Weight Loss Support - Can fat girls say fat?




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tiggergirl9
04-30-2010, 10:57 PM
I just wanted to run this by you guys...

Two of my friends called Shakira fat on the American Idol appearance on their Facebook pages. I agreed she looked like she had gained a few sizes and looked unhealthy for her height. I looked up her height and approximate weight and indeed it was in the overweight category.

So then I mentioned to my bf that my friends and I had thought Shakira looked fat on that show (ps he's a shakira fan the only one I think) and it degraded into an argument where it seemed like he was telling me I could have no opinion on any other person since I myself am overweight.

So what's the protocol these days, am I allowed to use the word fat in public or only between the girls? Am I overreacting to a normal reaction? I cannot imagine doing anything but agree to the person's right to an opinion if my partner were to mention someone I liked had gained weight, worn an outfit they didn't like, grown a third eyeball whatever.


kaplods
04-30-2010, 11:13 PM
Overweight or not, you have the right to have and voice an opinion, but so does your boyfriend.

I have to admit that it rubs me the wrong way when I hear anyone criticising celebs for gaining weight, but especially when the person who is criticising is overweight themselves (or has any other noticeable defect). Even if I suspect the comment isn't meant to criticise, the image of the "pot calling the kettle black" comes to mind.

Shmead
04-30-2010, 11:17 PM
I may well be over sensitive, but I never use the word "fat" to describe weight*. I've heard too many people use it with too much scorn.


*Unless I am being ironic, or imitating a scornful person, or self-deprecating (and I try to not do that). I never say it in earnest.


beaka
04-30-2010, 11:18 PM
Can I say fat in general? Yes. But when I opened the thread I didn't think it would be directed at someone.

I know what it feels like to be called fat. Or feel like people are talking about how fat I am. I don't want to do that to someone else. Do I notice when other people gain weight? Yes. But it's a struggle I know very well. I'm sure that they're very aware of the weight they've gained. Do you think they need your help to figure it out?

Shmead
04-30-2010, 11:22 PM
Oh, and this thread is totally the opposite of what I expected. I expected "can I call people "fat" since I am fat, and it's not meant hatefully", not "can I call people fat even though I am fat, or do I have to wait until I am skinny to use this word to describe someone else?".

Either way, my original position works: no one should call anyone fat. It's mean-spirited.

beaka
04-30-2010, 11:23 PM
I just googled her. Um... that's definitely not where I would apply the fat label. She doesn't seem to have rock hard abs anymore, but she's not fat.

luciddepths
04-30-2010, 11:32 PM
I dont think we should be calling them or anyone fat.. i duno.. I've seen pics of her and what not and she weighs what 130-150 lbs? imagine if she weighed what i do. .. but shes just gained a few.

kaplods
04-30-2010, 11:35 PM
I didn't respond to the specifics of the situation, because even if she'd gained 100 lbs, I'd have the same fealings, but after beaka's post, I had to look for myself too, and I also have to admit I couldn't find an "unhealthy" looking "fat" picture of Shakira.

Where did you get her weight, or are you just estimating? Dancers often have a higher BMI than "normal" because they have so much more muscle. They weigh more than they "look" because muscle is more compact than fat.

Also, latin culture appreciates curves more than "white-bread" Americans, so "booty" is a sign of beauty.

I do use the word fat to describe myself and use it without fear or prejudice. I never use it in negative ways as a judgement or criticism. I have used the word about other people, but only in ways that I think the person I'm talking about would approve such as "I think Camryn Manheim and Monique are proof that you can be fat and beautiful).

kaplods
04-30-2010, 11:36 PM
Oh, and of course I wish I was as "fat" as Shakira or even Queen Latifah.

TJFitnessDiva
04-30-2010, 11:45 PM
I just saw her on Ellen and my first thought was that she has a belly dancers body :)

As for calling anyone fat in a negative way? Why do that? I know how I felt when people called me that to my face & behind my back and I certainly don't want to be hating on anyone esp with weight.

tiggergirl9
05-01-2010, 12:01 AM
The point of the problem was that my boyfriend acted as though I had no right to criticize anyone about anything that is not perfect on me. My feelings are hurt and my ego is bruised to realize once again that my chosen partner acts cruelly without any consequences.

Ps did I mention my feelings were ouched and perhaps upon reflection it is somewhat cruel to criticize others for whom the criticism serves no useful purpose.

kaplods
05-01-2010, 12:13 AM
I think you don't realize that you bruised his ego as well. You said he was a Shakira fan, and your joke about him being the "only one," suggests that you either don't respect him very much for that choice, or are threatened or jealous of it.

It seems to me (so I certainly would understand if your boyfriend took it this way) that you were using the fat comment to poke at him for liking her (whether he only likes her music or thinks she's pretty).

I know if I tease my husband about his celebrity crush (Drew Barrymore) he gets hurt and defensive too. And if I poke him, he may poke back.


As for your bf acting "as though I had no right to criticize anyone about anything that is not perfect on me," I kind of agree. You have the right of course, but he also has the right to express his distaste for the such comments.

I find "pot calling the kettle black" comments inappropriate and distasteful, myself. They're ugly and crude. You don't have to agree, but if you feel you have the right to express all of your opinions freely, then it's only fair for others to express theirs too.

Criticism breeds criticism, even if it's aimed at a third party who isn't present - even when it's a celebrity that is never going to hear the criticism. When a person is being critical of someone else, it tends to be perceived as an open invitation to criticise the critic.

If you can't handle the criticism, it's best not to criticise (and it doesn't matter whether the person you're criticising is present or not, some people will take it as an invitation to critique your behavior as well).

When you judge, it tends to invite judgement. It's just the way people are wired.

JulieJ08
05-01-2010, 12:14 AM
I just wanted to run this by you guys...

Two of my friends called Shakira fat on the American Idol appearance on their Facebook pages. I agreed she looked like she had gained a few sizes and looked unhealthy for her height. I looked up her height and approximate weight and indeed it was in the overweight category.

So then I mentioned to my bf that my friends and I had thought Shakira looked fat on that show (ps he's a shakira fan the only one I think) and it degraded into an argument where it seemed like he was telling me I could have no opinion on any other person since I myself am overweight.



Was she on Idol more than once? I just found a video of it, and she was fat and unhealthy looking? I'm completely mystified.

TJFitnessDiva
05-01-2010, 12:19 AM
I do realize he probably didn't either say the right set of words or maybe the tone but in all honestly if it caused you to do some reflection then it also helped you grow in an important way :)

kaplods
05-01-2010, 12:52 AM
Was she on Idol more than once? I just found a video of it, and she was fat and unhealthy looking? I'm completely mystified.

Was that the "Hips Don't Lie" video? If so just WOW! That's my absolute ideal body type. Thin, but not boobless. I think I have a serious girl crush on that body, and the bellydance moves.

Cglasscock1
05-01-2010, 01:05 AM
I think it was insensitive of your boyfriend to turn a bit of Hollywood gossip into an opportunity to point out that you are overweight and to further imply that because of that, you should not call others fat. I hope he regrets making you feel upset.
As for the word fat, I would always use "overweight" instead. It has less sting and is really more descriptive. In fact, when I even mention the name of the 3FC site in conversation, most people look a bit startled at the word "fat." I'm not knocking the 3FC name, because I think the novelty of it brings people to the site, who then become fans and followers, just as we are.
Why risk hurting anyone's feelings with the word fat?

effie12
05-01-2010, 01:07 AM
Was that the "Hips Don't Lie" video? If so just WOW! That's my absolute ideal body type. Thin, but not boobless. I think I have a serious girl crush on that body, and the bellydance moves.

I completely agree about the girl crush on Shakira! Not just because she has a fabulous body but because she actually seems to have a brain.

Anyway, I've noticed that people seem to look at overweight people commenting on someone else's weight rather strangely, like they can't really say something because they let themselves get that way too. I try to avoid commenting on other people's weight (famous or not, unless I'm saying something more complementary to a really good friend, or "Gisele looks so amazing after just having a baby! She must have lost that baby weight crazy fast") because I wouldn't want someone saying that about me. I think when it comes to celebrities people are often crazy critical, if they were real people no one would really blink an eye at the weight gain, or consider her weight to be unusual.

All that being said, I think it is human nature to criticize other people. Regardless of the fact that we are hardly perfect. Everyone has made some kind of a snarky comment about someone else (some girl's hair, for example, although mine is definitely not flawless) that could just as easily apply to themselves. I can see why your boyfriend's comment upset you, and I'm sorry that your feeling were hurt.

kaplods
05-01-2010, 01:18 AM
Yep snarky comments are common and even "normal," but snarkiness triggers snarkiness (and that's normal too). It's unrealistic to expect a "perfectly compassionate" response to snarkiness.

It may seem "ok" in this situation because Shakira isn't going to be hurt by any comments - but I think the boyfriend was. When someone (especially someone close) is snarky about something (or someone) you like it's perceived as an attack (well, it IS an attack on the person's taste and judgement).

When my husband makes fun of a television show or a book I like, it stings. Even if he's "joking" it sure feels like he's making fun of me. And I think that's how the bf took this. It wasn't about insulting Shakira, it was about insulting something he enjoys. Insulting his judgement and tastes.

When you attack someone else, you've got to understand why they might attack back.

PinkHoodie
05-01-2010, 01:25 AM
I just hate catagorizing into fat OR thin...most women fall in the middle ground. I also just hate that in this generation, women seem to have lost all respect for each other. That's probably the saddest part.

asharksrevenge
05-01-2010, 01:42 AM
Even though Shakira can't hear the comment, it is the general nature of being overly critical of people in the limelight that causes some celebrities to go overboard with weight loss and body restructuring to the point of danger. So, to me, criticizing a celebrity is jumping on the negative bandwagon with the rest of the paparazzi in making that person feel bad.

On a more personal note, it would sure take a lot of nerve for me to slam someone on their weight, considering my own issues. And I think it is even worse if I have to consider my own "perfection" before ripping someone else. I don't think for one second that the person hearing me denounce someone else's problem would turn to me and compare, and then think, "Well, I guess she can judge because she's ____." All my listener is likely to do is judge me and wonder what I say behind her back.

astrophe
05-01-2010, 03:01 AM
it degraded into an argument where it seemed like he was telling me I could have no opinion on any other person since I myself am overweight.

Well, he's a fan, and you made fun of his fan crush and it sounds like you hurt his feelings. So he jabbed back. What did you expect? Logical debate?

I like certain things but I don't think I'm a "fan" of much, and I'm certainly not a fan like some of my relatives are about sports or cars or... :dizzy:

So what's the protocol these days, am I allowed to use the word fat in public or only between the girls?

Doesn't matter. It appears that for YOUR relationship, it is best not to go there with it.

You are entitled to your opinion. He is entitled to his. You can agree to disagree calmly. Why let it degrade into an argument?

As for saying "fat" to describe people, I don't much care, but I try to use "overweight" because I don't know how the other person feels about it. While "fat" as a word doesn't bother me, it can be a very charged words for some.

HTH!
A.

Latchkey Princess
05-01-2010, 03:02 AM
I agree with kaplods on this one. I think you poked fun at someone your bd likes, and your bf poked back. And honestly, I don't think it's appropriate to comment on anyone's weight unless they bring up the subject, even if they'll never hear your comment (like in this situation).

And on a different note, Shakira is awesome! I love her music, and she looks amazing!

rockinrobin
05-01-2010, 05:10 AM
No, it wasn't hips don't lie.

It's here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1Z5N5jvU6g

And I definitely think your BF got peeved because he's a fan and he's thinking, "how can you call anyone fat if you yourself are?". But I think it's okay to note and say something like, "oh it looks as if she's put on some weight". I don't think that's criticizing, just saying what is. Just as if to say, oh, "I think she's dyed her hair, didn't it used to be brown?" or "I think she's lost weight, she looks slimmer". So I don't think it's wrong of someone who is overweight to notice that someone else is too... Just because we ourselves are doesn't mean that we can't notice when someone else IS.

Serendipity
05-01-2010, 05:21 AM
Good lord, I wish I was "Fat" like Shakira!

That being said, your feelings are hurt because you called someone fat and your bf called you on it. I feel that you have a right to your opinion, but he has a right to tell you he disagrees with it too -- unfortunately, as others have said, he probably perceived your opinion as a rude comment and responded in kind (rudely). Sorry that your feelings were hurt, but in this type of situation, I'd probably go with mom's advice, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."

kaplods
05-01-2010, 08:29 AM
Am I blind? I still don't see the "gained a few sizes," and I certainly don't see the fat, and the "unhealthy" Gawd, I wish I was that "unhealthy"?

I realize that still having more than 150 lbs to lose, my judge of "fat" is a little off, but I don't see even 10 lbs of weight gain here (enough for TOM water retention or the cut of her gown to be "to blame" for looking a smidgen less buff than in other videos).

I have to say that, both as a psychologist and as an observer of men - as a rule, men do not understand the way women cut each other down (at least when the "victim" isn't there to defend themselves). Men do it to each other - they call their friends all sorts of horrible names, but they do it to each other's faces and they take as good as they get. It's a verbal sparring match, and afterward (even after fights that get physical) men can be friends again, whereas women hold grudges.

I prefer the term fat to overweight myself (over who's weight?) I would love fat to be an objective descriptor like tall. We realize that "tall" is in the eye of the beholder. To someone 4'2", 5'2" might seem tall, but "overweight" implies that a person is inappropriately fat. But that's not the society we live in. Fat is a bad word, it's a bashing word, and until it stops being used that way, it's going to be treated as such.

If Shakira is inappropriately fat, or fat in any context of the word, I guess I'm in deep ****. I might as well slit my throat right now.

I think any woman calling Shakira fat (even if the person doing the criticism is bulimic and dangerously underweight) does a disservice to all women. The ruler we judge ourselves and each other by, is so narrow that women are still endangering their health to meet unrealistic standards of beauty.

That it is socially acceptable to mock celebrities for being "fat" even by those of us who are far fatter, is a crime against humanity. Because the message is getting to Shakira, but the message is also getting to everyone who hears the comment. "If Shakira is fat, what am I?" Little girls are hearing these messages, and they're comparing their (normal) bodies to the women on tv and in magazines and they don't know those standards aren't attainable (or often even real. Who explain airbrushing to an 11 year old - they only know that everyone likes the skinny woman in the magazine with legs impossibly long, courtesy of photoshop).

Until gaining weight is no longer seen as a crime against society and morality itself, it will not be seen as neutrally as "I think she's dyed her hair, didn't it used to be brown?"

I like to talk about fat that way. I do it about myself all the time (I rarely do it about others, because I know that others do not see the word as neutrally as I do. Even so, when I call myself "fat" even in a positive way (with the hugest and loudest smile on my face and in my voice) people will often "call me on it." Telling me not to "bash" myself.

Weight gain is rarely seen in a positive light in this society (even when it obviously is). Weight loss is seen as such a virtue that bulimia and anorexia are still monumental problems, now not only among women, but among young men as well.

That Shakira in that shape, could be seen as "fat and unhealthy" by anyone boggles my mind. I'm offended, not on Shakira's behalf, but for all women - because those standards are killing us. Women are deciding that losing weight is hopeless because they can't look like Shakira. If perfection can't be attained, the journey isn't worth taking. Others are risking their health to try to match a standard that won't work for their bodies, through diet and even surgery. The "window" of beauty is so narrow, that no one measures up (especially in the age of PhotoShop when even the celebrities and supermodels reality doesn't match their image in the media).

When size 2 to 6's are being criticized for being fat, what hope is there for those of us who are morbidly obese, and may never be able to starve ourselves smaller than a size 14 or even 12. Do we have to feel like ogres among "normal" folks?


You probably think I'm being melodramatic, but I really think this is important. It isn't men "holding women down," it's women. Cattiness hurts us all. If only we called each other on it more.

LabMonkeyGirl
05-01-2010, 09:02 AM
No, it wasn't hips don't lie.

It's here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1Z5N5jvU6g

And I definitely think your BF got peeved because he's a fan and he's thinking, "how can you call anyone fat if you yourself are?". But I think it's okay to note and say something like, "oh it looks as if she's put on some weight". I don't think that's criticizing, just saying what is. Just as if to say, oh, "I think she's dyed her hair, didn't it used to be brown?" or "I think she's lost weight, she looks slimmer". So I don't think it's wrong of someone who is overweight to notice that someone else is too... Just because we ourselves are doesn't mean that we can't notice when someone else IS.

No way. I can be sometimes critical of people's weight, but there's no way in heck I could call Shakira fat in this video. No way at all. She's like a size 6, max. Her arms are amazing.

rockinrobin
05-01-2010, 09:16 AM
I prefer the term fat to overweight myself (over who's weight?) I would love fat to be an objective descriptor like tall. We realize that "tall" is in the eye of the beholder. To someone 4'2", 5'2" might seem tall, but "overweight" implies that a person is inappropriately fat. But that's not the society we live in. Fat is a bad word, it's a bashing word, and until it stops being used that way, it's going to be treated as such.

Ahhh, we can go back and forth on this one. What defines *fat*? How much, ummm, overweight does one have to be in order to be *correctly* called it? To me, overweight means weighing in excess of what is determined to be a *healthy* weight - and then of course there's who and how and what determines that. Yeah, we can go back and forth. Anyway....

I too don't believe Shakira looks fat here. Not by any stretch of the imagination. I just thought/think it's okay to mention if someone has put on a few. But I also don't think Kate Winslet looks fat and that poor woman gets beaten up over it all the time.

I think that's why the OP's BF got so upset. From a man's standpoint (& most?) women - that is NOT a fat woman. But a sexy, vital, energetic, HOT woman. Fat, overweight - no where near on my radar screen if I were to describe her. Men, of course it runs the gamut, but I think most men really ummm, like a girl with a little *meat* on them. So there is no way he's thinking she's fat, overweight, whatever the heck you want to call it. He's thinking she's pretty darn hot.

I am a terrible judge of people's weight - what they weigh, how much they *should* way, if they're overweight or not. If they've gained 10 lbs, if they've lost it.

But I do think she *may* have put on a few pounds - but I'm not even sure if I would have noticed it had it not been pointed out to me, since I haven't seen her in ages. Like I said her weight doesn't even play into the picture when I see her.

candy love
05-01-2010, 09:22 AM
personnaly i beleive everyone is entitled to their opinion, yet those who use their opinion to critisize other people with hurtful comments such as 'fat' are simply just rude and are extremely immature, so yes you can call people fat if you want though wether they hear it or not its still hurtfull, i guess i just beleive people should treat others how they care to be treated in return

saef
05-01-2010, 09:35 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1Z5N5jvU6g

Unhealthy-looking? To me, she's beautiful & has that vitality & positivity & undefinable "look at me" aura about her that I often hear called charisma or star power or the X factor or whatever else.

I agree with what someone else mentioned, that she's got decently defined arms. This woman works out or moves a lot. And she has a pointed chin, though with a slightly rounded face. She's curvy.

I call myself "sturdy" & have a body type somewhat like hers. (Hers is the deluxe version, though -- mine is factory-issue generic.) I can't call her fat without calling myself fat. And I don't think I'm fat anymore. I was, for years, but now I'm average.

Women calling each other "fat" in a contemptuous way always stings me, from remembered slights over the years, even if it's not directed at me. I do think if we're fat, we should try to "take back" the term. But we're not at that place yet. In this culture, today, it's still one of the cruelest epithets one woman can lay on another.

renstwin
05-01-2010, 09:36 AM
I saw that Idol episode.

I would trade bodies with Shakira in an instant.

InControl2Day
05-01-2010, 09:55 AM
To answer the OP's question, I think that fat girls can use the word fat. No one has the right to tell you not to have a personal opinion.

I would be annoyed with my BF too if he told me I shouldn't express myself. That being said, the men in my life (my father and my boyfriend) hate talking about other people (gossiping in their opinion) because they think it has no constructive use when you bash other people. I remember my mother being very upset when my father would shush her when she was expressing some opinion about his family members and reply "are you perfect? if not, why are you bashing other people"... and my mother would feel like he didn't respect her and just let her voice an opinion. My father has learned now just to be supportive and listen to my mother express fully what she had to say.

Shakira is incredibly beautiful and I would trade bodies with her too. Her moves are insane. Hips Don't Lie music video adequately portrays my envy.

Kate Winslet, Kelly Clarkson, Britney Spears, Jessica Simpson are all beautiful women who are constantly bashed for being overweight. I can't imagine the pressure they must feel to be "perfect".

Cali Doll
05-01-2010, 10:01 AM
No, it wasn't hips don't lie.

It's here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1Z5N5jvU6g

And I definitely think your BF got peeved because he's a fan and he's thinking, "how can you call anyone fat if you yourself are?". But I think it's okay to note and say something like, "oh it looks as if she's put on some weight". I don't think that's criticizing, just saying what is. Just as if to say, oh, "I think she's dyed her hair, didn't it used to be brown?" or "I think she's lost weight, she looks slimmer". So I don't think it's wrong of someone who is overweight to notice that someone else is too... Just because we ourselves are doesn't mean that we can't notice when someone else IS.

I agree completely! I made a comment to my friends about how I'd seen Kelly Clarkson on So You Think You Can Dance and that I was surprised by how much weight she'd gained. I hadn't seen her in a while so I didn't realize she'd gained weight. I don't think there's anything wrong with commenting about something like that. HOWEVER, I am not fond of using the word "fat" to describe someone. It just sounds so harsh.

I was at work last week and a coworker was commenting that she'd seen an old college friend recently and how, "She was fat!!!". The way she said that made me wince. It just sounds so cruelly judgmental. And I remember how it feels to see someone from your past after having gained weight.

Shmead
05-01-2010, 10:02 AM
Actually, calling her "unhealthy" bothers me more than calling her "fat". "Unhealthy" is the passive-aggressive, "mean girls" code for "fat". So many times, I have heard people being mean about someone behind her back, talking about how much they dislike her, and then, without missing a beat: "And I'm really worried about her health. She seems so much more unhealthy these days. She's going to have health problems, if she isn't careful. I am so concerned." It's all BS of course: they aren't really worried--they were just insulting the person. It's just code for "God, she's a fat slob, I can't believe she did that to herself! What's wrong with her? I can't stand to look at her. I'd never do that".

kaplods
05-01-2010, 10:10 AM
Actually, calling her "unhealthy" bothers me more than calling her "fat". "Unhealthy" is the passive-aggressive, "mean girls" code for "fat".

When I read this I laughed so hard, I nearly choked. I can list a hundred times (at least) in my life when family, friends, aquaintences and even strangers expressed "concern" over my health (ignoring major "health concerns" in themselves and other non-fat associates such as chain-smoking, substance abuse, indescriminate and unprotected sex, and other hazardous behavior).

The chain-smokers worrying about MY health were especially ironic - "I'm worried [hack, hack] about your [hack, hack, wheeze] health.

smccaleb06
05-01-2010, 10:24 AM
WOW... I am pretty much disgusted with this thread, so I felt I needed to comment...

We are all here because we are on this weight loss journey...some have hundreds of pounds to lose and some have 5. But we are all here and we all share the same need and desire to be healthy.

With that said....I know what it feels like when someone calls me fat or some other name that is intended to be hurtful. I understand that this thread was started talking about a celebrity, which good for her if she put on a few pounds... I am tired of the media and other people making a big deal of celebrities that put on some weight. They are people too and they have the same hardships as us. It makes me feel better knowing that people in the spotlight aren't always about being a size 0 to be beautiful. I saw the American Idol where she was on and even though I don't like her music and I am not a fan, I thought she looked beautiful. She had some curves, but did not appear to be unhealthy.

We are all people and most people will be judgmental at one point in time or another. I am not perfect and I have said my fair share of things that I shouldn't have said. But since I have started this weight loss journey and seeing first hand how hard it is, I have a little more respect about what I am saying. Thinking stuff is one thing, but saying it aloud to other people might be crossing the line.

TO wrap this up.... I would love to have shakira's body... so if people out there think she is fat...good lord what would they say about me???

Jacquie668
05-01-2010, 10:39 AM
I think this thread is a bit interesting so I thought I would jump in.

I personally only use the "fat" word when I apply it to myself and that is never in a positive way. I do see that word and term as a negative thing so I can see why people would get upset if you called their crush or whatever "fat." I do think everyone can express themselves how they see fit, but I do get why someone would say "Hey you're overweight and you're calling other people fat! You can't do that!" Meaning, it is a judgmental word and you wouldn't like it if someone came up to you, randomly, and said you were fat. So, I can see that point, however of course you can express yourself freely. I don't feel there are "rules" perhaps there are manners and tact, which was probably lacking in this situation on both sides of the argument.

Personally, I have sometimes commented about celebrities to friends etc. I remember seeing Dolly Parton after LONG time, I mean my last member was from her in Steel Magnolias, and I was like "WOW! She has CHANGED!" meaning she has obviously had tons of plastic surgery. I don't really care if someone is overweight or not. I mean people are people, we come in all shapes in sizes. Who cares if someone is a bit curvier or overweight. I don't get that whole obsession over celebs and their weight to be honest. I remember seeing all these news postings about Jessica Simpson and I just didn't get it. I get as a celeb you put yourself out there and yadda yadda. However, when I see CNN talking about a celeb's weight on the FRONT page for like TWO days...well then that really sums up society! lol

By the way I thought Jessica looked nice and I still think she does. I think Kathy Bates looks great too! Yes she is overweight, but she is beautiful, talented, amazing woman in my eyes! Etc etc...

mom4life
05-01-2010, 10:57 AM
I agree with beaka, I wouldn't call someone "Fat" because we know the struggle of being overweight. I do notice when an celeb has gained but to call them fat no....just out of shape. being that they have sooooo much $$ They can easily fix it. LOL
When I was in my heavier days I refused to buy clothes, I would tell dh "I refuse to dress up fat." I figured if I did it was sort of saying that I excepted the way I looked. So yes, back then I did use the word with myself but I wouldn't with anyone else.

Tonyia
05-01-2010, 11:05 AM
That Shakira in that shape, could be seen as "fat and unhealthy" by anyone boggles my mind. I'm offended, not on Shakira's behalf, but for all women - because those standards are killing us. Women are deciding that losing weight is hopeless because they can't look like Shakira. If perfection can't be attained, the journey isn't worth taking. Others are risking their health to try to match a standard that won't work for their bodies, through diet and even surgery. The "window" of beauty is so narrow, that no one measures up (especially in the age of PhotoShop when even the celebrities and supermodels reality doesn't match their image in the media).

When size 2 to 6's are being criticized for being fat, what hope is there for those of us who are morbidly obese, and may never be able to starve ourselves smaller than a size 14 or even 12. Do we have to feel like ogres among "normal" folks?


You probably think I'm being melodramatic, but I really think this is important. It isn't men "holding women down," it's women. Cattiness hurts us all. If only we called each other on it more.

You are not being melodramatic, you are spot on. IMO

kaplods
05-01-2010, 11:14 AM
I can't get this thread out of my mind, so if I'm harping I'm sorry, but I can't help but think "what would have been an ok response from bf."

If he'd agreed, I would think it would feel just as hurtful (if he thinks Shakira looks fat and unhealthy, what is he thinking about me).

If he said nothing, that would probably be as bad (he's not saying anything, which means that what he's thinking and wants to say is really bad).

It's a clear "no-win" conversation for the guy. It's a trap - he's damned no matter what he says.

Most men hate the "Does this dress make my butt look fat," "Do you think that woman is pretty," and other trick, trap and "no win" conversations, and I can't blame them. It would tick me off too, because no matter how a person responds it can be interpreted offensively."

CheekyMo27
05-01-2010, 11:32 AM
You are not being melodramatic, you are spot on. IMO

Ditto.

I've resolved to begin speaking up when people (and my roommate in particular - who lost 40 pounds a couple of years ago and is TERRIFIED of ever being "fat" again) make catty comments about other people's weight. It is usually mean-spirited, and I really don't understand what is to be gained from it.

luciddepths
05-01-2010, 11:40 AM
Wow, after watching that video.. WTF. The only reason someone MIGHT think she has gained weight is she is wearing a FULL shirt. and her skirt is poofy. Really it doesnt look like shes changed weight at all but to call her fat.. :O WTF.

losermom
05-01-2010, 11:42 AM
I hate, hate, hate how we women think that it's perfectly ok to criticize/comment on other women's weight! Geez, if we cannot be kind to each other, how can we expect others to treat us with kindness.

And if Shakira is "fat"--sign me up for that! She's beautiful, curvy and toned--exactly what we all say we want.

Katieee
05-01-2010, 12:14 PM
Seems to me like you set him up by insulting Shakira knowing he' a fan. I don't see why it's even worth mentioning, she is anything but fat.

kaplods
05-01-2010, 12:22 PM
Seems to me like you set him up by insulting Shakira knowing he' a fan

It really does seem so. It's one thing to get caught up in catty gossip among the girls. It's still rotten, but it's easy to find yourself agreeing with people when you don't know what to say. But to say it to a Shakira fan (boyfriend or not) is hard to take any way but as an insult.

When you insult someone, it's silly and unfair to complain about unfair treatment.

It's like a little kid tattling on his sister: "she hit me back!"

Eumie
05-01-2010, 12:41 PM
I'm irritated that anyone felt the need in the first place to say something about her weight at all. She actually looked thinner (and definitely in better shape by looks of her arms) than I remember her. Though, I haven't seen her in a couple of years, so my memory could be faulty.

It is not bad enough that women of all shapes and sizes obsess about our weights and waists, but we also obsess over those of the women in our life and on our tv screens. How are we ever supposed to have a healthy body image if the women in our lives are calling women at Shakira's size--or 2 sizes larger, even--fat and unhealthy?

My husband and I have been watching Rescue Me on Netflix lately, and I've been really miffed. I read an article years ago about larger women on the small screen, and they commended Rescue Me for the story line including Probie and his larger girlfriend. So imagine my surprise when the character was bulimic, her boyfriend (after seeing a picture of her at almost 400 lbs.) told her that he thought it was probably not that unhealthy to binge and purge, and every comment made by the male firefighters about her was shockingly cruel? The latter part I tried to get over by saying that it's really a man's show and all the fireman chatter is just adult locker room talk. But the fact is that a woman out there reviewed this show and found the fat girlfriend storyline to be admirable. I imagine she calls other women fat behind their backs.

I don't think it's a matter of you having a right to say anything based on your weight or not. I think it's more a question of what in the heck your idea of fat is and if it's realistic. If you think she looks unhealthy, I'm scared for your weight loss goals and your sense of self esteem.

Dippy Chip
05-01-2010, 01:33 PM
I didn't even know who Shakira was until I read through this thread, but I checked her out in the video in question, and all I can say is that there's absolutely no hope for women anywhere if this woman - in any way, shape or form - could be considered fat.

I would describe her as very slender, and I'd think I'd died and gone to heaven if at the end of my weight loss journey I had a body even half as sexy and toned as she does.

If I'd overheard a group of women saying that they thought she was fat, I'd have been incensed and insulted on behalf of women everywhere, and I can totally see where the BF is coming from.

It's bad enough when men (especially male fashion designers) try to suggest that to meet an impossible standard of beauty women need to be stick thin and androgynous.

That some women also feel the need to buy in to that cr*p instead of exposing it for what it is - the demeaning, undermining, and physical weakening of women - is pathetic and shameful.

Women damaging women has a long history (think chinese footbinding or women carrying out female circumcision in places like Egypt). We should know better. We should each do our bit to fight against it and to show a bit of sisterly solidarity, instead of running each other down or sticking the boot in. There are plenty of men ready and willing to do that, and we don't have to be a part of it.

energie
05-01-2010, 01:56 PM
This situation reminds me of when christina aguilera gained a little bit of weight back in the early 2000s and these two girls couldnt wait to say "christina aguilera got fat!"(mind you she just gained a little weight but still looked good) and these girls were well over 300 pounds a piece. Its like their self esteem was so low they had to try to make someone else feel bad. They also did that to people in real life too, in particular girls WAY smaller them . It bugged me because they would flip out if anyone made a comment about their weight, why go around being so critical of others. It was just wrong.

Renwomin
05-01-2010, 08:56 PM
I just looked at the video and I'm more concerned about your friends and yourself thinking that Shakira looks fat. She looks absolutely gorgeous, athletic, and healthy. She doesn't even close to being overweight and with the way she can move it is obvious she is getting healthy exercise. She is what a real, healthy woman looks like. Thank god she doesn't appear to be starving herself like the majority of females in entertainment have been driven to do.

Before you even think about your boyfriends sensitive, defense reaction you really should consider how your image of what is "fat" has been warped. For your own good, because if you don't get a more realistic impression of what overweight looks like you are just setting yourself up for unhealthy, destructive behaviors in your own weight loss journey. The more our society reinforces the unhealthy and destructive view of those that are anorexic or too thin as the "ideal" the more all females will suffer physically and/or emotionally for it.