100 lb. Club - That 'conversation' with yourself in your head...




Beverlyjoy
07-05-2010, 11:31 AM
I read something that is really sticking with me. It basically said: The next time you have the urge to eat something unplanned, notice what is going through your mind. It is often a discussion or conflict with yourself about it. (Should I eat this or not..just one bite....this little bit won't count....I can make up for this later, etc) It's a way of 'fooling yourself.'

I have been thinking about those 'conversations'. It is so true. It the first indication that eating that unplanned food isn't really in my best interest.

This has actually been helpful to me. Thought I'd share.

In a 'perfect world' the day to day facing of unplanned/tempting food wouldn't be an issue. But, it is there for all of us whether we are losing or maintaining.

Do you ever have that 'conversation' with yourself?


KimL1214
07-05-2010, 11:43 AM
Every day, every time I see something to do with food. It's always an argument with myself and has been ending poorly over the last few days, but I plan on changing that soon (TODAY, AGAIN)!

catherinef
07-05-2010, 11:46 AM
Oh, gosh, all the time. It does get way easier, though, as I go along, and I'm able to quell my non-helpful food urges with relatively little effort. Usually just reminding myself that remorse has an awful aftertaste is enough to get me to move on to something else.


Rosinante
07-05-2010, 11:52 AM
I vary between not needing the conversation (Last 42 days) and having a voice in my head shouting, "I'm angry. Feed me!" (today)

I keep asking the voice why I'm angry but I can't work it out. At least I've been able to keep telling it that food is not the answer.....

mj5
07-05-2010, 02:31 PM
Unfortunately, I know this little voice all too well....for me, it is less about food and more about talking myself out of exercising "it won't matter if you miss today....it's just one day" and if that were true, one day wouldn't be a big deal. For me, though, one day all too easily leads to two then three....yea, NOT good!!!

ubergirl
07-05-2010, 02:47 PM
Interesting question....

The single most interesting thing I learned along my journey was something I read in the book The End of Overeating by David Kessler. He was talking about "the conversation" and he said that once you enter into the "should I or shouldn't I" dialogue with yourself then the battle is pretty much lost.

Well, for me, these were the "right words at the right time." I got myself morbidly obese singing the "should I or shouldn't I?" song.

He was right. As soon as I asked myself the question, there was more than a fifty percent chance (probably upwards of a 90% chance) that the answer would end up being me eating the thing.... and if I chose not to eat it, the little voice got louder and louder until it was screaming EAT ME NOW OR I'LL MAKE YOUR LIFE MISERABLE!!!!

So, for the me, the "solution" was to answer the question NO before the question got asked. No reason to ask "should I or shouldn't I eat one piece of candy from the break room table" because the answer was planned in advance to be NO one hundred per cent of the time. Crazy, simplistic, and yet brilliant. YMMV, but it worked *for me.* I NEVER would have believed that this was true, but now if there is candy on the break room table, most of the time I don't even see it.

Now, "the conversation" terrifies me, and I've programmed myself to recognize it and shut it off.

The rest of time I just know that there is no point in asking myself, because the answer is always the same: I just don't eat that stuff.

kallismom
07-05-2010, 08:27 PM
I've been having that conversation for so many years. I've only recently started telling her to shut up!

midwife
07-05-2010, 10:55 PM
Interesting question....

The single most interesting thing I learned along my journey was something I read in the book The End of Overeating by David Kessler. He was talking about "the conversation" and he said that once you enter into the "should I or shouldn't I" dialogue with yourself then the battle is pretty much lost.



Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. If I start the negotiations or rationalization, it's all over.

kendra
07-05-2010, 11:05 PM
Yep I've had the conversation, although not as much now. Most of the time I ask myself do I really want whatever it is? How many calories are in it and is it really worth it? How much other food could i have for the same amount of calories? By this time, i don't even want the stuff.

Loving Me
07-06-2010, 03:19 AM
Most of the time I don't allow myself to get into the conversation, but it does still happy occasionally, like this last Sunday. I'd had my planned treats on Saturday and was determined it wasn't going to turn into a 24-36hr binge like the last few weeks. But then Sunday afternoon I desparately wanted chocolate and the conversation started. I'm happy to say though that I just told myself "no", you've had your treats, you'll have to wait til next week, you are NOT going to blow another weekend and spend all week playing catch up. AND IT WORKED!!!

rockinrobin
07-06-2010, 06:53 AM
Oh my gosh, I've said this soooo many times - making definite no's, took away that "should I?/shouldn't I" equation that ALWAYS led to disaster. Once I made certain foods off limits, that was it. It was no longer an option TO eat it. That's what I HAD to do. I had to make those definite no's. I had to put roadblocks in place to ban/stop that little voice in my head, "just this once, one bite won't hurt?." But it does. Because one bite leads to two leads to ten. Just this once, just one bite I have FINALLY learned is NOT a good strategy. It took me decades to figure that out. I had to stop having that dialogue in my head - that's where my definite no's came into play, my counting of calories, my pre-planning my foods, my you write it BEFORE you bite it all came into play.

I hear all the time around here how restriction is not a good thing and, how people feel deprived if they can't have something, and everything in moderation, and people saying that once they tell themselves they can't have something, they then want it more. I never understood that, because *for me*, making those rules, setting those boundaries was the key to ending that dialogue (for the most part). And even if I did have it initially (and still occasionally) I had a real good way to answer it and turn it off.

saef
07-06-2010, 08:32 AM
Ubergirl wrote:
... [F]or the me, the "solution" was to answer the question NO before the question got asked. No reason to ask "should I or shouldn't I eat one piece of candy from the break room table" because the answer was planned in advance to be NO one hundred per cent of the time. [Snip] Now, "the conversation" terrifies me, and I've programmed myself to recognize it and shut it off.


Robin wrote:
I hear all the time around here how restriction is not a good thing and, how people feel deprived if they can't have something, and everything in moderation, and people saying that once they tell themselves they can't have something, they then want it more. I never understood that, because *for me*, making those rules, setting those boundaries was the key to ending that dialogue (for the most part).

Thank you, both of you, for describing a strategy that applies to me, and also the reasons for following it. For me, "denying myself" -- I don't even like that language, since it sounds so authoritative & self-abusing; I'd really prefer "choosing not to partake" -- does not lead to this incredible pent-up desire that finally explodes in an uncontrollable binge. I have dealt with binge eating disorder & I know its limits now. Time & patience wears it out. I'm not still thinking about what I didn't eat for days afterward. After a time, my mind moves onto other things.

Look, there are a lot of other things in life I can't have or can't immediately indulge myself in. I just know they'e not for me. Travel sections in magazines & newspapers show gorgeous landscapes -- and I can't drop everything & fly off there immediately. Saying "no" doesn't lead me to an eventual travel binge. The NY Times has gorgeous ads on the weekend for new clothes in the dep't stores & for jewelry. I am pretty much always saying "no" to that $895 Bloomingdale's dress and that Tiffany's $2,500 pair of earrings. It doesn't mean I go off & binge on Target clothes or buy up all the beaded craft earrings on Etsy. So why is food so special & so dangerous that simply accepting that some things are basically unaffordable to me -- for calories or for health reasons, rather than in cost -- that "depriving myself" of it is the worst possible thing I could do to myself? I don't get it.

That voice is always scanning the landscape, wanting things. And it's not just food. And I'm often having to tell it "no" as it never thinks of consequences, to my body, to my bank account, to my credit cards, etc. It's part of being an adult.

time2lose
07-06-2010, 09:25 AM
Robin originally posted I hear all the time around here how restriction is not a good thing and, how people feel deprived if they can't have something, and everything in moderation, and people saying that once they tell themselves they can't have something, they then want it more. I never understood that, because *for me*, making those rules, setting those boundaries was the key to ending that dialogue (for the most part). And even if I did have it initially (and still occasionally) I had a real good way to answer it and turn it off.

Recently, I fell for the "moderation" way of thinking. It took awhile, but I started listening to those who champion moderation. I got to thinking that now that I have lost so much weight that I should learn how to eat treats in moderation. This past weekend, while at my parents', I decided that I could eat some cake or blueberry cobbler "in moderation". What happened? The "conversation" started in my head and I couldn't stop eating. This was the first time this has happened in about 18 months. Then I has sugar carvings all day yesterday. This morning the vending machine is calling me after all this time. I am going through sugar detox AGAIN.

Lesson learned........AGAIN. Next time I am telling that dang voice, "I don't eat that PERIOD!! So just hush!"

I am a sugar addict. Just like an alcoholic can't have alcohol in moderation, I can't have sugar in moderation. It is just a simple fact.

Beverlyjoy
07-06-2010, 09:40 AM
I have gotten so much from what you folks have shared about 'conversations we have in our head'. I just knew you would. You are all very insightful. Thanks.

ubergirl
07-06-2010, 09:55 AM
I hear all the time around here how restriction is not a good thing and, how people feel deprived if they can't have something, and everything in moderation, and people saying that once they tell themselves they can't have something, they then want it more.

I have to say that I spent more than 20 years CONVINCED that this applied to me.... I thought that because I was a binge eater I simply could not control myself, no matter how badly I wanted to, and that restricting led to binging, therefore I could not restrict-- this led to twenty straight years of gains and I ended up weighing almost 300lbs.

Looking back, this was a very destructive and yet self-serving belief....OF COURSE I could control myself. And the hint that I finally really examined was when I realized that I could have binge-type food lying around right under my nose and not touch it IF I thought of the food as "off limits".

Let's say, for example, I bought I birthday cake for my daughter's bday party. Cake, frosting... BINGE FOOD. Did I uncontrollably grab it off the counter and wolf half of it down before the party? Of course not! Did I find it almost impossible to resist AFTER the party. Yes. Would I ever eat the last slice that she was saving for herself? NEVER. And the same goes for many other things....I bag of chocolate chips that I need to make cookies for a field trip-- off limits-- an open bag of chocolate chips sitting in the cupboard: fair game.

See what I'm getting at? We CAN and DO control ourselves around food all the time.....it's when we leave that door open a crack and we offer ourselves the possibility, and it's a CHOICE: immediate pleasure (eat it) vs. uncertain possible long term reward (don't eat it) well, me, in the past, I always went for the immediate hit of pleasure.

Now, I don't think that everyone is a binge eater, and techniques for weight loss seem to really differ depending on the factors that made you obese in the first place.... but for the group who gets sucked into the whole should I or shouldn't I debate-- I think making definite NO's seems to work well.

catherinef
07-06-2010, 10:05 AM
I should add that, yes, there are things that are very much Off Limits to me, and I agree that this has made all the difference. I'm thinking more of the fact that my eyes see the cupcakes, my brain registers the desire, and then I shut it down right away. "I don't eat those. When I used to eat those, I felt awful afterward. Those are not worth it." It's not so much that I'm fighting temptation all that much anymore as it is I'm constantly reinforcing the reasons why I don't eat my trigger foods.

Trazey34
07-06-2010, 10:59 AM
Finally having the conversatons SAVED MY LIFE!!! for so many years, the little voice would pop up with "might as well eat the rest of the cheesecake" and i'd do it, no questions asked. Now i say "WHY?" I think about it, and 99% of the time tell the little spoiled snot inside to sit down and shut the f**k up LOL I love telling her to shut it! heheheeh She knows who's boss now, but I still like to talk to her! Keeps me honest and mindful.

rockinrobin
07-06-2010, 04:42 PM
I have to say that I spent more than 20 years CONVINCED that this applied to me.... I thought that because I was a binge eater I simply could not control myself, no matter how badly I wanted to, and that restricting led to binging, therefore I could not restrict-- this led to twenty straight years of gains and I ended up weighing almost 300lbs.

Looking back, this was a very destructive and yet self-serving belief....OF COURSE I could control myself. And the hint that I finally really examined was when I realized that I could have binge-type food lying around right under my nose and not touch it IF I thought of the food as "off limits".

Let's say, for example, I bought I birthday cake for my daughter's bday party. Cake, frosting... BINGE FOOD. Did I uncontrollably grab it off the counter and wolf half of it down before the party? Of course not! Did I find it almost impossible to resist AFTER the party. Yes. Would I ever eat the last slice that she was saving for herself? NEVER. And the same goes for many other things....I bag of chocolate chips that I need to make cookies for a field trip-- off limits-- an open bag of chocolate chips sitting in the cupboard: fair game.

See what I'm getting at? We CAN and DO control ourselves around food all the time.....it's when we leave that door open a crack and we offer ourselves the possibility, and it's a CHOICE: immediate pleasure (eat it) vs. uncertain possible long term reward (don't eat it) well, me, in the past, I always went for the immediate hit of pleasure.

Now, I don't think that everyone is a binge eater, and techniques for weight loss seem to really differ depending on the factors that made you obese in the first place.... but for the group who gets sucked into the whole should I or shouldn't I debate-- I think making definite NO's seems to work well.

Oh my goodness. I could have written this post.

When I spoke of people here who think such and such - well for sure I was one of the people. For sure. I too believed there was no other way. I mean, after all, one has to live, doesn't one? No way on earth you can stay away from those foods. But I kept going wrong some where. Something wasn't right. I'd have the one bite, this one time and, and, and, and 20 something years later I was still super morbidly obese. Helllooooo - maybe I wasn't doing the just one bite thing wrong, maybe IT was wrong.

Loved, loved, loved your birthday cake scenario. It is SO true. I've experienced it hundreds of times over the years. If the food was earmarked for something/someone else - I wouldn't dream of touching it. It wasn't mine, it wasn't intended for me, it wasn't earmarked for me. It WAS a definite no-no. Totally off limits to me. And I refrained.

I hope you don't think it's too weird if I tell you this - what the heck - here goes - I love and adore you. Really. ;)

jendiet
07-09-2010, 07:02 PM
hmm, i agree with alot of points on here. I guess I can look at both sides. Because I completely cut out processed sweets out of my diet for 2 years. I only ate organic food. The only bread i touched was Ezekiel bread. While I was in the throws of this type of eating I ignored birthday cake, i ignored all other types of goodies, or else i just substituted it for something else.

Then one night--i snapped. I was working at a convenience store, and during a loll-I bought myself a nutter buddy bar. The chocolate was so smooth, the pb so tasty. The crispy wafer so delectable! I thought it was the best thing i tasted in a while. I waited til after my shift was up and I bought three more. These things are fattening. Even before I changed to such a healthy lifestyle i would never buy packs of them, and I would never eat them more than maybe once a month! But i ate 4 that night. It was so eye opening.

I don't know if it is because I moved out of the state where I could always find organic foods, and vegan fare to a state that was all about fried chicken, and fried okra, and fried everything, and home made cooking...and all that. Where my lifestyle was so STRANGE. But i really just snapped that night in 2002. i gave up the EXREMELY VEGAN/ORGANIC lifestyle, and just went with the flow after that, if it was available I ate it! If I wanted it, i ate it. Alot of times, i felt so guilty about buying a cake to have a slice, i would eat the whole thing as a means to get rid of it faster! that's insane I know, but i did it.

I gained from 135-140 to 196 by 2005.

I thought there was no way i could ever try to LIMIT myself from eating junk again, because I would just snap. But thankfully I have my past of keeping a food journal when I was a teenager. I was 145 lbs. Not super skinny, very muscular and fit. I ate everything in moderation. And it worked for me. I also worked out by running/jogging, swimming and my own home weight routine.

Where had i gone on the "all or nothing" binge that makes me feel secure again? I know what day. It was back in 2000. I figured everyone had it wrong. So if I was completely opposite, I would be right. I refused to eat what everyone else was eating because they had to be completely wrong! Well, that kind of attitude and mindset caused me to become kind of pompous about food.

like "how could you put that toxin in your body, you should eat like me" pompous. I didn't realize it, but at every outing, every barbeque, every meal....I had that attitude. I felt empowered, i felt extraordinary, and it showed. People would always try to offer me that "yucky food" and I would turn it down in a heartbeat. Feeling very deeply "it's wrong!"

I didn't realize, and I often have a VERY HARD time realizing THERE IS MIDDLE GROUND. I know what works for one doesn't work for others--or whatever, but the people that i really look up to , the people i have seen it work for, are the celebrities that you never see in the tabloids about their newest diet, or the people that you never see in the tabloids about their bad bodies. It is people like Sandra Bullock i look up to. Sandra has an amazing plan. She also used to be chubby and she also admits to being a carb addict. But she realizes her limitations. She eats healthy every day. Makes good food choices, but ONE day, and that is her cheat day. She never regrets it, she doesn't extend it...it's hers.

for me, i have to REALIZE there is middle ground and stay on middle ground, or I bounce from one extreme to another. Eat the WHOLE CAKE, or EAT NO CAKE. What is it in me, that doesn't understand, you can choose a different option. Eat ONE SMALL SLICE of cake if it is available and you want it. One slice is not going to end the world.

So having been at both extremes. NO CAKE--50 lbs lighter--but miserable, and kind of pompous if you ask me. To WHOLE CAKE. 50 lbs heavier, and miserable, but a pushover. To "I'll take a small slice please". I feel more empowered, not cowering under a RESTRICTIVE LIFESTYLE that makes it obvious i'm not going to eat any cake, and not riding along on an overly permissive lifestyle that sees eating the WHOLE cake as a means to get rid of the darn thing. But as an empowered, enlightened person, that realizes I can have one slice of cake, and that can REALLY be all I need or want. And it won't make me gain, because I am in control of my calorie intake. I like the middle ground personally. But i have experience on both of the other sides.

mandisa
07-09-2010, 08:32 PM
Oh boy, I've had this conversation so many times.I'm still trying to learn how to say no and stick to that no.I guess the idea that I'm in control of what I eat just hasn't sunk all the way in.

sept15lija
07-10-2010, 12:20 PM
I'll really have to think about this one. I've lost substantially before, I was 280 and got down to about 190, and then I had two babies in just over 2 years and now here I am at 224. When I was losing before, I still had things that probably others would say no to. Once in a while, I saved my calories and ate something that I desire occasionally, such as pizza or cake or cookies. And it worked fine for me - it never led to a binge or going off plan (I was never off plan, because my plan was calorie counting). It definitely wasn't nutritious that day, as I would skimp in order to have my treat, but oh well. I am using the same plan this time around and so far I haven't felt it worth it to have a treat, but I know one day I will. I just need to really think about it and watch my eating for a few days after to make sure it doesn't actually affect me or my plan, but I really think I'm a person who can do it and still lose weight consistently, and stay on plan.