Weight Loss Support - Even Service People...

Some of you may know from my other posts that I currently reside in Japan. In the U.S., I don't know if service people like clerks in stores treat customers badly or speak poorly of them because of their weight, but it happens a fair amount to me in Japan. Today, I had one of those experiences.

I went into a convenience store and the young woman at the counter said something to the effect of "whoah!" when she saw me. There are two expressions in Japanese which carry a bad connotation with one word that don't translate well into English. One of them is essentially, "how awful!" and the other is "whoah, look at that!" She used the latter when she saw me (and no one else was in the store or had just entered, so I know it was about me). Japanese people do this to me ALL THE TIME when they see the fat foreigner walking around. Average people do it because they don't care about my feelings. Service people do it because they think I don't understand what they're saying.

After this woman did that, I looked her right in the eye to let her know that I knew exactly what she was doing and she put on her fake service face and smiled and gave the typical "welcome" greeting in Japanese. In Japan, they actually have a saying for each of their two faces - the public face and the private face. Service people think that it's okay to use their "private face" around foreigners because we're not important enough to be given the same respect as Japanese customers or they simply think that we won't understand what they're saying.

After many, many years of this type of thing in Japan, I feel completely objectified and dehumanized. I know people get treated badly and made fun of in the U.S. (it happened to me there, too), but here the way in which I am considered outside of the social norms of behavior is very demoralizing. It feeds directly into my sense that being fat makes me valueless and less human than other people around me.

For the record, the Japanese people are generally seen as polite because of the emphasis on the "public face" which most tourists encounter during their brief visits here, but the truth is that they can be very, very cruel when they think you won't comprehend what they're doing, when you are viewed as powerless (because you're alone and in their cultural setting) or when you're not looking/paying attention.

Oh my goodness, I'm so sorry you have to endure this kind of treatment. I don't care what your culture is, it's not fair to judge someone by their appearance. Actually, it's more than unfair. It's cruel. I don't know what it's like in Japan, but here, there are lots of talk shows and general shows (e.g. The Biggest Loser) where mass audiences get to know what it's like to be over weight and even though some people still treat us poorly, there is more empathy or sympathy for those who are struggling with their weight.

Also, in the U.S. there are a lot more over weight people than in Japan, so it's just more tolerated here.

Regardless, I"m truly sorry you had to endure such treatment. You probably can't change the way you are treated (other than pointing out to them that you understand and letting them know how cruel they are), but you can focus on what you know about yourself and knowing that you are worth so much more than the sum of your parts.

I would definitely feel horrible if I was in Japan, but at the same time, maybe it would teach me more about myself and who I am and what I can handle. In the face of adversity, you can rise above it and become more enlightened. Also, you can always come to 3fc and get tons of support.

Hugs to you....I hope you're ok.

I'm sorry to hear that :( It really is very sad that people can be so ignorant and insensitive.

I'm in Korea and it's often the same. I hear horror stories from so many friends who go into stores and are practically chased out by salespeople who tell them that they don't have big sizes. They are often extremely rude about it too. Many friends who eat the same as Koreans do get constant comments about their weight from colleagues and strangers. Things like, "Why are you so fat?" or "Why do you eat so much?" Hellloooo, I'm not Korean and don't have the metabolism of a horse. You won't believe how much they eat and get away with it. Unfortunately, we can't all be as lucky.

Most Korean women are tiny and the sizes here reflect that. I'm pretty much maintaining and thin by most standards, but being pretty tall I often struggle to find clothes in their stores. Here, thin is beautiful and it's a very looks centred society. So if you're not thin and/or beautiful life can be hard.

But just to say hang in there and ignore them. They're not worth the effort of getting upset. People like those clearly have a heap of their own issues and insecurities to deal with. Hold your head high and walk in there because you're worth a million of them :)

Wow! I never knew about the public face/private face thing. Sorry you had to go through that humiliation. :hug:

I enjoyed reading your blog. You have a very intelligent writing style.

Thanks to everyone for the kind and supportive words. I really appreciate it!

Tagan47: I've heard that Korea is even more brutal than Japan in regards to weight. Part of the reason is that they aren't as restrained as the Japanese in general, and part is that Japan is one of the "fattest" Asian countries and Korea the slimmest. That's not to say there are many fat Japanese, but compared to other Asian countries, the percentage is higher. That's probably why they're instituting measures to make people lose weight.

Judy Lynn: Thanks ever so much! My ego always loves to hear such words about my writing! :-)

I'm very shocked to hear how bad it is over there. I, like most others, have always thought the Japanese to be friendly folks. So sorry that you have to put up with that nonsense. How long have you lived in Japan for? Did you know the things you do now (public/private face) before you went?

My boyfriend and I have always wanted to visit Japan, but now I can just envisage me being mocked constantly, and both of us feeling humiliated and upset :( Don't really fancy it anymore.

Sounds awful. Have you thought about retorting? Maybe you can say "I know you think I can't understand what you're saying, but even to someone who doesn't speak a word of japanese it would be obvious that you are making fun of me. I came in here to give you my business and now I'm taking my business elsewhere."

Also, have you thought about complaining to management? People will often not change their thinking but they can change their behavior. What about going to a local news show or approaching a magazine with this story? I don't know how the media works in Japan but here in america this kind of public interest story would probably make it in the news.

I once went to a sushi restaurant and ordered 3 rolls. The Japanese waiter said "Whoa that's aLOT of food!!" It made me feel awful so I'm not surprised by the response you're getting. Don't get me wrong, I have many japanese friends I adore, but I totally understand about the public face personna.

There are rude and insulting people everywhere. Don't let them get to you. Re : Koreans , I had a wonderful Vietnamese neighbor and I said to him that I had heard that other Asians say Koreans are low class, he said " Well, they are low class."

There are rude and insulting people everywhere. Don't let them get to you. Re : Koreans , I had a wonderful Vietnamese neighbor and I said to him that I had heard that other Asians say Koreans are low class, he said " Well, they are low class."

Ouch, I think that's a rather low class anecdote to repeat about a cultural stereotype :( Do you include your wonderful neighbor as one of those rude and insulting people that are everywhere? All I can say is wow.

screamingfatgirl,

I am sorry to hear about your experience with that woman. I am not glad that I didn't understand what people were saying about me when I went to Cambodia. My husband is Cambodian and we went there to visit his uncle and cousins last year. Every where I went all I heard was "tsk, tsk." My husband tried to convince me that it was a good sound, like they were saying "oh my gosh, she is so beautiful" Hahaha, I am sure some people MAYBE were saying that, but I believe now that it was definitely not the majority of them.

We climbed up this "mountain" with sooo many stairs in my father-in-law's home town. I got a lot of looks and tsk ing that day. My husband later explained to me though that those were good looks. They couldn't believe a girl as big as I am could get up that mountain. Hahaha I am glad I proved them all wrong. I guess most "obese" Cambodian people have the reputation of not being able to move at all.

It just goes to show how differently cultures around the world look at people. I agree though that you should have said something back to them in Japanese, that would have really shocked them.

I learned to say "Don't do that, that is rude"(or something in that manner) in Khmer when I was there. On the last day I was there, we were at the market and these women were snickering at me and I said that to them. All of a sudden their jaws dropped and they said, "oh!! she is speaking Khmer," and I just walked away from them. It felt so good!!

This entire THREAD is leaving me with a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE taste in my mouth. Seriously people... think before you perpetuate such incredibly rude stereotypes :( Just because we're talking about Japanese people or Korean people DOES NOT MAKE IT any more socially acceptable on this site than to be perpetuating rude stereo types about African American people or Canadian's for example.

:(

Maybe some of this comes from the fact that other countries don't have the abundance of food that the US does and they think we are eating more than our share to get so overweight. I still think it's wrong to condem the whole country for that.

I don't mean to sound insensitive or anything, but why are people getting upset about this thread? I've read through everything and what I'm personally getting out of it is how it doesn't matter where you go in the world, there will be some people (not the whole country) that can be mean spirited. And it doesn't matter what country or where you are, we just need to not let the mean comments get to us or stop us from reaching our goals.

I don't think anyone meant to judge or stereotype anyone but I can't speak for everyone I'm just stating that's what I was getting from reading this.

And I think the OP maybe was trying to get support from us not trying to negatively stereotype anyone...:?::shrug:

"but the truth is that they can be very, very cruel when they think you won't comprehend what they're doing, when you are viewed as powerless (because you're alone and in their cultural setting) or when you're not looking/paying attention."

I took great offense to this statement. now whether offense was MEANT or not is not my issue. I think it's statements like THIS that breed hatred :(

I think we really do have to stop talking about "THEM" and what "THEY" do. People are people wherever you go. Some cultures are different from others, but I have seen and heard plenty of rude comments right here in the USA from people of all colors, nationalities, educational backgrounds, religions, and orientations.

This doesn't mean to justify rudeness. It is terrible to have others make rude comments about one's weight or anything else! But it does mean it's time to STOP making comments about "THOSE PEOPLE," whoever you see them to be. :mad:

Jay

"Japanese people can be rude and cruel" is, in my opinion, a little inflammatory, and a bit unfair given the cultural standards in Japan.

I think it would be more accurate to say something like "Japanese cultural standards and traditions permit a level of speech about personal topics, like weight, that is rude to those accustomed to American cultural standards and traditions, which are more prohibitive in talking about such personal topics". Of course, there are also rude people everywhere, but in this case, it may not even be rudeness, just cultural difference, or it may be some combination of both (ie, what that individual did was somewhat rude, but not nearly as rude as it would be according to American cultural norms and standards).

In this case, being aware of cultural standards might have helped to keep your anger at this down, but being accustomed to American standards, probably wouldn't have kept your feelings from being hurt either way. Still, it's something to be aware of when interacting with anyone (and not even just with those who come from a different national culture, but even people who were raised in different homes...perspectives on rudeness are fairly individual, even if they do line up along some lines according to culture/nationality). And then, as others have pointed out, some people are just rude no matter how they were raised.

I'm sorry that this encounter hurt your feelings, though. That always stinks, regardless of whether it was done intentionally or unintentionally.

Sorry to have offended some members who have read my post, I was only trying to let screamingfatgirl know that she is not alone and this has happened to me as well and let her know how I chose to deal with it. You are right though that people around the world are just as diverse (in personality) as we are here in Canada/Usa etc. I personally get offended living in Canada and hearing about how rude American's are (as I am one). I will try to think of this next time.

I in no way hold the way I was treated by some against all of the Cambodian people!! In fact, I would love to go back and LIVE there some day!! I will tell one story about the kindness of the people of Cambodian people to redeem myself, if possible.

When we were touring the ancient temples in Siem Reap, I was exhausted! I was starting to get dizzy and we had run out of water and needed to go back to the car. Another couple who overheard my husband speaking to his uncle in Khmer about me came over and gave me the water that they had. It was the sweetest, most surprising and amazing thing anyone had done for me in a long time and I almost cried.

I have had people say horribly rude and hurtful things to me here in Canada as well. No matter who says it, from what culture or religion it is always hurtful, but I must try to remember that that is just the opinion of THAT person!! Thanks for putting me into check!

I think Mandalinn is point on. I went to China and I have to say it is definitely a different culture than here in the US. A culture may be blunt or may say things a certain way that we aren't used to here. I've also experienced parts of Europe and South America and again, slightly different cultures.

If someone has a bad experience in a country, I feel for them but I also wouldn't make a vast judgment about an entire country/people based on those experiences.

I didn't feel like anyone was trying to be offensive when I read through this thread, though I can see where it may SEEM that way.

I'm sorry that support for you has taken the back burner, screamingfatgirl. It's horrible to have someone say things that hurt you and to do so right to your face is even harder :(. Regardless of WHO it was that said it, I know it still hurt. Just remember that you're doing what you know you should be doing & at the end of the day, the only person you need to please is YOU. :hug:

I didn't feel like anyone was trying to be offensive when I read through this thread, though I can see where it may SEEM that way.

I'm sorry that support for you has taken the back burner, screamingfatgirl. It's horrible to have someone say things that hurt you and to do so right to your face is even harder :(. Regardless of WHO it was that said it, I know it still hurt. Just remember that you're doing what you know you should be doing & at the end of the day, the only person you need to please is YOU. :hug:

This. :hug:

Sorry you had to experience that, screamingfatgirl. No matter who or where it's coming from, it always hurts to not be accepted.

Yikes.

How you were treated is really rather shameful. I'm sorry that people feel it's appropriate to behave so unkindly towards you. If it were me, I'd flip them off and see if they understood that little gesture.

On the other hand, confronting people more understandingly helps as well. "That was very rude of you. Why would you think that that type of mean behavior is acceptable? You're an adult. Not a child. I may not fit your ideal of what a person should look like; but I can assure you I'm a real person with real feelings, and you hurt them very badly. *****."

So sorry you got your feelings hurt. I`m an ESL teacher - comments about weight and about food consumption (in general) are not to be taken offensive like they would in other parts of the world. It is acceptable in Japan (as well as Korea, China, etc). It is not a taboo subject in that culture.

I'm really sorry for what you are experiencing. People can be so thoughtless. But I love your blog. You tell some truth, sister!

I'm sorry to hear what you are having to deal with! Like luckymommy said it's more acceptable here since it's more common to be overweight in the states. I'd be so scared to travel to an Asian or even European countries since they often look down on foreigners, and if we are overweight that adds more to the "fat American" stereo type. It seems like anywhere we go beauty/thinness gives us instant access to acceptance and friendships.

I've been around quite a few Japanese people, and I know some can be two-faced, but some are all around nice. There is good and bad people in all cultures, so don't let the bad treatment get to you or get you bitter, just build a thick skin so it can roll off. Keep coming here when you need to talk. :hug:

Tagan, It's good to know at 129lbs and 5'8" you pass being thin there..I was worried at first reading your post! ;)

"but the truth is that they can be very, very cruel when they think you won't comprehend what they're doing, when you are viewed as powerless (because you're alone and in their cultural setting) or when you're not looking/paying attention."

I took great offense to this statement. now whether offense was MEANT or not is not my issue. I think it's statements like THIS that breed hatred :(

I can't for the life of me figure out what you find so hateful in that statement. I find your response to be the one that is hateful. I have not only experienced the above humiliation myself, but have witnessed it being done to others within my own culture.

I have been in situations where people are talking about me in another language(any language), thinking that I can't understand what they're saying. I'm greek-american and have often worked with members of my culture who perpetuate this kind of behavior. In restaurants where I waited tables the runner would say things like "take this plate to that beached whale over there." Just because nobody around could understand what he said didn't mean he should say it.

So what if it's acceptable in other cultures to make fun of fat people? Do you really believe that overweight people in other countries don't have feelings, or that their feelings don't matter?

Being hurtful, judgemental, and rude in any language is unacceptable.

ringmaster - don't be scared to travel to other countries! I was 280 lbs when I went to China and had a great time. I've been to Europe as well.

Wannabeskinny - I don't take it as 'it is ok to make fun of fat people' when other countries are blunt about weight/size. In certain parts of the world, obese people are very rare and not usually seen so it isn't unusual to see someone stare. If someone basically says "wow you are fat", they may not think of that as hateful but it could just be a different culture that says things bluntly while we'd view it as hateful/hurtful, they may not.

As far as people being two-faced, I've encountered lots of people who are two-faced and I didn't have to step outside of my country to do it.

It's easy for people to misunderstand when that is their wish. I've lived in Japan for 20 years and I doubt anyone can comprehend what that is like unless they've been here for that time as well. The reputation is that the Japanese are very polite people, but they are very xenophobic. I was speaking to the image vs. the reality.

That xenophobia manifests when they think you won't get it. There is a cultural ethic which is prevalent in the culture - tatamae and honne. This is the "public face" and "true face" that I mentioned. Stating something is the case here does not mean that it is not the case elsewhere. That being said, I sincerely doubt that clerks are insulting customers about their weight in such a bald-faced manner in the U.S. Additionally, I am certain that it is exceptionally rare that a Japanese customer would be insulted in such a manner. Clearly, I was insulted because of the thought that the insult would not be comprehended. I'm not sure how this can be seen as offensive to the Japanese. I've had more than enough years and experiences under my belt with this sort of behavior to make an assertion that it is not atypical.

For the record, it is not a part of Japanese culture to make fun of customers. This is not a cross-cultural misunderstanding. In fact, the Japanese take the idea that "the customer is king" deadly serious and complaints are treated like the end of the world by the management. They bend over backwards when a customer is unhappy.

If people want to take what I said out of the context of how it was presented and be offended, so be it. I can't be responsible for the desire on the part of some people to willfully misunderstand what I said. I won't be seeking support in this forum any further as I can find plenty of other places where people cherry-pick parts of larger statements in order to become indignant so they can find reason to judge and find themselves on the higher ground. Being angry makes a lot of people happy, as does judging others without cause.

Peace, people. Happy lives to you, and may you be treated with more respect than I just was.

Cultures differ and what is acceptable and normal in one culture can be very different in another culture. I attempted to point that out in a previous post and offended someone,. I am sorry for that as no offense was meant. I was merely pointing out that what is acceptable in one culture may not be considered acceptable in another. All Asians are not alike. Each culture has their own cultural norms. I live in a city in California that is very culturally diverse. We have many Asians here and as a rule we get along well but sometimes the cultural differances are hard to understand, and I am sure they think the same of us.

I think we can definitely speak to experiences but I think vast generalizations about a culture/people should be avoided. I also think we have to understand that not all cultures are the same, even within the US, cultural norms can vary from region to region.

I am sorry that screaming had a bad experience and no one should be subjected to that.

Makes me sad that a post about hurt feelings is causing more hurt feelings.

I think if this post was made on a general discussion board, debate would be appropriate. But it was a vent and the OP is in need of our support, not our condemnation.

((hugs)) OP, I'm sorry you had your feelings hurt. I agree with other posters that I would likely say something and take my business elsewhere if that's at all possible. I'm all about respecting culture, but if you are not a tourist and you actually live in that country than you have every right to stand up for yourself and let others know that you are not a visitor, you are a resident and deserve respect yourself.

screamingfatgirl,

I hope that you have a chance to read this before you leave.

I really am sorry for what happened to you, and many people are. It seems unfair for you, however, to demonize the people who found offense in your comment. Why get defensive, shun them, and then leave? I feel like that would be akin to some of the Japanese people you speak of refusing to believe their comments are rude or hurtful. If you truly believe that what you said in no way stereotyped the entire Japanese population as a people--then fine. But can you really read your original paragraph and not find anything wrong with the type of language you used?

Avoiding stereotypes in how you speak is not a matter of being politically correct. It's a matter of real people--real people who have differences and feelings and shouldn't be lumped into some huge Japanese box. Those feelings should be considered when you talk (isn't that what you think?) I felt that no one was attacking you--but rather pointing out how your speech might be a bit prejudiced. So why be defensive and hit the road? That reaction seems a little childish. "You all suck! I'm leaving never to return again!" Hello 3rd grade.

In the end, I don't think your post was particularly offensive, and as a person who has studied anti-racist ideology--I like to think of myself as being particularly sensitive to potential hurtful behavior. That said; why get so defensive and essentially storm out the board? Obviously some people found it offensive. Would it be so crazy to reconsider your words?

I don't know; as a black person, people often say really hurtful and offensive things to me. I point this out. Instead of acknowledging it they say that I'm crazy and hyper-sensitive.

What's wrong with considering the feelings of others?

I think if this post was made on a general discussion board, debate would be appropriate. But it was a vent and the OP is in need of our support, not our condemnation.


I don't think anyone is condemning anyone but I think there have been a few posts in this thread that have been hurtful. If someone is venting, then I don't think that gives them a free pass to say whatever they want. I'd also say it wasn't the OP post that bothered me as much as some of the subsequent posts.

I would repeat what Mandalinn82 said above. I did a lot of traveling when I worked at Microsoft and it was always interesting to see experience different cultures first hand. People in India were very surprised/interested/had lots of questions about the fact I was 30+ and not married and had no plans (at that time) to get married. Some of the questions were much more pointed/direct than would be typical in a work environment in the US. Different, definitely!

One of my dear friends was Japanese and she often told me that what she ate at work in Japan would often be the subject of conversation. If she had 4 rice balls, they would say she was eating too much. If she ate 2 rice balls, there would be comments she must be trying to lose weight. She said she just got 3 rice balls :) It was just a fascinating insight into how other cultures work!

And I have to tell one of my favorite stories from Singapore. I was there for 4 weeks. I wanted to buy some underwear. I weighed about 200 lbs. I was in a huge Singapore department-style store and found the packs of underpants. All the different sizes had animals on them. Birds or cute rabbits, kittens. The pack of panties in my size had hippos on the package. I AM DEAD SERIOUS! Ha :)

And I have to tell one of my favorite stories from Singapore. I was there for 4 weeks. I wanted to buy some underwear. I weighed about 200 lbs. I was in a huge Singapore department-style store and found the packs of underpants. All the different sizes had animals on them. Birds or cute rabbits, kittens. The pack of panties in my size had hippos on the package. I AM DEAD SERIOUS! Ha :)

:rofl: That is a cute story

I think it's really sad that the OP came here for support, and the thread was turned into "was it racist/was it not". Even if people were offended in any way, it could have been a statement expressing their concern and then encouragement for screamingfatgirl. That's my opinion anyway.

I don't blame her for leaving, though I wish she wouldn't. I'm sure it sucked to log on & expect support and instead get criticism. :( Not saying that everyone shouldn't voice their opinion - I just feel that it wasn't meant that way and the conversation got a bit out of hand.

But you treated an entire CULTURE the same way you are saying we treated you :( That makes me sad.

As I and many other posters said, it sucks....really, truly, and genuinely sucks...that your feelings were hurt. That support occurred throughout this thread, in most posts, even those posts (like mine) that found your wording a little problematic from a cultural-acceptance perspective. I'll state it again - your feelings were hurt, and that sucks, and I'm sorry.

Since the OP has stated her intention to leave, I'm going to go ahead and close this thread.