Diabetes Support - Do you suppose this Dawn effect is a definite beginning to diabetes?

One morning I woke and ready to go out for a walk but felt a little shaky so decided to check my BG and low and behold it was 115. (I have had spells of hypo but usually after exercise.)
I've taken it for the last 2½ weeks and it's been between 108-120. I've checked 2 hours after eating and it is always down to almost 100. I just had an A1c test in June and it was 6.

A few years ago I also had this problem for 3 months and then it became normal again.
Is this the beginning of diabetes?
I am not sick.
I have one sister with Diabetes 2.

If this is the Dawn effect what can I do to correct it?
I've tried eating before bed. Carbs, next day protein, next day nuts. Nothing I've done has made any difference.

I walk 4 or 5 times a day for 45 min.
I try and eat healthy. No processed foods and no fast food.

Any advice here.

I'm not sure you can get the Dawn Phenomenom without being diabetic- but I'm not sure. I am type 1. I do know those numbers put you in the "impaired fasting glucose"- can mean prediabetes. Generally, weight loss is the best prevention for type 2- so you are in the right place! 2 fasting blood sugars (no food for the previous 8 hours is fasting) above 126 is the diagnostic criteria- so make sure you are truly fasting.

The research I have been doing would seem to indicate that
Fasting blood sugar is the last thing to go...
That means you body can struggle a bit after meals,
but given enough time, fasting, it gets itself under control...

The bugaboo about the "dawn" phenomena is that the body
seems to dump a bunch of insulin as you prepare to wake
so your body can get it's systems up and running ...

David Mendosa's pages have quite a bit on this ...
I am unable to post links yet... but put Mendosa Diabetes
into a search engine like google and you can find his pages
He is a freelance writer and great researcher He was diag type II
And furiously has written about many things ...

My 2c.
The Orange One

rnmom2two, I don't need to lose weight. I do fast for at least 8 or more hours. I'm sure this is Impaired fasting glucose.

PSP Orange, I will check out Mendosa's website.
Actually since I posted last I've found out my A1c is 6.5. So now I'm trying to figure out the best way to go on eating. The Doc suggested the GI Index but everyone else I've been talking to say go low, low carb. I don't know if I can follow that strict of a low carb eating. I've done it before and only lasted a few years.

I've just changed to a new Dr. and will see him on Wed. Sure hoping he will give me some better info and at least a follow up, something the other Dr. wasn't.

Thanks to you both for your replies.

I've read that the Dawn phenomenon is proabable "normal" to a certain degree in non-diabetics, in that the raise in blood sugar may be the body's way to prepare for the day - give an energy burst to go and hunt/gather food.

I wouldn't consider it as "proof" of diabetes.

This is a good explanation of some different causes of high blood sugar in the morning:

American Diabetic Association: "Rocky Morning Highs" (http://forecast.diabetes.org/magazine/features/rocky-morning-highs)

I've read that the Dawn phenomenon is proabable "normal" to a certain degree in non-diabetics, in that the raise in blood sugar may be the body's way to prepare for the day - give an energy burst to go and hunt/gather food.

I wouldn't consider it as "proof" of diabetes.


From what I read it says this does happen with non diabetics but it comes back to normal very quickly. In pre or diabetics it doesn't do that until you eat something.

Julie, off to read your link. Thanks

From what I read it says this does happen with non diabetics but it comes back to normal very quickly. In pre or diabetics it doesn't do that until you eat something.

Julie, off to read your link. Thanks


Are you talking about low blood sugar or high blood sugar in the morning - the Dawn effect is a high blood sugar spike, and so eating would seem counterintuitive. In fact, from what I've been reading of it, the recommended course of action is to discontinue late snacks, at least of the carbohydrate variety and/or increase insulin or blood sugar control medication in the morning (if you're on such medications), sometimes even recommending postponing breakfast, or eating a very low-carb breakfast.

As I stated in my original post, I have pre-diabetic spike in the morning. If I don't eat it climbs, as it did this morning when I didn't eat right away, to 125. From what I've read it helps to eat protein in the morning to bring it down...and it does.
I'm eating a low carb diet and did not eat before bedtime. I'm not on medication yet.

As I stated in my original post, I have pre-diabetic spike in the morning. If I don't eat it climbs, as it did this morning when I didn't eat right away, to 125. From what I've read it helps to eat protein in the morning to bring it down...and it does.
I'm eating a low carb diet and did not eat before bedtime. I'm not on medication yet.

That's what I thought. I didn't see how eating would help (until you specified eating protein - eating any carbs with the protein - I would think would contribute to the problem).

My doctor told me that only Type I diabetics and Type II diabetics on injectible insulin "had to worry" about the Dawn effect, so I haven't really given it much thought or research beyond the basics. I'm on metformin, and have pre-diabetes/insulin resistance, my doctor recommended that "for all practical purposes" I should consider myself diabetic. My husband is also diabetic, also type II - but he is on insulin. He sleeps through the classic "dawn effect" period, and hasn't had any problems so far, with early morning blood sugar testing.

My doctor told me that only Type I diabetics and Type II diabetics on injectible insulin "had to worry" about the Dawn effect, so I haven't really given it much thought or research beyond the basics. I'm on metformin, and have pre-diabetes/insulin resistance, my doctor recommended that "for all practical purposes" I should consider myself diabetic. My husband is also diabetic, also type II - but he is on insulin. He sleeps through the classic "dawn effect" period, and hasn't had any problems so far, with early morning blood sugar testing.

Hi Kaplods! I have been reading quite a bit on the "dawn effect" and one thing that apparently works for many people is to eat a small snack of carbs and protein right before bed (like maybe crackers and cheese). Because the meal is small and includes carbs, protein and fat, this gives a small but long-lasting insulin response so that when your body starts to wake up by pumping up blood sugar the next morning, the insulin from the night before helps to moderate the sugar spike. (This is assuming your body makes any insulin, of course.)

I am not diabetic but it runs in my family so I track my blood sugar very closely. My fiance is diabetic, so I read about it a lot.

I've discovered that if I have beans (like black bean soup) the previous day, it really lowers the morning blood sugar. I have tried this over and over again and it honestly seems to lower my morning blood sugar by at least 20 points. The other day, my fasting blood sugar was 57! This may just be me, YMMV.

Isn't 57 in the "dangerously low" category? Or is that only for diabetics on meds.

thanks Julie, that was a great link "rocky morning high". Not so sure that I want to go to the extent of waking up at 3am to test, but nice to know there is that option.... I was very excited to find that my BSL was almost at normal level today (the numbers are different here in Australia). I have always battled with high morning numbers, but my A1c shows I have good control. I think just this little bit of weight I have lost (so far) has made the difference. I am also back on Metformin, which upset my stomach before. I now take it in the middle of the evening meal, and that seems to help greatly.

Isn't 57 in the "dangerously low" category? Or is that only for diabetics on meds.

Thank you for bringing this up. I asked my doctor about it. I thought it was way low also. He seemed unconcerned, but it bothers me that he doesn't take the possibility of low blood sugar seriously.

I sometimes get very woozy in the afternoon if I haven't eaten in awhile, I mean seriously weak. I have found eating a little packet of raisins or other fast-acting carbs reverses the feeling withing a few minutes, so to me that said my blood sugar was too low. (This was before I was metering it.) I discussed it with my doctor, and he again pooh-poohed it, saying I was probably just "hungry". I explained to him that simply eating didn't resolve the issue immediately unless it was something sugary, but it made no difference to him. He said that unless you're a Type 1 diabetic, that almost no one has blood sugar low enough to be an issue.

I guess we all have to be our own doctors sometimes.

What is your blood sugar when you're feeling seriously woozy in the afternoon?

It seems that every year doctors have less and less time for patients, so it sure does seem that to get the best medical care you've got to do a lot of the "leg work" for yourself. My husband and I joke (but half-seriously) that you have to complain about something at least 6 times before a doctor will take any action (order a test, prescribe a treatment...). It's hard for hubby, because if he complains, and the doctor says there's "nothing that can be done," or that he doesn't think it's serious, hubby will never mention it again. We go in with each other for our appointments (for me it's a necessity, I have short term memory issues, so hubby helps by being a witness/memory/notetaker). So after hubby brings up an issue once, I bring it up the next several times, and THEN the doctor finally says or does something constructive.

It's frustrating for patients who aren't likely to complain, or who will say "nothing has changed," rather than go into the gory details of current symptoms.

But back to blood sugar. I haven't ever taken my blood sugar when it drops - but I definitely can tell, because I get the shaky, nauseous, weak, woozy feeling too (and according to hubby I get meaner than a bear poked with a stick, right before I feel sick). And it definitely is not only hunger (at least if it gets past the angry bear stage), because a 10 calorie candy helps more than 200 calories of jerky.

It may not be life threatening, but it definitely IS an issue.

What is your blood sugar when you're feeling seriously woozy in the afternoon?

Hi Julie -- I just recently started testing my blood glucose, so I don't know. I try really really hard to avoid this because -- as with kaplods -- I am so MEAN when I get to this point it's like I become another person altogether. Since I figured out the raisin thing I now carry a little pack with me all the time and if I start down this path I eat them right away and it always helps. I'm also trying to increase eating frequency to avoid the spikes and dips of blood sugar all together.

That said -- if this feeling starts to happen again, I'll see what the blood sugar actually is. Thanks for asking.

But back to blood sugar. I haven't ever taken my blood sugar when it drops - but I definitely can tell, because I get the shaky, nauseous, weak, woozy feeling too (and according to hubby I get meaner than a bear poked with a stick, right before I feel sick). And it definitely is not only hunger (at least if it gets past the angry bear stage), because a 10 calorie helps more than 200 calories of jerky.

It may not be life threatening, but it definitely IS an issue.

Hi Kaplods -- this is soooooo true for me. I get frantic and mean when I get to this point. I can't even articulate how I feel, just awful.

When I first started dating my fiance, this happened on a day trip (because, like many men, he'll go all day without eating) where we hadn't eaten all day and it was approaching 4 p.m. I remember telling him "I have to eat something NOW." He apparently thought I meant "Let's have an early dinner" but I really meant "give me food NOW or I will go crazy" which I proceeded to do.

After this episode, it is to our great credit that we are still together. He still doesn't understand it but he knows that we can't go all day without eating and if I mention food it isn't just idle talk.

BTW, I love reading your posts. They seem so honest and true.

LOL, I so know what you mean. Hubby has also been on the wrong end of the bear-poking stick often enough that now HE can tell when I'm starting to get to that blood sugar dropping level of hungry before I do. He's the one who asks, before we set out on errands if I have my granola bar with me. As he says, it's not for my sake that he asks, but his.

Dawn Phenomenon - ugh, battled it for about a year from the point of diagnosis of my type 2. The ONLY thing I found that worked for mine is adhering to a very strict low carb diet. Snacks (whether carbs, protein, fat, or combo) before bed did nothing for me, and changing my metformin from dinner time to bed time to first thing in the morning...none of it helped. I could not, for the life of me, have multiple days of fasting morning readings below 100.

Until I severely limited my carbs. I mean SEVERELY. I only average about 15g total carbs per DAY. My rule is no more than 5g total carbs at any one time. I also do NOT limit my fat intake at all, as fat helps to slow the absorption of the carbs. With this plan, I consistently find fasting morning readings in the 80s or high 70s, and I don't ever spike over 120.

I am not suggesting this for everyone, by any means, but a less severe carb restriction may work for some. DP is definitely an annoyance and also definitely a YMMV issue in finding a solution.