General chatter - Who Will Watch Michael Vick Play Football?




babenwaiting
08-16-2009, 12:06 AM
Not me!!! Even when my Carolina Panthers play the Philadelphia Eagles, they'll have to do without my support during those games. When I think of the terror and misery and death he caused with his dog-fighting ring, he doesn't deserve a second chance, IMHO.


harrismm
08-16-2009, 12:08 AM
Nope.

ohiofreespirit
08-16-2009, 02:04 AM
i think a lot of people feel that way. Me, i'm not sure. i love animals, have several of them. i may choose not to watch.


Tracy
08-16-2009, 08:58 AM
Absolutely Not! I can't believe after all he did ,they are allowing him to play:mad:

Deana
08-16-2009, 12:46 PM
I was living in the Hampton Roads area at the time the whole investigation went down. I feel torn. I am a HUGE animal lover, I have two dogs myself that are like children to me. I was/am so angry and disturbed that people could do things of that nature to animals. Even the cock fighting just UGHHHHHHH boils my blood:mad:. But the reality is he did serve his time, and he paid a HUGE price. His name is dirt in the Hampton Roads area (his hometown) and from what I'm hearing he is still being harassed by activists groups. I can't say I feel sorry for him b/c he made his bed but I do feel he has become a scapegoat particularly since he was *apparently* not involved in the day to day operations of the dog fighting, yet all the others got off with a slap on the wrist b/c they turned against him and the justice system was able to use him as an example. I don't believe in that. Some of the other men had way more blood on their hands than Vick and did not suffer half as much. I, personally, will not support him or watch his games. But I can't say I fault the NFL for giving him a second chance.

girllovesmath
08-16-2009, 02:01 PM
I'm just glad the Ravens don't play the Eagles this year... what were they thinking??

Sweetcaroline
08-16-2009, 07:33 PM
I hope Michael Vick suffers a career ending injury on the first play of the season and spends the rest of his life in horrible pain... sorry... that's it...

EZMONEY
08-16-2009, 10:15 PM
I am a believer in second chances and Vick paid his debt to society by the law.

I wish he would have taken this year to stay/get in shape...got out in the public eye...taken his abuse from the folks and got busy doing something visible to show he is remorseful....

then got back to football.

BarbPA
08-16-2009, 10:31 PM
I live in Philly and we are huge Eagles fans. I'm not loving the situation, but I can't turn my back on the team....so I'll be watching him...if he gets any play time.
:dizzy:

TJFitnessDiva
08-16-2009, 10:58 PM
My husband is a huge Eagles fan but he's totally disgusted with the team right now....so yeah we are not watching this year.

Personally I think he should have been assigned to be a pooper scooper of a Great Dane Kennel for the rest of his life.

nelie
08-16-2009, 11:25 PM
I am a believer in second chances but I don't necessarily believe second chances involve the privilege of being a highly paid football 'star'. It is a privilege and why not give someone else the chance, someone who may appreciate it more?

patchworkpenguin
08-17-2009, 12:52 AM
I don't watch football anyway, but my beef is with the NFL. I thought they banned Michael for life, if they are going back on their decision, that is just wrong. Stating consequences and then 'going back on them' teaches us that their are no consequences no matter what the stituation.

babenwaiting
08-17-2009, 02:14 AM
I am a believer in second chances and Vick paid his debt to society by the law.

You know I love you 'cause you're such a hockey buddy, EZ ;), but there is nothing Vick can do to pay for what he's done, really. I went back and re-read some of the things he participated in and sponsored over his five years with the dog fighting, and it made me sick all over again! I think he's sorry, alright ... Sorry that he got caught, that is! Anybody who could do those things to begin with couldn't have enough of a conscience to feel any remorse! :mad:

I'm finding all these replies really interesting ... keep 'em coming, guys!

FrouFrou
08-17-2009, 08:28 AM
I too am a dog lover and hate to see anyone do anything mean to an animal but...it's not like he killed someone and he did do his time so...I WILL watch him...and I would NEVER wish something bad on any person...bad karma.

EZMONEY
08-17-2009, 08:34 AM
You know I love you 'cause you're such a hockey buddy, EZ ;), but there is nothing Vick can do to pay for what he's done, really. I went back and re-read some of the things he participated in and sponsored over his five years with the dog fighting, and it made me sick all over again! I think he's sorry, alright ... Sorry that he got caught, that is! Anybody who could do those things to begin with couldn't have enough of a conscience to feel any remorse! :mad:

I'm finding all these replies really interesting ... keep 'em coming, guys!

I agree BABE....that is why I said he paid his debt to society by what the "law" says...

But NELIE I understand what you mean too, but isn't football his job? If he paid his "debt" shouldn't he be able to go back to work?

Would anyone be too upset if he did the same thing as a drywall finisher, did his time, and then came back to work side by side with me? I don't think so...

are we all mad because he is making buckets of money again?

mayness
08-17-2009, 08:48 AM
I wish he would have taken this year to stay/get in shape...got out in the public eye...taken his abuse from the folks and got busy doing something visible to show he is remorseful....

then got back to football.

I'm with EZ on this... I think he's rushing back into things faster than he should. But I'll definitely watch the games - from a football fan point of view, I'm really curious how they'll use him.

babenwaiting
08-17-2009, 02:37 PM
...it's not like he killed someone and he did do his time so...I WILL watch him...and I would NEVER wish something bad on any person...bad karma.

Excuse me, but he did kill "someone" in a sense. Heaven only knows how many dogs died in his dogfights, and he was responsible for their deaths ... the dogs ripped apart and enduring terrible suffering ... as he enjoyed watching. IMHO, he deserves no second chance and no mercy! :mad:

sprklemajik
08-17-2009, 02:51 PM
My vote is for he's been to prison, now he can go back to work.

Shannon in ATL
08-17-2009, 03:16 PM
I have three thoughts on the Michael Vick situation...

1) I despise the things that he did, and certainly wouldn't want him playing for the Falcons again.

2) I also believe that he paid his debt under the law and has the right to start living his life again. Everyone deserves a second chance - isn't that a basic tenet of a lot of people's faith? Everyone deserves forgiveness, etc? He deserves the right to work, he just happens to have a skill that is highly paid and recognized. (EZ - I hear your point, would people be as bothered if he came to work with you hanging drywall?)

3) I also agree that if the NFL posted a sanction originally that they should have stood by it. (Honestly, I didn't keep up with it at the time so I don't know what their stance was originally.) That is one of the big things I've learned with my stepson - if you say you are going to do a thing you have to do it, otherwise you lose integrity and credibility.

That being said, I won't watch him play or buy tickets or items that support him.

david
08-17-2009, 03:24 PM
ill watch when the raiders play the eagles...he jumped through all the hoops to say hes sorry, who knows if he means it...he paid his debt to society

TJFitnessDiva
08-17-2009, 03:29 PM
are we all mad because he is makind buckets of money again?

No it's the disgusting events that he participated in & he's never looked the least bit sorry for what has happened. He isn't stupid & if he's ever participated in dog fights as an owner or an observer then he knows what those dogs go through. That is why I'm mad over him getting to be in the spotlight again.

I do believe in second chances for the most part but if someone can be intentionally *that* mean to not only one animal but a lot of them then no he doesn't get another chance with me. He's the lowest of the scum in my book...right behind child molesters.

Shannon in ATL
08-17-2009, 03:33 PM
Not to hijack, but Tanee, I don't think I've said this yet even though I've thought it several times - your new avatar pic is fab! :)

nelie
08-17-2009, 03:36 PM
I agree BABE....that is why I said he paid his debt to society by what the "law" says...

But NELIE I understand what you mean too, but isn't football his job? If he paid his "debt" shouldn't he be able to go back to work?

Would anyone be too upset if he did the same thing as a drywall finisher, did his time, and then came back to work side by side with me? I don't think so...

are we all mad because he is makind buckets of money again?

I think professional sports players should be held up to a standard of ethics and if they commit certain crimes, then they should be banned for life.

For me, I have some certifications and if I do something illegal, my certifications can be stripped from me. If lawyers/doctors do things, their licenses can be stripped for life.

So why be different for professional sports players who are generally looked up to as role models?

tikanique
08-17-2009, 05:25 PM
I will definitely watch Vick play and I wish him all the best - unless he's playing Pittsburgh or Tennessee.

ANOther
08-17-2009, 06:46 PM
1. It doesn't matter to me whether Vick is Hitler or Mother Teresa, I wouldn't see him anyway, I'm not that much of a football nut. (The Vikings were apparently interested in making him an offer as a Plan B after Brett Favre decided not to come out of retirement. ETA 08.18: And now it looks as though Favre IS going to sign with the Vikes: go figure!)

2. As for "paying his debt to society", no matter what the corrections system says, is the legal tender for that debt necessarily X months spent in the joint, and then OK, you can now return to your normally scheduled life? (HIJACK I gotta laugh, you look up Bernie Madoff on the federal prison website, his scheduled date of release is November 2139: he was sentenced to 150 years and they've already given him 20 years of good time! He'll never live that long, what are they gonna do if he acts like an @$$, take it back? END HIJACK)

A letter writer in today's (08.18) USA Today says "Shame on the NFL, the Eagles and on former NFL coach Tony Dungy for acting as Vick's mentor". Why shame on Dungy? Would the letter writer just say throw Vick on the garbage heap and let him rot? Dungy's not acting in the name of the NFL; he evidently believes in the possibility of regeneration; it's up to Vick to prove Dungy is right to have faith in him, and it's gonna take more than just fine words, or 10 Our Fathers and 10 Hail Marys or accepting Jesus as your savior or however Dungy believes in doing penance. Sure, Vick should be able to support himself and his family in an out-of-the-public-eye job (EZMoney, hanging drywall would be fine), but I'd say he should do a lot of hours of community service at animal shelters, under heavy supervision, make sure he looks into the eyes of loadsa abused cats and dogs (particularly from the dogfight division), until he cracks and devotes himself to crusading AGAINST dogfighting, before he's ready to get back on the football field or the broadcast booth. :soap:

EZMONEY
08-17-2009, 11:37 PM
No it's the disgusting events that he participated in & he's never looked the least bit sorry for what has happened. He isn't stupid & if he's ever participated in dog fights as an owner or an observer then he knows what those dogs go through. That is why I'm mad over him getting to be in the spotlight again.

He said he cried a lot of nights in prison.

I do believe in second chances for the most part but if someone can be intentionally *that* mean to not only one animal but a lot of them then no he doesn't get another chance with me. He's the lowest of the scum in my book...right behind child molesters.

It would truly be painful...if not impossible...for me to give him a 2nd chance if he hurt my dogs!

I think professional sports players should be held up to a standard of ethics and if they commit certain crimes, then they should be banned for life.

What about professionla drywall finishers or cooks or mechanics or 3FC Moderators...?

For me, I have some certifications and if I do something illegal, my certifications can be stripped from me. If lawyers/doctors do things, their licenses can be stripped for life.

Would you lose your certification or a lawyer or doctor lose their license if they did what Vick did?

So why be different for professional sports players who are generally looked up to as role models?

What if they don't ask or want to be a role model?

I will definitely watch Vick play and I wish him all the best - unless he's playing Pittsburgh or Tennessee.

You are a selfish woman.

tikanique
08-17-2009, 11:40 PM
@ EZ Money. hey, it is what it is. Nothing could make me have well wishes for anybody going up against my teams. Shoot, I might even cheer against my mom if she was playing against the Vols. ;-)

EZMONEY
08-17-2009, 11:43 PM
@ EZ Money. hey, it is what it is. Nothing could make me have well wishes for anybody going up against my teams. Shoot, I might even cheer against my mom if she was playing against the Vols. ;-)

The way they have been looking I think your mom plays for the vols! ;)

TJFitnessDiva
08-17-2009, 11:44 PM
lol yeah he said he cried a lot in prison...I just bet. *eyeroll* One can only hope he wore the pink panties on the block ;)

EZMONEY
08-17-2009, 11:48 PM
lol yeah he said he cried a lot in prison...I just bet. *eyeroll* One can only hope he wore the pink panties on the block ;)

:D I was thinking the same thing when I read what he said!

tikanique
08-17-2009, 11:50 PM
Oh snap EZ, that was wrong. LOL!! Again, new year, new coach. Hopefully his first season won't stink like Rodriguez'.

On a serious note, I believe he did cry. He went from being a multimillionaire with the sky as his limit to a prison jumpsuit, a cot and a complete loss of freedom. Heck I'd cry if I was locked up for a day. However, that is the past. If God can forgive me all the mess I've done and give me chance after chance after chance then who am I to say that I don't forgive this man and don't want him to have a chance? Do your thing, Vick.

EZMONEY
08-17-2009, 11:53 PM
Me too dear...and if you go back you will see I think he deserves a second chance too...I just am questioning his remorse for the moment...

tikanique
08-18-2009, 12:12 AM
I never doubted that you would believe he deserves a second chance. I was replying in general, not to you specifically. Mine and your only disagreement is how long he should have waited. I think it would have hurt his chances to get signed if he had waited till next year. According to the Eagles trainers, he is only 2 lbs heavier than they want him to be and he still has all of pre-season and the first 6 games to get it in gear.

I never seriously disagree with you EZ, unless it's SEC vs. Pac 10 :-)

EZMONEY
08-18-2009, 12:22 AM
I know....hug

TJFitnessDiva
08-18-2009, 01:13 AM
:D I was thinking the same thing when I read what he said!

lol I have three brothers (I'm the oldest of 7) that have been in and out of jail their entire adult life & a good bit of their teen years...the first thing that happens is that they cry & say they are sorry *blah blah* riiiiiight, oh and second they are all innocent...every.single.one. that is locked up ugh! the last is usually that they become a "born again" christian & quote verses better than a preacher :lol: They just have never admitted if they wore the panties or not ;)

kiahna23
08-18-2009, 01:19 AM
I thought it was bull that he did that to those animals...Humans dont think of animals as living beings...They feel pain just like humans do...He may have not been there when the things were happening but he knew! His cousins were the ones who did it and he didnt want to be a snitch...I guess....But I think he is an awful person for what he allowed to take place on one of his properties...He profited and allowed it...Hes awful...poor animals....

:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:( :(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

kiahna23
08-18-2009, 01:22 AM
But...I do believe in second chances...humans arent perfect....let him live his life...HUmans are too harsh with eachother....but he is still awful....he paid his debt....Im not judging him as a person just his act towards those poor animals....I couldnt imagine anyone hurting my little baby lucian...he my rottweiler puppy...4months old.

babenwaiting
08-18-2009, 09:16 AM
I thought it was bull that he did that to those animals...Humans dont think of animals as living beings...They feel pain just like humans do...He may have not been there when the things were happening but he knew! His cousins were the ones who did it and he didnt want to be a snitch...I guess....But I think he is an awful person for what he allowed to take place on one of his properties...He profited and allowed it...Hes awful...poor animals....

:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:( :(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

KIAHNA23, but he WAS there ... a great deal of the time, and PARTICIPATING!!! He behaved in a sub-human manner for FIVE YEARS!!! He's doing a good performance right now of someone who's sorry ... maybe he needs an Academy Award instead of a football! Completely, totally revolting ... he belongs in a garbage can! :mad::mad::mad:

nelie
08-18-2009, 10:47 AM
EZ - I would lose my certifications if I did what Vick did as well as any lawyer (I am not a lawyer). I would have to basically change my career but it would be the price I'd pay for violating proper ethical conduct.

Like it or not, football players and other sports figures are looked up as role models. They are put on a pedestal. Just by taking the job, they are asking to be those role models.

As I said before, I think there needs to be long standing consequences in professional sports for certain crimes. That way players know if they do such things, they will be banned for life.

All the NFL cares about is money though, not ethics.

Kim_Star060404
08-18-2009, 11:44 AM
Like it or not, football players and other sports figures are looked up as role models. They are put on a pedestal. Just by taking the job, they are asking to be those role models.

Right, but WE'RE the ones who put them on the pedestals!! I do not admire somebody because they are an athlete, I admire them because they are an athlete and make the right choices. If a child idolizes Dante Stallworth just because he is a football player, it's the parents job to set the record straight and explain why Stallworth isn't someone we should look up to, NOT STALLWORTH'S job!!! If we, as a society, say that all football players need to go into it thinking "now I have to be a role model", then that's society's problem. It's unrealistic and unfair. That's like saying that all lawyers, politicians, doctors, actors, dancers or anyone else who does any job EVER should be a good role model. We're the ones that decide who is in the public eye. A football player's job is to be a good football player. Bottom line, that's all there is. If a doctor screws up in his personal life, isn't a board who decides whether he gets to keep his license? Same with the NFL, the commissioner makes the decision. Not you, not me.

And I agree with EZ, his job is his job. Any other human being who has served his time, according to the law, should get the chance to go back to their job unless their job puts them into contact with potential victims. I'm sad and angry about what happened and what Vick was involved in, but I'm not going to deny him the second chance I would grant any other member of society just because he makes lots of money. We are such a hypocritical society it makes me want to puke.

nelie
08-18-2009, 12:15 PM
Kim - The true fact is that not everyone who commits a crime can go back to their job after they commit a crime. Pete Rose is a definite sports example and there have been other cases of athletes that were banned for various things from steroid use to criminal activities.

Kim_Star060404
08-18-2009, 12:26 PM
Kim - The true fact is that not everyone who commits a crime can go back to their job after they commit a crime. Pete Rose is a definite sports example and there have been other cases of athletes that were banned for various things from steroid use to criminal activities.

Pete Rose and steroid users = poor example. Those criminal activities were direct conflicts if interests in their sports careers, not just their personal lives. That is why they were banned. What Vick did has nothing to do with football. Obviously a child molester can't go back to work as a childcare provider, but if they were a drywall installer before, why can't they go back to installing drywall if they serve their time?



The other problem I have with Vick complainers is this; Dante Stallworth KILLED A HUMAN and was only suspended for a year and only served 24 days in prison and I haven't read a single complaint about that. Is the life of a dog worth more than that of a human?! Where is that controversy? Why hasn't he been thrown into this mix?


Oh, and in response to the original question; I'm not an Eagles fan, but if I were, I'd still support them and watch the games.

Onederchic
08-18-2009, 12:27 PM
I don't agree with what he did, for sure but I don't watch football so..that's it on this for me :D

JulieJ08
08-18-2009, 12:31 PM
Would you lose your certification or a lawyer or doctor lose their license if they did what Vick did?

Could be. No one can answer if the exact same felony would result in a physician losing his/her license, because it's decided on a case by case by each state. But it is most certainly possible.

On another theme, I have problems with being expected to treat a convicted felon the same as anyone else if they have "paid their debt to society," given recidivism rates.

Jail (or other) time is simply a legal convention. It has nothing to do with whether anyone has paid their debt to society. That would have to involve making amends for their wrongs. And even that does not mean anyone should treat them the same as someone who did not commit those crimes. It's just consequences. That doesn't preclude forgiveness or mercy or kindness. It's just a part of who you are and people are wise to keep that in consideration.

Serving time does nothing to repay anything - it just serves, at best, to keep unsafe persons off the street and be a deterrent.

nelie
08-18-2009, 12:34 PM
Kim - I don't know who Dante Stallworth is or what he did but uhh I'd say killing someone should mean you can't play either.

Kim_Star060404
08-18-2009, 12:39 PM
Nelie: EXACTLY! Everyone is so blown-up about the Vick thing, that the Stallworth thing is just slipping through the cracks. (I blame the media for this one.)

He was driving early one morning with a confirmed BAL above the legal limit and hit a pedestrian who died as a result. He plays for the Cleveland Browns. And his name is Donte, not Dante, as I've been typing. Sorry about that.

nikaylabramwell
08-18-2009, 12:40 PM
deffentally not,i compete in dog shows with my dogg,there are some days where you feel like flipping out and loosing your cool,but they need to be treated the same as us.....im not a big fan of pit bulls but there still a living thing and you need to respect every living thinggg....i never watch micael and i never will

nitenurse
08-18-2009, 12:48 PM
donte stallworth is allowed to play football after serving 24 days in jail after he got drunk and murdered at man.. so vick should be able to play to.

nelie
08-18-2009, 12:55 PM
donte stallworth is allowed to play football after serving 24 days in jail after he got drunk and murdered at man.. so vick should be able to play to.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

nelie
08-18-2009, 12:57 PM
Kim - To be fair, I haven't really had much media exposure. I have been paying attention to what the ASPCA, Best Friends (which is the national shelter that took in the abused pit bulls) and HSUS have been saying.

babenwaiting
08-18-2009, 12:59 PM
Neither Stallworth or Vick should play in the NFL ever again. These athletes are role models for kids, however they become such and WHETHER they should be or not.

Even though Stallworth drove drunk, and killed someone, which is utterly HORRIBLE (and he should have done MUCH LONGER jail time), he did not intentionally kill someone. Michael Vick intentionally killed dogs for five years, and derived pleasure from it. In my book, that's worse! :mad:

Kim_Star060404
08-18-2009, 01:29 PM
Neither Stallworth or Vick should play in the NFL ever again. These athletes are role models for kids, however they become such and WHETHER they should be or not.

Here's the big question, though. Why? Why are they role models and why are we holding them to higher standards than the rest of the world? Would you feel the same way if Vick was just a doorman at a hotel that loved his job? Why is it SUCH a big deal that they are football players?

When I was a kid, I looked up to the garbage men, that's right, the garbage men. They were good, hard-working men and always waved hello, never missed a route and etc. I also looked up to David Robinson but not Dennis Rodman. That's because my parents taught me that it was important to look up to someone with integrity, honesty, compassion, loyalty, faithfulness and etc. Athletes shouldn't be role models to our kids just because they're athletes, but that seems to be the message I'm hearing. If a child idolizes a criminal just because he can throw a football, I think that is the parent's fault for not teaching that child that good values should be what determines who our role models should be.

Matilda08
08-18-2009, 01:45 PM
I dont really watch football that much only during the playoffs and I would watch him play because he paid his debt to society and who am I to judge and not forgive someone for something that they did. Everyone makes mistakes and wrong is wrong no sin is bigger than the other so if god can forgive you and me why cant we forgive another human being. If you dont want to watch him play that is a personal choice but I think its wrong to judge or state how sorry a person is or isnt. Everyone handles emotions differently and even though I am kind and loving to animals there are lots of people that disagree. Every human isnt animal lovers heck many celebs wear furs of all kinds and even though they didnt actually kill the animal buy wearing furs they are supportting animal cruelty if you ask me. And Im sure many people still support them

Matilda08
08-18-2009, 01:48 PM
Here's the big question, though. Why? Why are they role models and why are we holding them to higher standards than the rest of the world? Would you feel the same way if Vick was just a doorman at a hotel that loved his job? Why is it SUCH a big deal that they are football players?

When I was a kid, I looked up to the garbage men, that's right, the garbage men. They were good, hard-working men and always waved hello, never missed a route and etc. I also looked up to David Robinson but not Dennis Rodman. That's because my parents taught me that it was important to look up to someone with integrity, honesty, compassion, loyalty, faithfulness and etc. Athletes shouldn't be role models to our kids just because they're athletes, but that seems to be the message I'm hearing. If a child idolizes a criminal just because he can throw a football, I think that is the parent's fault for not teaching that child that good values should be what determines who our role models should be.



I agree!!!

babenwaiting
08-18-2009, 02:06 PM
kim, you are entitled to your opinion as to who should be role models but as I said above, whether star athletes SHOULD be role models or not doesn't matter because they ARE, period. Children hero-worship them, no matter what a parent says. It is what it is! We aren't going to change that.

Matilda, you said, "Everyone makes mistakes and wrong is wrong no sin is bigger than the other so if god can forgive you and me why cant we forgive another human being."

I beg to disagree, by a long shot! Some sins are certainly bigger than others, and if there's a god, I don't think ANYONE can speak to what he forgives and what he doesn't.

Michael Vick was never sorry until he got caught. I don't waste any tears on people like him.

tikanique
08-18-2009, 02:20 PM
It is each person's opinion whether or not they believe Vick feels remorse. I believe he does; others believe he doesn't and that's okay. At this point I don't think I can sway anyone's mindset anymore than anybody can sway mine. Bottom line it's my sincere hope that the Titans win the Super Bowl.

Kim_Star060404
08-18-2009, 02:24 PM
It is each person's opinion whether or not they believe Vick feels remorse. I believe he does; others believe he doesn't and that's okay. At this point I don't think I can sway anyone's mindset anymore than anybody can sway mine. Bottom line it's my sincere hope that the Titans win the Super Bowl.

I agree, except with the Titans comment. Cowboys all the way!! (I know, I know. It's a long shot!)

Kim_Star060404
08-18-2009, 02:30 PM
kim, you are entitled to your opinion as to who should be role models but as I said above, whether star athletes SHOULD be role models or not doesn't matter because they ARE, period. Children hero-worship them, no matter what a parent says. It is what it is! We aren't going to change that.



I respectfully disagree. A parent's influence and guidance can change the world. I grew up idolizing athletes from just about every sport and not one of them has spent a day in jail, has been accused of unfaithfulness to their spouse or been shown to even display a hint of unsportsmanlike conduct on the playing field. It's all about what we're taught. Also, kids tend to emulate their parents, so if dad cheers for the guy throwing the first punch on the baseball diamond, his children are likely to idolize that unsportsmanlike conduct as well. A child will idolize what he/she is taught to idolize. If all a parent is concerned with is if the person is the best athlete, then the child will likely find the same quality all that is required of a role model. If the parent is concerned with a person being a good person in addition to or instead of being a good athlete (and this could apply to any profession), then the child will likely react in kind.

babenwaiting
08-18-2009, 02:33 PM
STAND BACK, EVERYBODY! THE CAROLINA PANTHERS ARE GOING TO ROCK IT ALL THIS YEAR!!!

:D :D :D

tikanique
08-18-2009, 02:36 PM
How about a thread on whether or not Brett Favre should be allowed to play? I can NOT believe he is about to sign with the Vikings. And they say women can't make up their minds!!! GEEEZZZZ!!!!

babenwaiting
08-18-2009, 02:36 PM
Kim, believe me ... if the majority of parents could influence their children the way you say they do (and I sure WISH they did!), it would be a different world. But we're not dealing with wishful thinking here; we're talking about the real world that we experience everyday.

Yes, we do disagree. Have a good day!

Kim_Star060404
08-18-2009, 02:41 PM
Cowboys vs. Panthers -- Sep. 28!!!

Actually, the Panthers are our #2 team-to-watch. DH was really pulling for them against the Cardinals last year.

Kim_Star060404
08-18-2009, 02:42 PM
How about a thread on whether or not Brett Favre should be allowed to play? I can NOT believe he is about to sign with the Vikings. And they say women can't make up their minds!!! GEEEZZZZ!!!!

I wish that guy would just lay down and quit already. Talk about ruining a legacy!!

babenwaiting
08-18-2009, 02:58 PM
I just caught the news on Favre ... I can't believe this guy! :o Can you imagine being married to him??? NOT!

Kim, yes, I'm looking forward to that Cowboys-Panthers matchup. NOBODY in Carolina could believe that game with the Cardinals. Jakie better not do that to us ever again! :mad:

TXJess
08-18-2009, 03:03 PM
My husband and I were discussing this topic over the weekend. (Not that I care much about football. I'm a total baseball girl. GO RANGERS!!!!)

One reason I feel Michael Vick was accepted back in to the NFL was because Tony Dungy is now his mentor. Regardless of whether or not Dungy has any association with the NFL, the fact is he has always been a very upstanding Christian and it speaks volumes for a person like that to be on your side. I don't think Dungy would have backed Vick unless he firmly believed he had change. And people DO and CAN change. So I do believe people get 2nd chances, however if you blow that, you're pretty much sunk in my book. You can forgive without forgetting.

I agree with the comments above that he should not be banned from life because his actions did not affect the sport in which he participated unlike Pete Rose or the Black Sox Scandal in 1919 or 1920 (I forget).

I do disagree with the above comment that parents cannot affect their children enough to alter their role models. Some children, yes, are very stubborn, but most DO look up to their parents and their parents advice and views on life. It's about mutual respect in my opinion.

The sad part here is Michael Vick served more time in jail than many sex offenders. Many child molesters and rapists spend far less time in jail or none at all (i.e. probation or house arrest only).

I love dogs, I have two currently and I grew up with one that I cried when she died. However, I will always put human life above that of an animal, so for Vick to have a longer sentence than Donte or even rapists is disturbing to me. I am not saying what he did was right in any way.

Just my opinion. You're free to agree or disagree as you see fit (though it definitely won't change my mind ;) )

Matilda08
08-18-2009, 04:02 PM
kim, you are entitled to your opinion as to who should be role models but as I said above, whether star athletes SHOULD be role models or not doesn't matter because they ARE, period. Children hero-worship them, no matter what a parent says. It is what it is! We aren't going to change that.

Matilda, you said, "Everyone makes mistakes and wrong is wrong no sin is bigger than the other so if god can forgive you and me why cant we forgive another human being."

I beg to disagree, by a long shot! Some sins are certainly bigger than others, and if there's a god, I don't think ANYONE can speak to what he forgives and what he doesn't.

Michael Vick was never sorry until he got caught. I don't waste any tears on people like him.

Then you can disagree in my eyes wrong is wrong who are we to place how wrong or right something is and at the end of the day its just how WE personally feel. Everyone has their own views just like YOU feel that what he did was wrong there are many people that could care less and feel that since dogs arent human what is the big deal. I dont feel that way but its just reality. THe bottom line is that he is playing we cant change it. If you choose not to watch him thats a personal choice but just like another poster said he has done more time then folks that have committed crimes against human beings an thats not being made a huge deal.

Forgiveness is not something we do for others, we do it for ourselves so that we can move on!

nelie
08-18-2009, 04:18 PM
If he is truly sorry, then I do forgive him. I don't think forgiveness means though that he has all the privileges that he had prior to being caught. I think being a sports figure is a privilege and with that it comes responsibilities and consequences. Of course, it is what I believe but if the NFL believes differently than it doesn't matter what I believe.

I honestly wish him the best in his personal life and hope that he has come out as a better person for it even if he has caused lots of pain and suffering.

ANOther
08-18-2009, 04:58 PM
I wish that guy would just lay down and quit already. Talk about ruining a legacy!!

Yeah, how come the Vikings always get the legends when they're at the *end* of their useful football-playing lives? We had Warren Moon about 10 years ago, wrung a couple of decent seasons out of him before he hung up the shoulder pads. How old is Favre, 41, 42?

kiahna23
08-18-2009, 05:26 PM
KIAHNA23, but he WAS there ... a great deal of the time, and PARTICIPATING!!! He behaved in a sub-human manner for FIVE YEARS!!! He's doing a good performance right now of someone who's sorry ... maybe he needs an Academy Award instead of a football! Completely, totally revolting ... he belongs in a garbage can! :mad::mad::mad:

Well If we always thought everyone isnt sorry and didnt believe them just because humans expect perfection we could never grow...Thats whats wrong with humans today....we dont forgive eachother enough....I am NOT GOD so I cant say "I forgive him" anyway...If GOD doesnt believe him then he would deal with it...

kiahna23
08-18-2009, 05:30 PM
Right, but WE'RE the ones who put them on the pedestals!! I do not admire somebody because they are an athlete, I admire them because they are an athlete and make the right choices. If a child idolizes Dante Stallworth just because he is a football player, it's the parents job to set the record straight and explain why Stallworth isn't someone we should look up to, NOT STALLWORTH'S job!!! If we, as a society, say that all football players need to go into it thinking "now I have to be a role model", then that's society's problem. It's unrealistic and unfair. That's like saying that all lawyers, politicians, doctors, actors, dancers or anyone else who does any job EVER should be a good role model. We're the ones that decide who is in the public eye. A football player's job is to be a good football player. Bottom line, that's all there is. If a doctor screws up in his personal life, isn't a board who decides whether he gets to keep his license? Same with the NFL, the commissioner makes the decision. Not you, not me.

And I agree with EZ, his job is his job. Any other human being who has served his time, according to the law, should get the chance to go back to their job unless their job puts them into contact with potential victims. I'm sad and angry about what happened and what Vick was involved in, but I'm not going to deny him the second chance I would grant any other member of society just because he makes lots of money. We are such a hypocritical society it makes me want to puke.

I agree with you...Its societies fault tht they fall for the cliche that "you are famous so you are a role model"....My kids watch hanna montana but what people consider is wrong with her they dont know because I dont allow them to. They are 8 and 6 and have NO internet access and restricted TV access...I just think as parents we should stop blaming others for our kids faults..I notice that alot...."I blame that rap music!"..lol...yea right...whos allowing there kids to listen to it? They cant just hear it in the air...

kiahna23
08-18-2009, 05:35 PM
Here's the big question, though. Why? Why are they role models and why are we holding them to higher standards than the rest of the world? Would you feel the same way if Vick was just a doorman at a hotel that loved his job? Why is it SUCH a big deal that they are football players?

When I was a kid, I looked up to the garbage men, that's right, the garbage men. They were good, hard-working men and always waved hello, never missed a route and etc. I also looked up to David Robinson but not Dennis Rodman. That's because my parents taught me that it was important to look up to someone with integrity, honesty, compassion, loyalty, faithfulness and etc. Athletes shouldn't be role models to our kids just because they're athletes, but that seems to be the message I'm hearing. If a child idolizes a criminal just because he can throw a football, I think that is the parent's fault for not teaching that child that good values should be what determines who our role models should be.

you make good points! Society and their own conformity to the world is the problem...A person could have a drug addict dad and then what? The people closest to them are usually the reason why kids do what they do...Parents just dont want to accept that they are responsible for alot of their kids problems.....For ignoring them and sweeping them under the rug (the problems not the kids)....

kiahna23
08-18-2009, 05:37 PM
kim, you are entitled to your opinion as to who should be role models but as I said above, whether star athletes SHOULD be role models or not doesn't matter because they ARE, period. Children hero-worship them, no matter what a parent says. It is what it is! We aren't going to change that.

Matilda, you said, "Everyone makes mistakes and wrong is wrong no sin is bigger than the other so if god can forgive you and me why cant we forgive another human being."

I beg to disagree, by a long shot! Some sins are certainly bigger than others, and if there's a god, I don't think ANYONE can speak to what he forgives and what he doesn't.

Michael Vick was never sorry until he got caught. I don't waste any tears on people like him.

Matilda is basing her facts on what it actually says in the bible..It doesnt say one sin is bigger...that just opinions and interpretations...Take the bible for what it is...

EZMONEY
08-19-2009, 12:00 AM
I really have nothing to say since KIM has said it all for me!

I will add that any sin separates us from God. We, as people make some sin bigger than others and place heavier consequences on it.

Keep in mind that there are many people out there that find nothing wrong in "dog fights" or "people fights" as in ultimate fighting.

I really have to add again that I think it is unfair, for any athlete, to expect them to be role models. I grew up with a couple of "major league" players and so has my son...for the most part I would not want my kids to view them as role models.

techwife
08-19-2009, 08:22 AM
In any other profession, if you have a criminal record, its extremely hard to find a job because nobody wants to employ a criminal. The same standard should be set for athletes of ALL sports. Celebrities, too, for that matter. These people are the reason I don't really enjoy watching football anymore. The league has been taken over by criminals and thugs and the league continues to pay them millions when there are LOADS of talented athletes out there just waiting for a chance. I would love to see a standard put into the NFL, NHL, Baseball, Basketball, etc that if you are ever convicted of a felony or higher, you are done in the league. Period. If they want to be paid millions of dollars to PLAY A GAME, then they should exhibit better control in their personal lives. They are too much public figures and role models for our kids, whether you like it or not, they are very influential on kids that need positive people to look up to.

Forgive him? Sure...if he's truly sorry, which I doubt. I'll be patiently waiting for hockey season to start and will only be watching football when there's nothing else more exciting to do...like clean my kitchen or sweep the garage floor. I know hockey players aren't all perfect, but its not overrun with thugs, either.

I used to be a feverish Bills fan. I just don't care anymore because the people make me sick.

I know a lot of you are very forgiving and I am too, but not to the extent of letting these guys get right back in the saddle as if nothing ever happened. If we tried to get a job with the background that Vick has, we'd be lucky to get in flipping burgers in a fast food joint. Its amazing how quickly we forget when it comes to big money and our team winning.

tikanique
08-19-2009, 09:17 AM
One point you made Tech is an indication of a problem in our society - convicted felons can not get work. I worked for a company that interviewed and really liked this guy. He had two degrees, solid work record. However, he made a mistake, and along with his wife stole 10K from a company. That was 15 years ago. We could not hire him and I felt bad for him. If you have a felon on your record, you end up not being able to hold a job that can support yourself, let alone your family and this leads in many cases to people becoming repeat offenders. Just because you were once convicted does not make you a criminal for life, just like if you once told a lie, it does not make you a liar for life.

Oh well. GO TITANS!!!!!

babenwaiting
08-19-2009, 09:47 AM
One point you made Tech is an indication of a problem in our society - convicted felons can not get work. I worked for a company that interviewed and really liked this guy. He had two degrees, solid work record. However, he made a mistake, and along with his wife stole 10K from a company. That was 15 years ago. We could not hire him and I felt bad for him. If you have a felon on your record, you end up not being able to hold a job that can support yourself, let alone your family and this leads in many cases to people becoming repeat offenders. Just because you were once convicted does not make you a criminal for life, just like if you once told a lie, it does not make you a liar for life.

I would not hire someone who had stolen from his previous company. He should have thought of the consequences before he committed a crime. I wouldn't take a chance on someone like that when there's so many other people who've never done anything wrong who need a job. Do you know the misery and aggravation a company goes through when someone steals from them like that? I know it's tough on people who truly learn their lesson and want to go straight ... but others should learn from the experience of these people. :(

Actually, I'm a very forgiving person toward people for the most part, except when it comes to rapists, child molesters and ....... people who harm animals intentionally in any way! :mad: I find some things unforgiveable (and no, I would not expect to be forgiven if I or anyone I loved, did any of those things!)

Techwife, your points are well-made. So many pro athletes seem to feel that they don't need to answer to anyone ... I, too, think they should be out of their sports if they commit a felony! (And doesn't the NHL look like the Boy Scouts of America when you stack them up against the NFL and the NBA? I know there's a problem here and there but a fraction of the others ... And nice to see you back! :) )

Matilda08
08-19-2009, 10:43 AM
I would not hire someone who had stolen from his previous company. He should have thought of the consequences before he committed a crime. I wouldn't take a chance on someone like that when there's so many other people who've never done anything wrong who need a job. Do you know the misery and aggravation a company goes through when someone steals from them like that? I know it's tough on people who truly learn their lesson and want to go straight ... but others should learn from the experience of these people. :(

Actually, I'm a very forgiving person toward people for the most part, except when it comes to rapists, child molesters and ....... people who harm animals intentionally in any way! :mad: I find some things unforgiveable (and no, I would not expect to be forgiven if I or anyone I loved, did any of those things!)

Techwife, your points are well-made. So many pro athletes seem to feel that they don't need to answer to anyone ... I, too, think they should be out of their sports if they commit a felony! (And doesn't the NHL look like the Boy Scouts of America when you stack them up against the NFL and the NBA? I know there's a problem here and there but a fraction of the others ... And nice to see you back! :) )

Just because a person hasnt been caught and doesnt have a criminal record doesnt mean that they havent committed any crimes. Some of the best criminals have NEVER been caught.

And like another poster said there are many people who feel that what vick did wasnt wrong. It soley depends on the person that you ask everyone has different views

I dont look at these football players and these atheletes any different then I look at the next person. I dont put them on pedistools because just like me and you they all make mistakes. Let the higher power be the judge.

tikanique
08-19-2009, 10:50 AM
Babe, I think it depends on the circumstances. If he had just stolen from the last employer then yeah, he'd be a no go. In this instance, the theft occurred 15 years ago. The guy has since then gone on to achieve two degrees and done work for other businesses with no blemish on his record. However, he wanted to move from small mom and pop shops to a corporate level. He would have been a great fit except for that one mistake LONG AGO that still keeps him from realizing his true potential today.

babenwaiting
08-19-2009, 11:21 AM
Just because a person hasnt been caught and doesnt have a criminal record doesnt mean that they havent committed any crimes. Some of the best criminals have NEVER been caught.

And like another poster said there are many people who feel that what vick did wasnt wrong. It soley depends on the person that you ask everyone has different views

I dont look at these football players and these atheletes any different then I look at the next person. I dont put them on pedistools because just like me and you they all make mistakes. Let the higher power be the judge.

Yes, Matilda, some of the best criminals are never caught; there's nothing you can do about them. But you can certainly do something about the rest! As for the people who are just as sick/evil as Vick in thinking he did nothing wrong, that's a pathetic bunch of people! And people do judge people in this life ... otherwise, you'd have no rules and complete chaos.

We disagree ... have a good day.

tikanique
08-19-2009, 11:54 AM
Does committing a crime once make you a criminal for life?

ANOther
08-19-2009, 12:09 PM
Yeah, how come the Vikings always get the legends when they're at the *end* of their useful football-playing lives? We had Warren Moon about 10 years ago, wrung a couple of decent seasons out of him before he hung up the shoulder pads. How old is Favre, 41, 42?

He's 39. I told you I wasn't much of a football nut

Matilda08
08-19-2009, 02:07 PM
Does committing a crime once make you a criminal for life?


My point exactly!

Matilda08
08-19-2009, 02:15 PM
Yes, Matilda, some of the best criminals are never caught; there's nothing you can do about them. But you can certainly do something about the rest! As for the people who are just as sick/evil as Vick in thinking he did nothing wrong, that's a pathetic bunch of people! And people do judge people in this life ... otherwise, you'd have no rules and complete chaos.

We disagree ... have a good day.




"As for the people who are just as sick/evil as Vick in thinking he did nothing wrong, that's a pathetic bunch of people!"

Again this is how you feel. Its not really that I totally disagree I see where you're coming from just playing devils advocate because people seem to look at things one sided. People can judge all they want but it does no good the guy is playing.

kiahna23
08-19-2009, 02:28 PM
I really have nothing to say since KIM has said it all for me!

I will add that any sin separates us from God. We, as people make some sin bigger than others and place heavier consequences on it.

Keep in mind that there are many people out there that find nothing wrong in "dog fights" or "people fights" as in ultimate fighting.

I really have to add again that I think it is unfair, for any athlete, to expect them to be role models. I grew up with a couple of "major league" players and so has my son...for the most part I would not want my kids to view them as role models.

I agree...

nelie
08-21-2009, 09:50 AM
I'm not I was able to exactly express my feelings correctly but I have to say that the ASPCA did it for me. Apparently the Vick press team went to the ASPCA first and the ASPCA was involved in the Vick's trial.

Of course you may not agree and you may think forgiveness means 'business as usual'.

If you care to read the views of the ASPCA, they have put them out there and I think it is worth reading.
http://www.aspca.org/blog/ed-sayres-the-road-ahead-for.html