100 lb. Club - Sweet Suicide




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Jen415
05-24-2010, 08:43 AM
I watched this entire documentary yesterday. If I wasn't convinced already that sugar was evil, I would be now..... here's a clip from You Tube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8ezchj4wO8

What is even more apalling is how trusted organizations like the AMA and the American Diabetes Association were so easily bought by sugar manufacturers for their silence about the truth that sugar kills you.


JayEll
05-24-2010, 09:25 AM
A good book that lays this all out is Sugar Blues by William Dufty.

Jay

rockinrobin
05-24-2010, 09:35 AM
I'm still not sure why so many people are reluctant to believe just how evil sugar is. I'm still not sure why some people are shocked at the fact that people choose to cut it out of their lives, as if they're *depriving* themselves and their lives can some how not be full and satisfying without it. I'm still not sure why I think I have to have a planned splurge of it every now and then...


Viviane
05-24-2010, 10:05 AM
Fantastic link, thanks! I'll have to see if Netflix has the whole movie.

Michelle98272
05-24-2010, 12:15 PM
Without looking at the youtube link and with full honesty in saying I've never read the book: Is sugar bad for everyone? Or is it just for some people that have a sensitivity? This is an honest question not trying to argue.

I've always thought some people are just super sensitive like people who have celiac disease that can't eat wheat or products with wheat gluten.

I know for me I think I'm mildly sensitive if I eat a little, I want a lot. A friend at work is on a 0 sugar plan and told me if I have a past history of sensitivity to alcohol or family history of alcoholism (check and check) I likely should go sugar free.

Your thoughts?

JustBeckyV
05-24-2010, 12:18 PM
I guess I am confused as to how you can cut it out completely. Seems that most foods contain some kind of sugar. Am I wrong?

WarMaiden
05-24-2010, 12:24 PM
I know for me I think I'm mildly sensitive if I eat a little, I want a lot. A friend at work is on a 0 sugar plan and told me if I have a past history of sensitivity to alcohol or family history of alcoholism (check and check) I likely should go sugar free.

I agree with your friend about a billion percent. Alcoholism and sugar addiction are nearly the same thing, run in families, etc. Just as with alcohol, if you are a sugar addict, then cutting it out is the only way to "manage" it, because addictions aren't manageable.

Becky: We are speaking of white refined sugar (sucrose) and other varieties of refined sugar (high fructose corn syrup and so on). By definition, these aren't whole foods, but are processed foods and do not naturally occur in anyone's diet.

The kind of "sugar" found naturally in some foods is not the kind that sugar addicts have a problem with, generally speaking.

WarMaiden
05-24-2010, 12:25 PM
I'm still not sure why so many people are reluctant to believe just how evil sugar is. I'm still not sure why some people are shocked at the fact that people choose to cut it out of their lives, as if they're *depriving* themselves and their lives can some how not be full and satisfying without it. I'm still not sure why I think I have to have a planned splurge of it every now and then...

I also have to say that I agree with EVERYTHING you said here, Robin. I hate how the sugar monkey still occupies this small part of my brain and tries to break through, especially.

JustBeckyV
05-24-2010, 12:49 PM
Thanks warmaiden! I know that is something I need to address more in my diet with the sugar. I am not sure if I would say I am an addict of sorts but I do enjoy my daily diet dew!!

WarMaiden
05-24-2010, 12:59 PM
I am not sure if I would say I am an addict of sorts but I do enjoy my daily diet dew!!

If you're drinking diet soda, that doesn't have any sucrose or HFCS in it; the sweeteners used will be usually either aspartame or sucralose or another artificial, no-calorie sweetener. Sometimes those sweeteners are a problem for people with sugar addiction in terms of causing cravings, and sometimes they are not; you'd have to experiment and see whether they're a problem for you in particular. (Myself, I use a small quantity of sucralose every day, and I don't believe that it contributes to cravings for me.)

Eliana
05-24-2010, 01:11 PM
I agree with your friend about a billion percent. Alcoholism and sugar addiction are nearly the same thing, run in families, etc. Just as with alcohol, if you are a sugar addict, then cutting it out is the only way to "manage" it, because addictions aren't manageable.



Interesting. I hadn't made that connection either. My dear brother, whom I adore, went through rehab at the ripe old age of 17. I was 15 at the time and was told I have the "personality of an alcoholic". Nice thing to tell a 15 year old! I get it now though. I have an extremely addictive personality, but I use it for good! LOL! I am currently addicted to weight loss and exercise! I have stayed away from alcohol due to that 15 year old girl's fear.

BUT...I dare say I have a sugar addiction. I certainly do better cutting it out completely. I can have the occasional treat, so I'm not AS bad as an alcoholic who truly can never taste that first sip.

WarMaiden
05-24-2010, 01:25 PM
BUT...I dare say I have a sugar addiction. I certainly do better cutting it out completely. I can have the occasional treat, so I'm not AS bad as an alcoholic who truly can never taste that first sip.

There are some alcoholics who can have a sip. For example, I have an uncle with many years of sobriety and activity in AA who on occasion indulges in a good tiramisu...which has rum in it.

It's not really an issue of being "as bad as" or "not as bad as." An addiction simply is; it's not a moral issue. It's a physiological and spiritual issue, as my mom (who celebrated 21 years of sobriety from alcohol yesterday) would put it.

I find it very, very helpful in my sobriety from sugar not to make the whole thing into a moral quandary, but regard it as simply facts. Physiologically, I have a genetically heritable tendency toward addiction to sugar and alcohol (both of which metabolize in a toxic way in the liver). When I used to live as if I just needed to be good (the moralistic idea being that good people are able to be moderate about things like sugar and bad people are not), and my problems would be solved, I was never able to get free of sugar.

Fact: I'm a sugar addict. Fact: Not starting is a thousand times easier than stopping. Fact: I can on occasion have a bite of sugar, but that's fairly dangerous to my sobriety, because the addiction immediately begins calling to me again. Fact: I choose not to do sugar, on a daily basis, and that is helping me stay sane and sober.

caryesings
05-24-2010, 01:30 PM
It's wierd. I had a serious "addiction" to full-sugar candies (Jelly beans, gummi bears, licorice, etc). I ate 8-16 oz of candy nearly every day, sometimes more for more than 30 years (basically as soon as I had my own money and access to a store). I finally stopped cold turkey as of April 2005 as I had discovered there was no satisfying small amount. Frustratingly, had no affect whatsoever on my weight. I hadn't gained the weight from the candy and didn't lose any when I stopped, just now ate healthier foods.

Here's the odd part. I absolutely can eat sugar in other foods with no binge trigger, such as adding sugar to my cereal or berries or eating desserts. So you would think with the battles with candy I've gone through I might be on the "sugar is evil" bandwagon, but I'm not. I still enjoy sweet tasting foods and fit them into my eating plan.

Eliana
05-24-2010, 01:35 PM
Sarah, I don't have that moral hang up with alcohol or sugar. ;) Those are some very interesting insights though. By "as bad" I meant "as addicted" or "I'm not as bad off as..." It's just hard to compare my sugar addiction to that of an alcoholic because I have watched my brother suffer, truly suffer, all these years. Me quitting sugar is NOTHING like what he has had to do several times...and his liver is shot. No, I can't compare it.

JayEll
05-24-2010, 02:04 PM
Refined sugar, corn syrup, maple syrup, even natural foods like honey, can be bad for everyone if consumed in excess--and it doesn't take much to be in excess. Many processed foods and baked goods from a store or bakery contain loads of added sugar--a lot more than used to be put into the recipes! So you can eat excess sugar without even knowing it.

One good rule of thumb is to check the Ingredients part of the label on foods. Sugar or its synonyms (honey, high fructose corn syrup, etc.) should not be the first, second, third, or some people say even the fourth ingredient. (Foods are listed as ingredients on the basis of how much is in the product.)

When sugar is introduced into a population, the incidence of diabetes increases as well. Think there's a correlation??

Jay

Eliana
05-24-2010, 02:13 PM
Jay, I heard on the news this morning that the farmers are gearing up for being out of business as the nation begins eliminate HFCS from its foods!! :carrot: I feel bad for the farmers, but gosh, it's about time. I heard this on the radio so I only got a 10 second snip-it of the story.

PeanutsMom704
05-24-2010, 02:16 PM
I've always thought some people are just super sensitive like people who have celiac disease that can't eat wheat or products with wheat gluten.

I agree with this and the alcohol analogy - that some people are more susceptible and need to completely avoid it, but that others are able to partake in small quantities and it's ok.

Personally, I try to avoid HFCS because that stuff just seems nasty to me. But while I have certain trigger foods that I tend to avoid because I have a tough timing limiting them, I think it's more about those particular foods than sugar itself. And I suspect my inability to limit some foods is more habit or simply enjoying the taste that much, rather than any physiological craving.

I think this is one of those things that everyone has to figure out via trial and error.

MoveMoveMove
05-24-2010, 09:31 PM
Jay, I heard on the news this morning that the farmers are gearing up for being out of business as the nation begins eliminate HFCS from its foods!! :carrot: I feel bad for the farmers, but gosh, it's about time. I heard this on the radio so I only got a 10 second snip-it of the story.


But they don't have to go out of business, they just need to change their product. We need them to produce more healthy local foods. Find providers of seeds that have not been genetically altered and use them to produce healthly crops that can reproduce more healthy crops next year. You know, like it used to be done. Oh to be able to buy a really really good flavorful tomato at the grocery store like we could when I was a kid.........sigh.

GirlyGirlSebas
05-25-2010, 08:21 AM
Jen, thanks for this timely reminder of why I need to avoid the sugar today and every day after this. I'm a a sugar-a-holic and I've known this for years. I know that it makes me moody and depressed. I know that it makes me have headaches and it triggers my allergies. I feel so much better when I'm off the stuff! I also have a strong history of alcoholism and depression in my family. Now, my two daughters have weight issues and are extremely moody. Sounds like this Mom needs to make some changes around here. Again and for good.

rockinrobin
05-25-2010, 11:12 AM
Now, my two daughters have weight issues and are extremely moody. Sounds like this Mom needs to make some changes around here. Again and for good.

I was just speaking about this to someone. We were speaking about however *controlled* and *safe* we make our environment at home, how impossible it is to control their outside world - school, friends home, candy shop and that if you make it *so* off limits to the kids, will it trigger in them the need to *sneak* it from others? I was saying that it would be best to not only limit the foods, but to do our best to educate them as to why they shouldn't have sugar. VERY hard. Just look how hard a time we mature, responsible adults have it - a child. VERY hard. :(

Lori Bell
05-25-2010, 11:36 AM
Oh yea, Sebas! I have had ice pick headaches for years, and I always blamed it on "diet" pop. Nope, it wasn't the diet pop that was causing them, it was the candy bar I ate along with the diet pop.

Funny though, the people I know who suffer from miagraines will not even concider giving up sugar as a "cure". They rather pop pill after pill for relief...I mean, WOW sugar is that powerful. A person is more willing to take drugs with 100's of known side effects than to just give up sugar for a month as a trial.

rakel
05-25-2010, 11:43 AM
Giving up sugar is hard! But I know it is terrible for me so I am trying... so far having reasonable success. Not quite cold turkey, but definitely seeing the grams per day going down. Another goal: buying and eating products without HFCS. Products that aren't even sweet have it in there! It's crazy.

rockinrobin
05-25-2010, 11:49 AM
Giving up sugar is hard! But I know it is terrible for me so I am trying... so far having reasonable success. Not quite cold turkey, but definitely seeing the grams per day going down.

That's just the thing - it would be waaaay easier if you DID give it up cold turkey. I believe you make it harder than need be by *allowing* a little of it in. By keeping that little bit in, it keeps your wants, desires and cravings for it ALIVE. And you need to KILL your wants, desires and cravings for it. And the only way to do that is to TOTALLY ELIMINATE it. Yes, you'll have a rough couple of weeks, but after that you will be AMAZED at how it won't call out to you any more. I urge you to push yourself, challenge yourself - say for 30 days - and stand back and be prepared to be amazed at the changes. I am CERTAIN you won't regret it. Go for it!!!

rakel
05-25-2010, 12:05 PM
That's just the thing - it would be waaaay easier if you DID give it up cold turkey. I believe you make it harder than need be by *allowing* a little of it in. By keeping that little bit in, it keeps your wants, desires and cravings for it ALIVE. And you need to KILL your wants, desires and cravings for it. And the only way to do that is to TOTALLY ELIMINATE it. Yes, you'll have a rough couple of weeks, but after that you will be AMAZED at how it won't call out to you any more. I urge you to push yourself, challenge yourself - say for 30 days - and stand back and be prepared to be amazed at the changes. I am CERTAIN you won't regret it. Go for it!!!

I made a decision a month ago that I was going to stop eating sugar, and since then I have already eliminated the items I was eating on a daily basis with the most sugar. I was shocked to learn that I was eating my entire "daily" allotment of sugar just in my breakfast (protein bar & shake), and that the yogurt I had in my fridge was not much of an improvement. Since then, I have been working toward keeping my sugar intake UNDER the 42g Livestrong allotted me. I've been reading labels, avoiding sugar, HFCS, artificial sweetners, etc. Drinking water or unsweet iced tea instead of sweet tea, soda, etc.

That, and reducing the grains I was eating has already made a significant difference in my weight loss efforts. I also realized that those two things were causing me to eat MORE... not only were they just extra calories, they made me crave more of the same. I did not really realize the extent of it until I cut them out. Now I am eating less food, and am full longer. I know, that's always something that you read, but it's hard to really understand it unless you see the results first-hand.

I know I can't completely avoid sugar as it is naturally in fruits and vegetables, but I am cutting out all processed/refine sugar that I can pinpoint. Nobody is perfect and I'm sure I am probably missing some things... but I do feel better already. I know there is still work to do.

My mom did the same thing -- cutting out refined sugars -- and she too attests that she no longer craves it. That is encouraging to me because we're cut from the same cloth, a lot of the things she confided that she struggled with are the same things that I struggle with, and she's lost over 80lbs. I know I can do this, but I have to battle my temptations and learn to not give in, which I know doesn't happen overnight.

rockinrobin
05-25-2010, 01:41 PM
My mom did the same thing -- cutting out refined sugars -- and she too attests that she no longer craves it. That is encouraging to me because we're cut from the same cloth, a lot of the things she confided that she struggled with are the same things that I struggle with, and she's lost over 80lbs. I know I can do this, but I have to battle my temptations and learn to not give in, which I know doesn't happen overnight.

Don't worry about the sugars in fruits and veggies, that's not the same issue. Yes, you DO have to battle those temptations - temporarily. But every time you give in, you have to start the cycle all over again and it is a vicious cycle at that. As hard as it may be for a few weeks (probably less) it really is wisest to NOT give in. You can do it!!!

As far as the headaches, I used to have them all the time, popped ibuprofen like crazy. Well since day one of my *new lifestyle* I stopped having headaches. Like totally and completely stopped having headaches. It's been close to 4 years now and I've had a headache one time - can anyone guess when that occurred???? After an evening of eating banana pancakes. Other than that - zero, zippo, nada, zilch.

No more sugar - no more headaches, no more lethargy, no more sugar stupor, carb coma, sleepiness at 3:00 in the afternoon.

WarMaiden
05-25-2010, 01:52 PM
As far as the headaches, I used to have them all the time, popped ibuprofen like crazy. Well since day one of my *new lifestyle* I stopped having headaches. Like totally and completely stopped having headaches. It's been close to 4 years now and I've had a headache one time - can anyone guess when that occurred???? After an evening of eating banana pancakes. Other than that - zero, zippo, nada, zilch.

No more sugar - no more headaches, no more lethargy, no more sugar stupor, carb coma, sleepiness at 3:00 in the afternoon.

Ditto. I used to get "tension headaches" nearly every night, and would need to take ibuprofen and have my husband to give me a very hard neckrub just so that the headache would subside and I could get to sleep.

I don't think I've had a single significant headache since quitting sugar cold turkey. Which is a little unfortunate since I can no longer claim that I *need* to get neckrubs from my husband :/ ;)

Michelle98272
05-25-2010, 01:58 PM
Oh yea, Sebas! I have had ice pick headaches for years, and I always blamed it on "diet" pop. Nope, it wasn't the diet pop that was causing them, it was the candy bar I ate along with the diet pop.

Funny though, the people I know who suffer from miagraines will not even concider giving up sugar as a "cure". They rather pop pill after pill for relief...I mean, WOW sugar is that powerful. A person is more willing to take drugs with 100's of known side effects than to just give up sugar for a month as a trial.

Not on topic at all but re: migraines and sugar. One thing that helps my migraines is dark dark chocolate. Seriously. It's a combination thing...Ibuprofen, a cup of coffee and dark chocolate and a dark room if I can't get to my migraine medication. I don't have migraines often but when I do the chocolate helps. I don't eat chocolate at other times, never crave it. But it does seem to help with the headache. It an interesting thing to wonder if my migraines would go away completely if I gave up sugar all together? Hmmmmm...?

Back to our regularly scheduled thread.

WarMaiden
05-25-2010, 02:07 PM
It an interesting thing to wonder if my migraines would go away completely if I gave up sugar all together? Hmmmmm...?

You don't have to wonder. You can experiment and find out whether they'd go away. Why not throw sugar away for just 30 days and see how you feel? If you want to go back to it, you always can. But you won't know what eliminating it would do for you until you try it.

Lyn2007
05-25-2010, 02:16 PM
I used to wake up EVERY DAY with a headache, and about twice a week I'd get a migraine. A real bad one with auras and visual disturbances and all that. My mother suffered from migraines all ehr life, had cat scans and everything and never found the issue. When I stopped eating sugar cold turkey 3 months ago, I NEVER HAD ANOTHER HEADACHE, except for a very mild one related to PMS. NO migraines, nothing! Also I was having heart palpitations on an almost daily basis and my dr thought is was caffeine, but even with no caffeine I was having them. Stopped sugar, NO more palpitations, EVEN WHEN I added unsweetened coffee back into my diet.

rockinrobin
05-25-2010, 02:36 PM
Reading all of these stories - well, why don't more people know about this? Why aren't more folks aware of the horrible damage that sugar is doing to us? I wonder how many people look and look for answers to solve their headaches, their grogginess, their fuzziness, their out of it-ness (all things that I experienced) - are doctors telling them to cut out sugar? Gets me so angry. We've got seat belt laws, we've got no smoking laws, we've got no drinking laws.....

For years and years, decades in fact, I thought I couldn't live without sugar - that it would be too hard, too unpleasant - and it was the other way around the whole time. It was too hard, too unpleasant living WITH sugar in my life.

mandalinn82
05-25-2010, 02:47 PM
But they don't have to go out of business, they just need to change their product. We need them to produce more healthy local foods. Find providers of seeds that have not been genetically altered and use them to produce healthly crops that can reproduce more healthy crops next year. You know, like it used to be done. Oh to be able to buy a really really good flavorful tomato at the grocery store like we could when I was a kid.........sigh.

This would be true for farmers, except they can't really make money this way. The reason is complicated, but essentially, the government heavily subsidizes production of corn and soybeans, meaning farmers make more than market value for those crops when they grow them (A LOT more than market value). This resulted in a glut of corn and soy, thus all of the HCFS, soy isolates, and corn and soy-based additives flooding into the food supply...they're cheaper, because the government pays extra for them to be grown (out of our tax dollars, by the way).

So while ideally farmers could just switch to other products, without the government backup to do so via a drastically altered Farm Bill, they're still going to go out of business (unless people are willing to pay a premium for healthier foods, which the market has shown that most people won't...obviously 3FC is an exception here, but most people would rather buy cheap, corn-and-soy based calories subsidized by the government than expensive, veggie-based calories).

Michelle98272
05-25-2010, 02:54 PM
You don't have to wonder. You can experiment and find out whether they'd go away. Why not throw sugar away for just 30 days and see how you feel? If you want to go back to it, you always can. But you won't know what eliminating it would do for you until you try it.


This journey to better health has been one of many baby steps. I will put this one in the back of my brain for the next baby step once I've mastered the one I am working on right now :) which is truly staying on plan 100%, the next one is exercising. I could probably do them concurrently but it's all about baby steps for me. 30 days is definitely do able though...I'm pretty much sugar free right now...wouldn't be hard to go all the way.

milliondollarbbw
05-25-2010, 02:59 PM
I watched this entire documentary yesterday. If I wasn't convinced already that sugar was evil, I would be now..... here's a clip from You Tube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8ezchj4wO8

What is even more apalling is how trusted organizations like the AMA and the American Diabetes Association were so easily bought by sugar manufacturers for their silence about the truth that sugar kills you.

thank you for the link. I was worried I was going to open a very sad post. :( Whew...thank goodness it is just youtube. :) I was very worried!

kaplods
05-25-2010, 04:00 PM
When I first found that low-carb dieting was THE best way for me to eat (not only for weight loss, but for other health issues I have, also) I believed that I was probably "rare." I thought "most people" can eat a lot more sugar without problem.

The more I read about low-carb and paleo eating (also called caveman or primal diets - the theory that man is designed to eat relatively low-carb. The diets differ on what modern foods can be eaten in moderation - and what moderation means, but all focus on removing most or all grain products, very high sugar/carb fruits and vegetables and other high-carb modern foods) the more people I think probably should be eating this way.

Even "natural" sugars will act just like processed sugar in excess. I've proven that to myself on more than one occasion (usually with watermelon, ranier cherries, lychees, and young, fresh sweet corn).

Until I went low-carb, I had no idea how much sugar was hidden in my diet (because all carbohydrates break down into sugar, it can be very easy - even eating naturally, to get a lot more sugar in your blood stream than you want or need).

For most of my life, I've gotten most of my carbs from "healthy" sources. Eating "healthy carbs" much more often than "processed" foods. I can maintain my obesity just as easily on quinoa, almond butter, and lots of fruit as I can on white flour, potatoes, and added sugar.

How much sugar is too much, and what "counts" as sugar? It's not an easy question to answer, but I am convinced that sugar is my enemy - and not just sucrose. Everything that turns to glucose in my body, has to be treated (at best) very suspiciously. Most of the time I KNOW that, but it's surprising how many times I can say to myself "I probably shouldn't eat this much fruit (or other "natural" high-carb food), but it's ok, because they're healthy carbs." Then when I feel lousy and don't lose weight that week, I'm surprised (only, I'm really not - I've done it too many times).

This week was a perfect example. I bought a lb of tiny mangoes (so cute, and so tasty) and some bananas (husband hates both), both were very ripe, so I ate more than I normally allow myself in a day so they wouldn't be wasted (I could have sliced and frozen them, but I wasn't thinking - I shouldn't have bought them both). It triggered a carb-craving that ended in my eating a lot of high-carb foods, and feeling like crap on Sunday and Monday. I even had a flare of the autoimmune skin issues (the skin of my face becomes inflammed, the skin swelling making the skin look like a bright pink orange. It itches, flakes and and burns, and if I don't get the inflammation down, I will get patches of weepy, raw, open sores that crust (which feels like someone took a brillo pad to sunburn). At it's worst, my nose will swell to twice it's normal size, and my lip will swell so much that it actually becomes difficult to lift the upper lip far enough to see the gumline.

I've found that sugar is the culprit. To avoid the physical pain (not to mention whatever permanent damage it's doing), not to mention the embarassment of looking like a horror movie victim, you'd think I'd find it easy to avoid sugar. Yeah, you'd think.

Yeah, the more I experience, and the more I read, the more I'm convinced that almost everyone needs less sugar in their diet. How much they have to cut, and what consequences there are for not doing so - well, I think that varies a lot.

Michelle98272
05-25-2010, 04:08 PM
Reading all of these stories - well, why don't more people know about this? Why aren't more folks aware of the horrible damage that sugar is doing to us? I wonder how many people look and look for answers to solve their headaches, their grogginess, their fuzziness, their out of it-ness (all things that I experienced) - are doctors telling them to cut out sugar? Gets me so angry. We've got seat belt laws, we've got no smoking laws, we've got no drinking laws.....

For years and years, decades in fact, I thought I couldn't live without sugar - that it would be too hard, too unpleasant - and it was the other way around the whole time. It was too hard, too unpleasant living WITH sugar in my life.

Not to start political debate but I sure hope the government doesn't get involved in this deeper than just guidelines. Prohibition of alcohol was a dismal failure. I'd prefer less government not more especially in lifestyle type issues. Please don't tell me (Gov't) what I can/can't eat, can/can't sleep with, can/can't say, whether I can/can't pray, etc. But again, that's probably a whole other topic :dizzy:

mandalinn82
05-25-2010, 04:39 PM
Not to start political debate but I sure hope the government doesn't get involved in this deeper than just guidelines. Prohibition of alcohol was a dismal failure. I'd prefer less government not more especially in lifestyle type issues. Please don't tell me (Gov't) what I can/can't eat, can/can't sleep with, can/can't say, whether I can/can't pray, etc. But again, that's probably a whole other topic

My issue is that the government is doing this now, really, by subsidizing corn. In an economically/price driven market (which food is, especially in this economy when people are trying to cut back), subsidies on corn and soy and the resultant flood of cheap corn and soy based junk foods have absolutely had a strong influence on diet. Right now, that influence is just pointing people toward foods that are not healthy. If the government were to attempt to influence people toward buying foods that were healthier (fruit and veggie subsidies, etc), I'd support that, if only to reverse the damage that the government is already doing with corn/soy subsidies.

Karen925
05-25-2010, 06:08 PM
A question for those with sugar issues, do you find artificial sugar (Splenda, etc...) equally bad in terms of side effects? Also I saw the clip, is there a full documentary somewhere to view?
Thanks,

junebug41
05-25-2010, 06:16 PM
My issue is that the government is doing this now, really, by subsidizing corn. In an economically/price driven market (which food is, especially in this economy when people are trying to cut back), subsidies on corn and soy and the resultant flood of cheap corn and soy based junk foods have absolutely had a strong influence on diet. Right now, that influence is just pointing people toward foods that are not healthy. If the government were to attempt to influence people toward buying foods that were healthier (fruit and veggie subsidies, etc), I'd support that, if only to reverse the damage that the government is already doing with corn/soy subsidies.

Totally agree. The influence is very much there, just not in support of healthy food. I wonder if more people would be aware of that if they suddenly shifted their focus?

WarMaiden
05-25-2010, 06:54 PM
A question for those with sugar issues, do you find artificial sugar (Splenda, etc...) equally bad in terms of side effects?

Side effects like making me pre-diabetic and pre-hypertensive, causing 100 pounds of extra fat on my body, headaches, muscle aches, lethargy, insomnia, poor sleep, blurry thinking, etc? ...Nope.

For one thing, since sweeteners such as Splenda and stevia are far sweeter by volume than sucrose (white sugar) is, it's hard to eat as much of them in terms of quantity. So any potential effects are going to be smaller.

For another thing, eliminating sugar from my diet has made my sense of sweet taste (and taste overall) much stronger, so I only need a very small quantity of any kind of sweetener, when I want something sweet. Stuff like spinach, almonds, cinnamon, and milk taste sweet to me now. It doesn't take a lot of Splenda to enhance that, if I want it.

I could see calorie-free sweeteners being a problem when they are consumed in large volumes, but I don't believe that any of us who have eliminated sugar do that. And to know why we don't, you'd really have to try out going off of sugar...it just changes everything.

rockinrobin
05-25-2010, 07:09 PM
This journey to better health has been one of many baby steps. I will put this one in the back of my brain for the next baby step once I've mastered the one I am working on right now :) which is truly staying on plan 100%, .

I know it's hard to fathom, at least it was for me, but by staying sugar free for 30 days, well, I'm pretty certain that that would GREATLY increase your chances of being on plan 100%. Just something to think about....

kaplods
05-25-2010, 07:25 PM
A question for those with sugar issues, do you find artificial sugar (Splenda, etc...) equally bad in terms of side effects? Also I saw the clip, is there a full documentary somewhere to view?
Thanks,


I have no problem with either aspartame or Splenda (though I prefer Splenda). I also find that the fewer "real" carbs I eat, the fewer carb cravings I have, and the less artificial sweetener I need, when I do want something sweet.

WarMaiden
05-25-2010, 07:30 PM
I know it's hard to fathom, at least it was for me, but by staying sugar free for 30 days, well, I'm pretty certain that that would GREATLY increase your chances of being on plan 100%. Just something to think about....

I once again agree with Robin a billion percent. A lot of current diet dogma says, "Well, if you deny yourself a thing, then you're just going to binge on it at some point." And yet the experience of those of us who have eliminated sugar is exactly the opposite: If we keep including even a small quantity of it in our diets, THAT sets us up for binging, whereas if we totally get rid of it, we can be completely FREE of binge behaviors and other dietary struggles.

When I started at this in 2008, I also had a very "baby steps" attitude (and still do...I'm constantly making tiny changes to improve myself), so sugar wasn't the first thing I quit. The very first thing I quit was caffeine. But the second thing I quit was sugar, because I knew in my heart of hearts that it was the very most important and fundamental change I could make.

milliondollarbbw
05-25-2010, 07:36 PM
I once again agree with Robin a billion percent. A lot of current diet dogma says, "Well, if you deny yourself a thing, then you're just going to binge on it at some point." And yet the experience of those of us who have eliminated sugar is exactly the opposite: If we keep including even a small quantity of it in our diets, THAT sets us up for binging, whereas if we totally get rid of it, we can be completely FREE of binge behaviors and other dietary struggles.

When I started at this in 2008, I also had a very "baby steps" attitude (and still do...I'm constantly making tiny changes to improve myself), so sugar wasn't the first thing I quit. The very first thing I quit was caffeine. But the second thing I quit was sugar, because I knew in my heart of hearts that it was the very most important and fundamental change I could make.

I agree with both of you!---sugar can be eeevvvvviiiiiiiillllllll for some of us. I have gone sugar free for multiple months at a time, and it definitely helped with lessening the amount of binges I had, and when I combined not eating sugar with not eating foods that quickly convert to sugar, I ended up losing a good amount of weight AND my "constant hunger" really went down. I strongly suggest not having sugar if you can avoid it, if you find that it is a trigger for a binge.

Stay strong, you can do it! :)

rockinrobin
05-25-2010, 10:49 PM
I strongly suggest not having sugar if you can avoid it, if you find that it is a trigger for a binge.


It's not a matter of avoiding it - *if you can*, IMO, it's a matter of you have to make it your business TO avoid it.

And for me, I have no problems from using Splenda.

A lot of current diet dogma says, "Well, if you deny yourself a thing, then you're just going to binge on it at some point." And yet the experience of those of us who have eliminated sugar is exactly the opposite: If we keep including even a small quantity of it in our diets, THAT sets us up for binging, whereas if we totally get rid of it, we can be completely FREE of binge behaviors and other dietary struggles.

Exactly. Drives me crazy when I hear you can have everything, *just in moderation*. Ummmm, noooo, I don't think so. Does anyone ever say that about an alcoholic and his alcohol consumption? Ummm, nooooo, I don't think so.

milliondollarbbw
05-25-2010, 11:35 PM
I want to add that I really do think that it matters 1) how much sugar you are ingesting, and 2) what kind of sugar.

I currently have in my fridge some sweets that are made very naturally....oddly enough, I have had them almost a month (yes, they are still good), but I did not binge on them, and they are super super good! I am shocked! One item I could imagine myself bingeing on, but didn't.

On the opposite end, I bought a whole box of doughnuts---about 8 decent sized ones on Sunday, and only have 2 left today...and I may eat one today (just being honest). Plus, i have been having those little mini doughnut packs, about 2 each weekend, and I literally scarf them down. I have to stop myself from eating a whole pack at once.

So, I think that it is a combo of how much sugar, what type of sugar, if it is eaten in combination with other foods (i.e, sugar and white flour) and the form it is eaten in (i.e., added sugar to drinks, hfcs, raw turbinado sugar, etc.)

mandalinn82
05-26-2010, 12:27 AM
What each of us can have in moderation vs. cutting out is, as with everything else, a personal decision we need to make by listening to our own bodies. I was big and ate a LOT of sweets, but sugar is something I can have in moderation without throwing myself off track. Some people can't.

I'd encourage everyone considering giving up sugar to make that decision based on your own body and what it tells you about how sugar makes you feel and what cravings it gives you.

rockinrobin
05-26-2010, 07:07 AM
Yes, it is an individual thing.

But I would urge everyone to at least experiment with eliminating it cold turkey. And not to dread it. But to actually be excited about it as it may be a miraculous discovery to you. Give yourself the challenge. LOVE Warmaiden's idea of *trying it out* for 30 days. Just 30 days. And than after that one can re-assess it.

Heather
05-26-2010, 08:18 AM
So much of weight loss is an individual thing. I find that there are lots of things that have sugar in them that I can completely eat in moderation (dark chocolate being one of them) and others that I really can't (cake and donuts). As for sugars in foods like fruit, they rarely seem to affect me in a way that affects moderation. So I really appreciate the discussion about what sugar IS in the first place.

I know other people are different, and I also know that the only way to figure out what our individual situation is IS to experiment. However, I do think we have to be careful about how we present our own experience. Sometimes when people tell me something is the best and only solution that I must try because it is THE answer, I experience what psychologists call reactance. I want to do the opposite!

rockinrobin
05-26-2010, 08:49 AM
I know other people are different, and I also know that the only way to figure out what our individual situation is IS to experiment. However, I do think we have to be careful about how we present our own experience. Sometimes when people tell me something is the best and only solution that I must try because it is THE answer, I experience what psychologists call reactance. I want to do the opposite!

Well, yes, I think one SHOULD experiment. But it's not as if I'm sticking a gun to someone's head and saying "do this or else" ;). I don't think what I've suggested as an experiment is so outrageous (lowering calories to 800, strictly eating cabbage soup all day, running 3 hours a day etc.), but mind you , I do know that it probably DOES sound *extreme* to some, but hopefully not in the same way. Hard to put my thoughts down in words here.

If you're on this site in the first place, I think one IS looking for support, encouragement, and *perhaps* - others experiences, feelings, and to find out what *has worked for them*,not necessarily to follow it certainly, but just to *hear* and this thread in particular - well, sugar DOES have it's own separate set of issues.

As for wanting to do the opposite, well, I have heard of people feeling this way, but ummmm, yeah, it kinda makes me think, "well, yeah - I'll show them, I wouldn't even consider doing it now - yeah, I'll show them." But to who's detriment???? But it is an individual thing.

I know it sounds insane to give up sugar cold turkey, I had heard for years it was the *way to go*, and I did resist it, but not in an "I'll show you kind of way", but in a "there's no way on earth I can do this" kind of way. But feeling as if it was my last resort, that it was do or die, I gave it a try and the results *for me* speak for themselves. I have no regrets. Not even a little bit. 165 lbs down for almost 3 years now, incredible doctors visits, self confidence, self worth, self respect, boundless energy, worry free nights, no headaches, no heartburn/reflux, GIGANTIC beautiful wardrobe, etc... Yeah, I've got no regrets. :)

But yes, it is an individual thing.

synger
05-26-2010, 09:38 AM
A question for those with sugar issues, do you find artificial sugar (Splenda, etc...) equally bad in terms of side effects? Also I saw the clip, is there a full documentary somewhere to view?
Thanks,

Like WarMaiden, I find that as I've cut down on sweets, "normal" things taste sweet to me (my 9 yo daughter gives me the "you're so weird, Mom" look when I talk about the sweetness of whole wheat bread). So I don't use much artificial sweetener, either. But before my taste buds changed, I drank a lot of diet soda, and found that sometimes it stalled my loss. Not sure if it was because of the chemicals, or because I wasn't counting calories at the time and other things were sneaking in. Cutting back on diet soda happened around the time I got tighter about tracking things, so it could have been either.

synger
05-26-2010, 09:48 AM
I once again agree with Robin a billion percent. A lot of current diet dogma says, "Well, if you deny yourself a thing, then you're just going to binge on it at some point." And yet the experience of those of us who have eliminated sugar is exactly the opposite: If we keep including even a small quantity of it in our diets, THAT sets us up for binging, whereas if we totally get rid of it, we can be completely FREE of binge behaviors and other dietary struggles.

When I started at this in 2008, I also had a very "baby steps" attitude (and still do...I'm constantly making tiny changes to improve myself), so sugar wasn't the first thing I quit. The very first thing I quit was caffeine. But the second thing I quit was sugar, because I knew in my heart of hearts that it was the very most important and fundamental change I could make.

I think the most interesting thing in my journey has been the realization that sweets are not the most "binge-triggering" foods for me. Sure, I like sweets, but I'd much rather eat a whole loaf of fresh-from-the-oven bread, or a box of Cheez-its.

To me, baked goods are triggers much more than sweets. I can FEEL my physical and emotional reaction when I walk through the bakery section of the store and smell the bread. I've had the Dark Chocolate Chili bar from my Christmas stocking for months, eating one square every couple of weeks. I can do sweets in some moderation (if I weren't watching carbs due to blood glucose issues). But if I eat more than one slice of bread at a meal, the next meal I want more, and the next day all bets are off.

That's addiction.

GirlyGirlSebas
05-26-2010, 10:26 AM
Bingeing and weight loss aside, I think we're missing a very important issue here.....refined sugars and HFCS are not healthy! They do dangerous things in our bodies. They impact our children and their development. They are contributing to an epidemic of diabetes in our society. The cause inflammation within the body, heart disease and premature ageing. Seriously, what health benefit do they provide? Many of us know that we can retrain ourselves to taste the delicious sweetness in naturally sweet foods. Why do we need the added sugars? I don't think we need it at all. And, how much is safe? I'm not sure we even have that answer yet. So, until we do have the answers, do we play Russian roulette and take a chance? I guess that is a decision we all have to make for ourselves, right?

Eliana
05-26-2010, 10:33 AM
Like WarMaiden, I find that as I've cut down on sweets, "normal" things taste sweet to me (my 9 yo daughter gives me the "you're so weird, Mom" look when I talk about the sweetness of whole wheat bread). So I don't use much artificial sweetener, either. But before my taste buds changed, I drank a lot of diet soda, and found that sometimes it stalled my loss. Not sure if it was because of the chemicals, or because I wasn't counting calories at the time and other things were sneaking in. Cutting back on diet soda happened around the time I got tighter about tracking things, so it could have been either.

As in broccoli is sweet!! :rofl: I was thinking about this last night. I was lamenting the fact that restaurants cover broccoli with salt and butter and I wondered why when broccoli is so naturally sweet! :dizzy: But I did not think that before cutting sugar out. Another sweet veggie is fried cabbage! Oh, I love the flavor a little canola oil brings out in cabbage. And onions?! Yup, I'm weird.

milliondollarbbw
05-26-2010, 01:15 PM
I think the best thing to do when we are presented with new information, is to really look within ourselves.

If you don't like desserts, always drink diet soda, and wouldn't dream of having sugary breakfast cereal, then maybe cutting out sugar isn't an issue for you. But if any of those things do apply to you, then maybe cutting out sugar would be good.

Of course, since we are all different, you will want to make sure you are healthy and ok before trying something that deals with adjusting your insulin levels----no sugar diet is great for me and keeps my insulin levels low, but for others with unknown diabetes problems, they may want to talk to their doctor first.

Here is a good example of our uniqueness as individuals-----

Some people do exceptionally well on a very high grain and veggie and fruit vegetarian diet. They tend to lose lots of weight and feel very energized.

Other people need a bit more protein, and do not tolerate the grains very well. they may look "puffy" or a bit bloated, though they think they are eating very well.

So, take everything on here with a grain of salt. I am not offended when someone raves about ww, because I know it just isn't the right thing for me. :)

kaplods
05-26-2010, 02:04 PM
If you don't like desserts, always drink diet soda, and wouldn't dream of having sugary breakfast cereal, then maybe cutting out sugar isn't an issue for you. But if any of those things do apply to you, then maybe cutting out sugar would be good.


And yet despite this being true, sugar (or carbohydrates in general) might still be an issue for you.

Because desserts, regular soda, and sugary cereals have never been very appealing to me (except during TOM/PMS when chocolate calls my name), I never dreamed that sugar or carbohydrates could be my problem.

It took me a very long time to realize that carbohydrates (and not just refined carbohydrates) are an issue for me, and that includes fruits, starchy vegetables and grains too.

I can pass up a candybar without much trouble (assuming it's not TOM), but don't get between me and barbecued ribs (in a very sweet, smokey sauce) or general tso's chicken. I'm a sweet-and-savory junkie.


Not everyone has a problem with sugar, but there are also many different kinds of sugar problems.

Of purely sweet foods, I do love fruit, and can easily overindulge (I once ate 3lbs of Ranier cherries in a single day).

But most of my trigger and binge foods are high starch or hidden sugar foods. Savory sauces that contain sugar, or high-starch foods that quickly break down into sugar after you eat them like breads, potatoes, and crackers.....

milliondollarbbw
05-26-2010, 02:08 PM
I understand the passion about the topic. It is like when you find out something that has so helped you, you want to share it with everybody, especially if you think they have the same issue. I have a loved one who has a problem with sugar and I wish they would try the whole omission of sugar, but instead they are trying moderation, and for some of us, certain foods just cannot be had in routine moderation as they lead us to binge or obsess over it. But I have to accept that they will do that on their own time and their own way. It does frustrate me, but I just have to learn how to be more encouraging, but less insistent about it. Plus, my weightloss hasn't been so great, so I am not a shining example of how one should eat.

oneLess
05-26-2010, 02:49 PM
So if one was to do this 30 days no sugar thing what do you eat? What do you not eat.
NO HFCS and nothing that has sugar in the first 3 or 4 ingredients. Would you still eat fruits? Some breads? Is it a low-carb thing?
Lay it out for me in black and white cause I am having a hard time imagining what I could eat.
Thanks!

WarMaiden
05-26-2010, 03:17 PM
So if one was to do this 30 days no sugar thing what do you eat? What do you not eat.
NO HFCS and nothing that has sugar in the first 3 or 4 ingredients. Would you still eat fruits? Some breads? Is it a low-carb thing?
Lay it out for me in black and white cause I am having a hard time imagining what I could eat.
Thanks!

Well, if you're looking for a very structured approach to doing this, I'd recommend trying out South Beach. On South Beach, you'd eliminate all refined sugars, all grains, and all fruit for a period of two weeks. Then you'd slowly add fruit and whole grains back into your diet and see whether any of that stuff triggers you. (South Beach does not include any refined sugars or refined grains during the weight loss period.) At the end of a period of careful experimentation and self-examination, you'd know whether or not whole grains and fruit were a problem for you, and you'd have a VERY healthy foundation for your diet.

If you'd like to take a non-structured approach, then I'd recommend simply cutting out all foods that contain refined sugars and refined grains and see what happens. More than likely you'll go through a period of a few days of adjustment in which you may feel lethargic, irritable, carb-craving, and headachey. (These symptoms can be alleviated by eating some good carbs such as dairy or beans.) But after you adjust, you'll find that you feel really remarkably different and better.

To give you an example of stuff I eat in my non-sugar diet, here's stuff I'm eating today and yesterday:

* Vegetables: Brussels sprouts, broccoli, spinach, carrots, tomatoes, romaine lettuce, red pepper, yam, avocado, salsa.

* Fresh and dried fruit, in very controlled quantities: Blueberries, mango, grapefruit, cherries, dried figs.

* Nuts in small quantities: Almonds, peanut butter, ground flax seed.

* Meat: Pork chop, chicken breast, ground turkey, eggs.

* Dairy: Yogurt, cottage cheese, feta cheese, milk.

* Beverages: Water, unsweetened tea of various kinds.

On a daily basis, I don't eat any grains, but I do include some grains in my diet during the weekend. Usually that's the whole wheat bread that I make at home.

MoveMoveMove
05-26-2010, 03:24 PM
I stopped at KFC for dinner last night and asked for honey for my biscuit. I was thinking about this thread and the forms sugar takes when I looked down and discovered what used to be a packet of honey is now a packet of "honey sauce." I flipped it over and found that the first ingredient is......HFCS. WTH? Why couldn't they just leave it pure honey?

WarMaiden
05-26-2010, 03:28 PM
I stopped at KFC for dinner last night and asked for honey for my biscuit. I was thinking about this thread and the forms sugar takes when and looked down and discovered what used to be a packet of honey is now a packet of "honey sauce." I flipped it over and found that the first ingredient is......HFCS. WTH? Why couldn't they just leave it pure honey?

HFCS is incredibly cheap, due to government subsides, as mandalinn posted above. Honey is not cheap. It's a pretty easy equation for a big business whose customers are not very likely to be interested in evaulating the actual content of their food.

That being said, HFCS is not necessarily any worse for you than honey or sucrose. If you eat any sweetener in the quantities likely to be a problem, you're going to have a problem. Switching out HFCS for sucrose (as the soda companies are doing lately) won't help a public that's drinking, on average...I can't remember the exact number, but isn't it something like 3 12-oz sodas per day?

milliondollarbbw
05-26-2010, 04:44 PM
HFCS is incredibly cheap, due to government subsides, as mandalinn posted above. Honey is not cheap. It's a pretty easy equation for a big business whose customers are not very likely to be interested in evaulating the actual content of their food.

That being said, HFCS is not necessarily any worse for you than honey or sucrose. If you eat any sweetener in the quantities likely to be a problem, you're going to have a problem. Switching out HFCS for sucrose (as the soda companies are doing lately) won't help a public that's drinking, on average...I can't remember the exact number, but isn't it something like 3 12-oz sodas per day?

I have seen those pro-HFCS commercials and laugh like crazy----similar to all of the oil commercials where they care so much about the environment that they are focused on saving a rare butterfly. Sigh. Sorry, just not believing it.

There is something about hfcs that react to our bodies differently than say, raw sugar. I don't think I want to down as many natural sodas made with raw sugar as I would the hfcs. I think there is a tie into how differently hfcs affect our insulin. Of course, there are probably research showing both sides of the spectrum.

mandalinn82
05-26-2010, 04:51 PM
http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S26/91/22K07/

Any kind of sugar in excess, of course, is bad (heck, ANYTHING in excess is bad). But there is some emerging research that, sort of like trans fats vs saturated fats, HFCS is extra bad. It's a different substance with different metabolic effects.

For me, cutting out all sugar wasn't necessary or sustainable. But I DO have to eliminate HCFS to be successful and have relatively few cravings.

Karen925
05-26-2010, 06:09 PM
Well, if you're looking for a very structured approach to doing this, I'd recommend trying out South Beach. On South Beach, you'd eliminate all refined sugars, all grains, and all fruit for a period of two weeks. Then you'd slowly add fruit and whole grains back into your diet and see whether any of that stuff triggers you. (South Beach does not include any refined sugars or refined grains during the weight loss period.) At the end of a period of careful experimentation and self-examination, you'd know whether or not whole grains and fruit were a problem for you, and you'd have a VERY healthy foundation for your diet.


I do like many of SB tennents. I use them still in addition to CC. Doing this has made my use of artificial sweetners much less. I like Splenda but 1 packet a day and 1/2 a diet soda every so often works for me.

nelie
05-27-2010, 01:32 PM
I started using South Beach as a general guideline. 60-70% of the foods I eat are carbs but very little is 'sugar' in that. I eat dark chocolate which has some sugar and I eat natural sugars like fruits. Personally, I don't like refined sugars or artificial sweeteners so I try to avoid both for the most part. I also think refined carbs can definitely trigger binges/cravings so I'm careful about those as well. (ie I am more likely to want a bagel than a candy bar)

Overall, I think we each need to find out what works for ourselves. Some people can keep things in their diet without any issue, some can't. It takes a little experimenting to find out what works for you though.

Jen415
05-30-2010, 10:56 PM
Let me tell you what has been working for ME:

On March 5 of this year, I gave up sugar, flour and wheat in all its many forms. The only "sugar" I consume is 12 oz of low glycemic fruit--6 oz at breakfast and 6 oz at bedtime with a dairy snack. I also have complex carbs at each meal (like steel cut oats, sweet potatoes, quinoa, millet, white potatoes (baked usually). I have 4 oz of protein at each meal, and 4 cups of veggies daily (2 cooked, 2 raw). I exclude things like corn because it is a food that triggers me to eat more.

As far as sweetners, I usually use liquid saccahrin (sp?), but most of the time dont use anything at all. After 86 days on my food plan, everything tastes differently--some for the good, some for not so good.

This is the ONLY plan that has really worked for me. As long as I stick to my food plan and work my 12 step program, I will be successful and sane.

All I know is, FOR ME, sugar is poison and will kill me if I consume it. Just like if I consumed rat poison.

Everyone must make their own decisions about their health based on reliable information and what they truly believe they can live with.