Carb Counters - Has anyone else had this happen?? Toast causes problems?




Bunti
06-20-2010, 08:14 PM
Not sure what is going on with me but ate wheat toast and BOOM. Ankle swelled, got REALLY hungry and ache all over.

I have been tested for a wheat allergy and celiac but came out negative... I love baked goods, but it may be that I have a sensitivity that is not easy to identify??? I am 7 pounds up since yesterday.

Anyone else have something like this??? I have been on low carb diet, feeling great, but missing some of my faves..... don't want to feel like this though, phew! (Staying below 20 grams net carbs per meal-- even with the toast)


Rochester
06-20-2010, 08:41 PM
There are four different types of issues with gluten or wheat.

1. Celiac disease - basically the body recognizes gluten as toxic and attacks it (and your intestines)
2. Non-Celiac gluten sensitivity - the same as Celiac disease but blood tests are inconclusive for Celiac (I think...I might be wrong on that.)
3. Wheat allergy - the body identifies wheat as a foreign substance and releases histamines to fight it (symptoms are runny nose, itchy throat, rash...like hay fever)
4. Wheat intolerance - the body lacks an enzyme to break down the protein in wheat (The symptoms are identical to Celiac and gluten sensitivity. The difference is that with wheat intolerance you can tolerate items with gluten (rye, oats, etc.) but not items with wheat.)

Your symptoms could be explained by gluten sensitivity or wheat intolerance. Just because you had a negative Celiac test does not mean you do not have one of these other issues. I am wheat intolerant and was diagnosed through an elimination process. My doctor said there is no conclusive test to determine whether or not you lack the enzyme to digest wheat.

Rosinante
06-21-2010, 02:29 AM
I haven't had any wheat on this WOE (Day #29) and, very fortunately, haven't missed it. Yet.
However, before I began it, yes bread was a real ankle-sweller for me.
I've also noticed that since I began this WOE, my joints have improved and I've lost the general achiness ~ but there's so much that I'm no longer eating that I can't swear that it's just the bread that's the cause.


Bunti
06-21-2010, 03:49 AM
I haven't had any wheat on this WOE (Day #29) and, very fortunately, haven't missed it. Yet.
However, before I began it, yes bread was a real ankle-sweller for me.
I've also noticed that since I began this WOE, my joints have improved and I've lost the general achiness ~ but there's so much that I'm no longer eating that I can't swear that it's just the bread that's the cause.

That's exactly how I am feeling, sore joints, swollen ankles, etc. When I was no grains less than 45 g carb, low carb I was fine, now, aaghhh. It is as though I have taken hungry and ouchy pills.

Back on plan tomorrow, I want to feel better!! These swollen ankles have got to go!

Thanks for posting, I was starting to think I was the only one with the sore joints, lack of energy, ankle swelling response.

Rosinante
06-21-2010, 09:45 AM
It's interesting (if painful) to have your body make such a clear response, isn't it?

Good luck with the next bit of your journey.

kaplods
06-21-2010, 11:54 AM
Since going low-carb, I've found that carbs in general, and wheat most especially cause some unpleasant symptoms. Some of the symptoms are very specific and odd (wheat seems to aggravate a strange skin rash that hubby calls "face rot," and the dermatologist calls seborrheic dermatitis, an inflammation of the skin probably caused by a type of yeast called Malassezia).

Malassezia is common, and many (maybe even most) people have it on their skin with no problem at all, even at much higher levels than normal. Some people have an immune reaction to the yeast (either because it's become overgrown or because the person has an increased sensitivity for some other reason. Some illnesses and health conditions can make a person more susceptible to reactions to the yeast).

Water retention is a reaction to wheat and to a high-carb diet in general. To some degree this is something everyone experiences (if they compare their weight on high-carb to low-carb eating, they'll notice the difference). High carb diets require more water to process than low-carb diets, so almost everyone will gain some weight (though it may only be water) if they increase their carb intake significantly.

elisaannh
06-21-2010, 02:12 PM
I went Paleo low carb back in the late 1990's. I was completely off all grains. When I stopped and ate bread, I became so sick. The doctor was kind, he said we could go through all kinds of testing, or I could simply stop eating grains! lol. I don't question my body's wisdom. Sometimes when we are saturated with a high carb diet we don't pay attention to all of the discomforts and reactions, we think just being "fat" is the answer to it. But I am currently 241 pounds and feel better than I have in many years, including the years I was thin and on 100 carbs a day. I will stay right here in my under 40 range for the rest of my life. It just feels too good to make grains a desire to pine over.

Bunti
06-22-2010, 02:21 AM
I hope I can get to the point where I don't miss carbs. As long as I skip the grains, I seem to do just fine.

walking2lose
06-22-2010, 01:29 PM
Have any of you read the book Good Calories, Bad Calories? I just ordered it on Amazon. He apparently discusses at length the scientific reasons behind the troubles we have with wheat and grains.

I just went low carb about a month ago and have been reading everything I can get my hands on. Mark Sisson's book Primal Blueprint has made a huge impact on me.

I must say, my stomach has not been bloated a bit, no more gastro issues, and just overall I feel SO GOOD (and I've lost nearly 10 lbs. even though I have only been exercising minimally -- due to being busy).

Interesting stuff about the toast causing your ankles to swell... no more bread for me, thanks.

katerina11
06-22-2010, 06:38 PM
Good Calories Bad Calories is an exceptional book. A great deal of research went into there and it shows.

That said, it can be a difficult read. The first number of chapters are essentially historical pattern recognition. There is a dense amount of analysis of research as well and then pathophysiology.

walking2lose
06-23-2010, 11:45 AM
Oh, great... it'll kill my brain! Ha! I just want to know/have the science to back up how I'm eating --- I will just have to glean from it what I can (I'm not too science-y, so I know a lot will go over my head). I'm hoping to get it tomorrow.

Bunti
06-23-2010, 12:19 PM
Well, day three and a half back on plan. Going extremely low carb to start with and already I feel better. Not working on calories or fat restriction yet, but immediately on stopping the carbs again, somewhat normal amounts of food fills me up!!!

I am going to stop looking at the nutrition reports on Sparkday, cause if I read that I don't have enough carb one more time, or that I am eating too much fat, I start to believe it, and that leads to eating more carbs, less fat, then I become an out of control binge eater. I am going to still chart my food, it sure helps, but unless I am totally unclear about something I have done, I am going to follow my plan and listen to my body!

Rochester
06-23-2010, 12:25 PM
I am going to stop looking at the nutrition reports on Sparkday, cause if I read that I don't have enough carb one more time, or that I am eating too much fat, I start to believe it, and that leads to eating more carbs, less fat, then I become an out of control binge eater. I am going to still chart my food, it sure helps, but unless I am totally unclear about something I have done, I am going to follow my plan and listen to my body!

Do you mean sparkpeople.com? It has the option to set your own carb/fat/protein ratios. Go to your nutrition tracker and click on "Change Nutrition Goals." You should base your numbers on some sort of formula, though, not just your own opinion. This is a calculator (http://www.freedieting.com/tools/nutrient_calculator.htm) you could use to set your numbers.

Bunti
06-24-2010, 12:23 AM
Rochester thanks for the direction to the site with the calorie and nutrient calculator, and the hint about Spark People.

It makes a big difference! figured out calories and nutrients, and changed the nutrition goals on my nutrition tracker. Wahoo!!!!

Bright Angel
06-24-2010, 10:28 AM
Oh, great... it'll kill my brain!
Ha! I just want to know/have the science to back up how I'm eating
--- I will just have to glean from it what I can
(I'm not too science-y, so I know a lot will go over my head).
I'm hoping to get it tomorrow.
I've read "Good Calories Bad Calories" 3 times in the past 3 years,
and recently purchased another copy to read on my Kindle.
I find the book worthwhile, but challenging,
even though I have a doctorate in Law.

This December - 2010, I hear that Gary Taubes is publishing a similiar,
but far less technical book, "What makes you Fat".
He said that he wrote "Good Calories Bad Calories" for the medical community,
and that he wrote his new book to get the same concepts to the general public.

Rochester
06-24-2010, 11:46 AM
Rochester thanks for the direction to the site with the calorie and nutrient calculator, and the hint about Spark People.

It makes a big difference! figured out calories and nutrients, and changed the nutrition goals on my nutrition tracker. Wahoo!!!!

Glad to help! :)

walking2lose
06-24-2010, 12:41 PM
I've read "Good Calories Bad Calories" 3 times in the past 3 years,
and recently purchased another copy to read on my Kindle.
I find the book worthwhile, but challenging,
even though I have a doctorate in Law.

This December - 2010, I hear that Gary Taubes is publishing a similiar,
but far less technical book, "What makes you Fat".
He said that he wrote "Good Calories Bad Calories" for the medical community,
and that he wrote his new book to get the same concepts to the general public.

Oh my. I think I should've waited for his new book :dizzy: I haven't received it, but I'm hearing from lots of people that it's daunting.

My question is if science backs up his ideas about nutrition, WHEN is the medical community going to come on board? I am getting lots of "concern" when I tell people I'm avoiding grains, sugars, etc. "Oh, Atkins doesn't work -- you gain it all back," "But you NEED lots of whole grains in your diet," etc. I'm following Primal Blueprint, and frankly, I'm not planning to lose weight and then start chowing on sugary carb laden foods (or breads or other grains). I'm getting carbs from vegetables and fruits, thank you! I feel so much better physically, and I've now lost 10 lbs. For years, I thought this was an unhealthy way to eat too, but truly, isn't the way your body feels a huge marker of success?

I do have a couple concerns and trepidations -- am I eating too much sat fat, are my kidneys working too hard (I am peeing a LOT), etc.

Hopefully I'll get the book today and can take a look myself.

Thanks all!

katerina11
06-25-2010, 08:30 AM
Oh my. I think I should've waited for his new book :dizzy: I haven't received it, but I'm hearing from lots of people that it's daunting.

My question is if science backs up his ideas about nutrition, WHEN is the medical community going to come on board? I am getting lots of "concern" when I tell people I'm avoiding grains, sugars, etc. "Oh, Atkins doesn't work -- you gain it all back," "But you NEED lots of whole grains in your diet," etc. I'm following Primal Blueprint, and frankly, I'm not planning to lose weight and then start chowing on sugary carb laden foods (or breads or other grains). I'm getting carbs from vegetables and fruits, thank you! I feel so much better physically, and I've now lost 10 lbs. For years, I thought this was an unhealthy way to eat too, but truly, isn't the way your body feels a huge marker of success?

I do have a couple concerns and trepidations -- am I eating too much sat fat, are my kidneys working too hard (I am peeing a LOT), etc.

Hopefully I'll get the book today and can take a look myself.

Thanks all!

The medical community is notoriously slow, but the recent meta analysis on saturated fat is helping. New ADA recommendations changed within the last year to support low carb dieting for diabetes. USDA is coming out with a new recommendation which is supposedly less carb focused.

So change is happening, but trickling down to PCP's will be tough and getting cardiologists to accept anything other than Ornish will be really tough! I work in an ICU and cringe daily when I hear stuff.

walking2lose
06-25-2010, 11:13 AM
Interesting. At least it's happening, albeit slowly. I am really trying to convince my husband (type 1 diabetic) to go primal with me. I'm still waiting for me book - will let you know how I do with it and may come to you with questions. :)

Bunti
06-25-2010, 01:13 PM
I happened to be at the same church picnic with a diabetes educator (nurse practitioner/dietitian) from our local hospital. I had helped myself to salad with homemade Italian dressing, 1/4 of a BBQ chicken (no sauce, a rub) a big serving of roasted peppers, onions, zucchini drizzled with olive oil and basil. Unsweeted iced tea with a slice of lemon too. When offered corn bread, garlic bread etc, I said "No thanks, I am limiting wheat." I was tickled with my low carb tasty choices.

No one else blinked an eye, but the diabetes guy felt the need to criticize my plate and the amount of fat on it. Told me it would better if I ate the beans and bread and watermelon than the skin off the chicken.

Beans were baked, loaded with sugar and from a can, bread: white, smothered with butter and cheese, watermelon-- well a little further down the road I may have some watermelon.

He proceeded to tell me how I should have the "recommended low fat diet". With the same breath, he talked about how weight loss surgery "cured" diabetes, and allowed all foods. And I needed 5 servings of grains.

I think I may start a new thread with this. I felt confronted in a fairly negative way, as he went on and on I finally found my voice.

I just said, my doctor is monitoring this diet (she is) and he backed off. But he is the primary diabetes education resource in our small city.

koceank29
06-28-2010, 02:21 PM
I went Paleo low carb back in the late 1990's. I was completely off all grains. When I stopped and ate bread, I became so sick. The doctor was kind, he said we could go through all kinds of testing, or I could simply stop eating grains! lol. I don't question my body's wisdom. Sometimes when we are saturated with a high carb diet we don't pay attention to all of the discomforts and reactions, we think just being "fat" is the answer to it. But I am currently 241 pounds and feel better than I have in many years, including the years I was thin and on 100 carbs a day. I will stay right here in my under 40 range for the rest of my life. It just feels too good to make grains a desire to pine over.

So true...I thought my aches and pains were because I was fat and getting older. Now that I have cut out grains, I have no aches and pains and have tons of energy, if I'd only known the truth earlier!

Bunti
06-29-2010, 11:04 PM
I feel so much better off grains as well-although I do have the occasional 2tablespoons of oat bran, and use flax meal--they make my low carb versions of things do-able.

mascara blue
07-05-2010, 09:53 AM
Not sure what is going on with me but ate wheat toast and BOOM. Ankle swelled, got REALLY hungry and ache all over.

I have been tested for a wheat allergy and celiac but came out negative... I love baked goods, but it may be that I have a sensitivity that is not easy to identify??? I am 7 pounds up since yesterday.

Anyone else have something like this??? I have been on low carb diet, feeling great, but missing some of my faves..... don't want to feel like this though, phew! (Staying below 20 grams net carbs per meal-- even with the toast)

I feel your pain!! I have gluten intolerance. WHen I eat anything with gluten in it, my stomach bloats up, my weight shoots up, my eyes become puffy and my ankles and feet swell up and my shoes become tight. I also do great on low carb but crave bread and particularly pizza so much sometimes it hurts. Maybe try gluten free bread next time.

Bunti
07-06-2010, 01:49 PM
I have been reading other threads, and certain foods must be forbidden to me-- can't have them ever. Some of those in my immediate circle seem to think that I should be able to moderate my consumption of some foods, rather than eliminate them. But for me processed carbs, especially wheat and most hi GI foods are just plain wrong and negative.

Every time I have them, I either feel awful, or they trigger more eating or remorseful thinking. None of these 3 things make me feel good about myself, so I am choosing not to do them. Gee, those results kinda sound like addiction, don't they????:dust: