Vegetarian Chicks - Trying to decide if I should go Vegan

Hi, all. I am a past lacto-ovo veg then went back to eating meat because of pressure from friends and family. No am I am veg again, but considering veganism. I just dont know if the path is right for me. I don't see anything ethically wrong with eating cheese and eggs, I do, however have a problem with the way the egg and dairy industry treats the animals. I also worry about how eggs and dairy effect our health. Anyway, I feel that since we can't get b vitimins from plant sources them maybe humans were meant to eat some animal products. Right now it just seems really hard to eat vegan with hidden ingredients in foods etc. Any advice or help for me to help me reach my decision?

I followed a vegan diet for the first half of this year. It's very doable, but you have to be prepared to eat a lot of fruit and veg. The mistake I made was leaning on processed foods for convenience. My health then really began to suffer. My hair became brittle and thin, and my skin really suffered too. It became rough and pale. I was constantly tired too. This is NOT because of the vegan lifestyle. I believe it can be a very healthy way to live. It was because I wasn't eating enough whole foods. Give it a try for a couple of weeks and see how you feel. If it's a moral decision then I've found out that dairy animals go through much worse torture than animals that are killed for meat. At the moment I'm mostly vegetarian (I eat fish the odd time) and I follow the Mediterranean diet. It's based on lots of veg and whole foods and I feel a million times better. I steer away from dairy. I get calcium from green leafy veg. Skin and hair are much better and I've tons more energy.
Good luck! Let me know how you get on!

In regards to B12, there are vegan societies and there are natural herbivores and they get their B12 the same way, from the soil. By the fact that we wash our veggies so much and are so dirt phobic, means that getting B12 naturally is a bit harder. Although really the people I have heard with B12 deficiencies were actually meat eaters.

And I think there are a lot of ethical issues with how dairy cows are treated and how chickens are treated. I actually think dairy cows have it worse than beef cows because they are basically tortured before they are eventually cut up for meat. Of course egg laying hens don't have it much better either.

I started following a vegan diet a couple years ago and I love it. I'd recommend reading things like The China Study, Eat to Live and looking at Vegan with a Vengeance cookbook :)

go vegan! =)

I went veggie almost a month ago now and feel it was totally worth it. I can definitely see myself becoming vegan in the near future. The reason I became veggie is for health reasons, but now it's much more than that for me. I'm becoming an animal activist as well. That being so, I am slowly giving up dairy (I'm already lactose intolerant, so giving up dairy is best for me anyway) and eggs so I can transition to being a vegan at some point.

My thought is that vegan is the way to go. But, veggie is also a great lifestyle, and while I'd never tell anyone they should give up meat, I would definitely recommend it highly. If you can deal with giving up dairy and eggs, I say take the leap and go vegan!

I went vegan last October, after being veg for about 6 months. For me, the hardest part about going vegan was deciding to do it. The rest was totally do-able.

I think I did a few things right, though: I did give myself lots of time to transition, so I wouldn't feel overwhelmed by change; and wouldn't feel that I was "forbidding" myself any foods, even though I ate about 99% vegan even during my transition; and I didn't tell people I was vegan, just that I was trying to eat vegan, so there would be no pressure from people watching what I ate and judging. For example, I love sushi, and I continued to eat tempura at the sushi place right next to work, even though I was fairly sure their tempura batter had eggs in it. And it worked--one day about 3 months in, I went down to the sushi place and said, "Can you check if your tempura batter has eggs in it?" It did. No more tempura for me! Not from there anyway, since other places make tempura with no eggs--I just have to ask. ;)

For me, once I decided it was something I wanted, and something I felt strongly about, and something I was committed to, implementing that decision was easy. I've learned what parts about bein vegan are more challenging (eating at restaurants, visiting family, potlucks) and how to overcome them (plan ahead/call ahead, bring vegan snacks and ask for a trip to the grocery store, and bring two things so I have enought to eat). Everything is do-able now. :D

I've been a vegetarian on and off for my whole life. My dad's a lacto-ovo vegetarian since I can remember. I just 'became' vegan on Monday :) My first priority is my health, but since I started I've read so much bad stuff about animal cruelty in the food business that the thought of anything that came cut or squeezed from an animal actually repulses me. I enjoy veggies, fruits, grains, beans and tofu thank you very much :)
I also don't know what I'm going to eat for lunch from now on.. This week I'm at home so it's easier.. Do you guys eat out or bring lunch from home? Everyone I know goes out for some pizza or pasta for lunch. At those restaurants nothing is really vegan accept the salad which can't fill me up for the whole day.
Don't expect people to understand. I was just recently at a family dinner and my boyfriends cousin said she was vegan and everyone was like 'OMG.. what about your protein, what about your health..' And they were saying that while stuffing their mouth with three different kinds of cake.. Of course cake is known for being a great source of health giving nutrition.. I haven't told any of my friends yet. My boyfriend knows and my parents. They understand but they are annoyed if something has to be prepared just for me. Which is also annoying for me. I wish I lived alone so I can eat without these ignorant comments.

I bring my food to work but Chipotle is one of my favorite quick lunch stops. It really depends where you live. Happycow.net lists a bunch of restaurants all over the world, so if you really want to eat out, it might be a place to look at as options.

I also don't know what I'm going to eat for lunch from now on.. This week I'm at home so it's easier.. Do you guys eat out or bring lunch from home?

I often eat the previous night's leftovers for lunch. I like chickpea salad in pita bread (there are some without whey) a lot.

I have been both vegan and lacto ovo vegetarian, and I am back to being lacto ovo vegetarian for many reasons. The following are just my personal opinions and observations - the bottom line is you have to do what's best for you.

Here are the reasons veganism just wasn't for me:

1. Too hard to follow. For me anyway. Made me neurotic!

2. I just didn't feel well. My body needs animal protein. Period. But it doesn't have to come from meat, fish, or poultry. I eat a lot of dairy and eggs and feel great again.

3. I know this is controversial, but dairy has been found to help with insulin resistance, metabolic syndrome and weight loss. Just this past August 2009, another study came out that when you reduce your calories, dairy products facilitate weight loss. This is a very new study (not the older ones that were bashed by vegan groups - and which I still believe).

I cannot post links because I don't have enough posts, but if you google "The Role of Dairy Foods and Dietary Calcium in Weight Management" by Marta Van Loan, Phd, you will find the study. And the study found it's the calcium in dairy, not supplements that really work. Some scientists feel there are some yet unfound compounds in dairy that facilitate weight loss.

Another study from June 2009 (google nutraingredients+science supports dairy calcium for weight loss) was published as well. This found that dairy calcium can increase excretion of fat in the feces. Sounds disgusting, but a very informative study which shows dairy helps release fat from our bodies, by some as yet undiscovered mechanism.

4. There are no true vegan cultures in this world. Not one. I am sorry, but it is true. Anthropologists have stated this over and over again. I do believe we need some animal products to sustain our immune system for the long term. But there are cultures in the world who have subsisted on milk (reindeer milk, etc.) and eggs and thrived.

Lastly, I am reading a book by world famous anthropologist Jane Goodell. She is a vegetarian (lacto ovo), not a vegan, and makes no excuses for it. The book is called Harvest for Hope - a guide to mindful eating, and it is just awesome for all kinds of vegetarians. I think the important bottom line for me is not to kill animals.

So I say do what is right for you. I came to my own conclusions and feel great on a lacto ovo vegetarian diet. Studies on Seventh Day Adventists who are largely lacto ovo show they are healthier than the rest of society, so hopefully I'm on the right track.

Oh, and I guess it's only fair to mention that for me anyway, if I don't lower those calories nothing works!

Wow, your posts kinda makes my head hurt. Your decision is yours but I think it's insane to try to deter someone with inaccuracies.

1 - It's not hard, can be quite varied. I'd say it's somewhat hard for the first two weeks-month while you get used to some foods and what you're going to eat.

2 - Everyone needs protein. Everyone can get the same protein you do from animal products by a combination of plant based foods. There is no magic protein in animals, where exactly do you think they get it from - plants.

3 - Humans are the only animals the consume the milk of another species. Think about what milk is designed for -BABIES, not grown animals. Modern dairy practices have introduced steroids, hormones, and pollutants into the milk on top of that. Animal milk has been linked to juvenile diabetes, asthma, and cancers.

4 - So? Are we not always evolving?

I've never been vegan. I was vegetarian (nearly vegan) for 8 years and ended up with a b12 deficiency. The only vegetarian source that I know of that is absorbed by the body is nutritional yeast flakes. I also have vegetarian daughters and my oldest has low vitamin D, which is surprising since she got plenty of sunshine over the summer.

Anyway, my advice is to make sure to get your vitamin levels checked once in awhile. That's probably a good idea for vegetarians and meat eaters, too.

I would recommend you read the China study. There are societies who learn towards veganism and eat very very little animal products. In Asia and from what I understand, some parts of Africa as well. I figure if you are a society eat animal products less than a couple times per year or even less than once per year, you can qualify for vegan.

Wanted to add that last year, I was looking at special types of vacation trips and there are some research type vacation trips you can take. There was an interesting one in remote China and they specifically said you would be eating what the locals ate, a vegan diet. Depending where you were in the world, they would give various notes about the type of environment you would encounter. Some said a vegetarian diet would be difficult, others said the diet would be vegetarian and that one I saw said you would be eating a vegan diet.

The studies done on dairy that I read were done by the Dairy council and they only showed weight loss with a restricted diet and didn't show any difference versus other calorie restricted diets without dairy. There may be new ones but I haven't seen them. Although honestly, I think the effects of dairy, even if they did help with weight loss, aren't worth the risks.

Dairy has been shown to play a part in the development of Type I diabetes in kids as well as various sorts of cancers.

From what I've read of the Seventh day adventist diet is that it is mostly vegan, some choose to consume dairy but quite a few do not.

For me, I love following a vegan diet. I feel great. I love the food (love, love, love the food) and don't miss dairy or eggs at all. My PCOS/insulin issues have actually improved since going vegan and I haven't had another gall bladder attack since either.

For me, a vegan diet is only full of positives and I don't have any negative results.

Oh and although I started veganism due to health reasons, I personally think dairy is worst for the animals than meat production. Dairy cows are basically tortured for their short life (much shorter than a cows normal life) and then they are slaughtered for meat. Their calves either become dairy cows or they become veal. Similar thing for chickens in that the hens live horrid lives, any male chicks that are offspring are killed and female chicks became egg laying hens. Of course you can buy better sources for both dairy and eggs but labeling is very deceptive for these 2 industries so there is no real standard. I've even read 'pastured' animals can still be confined to a very small space.

I love being vegan. I'm healthier and feel better. However, I don't think it is about me (or about you)--it is about animals. We don't have a right to take their lives for a taste that we enjoy (or even for B-12, since there are multiple ways in which we can get it) and eliminating meat while continuing to eat dairy and eggs is not effective, given the cruelty to animals in production of dairy and eggs. If you can do it, then you should do it.

I think the important bottom line for me is not to kill animals.



Using animals to produce dairy and eggs for our consumption kills them. And if they manage to survive until they're used up, they're sent to the slaughterhouse anyway.

From what I've read of the Seventh day adventist diet is that it is mostly vegan, some choose to consume dairy but quite a few do not.

I was raised SDA, and while there may be some communities that are mostly vegan, I don't think that is particularly the norm. I don't think I even knew what vegan was until I was adult. School lunches (SDA schools) almost always had cheese (burritos, english muffin pizzas), and in grade school everybody got milk with lunch.

I am now 99% vegan. I say this only because there are a few snacks that I am finishing up that do have non-fat milk and stuff in them. But, I have not had anything else dairy or any eggs now in about two weeks. Feeling so good now too. I plan to be totally vegan soon. I feel like it's the right thing to do for me.

I'm confused about it even though I am always fascinated by vegetarian or vegan topics. 14mo ago I had just turned 40 and I was over weight( 173lbs), felt like crap and my legs and ankles always ached from being overweight. On my own, without any info, I cut out processed foods( which I see as a poison to your body) and ate only whole natural foods. No meat, No eggs, just veggies, fruit, 1 cup of dairy( yogurt+small amount of F.F milk) a day, nuts, seeds and fish 3 times a week. I did some research and found out this diet is called "Pescatarian' A vegetarian that eats some dairy and fish. I would like to know if this is the correct way to describe my way of eating. If anyone knows, please help. Anyway, I feel great and it was the best thing I ever did! I lost 65 lbs in 10 mo., I'm down to 107lbs., i have no aches, my hair got thicker, my nails grow fast, my skin looks younger and I have loads of energy. Can't sit for a minute energy! I didn't miss any processed foods or sweets at all and I still don't. I love the food and have found ways to cook healthy meals so I have some different choices. This is what I eat every day- B- 1/2 c. all natural high fiber cereal w/1/4 c. of F.F milk, 4 different fruits, berries, a few almonds, and sometimes a whole grain source. (about 450 calories) L- 1 F.F yogurt w/ berries, 1 kiwi and 1 plum.( 220 cal.) S- grapes if needed. D- lg. salad w/ tuna or nuts or i make tilapia w/ veggies. ( 230 cal.) If i need a snack later I eat grapes,carrots or celery. It comes to 1000-1200 cal a day depending on dinner and snacks. It works for me!

There's nothing unhealthy about eating eggs, for me, dairy seems to do me good, as opposed to ill (Swiss/Dutch/German ancestry, very lactose TOLERANT.) You could go with free range eggs and I'm sure there's some low cruelty produced milk...somewhere.

I've been vegan for about a year and a half and honestly, it was the best decision that I could have ever made.

Before I made the decision to go vegan, though, I did a lot of research. Not just on vegan health/nutrition but also nutrition in general. I read everything I possibly could get my hands on - both pro and anti vegan - and in the end, the decision to go vegan was a no-brainer.

I'm 31 and had been overweight my entire life. Between eating healthier and watching my portion sizes, I wound up losing close to 70lbs in a little over a year and feel absolutely amazing.

Being vegan is only as hard as you make it. The first month should be your learning/transition phase. Go to the supermarket and spend a few hours reading labels, do some research on line about what types of things vegans eat and then slowly start to transition things out of your diet. Once you get to a point where you think you're ready, then try being as vegan as you can be for 30 days. If at the end of the 30 days you feel like this is a lifestyle that you can maintain, then go for it.

The most important piece of advice I can give you is this: don't stress yourself out over being perfect. We all make mistakes and even the 'best' vegans still have mishaps sometimes.

One way to make it work is to not let being vegan be all that you are. Remember, that while it may be important to you, you don't want to drive your friends away. You're still you, just on a different path than they may be. I don't turn down dinner invitations and when I'm out with my friends, and I don't preach to them. If they bring it up in conversation, we talk about it, but I don't make it the topic of every meal. I look at the menu and see what I can make work for me. No matter where you go there is always something that you can eat - you just have to be a little bit creative sometimes.

In regards to the B-12 issues - just take a supplement. You don't need as much as you think, since the body stores it. Also, there are a lot of foods that are fortified with B-12 as well. Soy milk & some cereals are just two examples of places you can find it.

You've already been veg for a month, so you're a bit ahead of the game, but I have some resources/information that I've been working on putting together that you might find useful:

docs.google.com/View?id=dg7k5jxd_96cnjtz5d8

Whatever decision you make, just remember that humans don't need meat/animal products to survive. Many people have lived long, healthy lives without them. What we do need is a well-rounded, healthy diet - which you can get no matter what avenue you decide to take.

Arianwen - I'm not sure how Canadian standards stack up to American but Free Range here simply means 'not caged'. Chickens can still have very little room and can show extreme signs of stress. Male chicks are killed in the egg industry as well since there is little use for them.

Dairy has also been linked to various cancers and diabetes. Similar, male calves are killed in the dairy industry and generally used as veal. Continuous milking is stressful on female dairy cows and dairy cows live much shorter lives than non dairy cows and eventually become meat for consumption.

With eggs and dairy, there are also the hormones involved but I believe organic eggs and dairy come from hormone free chickens/cows. For me, I take less issue with eggs but I am happy and healthy not eating them but dairy concerns me a bit.

To my knowledge, free-range here means they get to go outside and eating the varied diet they were meant to eat. When I can afford it, I buy glass bottle organic milk from Avalon which is a small operation that probably treats their cows properly.

I've been a lacto-ovo Vegetarian for 20 years.

I tried to see if Free Range meant something different in Canada but it seems it may be the same as here in the US.
http://www.veg.ca/content/view/272/101/

"Alternatives to standard egg production methods are being used in Canada to a small degree. While these are an improvement, they are by no means free of cruelty. Chickens can live up to 12 years, but most alternatively-raised hens are still hauled to slaughter after a year or two. And male chicks are killed at birth, just as they are in factory farms.

Author, Michael Pollan, visited free-range chicken and egg farms to see conditions for himself as part of the research for his book, Omnivore's Dilemma. He discovered that a lot of companies market their eggs under family-farm-sounding names but are in fact huge industrial-scale operations. For example, Petaluma markets their "natural free range" eggs under the label, Judy's Family Farm. What "free range" means in this case is an enormous shed with a small door out to a tiny grassy area. The farm managers don't want the birds going outside, since these "defenseless, crowded, and genetically identical birds are exquisitely vulnerable to infection. This is one of the larger ironies of growing organic food in an industrial system."

Pollan visited a typical organic chicken farm, where the little doors to the outside remain closed until the birds are five weeks old. They are slaughtered at seven weeks, so "free range turns out to be not so much a lifestyle for these chickens as a two-week vacation option." (page 172)"

I read elsewhere that even though the birds are generally given access to the tiny grass patch at a certain age, they generally don't because they are scared and it is an unknown world to them. I also think free range chickens can still be fed ground up chicken and what not.

Here in the US, some producers are using pasture-raised eggs as a marketing term that indicates that the chickens are living a more natural life but even pasture raised qualities vary and some producers are cramming a bunch of chickens in a small grass patch and calling it pasture raised.

I buy eggs for my dogs which are from a local farm and are pasture raised. The chickens actually get room to move, scratch, whatever and do get to eat a varied diet. I should also say I'm not an animal rights vegan, I became vegan for health reasons but I do like to know where the food we eat comes from and that includes food for the cats and dogs.

I've never heard of "veg.ca" and you should take things you read online with a grain of salt. There's a lot of disinformation out there...

It's extremely difficult to get enough B6, B12 and Iron on a strictly vegan diet. I have a hard time getting enough of those nutrients on a lacto-ovo diet. Even if you supplement, where do they source the supplements from? I wanted evening primrose something or other before, I could not find it where it did not contain gelatin or other animal ingredients (no "health" stores near me, I went to a grocery store.)

That site was referencing a well researched and pretty famous book. Nutritional yeast is a decent source of B12 and some sea vegetables are as well. I also buy vegan supplements (Deva brand) My husband and I both get our b12 levels checked on our yearly checkup along with other vitamin levels.

Here is a website that covers B6 plant based sources:
http://www.veganpeace.com/nutrient_information/nutrient_info/good_sources/good_sources_vitamin_b6.htm

I also think iron is very easy to get but then again I eat a lot of leafy greens. My iron sources have always been excellent. Also, cast iron pans are good to cook with. Here are some plant based sources.
http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/iron.htm

I am glad we have vegetarians of all flavors and I don't fault someone for saying they are ovo-lacto or ovo or lacto, but personally I highly recommend a vegan diet.

I do not recommend a vegan diet to anyone. I recommend they do what is right for them, whether that is to be an omnivore, pescatarian, vegetarian etc. What disturbs me greatly is how many of my meat-eating friends have gotten flak from vegans especially for eating meat in front of them, I get the backlash, people act weird when they find out I'm vegetarian and think I'm going to go all Meat **** on them, which is completely not the case at all.

I have even received flak for being an lacto-ovo, I get the impression some vegans think I'm not a "true Vegetarian" because I'm not vegan. This is something that has been troubling me for a long long while.

Also, there's a vegan in my Sociology class that is incredibly condescending and arrogant, I can't even stand to sit near her. I've probably been a vegetarian as long as she's been alive, which I find ironic/humorous.

Incidentally, I regularly eat tofu "dogs" etc and while I can get a lot of B12 that way, the B6 is still pretty low. Even with my dairy consumption I think I'm deficient in B6 based on the shortness of my cycles (if you get my drift.) i picked up combo B6/B12 pills today, hope I remember to take them.

I recommend a vegan diet because personally I love it and really wish I had discovered it sooner. I think that critical/judgemental vegetarians kept me away from a vegan/vegetarian diet for a long time. I was never ovo-lacto (or a mix of either) vegetarian so I can't speak for that but I think becoming vegan opened up a world to me that didn't exist to me prior and I'm not sure it would've existed if I still chose to eat eggs/dairy.

I personally shy away from fake meats but if someone wants to include them in their diet, then I say go for it. I follow a more whole foods approach though and try to stay away from processed products.

I will also say people can be asses because of who they are regardless of beliefs. All vegans aren't asses just as all meat eaters aren't asses. Although I know a few vegans/vegetarians, most people I know are not and I've never said anything to any of them about their dietary choices. I on the other hand have heard tons of 'blah blah blah meat is good blah blah blah not eating meat is bad for you blah blah blah'. I don't know why people don't get that I don't want to hear details about how they killed an animal to eat it or cooked it a certain way or what not. It is one of the weirdest responses I get when I say I'm vegetarian (I don't use the word vegan usually).

I haven't gotten the "we're supposed to eat meat" type of uh, baloney in years but I've heard that before.

Ironically, my card-carrying meat eating friend was horrified at my tofu/fake hot dog eatin', she said tofu is carcinogenic etc. I tease her now by eating tofu in front of her. :D

Arianwen, I've had people think they'd get a lecture from me as well. Where I used to work, a man came in and handed me a PETA flyer and asked if I put it on his car. I said no, and he looked at me with a smile like he didn't believe me. I said no, I don't even belong to PETA, I didn't do it, but based on the 200 McDonald cartons in your back seat, anybody could have done it. :lol:

but based on the 200 McDonald cartons in your back seat, anybody could have done it. :lol:

:rofl:

Trying to go vegan has been the healthiest thing I've done -- I made it easier on myself (and on my budget) by deciding to be "almost vegan"; just as it's really hard to cut out all unhealthy foods dieting, it's nearly impossible to cut out all foods with any egg/milk/butter contamination eating in a college dining hall!

So to keep in control I try to put together as many 100% vegan meals (again, in the dining hall) as possible -- and I feel a jolt of happiness every time I succeed -- which has been a great way to avoid eating dessert and replace it with fruit :D So yes, trying to do vegan means, for me, almost no actual servings of dairy, but spinach that was cooked with a little bit of butter is fine, since I can't do anything about how it was cooked. Makes for much less drama, and no purchasing of marketed-to-vegans "clean" foods I miss, which are usually super-unhealthy (cake! cookies! ice cream!)

But yes, being nearly vegan has helped me lose weight easily and in a very healthy way -- I eat a ton, it's just almost entirely fruit and vegetables now :) It's also another way to stay motivated -- that cake isn't just bad for me, it's bad for Bessie the cow! So the important thing has been to *not* allow veganism interfere with dieting (hence, permitting "contaminated" veggies) while using it as another reason to not eat unhealthy things.