100 lb. Club - People telling me I'm not Fat!




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FitGirlyGirl
07-03-2010, 01:04 AM
This is one thing that really bothers me. The world we live in is so skewed that nobody recognizes a healthy weight/size anymore. I am so bothered when people argue with me about whether or not I am fat and whether or not I need to lose more weight. This has been happening to me for quite some time, but tonight it really has me annoyed. I got in this argument with one of my friends - he and I have had the argument many times. He decided to tell me tonight that I should listen to him because he's younger than me and since young people are more shallow about such things if he says I'm not fat then I'm not. That p*$$ed me off!:mad: I told him that I'll listen to my docs if it's all the same to him! I have a couple of friends that I have this argument with every time I see them, but I can understand because they are both very much in need of weight loss and not doing anything about it, so to admit that I (much smaller than either of them) am fat would be horrible for them. The boy though is thin, no he's not stick skinny, but he's thin. WTF? Does anyone understand this? Does anyone have any advice about what to say to these people? I have tried explaining that when I call myself fat I do not mean to insult myself or anything like that. For me it is just a descriptor, like being a woman or a brunette or married or whatever. It is a descriptor that I am currently changing, but it's still just a descriptor and sometimes I change my hair color too, so there!


Rosinante
07-03-2010, 02:35 AM
The people who know us can seem very odd about our weight but it is often hard for them, when they've seen us at our biggest and watched us lose a lot. Congratulations on the 78, by the way!

I say the following as another five two-er but one who'd give a lot to make it back to your 167 - you're right, you're still fat (I also use the term as a descriptor, without emotional load) and people trying to stop you are not helping.

Although Take the Praise about how good you're looking!

I had the same thing a few years ago when I lost a lot but didn't quite get down to target. I would recommend two things:
1. Tell them that your health is improving but for optimum health your doctor has advised that you lose some more. Thankyou for their interest.
2. Don't do what I did at 136 and 'Settle'. One minute I was comfortable, 6 years later I was 215.

Grit your teeth, smile and go on!

Did I say congratulations on the 78! You've done an amazing job!

Arctic Mama
07-03-2010, 02:55 AM
See, and I am the same height as both of you and look super sexy at 165ish, and also extremely healthy. I am curvy, muscular, and don't have a lot of excess flab that looks icky.

I am still overweight by maybe ten to twenty pounds at that weight, but far from fat. So body type and distribution also plays a big role in how one looks at each weight. They are mentally comparing you to a much heavier you, so for them you ARE skinny, comparably. I don't think they are trying to cut you down, they are more likely trying to compliment your hard work and express their satisfaction with how great you look. You can continue losing as much weight as you feel you need to without their blessing on it, I wouldn't look st their comments as condemnation of losing too much but rather as an affirmation of your hard work thus far.

Its all in how you look at it :)


Shmead
07-03-2010, 09:00 AM
Quit calling yourself fat. You may MEAN it as a neutral term, but your friends--who know you pretty well--are hearing something else in your voice, some degree of self-hate that bothers them. So quit it. Say "I'd still like to lose some weight" or "I'm still working on a healthy BMI" or "I really want to be slender", but don't call yourself fat in front of your friends. It bothers them, and why would you pick a word that makes them uncomfortable?

Also, lots of boys have learned that ANYTIME a woman says anything negative about themselves, the boy is supposed to jump in and deny it. Lost of women fish for compliments in exactly this way--how is he supposed to know that you aren't one of them? He may well think you'd go home and cry if you called yourself "fat" and no one argued!

And, honestly, the opposite can be just as painful. I was at a party the other day thinking I looked pretty good--I've lost 125+ pounds, for heaven's sake--and a friend's husband, who I hadn't seen in months and months, told me I looked great and to "keep going!". I do want to lose another 25, but part if me was just like "When is enough enough for you people?" Weeks later, that remark is still bothering me.

Rosinante
07-03-2010, 10:01 AM
Respectfully, I would suggest that those of who are fat continue to promote an attitude that shows we're not being self-condemnatory. We need to challenge society's disgraceful attitude to fat, and I am, I am the apple to end all apples, not collude with it by accepting their negative stereotypes.

I still think it's a pity OP has to keep doing this though, although I'm quite sure her friends' comments are kindly meant.

And her 78lbs is fanbloomintastic!

sept15lija
07-03-2010, 10:10 AM
I have no doubt your friends are just trying to make you feel good, and probably do hear something negative in the way you say fat, or even in the word, I mean obviously that word has a lot of negative connotations to it in society. I too look at it as a descriptor most of the time, but have also used it in a self-condemning way. However it is a fact that I am fat! :) They probably feel duty bound to argue with you even though they know how you view the word. Perhaps you should just not try to use it in their presence since they can't handle it.

MablesGirl
07-03-2010, 10:31 AM
guilty as charged. I have friends that are much thinner than I am, and most of them are in the normal BMI range. When they talk about their fat rolls I want to SMACK THEM UP SIDE THE HEAD. I understand, in a way, that they too are not 100% happy with their body and see things they want to change. But I'm sitting beside them wondering what they must think of me when I weigh 100 pounds more than them. How do they view my fat rolls? And maybe, the OP's friends think the same thing.

There is no "fat" BMI category - normal / overweight / obese / morbidly obese. You could say "my weight still puts me in the overweight category". Maybe that will eliminate the negative connotations about the word fat. And it does seem like a more factual description, rather than judgemental.

my two cents only. But congratulations on your 78 pounds lost! that is awesome.

FitGirlyGirl
07-03-2010, 12:45 PM
Shmead, I have to respectfully disagree. I should be able to use any word I want about my own body. It is not my fault if they have some distorted definition of the word. These 3 particular individuals argue with me whether or not I use the word "fat" anyhow, so it's not a word problem. What started the argument with the boy yesterday was that when he asked what I'd been doing I answered honestly and told him "exercising". His response was "why?" and it just got worse from there.


In some cases I know it is just that I look smaller to people than I have ever looked to them and so they can see that I am skinnier and for them that turns into skinny. It still annoys me, but I have explained to those people and they have mostly stopped. That's not the case with these guys though since I was already down to 175-180 when I met them. With the boy (he's 19, thin, and healthy) I at first thought it was just that he thought I thought I was unattractive. I have tried explaining that I don't think that, now I'm not really sure why he argues with me. It is going to put a strain on my friendship with these people because it is ALL THE TIME. I want to be able to be friends with them, but I don't know how to make them stop arguing with me. They know I have to lose weight for health reasons (I was diagnosed with diabetes last July). I don't bring it up with them except to answer questions. (What are you doing? Do you want these cookie? Why not? Why don't you want to go to that restaurant with us? Will this shirt fit you? What will you eat if we have a cookout? Why don't you sit down? - Those are all questions that have started the argument with them.) I just don't know what else to do.

Trazey34
07-03-2010, 12:51 PM
I think too, that compared to what we USED to look like, we ARE skinny now lol, it's weird but perceptions are hard to change.

No one ever believed me when i said i was over 300 lbs, even the doctor weighed me 3 or 4 times lol cuz i HID it well (ha, not THAT well, if you know what i mean) so i was always heavier than i looked -- to say i wanted to lose 50 more pounds people are like "NOOOooo you'll be anorexic!!" HA, I always smile and say "weight is deceiving, and this extra padding is comin' off. Don't worry i still weigh more than MIKE TYSON (at the time!) " hahaha DOn't get upset about stupid stuff like that -- other people don't make us fat or thin, WE DO. Just go about your business, be healthy and happy and don't engage in those conversations if it upsets you -- just be you :D

Eliana
07-03-2010, 02:09 PM
I whole heartedly agree with Shmead, so you'll have to respectfully disagree with me too. ;) It just shows how differently people think, I guess. I think instead of calling yourself "fat" perhaps you could say "I have fat". There's a big difference.

Plus, I have to wonder who's bringing this up all the time? Is it them, or you? It seems odd that someone is that focused on your weight all the time. My two girlfriends and I talk about weight all the time, but all three of us losing at present. The rest of the world brings it up every time we see each other, but the conversation is over after 2-3 exchanges, max. I try not to engage in weight related discussions.

Regardless, I'm so glad you're comfortable with your body as is right now, even though you're still losing the fat. I'm the same way. I've switched from "I'm fat" (whole body) to "Gee, my legs are fat" or "Ugh, my arms are fat". :) It's been a long time since I noticed any particular fat! LOL! (With the exception of my rear...the rear started off so enormous that anything in comparison is TINY and I'm thrilled. :rofl:)

JessLess
07-03-2010, 02:38 PM
You might want to say, pleasantly of course, that you are losing weight for yourself. Not your friends or for any other reason.

I think calling yourself fat is fine if you are comfortable with the term. I'm a fat rights advocate. When we reclaim words like "fat" or "queer," in my opinion, they lose the negative implications that other people have put on them.

MissKelly
07-03-2010, 03:39 PM
I'm like you, Fitgirly...I call it fat. It is what it is...I'm not into camouflaging things. Fat by any other name..is still the same. For those around you that cannot understand or accept, if its leading to an argument, I'd just modify terms so they can wrap their head around it & say that you just want to be out of the overweight BMI category range.

I have a male friend whose expressions you can literally see fall into a little shock when I call myself fat. I just giggle & say, "it is what it is." My fat..I own it, I burn it. ;)

kaplods
07-03-2010, 03:43 PM
I whole heartedly agree with Shmead, so you'll have to respectfully disagree with me too. ;) It just shows how differently people think, I guess. I think instead of calling yourself "fat" perhaps you could say "I have fat". There's a big difference.


By that logic, tall people should say "I have height," and short people "I lack height?"

Hmmm, "lacking" seems to imply a negative judgement so maybe the latter should be replaces with "I have shortness?"

I prefer the "I am (adjective)" format: I am creative. I am intelligent. I am outgoing. I am compassionate. I am passionate. I am caring. I am loud. I am boisterous. I am funny. I am rarely quiet. I am fat - very fat.

All of my adjectives combine to make me freakishly fabulous, and being fat doesn't diminish that fabulosity in the least.


I think the crime has to be taken out of being fat. And my small contribution to that cause is to use the word fat as if it were no more or less an insult than tall, blonde, slim, slender, pale, freckled, intelligent, friendly.....

I do use it only for myself (unless I have permission to use it by someone who believes as I do), but I share that belief as often as I can.

When people tell me not to use the word because it's "mean." I say "no, it's not mean. I refuse to see or use the word as an insult. I am fat - you are tall (or whatever adjective they are)."

I explain why I use and embrace the word (and why I hate euphemisms, most especially the word "fluffy.")


and so I'll sign off as the name my father lovingly gave me and continues to use (which I edited when I came on to this site, because I didn't think people would understand)


Fat Kaplods,

dragonwoman64
07-03-2010, 03:43 PM
maybe the guy likes big women. I had a guy tell ME once "don't lose your curves!" (which almost caused me heart failure from disbelief). maybe your friend looks at different sized women differently because of that. Bottom line, it's your body. How you feel comfortable looks and healthwise is what's important.

hey, if a young, thin guy is telling you you're not fat, I say don't argue, enjoy the comments, smile and laugh, and continue doing whatever you want to do.

Eliana
07-03-2010, 03:55 PM
By that logic, tall people should say "I have height," and short people "I lack height?"

Hmmm, "lacking" seems to imply a negative judgement so maybe the latter should be replaces with "I have shortness?"

I prefer the "I am (adjective)" format: I am creative. I am intelligent. I am outgoing. I am compassionate. I am passionate. I am caring. I am loud. I am boisterous. I am funny. I am rarely quiet. I am fat - very fat.


Perhaps it's in my education: I say "people with disabilities" not "disabled people". I say "a child with a learning disability" rather than "a learning disabled child". It's all in the way most of the world views those words in that combination, right or wrong.

In your statement "I am creative", it says a lot. It makes you what you are. Your being can be described as "creative'. To say "I am fat" to me sounds like you, your very soul, the essence of who you are...is fat. How sad. I'm just saying that's how many people take those words and it's why our friends and loved ones wince when they hear it.

"I" am not fat and frankly never have been. "I" have always been thin inside all this fat. :D

Just saying...:)

MissKelly
07-03-2010, 04:39 PM
I think the crime has to be taken out of being fat. And my small contribution to that cause is to use the word fat as if it were no more or less an insult than tall, blonde, slim, slender, pale, freckled, intelligent, friendly.....


Beautifully said. I agree with you. I think there is an even bigger crime in those who coddle. Coddling is enabling. I feel that not acknowledging the word "fat" is a form of denial. IMO, who cares about being "politically correct"...it exists. Obesity is on the rise & so is coddling. One has to stop (coddling) to prevent the other. In the end, both kill.

When at 308lbs, I believed I ONLY had 40lbs to lose & considered myself "a few extra pounds" overweight....I did not wake up & snap to until someone called me FAT. It was then that the "fun house mirror" in my bathroom shattered. Today, I ask my coddlers why in the world they did not help me to see what they did. I ballooned up in 2 YEARS...sure they saw it...I had been thin my whole life they knew me thin at 150. Perhaps in my situation, I may feel more disgust with the issue of skirting around the word. I feel very strongly about it. As much as there's icky stigma with the word "fat"...it can save lives. It hurt me very much hearing it (I cried & cried like a baby!!)..but it saved mine.

Don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting to go around as some crusader calling people fat...lol....I think you understand the gist of my message....I just believe from my experience that LESS coddling = less obesity.

Ok. I am done with my rant...I've wanted to get that off my chest for a while now! :)

astrophe
07-03-2010, 09:27 PM
Well, they can't argue with you if you don't engage or explain. There's nobody left to argue with if you are not participating.

I want to be able to be friends with them, but I don't know how to make them stop arguing with me. They know I have to lose weight for health reasons (I was diagnosed with diabetes last July).

Can't you just say "Diabetes" and leave it at that? Why get deeper into it?

"Why do you exercise?" Diabetes.

"Want a cookie? " No, diabetes.

Sounds like the short and sweet answer to me.

GL!
A.

FitGirlyGirl
07-03-2010, 10:50 PM
Eliana - Yes, I will have to disagree. As I said, I do try not to talk to them about it, but when I answer questions honestly it starts an argument. I’m not going to lie and tell them I was somewhere else if I was at the gym or come up with some sort of crazy allergies to the foods they want me to eat. As for it being about education, I have a BS in elementary education. Even with my education, I am fat. I am blue-eyed. I am pale. I am female. I am married. I am part Native American. I am Pagan. I am friendly. I am diabetic. My father is handicapped. Those are the facts. My father would be profoundly annoyed if someone told him he was a person with a hearing disability or some other such PC something. He would correct them and say he was deaf. I am not a person with fat. I am fat. I refuse to bow to the PC BS.

JessLess - Thank you. I also refuse to shy away from other such words. I tend to call myself a “half dyke”, for instance.

Kaplods - that’s exactly how I feel about it. I, however, don’t wait for other’s permission. If someone is fat they are fat.

MissKelly - I am totally with you on not coddling people. Vanity sizes are a big issue with me. So is the term pre-diabetes. I feel the same way about other things, not just fat - smoking, alcohol abuse, staying in an abusive relationship, and on and on. I think people baby each other entirely too much.

Astrophe - While I have told them that I was diagnosed as diabetic I have not tried just answering every question of that type with the word diabetes. I'll have to give it a try. One of them is also diabetic, completely uncontrolled and not planning on doing anything about it, so not sure it will work on him, but of the three he is the one that argues with me the least and if I can get the others to stop they might be a good influence on him. Thanks!

kaplods
07-03-2010, 11:48 PM
In your statement "I am creative", it says a lot. It makes you what you are. Your being can be described as "creative'. To say "I am fat" to me sounds like you, your very soul, the essence of who you are...is fat. How sad. I'm just saying that's how many people take those words and it's why our friends and loved ones wince when they hear it.

"I" am not fat and frankly never have been. "I" have always been thin inside all this fat. :D

Just saying...:)


My soul and essence have no shape or size, they are infinite (not all large things are terrible, infinity is good kind of large). I've been fat since I was five years old, so it is intertwined with my physical identity to a degree, but I don't find it sad, because I don't think being fat is a crime. I don't even think it's ugly. I've always been beautiful (yes, even physically beautiful). For the most part, it's been a beauty not everyone could appreciate, but I always had more admirers than I needed. I had just the right number of boyfriends, and they all respected and loved me. I wasn't undeserving of that love and respect.

When my husband and I met (at nearly our highest weights), we didn't "see past each others ugliness," we recognized and appreciated the inner and outer
parts of the package we brought to the relationship. We look at each other and see the whole package, we don't imagine some different "inner package." I don't choose to see my husband as Brad Pitt in a David wrapper, or myself as Angelina Jolie in a Colleen wrapper.


I don't think I deserve or need any pity for my size, any more than I need pity for having blue eyes. Or needing pity for being disabled (I am a person with disabilities, and I am also a disabled person. You can choose to feel one is preferable to the other, but I do not. I am a person with blue yes, which makes me a blue-eyed person).

You might as well pity me for being caucasian (or am I a person with whiteness).

It makes me very sad to hear someone call themselves "thin inside all this fat," as if fat were so horrible and evil that goodness cannot coexist with fatness. It's a truth so horrible that it cannot be acknowledge, and must be denied. In order to feel ok, one can't be fat, they must be a thin person in a fat body. Thin is not part of personhood to me (neither is fatness). They are physical characteristics only and no more or less ok than any other physical trait. My husband is not a clear complected person in a freckled body.

If describing oneself as fat speaks to the nature of a person's soul, then if you're "thin inside" you believe that being thin (or feeling thin on the inside) is essential to your soul or essence.

I find it very sad when I hear people say "I am a thin person in a fat body." It seems to me that they're wrapping a lot of their identity in "being not fat."
Thinness must be awfully important to you, if you cannot invision yourself as anything different. Thinness is not important enough to me to be wrapped up in my image of myself. I don't really see myself as fat or thin. Not in any permanent sense.

I am fat, and there's not a damned thing wrong with that. I want to be healthier, and that means weight loss, but fat is such an inconsequential part of who I am that I don't have to talk around it. I can acknowledge it.

My natural hair color is a dark blond or light brown. Saying I am a blonde or a brunette doesn't make either part of my "essence or soul." Although my hair is currently red with blond highlights, being a redhead is not part of my soul either. It's just a factual physical description that applies to me at the moment, and a rather inconsequential one at that. I could wake up tomorrow with blue skin and I'd be a blue-skinned person, I would not be a pink-skinned person in a blue body. I'd still be me, and very little in my life would change (except I might have to reconsider the red hair. I think maybe I'd go white or depending on the shade of blue, maybe teal).


I was employed. I am disabled. Neither define my soul, and neither are necessarily a permanent state. I could enter remission tomorrow and be back in the work force again (that would be lovely, but I don't see myself as an employed person, in an unemployed body). There are a lot of things that I am that I wasn't always. There are a lot of things that I will be, that I am not yet. And none of those define me.

Fat has shaped who I am, and not only in negative ways. I'm not proud that I am fat, but neither am I ashamed of it. I'm not ashamed of my barely blonde hair either. I didn't have to be ashamed of my hair being blondish brown (or brownish blonde) in order to want to change it a different color. I don't have to be ashamed of fatness, in order to lose weight.

Yep I'm fat. Next year maybe I won't be, but neither my fat or my (future) thinness define me.

luciddepths
07-04-2010, 12:03 AM
So.. just to put this out there..

What did you want from this post? you know your answer already and now its turned into an English/grammar/i like my choice of words better than yours debate.. Ugh.

IF you want to stop having arguments? quit talking about it with them or never use open ended sentences.

if they ask you:
"what were you doing?"
"exercising"
"why"
"i want to, it feels great."

But really if you feel that strongly about it, quit hanging out with them then. They obviously can't handle you calling yourself fat.. and for a larger person to hear it from a smaller person it really gets on a persons nerves... 8 out of 10 times they are fishing for a compliment (thats for anyone.. big or small, not saying you are but most of the time people are) So if every time they see you, you go on about being fat I can see why they would be upset.


everyones on about CHOICE OF WORDS.. blah blah blah. IF they really are your friends you will just stop using that word around them. Sure you should be able to use WHATEVER word you want but to lose friends over it? Are you kidding me?

kaplods
07-04-2010, 12:35 AM
IF they really are your friends you will just stop using that word around them. Sure you should be able to use WHATEVER word you want but to lose friends over it? Are you kidding me?

What kind of person would end a friendship over using the word "fat" especially if it's not being used with the intention of being hurtful?

I've explained to dozens of people why I use fat, and why I prefer it to other terms. It's never cost me a friendship, and I've never ended a friendship for a friends preference to choose a different word (although I've jokingly threatened to when someone makes the mistake of referring to me as Fluffy - if they want to be fluffy that's fine with me as long as they don't expect me to use the word.)

I would try to avoid using any word in someone's presence if they asked me to (no one has asked me to do that with "fat" after hearing my rationale for using it), but I might still make mistakes because it's my preferred word.

Words have power, and they matter, but they don't matter enough to end friendships over when no insult is meant. I can't think of anyone who is or would be my friend (or anyone I'd want to be my firend), ending a friendship over any word that wasn't meant with ill intent.

luciddepths
07-04-2010, 12:49 AM
Well she said "i want to be friends with them, but I don't know how to make them stop arguing with me" - to me that meant either - never talk about it, or dont be friends.. because of the arguments which are brought on by words such as Fat, exercise, weight loss.

So it makes it alot easier for all parties involved to quit talking about it.. and never mention weight loss/fat/exercise.. because they do not like/cannot handle it.

kaplods
07-04-2010, 01:14 AM
Well she said "i want to be friends with them, but I don't know how to make them stop arguing with me" - to me that meant either - never talk about it, or dont be friends.. because of the arguments which are brought on by words such as Fat, exercise, weight loss.

So it makes it alot easier for all parties involved to quit talking about it.. and never mention weight loss/fat/exercise.. because they do not like/cannot handle it.


Ah, I see. My brain did not go there. I never considered either option, let alone that they might be considered the only two.

There are a lot of options besides and between never talking about it and ending the friendship. Tons and tons of options. Sure you could decide it's an off-topic subject, and you could also decide not to be friends, but I'd try some other things first.

The first being to talk about it, until everyone understands each other, or agrees to disagree.

Talking, even arguing would be my first choice over ending the friendship or taking such a big part of my life off the table as a subject of conversation - but discussion and debate is probably the one passion I have that takes up more of my life than dieting does, and I tend to gravitate towards friends who enjoy and are willing to talk about virtually anything too.

I don't mind when friends have drastically different opinions than my own, as long as they don't try to prevent me from communicating, and can respect my choices once I've explained them.

I've found that most people are respectful of my choices when they understand them. I've encountered very few situations in which I had to make a subject completely off limits to preserve the friendship.

Phoenix301
07-04-2010, 01:25 AM
I have never posted on this section of the forum before but i noticed this thread and after reading..all I have to say is, much ado about nothing. Give it a rest already..my lord people. Is it really such a big deal? I said she said you ought to say.. obviously FitGirlyGirl knows how she feels about the situation on her word choices. And if she is looking to solve the arguments with her friends, it comes down to the fact that you can't make someone change. FitGirlyGirl feels strongly about her word choices, and her friends especially this guy it seems, feels strongly about his opinion on her weight loss. If there is no common ground, and if neither party is willing to budge or take a different approach, then the simple outcome is continued conflict. And as far as using words to describe facts, to me it sounds like this entire topic could be summed up as bullheaded!

luciddepths
07-04-2010, 01:51 AM
amen to that.

FitGirlyGirl
07-04-2010, 01:56 AM
lucid - the problem is that it is not just the word fat with them. I'm sorry that my first post was not more clear, I was actually quite upset because he had decided to do the whole silent thing just a couple minutes before I posted. It's not just the word fat, but the entire concept that I am larger/heavier than I should be/want to be that causes these issues between us. I do understand about smaller people making such comments around larger people, I have been the larger person in that. I attempt to not discuss it at all, but they start these arguments when all I said was that I didn't want cookies or some such something. The worst of them is smaller than me anyway, he's thin. He's not rail thin, but I would guess he is definitely in the range of healthy BMI. So for him, that is not the issue. As for what I wanted from the post, I suppose I would like a way to answer their questions that doesn't start an argument or something to say to them when they do start arguing with me that will nip it so that we can move on. Yes, I do think I should be able to use the word fat to describe myself if I so choose. However, no, I am not going around talking about how fat I am all the time.

luciddepths
07-04-2010, 02:16 AM
OHH Oh well ok i getcha now :)

thats definitely hard, sometimes they might feel your too "thin" in a weird way its a competition.. like "she is going to be skinnier/healthier than me" that kinda thing..could be why they are reacting or could be just that they want you to feel good about yourself and that you are thin! (doesnt quite sound like what it is though) Hmm. I'd try the Diabetes thing.. LOL might seem silly but with one word answers only when it comes to the weight topic might be your best bet!!!

Rosinante
07-04-2010, 03:59 AM
This is one of the most interesting threads I'm reading!
Like I said on page 1, I'm with FGG and now with others - "fat" is what I am physically, no amount of word-substitution can change that. Because I've been fat for 53 of 55 years, it really is a part of who I am, of my essence. If "fat" is a bad word, then all of me is bad.

I'm losing weight not because either my body or my soul is bad but because I have fears for my health, and because bodyfat impairs my enjoyment of life, and because soulfat has squashed the person I was created to be (not totally, the Real Me squirts out very often!).

"Society" has almost exclusively got negative stereotypes about "fat", and I strongly believe that there is a responsibility to challenge that. I'm not saying that all fat people have that responsibility, any more than we all choose the one diet/WOE but some of us believe we do have the responsibility to change not just ourselves but society's views of us while we do it.

silverbirch
07-04-2010, 04:36 AM
FitGirlyGirl - here are a few tricky questions for you. :hug:

Is there a chance this is not *really* about fatness? Some people like to annoy other people for fun. Some people like to control other people. Could this sort of thing be going on, and your fatness is the vehicle for it?

Do these people ever act in a friendly way towards you? Are they ever kind, for example?

Do you want to be friends with them? Or has it just ended up here?

Good luck with it all!

famograham
07-04-2010, 06:01 AM
Fitgirlygirl, I do like the idea of the closed ended, simple answers!

But what I really want to say is, Colleen/Kaplods, as always...you are my HERO!!! You always say, with such eloquence, exactly what I am thinking!!!

:bravo::cp::love:

Eliana
07-04-2010, 09:52 AM
Fitgirlygirl, just to throw this out there, I'm glad you started this thread! :D It's been an interesting read and really highlights our differences. It's why I love message boards...to see how other people think.

Kaplods, you said: I find it very sad when I hear people say "I am a thin person in a fat body." It seems to me that they're wrapping a lot of their identity in "being not fat."
Thinness must be awfully important to you, if you cannot invision yourself as anything different. Thinness is not important enough to me to be wrapped up in my image of myself. I don't really see myself as fat or thin. Not in any permanent sense.

It's not easy to explain why I feel like a "thin person in a fat body". It's more that mental image I have of myself than anything else. When I close my eyes or dream, I am thin. So I imagine that person is who I am. It's quite a shock to look in the mirror, or worse pictures. Also, I was raised in an extremely judgmental and thin family who think fat is evil and definitely lazy. To be fat in this family is to be sub-par. My mom and I have both put on significant amounts of weight.

Here's a story to highlight how I feel about this. My grandfather recently chastised my mom for not having sent any pictures of herself to his sister. My mom sighed and explained that she just wasn't very proud of her pictures right now. My grandpa said "Oh, I didn't mean any recent pictures of you! Goodness no! I mean I want you to find an old picture and tell her it was taken just last month." :yikes: THAT'S how shameful it is to be fat in this family.

While I don't hold anyone else up to "thin" standards, I definitely hold myself to them. I know darn well that I am not fat and lazy. There's not a lazy bone in my body. I also know that there isn't a fat person out there who can be called "lazy" because I know just how hard it was to get out of bed at 235 pounds. The effort put into daily tasks is tremendous. But the rest of the world...or at least my family...does not see it that way and I just want to be respected by them.

I guess I'm eternally the 12 year old who just wants to be loved for the person I am within and now I am trying to become that person in everyone's eyes.

I thought everyone felt that way....again, I do love message boards. :)

rachael
07-04-2010, 10:46 AM
This seems to be a pretty common issue when people are above their goal weight but not all the way to their goal weight. I really think it's because people are not used to seeing you at a certain weight. One way that I've chosen to combat it myself is to talk to people about my goals. I've been 135 before and healthy. I've also been 116 and called "Skeletor" by my family. I told people that I have no intention of getting underweight again and that if I tell them that I'm over 135, they should trust me. Everyone has been pretty receptive to that.

Regardless of how hard it is to get out of bed with 100+ extra pounds on you, there are still lazy fat people. There are lazy thin people, too. Being fat isn't a character flaw, but it doesn't make you immune to them, either.

Lippy100485
07-04-2010, 10:46 AM
maybe the guy likes big women. I had a guy tell ME once "don't lose your curves!" (which almost caused me heart failure from disbelief). maybe your friend looks at different sized women differently because of that. Bottom line, it's your body. How you feel comfortable looks and healthwise is what's important.

hey, if a young, thin guy is telling you you're not fat, I say don't argue, enjoy the comments, smile and laugh, and continue doing whatever you want to do.

HAHA! I'm in the same boat... My husband is very supportive in me losing weight... but he doesn't want me to lose my boobs, butt, or thighs... lol... I'm gonna look pretty weird with a super tiny waist and super huge everything else lol...

I do the whole "I'm fat" thing too.... I'm not complaining, I'm just stating the obvious lol... but I do have a friend who looks like she weighs a good amount more than me (I don't really think she does.. I think she just carries everything different)... And I have a problem calling her fat even though I see myself as fat and I look smaller than her. I've known her since I was little... and in my mind, I've always see her as just so active ... She's always doing something... that's it's hard to wrap the idea that she's fat around my brain... Maybe that's what's going on? Plus also... people you love... you always see them differently than anybody else will... Most times when you are looking through the eyes of love... you don't see what everyone else sees...

JulieJ08
07-04-2010, 02:14 PM
My father would be profoundly annoyed if someone told him he was a person with a hearing disability or some other such PC something. He would correct them and say he was deaf. I am not a person with fat. I am fat. I refuse to bow to the PC BS.

This is an excellent argument why we should not get too easily offended by people's choice of words. Because regardless of whether they say you are a person with fat or you are fat, someone is going to be offended. We don't seriously expect people to somehow *know* who prefers which wording????????

Rosinante
07-04-2010, 03:07 PM
I try not to get upset by people's choice of words towards me (but the one thing I have is a thin-skin, so not always easy).

However, while I would never call anyone else fat, unless they already did, I stand by being allowed to call myself fat, because I am; and hiding it under pretty words doesn't help me; buying into other people's negative stereotypes of a word that is just an adjective helps no-one.

On the deaf thing - a colleague of mine tells people, when asked, that he is Not an impaired hearing person, he is a fully functioning deaf person. I like that! And I like that I'm a fully valid person who is fat, not a fat person waiting for the validation of being thin. Boy, I like this thread!

kaplods
07-04-2010, 05:25 PM
I think that obesity is going to be a very difficult problem to address as long as it's wrapped up in so much moral judgement. Treatments for substance abuse issues, mental health issues and other "social problems" have tended to be pretty ineffective until the problems lost much of their stigma of evil.

As a probation officer I learned that when people feel they're "broken" they don't tend to see themselves as fixable. When people see themselves as having functioned the best they could (even if it wasn't very well), they tend to be better able to learn from past mistakes. The attitude linked to successful change for most people seems to be "I did the best I could under the circumstances, but now I have the tools to do what I couldn't do before."

In the short-term, guilt is a powerfully positive emotion, but the window of positivity is brief. Saying to yourself, "Crap, I really messed up, I've got to fix this as best I can" is great if it motivates you to take action (and feel good about it).

However, if you stay in guilt mode, it actually makes it harder to take any positive action. Instead of working to repair or compensate for the damage, you spend all of your time punishing yourself for your disgressions, and you start to feel you're a bad person. Once you see yourself as a bad person, it becomes a lot easier to do bad things (after all, it's what bad people do).

I don't think guilt-motivated changes tend to be very successful, because it's very difficult to acheive and maintain the perfect guilt intensity. Too little guilt and there's no reason for change, and too much guilt is paralyzing - the person feels powerless over their "badness."

Different motivations are needed. I think it's one of the reasons I finally have been able to make much more positive changes for a much longer period than ever before. I stopped trying to fix the broken part of myself, and instead focused on making the functioning part perform even better. I built on small successes rather than trying to overhaul my entire person (in essence trying to become a different person overnight).

Rosinante
07-04-2010, 05:40 PM
I stopped trying to fix the broken part of myself, and instead focused on making the functioning part perform even better.

Wow. That is my revelation for the year. Amazing.

Trazey34
07-04-2010, 08:28 PM
I had to fix my broken parts :( There was no avoiding if I wanted them to go away. They weren't that broken after all, just kinda tilted off centre.

I'm finding most when I say i have 20 or 25 more to lose, i get the GASP!! NOO that's too much ha! I take it as a compliment and just chuckle, what else can ya do? It's not worth it to me to get my knicks in a twist over it -- again, people, what can ya do? They say and do stupid things all the time, it's part of our charm i guess :D Besides, what do you really WANT from all this??? Do you want people to say "yah you're right, you really are still quite fat, you'd better lose a lot more than that" OMG we'd all punch them in the face lol

kuchick
07-05-2010, 12:55 AM
The first definition of fat in the Webster Dictionary is "notable for having an unusual amount of fat" Because I don't believe that I am "notable" for being fat, I do not call myself fat. Fat is considered a derogatory term to the majority of society in a large part because it is used as a derogatory term by most, and while I do not consider society to be 100% correct in much of its judgement, I still try to follow societal norms to avoid offending others. Saying that it is now okay to use the term "fat" to describe others would mean that by BMI definition, anyone with a BMI over 25 should expect to be called "fat" because it now okay in polite society to use that term. Following that logic, everyone with an IQ under 90 should expect to be called "stupid" because by the IQ scoring, they are below normal intelligence. I am sure that there are some with a low IQ score who would say "Hey, I'm stupid. I own it. Let's remove the stigma." But my guess is that the vast majority of those with low IQs would not appreciate that a small number of their low IQ brethren decided for them that a derogotary word was now acceptable in polite society. "Hey, since I've decided that I'm stupid, and I've embraced my stupidity, I now believe that all with my IQ should be okay with being called stupid, too!"

I understand that the OP did not mean that her friends were arguing about the use of the term "fat", but that is what much of this discussion has devolved into. I don't really know where I was going with this anymore - maybe just saying that many find the term to be intensely offensive, and I'm not sure that it will change anytime soon.

Eliana
07-05-2010, 09:56 AM
Saying that it is now okay to use the term "fat" to describe others would mean that by BMI definition, anyone with a BMI over 25 should expect to be called "fat" because it now okay in polite society to use that term.

Very well put, I think! "Overweight" and "obese" are more the clinical terms and "fat" is more the derogatory term. It's wonderful that some people would like break down the negative connotations associated with the word "fat" but the vast majority of the world view that word as derogatory. I wonder if we said to our friends "I'm still obese" or "I'm still overweight" we wouldn't get different responses. Although, every time I mentioned to DH that I was still obese I got the "BIM charts aren't accurate" response. :D

ThicknPretty
07-05-2010, 11:54 AM
Funny...I personally hate the word obese. I really do. I know it's a clinical term and used in catagorizing people by their BMI, but I hate the way it sounds. I nearly cried when I discovered that I was, in fact, obese.

Fat does sound insulting to some people...to others, not so much. I don't think that this thread is as much about what we refer to OTHER people as but how we refer to ourselves. Which, to me, is entirely our own business. I call myself fat all the time. It's my body. I know a lot of things about it you don't. And if I want to call myself fat...really, in the grand scheme of YOUR life, what difference does it make? I have friends who try to argue with me sometimes when I call myself that, but I've never found myself caught up in a heated argument or discussion over it. I wouldn't participate in such a silly conversation. Just like I wouldn't argue with a friend who said her hair was frizzy if I thought it looked okay. I would express my opinion, but I'm not going to end up getting ticked off if she still thinks it's frizzy...good lord.

I honestly think that people in society have been conditioned to argue with people when they say something "bad" about themselves. Even if the person is just making an observation, we have the compulsion to say, "No, not at all, you're crazy!" I've been guilty of saying this to someone who was complaining about their weight and did, in fact, have a weight problem. Why did I say that? To avoid the argument...to avoid hurting their feelings...to be "nice"? Who knows...but it's a hard habit to break. It would be terribly uncomfortable for me to say, "Well, yeah, a little" or even to suggest a diet or exercise plan.

Lippy100485
07-13-2010, 01:22 AM
I wonder if we said to our friends "I'm still obese" or "I'm still overweight" we wouldn't get different responses.

HAHAHA... I've used the "I'm obese" words before... and you should see their faces lol! I am obese... lol... but still, use these words... and people feel the need to argue and yet at the same time it's almost like they feel a little guilty for some reason even though it's not their fault lol....

ShellydeFlores
07-13-2010, 02:23 AM
FitGirlyGirl-OH my GOD. I have these kinds of friends. I'm not very open with people at work or my common group of friends about my borderline diabetes or my 100 pounds weight gain due to the fact that I want to avoid these questions. I have friends who will ask the same questions:
"Do you want a cookie? Why not? You don't like my cookies? You can have just one, come on its just one!"

I hate that. It doesn't stop with one but it starts with none. Thank you. I have also asked my friends to just trust me that I know what I am doing with my body and when I seek advice or input, I will definitely ask. Most will respond with some sort of defensive response but others just say "Okay, I'm just making sure you are okay."

Also, have you gotten this?:
You can't have my cookies? Oh, you're diabetic? Oh you're borderline? What does that mean 'borderline'? A couple weeks later....Should you be having that cookie?

It's infurtiating but to be honest everyone has their own boiling points when it comes to comments about food, exercise and weight. Some people really just cannot pick up on the 'shut up signal'.

I also agree on the 'fat' word. I will call myself what I will because I know how I take my own comments. If someone else has a problem with me calling myself fat then thats really more of their problem with being uncomfortable, not mine. I also don't like the replacement words, ie fluffy, big- boned, cushioned. These are all softer words of 'fat'. I don't see the need in making others around me more comfortable with how I describe myself because I know that I am not putting myself down-also-I don't say 'fat' often enough anyway (unless I am describing my cat.)

BTW-This really isn't meant to sound mean or argumentative. :)

Also FitGirlyGirl-I have been noticing you around the threads and I think you are doing an amazing job girl! Keep up your spirit because sometimes that is what will drag us out of the mud and back on our feet!

GoldenLeaf
07-13-2010, 02:40 AM
I was perfectly happy to call myself 'obese' while obese according to BMI, and now 'overweight' when overweight according to BMI. I'm honest with myself. That is just what I am, and it's what a doctor would consider the truth. No point sugarcoating it, and if anyone tries to tell me "you're not fat!" when I'm still in the overweight category, I will say "thanks for the compliment, but according to doctors, I still need to lose x kilos to be in a healthy weight range" and leave it at that.

While I agree BMI isn't perfect and isn't always relevant for every one, for me it seems very accurate. When at the lower end of my healthy range I really do look like I'm getting underweight. When in the higher numbers of my healthy range I look like I'm getting a bit too big for my height. So I know it works for me. My partner on the other hand would look emaciated in his 'healthy' range, he's well built and muscled and I think the sort of person for which BMI just doesn't work.

calluna
07-13-2010, 12:54 PM
I didn't contribute to this discussion, but I did enjoy reading it - I find that constructive argumentation and healthy discussion are wonderful things. Words are how we construct our meaning, always fluid, always nuanced. Exploring them to increase understanding.

Those who don't enjoy it could perhaps stop reading the thread, but I hope they don't discourage the rest who are engaged in healthy discourse.

Matilda08
07-13-2010, 02:05 PM
People tell me that I dont need to lose weight all the time, I will admitt I carry my weight very well but at the end of the day how I feel is what matters!!! I could care less what they have to say or think:)

Fat Melanie
07-14-2010, 01:38 AM
and so I'll sign off as the name my father lovingly gave me and continues to use (which I edited when I came on to this site, because I didn't think people would understand)


Fat Kaplods,

Hey Kaplods! Still around I see. (I'm glad!!) Great minds think alike surely, since your name was Fat Kaplods, and I am Fat Melanie!

To everyone, I agree with using the word fat, unless you don't want to, and unless it makes you feel bad and you think of it negatively. I am Fat Melanie and I'm here and I'm proud. I'm proud because I'm Fat Melanie but I'm working on being Thin Melanie again.

I wasn't going to post, but when I realized there's a debate on the word 'fat' and whether we should use it or not, I just had to jump in, because of my name. :-D

Also should add that we ALL have our own personal preferences. If you don't want to use that word to describe yourself, cool. If you do, cool. We can all agree to disagree. We know we all have one thing in common, and that is to get healthy and lose weight.