Faith Based Support Groups - Shroud of Turin - Fact or fiction?

07-19-2010, 02:55 AM
I watched a 2 hour special on TV earlier today which had some pretty interesting and compelling information. I was wondering what others thoughts are on the shroud?

07-19-2010, 09:49 AM
I have read a few interesting stories over the years about it yet still don't know much. To be honest it never really matters much to me if it is or isn't real...if we find the ark or not. I am not sure if we will ever prove these things but it doesn't matter to me. My belief is elsewhere :val1: ;)

I think it makes for an interesting "talk" though :)

Here is what my church says about it...not sure of the date when it was posted.

Shroud Of Turin

Q. I always love to visit your wonderful website for your insight into Christian doctrine. I do have a question today that I don't see addressed anywhere: Does the Lutheran church have an opinion regarding the Shroud of Turin? Many Christian churches do not seem to take either side of the debate and so good information on the issue is hard to come by.

A. Neither the Synod nor its offices, to my knowledge, has said anything regarding the Shroud of Turin--though we have been aware of recent discussions regarding it. From a theological perspective in general about such matters, it may be important to note that even though an artifact of established authenticity, from an historical perspective, could possibly lend credence to biblical accounts (as would archeological finds, for example), saving faith in Christ is never produced by artifacts but its solely and alone a creation of the Holy Spirit working through the means of grace (Gospel and sacraments). Incidentally, you may want to ask your local library if it has archived the April 20, 1998, issue of Time magazine. In this issue there is an informative article on the Shroud titled "Science and the Shroud."

07-19-2010, 02:03 PM
Thanks EZ :)

I wasn't hanging my belief in it, I just think it is interesting :D

07-19-2010, 08:29 PM
MICHELLE ~ You are correct -- some of these things are very interesting and I have read about them all. I remember when it was first discovered and there was a lot of excitement about it; but as time went on and more tests were done, discrepancies in the science came up, but both sides had put forth compelling stories. :D

And, you will find that there are other discoveries like the Dead Sea Scrolls and tombs of some of the disciples and so forth as well. These kinds of things make for good reading, and good fodder, and bring a lot of tourists to Israel and other places too. ;)

07-19-2010, 09:37 PM
MEESH ~ I didn't think you were basing your belief in the shroud...I was just posting what I (we) think about it...

Jesus did walk this Earth...there is proof out there of the times in which He did...our world may prove without a doubt the shroud was actually on Jesus...but our world STILL won't believe it...same as the ark...nothing changes if it is or isn't found for me.

It is hard to explain to others, but as Christians...we have the proof of His existence in our hearts...we don't need any other proof...

but that does not mean that we don't search for evidence and keep seeking more of His life to learn....

07-19-2010, 10:35 PM
GARY ~ I know where there's an Ark ... I am going to get a picture of it for you if I can; and I was just looking at it today. On the road to our lot, a Christian man built an Ark about the size of a large boat; and he did a great job of it. Many people have tried to buy it from him, but he won't budge. Not sure what he plans on doing with it but in the meantime, it just sits there for all to see ... :shrug:

07-19-2010, 11:48 PM
The shroud of Turin doesn't jive with the biblical account of burial practices nor the archaelogic record of burial practices of the historical time period.

My understanding is that strips of cloth (often dipped in herbs and/or perfumes) were wound around the body (like a Mummy) and a sepate piece of cloth was used for the head.

There are descriptions of the burial cloths for both Christ's and Lazarus' in the scriptures that reinforce that image.

That doesn't sound like the shroud of turin at all. Just folding a cloth over the body, which is the only way the Turin should could have been folded, would be a huge departure from tradition, and it wouldn't jive with the account in scripture of Peter finding the linen cloths and the head covering seperately (which would make sense only if tradition had been followed).

Some have argued that Jesus was wrapped in the burial cloths and THEN the Turin shroud was folded over the wrapped body - but you'd expect to see some signs of those wrappings on the image - because the wrapping would have distorted some of the detail that can be seen.

07-20-2010, 12:46 AM
Michelle thanks for starting this discussion.Starting discussions like this really helps me get to know the Bible even better. I did not even know what
Shroud of Turin, meant!

Gary I am with you ,this is an interesting talk, love this discussion, for I know nothing about it and eager to learn..

Rosebud they had a man on TV who built the ark like you are talking about .I wonder if he is the same one. I still wonder how they got all those animals on there and kept them cleaned up so they would not get sick. They had a all day job doing that! Making sure they were fed and watered and then cleaning up the deposits.

Kaplods, that is interesting , do you are anyone know what kind of herbs was used for burial? If there was a special reason for these special herbs. Was it to preserve the body or just something they did at all burials?

07-20-2010, 12:16 PM
Kaplods, that is interesting , do you are anyone know what kind of herbs was used for burial? If there was a special reason for these special herbs. Was it to preserve the body or just something they did at all burials?

I'm not sure of the complete significance, but as I understand it, from bible studies and church sermons - frankincense and myrrh were both traditional burial herbs in ancient cultures in the Middle and Far East (including Jewish). Myrrh was used by the egyptians in embalming the bodies of pharaohs, but the Hebrews wouldn't have embalmed the dead because that would mean cutting into the body (again this is just from my very limited second and third hand knowledge, as I'm not a biblical scholar myself).

There were probably several reasons, including preserving the body, and perfuming the body to cover the smell of decay. But the herbs were expensive, so they'd also be seen as an important symbol of love, respect and mourning. Even today, people often spend exhorbitant amounts of money on funerals and headstones (both of which can easily be more expensive than a car). Why? It's complicated, but part of it is feeling the loved one deserves to have a beautiful "resting spot," even though we don't really believe that the person's soul is lying in the coffin in the ground.

I imagine burials were as complicated to ancient people's as well. It was a sign of wealth and standing in the community, as well as love, respect, and mourning for the lost loved one.

This thread inspired me to googled using the phrase (with no quotes in the search box); "jewish first century burial customs"

I just started reading from the links, and it's really interesting. Too involved to get into the details, but if you're interested you could spend weeks reading on the topic.

07-20-2010, 08:08 PM
BOOTSIE ~ as far as I know, they were in the ark for only 40 days & 40 nights, but I imagine they dumped the refuse out of the ark. Plus, another possibility is that -- if the animals were on one floor, the refuse could have been dumped into holding bins or tanks on the bottom floor. I'm pretty sure there were multiple floors with the people living on the top floor, so that would support that theory.

Noah had all his children & their spouses with him on the Ark, so "many hands make for light work" as my mother used to say. Our family looked after a barn full of animals every day; and since that's all they had to do while on there, they probably spent a good part of their day doing that, so they wouldn't have been bored ... and it was only for 40 days or just shy of 6 weeks.

Also, I think GOD may have touched these animals in some special way to make them more peaceable than others as well. As GARY stated in another place, many animals were much more tame before the flood than after it; which is something I wasn't aware of until he mentioned that -- so they weren't really afraid of man at that time either. (Genesis 9:2)

08-05-2010, 05:36 PM
Hi: I believe it's real. I met the forensic PhD. that did several study on the Shroud itself. One day I will share all the interesting things he discovered that very few people know. I actually met him in person and talk to him for a long time!!!