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ohlove
07-06-2010, 12:55 AM
Hi all,

I am reading the Bible for the first time, and I'm struggling with just what to do with the Old Testament. I read the New Testament first, and I didn't have the problems that I'm having with the Old Testament. I'm wondering how exactly does the Old Testament fit into being a Christian? I'm only as far as Exodus 23, and I just don't know what to make of the "laws" or rules. I'm so lost at this point that I'm not even sure what questions I should be asking. I'd appreciate your help with this if you have some thoughts on it. Thanks!


maryea
07-06-2010, 02:49 AM
The whole Bible is really about Christ. He was in the beginning long before being born on earth. He is the Word made flesh. Jesus Christ fulfilled the Old Testament. We no longer live by law but by faith in Him. The blood sacrifices were a foreshadowing of His death for our sins on the cross. The passover (when the death angel "passed" over those who put the blood on their door posts) is another foreshadowing of this. There's a lot more...even places in the OT where Jesus appeared but the main thing is that Jesus is the Star of the whole Bible and we live by faith in Him and what He has done for us. I see the OT events as generally being concrete examples of something spiritual for us. Often the New Testament refers to them in this way or as types of what was to come. There are many rules in the OT that pertain to that time, some Jesus reiterated which shows their importance for us too, but many He didn't. We are freed from the Law but that freedom is to live His life and do good works not to sin. These are some of my thoughts on this.

JessLess
07-06-2010, 07:18 AM
This is just one person's opinion. I'm a Reform Jew, which means that I believe that Judaism and Jewish traditions should be modernized and should be compatible with participation in the surrounding culture. I don't take the Old Testament literally. Some of the laws like eating Kosher were to keep people at that time from getting sick from things like Trichinosis from pork.


hairchick40v
07-06-2010, 08:17 AM
I believe alot of the book of the OT show us the true scope of Gods grace!! The book of Ruth for example show how God takes the women who are literally widowed and homeless and restores them to stature in their time... Also the books of first and second Samuel tell the story of king David and how even though he screwed up and sinned continually God still shined favor on him.... A proverb a day keeps the devil away!!! Scan through the laws rules and the begots and focus on the meat of the story!! There are some super cool stories in the OT!! Also it help if you read an easier translation. I an a NIV or ESV girl my self!! I also read it on my phone through Youversion.com has every translation so you can compare!! I hope this helps!!!

Rochester
07-06-2010, 09:37 AM
There is a book called Christ Before the Manger (http://www.amazon.com/Christ-Before-Manger-Times-Preincarnate/dp/0801077664) that reveals the foreshadowing of Jesus throughout the O.T. This book really changed how I read the O.T.

Another thing I would recommend is using a chronological Bible because (for me) it helps to read things in a logical order and see how the people and stories are connected.

Max Lucado has some great Bible studies on the O.T. books that help to apply the information to everyday life. (This link (http://www.amazon.com/Life-Lessons-Genesis-Max-Lucado/dp/0849953200/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1278419695&sr=1-9) is for the one on Genesis.)

EZMONEY
07-06-2010, 09:41 AM
Great answers to your post already OHLOVE.

As mentioned....so many cool things to read...and some disturbing too!

So many great lessons and comfort through Proverbs and Psalms....

Knowing we don't live by the "law" anymore because Christ has already come for us sure makes me realize how tough it would have been on me to keep some of those!

Enjoy your time spent in the Old Testament.

Bootsie
07-06-2010, 10:52 AM
I understand where your coming from. I to have trouble with understanding things in the Bible, or you might say to accepting things the way they were but this group sure can help you out in that. You got some great advice as well as I did in Understanding the Bible. Asking questions really helps our spiritual growth, will not learn anything if we don't ask. This group is full of knowledge, just love them!

gonnabananny2010
07-06-2010, 11:36 AM
hmm very interesting conversation here. Im seventh day and we do believe the old testament and also believe that we must follow all of God's rules to the best of our ability, which does include the no eating pork. Adventists believe God laid out his plan for our best health, salvation, and life style and although Jesus came to save us it did not end the laws laid out for us. So we do celebrate sabbath like the Jewish and eat kosher and no pork, crab, lobster, shrimp as well as a list of other things. lol I will admit though we don't eat healthy and many of us struggle with weight. lol hence being here. Have a blessed day!

Bootsie
07-06-2010, 03:03 PM
I am glad you brought up the laws on eating....I been checking that one out for I was raised up on pork, if it had not been for that ,rabbit, squirrel, armadillo, fish, turtle, deer and good old frog legs, watermelon , corn, potatoes and gravy and biscuits we would of starved to death. Now a days the armadillo is a state animal ha! That kinda shows how old I am...My husband and my new Grandpa on our honeymoon had me help out in processing an old hog! That was the first time I ever gave a hog a bath and shave! Pork chops sure was good but that Prune cake Grandma made that day was even better!
I would like to hear what y'all have to say on eating for that has been brought to my attention more than once. I couldn't get myself to eat pork for 3 months, till I read something in the Bible and I cannot remember where I read it , that God said it was alright. But ya know I don't know all about the Bible still studying it , so yes i am very interested what y'all have to say about eating. Oh I don't eat rabbit, armadillo, turtle and squirrel anymore, it just is not on my Hubbies menu !;)

Justwant2Bhealthy
07-06-2010, 04:54 PM
I agree that you have some great advice here already by Maryea & Hairchick -- I have some similar thoughts as them.

As Christians we do "believe in" the old testament, but we are now freed from the imperfections of the law, through JESUS CHRIST who came to fulfill the law or become a better law or way. As PAUL explains in Hebrews, the law served its purpose: to show us that we are sinners and fall short of the glory of GOD.

Now that the Messiah, JESUS CHRIST, has come and fulfilled many of the prophecies and promises of the OT, we are cleansed by HIS BLOOD and HIS SACRIFICE; and are now FREE from the bondage of sin and death, plus endless rules and statutes and laws.

Paul explains this in both Romans and Hebrews in the NT, which are both very meaty books to read. I love the PSALMS; and the Wisdom in the book of PROVERBS is of great value; and other books like JOB and ISAIAH, and many others have good stuff in them too. There are indeed many wonderful stories in the OT that we can all learn from, so we should read it and be blessed by them.

But be warned -- the OT is blunt and does contain a lot of records and tells us the way things really were ... it isn't "always" telling us the way it should be, but the way it was ~ the way things used to be a very long time ago, BEFORE Jesus came to free us. We are indeed blessed to be under this new grace that Jesus has won for us all.

BOOTSIE ~ yes, there are verses in the new testament where PAUL stated that we can now eat anything in the market place or shambles as they were known then (1 Corinthians 10:25 & surrounding verses). He said it is a matter of FAITH; eat what you want to or believe you should eat. We now have great freedom through Christ; to eat or not to eat ... it is up to each individual. If you want to be a vegetarian, that is OK; if you want to eat meat (or pork), that is OK too.

This issue of PORK keeps coming up -- here in the north, some people eat Bear which is also forbidden in the old testament. We also believe that PORK was forbidden becuz it had hidden health dangers in that day. I think we have to be careful about eating anything today, ie watching out for salmonella in raw meats and foods too; BUT we have to live by faith or we would be afraid to eat altogether.

Paul encouraged us not to argue over this but to be gracious to one another in the "freedom of choice" (I am paraphrasing in general here; not quoting). He even said not to offend anyone in the things that we allow. We respect our sisters and brothers of the Jewish faith as well as other Christian groups, and their right to believe, and do as they see fit for themselves and their lives. As PAUL would say, "Let everyone decide for themselves" ... :hug:

EZMONEY
07-06-2010, 07:39 PM
When reading the Old Testament some folks get confused ...probably all of us at some point....on what God wants us to eat. There are many lessons in the OT surrounding food...manna from Heaven ;)

God wants us to eat things that are good for us :)

Some churches encourage certain diets but most do not.

Not important for slavation :carrot:

Scripture shows us we are not to make fun of or be made fun of by other Christians on what we eat.


Colossians 2:16-18 (New International Version)

16 ~Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 ~These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 ~Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions.

From my study Bible Paul tells us here the ceremonial laws of the OT are referred to as shadows (Heb 8:5; 10:1) because they symbolically depicted the coming of Christ; so any insistence on the observance of such ceremonies is a failure to recognize that their fullfilment has already taken place.

This is from our LCMS website on eating unclean foods ~

Unclean Foods


Q. What is the Lutheran policy on eating pork or shellfish? I've heard from other Christians that they are not allowed to eat these because of the scripture in Leviticus. Are there other certain foods that Lutherans need to abstain from?

A. Lutherans teach that Old Testament ceremonial laws regarding "clean" and "unclean" foods are not binding on Christians, having been fulfilled in the coming of Jesus Christ. As St. Paul teaches in Colossians 2:16-17, "Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ."

gonnabananny2010
07-06-2010, 10:35 PM
I think for myself it is easier for me when I look at the laws in Leviticus. The reason there is clean food and unclean food does go beyond how something is cooked. Unclean foods are scavengers. They eat garbage, rotting food and carcasses of other animals. The skim the bottom of the ocean eating algae and slim. So God tells us we don't eat animals that are scavengers like pigs, vultures, lobster, shrimp and so on because their nutritional content is not good. We wouldn't eat garbage would we? so we don't eat animals that consume garbage. I agree that pork and shellfish is dangerous when not cooked properly and can further cause us disease. The diet God gave us in the beginning was the garden of eden diet, fruits, vegetables, nuts, grains and God said take from it and eat. It was once we introduced meat and seafood that we started to have ailments. Just to be clear Im a meat eater...just chicken and salmon and tuna but meat eater still the same. lol Look how our bodies are made, how long it takes to break down vegetables and fruit compared to beef. Our bodies were made to try and digest those harsher foods. Just my two cents

and your exactly right, no one should be judged in any way shape or form for what they eat or believe....there is only one judge and that is our heavenly father. have a blessed night everyone

maryea
07-07-2010, 12:14 AM
I wanted to add that I love the Old Testament! Always loved the stories like David and Goliath but like many struggled with it otherwise. No more...now it is speaks to me as much spiritually as the NT because of how I see the fulfillment we have in Jesus. So just read it prayerfully and also read the NT and ask God to guide your understanding.

As to the foods, I feel free to eat anything but I do think that the Creator God knows what is best for me and try to eat healthy most of the time. Obviously I wouldn't be on this forum if I always ate right...my biggest issue has been gluttony something I honestly think should be addressed more from the pulpit!

I used to think that those things were not to be eaten just because of the time like pork needs to be well cooked etc., but with more health info I have come to the conclusion that these foods may not be as healthy as some have thought. If you think of the jobs that at least some of these seafood (not sure about them all) do in the ocean and even with the "whitewashing" the pork industry has tried to do with their products "the other white meat" I prefer not to eat these foods. Not so easy as I still love bacon and do have a little now and then! But I try to avoid them...the seafood is easy as I only like fish and I do eat only fish with scales because of the toxicity..makes sense to me that smooth-skinned fish are more likely to absorb it. But these rules are not reiterated in the NT, and we are not saved or made righteous in any way by what we eat...it is not what man eats but what is in his heart.

You have gotten a lot of good responses and hope it has helped.

Bootsie
07-07-2010, 12:45 AM
I love the stories also in the old testament about Sarah , it shows me God has a sense of humor , I laugh every time I think of her laughing . I just know God had to laugh too.:smug: Then there is Ruth my Mother was named after her. There are so many good stories! I love the Psalms and I read them for everyone on here at night time and my other friends, sorta like praying for everyone. The Bible is awesome, even though at times I don't understand it but I have friends that do and have helped me a-lot!:hug:

Justwant2Bhealthy
07-07-2010, 10:11 AM
Interesting subject ~ my DH and I were talking about this last night; and I just want to be clear that we do respect the basic laws of the bible like the Ten Commandments, and many others that were expounded upon in the NT also; and we definitely obey the laws of the land (our country). I meant endless rules, traditions, ceremonies, rites, etc regarding eating, sacrifices, and other stuff, as Jesus changed that for us when He came.

GONNABANANNY ~ I agree with your thoughts there about the animals that are scavengers and yes, pigs do scavenge as well. They say that today, they are cleaner and are now only fed "clean feed" but as you know what happened with some other meats/foods, there has been a problem with them. So, we all can decide for ourselves what we should eat for health or religious reasons. I do avoid some kinds of foods if I am not sure about them; esp after working in the fastfood industry for some time in the past.


MARYEA ~ we have the opposite issue here; "gluttony" is preached about so much that many people stop going to church. I think we need to discuss "HEALTHY EATING" OR "HEALTHY LIFESTYLE" which focuses on how to eat and live well, rather than pointing fingers at people until they feel persecuted.

There is no other group that is set apart for their appearance today, and since this issue is so complex, it must be handled sensitively and wisely.

Plus, many churches turn around and serve "unhealthy" foods at potlucks, teas, and lunches right after preaching at people for being "fat" ... this is the worst kind of hypocrisy to me.

Many of us are becoming much more health conscious today and that can only be a good thing really ... :D

EZMONEY
07-07-2010, 10:42 AM
.... but with more health info I have come to the conclusion that these foods may not be as healthy as some have thought .

I agree with you on this MARYEA but I believe it's more because of what WE have done to our food and not because it is from God's instructions to us.

People/Christians will be disagreeing with this issue until He comes again ;)

EZMONEY
07-07-2010, 10:50 AM
....

Plus, many churches turn around and serve "unhealthy" foods at potlucks, teas, and lunches right after preaching at people for being "fat" ... this is the worst kind of hypocrisy to me.
:D

:D ROSEBUD I had three 7th Day Adventists here for our bbq on the 4th of July week-end...my son in law is one. Anyway 2 were eating carnitas and carne asada when I teased them (2 go to one 7th day and 1 to another...although they admit not often enough)...saying "HEY! I thought you guys didn't eat meat"...knowing from many discussions with them in the past that it isn't a requirement in their church just a suggestion on their goals for healthy lives....

One of the young men has never eaten meat, both parents vegetarians...but said a lot of his 7th day friends do.

Anyway, my sil's mom is all vegetarian so he tries to hide his meat eating from her...and his beer too ;)...almost 30...I am sure she knows....

but the subject came up and all the guys said...oh! we would never take meat to a church potluck :D

We all got a laugh out of that.

gonnabananny2010
07-07-2010, 04:05 PM
Hey Ez Money,

Im a 7th day adventist and we bring food every weekend to church. In our church we service and then fellowship for the day. People bring Ox tail and stewed chicken and stewed fish and others bring tofu lasagna, we always have a mix of vegetarian and non vegetarian food and we even have vegans in our church as well. All adventists have a choice of what they eat, no one would bring pork, lobster, crab, shrimp stuff like that though. No one is looked down on for eating meat either. My husband and I still eat chicken, tuna, salmon. Adventist do live more active and healthier lives on a whole and I wish I had grown up adventist. I read an article recently stating those who follow the laws of the bible OT live on average 7 years longer. I thought it interesting. However, like everyone here I have filled my body with unhealthy foods, over eating, stress eating and just plain eating through my life. I am now just coming to the realization that the laws God put forth for us like the bible spans all time, He is the beginning and the end and knew all along what we would need. I guess I believe if he only wanted us to eat those foods for a short period of time till people cooked it better he would have said don't eat this food till you learned how to cook it longer. Or don't eat the pork till you feed it grains only and not by products of other animals and scraps. I didn't eat the pork even before becoming and adventist, one day I was at sick kids with my son and read an article there and it said pig farmers give their animals 75% more anitbiotics to keep them healthy then canada allows and 50% more growth hormone allowed and that is why our daughters are getting periods at 10 and we get sick and antibiotics don't work for us. That was enough for me even though I was down to just bacon then. lol Not to mention everytime I ate bacon my stomach would just cramp right up for hours afterwards.

I love this talk that is going on, really gives me some points of views and also questions I will be posing to my elders so I know why we do what we do. This is very stimulating. lol have a great day girls.

Justwant2Bhealthy
07-07-2010, 08:00 PM
... no one would bring pork, lobster, crab, shrimp stuff like that though.

:lol:


oh! we would never take meat to a church potluck!

:lol: ... again!


DH and I actually went to a church where the minister would preach for over an hour about "gluttony" and people being "fat" -- then they went right over to their tea table where only cookies, bars, and cakes were served up with coffee and sugar-laden kool-aide for the kiddies right after the service every single week (we don't go there anymore).

DH and I don't go to the potlucks for that very reason; but if I did, I would take a salad and veggie tray. I have never heard DH's church preach at people about this topic, but they do have lunches with sandwiches and squares, and other healthy dinners occasionally. His old church had a nice breakfast once a month and you can choose what to eat like eggs, meat (ya bacon and sausages), toast, coffee, etc and pass on the pancakes, but my DH eats them all becuz he's so skinny ... ;)

It is truly hard to find a church that serves up healthy dishes; maybe a new trend will start if enough people push for it by bringing and serving healthier fare ... I hope so!!! :D

gonnabananny2010
07-07-2010, 10:42 PM
maybe my church is different, my husband was bringing sour candy to church and handing it out....and he was taken aside and told it was unhealthy and improper to bring that to church and the elder suggested veggie chips and dried fruit. This was brought about by a parent complaining on the unhealthy example it was setting. I will also say my church is different then most churches they run a chip program...which is cardiac health improvement program as well and is involved in all sorts of sports.

EZMONEY
07-08-2010, 12:08 AM
I really need to get to bed...early day tomorrow....but I really want to get back here and post!

Cool stuff we have going on!

maryea
07-10-2010, 04:46 PM
MARYEA ~ we have the opposite issue here; "gluttony" is preached about so much that many people stop going to church. I think we need to discuss "HEALTHY EATING" OR "HEALTHY LIFESTYLE" which focuses on how to eat and live well, rather than pointing fingers at people until they feel persecuted.

There is no other group that is set apart for their appearance today, and since this issue is so complex, it must be handled sensitively and wisely.

Plus, many churches turn around and serve "unhealthy" foods at potlucks, teas, and lunches right after preaching at people for being "fat" ... this is the worst kind of hypocrisy to me.

Many of us are becoming much more health conscious today and that can only be a good thing really ... :D

I agree. Our head pastor eats and lives very healthy and he does put in little advice about eating healthy here and there but not much. I think he realizes it is a sensitive issue, but I do feel it would be helpful to have more (at our church). I don't mean being critical of fat people but in helping people see that gluttony is sin and like any sin there is forgiveness and deliverance in the Lord. I grew up in a family that did not even consider habitual overeating sin (gluttony) so there was a point in time when I had to recognize this.

The potlucks to me are ok but we as people need to learn how to eat in moderation and many have not learned that. It's just like when going to a family dinner or a restaurant...you have to think before you eat and obviously most of us don't too often. I Know I didn't for sure in the past and still sometimes don't. I have watched our pastor at potlucks, and while he does a lot of talking about how good the food looks etc, he spends most of his time walking around socializing and not eating. I think I can learn a lesson from him!

I also notice that the closer I draw to the Lord...the more time I spend feasting on His Word and praying, the less I eat.

Bootsie
07-10-2010, 05:42 PM
I agree too If I could find a church like that, they could not keep me out of it. For I feel a church should not only be there for hard times but be there for you during struggles through your lives and weight gain is a big struggle. It causes so many members to have heart trouble and other illness and their bodies end up six foot under.

EZMONEY
07-10-2010, 06:23 PM
Hi Gals ~

Over the last few days I have been searching through the scriptures on food :)

I also found the following in my LCMS website ~

Man and Animals


Q. Up until the time of the flood, animals and humans seem to have an understanding between them. Meat was not eaten. However, after the flood, God put fear of man in to the animals' hearts and allowed meat to be eaten. God also set the rainbow in the sky as a sign that he would not send another flood. This sign was for both humans and animals. My questions are: Why after the flood and not after the fall, does God separate man and animal? Why the change in diet? And why place the fear of man in animals? I was also wondering why the Bible makes a point of saying that the rainbow is a sign for man and animals? That seems to imply that animals have a level of understanding that is beyond what we tend to think. If animals know about God, then how can we justify eating them?

A. In response to your first question, "Why after the flood and not after the fall, does God separate man and animal?" we can say this. Your question seems to presume ("separate man and animal") that there was a period when there was no "separation" between humans and animals. However one understands a term like "separation" as it is used in this connection, it should be remembered that at creation man, who alone was created in the image of God, was expressly given by God dominion "over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature than moves on the ground." While both are creatures of God, man and animals are clearly not on some kind of equal footing. For reasons that God has not revealed to us, man's diet prior to the flood was limited to "green plants." However, recalling for man the divine arrangement at creation, God tells Noah and his sons, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth" (cf. Gen. 1:28a) and "they [animals] are given into your hands" (9:2; cf. Gen. 1:28b). The Creator Himself expressly permits the eating of animals. The exercise of man's dominion now permitted by God to include the use of animals for food, Genesis tells us, drives fear into the creatures under man--and understandably so. We might add here that in general the Christian tradition has long held that animals may be killed and eaten for food in keeping with what is said in Genesis 9. That this is not a mere concession to the human race in its fallen condition, is the apparent assumption of Jesus and His apostles that animals may be eaten without sin. At the same time, we are to remember that animals are God's creation, that He provides for them (Matt. 6), and that they may serve as very fitting images for higher spiritual truths, most especially truths about how the Kingdom of God comes (Luke 15:3-7; John 10). They are not to be treated with cruelty, but received as God's good gifts over which He has placed us as stewards (Gen. 1:28)--which includes our use of them for food and for our enjoyment. It is possible that the wise saying in Proverbs 12:10 has some application in this connection: "A righteous man has regard for the life of his beast...."

In response to your question regarding the rainbow, we would say this. That God reveals His promise never again to destroy man and the earth (v. 13), which includes "all living creatures" as well, does not imply that some level of cognitive awareness exempts animals from the provision given by God in Gen. 9:1-3. The term "earth" in verse 13 would obviously include as well forms of life other than animals.

EZMONEY
07-10-2010, 06:33 PM
I also found the following scripture that I find helpful to me :)


Romans 14:14-22

14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food[a] is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.

19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.

22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves.


1 Corinthians 8:8-13

8But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.

9Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol's temple, won't he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? 11So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.

bargoo
07-10-2010, 06:56 PM
The Old Testament, where to begin ? In no particuler order. The Psalms, full of wonderful praise and comfort as well. Proverbs, a lot of sage advice. Isaiah, many wonderful prophcies that we can see fulfilled in the New Testament. Most Bibles will have footnotes showing references to other scriptures. As an example Matthew 1:23 see Isaiah 7:14. Just a few examples. Bible scholars spend years studying scripture, both Old Testament and New Testament.

EZMONEY
07-10-2010, 07:11 PM
Reading through the scriptures and a couple of study Bibles, to me, it seems quite clear that all food is clean.

The Old Testament shows us how food was used for spiritual, theological and health concerns.

I think God's Word shows us in the New Testament... it ain't about the food ;)

I found several verses where His Word clearly tells us to :mad: knock it off! :mad: when issues about food cause us to be weak in faith :)

Our Pastor reminds us from time to time...All things in moderation.

I think we, as people, have shown wonderful ways to grow our food and provide benefits to all people...and we, as people, have shown how greed can damage our food....

I believe that common sense given to us by God sure does show us that we probably should not be eating like we do today.

Thanks for asking the questions you did BOOTSIE :hug:

EZMONEY
07-10-2010, 08:05 PM
I had to :D laugh a little bit about the potluck stories.

Many years ago, probably 28 or so, I was on the Good Neighbor Potluck committee. It is a potluck we have each year on the Wednesday before Maundy/Holy Thursday. We go out into the local neighborhood handing out flyers inviting folks to the potluck and Easter services. Anyway, my job was to call people from our church and remind them to come and bring a dish to share. Well I was a little concerned that there wasn't enough response to my requests...so...I asked my mom to make a few things like chili and lasagna that I could bring in addition to what my wife and I were bringing. Well my mom made my requests and also a nice big healthy salad.....guess what I brought ALL of back home ;)

We still have those potlucks at my church. Over the years the food has become a little bit more healthy for sure :) But the :jeno: pizza ~ the fried :chicken: chicken ~ :cheese: cheesy casseroles always go first :dunno:

My personal feeling is there is a need for churches out there to stress healthy eating for those that desire that and churches for those that don't. I have seen here where a certain way of eating is important to some people, a way that when attending other churches they may feel uncomfortable.

I attend, and have for almost 30 years, a fairly large church. We have a lot of activities that include food that those on a diet would probably not eat :)

I, myself, have organized chili cook-offs where a lot of meat and beer was involved ~ pizza/bowling nights ~ men's group lasagna...cheeesy!

Our school lunches are probably 50/50 in quality....50% what the kids want and 50% what "some" parents want ;)

When we have youth group activities or desserts after concerts and special services the food is generally mixed as far as healthy...again the less healthy the faster it goes!

Our pantry for the needy is mixed....I am guilty of bringing in those Chef BoyArdee canned meals because my $$ goes a long way when buying those....I also bring healthy soups and can veggies. The people coming in to pick the food up requests food that is not that healthy :(

Our Pastor preaches from the pulpit that God wants us to take care of ourselves from time to time but he has never told us what we should and should not eat. Common sense and education tells us that. Bigger fish to fry from the pulpit.

We don't talk much about the :devil: either at our church...he has no power over us as long as we are focused on Christ :)

EZMONEY
07-10-2010, 08:19 PM
I agree too If I could find a church like that, they could not keep me out of it. For I feel a church should not only be there for hard times but be there for you during struggles through your lives and weight gain is a big struggle. It causes so many members to have heart trouble and other illness and their bodies end up six foot under.

So true here BOOTSIE ~ The church should be doing what we can to help people with their eating issues and other issues where we fail and fall into sin that takes us away from the lives God intends for us.

But I don't feel it should come from the pulpit...I do feel it should come from the church....

WE ARE THE CHURCH! :)

At my church we can have just about any Bible study or class or someone come from the community to talk to us....

but we have to do it...it is the job that we are supposed to do in the church.

If I wanted to have a healthy eating class...I could do it at my church. If I wanted to have a cooking class for healthy food I could do it at my church :carrot:

If I wanted to have a Bible study at my church or a weight loss class or an exercise class....I could do it at my church!

Angie and I have organized walking groups in the past for example.

Here is what my wife did...she believes so much in her yoga that she went out and took over 250 hours of training....which has now grown to well over 500 hours...we spent a pretty good sum of $$$ for her to go to class and get her yoga training certificate....she has spent a tremendous amount of hours in home study for devotions to share before each yoga lesson....she devotes 3 hours every Thursday evening to our church teaching yoga as a ministry of health. She has 2 classes and it continues to grow....she has her own yoga room in our new gymnasium....everyone knows Angie's yoga room :) Of course she has to share if anyone else needs it...but Thursday eve. it is all hers :carrot:

We have had weight loss studies in the past, none now that I know of.

BOOTSIE..it can be as easy as talking another person that desires the same as you...put it in the church bulletin...and meet to discuss it....you just never know what will or won't grow in a church unless you try :hug:

Justwant2Bhealthy
07-10-2010, 10:15 PM
GARY ~ yes, you have very valid points there; I would like to see a nice mix of foods -- healthier fare for those who need and/or want it; and the popular dishes for those who want them. Most dishes can be made a bit healthier without people even noticing it, like using leaner meats and a bit less sugar and so forth.

I agree that some people still get caught up on the "sin" issue; when we are now covered by 'GRACE'. Does calling a weight issue the "sin of gluttony" make the fat go away any faster? NO! Does harping on that help me or anyone else lose weight? NO! Does focusing on the negative make a positive difference? NO!

If you keep doing the same thing, you will get the same results -- people have been harping on the "sin labeling" issue since time began; and it hasn't changed a thing. The law was given to make us aware that we are sinners; BUT IT ISN'T A CURE FOR THE SIN! Now "SIN" is just anything that falls short of the glory of GOD or His perfect goodness.

We know that weightloss issues are much more complicated than just identifying it as a "sin". There are just way too many contributing factors; one of which you referred to and that is the kinds of food we produce today for our people to eat. Some of it is healthy, and some is not.

The truth is that the healthy food doesn't taste as yummy as the "other" foods like you mentioned. Let's be honest -- people want food that tastes good. If we could make veggies taste like pizza or lasagna, maybe more people would eat them.

The grocery stores are now lined with junk aisles; when in the past that kind of food was reserved for the variety stores. Another issue is serving sizes as well -- people don't know what a serving is becuz they are served amounts that are huge or they self-serve. Many people have never been taught what a proper serving of food is, so it is no wonder they overeat.

I have seen children walking around with a 1/2 lb bag of chippies or nachos for a snack (more than they need for the whole days' calories). Why do parents and/or grandparents do this -- becuz it's cheap and quick and makes the kiddies happy.

Really, it has become a societal issue now. We as a society have to take responsibility for the health problems we have created. Our young people are being raised on food that will make them sick when they are older. We have gone crazy over ciggies, but still allow a much bigger threat to grow silently in the background.

The churches can play an important role by being part of the solution, not by condemning people. We can help them by loving them, teaching them, supporting them, and praying for them -- which is the churches' job anyways. We can be a guiding light and example instead of being part of the problem.

GARY's idea of starting a "support group" in the church is a very good one. We don't really need another bible study although the basics can help clear up some misconceptions as it has done in this thread (I hope).

What we need is prayer to ask for a healing of all the hurts and issues that are contributing to our overeating. I know for myself that this is/was "KEY" for me to lose weight and keep it off for 5 years now. I know that I am not at my goal yet, but I am still losing weight.

I have been praying and praising and singing and reciting scriptures to deal with those emotional issues that come up in my life that tempt me to eat when I am not hungry and don't need any more food. And, I need to pay attention to make sure that I am eating enuff too; sounds like a contradiction but it is not: if I don't eat enuff my body panics and sends signals to eat, eat, eat! For me, eating too much is not good, and eating too little isn't either -- I need balance (moderation is a good word). ;)

Here are my personal issues -- 1) emotional upset from the past 2) hurt feelings 3) being embarrassed or made fun of 4) being criticized by others 5) feeling unloved & unappreciated & perceptions of same 6) feeling judged 7) boredom

I have been very transparent here -- but I think if we are honest, these are truly the things that we need addressed on top of the ones I mentioned earlier, which are related to "societal conditioning".

So what is the solution? We need healing -- so we need prayer first; then we need loving, being accepted, good teaching, help (like this site), and support by loving, caring people who have that special gift. To heal the boredom issue, I am now crocheting charity blankets; it keeps my hands busy; and I am giving to and serving others as I am healing.

Sorry, I'm starting to ramble/rant a bit... but I just wanted to share some of my heartfelt thoughts; hope you don't mind! :)

EZMONEY
07-10-2010, 10:27 PM
No ramble there ROSEBUD!

I understood every word....

What you say is so true...our society....Christian and not has adopted this unhealthy lifestyle that is now showing the results in waves!

I just don't feel the church should "preach" this from the pulpit...

But I do believe we...being the church...need to address it in our congregations in ways to encourage and not condemn.

FitinTime
07-13-2010, 11:33 AM
What has helped me to understand the OT is to do as Paul tells Timothy(2 Tim 2:15), . .to rightly divide the word of truth. Which means, we need to separate what was said, to whom it was spoken to, during what circumstance and at what time.
Though all scripture is for our learning and understanding, not all scripture is for us. Romans 15:4
Once we come to understand what is meant for us, which are all of Pauls epistles. . Romans thru Philemon, we will not be confused or fearful because Paul teaches to us believers in the Body of Christ. Paul was made the Apostle to the Gentiles to preach the gospel of grace which someone on here touched on in the first page.
God said that every creature is good to eat, if received with thanksgiving. 1 Timothy 4:4.

We don't follow what God put in place for Israel. That's where churches get their rules and regulations. We are NOT under the LAW, but UNDER GRACE. And we are under the dispensation of grace as our risen Lord gave Paul many revelations pertaining to believers. It would behoove us to study his epistles and understand clearly what the bible says.
I know for me, when I came to understand this, it has made reading the bible so easy now. I know what is for me and what is not. . and what is just for my understanding. ;)

Justwant2Bhealthy
07-13-2010, 04:35 PM
RIGHT ON ... DIANA ... I agree! :D

joyful retiree
07-14-2010, 09:09 AM
Diana,

Thank you for stating so clearly my own beliefs. It seems to me,also, that Paul's letter to the Galatians is a special warning to not put ourselves under the law again, now that we are under Grace.

jigglefree
07-14-2010, 10:03 AM
Very interesting conversation. I lurk around this thread a lot but rarely post. In regards to Men and Women of God preaching on health as opposed to gluttony, thankfully my Pastor and his wife teaches that often. We even have an outreach group that helps members dealing with health and weight issues. The church I attend is a "mega" church so no potlucks for us. We do have a gym on campus as well as a cafe and the food served is all healthy choices. My schedule does not permit me to participate in the activities but I did at one time. I appreciate my Pastor in that there is something for about everyone and where they are in life. As for the eating of this or that, I find what Paul said would apply in any situation...all things are permissable but not all things are convenient for me. Which is how I conduct my life. If you like it I love it. We should seek to love as God loves and allow others to observe/worship/commit as they decide.

The original question about the Old Testament. It was for me a lesson on God's Love, Faithfulness, Grace, Power and Unwillingness to give up on man. Understanding when He made a promise/gave His word nothing would stop Him from making it good. Knowing that above all He can be TRUSTED. I usually read the KJV because it's what I grew up on but when I'm STUDYING, I use the KJV, AMP and NLV. If you are using the KJV and having trouble go to crosswalk.com or biblegateway.com and read different translations. You should be able to find a translation that you understand and is easier reading for you. I have several translations on my iPod Touch as well as my Blackberry. The the Word is always within arm's reach and in my heart.

Bootsie
07-14-2010, 11:40 PM
How do I know in a situation when I have two options which way does God want me to go?

EZMONEY
07-15-2010, 12:39 AM
How do I know in a situation when I have two options which way does God want me to go?

:) Bootsie as we go through life each day we are faced with choices. Sometimes we make the wrong one today but through growth in His Word it helps us to make a better one tomorrow.

When we reach a Y in the road of life not every choice is necessarily a right and a wrong one. God teaches us as we follow, looking to Him for guidance and prayer.

Pray for guidance, use the common sense he gave you and go forward, knowing that each step of the way He is with you....

He isn't grading you ;)

carolr3639
07-15-2010, 04:48 PM
Didn't god design our bodies not to lose weight? He designed them to stay alive during famine and our metabolism would slow down so we could live. Isn't a diet kind of a famine? Didn't he give us hunger and satisfaction for a reason? And now we can't trust them. God's ways are always best.

Justwant2Bhealthy
07-16-2010, 12:32 AM
CAROL ~ I think that is very true ... I mentioned something relating to that somewhere to someone (maybe in another thread) -- while there are many people in this world starving from lack of food; we are dieting or starving ourselves to lose weight. I am trying not to cut my food too low, as I have mentioned before; just trying to make healthier choices about what and how much I eat. Over the years, we dieted becuz that is what the doctors and experts told us to do; now I am not so sure they were right.

I was told recently that some of us have a genetic quirk where our bodies don't listen anymore; and also read that we have literally become "over-efficient fat-making machines" ... from being deprived or starved or dieting, or whatever we want to call it. I suppose this will be a long-standing debate until we find out from GOD some day where we went wrong.

Some say just cut back on how much you eat; others say change what you eat; and still another says, change what you eat and cut down too. No wonder we get confused and don't know what to do. The scriptures say that is not from GOD; for GOD is not a GOD of confusion, but of peace ... (see 1st Corinthians 14:33)

I'm trying to find some "balance" on middle-ground somewhere, so I am trying to eat as healthy as I can -- and for me that means: not too much and not too little, of good healthy foods; and the other part, is to keep as busy as I can, getting some exercise of any kind, each and every day.

I want to enjoy this life too; and I believe GOD wants us to as well. There are comments like that all over the scriptures, some of which I posted in the thread about "Encouraging Scriptures".


BOOTSIE ~ good advice there from Gary -- I also ask GOD to specifically tell me which one NOT TO DO ... asking the Holy Spirit to confirm in my heart and mind which one isn't the best choice. I find asking from that perspective is easier for me to sense the direction from GOD. Everyone is different, but that works best for me. Sometimes, I even ask Him to give me a sign of some kind or put a fleece out like Gideon did (he asked GOD to give him a sign 3 x times to confirm something for him).