General chatter - Who else has seen "Precious"?




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milliondollarbbw
03-06-2010, 12:45 AM
I think this is one of the best movies (if not The best---I haven't seen Hurtlocker or avatar, etc.) of the year and I am soooo happy that Monique is being nominated for an academy award.

However, I do find it a bit troubling that she was nominated for her portrayal of a character that is what so many of us within the community would say is a very negative stereotype.

I think that the character of Precious, herself, should have been nominated for the award---especially considering that it was her first actual acting role.

Anyone agree? Anyone seen this movie? Have you found many people who shake their heads and say they positively do not want to see the film, and where does that com from?


mytime2Bsuccessful
03-06-2010, 01:10 AM
Gabbie who played Precious is nominated for best actress.

I saw the movie I thought it was very good.

I love Monique.

milliondollarbbw
03-06-2010, 01:44 AM
I love Monique as well, and I hope she wins the award! :)


kaplods
03-06-2010, 02:56 AM
Have you found many people who shake their heads and say they positively do not want to see the film, and where does that com from?


I'm one who doesn't want to see the film, so I can tell you where that comes from for me.

I'm sure it's as awesome a movie as everyone says, and when it comes out on video I might rent it, but I prefer not to watch intense emotional dramas in the theater. I'm too empathetic, and I can't handle the sensory and emotional "overload." Something about the big screen making me feel like I'm "in" the middle of the trauma, and often the characters' pain is too much for me to bear, especially in a room of strangers. At least with a video, I can pause the movie and watch it in segments if a scene gets too intense.

There've been several movies that I could tell just from the previews that I needed to wait for video - The Passion of Christ, The Green Mile, A Beautiful Mind, What Dreams May Come, Driving Miss Daisy, Philadelphia, Bridges of Madison County. Precious is on that list, I can already tell. A large part of it is spending years working in law enforcement (juvenile detention and adult probation) and social work - and working with families with similar situations and even 12 years later, I still have nightmares about some of those cases.

Movies that I wish I had seen on video instead of the theater - Terms of Endearment, Fried Green Tomatoes, Steel Magnolias, Out of Africa.

JulieJ08
03-06-2010, 01:17 PM
Have you found many people who shake their heads and say they positively do not want to see the film, and where does that com from?

Many people don't realize how widespread childhood sexual abuse, in a wide variety of forms, is. It's probably guaranteed you have friends and acquaintances who have not shared this with you. I suspect not wanting to relive or be reminded of it on the big screen is a more common reason, even subconsciously, than many would suspect.

Shopaholic1204
03-06-2010, 11:32 PM
I've been wanting to see this movie!! But, I'm going to wait for a day where my hubby has a night watch so he wont be home. I just know the storyline will bother him a lot.

JustSharing83
03-08-2010, 04:55 AM
I watched it last night and thought it was good.

I did not think it was the best Oscar movie of the year though, Up in the Air was my favorite, but it was well acted and very effective. MoNique deserved her Oscar and I think that Gabourey Sidibe gave a better performance than Sandra Bullock did in The Blind Side, but really, her nomination was quite an accomplishment and I'm happy for her.

bremro
03-08-2010, 07:04 AM
I wanted to read the book first but with how crazy my schedule is I will probably rent it when it comes out on dvd

milliondollarbbw
03-08-2010, 12:41 PM
The blind side is a movie I don't have much interest in seeing, even though it is based on a true story. Something about the plot seems like I have seen it before, like in Dangerous Minds, The Principal, etc. I do like Sandra Bullock as an actress in general, and think she is hilarious. I just think the storyline is a bit usual for hollywood.

I do agree that Precious is a very emotional film, and I do know people who have experienced those things. I just think that it is a very real and accurate portrayal of not only that time period (the late 80s really destroyed a lot of African-American familes---I saw it first hand), and of the things that were affecting communities all over our country. I just would prefer to watch something more realistic, than something that is leaning towards the routine in the Blind Side. I am sure she did a great job, it is just the plot that doesn't interest me. I do hope the man that the story is based on is doing well.

sarahyu
03-08-2010, 02:57 PM
I'm one that won't see it, even when it comes out on video. I watch movies for entertainment and escapism. I don't want to be reminded of all the bad things in the world. And I'm definately not going to pay $12 dollars a ticket to be sad and depressed.

I saw Amy Tan's "Joyluck Club" at the movies (back when they had $1 movies- for movies about ready to go to video) and cried just about all through it, not nice weepy tears but big sobbing tears. My dh just about got up and moved to another seat. I only watched that because it had a semi happy ending.

Sarah in MD -who's favorite movie is Princess Bride.

milliondollarbbw
03-08-2010, 03:30 PM
Well, even though the topic is intense, most people don't walk away from it depressed....it really is a show of how a person can be strong and get through really difficult life struggles.

One person told me they weren't interested in seeing it, but didn't give a reason. Sometimes I wonder...is it because it was too deep, or because they placed it in a particular genre?

I definitely think it is a film that a lot of people should see. But I do see that if someone experienced similar things in their family, then it could be difficult.

The Oscars are about the acting ability, and I think that most of the characters in the film (with the exception of the teacher, who I adore), gave really outstanding performances.

Yeah, life is deep and difficult, but, ignoring certain aspects of it doesn't make it go away or shield a person from those realities. If anything, I think films like Precious may help people to think outside of their experiences and really get an idea of how other people live.

True, it is a tear jerker, but so emotionally moving that it is a film not to be missed.

saef
03-08-2010, 03:42 PM
I read the novel "Push" years ago, when it first came out, as I was a grad student in a creative writing program (though not for fiction) & a lot of my fellow students were very excited about the first-person narration in this book. The writing changes & develops through the novel as Precious becomes more literate & self-aware. It's a tour-de-force of the first-person voice. A lot of young writers begin by writing coming-of-age books, so this book was very interesting to them on that count.

I do not recall anyone objecting to the book's content. There are a lot of well-respected coming-of-age novels & memoirs about women enduring sexual abuse or being forced to prematurely navigate the minefields of adult sexuality. It's just part of the literary landscape. A graduate writing program is the last place where people only look for escapism in their novels & movies.

After that, I kept hearing "Push" was "in development" & worried what would become of it. You know what movie people can do to books sometimes.

I went to see the finished film "Precious" in November, I think right around Thanksgiving. I brought my mother, who was interested because of Oprah's advocacy of the movie. We both loved it. Mo'nique was just brilliant. So was Gabby, who played Precious. They deserved their nominations. This was one of my favorite movies of 2009. A very "actorly" movie. And a New York movie from a period that just slightly predates my moving down here. How could I not love it?

Why would anyone not want to see it? It all depends on what you think the role of art & entertainment is in your life, and what functions you think they serve when they are at their best.

Me, I like being wrecked & shattered by something utterly brilliant. It's a safe way of being wrecked & shattered, as opposed to this happening in my actual life, with someone dying or being devastated by a true diaster. Movies are one of the safer places in the world to cry. You can walk out of a movie with a tear-stained face & it's okay, people understand, the way they do when you walk out of a wedding or a funeral with wet eyes. It's allowed.

Mo'nique was just brilliant. You can be a villain, in my eyes, but if you play it brilliantly & show us around the whole character, her motivation, her place in a chain of unmet need & abusiveness, then you deserve it. You don't always have to be an inspirational heroine to be a great artist.

milliondollarbbw
03-08-2010, 04:10 PM
I read the novel "Push" years ago, when it first came out, as I was a grad student in a creative writing program (though not for fiction) & a lot of my fellow students were very excited about the first-person narration in this book. The writing changes & develops through the novel as Precious becomes more literate & self-aware. It's a tour-de-force of the first-person voice. A lot of young writers begin by writing coming-of-age books, so this book was very interesting to them on that count.

I do not recall anyone objecting to the book's content. There are a lot of well-respected coming-of-age novels & memoirs about women enduring sexual abuse or being forced to prematurely navigate the minefields of adult sexuality. It's just part of the literary landscape. A graduate writing program is the last place where people only look for escapism in their novels & movies.

After that, I kept hearing "Push" was "in development" & worried what would become of it. You know what movie people can do to books sometimes.

I went to see the finished film "Precious" in November, I think right around Thanksgiving. I brought my mother, who was interested because of Oprah's advocacy of the movie. We both loved it. Mo'nique was just brilliant. So was Gabby, who played Precious. They deserved their nominations. This was one of my favorite movies of 2009. A very "actorly" movie. And a New York movie from a period that just slightly predates my moving down here. How could I not love it?

Why would anyone not want to see it? It all depends on what you think the role of art & entertainment is in your life, and what functions you think they serve when they are at their best.

Me, I like being wrecked & shattered by something utterly brilliant. It's a safe way of being wrecked & shattered, as opposed to this happening in my actual life, with someone dying or being devastated by a true diaster. Movies are one of the safer places in the world to cry. You can walk out of a movie with a tear-stained face & it's okay, people understand, the way they do when you walk out of a wedding or a funeral with wet eyes. It's allowed.

Mo'nique was just brilliant. You can be a villain, in my eyes, but if you play it brilliantly & show us around the whole character, her motivation, her place in a chain of unmet need & abusiveness, then you deserve it. You don't always have to be an inspirational heroine to be a great artist.

Omg! you are so right! :)

When I think of Monique's role, yes, in some ways she was the villain, but also, she shows how women can be abused themselves and how they transfer that abuse to others. It seemed like something happened to monique's character to make her the way she is---remember when she was crying about being loved? Wow.....what happened to her to make her treat her child like that?

mandalinn82
03-08-2010, 05:06 PM
If you watched the Barbra Walters special afterward, the interview with Mo'nique was just fascinating. She delved deeply into her own childhood traumas to play that role.

weebleswobble
03-08-2010, 05:08 PM
I haven't seen the movie yet but I've read a synopsis of the full plot (something I generally do in preparation for a movie like this, because I tend to have a pretty emotional response) and some blog responses. I appreciated this one on colorism:

http://www.blackyouthproject.com/blog/2009/11/lost-in-translation-a-response-to-precious/

I should be watching the movie this weekend on DVD or on Demand...

milliondollarbbw
03-08-2010, 07:11 PM
I read the link you provided, and I think the author got some of it wrong (of course, everyone is entitled to his or her opinion).

Yes, if, like me, you have read a lot of African-American fiction, then you may not be phased or moved by Precious. However, even the Bluest Eye is not as intense as this movie adaptation was (and the bluest eye is a really emotionally moving book). I have read a lot of books, and only a few of them come close to the emotions that Precious stirred.

I do agree that I wish Monique had played the role of the teacher, and that Paula Patton had played the role of Precious' mother---but would they have still been Oscar worthy? Was it more Oscar worthy because of Monique's appearance and a play on stereotypes? Again, I am not a fan of Halle winning the award for doing almost full frontal, when she played so many other roles far better, and showed less skin.

I don't find the film to be underwhelming, probably because I did not read the book, and many, if not most, book adaptations don't really take you through the emotions that the book does (a recent example would be The Lovely Bones---the movie didn't really do it justice emotion wise). I just think that the author missed some of the deeper relevance of the movie---like abuse in our communities, the crack epidemic in the late 80s, the surge of AIDS in our community at that time, and henceforth, etc.

weebleswobble
03-08-2010, 07:40 PM
I do agree with your exceptions, actually. I'm a minister in the "worst neighborhood in town" and although it's not a major metropolitan area, it's still a big enough city that we see horrible nightmares on a regular basis. I work with people of privilege, and I work with people that they "can't see."

The people of privilege that I work with see movies like Precious, have an emotional response (like a spectator, though) and then move on with their lives, feeling better about them, still unable to see the people under the shadow of their own church's steeple. I read that the director of Precious realized things about himself during the production of Precious--things he thought about darker skinned people of color, about poor people, about fat people. Precious CHANGED him. Movies like Precious should CHANGE people, not just be a spectator experience.

LandonsBaby
03-08-2010, 11:55 PM
I haven't seen it and I don't think I will. From everything I've read and listening to the actors talk about it I think it would just make me very very upset. There are some movies/shows I just shouldn't watch. My anxiety is affected by what I watch/read/hear.

Serendipity
03-09-2010, 09:29 AM
I just watched the movie last night, and I can understand why some people would not want to watch it. The basic story is of a girl who has been sexually abused her whole life, who has two children by her father while dealing with a physically and emotionally abusive mother, who struggles to overcome and transform via education the life that she came from. For some people, seeing any or all of those topics is not "entertainment" and may be triggers for emotions from their own personal lives.

Was the movie good? Was the acting good? Yes. Can I say I enjoyed the movie and want to see it again? No. For me, it brings up too much pain. I'm glad I watched it, but I can certainly understand why it might be too heavy for some people to watch.

saef
03-09-2010, 04:01 PM
I should mention that "Precious: Based on the Novel 'Push' by Sapphire" is one of the few movies I've seen lately that features an overweight heroine without her weight being the ENTIRE focus of the movie.

The issue of her weight feels almost incidental. They do show her binging, at times of stress & as a source of comfort. But her binging is a symptom of something much bigger, and the movie makes that clear. It's almost a logical reaction to her situation. Precious has to reclaim her life & her voice & to assert herself as a presence in the world, as someone of worth, not someone who's rendered invisible by her size & the color of her skin. So, yeah, losing weight would be nice, but it's clear that it's not a woman's first order of business in the world.

Having been fat, thin & "normal: weight myself, I know about being an invisible woman, and being discounted because of my appearance -- though certainly not to the degree that Precious was (and **felt** she was). But just enough to relate.

And so can I say again that I loved this movie? Definitely one of my favorites from the past year.

I want Gabby to get other movie roles, too. I really hope this is not a one-shot deal. Mo'nique, I'm not worried about. That woman is well along in her career.

milliondollarbbw
03-09-2010, 04:27 PM
You made a really good point---the issue of Precious' weight is very real.....she is over 300lbs (in the story and maybe irl), her mother forces her to eat really fatty and unhealthy foods (one scene where the mom makes her eat with her while watching tv), she doesn't have much money, has to steal food, etc. People in her situation can't simply switch to veggies or go to their local health food store (giving the stats, there probably wasn't one anywhere near her neighborhood--which upsets me as I have lived in neighborhoods like that).

Personally, I really connected with Precious when she would daydream about the type of life she wanted.

jigglefree
03-11-2010, 04:00 PM
I won't be seeing the movie. Since I had my baby two years ago I have been unable to watch movies that have any level of disappointment. I used to watch all kinds of movies but having a baby had made me overly emotional. That movie would be a stress induced movie for me and I wouldn't be able to watch the whole movie. I love Monique and hope Gabby gets a role I can handle but meantime that will be one I miss.

Too much drama!!!

milliondollarbbw
03-11-2010, 06:49 PM
I think Maury Povich is more along the lines of drama---but Precious? That is more of a heart wrenching, soul searching, glimpse into a way of life that was really true during that time period and sadly, even now.

I do understand those who may have similar family histories and would find the topic too emotional.

Is it thought provoking and does it make you aware of things outside of your reality? Yes, without a doubt.

I am trying to think of a movie it is similar to, but I can really only think of books it is similar to, where you are left gasping at the end of each chapter, torn, but wanting to read more.

kaplods
03-11-2010, 07:36 PM
I think Maury Povich is more along the lines of drama---but Precious? That is more of a heart wrenching, soul searching, glimpse into a way of life that was really true during that time period and sadly, even now.


heart wrenching, soul searching, glimpse into a way of life.... that's the very DEFINITION of drama

Drama
1 a : a composition in verse or prose intended to portray life or character or to tell a story usually involving conflicts and emotions through action and dialogue and typically designed for theatrical performance : play — compare closet drama b : a movie or television production with characteristics (as conflict) of a serious play; broadly : a play, movie, or television production with a serious tone or subject <a police drama>
2 : dramatic art, literature, or affairs
3 a : a state, situation, or series of events involving interesting or intense conflict of forces b : dramatic state, effect, or quality <the drama of the courtroom proceedings>



There's nothing wrong with a person setting emotional boundaries and limiting the amount of "drama" and the kind of "drama" they voluntarily sign up for. No matter how great a movie, or book, there are times in life when you have so much emotion in your real life, that you don't need to artificially induce more.

As I said, I'm not particularly comfortable seeing tear jerkers in the movie theater. I was raised to believe that intense emotional displays are extremely private. In the theater, it makes me very uncomfortable to not only watch the raw emotions on the screen, but to also be exposed to the raw emotions of many strangers while exposing my own, as well. I don't particularly enjoy crying in public, or watching strangers cry, either - and that's not a terrible thing.

I love dramatic literary novels, and because it's a private experience. I tend to feel MORE emotional attachment to the characters because of the very private nature of the novel. You vicariously become the characters, or at least a close personal friend, family member or enemy (depending on the book) of the characters.

What's weird, is I don't even mind crying in public if I'm reading a book (because the book creates a private little bubble for me. I'm in the world of the book, and separated from the "real" world while I'm emeshed in the book).

I'm sure some people are able to feel that way in a movie - a detachment from the people around them - but that doesn't work very well for me, unless the theater is very sparsely populated, and people are not seated too close (I hate when there are six people in a theater and someone decides they need to sit right in front or behind you).

My husband dislikes the theater environment much more than I do, so we tend to rent movies. We also do tend to watch more comedies (dark comedies, usually though), action-adventure and lighter drama, because the books we read are much deeper.

I'm far more likely to read Push than watch Precious, and probably will get more out of the book than the movie, but that's just because I enjoy, appreciate and prefer the one art form (written fiction) over the other.

pinkalarmclock
03-14-2010, 10:00 PM
i saw it. there was really good acting, great topics to bring to the forefront in a movie, i did like the main character was so overweight/obese, and i like how it was something out of the norm.

sadly i have to say i didn't like the movie overall. it was too much. there was just one bad thing on top of another bad thing, on top of another things...on top of another thing. i would be fine with this but there was nothing to balance the extreme bad things. it was almost too uncomfortable for me which i congratulate the movie for because i am rarely/never made to feel uncomfortable by movies.

i only say that the movie needed more balance if I wanted to enjoy it as a film. as it is I can't enjoy it but I can commend the realistic displays of some peoples lives and not being afraid to do it.

what im saying is i can appreciate it intellectually, but not aesthetically.

beaka
03-14-2010, 10:26 PM
I read the book in preparation for seeing the movie. However, I haven't seen it yet. The book was definitely moving, and affected me. It strongly affected me, because even if you haven't had situations like the character, there were definitely some overarching themes that related to some situations I've been in. At the time, I felt that I wasn't quite prepared for the visual, so I didn't get around to seeing it in the theatre. Also, moview based on books usually tend to disappoint, so I didn't want to lose that. I did try to rent it Friday, but it was out so I do plan to see it soon.

yooperfinn
03-15-2010, 10:15 PM
Yea, I'd like to see it, too....mainly because there's been so much press about it.

AzimuthRing
03-15-2010, 11:42 PM
I watched the movie with my brother one night. What really stuck with me at the end, was how she made these small decisions to change her life; however scared she was, or ill-at-ease with them in the beginning.

In the movie, the character of the teacher was not very well developed (I did not read the book) so that left me wanting a bit more of her story.

It was no fairy-tale ending, there was no million dollar jackpot, or street paved with gold. In the end it was a life worth living.

She finally experienced kindness, friendship, and family. Some scenes I could not watch. And some scenes made me giggle! Especially the ones in the hospital where she and her friends are acting like normal kids.

There are several scenes that were powerfully executed by the actors! I was, and still am in awe of Mo'nique and Gabby. It was genuine. (I had to point out to my brother after the movie that the social worker was Mariah Carey)

Some scenes were a bit disconnected; but all in all I thought it was a movie worth seeing. I'd have to say this is one of those flicks someone should watch at least once -- even if you have to cover your eyes a few times, like I did. :)

Hyacinth
03-16-2010, 03:04 AM
Howard Stern, no surprise, is extremely off-the-mark and offensive, as usual ...
http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b170924_link_party_howard_stern_calls_gabourey.htm l

milliondollarbbw
03-16-2010, 01:20 PM
I watched the movie with my brother one night. What really stuck with me at the end, was how she made these small decisions to change her life; however scared she was, or ill-at-ease with them in the beginning.

In the movie, the character of the teacher was not very well developed (I did not read the book) so that left me wanting a bit more of her story.

It was no fairy-tale ending, there was no million dollar jackpot, or street paved with gold. In the end it was a life worth living.

She finally experienced kindness, friendship, and family. Some scenes I could not watch. And some scenes made me giggle! Especially the ones in the hospital where she and her friends are acting like normal kids.

There are several scenes that were powerfully executed by the actors! I was, and still am in awe of Mo'nique and Gabby. It was genuine. (I had to point out to my brother after the movie that the social worker was Mariah Carey)

Some scenes were a bit disconnected; but all in all I thought it was a movie worth seeing. I'd have to say this is one of those flicks someone should watch at least once -- even if you have to cover your eyes a few times, like I did. :)

You are so right!! :)

I do agree that I was not a fan of the teacher (though I love her as an actress, I was also a bit perterbed by the usual color issues---what if monique had been the teacher, and Paula had been the mother of Precious?).

There were some scenes that lacked the oompf, and others that made you shake to the core (the scene where they describe why they named the child the way they did---Mariah was on point!).

Howard Stern is howard, so, he is going to say things like that. He could have said things in a more positive way. I do think, realistically, that it may be hard for the actress to get movies where the characted can be any size, and not just plus size. Even in hollywood, actors and actresses of color have a difficult time of getting the roles that aren't so stereotypical, and actresses of plus size have a harder time as well.

CharlieBaby
03-17-2010, 01:57 PM
Howard Stern is such a tool.

The movie was incredible. Heartbreaking and thought-provoking, and so, so well done. I hope Gabby gets her choice of roles in the future, she has so much talent and seems like such a fun, outgoing girl (in interviews, it's not like I know her).

Mo'nique was insanely good. I think it would be hard to portray such an awful, abusive person.

I can understand why someone may not want to watch this. I cry at all kinds of little things - commercials, books, Hallmark cards - and I was a mess after this film. Some people have enough drama in their lives. They don't seek out more drama in their entertainment. But for those who do choose to watch this, I think it's a powerful film, with a solid, not-perfect ending.

lizziep
03-18-2010, 03:20 PM
i remember going to se Crooklyn in the theater a very long time ago. And the entire time I was there I was thinking about how I was the only white person in the theater- not what was going on in the movie.
i guess what i'm saying is- i wonder how many people say they're not planning to see the movie because they are white and they think it's a "black" movie- and they won't understand, relate, etc.
not that i think that is okay- i think it's pretty stupid actually- just another thought on why someone might say they aren't going to watch it.
I plan to watch it, i've just been waiting for a time when i can watch without my husband as i don't think it'll be something he will enjoy. I personally seek out the kind of - rip out your heart movies. I guess I'm weird, I'm not particularly emotional and am not a movie cryer but I do tend to look for powerful movies to make me feel something.

milliondollarbbw
03-18-2010, 07:15 PM
i remember going to se Crooklyn in the theater a very long time ago. And the entire time I was there I was thinking about how I was the only white person in the theater- not what was going on in the movie.
i guess what i'm saying is- i wonder how many people say they're not planning to see the movie because they are white and they think it's a "black" movie- and they won't understand, relate, etc.
not that i think that is okay- i think it's pretty stupid actually- just another thought on why someone might say they aren't going to watch it.
I plan to watch it, i've just been waiting for a time when i can watch without my husband as i don't think it'll be something he will enjoy. I personally seek out the kind of - rip out your heart movies. I guess I'm weird, I'm not particularly emotional and am not a movie cryer but I do tend to look for powerful movies to make me feel something.

As I have gotten older, I do find myself crying at certain movies, but usually because there is something I can relate to with the character (like the loss of a loved one). I completely understand that people who have a history of abuse in their families may find this movie too emotional. At times, I do wonder about the reasoning why people dismiss seeing this movie, but flock to see Hurtlocker (still emotional). I do think that because of the cast and those in the A.A community who support it, there are some people who will feel like it isn't in their interest. Sometimes I hear people react the same way when it comes to soul food---they just have no interest in trying it. Why? Have you never tasted the goodness that is cornbread. Sigh, I am drooling. :) And well, that is sad. I think it is definitely one of the year's best films and no matter where you are from, it shows a glimpse at the human spirit (yes, a tagline from the movie reviews, but oh so true!). :)

lizziep
03-20-2010, 05:03 PM
i watched Precious this morning. I'm still processing- but I have to say it was a really good movie, but I didn't love it.
I do think that the actress that played Precious should have won best actress though. The performances were very good and the subject matter was one that I think people shy away from and I liked how they handled it in a very matter of fact way.
I guess for me, it was just too much. I ended up feeling angry at all the crap they kept piling onto her and I felt like I didn't see so much strength as just a willingness to accept that everything in life will always be sh*t and that's just the way it is and smile and wade through it.

I definitely didn't walk away feeling uplifted at all. If anything I feel worse about the world I live it. But- maybe that is what they were going for. I would definitely like to read the book though to see if my perception of it changes at all.