Is this you just go so many hours without food?? Please explain.


Thanks?

Amarantha2
02-02-2013, 05:18 PM
To be honest, IF is exactly that, you go however many hours you choose without food and eat all your meals within a predetermined window and you do it on a regular pattern. I, however, just do IF now and then, still in a pattern, but I don't do it as a regular lifestyle.

There are other variations of IF. Google Fast Five, The 8-Hour Diet, Eat/Stop/Eat and Intermittent Fasting. You'll get a world of information and some misinformation.

You'll probably get some better answers on this thread when people see it.

It is a simple concept.

JohnP
02-02-2013, 05:53 PM
Yup - that is pretty much it.

IF 1-2x a week: This is taking a longer fasting period of say for up to 24 hours and repeating 1-2x a week. Typically you eat dinner - then don't eat again until dinner the next day.

Daily IF: Only eat during a certain period usually called a "feeding window". 16/8 is a fairly common cycle and the one I follow. For example I eat my last meal at 9:00 PM and then don't eat again until 1:00 PM the next day.

There is no specific eating plan to IFing. You can combine it with any kind of dietary plan. Counting calories seems to be very popular but you can combine it with anything. Paleo, aktins, south beach, weight watchers, IP diet, whatever.

Essentially it is a way to control calories because you limit the times you eat. For me personally this has been life changing and allowed me to maintain my weight for about two years without counting calories.

In theory there are some health benefits to doing this but at the moment they are unproven.

dms6k
02-02-2013, 06:03 PM
So 16/8 is 16 hours no food then you eat all your food within 8 hours...right?

So I guess my next question is how is this beneficial to weight loss? During the 8 hours it seems you still get your same amount of calories (correct)? So whats the purpose of going 16 hours w/o eating? Im not trying to demean those who do this...just trying to understand this as I have never hear of this before. Is the 16 hours (with a cutoff time to eat and not to eat) to train yourself to not eat all the time (graze i call it)?

Thanks!!

ICUwishing
02-02-2013, 06:30 PM
www.mercola.com just had a great article on this very topic - and between the article and the forum comments, there is a lot of info. Here's the article link; I'm inspired to give it a shot. http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2013/01/18/intermittent-fasting-approach.aspx

Marniadec
02-02-2013, 08:03 PM
I've been doing IF for three weeks. I try to eat a lot of protein and vegetables, but I also got addicted to pie last week and I had nothing but pizza for 3 days straight because I was completely broke. I lost 6 lbs in 2 weeks. Not bad at all.

I read that it's recommended that women eat for 10 hours and fast for 14 or that they don't do IF at all. It was in a blog called "Paleo for women" and it said that women get restless and can't sleep when they do it for a while and they're not too big. I'm 2 lbs away from getting out of the obese category, so I'm not small. I am noticing exactly these things lately, though. I slept for only 4 hours on both Thursday and Friday and today I slept for 3 hours. Right now it's 2 pm in Greece and I'm still wide awake.

JohnP
02-02-2013, 08:10 PM
So 16/8 is 16 hours no food then you eat all your food within 8 hours...right?

So I guess my next question is how is this beneficial to weight loss? During the 8 hours it seems you still get your same amount of calories (correct)? So whats the purpose of going 16 hours w/o eating? Im not trying to demean those who do this...just trying to understand this as I have never hear of this before. Is the 16 hours (with a cutoff time to eat and not to eat) to train yourself to not eat all the time (graze i call it)?

Thanks!!

Calories dictate fat loss or gain - so yes you can easily gain weight while only eating 8 hours of the day. It's benefit to weight loss is dependant on the person but for most people it is a lot easier to eat 1500 calories (for example) spread over 8 hours than it is over 12. You do need to train yourself though.

For myself when I started I had to eat by 10:00 AM or I was ready to chew off my arm. After about a week I was ok with waiting till noon but I was ravenous. Now, more than two years later, I simply don't get hungry till around 1:00 but I have no problem waiting till 3-4 if I'm busy. Most people take a couple weeks to adjust.

TripSwitch
02-02-2013, 08:40 PM
Here's how I find it beneficial for weight loss... I find that it offers a strategy to potentially reduce overall calorie consumption while potentially being more satisfied with your meals...

Here's a quick example... Say you are following a plan that calls for 1500 calories a day. Instead of dividing those calories into let's say three 400 calorie meals and two 150 calorie snacks, which some people don't find very satisfying (eating relatively small 400 calorie meals that is...) by dividing those calories into larger meals it can be much more satisfying.

Personally, I like larger meals... I find them much more satisfying, so by eating less frequently I'm able to still to enjoy them and still keep overall calories in check...

Another important advantage and added bonus I find is the reduction in meal planning and cooking... and by eating less frequently I find that I'm thinking about food less often, which for me has been very helpful as well...

P.S. Didn't see JohnP's response above before I posted this.... So sorry for any redundancy...

Amarantha2
02-02-2013, 08:49 PM
That is why I've experimented with it, to get a better handle on eating times. I naturally don't eat early breakfast on Sundays anyhow only because I grew up around people who had Sunday brunch and didn't eat until it was time for that. I also used to not eat breakfast on other days unless I was particularly hungry and it was only when all the nutritionists in the universe started saying how vital it was to eat breakfast that I began to eat a meal my biological clock said I didn't need AND then when all the nutritionists said I should eat six times a day or worse "graze" I ended up feeling I needed to eat all the time and while doing everything ... working, reading, driving, you name it.

When I discovered IF, I realized that it can be quite normal, actually, to, uh, not eat all the time and that I can survive without eating for a while.

So I like it when I do it. It makes me feel peaceful. It does not affect my weight at all. It is just an eating pattern.

I have stopped doing IF for a while, though, because I had some bad experiences with it, not feeling well.

Might try it again, or not.

NOTE: Didn't see Trip Switch's response when I posted this. I also agree with her points, although I think I do better with smaller meals in most instances.

Marniadec
02-02-2013, 08:50 PM
JohnP, so do you think that the claims about insulin, FFAs, etc are not true?

I agree with it being easier. I had chicken parmesan and mashed potatoes with cheddar cheese today and I could have been within my calorie limit. Of course, I followed with red velvet cake because I've wanted to try it for years so I probably went off, but whatever. I had red velvet cake! But, yes, you can eat normal, satisfying meals.

You also learn to eat more structured, I think. In the beginning, I'd eat all my calories and stay up late and when I'd starve, it would be very difficult to keep away, but IF makes it a lot easier somehow. And it helps with the water retention which is a huge problem for me.

dms6k
02-02-2013, 10:00 PM
thanks for the info on this....I find this very interesting!!

JohnP
02-02-2013, 11:02 PM
JohnP, so do you think that the claims about insulin, FFAs, etc are not true?

I think that rat and mice cannot be used as substitutes for people. I think that small studies on specific populations (like young healthy dutch men) cannot be used as evidence that all people will have similar results.

In my opinion, I think there probably are some minor health benefits to intermittent fasting but that they are overhyped just like many other things. I also think that men are probably better suited to intermittent fasting than women and in particular lean women should be careful. Until we have better studies I'm skeptical or how beneficial intermittent fasting is compared to eating 3x a day when it comes to health and most likely it is dependant on the individual context.

That said - when it comes to controlling calories - I think many people would greatly benefit by eating fewer larger meals. My wife is a natural grazer. I'm not. Eating every 2-3 hours drove me insane and I was always hungry. Now I eat 2 times a day, sometimes 3.

TripSwitch
02-03-2013, 12:44 AM
I think John brings up a good point... that women should be careful with it... I have read some anecdotal reports of women having some serious issues with IF, and also that a 14/10 window might be better for women if IF is practiced, but like I said this is just what I've heard anecdotally... I haven't seen the research on this yet if there is any...

Also I'm not using IF to lose weight, I'm using it as part of my strategy to reduce my BF% and so far I feel it's been very beneficial for me in that regard... but once again I have some pretty specific fitness goals that I would like to achieve again... So I'll be constantly reevaluating as I go along...

As far as possible health benefits... I do wonder about them... So far what I have seen for myself besides the gradual reduction in BF% is a pretty dramatic reduction in fasting blood sugars and postprandial numbers as well, which I like to track to see how my body is responding during the fasting periods and my eating window... So I guess depending on what you believe about insulin there might be some benefit there as well...

Fluffypuppy
02-03-2013, 12:56 AM
Interesting. This is what my body wants to do. I almost never eat between 10pm and 12pm and could easily go later into the afternoon. I usually have nothing in the morning, a light lunch, a light dinner and then a few snacks throughout the evening. Most of my eating is between 6pm and 10pm.

JohnP
02-03-2013, 02:59 AM
So far what I have seen for myself besides the gradual reduction in BF% is a pretty dramatic reduction in fasting blood sugars and postprandial numbers as well, which I like to track to see how my body is responding during the fasting periods and my eating window... So I guess depending on what you believe about insulin there might be some benefit there as well...

The thing is - you're not only intermittent fasting. You're training as well correct? Weight lifting and HIIT have profound effect on insulin sensativity. Furthermore - you've lost a lot of fat. That by itself increases insulin sensativity.

On the other hand - it does seem that intermittent fasting helps fasting blood sugar levels - and helps hypoglycemia as well. (The opposite of what oneo might expect)

Overall - I'd love to see some better research on intermittent fasting and I think in the years to come we will.

emurph
02-03-2013, 08:08 AM
This is pretty interesting because I naturally do 14/10.

I eat dinner around 6pm and then don't usually eat breakfast until 8 or 9am. So, that's 14 hours of fasting, but I've never been a nighttime eater and am usually not hungry first thing in the morning so I've never considered that I was fasting.

I must stay within my calorie limits during the 10 hours of eating though or I will gain weight. So for me, IF is not doing anything miraculous. Not eating for 14 hours is not influencing how or what I eat during the 10 daytime hours.

dms6k
02-03-2013, 08:44 AM
IF seems to make sense. I am normally not a bfast eater and I can actually do until 11-noon without eating as long as I have my coffee. I tried the grazing thing but unfortunately thats probably how I ended up eating too much and my mind was/sometimes is always focused on the next eating session. Grazing just is not good for me as I feel like my life surrounds food all day long and I dont like that. It's almost as if you feel like you have to eat.

My worst time of eating is at nighttime. really a struggle between the hours of 7pm-10pm. Tried cutting it off but so far no luck...just a hurdle i have to try to overcome I guess.

Thanks for all the info on IF!!

TripSwitch
02-03-2013, 11:23 AM
The thing is - you're not only intermittent fasting. You're training as well correct? Weight lifting and HIIT have profound effect on insulin sensativity. Furthermore - you've lost a lot of fat. That by itself increases insulin sensativity.

On the other hand - it does seem that intermittent fasting helps fasting blood sugar levels - and helps hypoglycemia as well. (The opposite of what oneo might expect)

Overall - I'd love to see some better research on intermittent fasting and I think in the years to come we will.

Another good point... You're right I definitely don't think IF is the only reason for the progress I've been seeing lately... And also for anyone who happens to come upon this thread I hope they realize that even though I'm big fan of IF now, it's only one piece of the puzzle for me...

Now as far as all of the talk about insulin in certain weight loss circles these days... I think it's safe to say there is A LOT of FACT vs. FICTION to be sorted through there... but I guess on it's face I can see how the logic of lower blood sugars = lower insulin levels = lower fat storage makes sense to people... but people have to be careful to not oversimplify things too much and realize there is a lot of other things going on there as well...

I came across a quote the other day that went something like "Make things as simple as possible... but not simpler" and somehow that seemed like really good advice to me... especially when it comes to weight loss...