Faith Based Support Groups - Public Display Of FAITH

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01-02-2010, 10:47 AM
Last night, in the Sugar Bowl, Florida Gator Tim Tebow ended his career, arguably, the greatest college quarterback of all time. There are many that question whether he will be successful in professional football but it is hard to question his dedication to his faith.

If you are not aware of this young man you may want to read up about him. If you want your children to look up to a person in sports as an idol, this is your guy :)

Anyway, on game days Tim always wears eye-black with scripture on it. Last night he had EPH on his right eye-black and 2: 8-10 on his the Bible this is Ephesians chapter 2 verses 8 through 10 which reads...

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Earlier in the morning I read an article, in the Faith and Values section of our local newspaper, on people openly displaying their faith. There were several interesting points on both sides of the coin that people made.

Personally, I have very little problem with it, as long as one is being respectable it doesn't bother me people trying to share the faith of their choice with whatever way they choose.

How do you feel about public display of ones faith?

01-02-2010, 11:18 AM
I wasn't aware of him/what he does (I don't watch sports), but...

Pretty good way to do it to me. If you don't want to, don't look up the verse. He's not screaming out scriptures when they make a touchdown or anything.

He seems to me to be an inspiration to those who want it. But not jamming it in the throats of those who don't.

(Now, I know the people on campus that sit there screaming out stuff to those who walk by...they're giving religion a BAD name!!)

01-02-2010, 11:41 AM
I have no problem with it as long as the person is sincere.

01-02-2010, 11:51 AM
I am always impressed by people who practice what they preach. Espousing something without really showing it to others is irritating to me. I don't know much about Tebow, but I love Kurt Warner who frequently gives credit to God for his abilities.

01-02-2010, 01:48 PM
that's an interesting question. once while I was sitting in Central Park with a friend, a group of young people came and sat around us, trying to convert us to their faith, when I asked them to leave, repeatedly, they wouldn't. We had to get up and leave. I've had other groups come up to me and ask me my faith, which I find leaning towards the obnoxious.

at the same time, a guy standing on the corner handing out pamplets doesn't particularly bother me, low on the intrusive scale.

ringing my bell to my home, too intrusive.

seeing public figures thank their faith for sustaining and helping them, to me, that's touching.

In my neighborhood, you walk down the street and in a mile you can pass, say 8 churches. Lots of kinds of faiths too. I have a Buddhist neighbor who burns offerings in her backyard. There's a Coptic church a block away from me. A big Muslim community.

01-02-2010, 01:51 PM
I'm not a religious person at all, but it doesn't bother me in the slightest except if the person is using their the expression of faith to hurt another person in some way (certain extreme protesters come to mind, fanatics with misguided interpretations of their sacred texts, etc.).

Tim Tebow is a very impressive young man. He practices what he preaches and seems to have a heart of gold. Apparently, he's had quite an impact on his team members from a spiritual perspective and they all have tremendous respect for him even outside of what he does on the field. He's one of the good ones and he can put whatever he wants on his eye patches in my opinion!

01-11-2010, 02:32 PM
I have no problems with public displays of faith. As long as you arent trying to push your belief onto me I say more power to you. I dont mind when people hand out brochures and stuff and say thanks have a nice day. That doesnt really bother me, they are doing what god asked in a way that is disruptive. However one time I had a man approach me and start questioning my faith and why I do and dont do certain things. That I believe is between me and God. But If I see someone wearing a cross or a star of david, even in schools, Im not going to be bothered by it. How is it any different than wearing a shirt with the name of your favorite band? How come that is an acceptable thing but I cant show my faith without worrying that it may offend someone?

01-11-2010, 05:10 PM
I feel the same about people expressing their faith as expressing any other interest - it doesn't bother me as long as it's not disruptive... and even when people do things that are a little disruptive or annoying, I wouldn't want to try to stop them.

I've found many groups to just as annoying, if not moreso, than faith-based groups -- the socialists at the college I graduated from come to mind, pestering people to buy their freakin' newspapers every Friday! :p

I draw the line, of course, at harassment, illegal activities (trespassing etc) or anything dangerous.

01-11-2010, 05:16 PM
I am honored that GOD allows me to show my faith in public.

01-11-2010, 05:21 PM
It doesn't bother me as long as the person is respectful. I am on the fence post about what I believe. I'm leaning farther to the side of evolution. I had to cut ties with a friend a few years ago who would preach to me everytime I saw her. She would go on and on and on and on and on about God and abortion. I was getting abortion pictures in my email and 20 or 30 different emails daily about God. It was just too much. I asked her to please stop. I didn't want the emails, and I didn't want to be lectured everytime I saw her, and she chose not to so the friendship was gone. I couldn't ever imagine telling someone what they should believe.

So, long story short, if someone is respectful, I have no problem with public display of faith.

01-11-2010, 05:21 PM
I have no problem with someone expressing their faith as long as they are not being judgmental/pushy. I think all religions should be equally able to express whatever they want. Not that this instance was a tattoo but I know a lot of people tattoo themselves with various things, faith based or not and even though I don't like tattoos for me personally, I don't see a problem with it. A bible verse reference means nothing to me so I don't see why it would be offensive.

Of course something such as a news anchor saying that a sports figure that they should convert to christianity is a different issue entirely and crosses the line :)

01-11-2010, 05:44 PM
There was a school (I believe in the Midwest) that I read about, that was trying to ban jewelry and t-shirts that signified group membership (gang or religious).

The problem was that the teachers and administration weren't aware of all of the possible symbols and the groups just changed and invented new symbols to avoid attention. So they really only ended up banning Jewish and Christian and familiar ymbols - and the gangs just switched to symbols that didn't look offensive (for example, using Sponge Bob or My Little Kitty as secret symbols). Even the religious kids found a way to express their affiliation while skirting the ban (Christian kids, for example wearing lamb necklaces instead of crosses).

The more symbols added to the ban, the more creative the kids were at creating new symbols.

I think public displays of identity are important, whether it's religion, political party, social group affiliation, hobbies and interests, favorite animals and colors...

Expression is important, even if you have no religious belief whatsoever, and curtailing that expression often has uninteded consequences. Mostly the behavior just goes underground (and the more potential for antisocial behavior as a result).

If you make people hide or disguise their identity, it tends to make them feel stigmatized and opressed - and people who feel opressed are prone to revolution (which is rarely respectful).

01-12-2010, 12:16 AM

Of course something such as a news anchor saying that a sports figure that they should convert to christianity is a different issue entirely and crosses the line :)

I think the PC take on this would be that it was presented privately...I can agree with this...although I, personally don't see anything wrong with it either as I am a christian....for those that don't quite get this google hume/tiger......

In fact how would you all feel if I was to tell you that you SHOULD be Christians? Knowing that I believe it is the only way to HEAVEN.....that I care about you....and I believe it with all my heart, soul and being because of the power of the Holy Spirit....

01-12-2010, 12:50 AM
Oh, this is a very emotional subject for me at this time...We had 3 funerals in the last 2 weeks. One of them was saved and I thank God for that...But, there is absolutely nothing like looking over someone you love and knowing you could have done more. Knowing that you'll probably never see them again rips your heart out. I've been listening to Jason Crabb's song "somebody like me" all day and I have vowed that never again will I let an opportunity slip through my fingers to show the people I love just how much they mean to me. I don't just want to tell them of God's love I want to show them God's love. So Ezmoney I feel pretty good that your telling me I should be a christian and that's the only you for that..

01-12-2010, 01:46 AM
why is this in general chatter?

i find the thought of someone telling me they'll pray for my salvation to be condescending. i'm all for people being able to believe whatever they want to believe but i don't want to be cornered and preached to- which has happened to me at least four times that i can think of off the top of my head. i wear a small pentagram and it might as well be a neon sign that calls people to me to tell me how wrong i am.
in my mind nobody is right or wrong- everyone is right and the purpose of faith is spiritual fulfillment.
that being said - if someone wants to thank god, allah, diana, whatever for their talent or in some other way publicly display their faith - i think it's brave and admirable- no matter what the faith is.

01-12-2010, 03:03 AM
I think faith is a private thing. Very private, in fact, I don't want to hear about it. The public sphere, the work place, the state and so on, usually have rules against displays of religion. In the first place, in the US, it is unconstitutional to have public displays of one faith or any. In the work place, many people might feel left out. It is bad enough that Christian holidays are celebrated, but fortunately they somewhat coincide with solstice, and a minor Jewish holiday. I guess people need a break during the winter. As far as whether I agree with it or not? I think what I think and I guess if I said what I actually think, some people might get preturbed so I will just say-- to each his own-- I generally start running the other way when "religion" is spoken of.

01-12-2010, 10:09 AM
why is this in general chatter?

I'm not trying to be snarky here, this is an honest question... where do you think it should be? I looked through the list and couldn't find any other forum here that I thought would be more appropriate, since this one encompasses all sorts of off-topic conversation. Unless you're suggesting it shouldn't be on 3FC at all?

01-12-2010, 05:48 PM
You know, I find it interesting that this thread was transferred here -- you can tell by the title what the question is. The OP was such a general question for the general population ... not targeting believers, but everyone ~ regardless of faith, religion, or belief? I won't speak for OP, but he would likely want a cross section of responses from a cross section of people, and that makes sense ... :?:

Now to answer the OP ~ I actually don't mind anyone expressing their faith in public at all. The way Mr. Tebow is doing it is quite modest and discreet; and shouldn't hurt anyone really. I agree with other posters that I don't appreciate obnoxious pushy persons either -- ask me my faith and I will share it, then move on, please ... it even bothers me when I see other Christians doing that!

I don't mind someone handing out a gospel tract or an invitation to their church; but don't bang on my door at 7 am to preach at me or try to convince me to convert to your church, or ask me for money ...

We must be respectful of others -- I already believe and have a church thanks; seek those who are seeking ...

01-12-2010, 11:00 PM
I am confused myself on why it was was in General Chatter for 11 days......

01-12-2010, 11:32 PM
To me, this seems like a very odd place for this question, because putting it here, I think you'd tend to get mostly similar opinions, EZ obviously wanted to hear varied opinions..

What's the point of asking such a question in the first place, if you only ask it to people likely to give a similar answer?

01-13-2010, 12:24 AM
The post was moved to this area by the moderators because it became less about how people felt about generic displays of faith of any variety and more about how people would feel about being told that they should be of a specific faith. At that point, the topic was no longer general discussion.

01-13-2010, 12:47 AM
I think I was the only one that made comment on "one should be a specific faith" and that was in response to a comment about a public question to all was "How would you feel...if..."

How is that not "general"....?

all I did was ask a question....

01-13-2010, 12:53 AM
As always, moderators move or close threads to keep the board welcoming for all people, and forum rules do ask that you respect that work by not arguing moderator decisions.

01-13-2010, 03:32 AM
just wanted to pipe up that i didn't mean to ruffle any feathers- i did question that it was in general chatter but i wasn't requesting that it be moved! i do think the thread took on a different vein then EZ intended - but that does happen a lot on message boards! :)

no hard feelings i hope!!

01-13-2010, 08:06 AM
As an atheist (wasn't always), I really do not mind people using whatever religious/emotional/personal supports that need to get through life more comfortable, but personally do not believe any of it. As long it is not an intrusive or disruptive display and as long it does not effect me, whatever makes you happy is cool. IMHO, that kind of thing is a private matter, though and generally doesn't need to be on public display - however, the great thing about america is your right to say/be/do whatever you feel is correct.

It's peoples displays who do them in attempt to 'spread the gospel' that bother me. Its not being done for personal reasons at that point, imho, its being done specifically attempt to convert people which in this day in age is really not needed. People have access to all resources for all religions and likely their decision not to believe or to believe something else is a personal choice rather than lack of awareness. Its one thing to read the bible, pray, etc... its another to attempt to talk to strangers about it or advertise. Although I do not agree with it on a personal level, I would never ever try to limit someone's right to do so, however. Whatever makes you happy, as long as it isnt harmful to other people. :)

I don't mean to offend by any of this, just trying to add to the conversation...

01-13-2010, 08:17 AM
Amanda I was not trying to argue...just asking.

Lizzie...never hard feelings!

01-13-2010, 08:56 AM
Its one thing to read the bible, pray, etc... its another to attempt to talk to strangers about it or advertise.

I do understand what you're saying, and even agree to a point. I remember when my brother and I were fairly small child (8 or even younger), being frightened by a group of people that came to our porch where we were playing and in essence told my mother (in front of my brother and I) that we were all going to **** because we were Catholic.

However, I'm not sure about the advertising part. It just seems to me, that since you can advertise virtually everything else, including alcohol, pharmaceuticals including ones to end pregnancies and those that increase the size of a man's penis, as well as porn, sex toys and other sexually explicit products and services (so long as they're legal), why not religion?

I'm an agnostic by inclination (or maybe just naturally curious and suspicious). I need to understand, in order to believe (anything). Often, I'm not sure what I believe, but the more I study the natural world, the harder it is for me to believe that there isn't purpose behind it. The chaos in the natural world makes sense to me, but the order doesn't - it just seems to be too perfect to be random.

I was raised a Catholic, and through conversion, became a Lutheran (Missouri Synod), I'm a slightly better Lutheran, than I was a Catholic, but I still question EVERYTHING (Thomas had nothing on me, it would have taken me a lot more than a couple of wounds on the wrist to believe that a friend had risen from the dead).

I have to work very hard to acheive even that mustard seed's worth of faith, and sometimes I do wonder if those of us with religious beliefs (even tenuous ones) are all deluding ourselves to think there's more to life than what is... but I also wonder if (and generally suspect that) we're not...

Sometimes I think we forget (or ignore) the fact that American government was not founded on the concept of freedom from religion, but on freedom of religion (or lack of it, for that matter): freedom to not only have different beliefs from your neighbor, but also the freedom to practice and speak about those beliefs without fear of discrimination.

Even when I find myself unable to believe in much, I do believe in that.

01-13-2010, 11:04 AM
This is all so interesting and EZ, you are a brave soul.

01-13-2010, 04:21 PM
KAPLODS ... exactly -- I concur ... what happened to the constitution or the understanding of it? This is worth repeating ...

Sometimes I think we forget (or ignore) the fact that American government was not founded on the concept of freedom from religion, but on freedom of religion (or lack of it, for that matter): freedom to not only have different beliefs from your neighbor, but also the freedom to practice and speak about those beliefs without fear of discrimination.

A friend told me recently that a lot of people are getting concerned about this very topic: that is, the public expression of faith and beliefs. She thinks political correctness has gone mad ... lol! ;)

01-22-2010, 12:23 PM
Being a living example is as much sharing your faith as approaching someone and speaking of it. I try to live my live according to biblical principals and its speaks volumes to those around me. I will not compromise my faith. Ours is the narrow gate.