100 lb. Club - Have you had to cut your carbs way down to lose?




Truffle
09-16-2009, 12:06 PM
I know that most people here count calories to lose (or at least it seems that way). But how about those of us who CAN'T lose by simply counting our calories?

How many here have had to cut way back on their carbs before they could lose much of anything?

I'm thinking this is what I'm going to have to do in order to budge any of my weight. :(


ja23
09-16-2009, 12:10 PM
if you love carbs there is no need to exclude them completely cos eventually u will want to eat them again and may gain
id say go with wholemeal instead but still cut back a small bit xx

Diva
09-16-2009, 12:11 PM
Good question. I was actually thinking about alternating Counting calories one day and carbs the next. It's hard to try and do both at the same time. Well, for me it is...My carbs have been horrible lately as has my blood sugar, so today I am determined to keep the carbs low.


junebug41
09-16-2009, 12:19 PM
I sure do have to cut carbs. Just in the form of grains, though. I have to consume bread and pasta very sparingly. I have to be more diligent with them more than my overall calories (although for me, cutting these carbs=overall calories defecit...usually).

I don't consider carbs in vegetables and fruit. I consume lots of those :)

It is what it is. I've noticed that I don't miss them if I stay away from them. Out of sight out of mind, I guess.

Glory87
09-16-2009, 12:22 PM
Nope - I love carbs and they are an important part of so many of the meals I enjoy eating (stir fry over rice, pasta sauce over pasta, toast, sandwiches, quesadillas, curries).

What worked for me:

1. Picking healthy carb choices when I can - brown rice, whole wheat pasta, whole wheat tortillas, corn, polenta, quinoa, sweet potatoes, beans

2. Measuring faithfully - carbs are yummy but they have a significant calorie impact. After all these years, I don't trust myself to eyeball rice, pasta or granola. I use my food scale - always. I budget 200 calories of every dinner for my healthy carb.

I have had to significantly reduce empty, sugary carbs (chips, pretzels, cold cereal, baked goods, cookies) - they trigger me to eat more and more and sometimes give me an achey, hollow, hungry feeling that no amount of eating can seem to fill. I hate that feeling, so it isn't much hardship to avoid these foods.

Onederchic
09-16-2009, 12:24 PM
For me, I don't eat pasta or white flour foods. I do eat veggies and fruits and wheat bread though, every day. (Umm I think fruits and veggies are carbs or some are...yes? Heck I have no idea :D )

kaplods
09-16-2009, 12:25 PM
I keep trying to convince myself that I can eat a reasonable number of carbs as long as I count the calories/exchanges, but what works in theory, doesn't work in practice. When I eat high carb foods, especially sugar or grain foods (even good, whole food, high fiber fruits and grains), I find it so much harder to fight my appetite/hunger.

I use an exchange plan, and have 3 fruits and 1 starch exchanges built into my plan, and an additional 600 calories I can spend on 8 optional exchanges.
I've finally decided to eliminate fruits and grains from my optional exchanges. We'll see how that goes.

I just find it so difficult to stay on plan when my diet is too high in carbs, especially grains and sugars. I don't plan on eliminating natural carbohydrates and sugars, but I do have to be very careful with those foods.

Alana in Canada
09-16-2009, 12:34 PM
Not all carbs are created equal! You want carbs that take a while to digest (so oatmeal instead of cheerios, brown rice instead of white, etc.) It could be the kind of carbs which may be causing difficulty.

And when you say "cut back" what do you mean? I have had to cut back significantly--but that's just because that's where I ate nearly ALL my calories. (I barely ate veggies, never fruit, nor milk and minimal protein. In fact, I now eat 5oz a day which seems outrageous.) Carbs were probably 90% of my morbidly obese diet.

I portion control the carbs. When I'm not watching what I eat they're the first thing to balloon out of control--I've just gotten into a bad habit of "going to" something starchy when I want something to eat.

So, my plan allows five portions of starch (or "Bread) a day. One portion is 1/2 cup of rice, 3/4's of a medium potato, 1/2 cup of pasta, etc., --essentially any amount which is around 80 calories. (A slice of "regular" bread is 2, so is the whole grain wrap I have for lunch). So, in total, I now have 400 calories/day.

I distribute them through out the day--I even like to save one for an evening snack.

Right now, I'm actually tring to "expand" my options from potatoes, (whole wheat) pasta and brown rice to include quinoa, bulgar wheat, barley, millet and others as I become aware of them. There's a TON of wonderful healthy unprocessed food out there--it's an adventure to find it and eat it!

As far as the "other" carbohydrates go (the non-starchy carbs) I have 2 servings of fruit a day ( about 120 calories) and I aim for 4 servings of veggies. (100 total calories).

nelie
09-16-2009, 12:37 PM
My diet is about 70% carbs and I can lose very easily, if I count calories. I have PCOS as well and my diet is actually very complementary to that.

Anyway, what I have found is I have to eat certain carby foods very sparingly because they have a lot of calories and I can overdo them easily. I don't eat a lot of bread, pasta (really don't care for pasta anyway) or other processed carbs. I eat whole grains but very portion controlled. I eat a couple pieces of fruit per day but I could easily overdo it if I let myself. Otherwise, I indulge in lots of beans and veggies which are considered carby.

caryesings
09-16-2009, 12:38 PM
Nope. But as my calorie intake was already pretty decent, the only way I was going to be able to get enough of a deficit going for noticeable weight loss was to dramatically increase my exercise. I know there are many people who lose without a huge exercise committment, but I think that only happens if your "norma" calorie intake was way too high to start. Just one woman's opinion of course.

Alana in Canada
09-16-2009, 12:42 PM
(Umm I think fruits and veggies are carbs or some are...yes? Heck I have no idea )

The macronutients in food have been determined as follows:

Protein: usually dairy, cheese, eggs, meat, tofu, tempeh (and possibly other vegetarian sources I'm not aware of.)

Fat: monunsaturated, ployunsaturated, saturated, trans. so, all vegetable oils, nut oils, and animal fat and foods containing them.

Carbohydates: Everything else. Fruit, vegetables, grains, etc....

Onederchic
09-16-2009, 12:44 PM
Thanks Alana :D

Truffle
09-16-2009, 12:56 PM
Excellent replies!

Yup, I'm another one that would have a mostly flour and sugar-based diet if left to my own devices. It's HARD for me to eat enough protein, veggies, and fruits. It's EASY to grab bread, baked goods, etc. :(

I also find that once I start on flour/sugar items, that's all I want for the rest of the day, and it never satisfies me. I could eat tons of them in a day and still never feel full.

Even though I'm 53, I'd say I still have a "kid palate"--preferring Cheetos, cereals, Reese's Cups, etc. to anything else.

Very, very bad, I know. :nono:

H8cake
09-16-2009, 01:22 PM
I am careful with carbs. I make sure they are whole grain and I portion control them or I could easily over eat. I count calories and work them in. I have PCOS like many of the other ladies here, and it seems to work well for me to limit the carbs. I don't limit my veggies. I think you have to find what works for you by trial and error. I can totally relate to your comment about having a kids palate, I love all that bad stuff too. Although, after a year and a half of eating like an adult I don't mind my grown up food. I actually like it and it makes me feel great. It just takes one bite of the bad stuff to bring out the two year old, though:dizzy:

findingfawn
09-16-2009, 01:24 PM
I tried Atkins years ago... wow what a nightmare. That whole "you will feel great after 2 weeks" thing was a load of crap. I was more and more drained by the day! At the end of 2 weeks I was going friggen nuts.. my brain wasn't functioning right, I had very little energy to even move, it was truely horrible.

I'm a calorie counter now, and will stick with this because it works for me. I don't restrict anything as long as it fits in my calories.. if I want cake I eat cake, if I want bread I eat bread. I do try to eat smart.. no whites (potatoes, flour, rice), limit junkfood, but I have to be able to live with my plan forever so I have to do what works for me.

Onederchic
09-16-2009, 01:26 PM
I tried Atkins years ago... wow what a nightmare. That whole "you will feel great after 2 weeks" thing was a load of crap. I was more and more drained by the day! At the end of 2 weeks I was going friggen nuts.. my brain wasn't functioning right, I had very little energy to even move, it was truely horrible.

I'm a calorie counter now, and will stick with this because it works for me. I don't restrict anything as long as it fits in my calories.. if I want cake I eat cake, if I want bread I eat bread. I do try to eat smart.. no whites (potatoes, flour, rice), limit junkfood, but I have to be able to live with my plan forever so I have to do what works for me.


Love it! :D :D

Jokan
09-16-2009, 01:31 PM
I just read about a diet that gives you the best of both world's in Woman's World. It allows you a carb at every meal as long as it is "safe". Anyway, the name of it is The Miracle Metabolism. U can check it out, I think I will!!

Arctic Mama
09-16-2009, 02:12 PM
I was surprised at the nutrient breakdown of a good food day for me - it was well over 60% carbohydrates! I do my best with energy and calories on a higher carb diet, but there's a catch - only the granola I eat for breakfast is a processed or refined carb, everything else was fruits and vegetables, by and large. For me to be successful I try to bulk about 3/4 of my lunch and dinner with fruits and veggies and then eat my main course/protein until I am satisfied. This has helped me not fill up on heavy, unhealthy, or nutritionally devoid food and now I am satisfied after pretty much every meal and still losing weight. Wheat products, among other things, are major food sensitivities for me, so cutting them out as much as possible really improves my health :)

DCHound
09-16-2009, 02:35 PM
We are all different. What works for you may not work for me. What works for me way not work for you. We are not all carbon copies of one another.

That said, the ONLY way I can lose weight is by virtually eliminating carbs. For me, there are no 'good' carbs and 'bad' carbs. ALL carbs are bad--for me. I am not a binge eater. However, give me a carb, any carb, and it will cause me to binge uncontrollably.

I went on Weight Watchers back in the 1990s. I stayed on it FAITHFULLY for almost a year. During that year, I had a net GAIN of about 20 lbs. I didn't know why, and I was frustrated, and angry, so I gave up on dieting altogether.

In 1999 I found Atkins. I didn't think it would work, nothing had. But I gave it a shot.

It worked. I went from 305 lbs size 28 to 225 size 18 in less than a year. Then I maintained for a couple years. Then, I went back on strict induction and lost about 50 lbs in early 2003. (Then life happened and I gained it all back plus more late 2003!) I had a giant carb-fest for the next five years. I never ate tons of food, but I did eat carbs with abandon. That landed me at 369.5 lbs when I began this journey in 2008.

Carbs are not evil. They are not the devil incarnate. MOST people can eat carbs, some many, some some, some few, and lose weight. I am not one of them. The only carbs in my diet come from leafy green vegetables and nuts. That's it. No sugar, no starch. No high- or even moderate-carb vegetables. No fruit. No additives. Nothing artificial. And no artificial sweeteners. It takes discipline, but I can do it, because it works.

There are not a lot of us out there, but there are a few others, like me, who simply cannot lose weight if carbs are a part of our diet. Eventually, when I reach goal weight, I will allow a minute portion of very strictly controlled carbs back in, while remaining very watchful of my weight and size. I'm talking, one or two servings of fruit or higher-carb veggies every few days. I will NEVER EVER EVER be able to eat bread, pasta or desserts EVER again. Most people don't have to live like that...I do. And that's OK. Because not being obese is far more important to me than any carb on earth.

But that's just me.

cfmama
09-16-2009, 02:49 PM
I really have to watch the KIND of carbs that I eat. I can eat any fruits and veg and whole grain versions of bread/rice/crackers/cereal etc. But let any "white" carbs creep in and I'm TOASTED! The same with artificial sweeteners... they will virtually stall my weight loss. As in I used to chew a TON of sugar free gum... I can't any more. No diet pops etc for me!

I do try to keep my carbs BELOW 50% of my daily intake... I prefer them more "zone" at around 40% carbs, 30% fat, 30% protein and it seems to work for me.

lottie63
09-16-2009, 02:56 PM
I have to go out of my way to get protein since I"m vegetarian and I Find this naturally keeps my carbs towards the low end of my daily nutrient goals on spark. I don't do it purposely, but I definately try to only eat brown grains, etc, except rice. I eat white rice because bf's parents bought us a GIANT bag from sams club cuz they didn't have brown rice. sometimes poverty is the rule of the day.

:P

but I find that the more white/refined carbs I eat the more I WANT to eat, so it works out best this way.

Alana in Canada
09-16-2009, 03:10 PM
onderchic--you're welcome--though I'm glad you asked! It helped clarify the discussion.

And DCHound--That's amazing. I was thinking as I read your post that you would really do well as a traditional Inuit! I've always thought that traditional diets were tied to the ecology of a particular place--but it could very well be that the physiology of individuals has adapted to the ecological opportunities expressed by the traditional "diet" as well.

Interesting.

Rainbow
09-16-2009, 03:21 PM
Yes - I'm not counting carbs but i am limiting them. Most days I'm avoiding bread, pasta, potato, etc. at lunch time and having small portions of these things in the evening if I want them. I find when I eat more than a limited amount of those things I don't lose weight so easily and I want to binge and they dont' fill me up. Strangely if I eat small amounts they fill me up, I don't want to binge and I lose weight.

Truffle
09-16-2009, 03:31 PM
We are all different. What works for you may not work for me. What works for me way not work for you. We are not all carbon copies of one another.

That said, the ONLY way I can lose weight is by virtually eliminating carbs. For me, there are no 'good' carbs and 'bad' carbs. ALL carbs are bad--for me. I am not a binge eater. However, give me a carb, any carb, and it will cause me to binge uncontrollably.

I went on Weight Watchers back in the 1990s. I stayed on it FAITHFULLY for almost a year. During that year, I had a net GAIN of about 20 lbs. I didn't know why, and I was frustrated, and angry, so I gave up on dieting altogether.

In 1999 I found Atkins. I didn't think it would work, nothing had. But I gave it a shot.

It worked. I went from 305 lbs size 28 to 225 size 18 in less than a year. Then I maintained for a couple years. Then, I went back on strict induction and lost about 50 lbs in early 2003. (Then life happened and I gained it all back plus more late 2003!) I had a giant carb-fest for the next five years. I never ate tons of food, but I did eat carbs with abandon. That landed me at 369.5 lbs when I began this journey in 2008.

Carbs are not evil. They are not the devil incarnate. MOST people can eat carbs, some many, some some, some few, and lose weight. I am not one of them. The only carbs in my diet come from leafy green vegetables and nuts. That's it. No sugar, no starch. No high- or even moderate-carb vegetables. No fruit. No additives. Nothing artificial. And no artificial sweeteners. It takes discipline, but I can do it, because it works.

There are not a lot of us out there, but there are a few others, like me, who simply cannot lose weight if carbs are a part of our diet. Eventually, when I reach goal weight, I will allow a minute portion of very strictly controlled carbs back in, while remaining very watchful of my weight and size. I'm talking, one or two servings of fruit or higher-carb veggies every few days. I will NEVER EVER EVER be able to eat bread, pasta or desserts EVER again. Most people don't have to live like that...I do. And that's OK. Because not being obese is far more important to me than any carb on earth.

But that's just me.

DCHound, you're doing very well, and you look great!

I'm afraid that what you've found for you might be the same for me. I'm not a protein lover at all, but I'm sure not losing anything with carbs in my life--whether the carbs are "good" or the supposedly "bad" ones.

ubergirl
09-16-2009, 04:08 PM
Here's what I've found:

I was eating such a high "bad carb" diet before--baked goods, bread, chips, candy, etc-- that when I started counting calories I thought I was eating "low carb." But to my surprise, I wasn't. Every day, my fitday counter breaks my foods into a neat little pie chart, and most days I'm spot on-- one third cabs, one third protein, one third fat.

Like others have mentioned, concentrated carbs, bread, pasta, rice and sweets, just seem to create an insatiable craving in me. The more I eat, the more I want. I cut them out entirely at first because I couldn't bear the thought of eating one portion, like half a cup of pasta. Half a cup????? My normal serving was two entire platefuls.

After going cold turkey for about 6 weeks, I started adding some of that stuff back in. Now, if I add a serving of rice or pasta, not every day, to one of my meals, it seems really good. I eat a ton of veggies and one to two servings of fruit daily. A lot of times, I get the feeling that the fruit is "too sweet" so I don't want much.

I'm losing weight great, and although I sometimes get hungry, I can tell it's real hunger-- it is entirely different sensation from the one that made me go back for thirds on pasta, or eat a bag of candy in a sitting.

DCHound
09-16-2009, 04:28 PM
At this point I don't even fantasize about them anymore...last time I was on Atkins I used to go to bed many nights and dream about cake...LOL. Strictly denying them for so long has sort of killed my degenerate love for them. I actually had a bite of birthday cake (one of my former uncontrollable binge items) at my neighbor's bday party in August and, y'all, it was disgusting. I had to wash it down. But I know, if I'd let myself have a second bite, that would have been it. So, glad to say, it was nasty and I don't miss it. :) I wouldn't mind an apple or a nectarine every now and then though...and I am looking forward to hitting goal then maintenance so I can have one every now and then.

Alana in Canada
09-16-2009, 04:48 PM
Well, dchound--and all you others who can't handle carbs--my hat is off to all of you!!

So, should we get a dancing cow emoticon instead of a dancing carrot?

DCHound
09-16-2009, 05:18 PM
Wow, I haven't had a carrot in...hmm...well over a year.

GirlyGirlSebas
09-16-2009, 05:40 PM
For me to lose weight, I can only have no more than 2 servings of fruits and two servings of whole grain per day. I can eat tons of veggies with no problems. And, of course, I must watch my calorie intake. In the past, I've calorie counted while eating whatever I wanted....with walking/wogging for an hour a day...and lost nothing! I believe that this is due to my hormonal imbalances. I'm in menopause due to a complete hysterectomy at the age of 42. And, turns out that I was estrogen dominant for years. Some of us are just more sensitive to refined carbs.

I recommend that you give the Southbeach diet a try. I love that program! One recommendation.....make the recipes. Don't try to live off of the marketed Southbeach diet approved products. You will probably find yourself disatisfied and hungry as I did initially.

kaplods
09-16-2009, 10:19 PM
...I thought I was eating "low carb." But to my surprise, I wasn't. Every day, my fitday counter breaks my foods into a neat little pie chart, and most days I'm spot on-- one third cabs, one third protein, one third fat.

Actually anything less than 50% of calories or 200g of carbohydrates per day is considered low-carb by many of the nutrition experts. The Zone Diet, for example, is 40% carb 30% fat, 30% protein (and is one of the "low-carb" diets described in The Low-Carb Bible, by Elizabeth Ward - good book, by the way).

Aclai4067
09-16-2009, 10:31 PM
I don't intentionally cut carbs. But because high carb foods are often high calorie foods, I find myself making different choices. I used to eat LOTS of pasta. Now pasta (other than lean cusine/smart ones types) is a special occasion that I have to plan for ahead of time. Although my diet is still by no means low carb; it's just that my diet used to be damn near ALL carb

ubergirl
09-16-2009, 11:20 PM
Although my diet is still by no means low carb; it's just that my diet used to be damn near ALL carb

Heh heh heh...

Me too...! :)

sherrybwc
09-16-2009, 11:20 PM
There's a difference between choosing healthier carbs for nutritive value or limiting carbs because they cause cravings and in following a low carb diet to lose weight.

Those of us who have lost significant amounts of weight due to a LC diet did so because we consistently restricted sufficient carbs so that our bodies were "re-trained" to use stored fat as the primary fuel source rather than what was recently consumed.

Key theme...consistence.

LC to lose weight works only if you consistently force your body to use its stored fat as the primary source of fuel. The down side is that it can take a body a suprisingly short amount of time to "re-boot", so to speak, to the way it's designed to process fuel.

In other words, you cannot LC one day and then not LC the next day and expect to lose weight at the same rate you would if you LC every day...again, consistence.

It can, however, benefit those who are losing weight very slowly while LC'ing to watch their calories.

As I've said before, I'm not knocking LC...it does work. I'm just saying that it only works as long as the body is kept in the fat-as-fuel mode.

S

Alana in Canada
09-17-2009, 12:00 AM
I'm am honestly not trying to start an argument: I'm trying to understand. I just can't think of any other way to put my concern and it might sound belligerent, and I don't mean it to.

Sherri, you say that those of you who followed a low-carbohydrate diet lost weight because your
bodies were "re-trained" to use stored fat as the primary fuel source rather than what was recently consumed.

Surely following a low-carb diet is not the only way to "re-train" our bodies to do this!

Every single person who is losing weight on this forum (whether low-carb or not) is burning stored fat as a primary source of fuel--aren't we?

What am I missing?

diabetic z
09-17-2009, 12:21 AM
Yes. (This only applies to me personally.)

Sherrybwc, you are so right. In my case, my diet is low carb and low calorie. This, along with daily exercise, has forced my body to burn my own fat as fuel. I suspect this is why I am seeing such rapid weight loss at the moment. Eventually, when I get closer to my goal weight, my dietitian will increase my caloric intake and introduce healthy carbs to my diet. This ramping up process will take some time. I will not be going from under 1000 calories per day (what I am at right now) to 1600 calories per day, overnight. Each increase will be small and done for a period of time before the next increase is initiated. This will prevent the body from converting the new calories as fat. All the while, my exercise regimen will need to compensate for the rise in ingested calories. It's certainly a balancing act. Throw in diabetes and the whole issue gets more complex.

I believe the following quote helps to explain why so many people are successful with so many different methods.

We are all different. What works for you may not work for me. What works for me way not work for you. We are not all carbon copies of one another...

I hope my rambling has helped. These are just my 2 cents.

Suezeeque
09-17-2009, 03:09 AM
We are all different. What works for you may not work for me. What works for me way not work for you. We are not all carbon copies of one another.

That said, the ONLY way I can lose weight is by virtually eliminating carbs. For me, there are no 'good' carbs and 'bad' carbs. ALL carbs are bad--for me. I am not a binge eater. However, give me a carb, any carb, and it will cause me to binge uncontrollably.

I went on Weight Watchers back in the 1990s. I stayed on it FAITHFULLY for almost a year. During that year, I had a net GAIN of about 20 lbs. I didn't know why, and I was frustrated, and angry, so I gave up on dieting altogether.

In 1999 I found Atkins. I didn't think it would work, nothing had. But I gave it a shot.

It worked. I went from 305 lbs size 28 to 225 size 18 in less than a year. Then I maintained for a couple years. Then, I went back on strict induction and lost about 50 lbs in early 2003. (Then life happened and I gained it all back plus more late 2003!) I had a giant carb-fest for the next five years. I never ate tons of food, but I did eat carbs with abandon. That landed me at 369.5 lbs when I began this journey in 2008.

Carbs are not evil. They are not the devil incarnate. MOST people can eat carbs, some many, some some, some few, and lose weight. I am not one of them. The only carbs in my diet come from leafy green vegetables and nuts. That's it. No sugar, no starch. No high- or even moderate-carb vegetables. No fruit. No additives. Nothing artificial. And no artificial sweeteners. It takes discipline, but I can do it, because it works.

There are not a lot of us out there, but there are a few others, like me, who simply cannot lose weight if carbs are a part of our diet. Eventually, when I reach goal weight, I will allow a minute portion of very strictly controlled carbs back in, while remaining very watchful of my weight and size. I'm talking, one or two servings of fruit or higher-carb veggies every few days. I will NEVER EVER EVER be able to eat bread, pasta or desserts EVER again. Most people don't have to live like that...I do. And that's OK. Because not being obese is far more important to me than any carb on earth.

But that's just me.

Hi. You didn't mention it, but are you diabetic? Your description sounds like someone who is; or maybe pre-diabetic. I say this because your description fits me and I'm pre-diabetic. I take my glucose reading every morning and that's how I found out I was insulin resistant. After an 8 month sugar fest when visiting my son, I started doing the testing again and my fasting glucose level is up and the vision in my left eye is affected. I'm praying I'm still insulin resistant and it can be "fixed" by eating low carb and that I haven't eaten myself into stage 2 diabetes. If you are just insulin resistant you will probably be able to introduce white food and sugar in moderate amounts on a controlled basis when you reach a "normal" weight. If you are diabetic, then no. Sounds like you are willing to do whatever you have to in any case.

Rosinante
09-17-2009, 03:55 AM
I lose weight and feel less depressed if I limit my flour-related carbs. I haven't noticed an issue with fruit carbs.

Too many flourcarbs deflate my mood and give me fluid retention; and I find them addictive, so 'one is never enough'; I haven't noticed any actual effect on fat loss.

Thought #1 - if I'm that problem free, I should get on with it!

Thought #2 - Alana - just noticed you're no longer a clipart avatar - aren't you pretty!!!!!

thisisnotatest
09-17-2009, 06:40 AM
I've always eaten high carb, fat or thin, losing or gaining.

But...the carbs I eat as a fat person gaining weight are fatty carbs like cookies, cake (I used to think icing was a food group ;)
Creamy high fat pastas, white bread with butter, etc.

Now its different-i eat pasta, but its whole grain, recently tried sprouted grain pasta and I like it-very very hard to over eat sprouted grain pasta. I also still eat bread with butter, but its a hearty mixed grain bread.

I recently made a chocolate cake that used 2 cups of pureed beets in the recipe. Recipe also called for 1.5 cups sugar which I omitted more then half of. Came out very good.

So I think the key for me has been subbing out refined for the real thing.
My body knows what to do with real carbs.
The refined carbs turn me into a jittery mess elbow deep in a processed can of frosting.

CJZee
09-17-2009, 06:52 AM
I have to go out of my way to get protein since I"m vegetarian and I Find this naturally keeps my carbs towards the low end of my daily nutrient goals on spark.

Hi Lottie! Most vegetarians eat mostly carbs (and a little fat) since vegetables and fruits ARE carbs. How can you eat a low-carb vegetarian diet? Just curious.

CJZee
09-17-2009, 07:43 AM
I know we're not talking about diabetics here, but I thought the following recent study was telling. It compares a very low-carb ketogenic diet with no calorie restrictions to a low-glycemic index diet with calorie restrictions. Keep in mind the goal was not weight reduction but to see diabetic glucose control

While both diets were helpful, the very low-carb diet "won" in every area:

Weight loss was 11.1 vs. 6.9 kg.
HDL (good cholesterol) went up 5.6 mg/DL vs. 0
Diabetes medication was reduced in 95% vs. 62% of the cases.

Here is the abstract and the link to it:

Department of Medicine, Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC, USA. ewestman@duke.edu.
ABSTRACT: OBJECTIVE: Dietary carbohydrate is the major determinant of postprandial glucose levels, and several clinical studies have shown that low-carbohydrate diets improve glycemic control. In this study, we tested the hypothesis that a diet lower in carbohydrate would lead to greater improvement in glycemic control over a 24-week period in patients with obesity and type 2 diabetes mellitus. RESEARCH DESIGN AND METHODS: Eighty-four community volunteers with obesity and type 2 diabetes were randomized to either a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet (<20 g of carbohydrate daily; LCKD) or a low-glycemic, reduced-calorie diet (500 kcal/day deficit from weight maintenance diet; LGID). Both groups received group meetings, nutritional supplementation, and an exercise recommendation. The main outcome was glycemic control, measured by hemoglobin A1c. RESULTS: Forty-nine (58.3%) participants completed the study. Both interventions led to improvements in hemoglobin A1c, fasting glucose, fasting insulin, and weight loss. The LCKD group had greater improvements in hemoglobin A1c (-1.5% vs. -0.5%, p = 0.03), body weight (-11.1 kg vs. -6.9 kg, p = 0.008), and high density lipoprotein cholesterol (+5.6 mg/dL vs. 0 mg/dL, p < 0.001) compared to the LGID group. Diabetes medications were reduced or eliminated in 95.2% of LCKD vs. 62% of LGID participants (p < 0.01). CONCLUSION: Dietary modification led to improvements in glycemic control and medication reduction/elimination in motivated volunteers with type 2 diabetes. The diet lower in carbohydrate led to greater improvements in glycemic control, and more frequent medication reduction/elimination than the low glycemic index diet. Lifestyle modification using low carbohydrate interventions is effective for improving and reversing type 2 diabetes.



This is the link (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19099589?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_PMC&linkpos=2&log$=citedinpmcarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed) to the abstract and related info.

yoyoma
09-17-2009, 08:03 AM
Personally, I've found it very helpful to limit starchy foods -- that includes whole grain products, potatoes, corn, etc. I don't have any problem with veggies (which I *love*) and fruit (which I'm not inclined to overeat).

I think my body *can* lose weight on a low calorie count that includes starchy carbs, but I have a much harder time staying on plan. I do much better when I focus on veggies, healthy fats (especially fish oil, which has also really helped my skin and memory, btw!), and protein.

kaplods
09-17-2009, 10:17 AM
Hi Lottie! Most vegetarians eat mostly carbs (and a little fat) since vegetables and fruits ARE carbs. How can you eat a low-carb vegetarian diet? Just curious.

Because low-carb encompasses any diet in which fewer than 50% of calories from carbohydrates, it is very possible to eat a low-carb vegetarian diet. It's a misconception that low-carb diets eliminate carbs. Most limit starchy carbs (grains) and high sugar fruits, so that leaves plenty of options. While it's nearly impossible to do Atkins (at least Induction level) vegetarian, it's quite easy to do the Zone or South Beach as a vegetarian (yes, I know South Beach is a "good carb" diet, but it generally does fall under the fewer than 50% calories from fat, category and is another diet that is featured in Elizabeth Wards The Low-carb Bible).

There are quite a few books on low-carb vegetarian dieting/cooking. I've been compiling a list of low-carb resources, and these are books on my "to read or buy" lists. While I'm not vegetarian, I'm not a "hunk-o-meat" omnivore, and like to have meatless recipes, yet high-carb food makes me hungrier.

Anyway, here are some of the vegetarian low-carb books. If you're interested you could order from your local library.


The Vegetarian Low-Carb Diet: The Fast, No-Hunger Weightloss Diet for Vegetarians by Rose Elliot (Paperback - Dec 1, 2006)

Low Carb Vegetarian by Margo Demello (Paperback - Aug 2004)

Carb Conscious Vegetarian: 150 Delicious Recipes for a Healthy Lifestyle by Robin Robertson (Paperback - Jun 16, 2005)

Low-Carb Vegetarian by Celia Brooks Brown (Paperback - Oct 21, 2004)

Low-Carb Vegetarian Cooking: 150 Entrees to Make Low-Carb Vegetarian Cooking Easy and Fun by Sue Spitler and R.D. Linda R. Yoakam (Paperback - Jan 13, 2005)

The Protein-Powered Vegetarian: From Meat to Vegetable Protein by Bo Sebastian (Paperback - Dec 6, 2000)

The Soy Zone: 101 Delicious and Easy-to-Prepare Recipes by Barry Sears (Paperback - May 8, 2001)

nelie
09-17-2009, 10:32 AM
CJZee - Different studies have shown various things and there certainly can be some bias. One interesting book I read by Dr Neal Barnard is the Diabetes Reversing diet which is a high carb vegetarian diet which he has shown to eliminate diabetes in the majority of patients as well as reduce A1C levels (I think that is right?) in those that diabetes remains. Of course a side effect was weight loss and improvement in blood work overall.

DCHound
09-17-2009, 10:42 AM
Suezeeque, I'm not diabetic, pre-diabetic or even hypoglycemic...it makes no sense that I'm not, I'm just really really lucky. I had two grandparents who were, one was Type 1 and one was Type 2. In fact I have no idea how my Type 1 grandfather even lived to adulthood. He was just super super careful with everything. My Type 2 grandmother wasn't. It didn't end up killing her but it made her life a living ****...before she was diagnosed with the cancer that killed her I suspect she was pushing 500 lbs.

When I was at my highest weight, I started having dizzy spells which may or may not have been some sort of pre-diabetes. I never went to the doctor so who knows. My mother, daughter of the type 2 grandmother, has lost probably 1,000 or so pounds at various times in her life, on many different diets (she's around 400 right now and I'm pushing her to get gastric bypass before the obesity kills her). When she was younger Mother lost easily on WW, calorie counting, Grapefruit 45, the Magic Soup diet, the banana diet, anything. I'm not like that. I couldn't lose on a doctor-prescribed 1,000 calories a day diet. Couldn't lose on WW. The only three things that have ever worked for me were dexatrim in junior high, starvation in college (like, 4 crackers and one Mountain Dew a day for 2 years) then Atkins.

I don't know why carbs affect my body like they do. I suspect I'm simply allergic to sugar. It's like cocaine, or crack, or even tobacco. I have some, get high, shake, am STARVING in half an hour, and have to have more. If you came between it and me, I mighta killed you. Or at least hurt you real bad. ;) That's an exaggeration, but, it was an addiction.

No carbs for me works. I am much happier and healthier now than I was at nearly 400 lbs. So if no carbs = health, so be it. Honestly I almost never miss them.

thistoo
09-17-2009, 10:46 AM
Even healthy, whole-grain carbs will make me gain. Not just 'not lose', GAIN. So yes, I have had to cut back in a major way. I gained all my weight on a vegetarian diet which was, naturally, high-carb. Since switching to organic, cruelty-free animal protein and vegetables as my main carb source, I've been able to lose, albeit sooo slowly. Talk about frustrating; finding the right balance for my body has been a nightmare.

My big exception is breakfast. I can eat carbs in the morning and be okay, so the bulk of my daily carb intake happens then. I usually eat oatmeal or a whole-grain bread or maybe yogurt with granola, and I eat most of my calories in that meal as a consequence. That's what works best for me, the whole 'breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince, dinner like a pauper' theory.

It kind of sucks! My sister is exactly the same way, though, so it's just our body chemistry. We're both pretty prone to the symptoms of PCOS, though neither of us has been diagnosed.

CJZee
09-17-2009, 12:19 PM
CJZee - Different studies have shown various things and there certainly can be some bias. One interesting book I read by Dr Neal Barnard is the Diabetes Reversing diet which is a high carb vegetarian diet which he has shown to eliminate diabetes in the majority of patients as well as reduce A1C levels (I think that is right?) in those that diabetes remains. Of course a side effect was weight loss and improvement in blood work overall.

A very good point, Nelie. The recommendations for both diabetic and weight loss diets are all over the board because the studies are all over the board. Actually, I think that there are probably many ways to attack diabetes, just as there are many ways to attack weight loss. You will note that although the very low carb diet in the study I cited got "better" results than the low-glycemic index diet, both made significant reductions in both weight and blood glucose levels.

I think a key thing to any good eating plan is eliminating the carb/fat combinations like pastries, candy and fried carbs etc. and sticking to veggies and (for most people) fruits and whole grains for the majority of your carbs. I also think fats have gotten a bad rap because they're usually also present in the "bad carb" group because you need fat to make candy and cookies and french fries. You have to watch your fat intake because it has a lot of calories, but from everything I've read, fat (by itself) it is pretty benign when it comes to glucose control.

CJZee
09-17-2009, 12:23 PM
Because low-carb encompasses any diet in which fewer than 50% of calories from carbohydrates, it is very possible to eat a low-carb vegetarian diet. It's a misconception that low-carb diets eliminate carbs. Most limit starchy carbs (grains) and high sugar fruits, so that leaves plenty of options. While it's nearly impossible to do Atkins (at least Induction level) vegetarian, it's quite easy to do the Zone or South Beach as a vegetarian (yes, I know South Beach is a "good carb" diet, but it generally does fall under the fewer than 50% calories from fat, category and is another diet that is featured in Elizabeth Wards The Low-carb Bible).



Thank you so much for the list of books! I guess I didn't realize that anything below 50% is considered "low-carb" diet.

Suezeeque
10-06-2009, 01:57 PM
Suezeeque, I'm not diabetic, pre-diabetic or even hypoglycemic...it makes no sense that I'm not, I'm just really really lucky. I had two grandparents who were, one was Type 1 and one was Type 2. In fact I have no idea how my Type 1 grandfather even lived to adulthood. He was just super super careful with everything. My Type 2 grandmother wasn't. It didn't end up killing her but it made her life a living ****...before she was diagnosed with the cancer that killed her I suspect she was pushing 500 lbs.

When I was at my highest weight, I started having dizzy spells which may or may not have been some sort of pre-diabetes. I never went to the doctor so who knows. My mother, daughter of the type 2 grandmother, has lost probably 1,000 or so pounds at various times in her life, on many different diets (she's around 400 right now and I'm pushing her to get gastric bypass before the obesity kills her). When she was younger Mother lost easily on WW, calorie counting, Grapefruit 45, the Magic Soup diet, the banana diet, anything. I'm not like that. I couldn't lose on a doctor-prescribed 1,000 calories a day diet. Couldn't lose on WW. The only three things that have ever worked for me were dexatrim in junior high, starvation in college (like, 4 crackers and one Mountain Dew a day for 2 years) then Atkins.

I don't know why carbs affect my body like they do. I suspect I'm simply allergic to sugar. It's like cocaine, or crack, or even tobacco. I have some, get high, shake, am STARVING in half an hour, and have to have more. If you came between it and me, I mighta killed you. Or at least hurt you real bad. ;) That's an exaggeration, but, it was an addiction.

No carbs for me works. I am much happier and healthier now than I was at nearly 400 lbs. So if no carbs = health, so be it. Honestly I almost never miss them.

It sounds like you have major fluctuations in your blood glucose level when you eat carbs. Something is definitely out of whack. But it sounds like you have learned to manage it and keep it within normal range since you haven't been diagnosed as diabetic.

The dizzy spells would more likely be high blood pressure. That's a fairly common symptom of really high bp. Losing weight has an immediate effect on this as I can attest to; also exercise.

I've never been a carb aficionado so maybe that's what has kept me from full blown diabetes; and now that I've lost only 13.5lbs my glucose level has already returned to almost normal.

The things we do to ourselves.