Weight Loss Support - When exercise and diet does not work....




harrismm
07-27-2009, 07:12 PM
Here is a question that I would appreciate any feedback on(agree or disagree), both are fine with me.
I often hear people say, "I quit (fill in the bland) diet because it did not work". or "I had WLS because dieting does not work for me".
Now, I have said this many times over my life as well.After doing much thinking as to why I am still not at my weight loss goal, I realized that I am the queen of excuses.
So...........since when does diet and exercise not work?IT DOES!!!Its not the diet and exercise, its not following the diet and exercise.Right????


seagirl
07-27-2009, 07:13 PM
I think it works if you work it. And if you find a plan that is sustainable.

p7eggyc
07-27-2009, 07:16 PM
I think that is probably true for 99% of us. I'm sure there are some medical reasons that make it nearly impossible to pull weight off with simple food/exercise changes but probably only in very rare cases. It's really all about finding something to do day in and day out but while it is a simple enough formula, it's certainly not easy.

Peg


JulieJ08
07-27-2009, 07:22 PM
I think most plans do work if you stick to them. But some are ever so much easier to stick with - and that's different for everyone. And people ofter really overestimate how faithful they are.

harrismm
07-27-2009, 07:25 PM
Julie-I totally agree.I have been able to reflect on my diet failures most recently.And I have been accountable for everyone of them.It was never the diet, it was always ME not following the diet.
Thanks.

mandalinn82
07-27-2009, 07:29 PM
I'd say it almost ALWAYS works...eventually.

I think that sometimes, the amount our bodies burn in a day (the "out" part of the calories in/calories out equation) drops, for any number of reasons (stress and resultant high cortisol levels, hormonal changes, muscular changes, injuries, etc). When that happens, it CAN push you into a "plateau" that has nothing to do with what YOU are doing, and everything to do with what your body is doing. Luckily, when that happens, if you just PUSH THROUGH and stick on plan, my experience is that eventually you DO start moving down again.

But I don't know that every time that one plateaus, it's entirely due to not being on plan. That just isn't my personal experience (and I tend toward the "of COURSE you're doing something wrong" mentality, and when I did stall out, I spent a lot of time being super strict and measuring everything more strictly than when I was losing weight, and still didn't lose).

kaplods
07-27-2009, 07:46 PM
I don't think that it is always "an excuse," or even a phrase necessarily meant to be taken literally.

I think the phrase, "that doesn't work for me," is often used as a shorthand for "that doesn't suit my preferences, personality, and lifestyle," such as when someone asks if we'd like to go have lunch with them and we say "Tuesday doesn't work for me, I've got a dental appointment."

I think sustainability is also an important part of the equation, but it can be difficult to know what sustainability means until the attempt is made.

I often, in the past thought that low-carb diets weren't reasonable or sustainable for me, for a host of reasons (I'd also never tried moderately low carb diets, only extremely low carb ones, and not for very long, because they were difficult to adhere to faithfully.)

However, not all that long ago I learned that high carb (even if only "good carb") diets tend to drastically increase hunger, while very low carb diets drastically reduces my appetite, but also increases unpleasant symptoms such as headaches, nausea, and dizziness. Finding a WOE that provides the ideal compromise has been difficult.

In theory, a low-calorie high carb diet should "work" because I don't have to respond to hunger with eating, but in practice I find it easier to stick to a low calorie diet if I keep hunger in check.

I think often "doesn't work as I expected it to," is the real issue. I've abandoned so many weight loss attempts, not because I wasn't making progress, but because I didn't feel the progress was "good enough" (translation worth the effort).

It's almost sacrilege to say (at least out loud) that a weight loss effort "isn't worth the effort," but it's even less acceptable to decide to respond by putting in less effort. Many people are taught to diet by either being "on" or "off" the diet. Creating a lifestyle of compromises, or deciding that there is not only 100% success or 100% failure in regard to weight loss are not the commonly acceptable options.

I believe that people have many more options than they often consider, because thinking "outside the box," of our culture is often more difficult than we realize. I think that so many of our cultural ideas about weight loss are so ingrained, that "unlearning them" is often more difficult than we realize.

I'm not dismissing the role of personal responsibility, but I think it's easy to
underestimate the difficulty in physiological, and psychological and social factors that make the process challenging.

Knowledge is power, and understanding the challenges really is half the battle.

harrismm
07-27-2009, 09:10 PM
Kaplods-I agree with you
I am just saying personally for me I have used it as an excuse.In the past I have been very successful with WW.....then fell off the wagon.How?Buy eating more points than I was allowed.DUH! Right?Of course I would gain weight back.What I missed was, WW DOES work.But, only if you follow it.
What made me ask myself this was watching a commercial for a diet pill.It said this might be for you if diet and exercise has not worked.And I thought...hummmmm...when does it NOT work??Only when you do not follow the rules of whatever plan you are on.
Im trying to be more accountable for my past failures.

Aclai4067
07-27-2009, 09:19 PM
I have to say, keeping a food journal has made a huge difference to me. I've always done it in the beginning and then slacked off but I'm keeping it up this time. And it's a great aid when you're diet is "not working." For example, I've been feeling like my points just don't go as far as they used to. So today I sat down and reviewed my journal. I realized that my soda consumption has really crept up on me. I've been wasting up to 10 points a day on drinks! Ugh, so not worth it. I :val1: water!

harrismm
07-27-2009, 10:27 PM
You are right on !!!I restarted my journal 3 days ago.Made a contract with myself to write everything down.....good, bad or EVIL!

rockinrobin
07-27-2009, 10:47 PM
I think it works if you work it. And if you find a plan that is sustainable.

It works if you work it and continue to work it. And when you find/seek out/discover a plan that you are willing to work, you are then willing to sustain it.

It's funny, in the past, the few people that I knew who had lost any weight, I would ask them, "how'd you lose the weight?". As if it was some secret. What would have been a more telling question - "What made you decide to lose the weight?

kiramira
07-27-2009, 10:58 PM
I just don't get it -- if you have to follow a super-restrictive diet and exercise post-WLS, why not follow the super-restrictive diet and exercise program and avoid the surgery?

I can't wrap my mind around this.

I was offered WLS when my BMI was almost at 40. After researching it, it seemed to me that the principles of WLS was to reduce the physical size of your stomach and to reduce the length of intestine available for calorie absorption. And because of these factors, you needed to follow a restrictive diet, make sure that your induced malabsorption didn't kill you, and exercise. And that it was only a tool, not a "cure", which means that you would regain the weight if you didn't follow the program. (Talk to Roseanne, and to Ron from TBL last season...). So it if comes down to the mindset or the "head space" so to speak, why not address that at the same time as the dietary restrictions, and avoid the surgery?

I still can't wrap my head around it, and it concerns me that those who have had it seem to think that this line of questioning is "not validating their experience" or is judgemental. Because it isn't! I think we NEED to consider these questions BEFORE our guts are permanently rewired. And everyone has a different path, but WHY is this path appealing for some, if the work is the same in the end re: dietary restriction and exercise, but has huge sequella?

Kira

harrismm
07-28-2009, 12:06 AM
You hit the nail on the head!!!That is exactly my question!!!

DCHound
07-28-2009, 12:30 AM
Everything doesn't work for everyone...personally I gained on WW, because it is way too carb-intensive for me. I am one of those folks who is basically allergic/addicted to carbs...can't have them - well, specifically, can't have starch or sugar, veggie carbs in very limited doses. But I do think most diets will work for most people if they have the wherewithal to follow them religiously.

TJFitnessDiva
07-28-2009, 12:56 AM
I personally think people (esp women) are way too impatient and 99% of the time what did work and doesn't anymore is because they aren't true to whatever plan they are on because of the slow (to them) results. Low fat or low carb.

I know there are people out there that have medical conditions that make it very hard for them to lose weight....but that is a valid reason.

kaplods
07-28-2009, 02:31 AM
We choose strategies every day that make the choice we want to make easier. While wls works by food restriction, and reducing the absorption of nutrition, the surgery forces the desired behavior (at least at first). Physical illness is a fairly good deterrent.

Alcoholics can choose to take anabuse, a drug that doesn't prevent alcoholics from drinking, but makes them physically ill if they do so.

I see wls much the same way. It makes sense in the same way that saving money by automatic withdrawal makes sense. By making the desired behavior more convenient or the consequences for the undesired behavior more severe, increases the odds of successful behavior change. Now whether it's worth the consequences or not, is a very different and very personal decision.

Hunger and appetite has been a very big issue for me. While the behavior (calorie restriction) is not dependent on hunger/appetite, reducing appetite makes calorie restriction easier and more comfortable. Sure "mind over matter" success is possible, but why white-knuckle it if you don't have to?

WLS is not the only means to hunger/appetite reduction, but it does take the choice (at least initially) out of the individual's hands. It's like putting your money into a CD or freezing your credit cards in a tub of water. By making the desired behavior easier, and the undesired behavior more inconvenient - you've got a stronger tool than simply the desire for change.

Yes, exercise and diet almost always work (even if there are physiological conditions that make it more difficult), but short-term changes are easier than long-term changes for a host of reasons. Finding ways to make the long-term commitment as strong as short-term ones often requires more than just desire and will. It's a matter of many little efforts (and tools to make those efforts easier and/or more affective) adding up.

rockinrobin
07-28-2009, 06:55 AM
Finding ways to make the long-term commitment as strong as short-term ones often requires more than just desire and will.

I really do think it IS a matter of willingness. You get out of something what you put into it. When you are willing to do "it", you FIND the way to make it work. You accept no excuses. And that willingness helps you to find/develop your "tools". Having those tools though are not enough. You have to be willing to use them. Knowing is not enough - we need to apply. And keep on applying.

JayEll
07-28-2009, 08:20 AM
The problem I see with WLS is the same problem I have with a lot of modern medicine, namely, drs. see an abnormal state, such as obesity or high cholesterol, and they "solve" it by altering the body's normal function, such as food absorption in the digestive system with surgery, and cholesterol production in the liver with statin drugs. The same could be said for Fosamax. No one ever has proven that obese people abnormally absorb nutrients, or that people with high cholesterol make an abnormal amount of cholesterol, with the exception of people with familial hypercholesterolemia.

And I'm with those who say, if you're going to have to restrict diet and exercise anyway, why not do that? Besides, many people have found a way to "eat around" their lapband and end up obese all over again.

Also, if you ask a surgeon what the best approach to anything is, the answer will be surgery. It's what they do.

Jay

Heather
07-28-2009, 09:50 AM
For most of us, the consequences of WLS are not worth the benefits. But I do think there are some people for whom weight loss surgery is more of a necessity: people who are super-morbidly obese and at extreme health risk. WLS can often result in faster weight loss, and if it's a matter of lose weight fast or DIE, then I think the equation changes.

dragonwoman64
07-28-2009, 11:52 AM
Interesting thread.

It does sound simple, doesn't it, you know, lower your calories and exercise more. I think that gets said so that people don't get overwhelmed STARTING something.

Some people have an easier time eating a variety of foods, or the same foods (don't need that much variety). Some people are emotional eaters. Some people hate exercise, some people embrace it and find all types of activities that they love doing (or a single activity, or several).

A lot really goes into getting a weight loss plan that works and that can be maintained over a long period of time, a lifetime really. And to my mind it seriously will vary from person to person. I've had to modify/change habits, my tastes, and change the eating plans to fit my tastes. It's not a static process, it's constantly changing for me.

And for me a part of it is accepting that I need to be a responsible adult and do what I need to do make it work, because I feel like I need to lose weight to be a healthy and happier woman.

Yes, I had to give up the notion that I could eat whatever I wanted, in whatever amounts I wanted, whenever I wanted, and part of that was dealing with the emotional side so that I wasn't eating my feelings. I don't believe it has to be a white knuckling situation. It has gotten easier for me as I've gone along, the eating and exercise. I read posts that say forlornly things like "and I think I'll have to do this forever," and I want to say, you may not always look at it that way!

It's a mixed bag, sometimes filled with excuses, sometimes filled with diets that really are not right for certain people, sometimes it's a mix of both, sometimes biology and psychology makes it even messier. So, you figure it out as you go along. :smug:

kiramira
07-28-2009, 12:25 PM
So interesting...I don't think WLS takes anything out of the hands of the person who chooses that path. Because if it DID, it would be 100% effective. And it is no more effective than the traditional way of weight loss. You can "eat your way" through the surgery and gain the weight back. IF you don't follow the strict regimen of diet and exercise. And while one year statistics are good, the following years show that people can't stick with the regime and return to their previous way of eating...and lord knows, there are been MULTIPLE medications developed to remove the "hunger" aspect --fiber tabs that expand to make you feel full, phen/fen that addressed both hunger AND metabolism, SSRIs to try to "boost" seritonin levels in the brain to make you feel satisfied without eating, amphetimines that kill appetite and boost metabolism, and NOTHING has worked in the long run. So why would WLS be any different?

And what really knocked my socks off is the story of the surgeon who performed WLS on an 85 year old man, who died from its complications (see the WLS forum for this story)...85 years old! Now, of course I don't know the particulars of this case, but it just doesn't sound right at all. 85 years old! Complications of surgery seriously outweigh ANY benefits in the long term, IMHO. Makes absolutely no sense, unless you look at it from a profit perspective...

Also, I just have to say this in defense of WW -- WW is as carb-intense as you make it. I can be a low-carber on WW just as easily as a high carber, because you get to CHOOSE how you want to eat. Just for the record...it isn't the diet that fails, it is the choices one makes. A dear friend of mine LAUGHED when I said I was on WW and said she gained 30 lbs on the program. All I can say is that she clearly didn't follow the program, because the FUNDAMENTAL prinicple of the program is calorie restriction. And it is HARD to NOT be successful with any calorie restriction diet UNLESS you aren't compliant. After all, you can be noncompliant with WLS calorie restriction parameters and gain weight. You can be a calorie counter, not count the calories and gain weight...

I still would LOVE to hear from WLS guys to understand HOW they arrived at their decision, without being accused of being intolerant, judgemental, and uneducated...

Kira

mandalinn82
07-28-2009, 02:16 PM
No one who has had weight loss surgery has any obligation to explain their reasoning to anyone, especially as this debate has come up many times before and invariably turns to judgement. But I'll (as a non WLS patient) give a few reasons.

First, as Heather mentioned, sometimes its a "lose weight fast or die" situation, either because of some immediate health risk, or because a different critical procedure cannot be performed without weight loss occurring first (this was the situation an uncle of mine was in - he needed a medical procedure that was impossible at his weight, and due to the urgency of the procedure, was counseled by his physician to consider WLS to get to a weight where he could get the treatment he needed.

Second, physicians are recommending WLS, sometimes strongly, to patients who have comorbid conditions like Type 2 diabetes or hyperlipidemia. That's because, long-term, people who have the surgery are more likely to resolve those issues than people who do not. This may be in part because the WLS is a tool to help in weight loss, but also is a property of the surgery itself. Duodenal Switch surgery, for example, involves a change to the digestive structure such that a very high percentage of patients are able to stop diabetes medication before they even leave the hospital (before weight loss has presumably taken place). The surgery is more than a weight loss tool - it's a tool that, in and of itself, without weight loss, can help manage or treat medical conditions. In this case, the patient's doctor (who has access to their entire medical record) has decided that the health benefits of the surgery are enough to justify the risks.

Third, the insurance system is set up, in a lot of ways, to push toward WLS. Getting coverage for WLS isn't easy, but it's still easier than getting coverage for a Medical Nutrition program (which is only required for coverage in a handful of states, and only covered by Medicare in a few very specific conditions). So if you're looking for a medical intervention to help you lose weight, you're likely going to find it not covered.

Deciding weight loss surgery isn't for you - that's fine. Deciding it isn't for anyone, or even implying that, ignores some of the major factors that a doctor and a patient might take into account when opting to use a surgical intervention.

Fat Pants
07-28-2009, 03:33 PM
I think that the majority of the time, exercise and diet do work. I can think of very few reasons (mostly medical) as to why they wouldn't. I also think Robin is right - for most people, it is a matter of willingness.

I can't speak for WLS folks because I've never considered that option and what they've gone through to reach that decision, so I can only speak about my experience.

For me, like Robin alluded, it was a really just a matter of running out of excuses. I had my gallbladder removed 6 years ago and I put on a lot of weight afterward. Mostly because I got lazy. I got depressed. I stopped caring. So when I started to try to lose the 80 lbs I had gained, for me who had only crash-dieted previously (as well as an ED), dieting was new. I failed SO MANY times. I would start, and quit, and start, and quit. And I would be one of those people who would throw my hands up and say "Nothing works for me!" I did WW, Atkins, South Beach, 6WBMO, you name it, I felt like I tried it. I would work out 3x a week and see .5 a lb lost. I FELT like I was doing everything, but after a month at the MOST, I would give up, gain back the few lbs I'd lost, and start over again. Gosh, if I had just stuck with it that first time, I'd have lost the 80 lbs twice by now!

In reality though, I just kept making excuses... I was too tired, too busy, it was too hard. So this year, I just finally stopped making excuses. Having lost 40 lbs so far, it's definitely been worth the hard work. As my husband said to me recently, "It's taken a while to get to this point in your journey, huh?" And he was right -over 2 years of starting, stopping, being successful, failing, etc.

It's just that every time I failed, I learned something new about myself and what worked/what didn't work. Finally, I seem to have gotten things right.

Idealmuse
07-28-2009, 03:58 PM
It makes sense in the same way that saving money by automatic withdrawal makes sense. By making the desired behavior more convenient or the consequences for the undesired behavior more severe, increases the odds of successful behavior change. Now whether it's worth the consequences or not, is a very different and very personal decision.

Kap that's a GREAT way of putting it. I've never heard it explained quite that way...

I believe lots of people give up too easily. If anyone's really had success losing any moderate amount of weight I feel like except for the rare medical condition that we all have the capability of doing it. Even those of us who've been obese all our lives. It's just a longer road for some of us. Sometimes it takes success and failures to learn the lessons we need to learn.

(Edit to add: but I'm not anti-WLS I almost had it myself... I just think it's slightly over used. There are LOTS of cases where it makes perfect sense)

joyinSF
07-28-2009, 04:04 PM
losing weight is hard, but its really worth it in the end. i know i can be impatient at times , too, (ive been exercising relentlessly for a month and half, losing 2 pounds) but on the flip side, i have so much more energy and i feel better.

its easy to give up, but remember, the weight gain didnt happen over night.

Eumie
07-28-2009, 04:10 PM
I don't know if "give up too easily" is a fair assessment. Some people, yeah. "It's four weeks and I haven't lost 20 lbs? I give up!" That's too easy. But there are people who have been on plan for many months, sometimes over a year, who hit a big plateau. They get discouraged, and slowly creep back towards old eating and activity habits. No matter whether you're a "ban diet from your vocab" activist or a "stop sugar coating it--I'm dieting!" activist, it's hard work and the mental effort that is put into it alone can be exhausting. It's the first thing we think about when we get up in the morning and the last thing we think about before we go to bed. And there's a whole lot of thinking that goes on in between.

If we had to think about work that much, how long would we last in that job before we burned out? I think that it's fairer to say that a lot of people burn out than that they give up too easily. But maybe that's me aiding and abetting bad habits. I don't know.

rockinrobin
07-28-2009, 09:43 PM
I believe lots of people give up too easily. If anyone's really had success losing any moderate amount of weight I feel like except for the rare medical condition that we all have the capability of doing it. Even those of us who've been obese all our lives. It's just a longer road for some of us. Sometimes it takes success and failures to learn the lessons we need to learn.


And the willingness to travel that road and stay the course.

I know, I know. I sound like a broken record. But I believe with all my heart, that is what it will always boil down to. WILLINGNESS. :dizzy:

HotWings
07-28-2009, 10:27 PM
I firmly believe as well that you have to commit yourself.. not just be motivated. But this thread has also reminded me of something I just re-read earlier today about why people can't seem to stick to a "diet" or it "doesn't work". It's some bits and pieces from the first chapter of Tom Venuto's ebook.. "Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle":

Obviously you have to exercise and eat the right foods. What Iím suggesting is that if you donít channel your mental energies properly, even the best diet and training program wonít help because you will always ďsabotageĒ yourself. Did you ever wonder why you have lapses and breakdowns in ďwillpower?Ē Or why some days you just canít drag yourself to the gym? Or why you ďfall off the wagonĒ completely? Or why you canít say ďnoĒ to those chocolate chip cookies? Itís because negative programming in your subconscious mind is controlling your behavior.

...

The conscious mind is a lot like the captain at the bridge of a ship. The captain gives a command and sends it down to the engine room. The subconscious mind is like the men down in the engine room. No matter what orders come down from the bridge (conscious mind), the crew obeys, even if the orders are stupid ones that crash the ship into a rocky shore. The reason this happens is because the crew (the subconscious) canít see where the ship is going; they are simply following orders.

...

Because of the way your subconscious works, itís extremely important for you to focus all your thoughts on what you want to achieve, not on what you want to avoid. This is not mere semantics; itís a very important distinction. If I ask you to close your eyes and not to think about monkeys, you'll (mentally) see monkeys everywhere. You can't NOT think about something! You either think about something or you don't. And you always move toward what you think about the most, regardless of whether itís positive or negative.

...

Negative statements and self-defeating questions
I canít lose weight no matter what I do.
Why can't I lose this last ten pounds?
Why is it so hard for me to lose weight?
I have a slow metabolism.
Why can everyone else lose weight except me? Itís not fair.
Itís not my fault because I donít have good genetics.
I don't want to be fat anymore.
I wish I could get rid of this gut.
Itíll never work because I like food too much.
I donít have the willpower to get lean.
I would work out but I donít have time.
I just canít get myself up that early to work out.
I hate being fat.
Iíll never see my abs.
I hate cardio.
I canít.
Iíll try.

...

All day long you carry on a mental conversation with yourself. Psychologists
estimate that we think up to 60,000 thoughts a day and that 98% of these thoughts are the same ones we had yesterday Ė most of them negative.

...

Fortunately, the one thing in life you always have 100% total control over is your thoughts. If you want to be successful in losing body fat or any other endeavor in life, you must master your communication with yourself. You must take charge of your self-talk, ďpolice" your thinking...

Positive statements and empowering questions
How can I lose fat and enjoy the process?
What can I do today that will help me get closer to my weight loss goal?
What can I eat right now at this meal that will help me lose body fat?
How great am I going to feel after I finish my workout today?
My metabolism is getting faster every day.
I am getting leaner every day.
I like the way I look.
I am 100% responsible for my results.
Whatever it takes, Iíll do it.
I like eating healthy foods.
I love working out.
Training early in the morning is exhilarating.
I have time for anything I am committed to.
I like myself.
I can do it.
Iíll do it.


This really hit home for me. I *know* this is why I have not been successful with weight loss in the past. I was constantly sabotaging and defeating myself with negative thinking!!!

Just wanted to toss that in there as to why some people might say dieting does not work for them.

rockinrobin
07-28-2009, 10:50 PM
Whatever it takes, I’ll do it.

Broken record alert: To me that screams : I am willing to do whatever it takes.

I loved that list by the way.

And the second I decided that I WAS willing to do what it takes - that's when my brain switched from the negative to the positive way of thinking.

Windchime
07-28-2009, 10:54 PM
Wow, BingoWings, thanks for sharing that excerpt. That really makes a lot of sense. I might need to go read that book.

kiramira
07-28-2009, 11:04 PM
Ya. And we all have to recognize the following:

We have to do WHAT IT TAKES and NOT what we THINK it will take.

This is a huge distinction, and I hear it all the time from my dear SIL God Love Her...

I don't know WHY I don't lose weight? I eat lots of salad.
Well, you always use tons of full-fat dressing, croutons, bacon bits and cheese on your salad. It isn't about the salad, it's about the other stuff ON your salad that is the issue.

My body doesn't react to exercise. After all, I do a gentle stretching class once a week.
Well, it takes a consistent and serious effort at least 4 times a week to see results.

My body just won't release the fat. I watch what I eat, but I refuse to substitute low-fat for full fat cause I don't like the taste. I want a real block of real cream cheese with my bagel, and I only have one or two a day for lunch.
Well, you gotta control the total amount of calories, and you CAN work in the real stuff but you really have to be aware of your intake.

Drives. Me. Crazy. And I don't argue the points with her (believe it or not :rofl:). I just agree and say "yeah, you are probably right...nothing seems to work for you" as she powers her way through two eggs benedict and sausage on the side for breakfast...

Do what it TAKES, not what you THINK it takes...

Kira

rockinrobin
07-28-2009, 11:26 PM
Well there really may be some people who don't 100% know what it takes. But, when you are ahem, willing to do what is necessary - you then find/seek out/search/discover/educate yourself on what it does *take*.

Kiramira, now granted, I'm not saying your SIL is one of them. ;)

HotWings
07-28-2009, 11:42 PM
Wow, BingoWings, thanks for sharing that excerpt. That really makes a lot of sense. I might need to go read that book.

No problem. That was a real eye-opener.. I guess it just came at the right time. See, I felt like I had armed myself with all of this knowledge.. yet nothing seemed to work because I didn't stay on whatever diet I was doing. So I would try another "diet" .. rinse, repeat... lol

Reading that part was one of my "Well, DUH.. why didn't I see that before?" moments. Had quite a few with that book. :lol: I'm a little embarrassed that it has taken me so many years to finally understand what's going on with me and all this weight. :o

Jacquie668
07-29-2009, 08:04 AM
I think generally this idea, from the original post, is true, but I also know that there are people out there who have trouble loosing weight and some of those reasons are medical. There are not the "typical" exercise and diet issues.

I read a news article last year about a woman who ate a very healthy diet, watched her calories, exercised, was athletic and her body swelled up to above 300 pounds. She was baffled by this and the weight gain happened in a short amount of time and she could not loose the weight. She finally found out what was going on and found she had a brain tumor, which caused her body to overreact and thus she gained weight. There is a name for this specific condition (which escapes me) and I believe it is rare, but my point is that even though generally something is true I do think we have to leave room for those circumstances that are the exception.

I'm giving a rare example, but other examples that are not so rare, PCOS, people on certain medications, hormone imbalances, etc. My point is that no two bodies are 100% the same and there are people who do struggle to loose a pound and sometimes those people simply cannot loose the weight even with a routine of exercise and a healthy diet. So, certain options such as WLS can come into play at that point, but I would assume that if a person is having those kind of issues they would investigate to find a reason and try to work around it, fix it, solve it whatever. Of course there are some things that cannot be solved, I have learned that lesson recently as I have a skin disease that does affect my diet and life and there is no cure and the doctors out there have no idea what to do about it. I'll always have it and for some people with the disease that I have they are unable to walk which means they can't exercise, go to work, etc. So, if ya can't exercise or exercise effectively then you have to find a workaround and they do in most cases, but it is a different kind of struggle for them.

I think options such as WLS are a choice that a individual does reflect on for a time, if their situation allows them to rather, and I think there is a percentage of people who have WLS who need that option because of their personal situation. That is their situation so I'm not going to judge someone who makes that choice. It is their situation, what do I know. I think any surgery has a level of risk and I don't think it makes it easier for those people who elect to have WLC. I mean we ALL struggle in some form or another. If it was so easy then no one would be on this forum...speaking generally. ;)

For me personally, I struggle over physiological things as well as some medical. Mostly my issues are emotionally linked to my past as well as a hormone imbalance (had no idea until this year) and that makes me struggle in certain ways. My willingness is there, I haven't gained back all my weight and i have continued, but I also have gained back portions of my weight and had to loose that again. I really want to do this and today I dragged my butt out of bed at 4:30am to go for my morning walk and I sat in bed making excuses as to why i shouldn't walk, yet I did it and now I'm up and ready to rock. Those are a bit of my struggles and working through it all takes a lot of willingness, but for me it is more of a learning how to love myself, live, and cope. Learning how to move forward and not stay in the past, that is where my will is. Moving forward means getting healthy, moving my big butt (which will always be big that you Mother) and etc.

I think it is fine to speak in terms of general things, but I also think one should consider that there are exceptions out there. So, I agree, but I also leave room for those exceptions.

:carrot:

rockinrobin
07-29-2009, 08:24 AM
I believe the OP alluded to the fact that she wasn't speaking of those with the rare medical issues.......

Jacquie, yes, without a doubt some of us face more obstacles then others. But there is a way AROUND those obstacles. Each and every one. We all struggle with different things. It may be harder for some then for others. Those some, will just have to be WILLING to work harder. And of course still be willing to do whatever it is and accept no excuses. Rise above those obstacles. Be willing to do what is necessary. Be willing to discover what that necessary is. And be willing to execute it.

Deana
07-29-2009, 08:44 AM
This is such an interesting thread. I believe, like most of you, bar some type of medical condition that diet and exercise do work. However, I think the problem, in general, is people want a quick fix. So they turn to extremely restrictive diets, and focus on only short-term goals "I want to lose 10 pounds in one month". Ok, but what happens after you lose the 10 pounds? You reach your goal weight, then what? Then you slowly start reverting back to old habits b/c you have accomplished your goal. I think we need to start thinking more in the long term, it's ok to have short term goals but set long term ones as well. I already know when I'm back to my goal weight, I will HAVE to exercise ATLEAST 3 times a week for the rest of my life, and preferably 4. B/c I work a desk job 10 hours a day, I know I am not burning as much calories I used to when I was a college student.

I think the second reason why people fail is because they don't understand themselves. They don't understand what caused them to become overweight in the first place. For some it is emotional eating, some people just eat too much junk, others simply overeat, etc. All of these situations require different approaches. Someone who eats for emotional reasons should probably get some type of therapy/counseling. Someone who just eats too much junk should find ways to enjoy healthy snacking, if you overeat you need to learn portion control, etc. I know for me personally, the TWO reasons why I gained weight was moving from an active lifestyle to a desk job, and eating out WAY WAY too much. It didn't seem like I was eating a lot, and I wasn't, only three meals a day but hey if those three meals come from McDonald's, KFC, even my favorite sandwich at Subway can easily clost me 800 calories...next thing you know I'm consuming way more than I'm burning and voila!

So this is my long winded way of saying I think in it's simple form diet and exercise work, but most people don't work it. Or they work it for a short time frame and then stop "dieting" and gain the weight all back. I do believe in lifestyle changes and behavior modification than I do "dieting" per se.

rockinrobin
07-29-2009, 09:07 AM
Deana, yes, I agree with you.

People have to be willing to find what is keeping them from not losing the weight - the wrong foods, inactivity, portion control, eating out... whatever. You have to be open to it and willing to see what needs to be worked on - and then figure out a way to get around it. Accepting no excuses.

As far as the emotional eating. I believe that I was/still am? an emotional eater. I ate when I was happy, sad, angry, bored, lonely, frustrated, stressed, nervous and on and on. I ate for past horrors in my childhood. No, I didn't go for counseling, probably should have. But I was willing to change things. I was willing to STOP eating for those reasons and start doing other things. I was willing to change and do what was necessary.

As far as "diets' working long term - well that's why we call it a lifestyle change. But you can still call it a diet, if one likes. You just then have to be willing to do that "diet" - longterm.

So this is my long winded way of saying I think in it's simple form diet and exercise work, but most people don't work it. Or they work it for a short time frame and then stop "dieting" and gain the weight all back. I do believe in lifestyle changes and behavior modification than I do "dieting" per se.

That's what the OP basically said. It works - if you work it. It won't work if you don't work it. It stops if you stop.

Jacquie668
07-29-2009, 09:24 AM
I believe the OP alluded to the fact that she wasn't speaking of those with the rare medical issues.......

Jacquie, yes, without a doubt some of us face more obstacles then others. But there is a way AROUND those obstacles. Each and every one. We all struggle with different things. It may be harder for some then for others. Those some, will just have to be WILLING to work harder. And of course still be willing to do whatever it is and accept no excuses. Rise above those obstacles. Be willing to do what is necessary. Be willing to discover what that necessary is. And be willing to execute it.

I believe I gave one example that was rare, the rest were not. ;) My point was that it varies from person to person and while I said I agree with the general blanket statement I leave room for exceptions as there are. Those that elect to have WLS, which was mentioned a few times in this thread, have their reasons and obviously are willing to have surgery to try to help themselves because simple "diet and exercise" may not work for them so they need something more.

I agree with the will. You do have to want it, want the change, but I do feel that a lot of people focus on "dieting" and only short term goals in general. Which leads to people feeling burned out and I find that my willingness is not in "working harder" but just learning how to understand myself (as Deana mentioned) and focusing on lifestyle changes.

I kind of feel like we are saying the same thing, but in different ways, but maybe that is just me. ;)

rockinrobin
07-29-2009, 09:38 AM
I agree with the will. You do have to want it, want the change, but I do feel that a lot of people focus on "dieting" and only short term goals in general. Which leads to people feeling burned out and I find that my willingness is not in "working harder" but just learning how to understand myself (as Deana mentioned) and focusing on lifestyle changes.



It's not only WANTING the change, IMO - but be WILLING TO change.

And yes, I think we have to be willing to understand ourselves. Recognize what we need and be open to change things. I think people need to willing to commit to this - long term.


I kind of feel like we are saying the same thing, but in different ways, but maybe that is just me. ;)

And yes, I think we are basically saying the same thing!!

DezziePS
07-29-2009, 10:22 AM
You know, I was thinking about this the other day. One of my guilty pleasures is Dr.Phil. Say what you will, I like the guy. Anyway, on his show was a very heavy woman and her very heavy toddler. All the doctors had told this woman that there was really nothing medically wrong with her son that they could find, which she took to mean that there WAS something wrong, they just couldn't find it. She insisted that she NEVER overfed her child and that he ONLY ate healthy foods in small portions. Dr.Phil's point was that (barring extreme medical examples like the lady with the brain tumor someone else was talking about), weight doesn't come from nowhere, and you can't change what you don't acknowledge.

The woman, I'm sure, was terribly embarrassed to be talking about her weight on national television. It was almost as if her son being so large was an excuse for her to be so big. "Proof" to her that she couldn't control being fat. The thing she didn't realize was that it is so much LESS scary when you acknowledge that you CAN do something to control how fat you are. If you burn more calories than you consume, you will lose weight. For the vast majority of people, it is just that simple. Simple doesn't mean easy, though.

HotWings
07-29-2009, 11:37 AM
I agree. Losing weight, to me, is completely mental. Our minds make the decisions regarding what to put in our mouths, whether or not we exercise, etc. etc. Any negative thoughts I have floating around in my head are EXCUSES - all of them. Plain and simple. Old, ignorant thoughts that I placed there to make myself feel better about eating wrong, not exercising, etc. Ironic that by trying to make myself feel better in my mind about things, that I was actually making myself worse.

When I got up this morning, I was still tired. *Immediately* the thought popped into my head that I should just sleep a little longer and if I didn't do my cardio I could do it tomorrow. WRONG. I had to stop the train of thought quick.. it was all the old excuses for not getting my booty up and doing what I HAVE to do to lose this weight.

This is completely a mental game for me. I know what to do, I know I am on the proper plan.. engaging my brain correctly is the real work for me. I am working on mastering this game :)

Windchime
07-29-2009, 11:44 AM
If you burn more calories than you consume, you will lose weight. For the vast majority of people, it is just that simple. Simple doesn't mean easy, though.

Simple doesn't mean easy, you're right! Something I see here often is people saying, 'But everyone knows <insert fact about healthy eating here>'. The problem is, everyone *doesn't* know that. Kira gave the example of someone eating "healthy salads" that are in fact covered with croutons and cheese and drenched in dressing. Many people honestly do NOT understand that those things are all high in calories. And not just kinda high, SUPER high. Same thing with fast food. I didn't gain all my weight by pigging out all the time (although there was some cookies and chips action on the weekends, most of the time)--I gained a lot of it just by sitting around and eating fast food for lunch every day, combined with take-and-bake pizza on Friday night, combined with a dinner out here and there.

In my mind, I would think things like, "One burger from Wendy's isn't that much, and can't make that much of a difference!". And if it was a week of super healthy eating, with one little Wendy's burger in it, then I might be right. But it wasn't; it was a constant stream. And I was unconsciously forming eating habits that were supporting my heavy body, my heavy lifestyle.

So for me, I did think for a long time that all the changes I would have to make were too small, that they wouldn't matter, that I was stuck at the weight I was at. It wasn't true, but I honestly felt that way. I'm glad to learn that the changes DO make a difference, though! :) Still yet, I hesitate to say that this always works for everyone, because so many people struggle so painfully and for so long and if WLS is the answer for them, then I support them and encourage them on their journey.

dragonwoman64
07-29-2009, 12:25 PM
I do think it's possible to have diet burnout. I've had it.

I had the thought that on the one hand, it is good to acknowledge when I'm making an excuse not to do what I need to do, and get past that. On the other, as I've read in so many posts here, there are lots of challenges (biological, psychological, emotional, etc.) that I've faced too, and thinking of the idea of the word "excuse," I mean it does seem to me like a concept I could use to psychologically thrash myself with. I don't know if anyone else has that reaction.

maybe it's the all or nothing nature that I feel connected to it. I mean, there are reasons, and excuses, right? I know it might sound like semantics, and weight loss takes such singlemindedness and dedication, it's hard not to want to sweep away all the chatter that makes it feel more complicated (and so possibly harder to do mentally).

maybe for some people it's good to take a breath, and think when a challenge comes up about the difference between a reason and an excuse, to decide which it is they may be experiencing. while I think it's good to "be real", I also think it's even better to be kind to ourselves.

HotWings
07-29-2009, 12:35 PM
I do think it's possible to have diet burnout. I've had it.

I had the thought that on the one hand, it is good to acknowledge when I'm making an excuse not to do what I need to do, and get past that. On the other, as I've read in so many posts here, there are lots of challenges (biological, psychological, emotional, etc.) that I've faced too, and thinking of the idea of the word "excuse," I mean it does seem to me like a concept I could use to psychologically thrash myself with. I don't know if anyone else has that reaction.

maybe it's the all or nothing nature that I feel connected to it. I mean, there are reasons, and excuses, right? I know it might sound like semantics, and weight loss takes such singlemindedness and dedication, it's hard not to want to sweep away all the chatter that makes it feel more complicated (and so possibly harder to do mentally).

maybe for some people it's good to take a breath, and think when a challenge comes up about the difference between a reason and an excuse, to decide which it is they may be experiencing. while I think it's good to "be real", I also think it's even better to be kind to ourselves.

Interesting! I know, for me, it is all excuses. I have no medical conditions, etc. that would hinder me. You are completely right, though, that there are actual conditions and obstacles/reasons that are not under someone's control that are valid. :yes:

harrismm
07-29-2009, 12:47 PM
I agree with all of the great responses here.I am also a chronic Dr. Phil watcher.LOL!I remember one episode about weight loss when he said to a guest that had every excuse under the sun not to do it(sounds like me).He said to her, you are acting like a toddler.A 2 year old that wants what she wants when she wants it.You are an adult.You need to learn to tell your self NO.
Rockinrobin-a very successful maintainer is so right here.
Personally, I have not been very good at telling myself no.The diets I have tried were NEVER the problem......it was always me!

CruiseCAT
07-29-2009, 01:27 PM
Except for those that have a medical condition my thoughts are in my signature.

Onederchic
07-29-2009, 01:46 PM
I am in agreement with those that believe if someone has a serious medical condition that requires wls then by all means, get it done but if it is just because you want a quick fix then it's not for you (I am using the word you in a general term and not to anyone in particular). Dedication, commitment and lots of hard work are what's required to lose weight, though not those exclusively, and keep it off . It is not a diet to me, it is a lifetime change and you have to want it bad enough for yourself that you will let nothing stop you from achieving it.

Jacquie668
07-29-2009, 01:55 PM
Simple doesn't mean easy, you're right! Something I see here often is people saying, 'But everyone knows <insert fact about healthy eating here>'. The problem is, everyone *doesn't* know that. Kira gave the example of someone eating "healthy salads" that are in fact covered with croutons and cheese and drenched in dressing. Many people honestly do NOT understand that those things are all high in calories. And not just kinda high, SUPER high. Same thing with fast food. I didn't gain all my weight by pigging out all the time (although there was some cookies and chips action on the weekends, most of the time)--I gained a lot of it just by sitting around and eating fast food for lunch every day, combined with take-and-bake pizza on Friday night, combined with a dinner out here and there.

I like Kira's example of the salad too as I used to eat salads like that way back when. Reminds me of my past eating habits and large part of me was clueless. I think one of the reasons why I don't always like blanket statements like "diet and exercise," putting things in simplistic terms is that while yes there is truth (and I agree generally) there are these exceptions and things are never as simple as the statement is. I think most things can be broken down into simplistic terms, but it is like the "healthy salads." Yeah simplistically it is a salad, so is ambrosia salad and doesn't that have marshmallows. lol. However, clearly there is a bit more there. I don't think that people who eat "healthy salads" really know what they're eating. I was like that once. I've seen people say "how could they not know that it isn't healthy," but to me and maybe I'm on my own on this, diet and nutrition can be a complicated subject. lol I had a friend who said I should eat baked beans every day because he thought it was healthy, all because of an article he read about a guy who ate baked beans as a diet. The article even had "expert advice." Exact quote from my friend giving me advice, "All you need is baked beans and exercise," and he was serious. lol I can't eat baked beans for the rest of my life, let alone the sugar would have bad effects on my issues.

Everyone has their own opinion. Every has a way of saying things. One person says it is as simple as diet and exercise (i've actually been told this personally), another person says no you need low carb, another person says it is all about calorie counting, another person says to focus on short term goals, etc etc. Experts and non-experts, it is a lot of depth out there and for the average person I really think it becomes so overwhelming that they burn out. I can understand and appreciate on some levels the simple general blanket thoughts and terms, but then again I wouldn't walk up to someone who has had WLS and tell them all they need is diet and exercise and that their problem is them. I've witnessed an individual actually say something along those lines to a person who had WLS and the reaction wasn't a positive one I'll tell you that.

I do agree with dedication and working toward changing ourselves. I think that is a key thing for all of us.

I had the thought that on the one hand, it is good to acknowledge when I'm making an excuse not to do what I need to do, and get past that. On the other, as I've read in so many posts here, there are lots of challenges (biological, psychological, emotional, etc.) that I've faced too, and thinking of the idea of the word "excuse," I mean it does seem to me like a concept I could use to psychologically thrash myself with. I don't know if anyone else has that reaction.

maybe it's the all or nothing nature that I feel connected to it. I mean, there are reasons, and excuses, right? I know it might sound like semantics, and weight loss takes such singlemindedness and dedication, it's hard not to want to sweep away all the chatter that makes it feel more complicated (and so possibly harder to do mentally).

This is a lesson I have yet to master personally, but lately I've found my stubborn side when my mind starts producing excuses and you know I kind of feel like I'm waging a battle within myself 24/7. That can be an emotional drain, but learning how to cope is a key thing with me.

I have medical and emotional issues. In a way the medical issues have created a wall I can never go back over because if I did it would make my health deteriorate at a fast pace. Can't have dairy, can't have certain types of meat (though I don't eat meat so I'm lucky in that respect to not have that struggle), can't have refined sugar... so for me those things help in a way. However, the emotional side is mostly where my battle is. That is where my dedication is, to heal inside and out. If that makes sense. Which is draining on some days, but other days when I say no to myself and get up and get going it does seem like those days are more fulfilling and fun. A new concept for me...:carrot:

jinna86
07-29-2009, 02:01 PM
I can understand how someone would opt for WLS... I mean, as an emotional eater, eating itself is a "quick fix". It instantaneously makes you feel better (though the feeling doesn't last), and for some people losing weight, their new "fix" becomes that number on the scale. When that number ceases to budge, they lose that reward feeling, and it seems like what their doing doesn't work.

I find that healthy weight loss/maintainance requires a lot of mental strength and preparedness. If you keep trying to diet, but your attitude never changes, well... then of course nothing is ever going to work. You're just going to be constantly in search of your "fix"... on top of that, a lot of people losing weight seem to think that once their at their goal, most of their life problems will be solved. I had that attitude once, and when I did lose weight, and realized I wasn't any happier or any different (except physically), I just lost my drive.

Nowadays, it's just a matter of being healthy, learning to love myself as I am, and finding something that will work for the rest of my life.

Oh, and plus, I read a study recently that showed that people who had a positive perception of themselves tend to have lower BMIs (I wish i could find a link to that article). The reasoning is that when you feel good about yourself, you want to put healthy things in your body, and make better choices. So... yay for self love :)

Jacquie668
07-29-2009, 02:09 PM
Oh, and plus, I read a study recently that showed that people who had a positive perception of themselves tend to have lower BMIs (I wish i could find a link to that article). The reasoning is that when you feel good about yourself, you want to put healthy things in your body, and make better choices. So... yay for self love

*nods* I think the positive attitude and perceptions play an important role, speaking from me personally when I'm active (not exercising per say, but just active), watching what i'm eating to a point, and just living my life and feeling good...i have a lot of success. The thing is, I'm not "dieting" during those times. I'm really just living.

When I'm not positive and feeling negative, it is like a chain reaction. Boom boom boom, weight stall or gain. When I'm feeling good, I eat a lot, but it is all healthy, veggies veggies veggies. When I'm feeling bad about myself and wrestling I tend to crave carbs, especially when I'm hormonal. Heaving, comforting things like pasta...things like that. I don't feel good physically and I don't feel good emotionally.

Which is why I said that it is for me about healing from the inside out. Literally and emotionally. I'm sure a lot of people would agree with that.

kiramira
07-29-2009, 04:13 PM
Oh, and please all keep in mind that if there is a medical reason for weight gain, gastric bypass will not address the reason! The extra weight is simply a symptom of a problem in this case. You have to address the medical causes.

Cushing's Disease is caused by a tumor on the pituitary gland that is located in the brain. One of the symptoms is indeed unexplained weight gain (amongst other symptoms, such as typical fat deposits on the back of the neck and so on). WLS will NOT address the tumor. Medication (or excision surgery) addresses the tumor. And IF the person is indeed eating as they say they are, the weight will naturally come off because the extra hormones that the tumor produces will be kept in check through medication or as a result of excision surgery. WLS does NOT address the CAUSE of the weight, so if you have it, you may be thinner, but you'll still have a tumor that is producing too many hormones that needs to be addressed.

And if you think about it, IF a medical issue is causing the weight gain and the person is eating "normally", or in line with those with an average BMI and the medical issue is resolved, there is no reason why the person won't return naturally to a healthy weight. And it also seems to me that WLS would be contra-indicated in this case, as emotional/psychological reasons are not involved directly with the weight gain (meaning the extensive counselling involved with WLS candidates is not required) and neither is an abnormal intake nor the need to restrict the person's intake mechanically.

However, I suspect that in alot of cases, where people state they have unfindable medical issues for their weight gain (as the larger woman on Dr. Phil) OR they state that genetics are their problem OR they state that they eat normally but their body's don't lose weight, they are really in SERIOUS denial about their habits and intake. And I suspect that there are certain conditions which may make it EASIER to gain weight, but often these conditions are used as, well, an excuse for being large. I know, cause I've been there myself :lol:.


Kira

Jacquie668
07-29-2009, 04:30 PM
Oh, and please all keep in mind that if there is a medical reason for weight gain, gastric bypass will not address the reason! The extra weight is simply a symptom of a problem in this case. You have to address the medical causes.

Cushing's Disease is caused by a tumor on the pituitary gland that is located in the brain. One of the symptoms is indeed unexplained weight gain (amongst other symptoms, such as typical fat deposits on the back of the neck and so on). WLS will NOT address the tumor. Medication (or excision surgery) addresses the tumor. And IF the person is indeed eating as they say they are, the weight will naturally come off because the extra hormones that the tumor produces will be kept in check through medication or as a result of excision surgery. WLS does NOT address the CAUSE of the weight, so if you have it, you may be thinner, but you'll still have a tumor that is producing too many hormones...


Kira

That is what it was...I couldn't remember the name, TY :D

I think in the case that I read about the woman did not have WLS, she did have the procedure to remove the tumor, which was successful for her. Her weight started to return to normal because she did eat a healthy diet.

I think what struck a cord with me about her case and others like it is that she was told by medical professionals to 'eat right and exercise' and even had her on an even more strict diet than she was. Still she gained, but found the answer eventually, which I'm sure is a great relief in a way to be finally listened to and be diagnosed appropriately.

Added thought:

I agree that though there are people out there in denial, etc. I mean my family are genetically big, seriously, we gain weight easily, but I have to wonder is it really that we gain weight easily (maybe) or is it more about the food that we eat? I think there is a point when it stops being a genetic thing for my family and another point where it takes off being an eating problem, if that makes sense.

I mean I can't eat certain foods, now that I know what is wrong with me, I can adjust and even though it is hard to adjust at least I know what I need to do and where I need to go. I just struggle on the path like everyone else lol. However, if I continued to load of up on cheese and cakes and things that while I didn't eat huge amounts of, I ate enough to increase my weight gain over time, then that is my issue and not to be blamed on my genetics. My skin and allergy issues...okay yeah that is totally genetic. *CURSE YOU GENETICS* lol

Though we all are big boned in my family...and...we have big butts and hips. Thanks Mom and Dad! :D lol

forestroad
07-29-2009, 04:32 PM
I think we do place too much emphasis on personal responsibility. If diets are too hard for 95% of dieters to stick to, do they really work? A diet can't just work in a lab, it has to work in the context of our lifestyles. It just seems like we as a society keep butting our heads into the brick wall of dieting, when maybe we should be investigating a food supply that has been so robbed of nutrients by subsidies and monocultures that we have to eat a third more calories than a person living not even a hundred years ago to get the same amount of nutrients. Kaplods, I am certainly with you on thinking outside the culture box. Or as someone else posted, people who feel good about themselves tend to have lower bmi, so maybe the problem isn't just us individuals who can't stick to our diets, but also a society that makes women who deviate from the narrow beauty ideal (99% of us) feel bad themselves?

Diets work for most people, in the sense that most people who eat less than they burn will lose weight. IMO, diets do not work in the sense that most people are not able to balance their calories in real life so ideally. I just don't buy the argument that "I gave up; therefore I am the problem, not the diet." We like to think that with some willpower and self-control we can beat the diet odds, but we don't give credit to so many things that are out of our control. Somethings about weight loss are as out of our control (distance to healthy food, job loss, stress, illness, time, energy to name a few) as whether we can afford an expensive drug. If a drug was invented that cured the common cold, but was too expensive for people to produce/purchase on a large scale, sure, it cures the common cold, but I wouldn't really say it "works"--it doesn't cure people. That drug to me would be about as effective as "dieting".

I don't mean to sound harsh or down on ppl's WOE, many of us can control many of the myriad factors that influence what we put in our mouths. So I guess for me, it comes down to the difference between dieting as a solution to an individual's problems (maybe) and to society's problems (no).

JulieJ08
07-29-2009, 07:09 PM
I agree that though there are people out there in denial, etc. I mean my family are genetically big, seriously, we gain weight easily, but I have to wonder is it really that we gain weight easily (maybe) or is it more about the food that we eat? I think there is a point when it stops being a genetic thing for my family and another point where it takes off being an eating problem, if that makes sense.

There are certainly genetics. A child's weight correlates best with his/her biological parents over adoptive parents.

kiramira
07-29-2009, 09:55 PM
But there IS the saying, by many in the WL business, that "although genetics may load the gun, environment pulls the trigger..."

Kira

JulieJ08
07-29-2009, 11:49 PM
True of a great many diseases.

harrismm
07-30-2009, 12:54 AM
OT-But those studies of twins raised in different homes always facinate me!

Idealmuse
07-30-2009, 01:04 AM
And the willingness to travel that road and stay the course.

I know, I know. I sound like a broken record. But I believe with all my heart, that is what it will always boil down to. WILLINGNESS. :dizzy:

So true Robin... I wish I would have found my willingness earlier, but hey I'm not complaining... I'm thrilled to have found my new found drive for success! :)

rockinrobin
07-30-2009, 06:55 AM
So true Robin... I wish I would have found my willingness earlier, but hey I'm not complaining... I'm thrilled to have found my new found drive for success! :)

You know for me, having traveled the road (& still a-travelin'), having hindsight clearly on my side - I can see that now. Crystal clear. All those 20+ years, I couldn't see it, or I should probably say I wouldn't see it. During that 20 year stretch, I believed my excuses were legitimate reasons. And now having "done it", I can see that that was nonsense. Nonsense. I was simply not willing to do what was necessary. But so often, during that time I really, really believed that I was not capable. How I wish someone one have sat me down and said - yes you CAN. You can do this. You've got the ability. There is no magic to this. It's not rocket science. It's not some hare-brained, far-fetched, crazy, outrageous, out of this world scheme. You just have to be willing to.......

And then I wonder, luckily not all that often, did I really know it the whole time????? And I think deep, deep, DEEP down - I may have. I may have known I was capable of it.... But I was not willing to do what was required....... :(

dragonwoman64
07-30-2009, 09:34 AM
And then I wonder, luckily not all that often, did I really know it the whole time????? And I think deep, deep, DEEP down - I may have. I may have known I was capable of it.... But I was not willing to do what was required....... :(


maybe you just weren't ready

rockinrobin
07-30-2009, 09:37 AM
maybe you just weren't ready

Yup. I think that may be a big part of it.

dragonwoman64
07-30-2009, 10:08 AM
I think we do place too much emphasis on personal responsibility. If diets are too hard for 95% of dieters to stick to, do they really work? A diet can't just work in a lab, it has to work in the context of our lifestyles. ...I just don't buy the argument that "I gave up; therefore I am the problem, not the diet." We like to think that with some willpower and self-control we can beat the diet odds, but we don't give credit to so many things that are out of our control.
...
I don't mean to sound harsh or down on ppl's WOE, many of us can control many of the myriad factors that influence what we put in our mouths. So I guess for me, it comes down to the difference between dieting as a solution to an individual's problems (maybe) and to society's problems (no).

-food supply: lots of cheap food that's high caloric, drive throughs, fast foods that offer food many people find "addictive"; grocery stores and packaging are managed (shelf placement, point of purchase) to sell certain products (and it's not veggies and fruits). The food industry uses "diet" to package and sell foods to get you buy and eat more, not less. Probably lots more to add to this, but I'm no expert.

-culturally, we do put a negative spin on being heavy, overweight. and yes that seriously effects the self esteem of many people who are heavy/ overweight. dieting really takes a can-do attitude, low self esteem works against that.

-the information is out there re nutrition and exercise, and so is the help, but in the end, the individual has to learn and adapt his/her own personal habits/tastes, there's a huge amount of personal responsibility involved. it's also, for most people, a slow process, losing weight. we are a society that LOVES immediate gratification and instant results. and like forestroad said above, some people have many more practical obstacles than others: budget, support, availability, life situation, mental and physical health.

it is the gazillion dollar question how to get people to lose weight and keep it off, it's already a crisis in this country.

I think a site like this, where we're all in a weight loss boat and can support each other through all these hills we have to face while we work to get off the pounds, is a great resource. For me, just reading posts from women who've lost over a hundred pounds, are keeping it off and feeling how great it is to be thin, and can share that, really boosts my incentive and focus.

JulieJ08
07-30-2009, 10:47 AM
And then I wonder, luckily not all that often, did I really know it the whole time????? And I think deep, deep, DEEP down - I may have. I may have known I was capable of it.... But I was not willing to do what was required....... :(

I had a different experience. I always knew what I needed to do. I knew I *could* do it. I just put it off. I didn't make excuses, I knew there were none. It obviously comes down to deciding you're willing to do it. But I still don't know how that happens. Why was that moment different than the 10 years before it? I don't know.

Idealmuse
07-30-2009, 01:45 PM
Yup. I think that may be a big part of it.

Now if we could just figure out how to prime people for readiness we'd be millionaires. :) I was also one of those who didn't think it was possible. Big change of thinking in the last year or two, and heck I haven't even gotten to goal yet. Difference now is I know its a matter of time.

HotWings
07-30-2009, 02:11 PM
I feel that way too, Idealmuse. It seems like my weight right now doesn't reflect what I have learned about myself! I, too... think the difference for me this time is that it is only a matter of time. I am not punching around in the dark trying to make something work or trying to figure out why I can't make it work. I know what I need to do, what happened in the past that made things not "work" for me, and I am committed.

Following my plan and waiting it out now, but dang it seems like sooo far off! I have to concentrate on the little victories along the way and stay positive.

rockinrobin
07-30-2009, 02:49 PM
Following my plan and waiting it out now, but dang it seems like sooo far off! I have to concentrate on the little victories along the way and stay positive.

We were just talking about impatience here:

http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/100-lb-club/177840-i-have-bad-case-i-want-now.html

Take a look.

dragonwoman64
07-30-2009, 02:51 PM
Following my plan and waiting it out now, but dang it seems like sooo far off! I have to concentrate on the little victories along the way and stay positive.


http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/100-lb-club/177840-i-have-bad-case-i-want-now.html

this should make you feel better!

(too funny, rr; like minds)

kiramira
07-30-2009, 06:59 PM
Hi there!

from DragonWoman64: food supply: lots of cheap food that's high caloric, drive throughs, fast foods that offer food many people find "addictive";


I just got back from the grocery store, and thought I'd share the high cost of preparing a meal at home, with cheap nutritious foods available at the local grocery store:

1 lb extra-lean ground from a butcher shop (my splurge): $4.00
2 x 28 oz tins canned tomatoes, no salt added: $1.98
1 onion: $0.35
1 bulb garlic: $0.20
750 g bag dried spaghetti, no name: $2.99
Small bag dried Italian Spices, bulk: $0.42
16 oz fresh whole white mushrooms: $2.99
1 baguette: $1.99

This will make two days worth of spaghetti for 6 servings, for a cost of approximately $15.00 Cdn., or $2.50 PER SERVING.

Low salt, low fat, delicious, made at home, filling, WW compatible!

For dessert: Blueberry grunt:

Fresh blueberries from Costco: $3.99
1 lemon: $0.50
3/4 cup flour, 1/4 cup sugar, 2 tbsp butter, baking powder: $2.00

No added salt, can be made with frozen blueberries for less than you can for fresh, filling, WW compatible!

Total dessert for 6: $6.50, or approximately $1.20 per serving

Total cost for spaghetti and meat sauce, garlic bread, blueberry grunt, and water to drink per person: $3.70 Cdn

Cost of ONE 12 inch takeout pizza -- $17.00, taxes included. From a 2-for-1 place, TWO 12 inch pizzas for $24.00 taxes included.

I just posted this to show that the concept that while there is alot of cheap high-caloric food out there, you can find cheap, low-caloric and nutritious foods just as easily...it just takes time and EFFORT, if you make the decision to lose the weight. And follow through with what doing what is NECESSARY, not what you THINK is necessary...and I'll suspect that doing what is necessary may be more cost effective than one thinks, but it just takes time.

I personally think that the individual, rather than society, needs to assume the responsibility for what they choose to put in his/her mouth. There ARE nutritious, healthy, low-cost options out there. And foods today are NO LESS NUTRITIOUS than they were years ago, despite what the organic foods lobby would like you to believe: http://english.pravda.ru/news/science/30-07-2009/108508-organic_food-0

According to a British review of studies done over the past 50 years, organic and conventionally produced foods have about the same nutrient content, suggesting that neither is better in terms of health benefits.

Alan Dangour of the school's public health intervention research unit and one of the report's authors, said: "A small number of differences in nutrient content were found to exist between organically and conventionally produced foodstuffs, but these are unlikely to be of any public health relevance." , Wall Street Journal reports.

and http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health/organic-food-isnt-any-more-nutritious/article1235508/

In the new study, which will be published in the September issue of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, researchers conducted a comprehensive review of 55 scientific studies, known as a meta-analysis, to better understand the nutritional differences between organic and conventional food.

They concluded that levels of major nutrients, including vitamin C, magnesium, calcium, zinc and potassium, were similar in organic and non-organic crops.

But there were some differences that researchers noted. Organic crops tended to have higher phosphorous and acidity levels, while conventional crops were found to have higher amounts of nitrogen, differences researchers said could likely be attributed to variations in fertilizer use and ripeness at time of harvest.

There really is no reason, IMHO, to excuse a poor choice by using the "system" as an excuse -- IF you believe organic is best, totally go for it. You aren't a FAILURE, though, if you can't afford to eat that way. You DO have choices out there. And you don't need to consume 1/3 MORE calories a day in order to meet nutritional requirements with "off the rack" foods. And most of us with weight issues didn't gain weight by eating too much quinoa: we gained it through a slice of pizza here, a fast-food dinner there, and by overconsuming high calorie processed foods. We as a society often choose pizza over homemade spaghetti and blueberry grunt. And then look to the medical establishment to "fix" our problems...

Kira

dragonwoman64
07-31-2009, 09:42 AM
gawk, ha, I agree, Kira
http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/general-chatter/177154-girl-you-so-cheap.html

I'm not always so eloquent, I just meant to point out that there are a lot of ways that food is offered up, including fast food that's marketed as quick, cheap and easy, that people opt for because 1) it tastes good (I know not everyone would agree with that! ha, but lots of people like the taste of some kind of fast food), 2) it does seem easy and fast, esp when you have kids, a job, a place to take care of, outside activities, etc. It can be very tempting to go that route rather than make the (what I consider much more worthwhile choice) to create economical, healthy meals that can help with weight loss.

packaging for goodies (and commercials), including packaging for diet meals, can be very compelling (and misleading). and if you are a person who is rather half minded about being aware of nutrition and caloric content, you can get sucked right in. [gazillions gets spent on researching packaging and marketing, and on catering to our cravings, not always with good nutrition and weight loss in mind!]

I agree that the individual needs to make the choice, and follow through, and take responsibility.

what's happened in this country is that the epidemic of obesity has gotten so great, that society is already having to pay a price for it, in healthcare costs and by straining other resources (that we as taxpayers are paying for). and it's getting worse. not to mention it has an impact on our productive capacity as a nation if we're physically (and possibly mentally) disabling ourselves (with the thought that obesity can play a major part in depression and other mental health problems). so I do think that yes, we should address the problems on a bigger level, but of course losing weight is the responsibility of the individual and the choices an individual makes.

Jacquie668
07-31-2009, 10:23 AM
I just got back from the grocery store, and thought I'd share the high cost of preparing a meal at home, with cheap nutritious foods available at the local grocery store:

In my area, I find that there are lower cost options than the usual grocery stores. There is a Sams Club and I think that is like Costco (not a member of either so I'm not sure), but in the area I live we have produce markets that specialize in just that, produce and a few odds and ends usually thrown in. Year around you can get produce cheaper and since I'm a vegan merging into raw food, I eat mostly produce, which can be really expensive. My boyfriend and I can end up spending a lot less at the produce market we go to. Not only that the produce is amazing when compared to the supermarkets in my area.

For example, usually lemons are on sale for $1.15 for 4 lemons and now that the farm stands and markets are open, produce is amazingly cheap. At our farm stand we go to, lemons were 4 for a dollar recently lol. I get amazed when I see people struggling at the grocery stores for produce. I think that in the area I'm in, which NJ is known for high living costs, it just amazes me that people are actually spending 2 to 3 times more for produce. Just the other day I saw a couple, who we are familiar with, buying a few items at the farm stand we go to. Amazingly I saw the same woman later on in the week buying tons of produce at the supermarket!!! She was even complaining about the prices and I'm thinking "WELL WHY DIDN'T YOU GO BACK TO THE FARM STAND!" LOL. People don't utilize the options in the area is my point.

Better produce at a lower cost...which amazes me that I didn't venture out into that kind of thinking sooner! Eating out is always expensive. You can easily spend like $40 for two people and I could easily buy almost a weeks worth of produce for that same amount. I also think that the processed foods cost way more than people think. We do have to visit the supermarket to get a few things. My boyfriend eats soy...soy is expensive when you compare it to other things. Soy patties, soy chicken things, soy blah blah, you can easily spend $60 - $80 just on those kind of things and you only walk out with a bag and a half of groceries.

I also try to make meals that last a few days for my boyfriend. I am still merging into raw food, so I have to watch the budget as I eat nuts for good fat and yadda yadda. Luckily our produce market has raw nuts for a bit cheaper than the markets. You get more for your buck really, but it is still incredibly expensive to buy nuts so I manage by trying to stretch things out lol.

kiramira
07-31-2009, 10:31 AM
You are so right in that society DOES wind up paying for obesity, through the health care system, disability, loss of productivity...I wonder how much further ahead we'd be if there was the diversion of $$$ from pharmaceutical research into the causes of obesity (since we pretty much know WHY we are big) into healthy school breakfast and lunch programs and public health education. I wonder how much further ahead we'd be if we could reengineer our urban spaces to make them less car-dependent. I wonder how much further ahead we'd be if we forced convenience food producers to use a certain percentage of their profits in programs to address the issue of reliable inexpensive HEALTHY food availability in low-income areas.

But it still strikes me that it comes down to effort, work, and personal choice...and don't forget, weight ISN'T a personal issue for alot of people -- lots of people quite simply just don't worry about it...

SUCH a great thread!

Kira

dragonwoman64
07-31-2009, 10:49 AM
I wonder how much further ahead we'd be if we could reengineer our urban spaces to make them less car-dependent.
....
But it still strikes me that it comes down to effort, work, and personal choice...and don't forget, weight ISN'T a personal issue for alot of people -- lots of people quite simply just don't worry about it...

SUCH a great thread!
Kira

oh, I just had to say this is an idea near and dear to my heart. There used to be a show called America's Walking that discussed this issue, and about efforts to incorporate walkable areas in communities.

[Certain areas, like around U.C. Davis in Calif (granted, that's rather rural), do a lot to promote bike riding.]

when I moved from NYC to CA for 6 months years ago, I had to constantly rely on a car to go everywhere. When I came back to NYC, the difference I felt physically was enormous. It took me literally months to get back into the same walking shape I was before I left.

I agree with you too, lots of people don't even worry about it, no matter what their weight. It's a sad/scary thing, because sometimes the issue comes to the forefront when a health crisis moment arises. In fact, I had a weight unrelated health scare (turned out not to be serious, but it could have been) that woke me up.

I've read here "chose your tough" (being heavy is tough, losing weight is tough). Being heavy, older, with a health issue where you may be forced to lose weight or face serious life or death consequences, is a tough to a degree we all should avoid if at all possible.

JulieJ08
07-31-2009, 10:59 AM
I wonder how much further ahead we'd be if there was the diversion of $$$ from pharmaceutical research into the causes of obesity (since we pretty much know WHY we are big) into healthy school breakfast and lunch programs and public health education.

You mean, tax the **** out of big pharm? Because you are talking about diverting private money into government money. Big pharm has no reason to invest in school lunch programs. Not that I don't wish that could happen, and I always believe there's a way. Sometimes we can't see it yet because it takes some big shift in thinking. But yeah, you can't just "divert" private money into public health. Certainly some big change needs to come, and the growing pains will be there for sure.

kiramira
07-31-2009, 11:06 AM
Hi! What I mean is that there are ways to raise money for public causes from private institutions. Governments do this ALL the time. Kind of forms the basis of our taxation system. Money is raised through taxes, and the government spends it on the public good, which might include a school breakfast or lunch program. So perhaps a type of tax may not be completely unreasonable, especially since the private research goes into the creation of pharmaceutical products and commercial products affects the public, often in a negative and financially-burdening way in the long run. And lots of the research out there is government funded, too.

Just a thought! I don't think it will happen, but wouldn't it be nice if instead of another Hydroxycut pill, all the children in your town had a healthy, balanced meal just once a day at school?

Kira

HotWings
07-31-2009, 11:26 AM
We were just talking about impatience here:

http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/100-lb-club/177840-i-have-bad-case-i-want-now.html

Take a look.

Thanks robin & dragonwoman! That really helped. Patience needs to be one of my mantras. :lol:

harrismm
07-31-2009, 12:15 PM
School lunches are a major disappointment in our local school system.I pay 2.25 a day per child.For me that is 6.75 a day.Now, Dont get me wrong, I do think the price for a meal is reasonable if they we getting an edible, healthy meal.Since my youngest child will still let me join him for lunch at school, I often have the opportunity to eat these meals.Obviously I dont expect a gormet meal but..........WOW!!Corn dogs, pizza, french fries, chicken strips,chocolate milk,tacos,cookies,cinnamon rolls......And my kids usually throw the whole meal away,come home after school starving and eat everything in site.So, the alternative is a sack lunch.Right?Nope.My kids would rather eat nothing than take a humiliating, embarrassing...sack lunch.UGH!!!!

kiramira
07-31-2009, 12:39 PM
Ya, crap in the school system is terrible -- it would be GREAT if it was just healthy and balanced...and what the heck do you do? Kids are gonna want to eat with their friends...

Sigh...

Kira

forestroad
07-31-2009, 02:27 PM
For dessert: Blueberry grunt:

Fresh blueberries from Costco: $3.99
1 lemon: $0.50
3/4 cup flour, 1/4 cup sugar, 2 tbsp butter, baking powder: $2.00

No added salt, can be made with frozen blueberries for less than you can for fresh, filling, WW compatible!

Total dessert for 6: $6.50, or approximately $1.20 per serving

Kira

This looks good...how do you make it?

kiramira
07-31-2009, 02:30 PM
I'll pm you so as not to hijack the thread!

Kira

mandalinn82
07-31-2009, 02:56 PM
There ARE nutritious, healthy, low-cost options out there. And foods today are NO LESS NUTRITIOUS than they were years ago, despite what the organic foods lobby would like you to believe: http://english.pravda.ru/news/scienc...organic_food-0


This is probably true for non-processed foods, but is definitely NOT true for any kind of processed or restaurant foods. To increase profits, processed, packaged, and served meals have become increasingly less healthy in the past 50 years...either by replacing ingredients with cheaper or longer lasting ones that are coincidentally less healthy (HFCS and trans fats) or by creating larger portion sizes, which take very little additional ingredient cost, but make consumers willing to pay a higher amount for the foods in question. It's not a conspiracy, it's just good economics. Unfortunately, I don't know how aware most people are of the decrease in nutrition and quality in packaged and served goods over the years.

We CAN make the argument that personal responsibility dictates that people not partake in these foods, but it's pretty certain that some people always will, and that the negative nutritional impact of eating those foods on a regular basis has gone up significantly since they were introduced...in other words, what was once a "not so great choice" has become a "very bad choice".

I just read a very interesting book by a former food marketing exec whose argument was, essentially, that the changes to make these processed foods less healthy to make more profits were done without letting customers know...it makes good economic sense for companies to change back to healthier versions, even at a slightly higher ingredient cost, without letting the consumer know (because people believe that "healthy" processed foods taste bad, and don't buy them, and also because healthier processed food options tend to be priced out of low-income grocery budgets...), which will both improve national health AND ensure the food companies have brand loyal consumers with longer lifespans. I wasn't fond of the message that the food industry has to solve the problem, not consumers (I personally think it would have to be BOTH), but the arguments did make sense to a certain degree.

kaplods
07-31-2009, 07:35 PM
There is a lot of "blame" to go around for obesity, and not all of it lies at the feet of the obese. Personally, I think more will get accomplished, if instead of pointing fingers, if the people who can help, work on it together.

Schools bringing in restaurant franchises and cutting athletic, P.E. and recess to save money are contributing to obesity in children. You could blame the parents, or the child (or wait until he or she is older and then transfer blame from parent to child), but there are things that can be done to help people help themselves.

Not all obese people are uneducated, lazy or unwilling. There are many factors that contribute to obesity, and they're not all the fault of one segment of the population.

Two thirds of american adults are overweight or obese. In 1985, the obesity rate was 14%. In 2007 it was 30% - and it's growing, and is seen in all age groups. That means there are people alive today who were non-obese adults in 1985 who are now obese adults. Did these people suddenly become lazy, stupid, or irresponsible? I don't think so. Our changing environment is playing a role. We can ignore that and just blame the individual, or we can try to change our environment in a more responsible direction.

Not all of the obese are uneducated, but knowledge is power, and there's a lot of misinformation out there, and things we just don't know. For as long as I've been obese (since age 5) I mostly blamed only myself for my obesity (except once in a while, mostly during teen-year tantrums, I also blamed my parents). I did insane things to try to lose weight, but always relapsed because I couldn't control the insane hunger that made me want and think about food 24/7 (I even dreamt of food, especially while dieting). Weight loss was possible, but only at the expense of nearly everything else meaningful to me.

I knew that TOM was an especially difficult time for me to control my hunger, and I even suspected before I was out of my teens that stacking bc to reduce periods might be a possible solution, but my doctors always advised against it. It took me more than 20 years to find one doctor willing to support my trying it. WOW, the difference was amazing, and I have no doubt that if I had found this solution at age 21, instead of 41, it would have made my life and weight loss and maintenance a whole lot easier.

I don't have to work nearly as hard to lose weight and maintain it as I once did (which is good, because I just don't have the drive and determination any more).

By "blame" standards, I deserve less blame now that I am succeeding? Even though I'm working less and accidentally acheiving more?

I'm not lazy, crazy, or stupid and I don't think most obese people are. We have the ability to succeed in so many aspects of our lives, but somehow food and weight control are beyond our grasp? I don't think so, but I also don't think that there are simple answers or obesity would not be such a rapidly growing problem.

kiramira
07-31-2009, 08:57 PM
I don't think anyone is BLAMING you personally, Ms Kaplods. I just think that the general concept is that an individual is ultimately responsible for their weight, and that in virtually every case the individual has the power to do something about it.

And while I agree that collectively tackling societal obesity factors is important, through education and public health initiatives and so on, the INDIVIDUAL is ULTIMATELY repsonsible for themselves. I can educate a person up the HOOP, but I CAN'T MAKE THEM FOLLOW AN EATING OR EXERCISE PLAN. I'm not in someone's living room 24/7 monitoring what he or she may or may not eat. It is up to the individual, and no one else.

And perhaps if we consider societal factors but INDIVIDUALLY do what we can for OURSELVES, the individual numbers will add up and society will be, in essence, better.

I got fat because I ate too much and sat on my A$$. There were contributing factors, for sure -- pituitary tumor, medications, serious hormonal imbalances, family history, genetics, life experience, job loss -- but I personally decided to STOP USING these contributing factors as a rationale for being large and as an excuse for my failure to lose weight. And once I STOPPED deflecting the issue onto the shoulders of the medical establishment, genetics, society, my parents, my biology, I was able to get a grip and lose the weight. But that's just ME. We all have our own path to choose, and I make no judgement about other paths.
I can only control myself. I refuse to believe that diet and exercise won't work. And so far, I'm not doing so badly...

Kira

harrismm
07-31-2009, 09:37 PM
I am in agreement with Kira.I , like I said in a earlier post, am trying to change my lack of progrees in the weight loss department.LOL.I , and only I , are to blame for this.I have made the choice every day to either choose to eat within my calorie range for the day or not.I choose to either work out, or not.And believe me, I dont always do what I know how to do.I certainly agree that society makes it more convienent to live a sedentary life.But, at the end of the day, its all up to me.I am choosing to acknowledge the mistakes I have been making because you cant change what you dont acknowledge.Right?I know many people who NEVER eat fast food,NEVER take a day off from their exercise of choice.(I am not one of them).I think words are cheap really.Sometimes I feel hypacritical giving advice to others on this board when I have not met my own goal.Advice is great!But do you follow your own advice???That is what I have had to ask myself.Like many others I would guess, I find my self gravitating toward advice from our AMAZING maintainers!!I, personally want to hear its possible from someone who has walked the walk and show me....diet and exercise work!!!Easy?NO!Or course its not.Possible????Yes!