Carb Counters - Going to be fat for ever, clearly. (Rant)




Rosinante
06-27-2010, 04:45 AM
Yesterday, I had a lot of bloat when I woke up, and the scales showed a 1lb increase. Not a problem, it happens.

Today, the bloat is all gone, so I got on the scales with confidence. It's gone up another half pound.
It is not an issue about daily weighing. Over the week - I've still gained nearly a pound. If I'd only weighed once a week, I'd still be in floods of tears this morning.

I am so angry and despairing. I read about people with less to lose than me who've lost 18lbs in a month. I don't begrudge anybody anything, obviously, but why not me? 11lbs in 5 weeks is very slow, at my weight and doing this supposedly miraculously fast, low-carb WOE. I've lost less than 4lbs in 4 weeks; by any diet's standards, that's pathetic.

I read people who say they've cheated left, right and centre and still lost weight. I haven't cheated by a millimetre for one single day, and this is the result?

What's the point? I'm clearly doomed to be a fat cow for the rest of my life; and I worry every night that the rest of my life is getting short because I'm so fat.


bronzeager
06-27-2010, 06:43 AM
Let us rant together then, because I only lose one pound a week too, and that is by scrabbling back every miserable calorie. Today I reduced my daily almond ration from 15 to seven to try to bring my daily total lower. This site is probably the only place I can reveal that without someone starting a movement to throw me in the looney bin. So I can only offer sympathy, not really suggestions, particularly since I calorie count rather than carb count.

OK, maybe three suggestions, which console me somewhat on occasion:

1) I have a chart, with a line plotting my weight, which I check about every week or so. The line does not go very steeply downward, but it does go downward. Always. (If necessary, I do not record any entries until I have a "downward" entry to put in.)

2) Annoyance and frustration can be a great stimulants to exercise, especially if you choose some appropriate music. I like The Clash, which probably shows my age. Even if the exercise does not help you lose weight, it is good for your health.

3) If this were the Medieval period or or the Bronze Age (note the username) our bodies would be perfectly adapted to survive. All those freaky losers would be totally starving to death when the famine came. Feel free to point out to yourself (and them, if you like) that it is only due to peculiar modern historical circumstances, that they are not sad victims of natural selection, while we are sitting pretty.

Keep your chin up.

caryesings
06-27-2010, 09:48 AM
My take on it is the folks that pull big starting numbers were the ones who dramatically improved their WOE. You, my friend, have been at this dieting thing for a while so your body long ago dumped the "easy" weight.

Then there's the age thing. I don't think it's those of us in the 50+ crowd who can cheat and still lose. I would suspect that at your height and age that 1600 calories (that I think you had posted in another thread) might not be that much lower than what your body needs to maintain your current weight so it will take more days to add up to the 3500 calorie deficit needed for 1 lb. loss.

But with age also comes the wisdom that a healthy way of eating and exercising is better for your body no matter what the size and if you stick with it, the size WILL change.


Rochester
06-27-2010, 10:00 AM
My mantra is "Even if your progress seems slow, just remember: if you're eating right and exercising, you are healthier today than you were a week ago."

And for me, health is more important than numbers on a scale. I refuse to starve myself or do some freaky crash diet just to get skinny.

Rosinante
06-27-2010, 12:30 PM
Thankyou very much, these are very helpful.
On the WOE's forum, I got some good advice too and was nearly surfacing, then someone posted some links to threads "to inspire you".
These turned out to be threads she'd started to talk about how much she'd lost (about twice as much as I have) in the same length of time, despite regularly cheating, and many people's praise of what she'd achieved.

This made me cross - I'd already posted that that was part of my disappointment, that others do better for less effort.
I congratulated her on her loss but pointed out that hers was not the most tactful of posts. She is now all angry and defensive, and says it's not working because it's my own fault. I've temporarily withdrawn!


Let us rant together then, because I only lose one pound a week too, and that is by scrabbling back every miserable calorie. Today I reduced my daily almond ration from 15 to seven to try to bring my daily total lower.
I am sorry but that did make me smile: I too have stood there, counting shreds of grated cheese out of a dish to get the right weight!


1) I have a chart, with a line plotting my weight, which I check about every week or so. The line does not go very steeply downward, but it does go downward. Always. (If necessary, I do not record any entries until I have a "downward" entry to put in.)

I like the idea of only recording the downward points. I'll see if I can work out a way to record my intake on DietPower without a graph showing up.

My take on it is the folks that pull big starting numbers were the ones who dramatically improved their WOE. You, my friend, have been at this dieting thing for a while so your body long ago dumped the "easy" weight.

I guess, although my diet immediately pre this restart was pretty hideous, almost deep-fried mars bar sandwiches on white bread.....:dizzy:

Then there's the age thing. I don't think it's those of us in the 50+ crowd who can cheat and still lose. I would suspect that at your height and age that 1600 calories (that I think you had posted in another thread) might not be that much lower than what your body needs to maintain your current weight so it will take more days to add up to the 3500 calorie deficit needed for 1 lb. loss.

But with age also comes the wisdom that a healthy way of eating and exercising is better for your body no matter what the size and if you stick with it, the size WILL change.

OK, I can see that, good point. I will try and drop a couple of hundred calories while sticking to the WOE and see if it helps.

My mantra is "Even if your progress seems slow, just remember: if you're eating right and exercising, you are healthier today than you were a week ago."

And for me, health is more important than numbers on a scale. I refuse to starve myself or do some freaky crash diet just to get skinny.

That is true. Joints, skin and mood (usually :o ) are vastly improved.

Part of my anxiety is that I am doing something so freakydeaky that I'm damaging my body. Lots of people lose weight and live healthily low carb for ever, don't they?

BTW, what does the IR in your plan mean?

Thankyou all again.

kaplods
06-27-2010, 02:59 PM
Perspective is a mighty odd duck. I would KILL to achieve 11 pounds in 5 weeks (well, no I guess I wouldn't actually murder for weight loss, but I'd think about doing some pretty mean things, if it would help).

I used to be a person who could lose 11 pounds my starting week, and 5 to 7 lbs for the first six months of a diet. That was in my late teens and early twenties though. I'm 44 now, and I can't lose that way anymore.

11 pounds in 5 weeks, though is actually very dramatically fast weight loss, when you look at the averages. I know because when I was *****ing to my doctor a few years ago, that I "should" be able to lose at least 2 lbs a week - he laughed (kind of bitterly - I think he was trying to lose a few pounds himself, though he's more stocky than fat) and said something to the effect of "Where did you hear that?"

He reminded me that most people (even skinny, only-need-to-lose-five-pounds people) do NOT lose an average of 2 lbs per week. Most people lose far, far less, because they don't stick with it long enough to keep up that average. Most folks eventually give up and gain it all back and then some. He pointed out that just a lack of serious backsliding was a phenomenal acheivement. And each week I continue to maintain/lose is a truly remarkable acheivment.

I think most folks give up because they feel as if they're in a race and everyone is passing them by. I know that's how I felt every time I abandoned a diet - sometimes when my weight loss dropped down TO 2 lbs a week. I'd think "Well I've been losing 5 to 7 lbs a week, and now I'm only losing 2, at this rate the weight will NEVER come off. What's the use, I'm clearly doomed to be fat forever, I might as well enjoy life (food), and with that thought I'd binge until I regained all of the weight I'd lost (and usually another 10 to 15 for good measure).

It's taken me 5 years to lose 83 lbs. So that's an average of 1/3 of a pound per week. Now the first 20 lbs were "accidental" (they occured without dieting after I was prescribed a CPAP for sleep apnea. The doctors told me this could happen, but I didn't believe them). The year and a half or so after that, I tried to lose weight, but had almost no success (I wasn't willing to try the low-carb diet my doctor suggested, because I thought low-carb diets were crazy unhealthy). Then I had a consult with the doctor of the local weight loss clinic (she and her husband each lost about 100 lbs on a modified Atkins). At that point, I started considering reducing carbs, and started trying to do so, but was afraid of going "too low" for a long time (because the couple times I HAD tried low-carb, I'd gotten extremely sick, almost passing out from what I now think was probably low blood sugar).

At any rate, all that boils down to having lost the last 63 lbs in about two years two years (which means I've lost an average of .6 lbs per week for the past two years).

I'm happy with half a pound a week. I'd love to lose faster, but when I try to force it (cutting way back on calories, or trying to do a lot more exercise), it backfires on me (mostly due to health problems I have now, that I didn't have when I was in my teens and twenties). I pushed myself during a recent family visit. To entertain my family while they visited, I pushed myself to walk further, and longer and then to swim with my sister at night in the hotel pool. It was a great five days, although each day I felt more and more wore out, and I just medicated with caffeine and pain relievers. Then when they left, I crashed, and was in bed for several days (that's just a rather normal cycle to folks with fibromyalgia - though I should have known better and paced myself better).

Everyone isn't passing you by. You're smack dab in the middle, but you're only looking ahead. You don't see those of us behind you, only those ahead. This is like a huge marathon where you're seeing the 1,000 runners ahead of you, and not the 19,000 running behind.

I don't see the folks behind me either, though my doctor assures me that by the numbers they're there. I may not be in first place or second, or eve 5,000 - but there are a lot more people behind me than in front of me. It's hard for me to believe it (so much that I had to research diet statistics after my doctor told me I was doing so well, and darned if I didn't find out that by the numbers, he's right. There aren't many folks who maintain any weight loss for five years - so just on that measure I am in the lead, not dead last).

Every pound you lose is an acheivement most people don't make permanent. Even that first pound. If you keep one pound off for a year, you're doing "better than most folk." If you keep those 11 pounds off, and never lose another - you're still doing "better than most folk." Every pound lost that you maintain, puts you further and further in the lead.


That thought alone has given me the motivation to stay in the race. First realizing it doesn't matter how anyone else is doing, because only I will earn the real prize (better health and more mobility, and maybe a chance to get back to work). Secondly, realizing that maintaining the weight loss I've acheived so far puts me further and further in the lead. The more I lose and the longer I maintain the loss, the better I'm doing in comparison to everyone else (even though the comparison may not be important, it does feel good to know that I've lost 83 lbs, and have maintained or lost consistently for the past 5 years. Not many people can say that. So even that measly 1/3 to 1/6 of a pound is still an achievement most people don't make.


I'm at the top, not at the bottom, and so are you. Look back and you'll see me waving.

Rosinante
06-28-2010, 03:22 AM
kaplods, you write inspiring posts. I'm sure other people have already told you you should write inspirational books, maybe you already do.

OK, I can lay down my snit that other, "less deserving" (because they boast of their cheats) people zoom past me. Sometimes we all need a tantrum, and there's no-one at home to have it with.

I can Try and be glad about the 10lbs (yup, 10 not 11, the scales went up again this morning) in 5 weeks, although, your wise words not withstanding, I feel nervous because if that's all I can manage at the very beginning of a weightloss drive, it's clearly going to get less as I go.

I will be talking to my GP this afternoon about fluid retention - my ankles have barely subsided overnight, and that worries me.

I will do some more research about the health benefits of this WOE - my improved, nay, totally cured intestinal orchestral noises would be reason enough to stick with it, provided I can be sure it's not damaging other parts of me - heart and arteries, for example.

I've set up my food log (DietPower) so that I can't see a graph, which was getting depressing.

I'll keep on trying. One day I'll catch up to you, maybe, because you are so definitely not behind me!

Thankyou again.

kaplods
06-28-2010, 04:50 PM
Thanks for the lovely compliments. I still feel like a dunce, to have taken 40 years to get this problem figured out, but if there's one thing I have learned it's the value of persistance (hang in there, you'll do great no matter where you are in the race, ultimately remember it's not really a race with anyone but yourself. And even with yourself, it doesn't have to be a race. Your grade doesn't depend on how fast you get there).


Rants and tantrums are great (I have them all the time) as long as they're releasing steam, and making you feel better and more confident when you're done. Remember that even when it feels like you can't do this, you really can (so get mad, rant, scream.... whatever and then move on, refreshed).



I feel nervous because if that's all I can manage at the very beginning of a weightloss drive, it's clearly going to get less as I go.



Ah, but this is a myth you see. It's not "absolutely true" that slow weight loss in the beginning, inevitably results in slower loss later on.

My losses have snowballed (when I started, I was hoping this would happen, but I wasn't sure).

All other weight loss did result in the fastest weight loss first, but this time the reverse has been true. As I'm able to do more (without torturing myself), the better results I'm seeing.

I'm not saying that IS true with you, only that it might be. You can't borrow trouble or victory, you can only deal with today.

If looking ahead (or behind) makes you want to quit, stop looking those directions. Look down only at your feet, if you have to.

Rosinante
06-29-2010, 03:40 AM
Well, had a meeting with my GP yesterday. She didn't like my urates, cholesterol or bp, and has recommended a low GI diet rather than low carb.
I'd be stupid to ignore medical advice, so I'll do what she says.

I had a last low carb meal last night - hey, it was chicken salad, it's all I had in, and there are not many programmes that wouldn't see that as acceptable!
Ironically, all my water weight that I'd gained this week vanished overnight - but I promise to be obedient to the doctor, and listen to you, and keep on plodding.

Bunti
06-29-2010, 12:50 PM
Good to listen to your doctor. Low GI is also reduced carb, if you look at the way most folk eat, just not the LOWEST carb diet out there. Here is hoping you feel better now.

I wonder what the water weight was from-- for me it is a clear correlation between water weight and processed carbs, particularly wheat. It was a real eye opener when I started plotting how I felt in the morning in addition to logging my food. When I looked back over the month, I could see a pattern. It was some of the posters here who made that suggestion. It was a good one.

Rosinante
06-29-2010, 01:08 PM
That's what was making me anxious, as well as cross: no wheat, no processed carb had passed my lips in 36 days (still haven't, as it goes, although I've had some oats and rye), so I was worried that the retention was the sign of a heart that had just given up. Apparently not!

fatmad
07-04-2010, 04:36 PM
this has been a great thread for me to read. I have read Kaplods with a similar post in a couple of other threads, and I too really need it now. I am stalled stalled stalled. I have taken 6 months to lose 15 pounds. Looking at it from the Kaplods point of view, I am doing just fine. I am sticking to my woe and that by itself is good, and I have got my blood sugars in tune again.
thanks for the rant, saved me ranting myself!

srmb60
07-05-2010, 12:53 AM
I'm going to second something Bunti said. If you look at how carb laden the "average" diet is ... cutting some wouldn't hurt anybody! And so many of the most common carbs are soooo processed!!

Real food is so delicious!

Rosinante
07-05-2010, 06:34 PM
I'm currently eating just under 90g carbs a day, which feels a lot more than when I was lowcarbing - well, it is, it's 9 times what it was some days!

I've not found a named WOE for what I'm doing but I'm:

Trying to eat my main meal at lunch time, and lighter at the end of the day.
Eating 2 small snacks to try and maintain an even GI/GL keel.
Eating starch with my fruit - doctor's advice to try and avoid loud gas, working fine so far.
Not eating after 8pm - doctor's advice.
Not eating starch carbs at my evening meal - Ian Marber (The Food Doctor)'s advice.
Trying to eat up to 1400 calories a day. It's not always easy to get up that high without getting my carbs up too high, but working on it.

I'm quite pleased that in the 6 days since I left low carb for whatever this is, I've managed to lose just over a pound despite carb water weight.

Yesterday I'd lost a stone since I began on 5/24 but I'm 3oz (!) heavier today, so working on consolidation at the mo.

Rosinante
07-06-2010, 06:40 AM
Another water bounce but that's OK, in the week since I increased my carbs, I've still lost half a pound, which I'm quite pleased about. I'm hoping my body's response to the extra carbs will stabilize soon, and that I can start seeing bigger drops again. Still, even half a pound is another half a pound healthier than May 24th, when I re-started.

Bunti
07-06-2010, 02:54 PM
I think that below 120 grams is still low carb, if you ask my doctor. I call my diet a "modified carb diet". It is very close to what used to be called a high protein diet. I am shooting for 60-90 carbs a day.

Rosinante
07-07-2010, 04:49 AM
Can't be more compliant with my diet; seriously upped the walking yesterday; had some very successful bathroom time and yet - still the same weight. Gritting my teeth here.

203.5
203.9
203.7
202.9
203.8
204.4
205.0
203.0 - half a pound this week. Started increasing my carbs.
202.0 -
202.5
202.2
202.9
201.6
201.9
202.5 - half a pound this week
202.5

joyful retiree
07-16-2010, 10:44 AM
What a great thread. Rosinante, It sounds like you are finding what works for you. Congratulations & keep us posted on how you are doing.

Kaplods, I can relate to a lot of what you said. I only wish I could express myself as well as you. It has taken me 3 years to lose 54 lbs and I am pleased with any loss I get & can maintain. It has also taken about 45 yrs for me to find something I can live with & be okay with it taking so long. I have Rheumatoid Arthritis & have the same issue of crashing & ending up in bed for a few days if I push myself too hard. I guess I am a slow learner cause I keep doing it every once in a while. Learning to pace myself is so hard. Do you have any tips? Sorry if this is a thread jack, so just yell at me if it is. I will eventually learn.

kaplods
07-17-2010, 01:33 AM
I have Rheumatoid Arthritis & have the same issue of crashing & ending up in bed for a few days if I push myself too hard. I guess I am a slow learner cause I keep doing it every once in a while. Learning to pace myself is so hard. Do you have any tips? Sorry if this is a thread jack, so just yell at me if it is. I will eventually learn.


I wish I were a better learner in practice than on paper. I'm STILL learning to pace myself.

Today was a perfect example. I went swimming today, and it's been a while since I've been in the pool, and I tend to get carried away in the water anyway (because I feel so good in the water. I'd live there if I could).

So I thought I was being smart by limiting myself to 30 minutes in the water. 5 minutes of light stretching in the water, 20 minutes of exercise, and 5 minutes of treading water to relax/cool down.

And for those 20 minutes, I put absolutely everything into the workout that I could. It was fun to really push myself hard, because I can't do that on land. I used the water weights with the most resistance and I moved at optimal pace for most of the 20 minutes.

I patted myself on the back for "pacing myself," and only getting dressed did I wonder if maybe I'd overdone it a bit.

It became clearer as the day went on that I am going to be SORE tomorrow.

I'm still not sure if I overdid it or not. I can't see myself never pushing myself, but it's sometimes hard to know you've gone too far until you've already stepped over the ledge.

My biggest tip is to journal it all. Writing it down, helps me judge the "next time" a little better. It's all trial and error, and often it's the errors that provide the most information.

joyful retiree
07-17-2010, 10:34 AM
kaplods,

Thanks for your reply. Your tip of journaling makes perfect sense. I already keep a food diary, so adding activities & my body's response is easy. I can't believe I hadn't already thought of this, especially since I like collecting data and analyzing it. DUH! I think I'll also track pain & stiffness per the 1 to 10 pain scale.