General chatter - Finally Saw "Twilight" W/DGD ...




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babenwaiting
07-02-2009, 03:49 PM
She will be 12 in November, and I thought the movie was fine for her. I know there are many *longing* looks but I thought the actual *underwear scene* was way over-hyped, and I don't think the younger girls "get" some of the same messages that some of the older ones do. As far as the vampires, violence, etc., I think she's seen as bad or worse in the Harry Potter movies, and she's not the type to easily scare, anyway.

So now, she's going to read the first book ... After that, we'll see about the others as she gets older; of course, she'll want to read them all right away. It seems, though, that every Mom I talk to (in person) has let her 12 yr. old read them all already (not that that would influence me.) Thanks again to everybody who gave views in the previous thread we did! :)


JulieRN
07-02-2009, 04:33 PM
Have you read them? The books are fantastic! AND there's a lot in the books about being 'pure' and saving sex for marriage. I read a quote by the guy who plays Edward in the movies and he said something along the lines of thing being ironic that books with a strong message about waiting for marriage has all of these girls writing him wanting not so innocent things from him...

L R K
07-02-2009, 04:40 PM
ironic that books with a strong message about waiting for marriage has all of these girls writing him wanting not so innocent things from him...

Ha! Good one :) :cp:


painted lady
07-02-2009, 05:01 PM
yeah, the author of Twilight is Mormon, so there's a lot of Christian overtones in those books. and it's why i won't buy them. she gave a ton of money to pro-Proposition 8 organizations with the profits!

sunflowergirl68
07-02-2009, 05:28 PM
The Twilight series are crap. I have my BA in English Literature, and let me tell you, those books are just utter crap. I wouldn't let my daughter read them simply because it's an over-wrought melodramatic story that glorifies a psychotic relationship and abstinence. It's so poorly written. The relationship between Bella and Edward is so distorted and the girls reading these books sees him as an ideal mate.

The problem I have is that Edward is the only thing that's important to Bella. I have a life outside of my boyfriend, but she barely does and she neglects her friends for a guy, who stalks her while she's sleeping. And the creepiest thing of all: He wants to kill her and eat her.

Read this article: it's a feminist perspective on the books (and they talk about all of the books, so spoilers abound) and talks about how Meyer glorifies abstinence and basically creates a new genre: abstinence porn. And the only reason why he doesn't want to have sex (at all) is because he's afraid of killing her. What a great message that is! Sex can literally kill you! The only reason why the agree to wait until marriage is because Bella bribes him and basically says that she'll marry him only if he agrees to have sex with her.

http://*****magazine.org/article/bite-me-or-dont

And don't get me wrong, I read the series twice. And I do not and will not recommend it to anyone.

if you want to read a romance, read Pride and Prejudice. Something with actual literary merit.


EDIT: Stupid censoring. The website is www.b itch magazine.org/article/bite-me-or-dont

babenwaiting
07-02-2009, 05:36 PM
Actually, the movie opens up a lot of useful conversation, though I know it's not great literature!!! :D For instance, my DGD immediately said the relationship wasn't realistic, and that you wouldn't want that in real life, though it makes an interesting story. I think as long as you're discussing all this, it's fine for them to see.

sunflowergirl68
07-02-2009, 05:46 PM
Well that's good, she sounds a lot smarter than her peers. I dunno, I thought the movie was hilarious because it was so crappily done but other than that it was pretty useless. I was reading Agatha Christie when I was her age. I would encourage her to read books she'll get something out of. It's my belief as a book lover that books should always give you something in return. Jane Austen is fantastic for readers who want to get into more difficult material, and she sounds smart, so she might like it, along with Louisa May Alcott and Anne of Green Gables (awesome series). All these books are written by women who were ahead of their time, and are all about women ahead of their time.

babenwaiting
07-02-2009, 05:55 PM
sunflowergirl68, she's read the things you've mentioned, except for Agatha Christie, and one of her favorite stories/movies is "Pride & Prejudice." She's one of those kids who brought home laundry baskets of books from the library at a very young age, and reads voraciously. She likes the vampire aspect of Twilight, gets a kick out of that. (One of her favorite Halloween costumes is a vampire one! :) )

sunflowergirl68
07-02-2009, 06:01 PM
If she likes vampires, here's a website with a list of vamp books:

http://www.vampirelibrary.com/

http://www.vampirelibrary.com/lists/guide.htm (at the end is a list of YA)

When she reaches high school, she'll probably like Octavia Butler and Margaret Atwood.

painted lady
07-03-2009, 10:23 PM
I'm in library school, and I'm currently doing a project about dystopian/post-apocalyptic novels for YA. Here's my list! (If she likes vampires, she might like some of these... I highly recommend every single one.)

The opposite of perfection: ten dystopic young adult novels



Anderson, M.T. Feed. Cambridge, Mass.: Candlewick Press, 2002.

Titus has an information feed hardwired into his brain; the feed tells him which trends to follow and helps him navigate the world. Anderson's deft crafting of extreme slang and believably flawed characters makes Feed a frighteningly realistic portrait of a future world where no one is safe, even in their own head. (Ages 14 and up)


Collins, Suzanne. The Hunger Games. New York: Scholastic, 2008.


Once a year, each district in Panem (formerly the United States) sends two teenage tributes to compete in the Hunger Games. Only one person comes out of it alive; Katniss hopes it's her. This suspenseful, superb novel incorporates political intrigue with wilderness survival and science fiction. (Ages 13 and up)


Doctorow, Cory. Little Brother. New York: Tor Books, 2008.


Markus, aka w1n5t0n, is a teenager in a San Francisco that doesn't exist yet; it's a place of constant surveillance and fear. He's in the wrong place at the wrong time, and ends up being interrogated by the Department of Homeland Security for six days. Markus fights established protocols and invasive security tactics in an exciting novel that has been compared to 1984. (Ages 13 and up)


DuPrau, Jeanne. The City of Ember. New York: Yearling, 2004.


The only light in the city of Ember comes from electric lamps; if the lamps go out, the city will be left in utter darkness. Doon and Lina think that time is soon to come, and when Lina finds a mysterious document, the pair teams up to discover a way out of the city. This is a dark, engrossing novel about two young people who challenge everything they've ever known. (Ages 10 and up)


Farmer, Nancy. The House of the Scorpion. New York: Atheneum Books, 2002.

Matt is a clone of El Patron, the leader of a drug-producing country south of the United States. Matt is being groomed to replace El Patron when he dies; he is educated, pampered, and hated. Farmer's pacing and balanced writing makes this novel a gripping tale of morality, humanity, and science. (Ages 13 and up)


Goodman, Allegra. The Other Side of the Island. New York: Razorbill, 2009.


Honor wants to fit in on Island 365, so she worships Earth Mother and tries to be a good student for the Corporation. Her rebellious parents, on the other hand, refuse to act the way they should, and are imprisoned; Honor must rescue them. Goodman's twisting plot and omniscient narrator (who knows how the story ends) are innovative and well-crafted. (Ages 12 and up)


Ness, Patrick. The Knife of Never Letting Go. Cambridge, Mass.: Candlewick Press, 2008.

A germ has killed all the women and given the men the strange ability to broadcast their thoughts to the world, in the form of Noise. Todd runs away from home, only to be chased by the townsfolk; he comes across a gap in the Noise, and everything he thought he knew about the world comes crashing down around him. The cliffhanger ending to this first of three Chaos Walking novels is like a punch to the stomach. (Ages 13 and up)


Pfeffer, Susan Beth. the dead and the gone. New York: Harcourt Books, 2008.


Alex's parents are away the night the moon tilts, and they don't come back. He must take care of his sisters and deal with having to grow up much too quickly. Readers will easily picture themselves in Pfeffer's story. (Ages 13 and up)


Pow, Tom. The Pack. New Milford, Conn.: Roaring Brook Press, 2004.


Bradley and his friends are The Pack: semi-feral children living in a destroyed world inhabited by dogs. An old woman takes care of the Pack, making sure they don't turn wild again, but when one of the children is kidnapped, Bradley and his friends must go on a dangerous journey to face a warlord. The violence and grim reality of this novel make it a gritty, intelligent read. (Ages 12 and up)


Ryan, Carrie. The Forest of Hands and Teeth. New York: Delacorte Press, 2009.


Night of the Living Dead meets romance: Mary lives in a village surrounded by a fence to keep out the undead, but she's just as scared of them as she is of being married off to a man she doesn't love. Mary and a group of villagers must fight off the zombies while they deal with their own personal issues. Ryan's novel is a great entrée into zombie literature because it's not overly gory and actually has a plot. (Ages 14 and up)

babenwaiting
07-08-2009, 04:45 PM
Thanks so much for the vampire book recommendations, ladies!!! I will definitely check them out for my DGD... :) I have now bought her the first two Twilight books, and she is thrilled.

painted lady
07-08-2009, 07:40 PM
if you ever need more recommendations, your DGD is in the demographic i plan to work with! :D

Sis
07-09-2009, 09:13 PM
All I can say is that my 16 yr old daughter, my 24 yr old daughter and I really loved the books. I liked the fact that there was nothing in the books that I had to worry about being explicit. It also opened up a lot of conversations between my 16 yr old and myself, especially as far as Bella being consumed with Edward and how it really wasn't healthy to be that single minded. I would read the series again and I know my dd's have.

Hun.e.B
07-10-2009, 05:48 PM
The Twilight series are crap. I have my BA in English Literature, and let me tell you, those books are just utter crap. I wouldn't let my daughter read them simply because it's an over-wrought melodramatic story that glorifies a psychotic relationship and abstinence. It's so poorly written. The relationship between Bella and Edward is so distorted and the girls reading these books sees him as an ideal mate.

The problem I have is that Edward is the only thing that's important to Bella. I have a life outside of my boyfriend, but she barely does and she neglects her friends for a guy, who stalks her while she's sleeping. And the creepiest thing of all: He wants to kill her and eat her.

Read this article: it's a feminist perspective on the books (and they talk about all of the books, so spoilers abound) and talks about how Meyer glorifies abstinence and basically creates a new genre: abstinence porn. And the only reason why he doesn't want to have sex (at all) is because he's afraid of killing her. What a great message that is! Sex can literally kill you! The only reason why the agree to wait until marriage is because Bella bribes him and basically says that she'll marry him only if he agrees to have sex with her.

http://*****magazine.org/article/bite-me-or-dont

And don't get me wrong, I read the series twice. And I do not and will not recommend it to anyone.

if you want to read a romance, read Pride and Prejudice. Something with actual literary merit.


EDIT: Stupid censoring. The website is www.b itch magazine.org/article/bite-me-or-dont

Your post kinda cracks me up, no offense but why would you read past the first book much less the whole series..much less TWICE if its such crap. Now I'll admit its not the best writing, to me the biggest problem was editing, but the stories are amazing. What Stephanie needs is a new editor! That so called "crap" has sold millions and millions and millions of copies to both teens and adults, been on the best sellers list for how long? And is good enough to have people clamoring over themselves to make the books into movies.

Now I respect that you dont like it but c'mon....if it truly were "crap" it wouldnt be the sensation it is. The books were written for teens and for entertainment, its hard to put an adult perspective on a teenage world. This is romance genre, its not really supposed to be about learning a lesson and being true to life, thats why its fiction.

I hated vampires till I read the Twilight series. That darn Stephanie Meyers got me addicted!

techwife
07-10-2009, 06:02 PM
I don't understand why its horrible to encourage abstinence? I realize in this day in age its unrealistic, but I don't see any harm in encouraging it.

As for the series of books, please don't make us all feel like we are uncultured boobs because we liked it. Sure, we don't have a doctorate in literature and obviously have an uneducated opinion on writing, but this series got millions of girls reading that would have maybe been watching tv or texting otherwise. Whether it is perfect literature is irrelevant, people were reading and being entertained and that is all that matters.

Just because you didn't like it doesn't make it crap. Its just not your taste or style of reading.

babenwaiting
07-10-2009, 07:55 PM
Hey there techie ... are we missing hockey or WHAT???????? :o For a short while there, I thought we were losing La Rose, and about had a hissy fit!!!

How old was your daughter when she read *Twilight*, and has she read the other three now?

painted lady
07-10-2009, 08:23 PM
i just don't like the Mormon angle (Stephenie Meyer is Mormon and she gave a lot of the profits to pro-Prop 8 organizations). i haven't read the books, but i plan to.

here's why some people read books they don't like/can't stand: they feel obligated to. i don't know what the other poster's rationale for reading all of them was, but mine is professional. i am going to be a librarian who works with teenagers. i need to stay current on what teens are reading, and i don't like recommending books (or warning against) books that i haven't personally read. even if i don't like the Twilight series, i will probably read the whole thing because i feel like i have to in order to do a good job.

and guys, i am one of the biggest proponents EVER of popular literature. if it gets teenagers reading, all the better. i just don't want to hand kids something that makes them feel bad about having sex (if they are having it), since it's a natural, normal thing to want to do when you are a teen.

abstinence is fine. abstinence-only sex ed is not. /soapbox.

babenwaiting
07-10-2009, 08:39 PM
painted lady, you say,

"i just don't want to hand kids something that makes them feel bad about having sex (if they are having it), since it's a natural, normal thing to want to do when you are a teen."

YIKES! Maybe I'm the only old fuddyduddy on the Board ... I WOULD want the young teens in my family to feel bad about having sex at a young age. :( I know too many who's lives have been altered for the worst because nobody gave them the impression that sex in their teens was a BAD idea.

Michelle1210
07-10-2009, 08:51 PM
yeah, the author of Twilight is Mormon, so there's a lot of Christian overtones in those books. and it's why i won't buy them. she gave a ton of money to pro-Proposition 8 organizations with the profits!What is wrong with giving profits to an organization that you support, people do it all the time. I wouldn't want someone to tell me who to give or not give. That would be a bit narrow minded don't you think?
You support your groups and Stephine should be able to support hers. you can disagree I can disagree, The OP had a question about the books not a political affiliation.

MarySnidget
07-11-2009, 10:08 AM
It's just a book, I read the first one when it first came out and thought it was OK...I read all of them when I first heard about the movie and still think they are OK, my best friend is OBSESSED with the characters, that get a little annoying because it's all she talks about; but it's her thing and I don't complain much. My issue with the whole thing is the movie...people are getting upset that the movie is nothing like the book and blah blah blah...plus all the gossip. But with movies, that's going to happen, look at Harry Potter or the Da Vinci Code, while they are mostly true to the story, things are missing. My personal opinion, get over it; it's an adaptation.

The book is focused for the teen perspective, if you read too much into it, your going to hate it. Like my opinion; Bella is way to whiny, but I enjoyed it for what it was. For the movie, I thought some of the acting was really bad, but I still enjoyed it for a movie, though most of the audience when I went ruined it a little because all the kids where talking throughout the movie.

As for the author's choice of religion and what she want's to support, who cares, it's not like she out there parading it in your face like some of the extremists. She doesn't parade her beliefs in the book either, and the whole wait to have sex...I think that is brilliant...with everything involved in the media and on TV its no wonder why kids are having sex younger and younger. Plus the whole peer pressure thing doesn't help either. People really shouldn't judge books by their covers. I had a friend who refused to watch Ginger Snaps because a couple of lesbian friends where big fans of it, she wouldn't watch it because of their sexual preference and it was something they liked, she would be completely nice to them and then bad mouth them; just because they where lesbians. She came over while it was on TV and she ended up watching it and liking it and while it changed her opinion completely about the movie, she still continued to complain about it when ever my friends where around. Hence why I ended the friendship...I couldn't stand how she would parade about the "evils" of being homosexual (I even told her to refrain from making comments and such in my presences because, I didn't approve, they where my friends), making inappropriate comments then act like she has no issue with homosexuality when she would be around my friends.

painted lady
07-11-2009, 10:16 AM
if teenagers are given the tools and resources to have safe sex, then they reduce their chances of "altering" their lives. condoms, frank conversations, and comprehensive sex education that doesn't induce guilt in teenagers can do this. of course sex has risks, but if teenagers accept those risks and know they have to deal with the consequences, i don't see any problem in them having it.

yes, Stephenie Meyer can give money to whatever political organization she wants. i never said she couldn't. however, i was an adamant opposer to Prop 8 because i am a supporter of gay rights. i will read Twilight, i just won't buy the books.

i think knowing an author's political or religious tendencies can help someone read a book more thoroughly. knowing that Stephenie Meyer is Mormon, or that Gene Yang (who wrote American Born Chinese) is Catholic, or that Stephen King believes in God but not religion, can make those reading experiences more worthwhile.

the OP also mentioned the appropriateness of Twilight for a twelve-year-old, and someone else said that it had themes of abstinence... so i think bringing the author's personal convictions into it is totally acceptable.

if i wrote a book and someone didn't want to buy it because i give money to the Gay, Lesbian, and Straight Education Network, i would understand. i would disagree, but i would understand.

kiramira
07-11-2009, 11:15 AM
I ABSOLUTELY won't go to movies that have specific actors in them because I think these actors are nutbars and believe and financially support issues that I disagree with. I refuse to give my hard-earned cash over to someone who will in turn use it for projects/institutitions/philosophies that I disagree with. I won't support the middleman, who is the actor, in this case.

I have the right to do so, because HECK it IS my money!

As for teens/sex, well I think we all need to get realistic here. Society has changed radically and to "just say no" is a great philosophy but CLEARLY isn't followed by the majority of teens. You can preach, but they will do what they want to do even if you teach them to do other things. So the key is to make sure that IF they are going to do something that you disagree with, at LEAST it can be done without being "reckless"...if a teen goes to a party and drinks and knows you don't want them to and it is against the law and blah blah blah, do you want them to conceal this and to try to drive themselves home while impaired? Or do you want them to have an available alternative that keeps them and the rest of us safe? Because at that point, the horse is out of the barn and preaching "just say no" is really of no help in keeping them safe...

Kira

NicoleNYC
07-11-2009, 11:31 AM
I read the series because everyone is talking about it and I wanted to know why. I'm no lit snob, I've read and enjoyed my share of fluff, but these books are poorly written and the Edward/Bella relationship is awful.

I DO NOT like anything that feeds teenaged girls more bad info about relationships. It's not "reading into" anything - that's what the whole series is ABOUT. He knows what's best for her, he stalks her, he constantly tells her what to do and how to be because she's just a silly, emotional girl. EVERYTHING about her is wrong to him - even what/how she drives. She would do anything for him, give up her family, give up her education, give up her LIFE. And they're kids! If your friend or daughter was in a relationship with a guy like this, you'd call it abuse...but it's all ok because he doesn't want to have sex with her (he even gets to call the shots on that).

I wouldn't NOT let my daughter read it when she's old enough but we would have to talk about it a LOT. Young girls already have enough stupid ideas about boys and relationships, I don't think we need to feed that.

Just remembered - red her new book that's not part of the Twilight series (Host? I think) on the rec of a friend and I really enjoyed it. It sort of makes me think that Stephanie Meyer is a kind of marketing genius. As an adult, I think boys who want to tell you what to do and watch you sleep are creepy and weird, as a teenage girl, the idea of a protector and provider would have really appealed. What teenage girl doesn't hope the goodlooking moody boy (who also happens to be brilliant, wealthy, and more experienced) will really get how special you are.

painted lady
07-11-2009, 04:18 PM
kiramira, you rock.

NicoleNYC, i totally agree with you. the relationship between Bella and Edward is super messed up and not good for teens to emulate.

mom2cole
07-12-2009, 09:59 PM
I have read all of the books, along with my sister, mom and step-dad. Yes, my step dad read them all! Come on, it is fiction, a story and the author did a great job of drawing you in and keeping you hooked with all 4 of the books. The whole Bella/Edward thing works. She is a young, naive teen. He is a 100 year old vampire who is well aware of all of the dangers in the world, even the dangers her best friend Jacob presents. Edward is so drawn to Bella and loves her that he would do anything to protect her from the world. He would rather not turn her into a vampire. I don't see what is wrong with finding a guy that wants to not have sex with you because it is dangerous, protect you from harm, and give you anything in life you want. Heck of a lot better than the horny teenage boys roaming the high school halls.

sunflowergirl68
07-13-2009, 01:10 AM
Your post kinda cracks me up, no offense but why would you read past the first book much less the whole series..much less TWICE if its such crap. Now I'll admit its not the best writing, to me the biggest problem was editing, but the stories are amazing. What Stephanie needs is a new editor! That so called "crap" has sold millions and millions and millions of copies to both teens and adults, been on the best sellers list for how long? And is good enough to have people clamoring over themselves to make the books into movies.

Now I respect that you dont like it but c'mon....if it truly were "crap" it wouldnt be the sensation it is. The books were written for teens and for entertainment, its hard to put an adult perspective on a teenage world. This is romance genre, its not really supposed to be about learning a lesson and being true to life, thats why its fiction.

I hated vampires till I read the Twilight series. That darn Stephanie Meyers got me addicted!

It's like crack, that's why.

And it's only sold millions of books because most pre-teen and teenage girls don't know what good writing is, and because Edward is sooooo dreamy. It's a fantasy that teenage girls want. I read them twice because I wanted to know why I liked them the first time around and was pretty disgusted with myself after finishing the last one.

yes, she did need a better editor, but a good editor can't make you a good writer (I'm an editor). She's a poor writer and shouldn't have gotten published in the first place or they should have sent her back and had her fix her manuscript.

sunflowergirl68
07-13-2009, 01:14 AM
I don't understand why its horrible to encourage abstinence? I realize in this day in age its unrealistic, but I don't see any harm in encouraging it.

As for the series of books, please don't make us all feel like we are uncultured boobs because we liked it. Sure, we don't have a doctorate in literature and obviously have an uneducated opinion on writing, but this series got millions of girls reading that would have maybe been watching tv or texting otherwise. Whether it is perfect literature is irrelevant, people were reading and being entertained and that is all that matters.

Just because you didn't like it doesn't make it crap. Its just not your taste or style of reading.

It's not crap because I didn't like it, Meyer is a poor writer who relies heavily on adjectives and uses them over and over.

And I don't think that her version of abstinence is a good message to send across. Bella wants to have sex but Edward won't, and only will after they get married. He bribes her into marrying him.

Read the article I linked to from B itch magazine. It's from a feminist perspective. And i don't think that books like Twilight are good for teenage girls to read because the relationships portrayed are so distorted and it gives a bad idea of what a relationship is actually like. And let's face it, pre-teen and teenage girls aren't the most sensible people, I would know, I was one.

Yes, I am a book snob but only because I respect them. I don't think that people who like Twilight are idiots or anything like that.... only that they deserve to read better. Books with actual substance.

sunflowergirl68
07-13-2009, 01:15 AM
i just don't like the Mormon angle (Stephenie Meyer is Mormon and she gave a lot of the profits to pro-Prop 8 organizations). i haven't read the books, but i plan to.

here's why some people read books they don't like/can't stand: they feel obligated to. i don't know what the other poster's rationale for reading all of them was, but mine is professional. i am going to be a librarian who works with teenagers. i need to stay current on what teens are reading, and i don't like recommending books (or warning against) books that i haven't personally read. even if i don't like the Twilight series, i will probably read the whole thing because i feel like i have to in order to do a good job.

and guys, i am one of the biggest proponents EVER of popular literature. if it gets teenagers reading, all the better. i just don't want to hand kids something that makes them feel bad about having sex (if they are having it), since it's a natural, normal thing to want to do when you are a teen.

abstinence is fine. abstinence-only sex ed is not. /soapbox.

I read them partly because I plan on going into publishing, because my friend recommended them, and because I worked at a book store and every other teen girl who came in bought them. I was curious.

Hun.e.B
07-13-2009, 08:57 PM
It's like crack, that's why.

And it's only sold millions of books because most pre-teen and teenage girls don't know what good writing is, and because Edward is sooooo dreamy.

I respectfully disagree, it sold millions of copies because its a fantastic story. I loved it, my mother loved it, my stepmother loved it, all my coworkers and friends have loved it. No preteens/teenagers there. In fact I had to literally beg my teen to read it! Once she did she liked them, but didnt get past Eclipse, she got bored. So I suppose its all a matter of opinion but IMO Stephanie Meyer did a wonderful job with her story. She never claimed to be a literary genius she was just someone with a story in her head, I can admire that. That might also be another of its draws, its simple. I for one am thrilled that it got published and I got the opportunity to read it. There has been some amazing fanfic that has come from it as well. Perhaps the real issue is trying to make a literary masterpiece out of an entertaining story.

sunflowergirl68
07-15-2009, 02:55 AM
It's not that great of a story. It's totally generic and the same formula of any romance novel. Girl meets boy, love is forbidden, boy leaves girl. And then a love triangle ensues, boys fight over said girl. Girl chooses. And everyone is happy at the end! And don't forget the vampires who *sparkle.* Probably one of the dumbest things I've ever read in a book.

It's mindless entertainment that's poorly written and also gives an unrealistic and dangerous portrayal of a relationship. Just because so many people liked it doesn't mean it's a good series. Harry Potter is a excellent series. Twilight is mediocre at best.

painted lady
07-15-2009, 09:56 PM
yeah, i think i have more of a problem with the sparkling vampires than the quality of the novel. i love horror, and in general, vampires don't sparkle, nor can they BE IN THE SUN.

pintobean
07-16-2009, 12:59 PM
I'm really enjoying reading everyone's views here :D. I know people who refuse to read the series and people who absolutely love it. It's a personal choice and of course, I respect that.

I read them partly because I plan on going into publishing, because my friend recommended them, and because I worked at a book store and every other teen girl who came in bought them. I was curious.

Bottome Line: I still wouldn't have read any series or books *twice* if I hated everything about it ;). In fact, I would have barely made it past the first one.

...yeah, i think i have more of a problem with the sparkling vampires..

This series is supposed to be fiction. Vampires sparkling is her version of how a vampire is supposed to be. Vampires are fictionional characters unless of course, you've read about or *met* J.R.Ward's brothers :lol: . In fact, if you pick up any vampire novel every author has brought in their own version of what a vampire looks like, feeds on, behaves etc. When I decided to read the series, for me, it was pure entertainment, fluff, girl-meets-boy formula...call it whatever you want...I never expected it to be a literary masterpiece.

It's mindless entertainment

Exactly! It's not supposed to be a literary masterpiece. Read it at face value for what it is supposed to be. A work of fiction.

As for abstinence, I think there's nothing right or wrong about it. To me, it's a personal preference. Coming from her background I'm not surprised she portrayed that in her book. Healthy or unhealthy depends on your perspective.

...And i don't think that books like Twilight are good for teenage girls to read because the relationships portrayed are so distorted and it gives a bad idea of what a relationship is actually like.

I guess, that's where family values and togetherness comes in. For example, another member posted that reading these books helped open up a two-way conversation path between her and her daughter. I'm sure with a healthy conversation/discussion with your teen and explaining what is good or bad is a good way to avoid distorted visions about *anything* in life. Plus, take a look around, it's not just teens but so many adults out there (with their *so called* knowledge) who knowingly end up in a *bad* relationship.

...Yes, I am a book snob but only because I respect them. I don't think that people who like Twilight are idiots or anything like that.... only that they deserve to read better. Books with actual substance...

Well, honestly, I think you're just a snob ;). I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you...just having a BA in Eng Lit does not make anyone a literary aficianado. I know people (without an Eng Lit degree) who are exceptionally well read & articulate and still enjoy reading *fluff* like Twilight or any other series for that matter. And, as for the readers of Twilight deserve to read better books...well, we really can't say, can we? that they haven't read better books, books with substance!

...It's not that great of a story. It's totally generic and the same formula of any romance novel. Girl meets boy, love is forbidden, boy leaves girl. And then a love triangle ensues, boys fight over said girl. Girl chooses. And everyone is happy at the end! And don't forget the vampires who *sparkle.* Probably one of the dumbest things I've ever read in a book...

Yet, you read it twice! :p

...Harry Potter is a excellent series...

Yes, I do agree with you there. I love the HP series. But, I would not compare it with Twilight.

painted lady
07-16-2009, 01:49 PM
yes, every author who writes something about vampires does it differently, but there are some inherent vampire characteristics that don't change: they drink blood. they cannot go into the sun. they can be killed by decapitation, sunlight, or a wooden stake through the heart.

i know it wasn't supposed to be "horror," but sparkly vampires make me squidgy.

Hun.e.B
07-16-2009, 04:24 PM
It's not that great of a story. It's totally generic and the same formula of any romance novel. Girl meets boy, love is forbidden, boy leaves girl. And then a love triangle ensues, boys fight over said girl. Girl chooses. And everyone is happy at the end! And don't forget the vampires who *sparkle.* Probably one of the dumbest things I've ever read in a book.

It's mindless entertainment that's poorly written and also gives an unrealistic and dangerous portrayal of a relationship. Just because so many people liked it doesn't mean it's a good series. Harry Potter is a excellent series. Twilight is mediocre at best.

I guess you arent understanding the idea of what a story is. So if may follow a "romance genre" guideline of boy meets girl, love is forbidden, boy leaves girl. ..... But its HOW those things happen that makes a story. Your arguement really lacks substance because you talk about how horrible, terrible and dumb it is and yet you've still read it twice.

"Just because so many people liked it doesn't mean it's a good series. "<<< this comment in particular makes no sense. You've said it yourself "SO MANY" people absolutely adore this series, if its not good then what? "So many" people are just ignorant and only read and reread books that are crap? I have yet to finish a book I thought was crap, if I dont like it I stop reading it.

As far as the sparkling vampire being so dumb and it being an unrealistic relationship, lets not forget that vampires aren't real...so none of it is realistic! Its just a story for entertainment. If you dont like it, dont read it.

I understand that you dont like it, thats totally fine you are entitled to your opinion, but at some point you've got to look at the proof, its a great story and a great series. Just because you are so adverse to it doesnt make it crap, its just not your cup of tea. Millions of readers and movie goers cant be that wrong.

Sis
07-18-2009, 09:27 AM
Well, all I can say is that I and my DD enjoyed these books and the discussions they inspired, very much, and regardless of how well written they are they have certainly captivated MANY readers and seem to have inspired quite a lively discussion on this thread. :)
Enjoy your week end everyone.

sunflowergirl68
07-18-2009, 05:25 PM
@Hun.e.B:

I have my BA in English Literature. I read books and wrote papers for my degree... so needless to say, I know what the purpose of a story is.

My problem, like I said above, is that the relationship is abusive and is upheld as ideal by Meyer.

And yes, it does make sense that just because a lot of people love it doesn't mean that it's a good series. A lot of people like crap. Like Dan Brown. Most people don't know what good literature is. Most people haven't read Thomas Mann or Gunter Grass or Toni Morrison or Faulkner.

And like I said above, I only read it twice because I wanted to know why I liked it the first time around, and on my second reading, hated it. It was one of those "What was I thinking?" moments.

And me and you might realize that it's fiction, but teenage girls are, let's be honest, quite stupid when it comes to relationships. They might take it and want something like that. That's my main problem, and also, people going on and on how good they are, and they're not. People will forget about them in 10 or so years, while people will continue to read writers like Faulkner and Mann for decades and decades and centuries to come.

sunflowergirl68
07-18-2009, 05:39 PM
FYI, I said this before like three times, I didn't hate it the first time around. Then I started reading criticisms about it like the article in B*tch, so I decided to read it again and see why I liked it the first time around, and paid attention. And the more I paid attention to what she wrote, the more I hated it.

And I think that the sparkly part is stupid. She only chose to make her vampires sparkle because it was in her dream. Not because she wanted to create a new kind of vampire genre or do a new twist.

Young Adult books can be excellent. Look at Harry Potter. I think teenagers deserve better than what Meyer writes.

as for abstinence, sure, but you have to look at it from the perspective of the book. The only reason he won't have sex with her because he thinks he'll kill her. So she bribes him into sleeping with her. The only reason why she agrees to marry him (she's against marriage, remember) is so she can have sex. That's my problem with it.

Another problem is that she portrays an unhealthy relationship as ideal.


If you want to sit there and tell me my comments aren't legitimate and that I don't know good literature (and good popular fiction) despite having a degree in English Literature, fine. I know what a good book is. Twilight will not be remembered in 10 years or so. One of the marks of a great book is longevity, something that Twilight does not have, and nor does Meyer as a writer. It's a fad and it'll fizzle out.

Hun.e.B
07-18-2009, 09:28 PM
@Hun.e.B:

I have my BA in English Literature. I read books and wrote papers for my degree... so needless to say, I know what the purpose of a story is.

My problem, like I said above, is that the relationship is abusive and is upheld as ideal by Meyer.

And yes, it does make sense that just because a lot of people love it doesn't mean that it's a good series. A lot of people like crap. Like Dan Brown. Most people don't know what good literature is. Most people haven't read Thomas Mann or Gunter Grass or Toni Morrison or Faulkner.

And like I said above, I only read it twice because I wanted to know why I liked it the first time around, and on my second reading, hated it. It was one of those "What was I thinking?" moments.

And me and you might realize that it's fiction, but teenage girls are, let's be honest, quite stupid when it comes to relationships. They might take it and want something like that. That's my main problem, and also, people going on and on how good they are, and they're not. People will forget about them in 10 or so years, while people will continue to read writers like Faulkner and Mann for decades and decades and centuries to come.

No offense but your degree doesnt impress me nor does it make you a literary mastermind. The last people I ever listen to on a review are critics who think because they've studied film or hundred year old literature they are somehow an expert on pop culture. I could throw my college degrees around as well (both of which I had to read books and write papers for) and where would that get us...nowhere because it all comes down to personal taste.

I also think you are underestimating teenage girls. I have a teenage daughter and I can assure you she is most certainly not stupid. I think you are forgetting its not just teenagers that love this series.

I can understand and respect that you dont like the series...fine, I'm good with that, that is your opinion. However, I draw the line at your insinuations that any of the millions of us that DO like the series are ignorant and poorly read. I find that highly offensive and insulting.

My opinion is that its a great story, great mindless entertainment, a great summer read that may be here today gone tomorrow but thats okay with me! Does every book have to be a Pride & Prejudice or Robinson Crusoe? I think not, and why do the haters take it too seriously and try and make it so?

Lets not forget how dangerous a relationship Romeo and Juliet had!

junebug41
07-19-2009, 01:32 PM
Lets not forget how dangerous a relationship Romeo and Juliet had!

I love this. LOVE THIS.

It reminds me of when people get up in arms about "the music today" and how violent or provocative they think it is. It absolutely is... in today's terms. Paganini was one of the greatest musicians and inspiring composers ever and people were convinced he had the devil right there in his fingertips. The Magic Flute by Mozart was regarded as the same (even today the story is a bit sensational!).

Perspective people, perspective.

I read Twilight and wasn't impressed, but then again I'm 27. I KNOW I would have been all over it as a teenager and even a preteen. If I had a daughter I would not care one way or the other if this is something she chose to read. One thing I am forever grateful for is that my parents NEVER censored anything I read or listened to. They figured that even though some (or a lot) of the music or books (and magazines) I read as a 13 year old were pop culture crap, I was smart enough to decipher the difference.

So yeah, I read a lot of really bad stuff and listened to even more bad stuff, but I was also reading Malcom X and listening to Debussy.

Perspective...

I don't know what college degrees have to do with pop culture either. I think people throwing Lit degrees into a discussion about a piece of pop culture is somehow correlating it's validity with that degree, when it's really not intended to be.

That's sort of like me using my music degree to defend Nickelback as great musicians (or not defend them).

painted lady
07-19-2009, 04:59 PM
please don't defend Nickelback. *barf*

i'm not trying to throw this in anyone's face, but i'm in school to become a librarian who works with teenagers. if teens want to read Twilight, they can read Twilight. teenagers are smarter than we give them credit for. my gripes with it are the sparkly vampires (they don't jive with me) and the pro-Prop 8 connection. teens WANT to read this and other "read-alikes" (if you liked Twilight, you'll like Vampire Academy, the Morganville Vampires, etc.).

and teens wanting to read is fine by me! (as long as i don't have to spend my own money to buy the books and give more money to Meyer.)

junebug41
07-19-2009, 06:26 PM
please don't defend Nickelback. *barf*

The point was to compare a musician who is not critically appreciated, but loved by the masses and/or popular culture, which I find to be similar to the Meyer series.

I don't care enough about Nickelback to debate their merit as musicians.

sunflowergirl68
07-19-2009, 09:46 PM
No offense but your degree doesnt impress me nor does it make you a literary mastermind. The last people I ever listen to on a review are critics who think because they've studied film or hundred year old literature they are somehow an expert on pop culture. I could throw my college degrees around as well (both of which I had to read books and write papers for) and where would that get us...nowhere because it all comes down to personal taste.

I also think you are underestimating teenage girls. I have a teenage daughter and I can assure you she is most certainly not stupid. I think you are forgetting its not just teenagers that love this series.

I can understand and respect that you dont like the series...fine, I'm good with that, that is your opinion. However, I draw the line at your insinuations that any of the millions of us that DO like the series are ignorant and poorly read. I find that highly offensive and insulting.

My opinion is that its a great story, great mindless entertainment, a great summer read that may be here today gone tomorrow but thats okay with me! Does every book have to be a Pride & Prejudice or Robinson Crusoe? I think not, and why do the haters take it too seriously and try and make it so?

Lets not forget how dangerous a relationship Romeo and Juliet had!


And if you knew **** about Shakespeare you'd know that the story wasn't originally his, and he makes a point in the Prince's speech that it was a senseless tragedy. Anyone who actually read Romeo and Juliet knows that they were being rash teenagers who knew each other for less than a week before killing themselves, and that it isn't romantic, and isn't supposed to be romantic and is a tragedy

I said teenage girls are stupid about RELATIONSHIPS. I was one 10 years ago. I know what I'm talking about because I was stupid about the "relationships'" I was in.

And yes, anyone who thinks that Twilight is a good series is ignorant and poorly read.

sunflowergirl68
07-19-2009, 09:51 PM
I love this. LOVE THIS.

It reminds me of when people get up in arms about "the music today" and how violent or provocative they think it is. It absolutely is... in today's terms. Paganini was one of the greatest musicians and inspiring composers ever and people were convinced he had the devil right there in his fingertips. The Magic Flute by Mozart was regarded as the same (even today the story is a bit sensational!).

Perspective people, perspective.

I read Twilight and wasn't impressed, but then again I'm 27. I KNOW I would have been all over it as a teenager and even a preteen. If I had a daughter I would not care one way or the other if this is something she chose to read. One thing I am forever grateful for is that my parents NEVER censored anything I read or listened to. They figured that even though some (or a lot) of the music or books (and magazines) I read as a 13 year old were pop culture crap, I was smart enough to decipher the difference.

So yeah, I read a lot of really bad stuff and listened to even more bad stuff, but I was also reading Malcom X and listening to Debussy.

Perspective...

I don't know what college degrees have to do with pop culture either. I think people throwing Lit degrees into a discussion about a piece of pop culture is somehow correlating it's validity with that degree, when it's really not intended to be.

That's sort of like me using my music degree to defend Nickelback as great musicians (or not defend them).

And like I said five ****ing times, I'm going into publishing. So I HAVE to know what people are reading and what is being published if I want to be good at my job. And I also want to make sure not to publish crap. Meyer had a horrible editor (on top of being a horrible writer) so it's my job to prepare not to let that happen.

And yes, my degree in literature has a lot to do with popular culture, since I also did editing and publishing.

And of course if you have a degree in music, you know more than the average person about music, and you know what good music is and what ****ty music is.


I want teenagers to have better. I was reading Toni Morrison when I was in high school. They should be reading GOOD literature, not ****. Reading crap like that only makes you stupider when you're young.

painted lady
07-19-2009, 10:11 PM
The point was to compare a musician who is not critically appreciated, but loved by the masses and/or popular culture, which I find to be similar to the Meyer series.

I don't care enough about Nickelback to debate their merit as musicians.

heh, i was kidding. Nickelback drives me insane, but they aren't really on my music radar.


i wouldn't go as far as to say that anyone who reads Twilight and likes it is ignorant and poorly read. that's judgmental and mean. i was a huge Lurlene McDaniel fan when i was a teenager (especially Don't Die, My Love), and i am not ignorant, nor poorly read. i hate the concept of "classics," too. most of the classics i have read did not grab my attention or make me want to read more. since i am going to work with teenagers, i need to make sure i keep up with current trends in teen literature; right now, one of those trends is supernatural/horror-tinged romance. i'm not going to judge teenage girls because they love these books.

and as far as teenagers being stupid about relationships, i would say that teenagers are teenagers about relationships. stupidity has nothing to do with it; it's a developmental stage and their emotions are just as valid as an adult's.

junebug41
07-19-2009, 10:30 PM
and as far as teenagers being stupid about relationships, i would say that teenagers are teenagers about relationships. stupidity has nothing to do with it; it's a developmental stage and their emotions are just as valid as an adult's.

Absolutely true.

JasonsLea
07-19-2009, 10:58 PM
I've read the series and I like it. I hate Edward though. And I hate Bella when she's with him. To me, Twilight is just a fluff read. No real depth, more like a fairytale. There's nothing wrong with enjoying books like that. Stephanie Meyers is no Anne Rice or Diana Palmer, for sure.

cfmama
07-20-2009, 02:49 AM
All books are valuable. Some might be better than others but whatever books get people READING are valuable.

For the record... those words are from my husband who is actually a librarian. A teen librarian. YOU may think that they are crap but they have their worth. If you are going to become a librarian you need to get OVER your bias about certain books/authors.

painted lady
07-20-2009, 09:41 AM
uhh, i never said i was biased against Twilight. i haven't read them yet. i don't want to purchase them personally because i don't like Stephenie Meyer's politics. and i know plenty of librarians who think Stephen King (my favorite author, and not in the running for "classy writer") is trashy and terrible.

i also think i said about seventeen times that i think it's great that teens are actually reading. Stephen Krashen, a librarian and reading theorist, did a study that concluded that it does not matter what kids/teens are reading, as long as they are reading a lot. it helps them get into the habit of reading for fun, and that will stay with them for the rest of their lives. i agree with Krashen 100%.

also keep in mind that i was not the one on this thread who was outwardly bashing Twilight. i am allowed to think that sparkly vampires are anomalous in the horror genre, and therefore silly.

and i never said they were crap. :D

MindiV
07-20-2009, 10:17 AM
And yes, anyone who thinks that Twilight is a good series is ignorant and poorly read.


Well, then I'm ignorant and poorly read. I've got a BA in journalism and minored in English, and have been a successful newspaper editor for 10 years (I'm only 28).

So is my sister, who's got a master's degree in English and is a teacher. Darn all of us ignorant people.

cfmama
07-20-2009, 11:04 AM
Well, then I'm ignorant and poorly read. I've got a BA in journalism and minored in English, and have been a successful newspaper editor for 10 years (I'm only 28).

So is my sister, who's got a master's degree in English and is a teacher. Darn all of us ignorant people.

I was thinking the same thing. I've got my BA in Criminology and my husband who has his Masters in Library and Information Sciences both enjoy them. And the two of us are really the best read of anyone that I know.

pintobean
07-20-2009, 02:24 PM
...
First, there's really no need to cuss in this thread. I don't know about you but we're all adults here and completely capable of discussing different POVs without resulting to crudeness. I could resort to your level, but then again I don't know what that would be, I don't *have* to read any series *twice* to come to the conclusion why I liked (or in your case disliked) the series. ;)

Having said that, nobody objected to *why* you read the series to begin with. Of course, curiousity gets the better of us. I read Twilight cuz I was curious as well. The reason is neither important nor relevant here. It is a personal preference and last I checked, this is a free country, so everyone is free to read or not read the series they want and form their opinion. The whole issue is you calling *everyone* who read and liked the Twilight series a nincompoop (to put it simply).

You could be the queen of the damned or Timbuktu for all I care, but to call everyone who read the series 'ignorant and poorly read' is just pathetic and childish. I am sorry, but your degree in English does not impress me or the fact that you say you're well read :rolleyes:. Obviously, being both has not helped you one iota in coming up with a reasonable, rational explanation other than name calling and being judgemental towards everyone who read the books (which is funny coming from you as you read it twice :lol:). And, it seems, the said teenager hasn't grown up despite a college degree.

We're humans and of course, we will have different opinions about various issues. Otherwise, we'll be a bunch of robots. To be honest, one does not *need* to read a series multiple times to come to a conclusion as to *why* they liked or disliked the series. I've read many books and series and have formed my own opinion (fairly quickly) as to why I liked or disliked them. It is not rocket science! I love to hear different opinions as that's how so many conversations happen and you get to know one another. And just because another person's opinion differs from mine on a book does not make that person an idiot.

As for teenage girls being stupid, well, we all were teenagers at some point. Just because some teen was stupid in relationships does not make every teen a twit. Similarly, many teens have refused to read the series for whatever reasons. I respect that. I am not denying that teenagers are not rash in their judgement, of course they are. But it's like what another member said, it is a developmental stage and hormones play a very big part not to mention peer pressure. Some grow out of it and some don't. I'd rather they read books (fluff or books with substance) than not read at all.

Just to clear your insane view of thinking...having a degree in a specialized field - music, arts, english, computers etc. - does not make you an expert on the subject but to put it simply just well aware. Even then, it is not a guarantee. I know people with degrees in specialized fields who clearly have no clue about their respective subjects. I have a degree in Information Systems, I am certainly not better than anyone who doesn't have an IS degree. I may be more aware than others in my field but that's cuz I was provided with better tools than an average person. I know many people without a formal degree who are exceptionally bright in this field.

So, please, get down from your high horse and accept the fact that you really are *NOT* an expert or that talented. As you can see, other members (& many others) with English and other degrees have read the series too and have either liked it or disliked it for their own personal reasons. But none came out and said that not only are they better than others but they *know* more about books just cuz they have a degree. A degree in English has absolutely *nothing* to do with you being well read.

As I mentioned in my previous post, Stephanie Meyers never claimed her work to be a literary masterpiece. It is fiction. She simply is there to make money as every writer out there.

I really feel sorry for the future of our publishing firms.

cfmama
07-20-2009, 03:05 PM
Brava Pintobean. Brava!!!!!!

Hun.e.B
07-20-2009, 07:25 PM
All books are valuable. Some might be better than others but whatever books get people READING are valuable.



AMEN to that!!!


i also think i said about seventeen times that i think it's great that teens are actually reading. Stephen Krashen, a librarian and reading theorist, did a study that concluded that it does not matter what kids/teens are reading, as long as they are reading a lot. it helps them get into the habit of reading for fun, and that will stay with them for the rest of their lives. i agree with Krashen 100%.

I am allowed to think that sparkly vampires are anomalous in the horror genre, and therefore silly.



I agree 100% too!!! and you are absolutely allowed to think sparkly vampires are silly! Myself...I went and got dazzled! LOL!


Perspective people, perspective.



Now there is an intelligent and articulate arguement! Thank you!! I couldnt agree more!


i wouldn't go as far as to say that anyone who reads Twilight and likes it is ignorant and poorly read.

and as far as teenagers being stupid about relationships, i would say that teenagers are teenagers about relationships. stupidity has nothing to do with it; it's a developmental stage and their emotions are just as valid as an adult's.

I always tell my girls that when people have to resort to calling names and degrading people they are just showing their lack of intelligence, I equate it to the frustrated 4 year old calling their older sibling a stupid head because they dont have the mental capacity to form a valid arguement, nuff said on that!

You seem to have a great grasp on teen thinking so far! You are absolutely right how teens think and feel isnt wrong, its what they know at that time in their lives.

kiramira
07-20-2009, 08:08 PM
Good heavens! Quite the thread! Personally, I would have thought a BA English would be able to find words other than the four lettered variety to make a point, but what do I know? My degrees were in other areas...

Why oh WHY must every book be out there be SIGNIFICANT and IMPORTANT and "good literature"? Where is the simple FUN in reading! Heck, I grew up on Nancy Drew (crap literature!), Judy Blume (Are you there God? It's Me, Margaret!) and other such literary crap. But at least I was READING and not in front of an X Box 24-7. I was learning to use my imagination, learn sentence and grammar construction, the theme of a book, and so on. It doesn't have to be War and Peace in order to be of value!!!
And heck, I managed to get 3 University degrees without too much difficulty! Nancy Drew not withstanding...

Lighten up! Relax! Pick up a trashy novel, get over yourself, and just ENJOY...

Kira

junebug41
07-20-2009, 10:01 PM
And of course if you have a degree in music, you know more than the average person about music, and you know what good music is and what ****ty music is.

I know no more about "good music" than I do about performing bariatric surgery. In the words of Dave Matthews (who some people just can't stand but I happen to adore), "good music is good music and the rest can go to h*ll".

I feel like you have absolutely no regard for subjectivity when that's all that pop culture is about.

Good luck in publishing.

junebug41
07-20-2009, 10:04 PM
Lighten up! Relax! Pick up a trashy novel, get over yourself, and just ENJOY...

Kira

Exactly! Why SHOULDN'T reading be fun?

If some cheesy love story about sparkling vampires inspires people to pick upa book then I'm all for it.

painted lady
07-20-2009, 10:25 PM
case in point, i just started reading Dead Until Dark, by Charlaine Harris, and i LOVE it so far. i think i am a vampire elitist because i am obsessed with Buffy, though, so any vamp behavior that doesn't conform to the Buffyverse weirds me out.

i also love Southern fiction, and this is hitting my reading spot.

cfmama
07-21-2009, 12:06 AM
case in point, i just started reading Dead Until Dark, by Charlaine Harris, and i LOVE it so far. i think i am a vampire elitist because i am obsessed with Buffy, though, so any vamp behavior that doesn't conform to the Buffyverse weirds me out.

i also love Southern fiction, and this is hitting my reading spot.

I'm on the fourth book in that series "Dead to the World" and I LOVE LOVE LOVE it. Trash at it's best.

painted lady
07-21-2009, 12:12 AM
i'm done with all the reading for my summer class. this is my treat. it is like candy.

also like candy (and critically acclaimed!): Blood and Chocolate, by Annette Curtis Klause. werewolves and teen angst. slick, sexy, fantastic.

cfmama
07-21-2009, 12:28 AM
Blood and Chocolate = INSANE AMOUNT OF WIN

Have you read the Night Inside by Nancy Baker? I think there are two or three vampire novels written by her. She's a Canadian author and her books just rock. You should give them a read. Just checked with hubby and the other two are Blood and Chrysanthemums and A Terrible Beauty.

cfmama
07-21-2009, 12:29 AM
Oh and I also got stuck on those "House of Night" novels that are geared towards teens. I ripped through the five of them that are out in a week. lol! Very angsty, but AWESOME.

JasonsLea
07-21-2009, 04:01 AM
i'm done with all the reading for my summer class. this is my treat. it is like candy.

also like candy (and critically acclaimed!): Blood and Chocolate, by Annette Curtis Klause. werewolves and teen angst. slick, sexy, fantastic.


Ooo, that sounds interesting!

pintobean
07-21-2009, 07:30 AM
I read #1 of the Dead Until Dark series and half of #2. I haven't gone back to them yet.

Have you guys read the Black Dagger Brotherhood (http://www.jrward.com/index-books.html) series by J.R.Ward? It's more towards the adult. Sexy and Saucy. Really good. Dark Lover is #1

I read the House of Night series and the only reason I am annoyed with the series is that there is just too much repetition. The authors repeat SO much in every book that it takes away from the story line.

The Night Huntress Series (http://www.jeanienefrost.com/) by Jeaniene Frost is also good and more towards adults.

pintobean
07-21-2009, 07:34 AM
I know no more about "good music" than I do about performing bariatric surgery. In the words of Dave Matthews (who some people just can't stand but I happen to adore), "good music is good music and the rest can go to h*ll".

I feel like you have absolutely no regard for subjectivity when that's all that pop culture is about...

Well said! :D

Little OT here...I saw your before and after pics...you look gorgeous in ALL the pictures.

painted lady
07-21-2009, 08:12 AM
dude, i love YA lit.

Hun.e.B
07-21-2009, 11:20 AM
I've read all the Sookie books!! Well except for the most recent and only because I'm obsessed with the J R Ward Black Dagger Brotherhood series!! I'm on my second read! I really enjoyed Sookie. Have you seen TrueBlood the HBO series based on the books? Good raunchy times!

ladybugnessa
07-21-2009, 11:35 AM
painted lady, you say,

"i just don't want to hand kids something that makes them feel bad about having sex (if they are having it), since it's a natural, normal thing to want to do when you are a teen."

YIKES! Maybe I'm the only old fuddyduddy on the Board ... I WOULD want the young teens in my family to feel bad about having sex at a young age. :( I know too many who's lives have been altered for the worst because nobody gave them the impression that sex in their teens was a BAD idea.


well young... yes 13 or 14 yes.

but let me tell you what those parents that teach abstinence are called:

GRANDPARENTS.

painted lady
07-21-2009, 02:12 PM
kudos, ladybugnessa! if teens are going to have sex, they might as well know how to do it safely.

i haven't seen any of True Blood yet because a) i don't have HBO (or Showtime?), and b) i wanted to read some of the books first. i really like Sookie's character. she's quirky and fun!

ladybugnessa
07-21-2009, 02:15 PM
kudos, ladybugnessa! if teens are going to have sex, they might as well know how to do it safely.

i haven't seen any of True Blood yet because a) i don't have HBO (or Showtime?), and b) i wanted to read some of the books first. i really like Sookie's character. she's quirky and fun!

I took my teen girl to the GYN six months ago and got her on the pill, then i showed her where we keep condoms....

yesterday at just over 17 she took herself to her GYN check up. I'm proud of her.

painted lady
07-21-2009, 02:16 PM
:)

sunflowergirl68
07-22-2009, 04:12 AM
all I am saying is, is that trashy, romance, whatever books are FINE if they're written well.

My only point was that Twilight and the series are very poorly written. They're not good books. Fantasy books, whatever books, are fine, as long as they're well-written. I never said that i expected it to be literature, only well-written. Which they're not.

I have other issues regarding the series (related to feminism and the whole "life is perfect" ending) but I think I've reiterated them enough.

sunflowergirl68
07-22-2009, 04:15 AM
Well, then I'm ignorant and poorly read. I've got a BA in journalism and minored in English, and have been a successful newspaper editor for 10 years (I'm only 28).

So is my sister, who's got a master's degree in English and is a teacher. Darn all of us ignorant people.

If you think it's well-written, then yes.

You can admit that it's poorly written and enjoy and I don't think you're ignorant.

sunflowergirl68
07-22-2009, 04:19 AM
I've read the series and I like it. I hate Edward though. And I hate Bella when she's with him. To me, Twilight is just a fluff read. No real depth, more like a fairytale. There's nothing wrong with enjoying books like that. Stephanie Meyers is no Anne Rice or Diana Palmer, for sure.



I didn't say that there's anything wrong with enjoying them. I said that there's something wrong with saying that they're a GOOD series and saying that they're well-written. ****, *I* enjoyed them. As long as you can admit they're poorly written, whatever. I can enjoy a poorly written book (dan brown anyone?)

But I agree with you. I hate Edward too. he's a stock character with zero depth, and Bella is the ultimate Mary Sue. I don't like that that kind of relationship is held up as ideal.

sunflowergirl68
07-22-2009, 04:22 AM
All books are valuable. Some might be better than others but whatever books get people READING are valuable.

For the record... those words are from my husband who is actually a librarian. A teen librarian. YOU may think that they are crap but they have their worth. If you are going to become a librarian you need to get OVER your bias about certain books/authors.

I don't think a book is valuable if it teaches teen girls about how abusive relationships are romantic and ideal.

I would like Meyer if she was a better writer.

sunflowergirl68
07-22-2009, 04:37 AM
First, there's really no need to cuss in this thread. I don't know about you but we're all adults here and completely capable of discussing different POVs without resulting to crudeness. I could resort to your level, but then again I don't know what that would be, I don't *have* to read any series *twice* to come to the conclusion why I liked (or in your case disliked) the series. ;)

And yet you personally try to insult me. You can be crude without swearing (which BTW, is bleeped out), as you have proved by insulting me directly.



Having said that, nobody objected to *why* you read the series to begin with. Of course, curiousity gets the better of us. I read Twilight cuz I was curious as well. The reason is neither important nor relevant here. It is a personal preference and last I checked, this is a free country, so everyone is free to read or not read the series they want and form their opinion. The whole issue is you calling *everyone* who read and liked the Twilight series a nincompoop (to put it simply).

No, I said anyone who said it was GOOD is poorly read and ignorant.


You could be the queen of the damned or Timbuktu for all I care, but to call everyone who read the series 'ignorant and poorly read' is just pathetic and childish. I am sorry, but your degree in English does not impress me or the fact that you say you're well read :rolleyes:. Obviously, being both has not helped you one iota in coming up with a reasonable, rational explanation other than name calling and being judgemental towards everyone who read the books (which is funny coming from you as you read it twice :lol:). And, it seems, the said teenager hasn't grown up despite a college degree.

yeah, I'm a 24-year-old teenager. I didn't resort to name-calling, you did. Speak for yourself regarding maturity.


We're humans and of course, we will have different opinions about various issues. Otherwise, we'll be a bunch of robots. To be honest, one does not *need* to read a series multiple times to come to a conclusion as to *why* they liked or disliked the series. I've read many books and series and have formed my own opinion (fairly quickly) as to why I liked or disliked them. It is not rocket science! I love to hear different opinions as that's how so many conversations happen and you get to know one another. And just because another person's opinion differs from mine on a book does not make that person an idiot.

Good for you. I could care less.


As for teenage girls being stupid, well, we all were teenagers at some point. Just because some teen was stupid in relationships does not make every teen a twit. Similarly, many teens have refused to read the series for whatever reasons. I respect that. I am not denying that teenagers are not rash in their judgement, of course they are. But it's like what another member said, it is a developmental stage and hormones play a very big part not to mention peer pressure. Some grow out of it and some don't. I'd rather they read books (fluff or books with substance) than not read at all.

yeah, I know, and I was stupid when I was a teenager. What is so offensive about that? Most people at 16 haven't experienced life. What offends you about that?

Ok, so just because hormones are there doesn't make teen girls any less stupid when it comes to boys.


Just to clear your insane view of thinking...having a degree in a specialized field - music, arts, english, computers etc. - does not make you an expert on the subject but to put it simply just well aware. Even then, it is not a guarantee. I know people with degrees in specialized fields who clearly have no clue about their respective subjects. I have a degree in Information Systems, I am certainly not better than anyone who doesn't have an IS degree. I may be more aware than others in my field but that's cuz I was provided with better tools than an average person. I know many people without a formal degree who are exceptionally bright in this field.

And it doesn't appear to be anyone on this board.


So, please, get down from your high horse and accept the fact that you really are *NOT* an expert or that talented. As you can see, other members (& many others) with English and other degrees have read the series too and have either liked it or disliked it for their own personal reasons. But none came out and said that not only are they better than others but they *know* more about books just cuz they have a degree. A degree in English has absolutely *nothing* to do with you being well read.

And you have the nerve to lecture me. You don't know me. So how dare you say that I am not talented. That's just a low blow to make yourself feel better.

I never said I am better than anyone, only that I know good books from bad ones, what constitutes as good writing and what doesn't.

But if you want to continue to personally insult me, go ahead. Shows how mature you are.

And yes, I DO know more about books because of my degree, just like doctors know more about medicine because of their degree.

As I mentioned in my previous post, Stephanie Meyers never claimed her work to be a literary masterpiece. It is fiction. She simply is there to make money as every writer out there.

I never said she did, only said that she's a ****ty writer. Saying that it's fiction doesn't give you an excuse to be a ****ty writer.

And if she's out there to just make money, then she's even more of a ****ty writer than I imagined. The worst writers and the ones who are in it just to make money.

I really feel sorry for the future of our publishing firms. [/COLOR]

Once again with the insults, and you have the nerve to call *me* immature? Pot, meet kettle.

sunflowergirl68
07-22-2009, 04:47 AM
I'm sitting here wondering why in God's green earth are people SO OFFENDED by me saying that Twilight is a ****ty series.

Why on earth do you care unless you're SM?

If someone sat there and said what a ****ty writer Virginia Woolfe was, I would simply say that I enjoy her novels and why, and leave it at that. if they insulted me for it, what the **** ever. Why does everyone care so ****ing much over what I have to say about the Twilight series and the people who praise them as good books? It's as if everyone is so personally insulted by me saying that they're a poorly written series.

I've already said repeatedly why I'm angry over this series, and it's apparent that no one cares to read it, and they only care that I said that it's a crappy series and that people say that it's good are ignorant and poorly read. If you think Twilight is WRITTEN WELL, you are poorly read and you don't know what a good book is.

If you don't like it, get over it and pick up some Faulkner or Morrison (Or even Palahniuk) and learn what good writing is. Go read Thomas Mann or Simone de Beauvoir. But SM is NOT a good writer. I don't think she ever will be, and I doubt she'll ever write another thing and she'll fade into the backgrond, while the GOOD writers, won't.

MindiV
07-22-2009, 08:11 AM
I just don't like to be called ignorant for my opinion. I don't agree with your opinion, but I've not called you a single name or challenged your intellect. It's just incredible that someone who's so upset over this book and the fact that MOST of us like it is STILL posting in this thread! If we're all so ignorant then please post elsewhere on 3FC, and leave us idiots to our discussion in peace.

pintobean
07-22-2009, 08:40 AM
@ sunflowergirl68

*sigh* I think you're really missing the point here. I feel I'm banging my head against a brick wall. I really *don't* have a problem with you disliking the series (neither does anyone here I believe). I am really *OK* with that. Everyone does not have to love the series. Again, we're not robots! It is a personal preference, honestly.

As for insulting you, how DARE you call everyone ignorant and an idiot who happens to like this series. You *don't* know anyone on this site personally. So, go ahead and take a look at yourself first.

Oh I am mature enough to accept the fact that people have loved it and hated it, for whatever reason, and I am *OK* with either opinion. I don't have to personally attack folks who love the series and throw my so called degree in their face claiming *I* know more about good literature and you don't cuz look I have an English Lit degree. Again, a degree has *nothing* to do with being well read. It is a personal choice to read whatever one wants to read. I did not need some 3rd party website to tell me what was wrong with this series. I am quite *able* to think for myself. Not every fluff needs to be well written. It is hence fluff and is called mindless reading.

And, yes it is funny, despite you insulting everyone for enjoying this series, you (a) read it multiple times and (b) still went to watch the movie. :lol:

As for comparing your English degree with a doctor, that's just silly!

I've had enough here...

painted lady
07-22-2009, 09:01 AM
i think the thing people here have a problem with is being called ignorant and poorly read. you don't know me, so don't assume things about me just because i enjoy vampire novels that aren't classics.

ladybugnessa
07-22-2009, 09:26 AM
i think the thing people here have a problem with is being called ignorant and poorly read. you don't know me, so don't assume things about me just because i enjoy vampire novels that aren't classics.

exactly. It's summer. I want to be mindless in the summer.

babenwaiting
07-24-2009, 03:09 PM
I took my teen girl to the GYN six months ago and got her on the pill, then i showed her where we keep condoms....

yesterday at just over 17 she took herself to her GYN check up. I'm proud of her.

Well, ladybugnessa ... I think that is really sad. :( I couldn't disagree more; they shouldn't be living a life that requires birth-control at that age.

I know there are many who feel the way you do, but I have to be honest ... I think it's very harmful to our young people in the long run.

ladybugnessa
07-24-2009, 03:15 PM
Well, ladybugnessa ... I think that is really sad. :( I couldn't disagree more; they shouldn't be living a life that requires birth-control at that age.

I know there are many who feel the way you do, but I have to be honest ... I think it's very harmful to our young people in the long run.


is it more harmful than an unwanted pregnancy that parental pressure would force them to keep?

babenwaiting
07-24-2009, 03:25 PM
is it more harmful than an unwanted pregnancy that parental pressure would force them to keep?

The only alternative is not an unwanted pregnancy. Another is to teach your children the difference between what's right and what's wrong for them, and then let them know that you expect them to respect those teachings. They're the kids, we're the adults ... and we all need to act like it. If we just throw up our hands and say, "oh why bother ... they won't listen" ... then they get that vibe from us, and they do what they want.

Kids generally give you what you expect from them ...

Hun.e.B
07-24-2009, 03:57 PM
Well as the mother of a 14 year old daughter I can tell you that we can talk to them, educate them and tell them what OUR beliefs are all we want, but, when it comes down to it, THEY make the decision to have sex or not. Its not a throw your hands in the air thing.

I tell my daughter what I believe to be right and wrong, I tell her I dont want her having sex yet and all my many reasons why, but in the end I cannot stop her no matter how hard I may want to. Teenagers do what they want despite the vibe they are getting from the parents. You can say oh it shouldnt be that way, its wrong all you want but thats just the way it is and the way it has always been.

The dangerous thing to do is to try and teach abstinence only. You cant do better if you dont know better. Teens need to be educated on birthcontrol and sex in general so they know what their choices are and hopefully they'll make wise decisions.

Unfortunately or not teens DO need to be thinking about birthcontrol. My daughter has had very close relationships where I was worried sex was going to happen so I talked to her every chance I got but most of all I stressed the importance of protecting herself, that means birthcontrol. If she isnt prepared going into the situation then the consequences could very well be an unwanted pregnancy.

We arent raising children we are raising adults, the best thing we can do is give them the tools and hope and pray they use them!

Just my 2 cents anyway!

ladybugnessa
07-24-2009, 04:29 PM
The only alternative is not an unwanted pregnancy. Another is to teach your children the difference between what's right and what's wrong for them, and then let them know that you expect them to respect those teachings. They're the kids, we're the adults ... and we all need to act like it. If we just throw up our hands and say, "oh why bother ... they won't listen" ... then they get that vibe from us, and they do what they want.

Kids generally give you what you expect from them ...

ah well then that explains it. I don't think sex outside of marriage is wrong. we did express to daughter and boyfriend that we would prefer that they wait.. but we can't control them when we are not with them and you can't be with them 24/7 when they are 17. you have to raise them so that you trust them. So I taught my kids what was right. girls on the pill, boys use condoms no matter what. Responsibility is what I teach my children.

ladybugnessa
07-24-2009, 04:32 PM
Well as the mother of a 14 year old daughter I can tell you that we can talk to them, educate them and tell them what OUR beliefs are all we want, but, when it comes down to it, THEY make the decision to have sex or not. Its not a throw your hands in the air thing.

I tell my daughter what I believe to be right and wrong, I tell her I dont want her having sex yet and all my many reasons why, but in the end I cannot stop her no matter how hard I may want to. Teenagers do what they want despite the vibe they are getting from the parents. You can say oh it shouldnt be that way, its wrong all you want but thats just the way it is and the way it has always been.

The dangerous thing to do is to try and teach abstinence only. You cant do better if you dont know better. Teens need to be educated on birthcontrol and sex in general so they know what their choices are and hopefully they'll make wise decisions.

Unfortunately or not teens DO need to be thinking about birthcontrol. My daughter has had very close relationships where I was worried sex was going to happen so I talked to her every chance I got but most of all I stressed the importance of protecting herself, that means birthcontrol. If she isnt prepared going into the situation then the consequences could very well be an unwanted pregnancy.

We arent raising children we are raising adults, the best thing we can do is give them the tools and hope and pray they use them!

Just my 2 cents anyway!

:bravo:

babenwaiting
07-24-2009, 04:46 PM
ah well then that explains it. I don't think sex outside of marriage is wrong.

ladybugnessa, I didn't say that I thought sex outside marriage was wrong. I'm saying that I think TEENS having sex is wrong. Once they're older and wiser, that's a different thing altogether.

ladybugnessa
07-24-2009, 04:51 PM
ladybugnessa, I didn't say that I thought sex outside marriage was wrong. I'm saying that I think TEENS having sex is wrong. Once they're older and wiser, that's a different thing altogether.

How do you think they get wiser?

babenwaiting
07-24-2009, 04:59 PM
How do you think they get wiser?

How do YOU think people get wiser, lbn? Do you think people have to experience EVERYTHING in order to live an intelligent, sensible life?

ladybugnessa
07-24-2009, 05:07 PM
How do YOU think people get wiser, lbn? Do you think people have to experience EVERYTHING in order to live an intelligent, sensible life?

Not EVERYTHING but you sure do have to have LIFE experience in order to properly live life.

I can raise my kids to the best of my ability, and I can tell them what I think is right.

My daughter and the current boyfriend (her first) are having a rough time because he's being a typical teen and not falling at her feet wanting to be with her ever second of every day.

We can tell her we think she should break it off with him
We can tell her that she is being emotionally abused
We can even FORBID her to see him

what does she learn?

Thighs Be Gone
07-24-2009, 05:08 PM
Wow--can't believe I am jumping into this friggin' fire.

I am wiser than I was as a teen. I have 20+ years of experience I didn't have then. I have more of a *true, honest and sincere* respect for human life and the human experience than I did then and on an entirely new level--to simply say it's "deeper" would be a gross exaggeration of truth. I no longer think I am invincible. I have more self-respect than I did then. My self-esteem is rock solid. I know who I am. I know what I am about. I know what I stand for and no problem standing up for it. My brain (as most humans) didn't fully develop until my mid20's. Grasping the full gammet of human sexuality and what it means didn't come until way after that.

I am not saying that one person or another is wrong here. The decision to become sexually active or not is huge and unto itself, life altering in the best of circumstances.

Will my children be sexually active? I don't know. What I do know is that I will share all my knowledge with them. Not just condoms, birth control or trips to a doctor--those are simply physical things. It is just so, so much more than that.

ladybugnessa
07-24-2009, 05:14 PM
Wow--can't believe I am jumping into this friggin' fire.

I am wiser than I was as a teen. I have 20+ years of experience I didn't have then. I have more of a *true, honest and sincere* respect for human life and the human experience than I did then and on an entirely new level--to simply say it's "deeper" would be a gross exaggeration of truth. I no longer think I am invincible. I have more self-respect than I did then. My self-esteem is rock solid. I know who I am. I know what I am about. I know what I stand for and no problem standing up for it. My brain (as most humans) didn't fully develop until my mid20's. Grasping the full gammet of human sexuality and what it means didn't come until way after that.

I am not saying that one person or another is wrong here. The decision to become sexually active or not is huge and unto itself, life altering in the best of circumstances.

Will my children be sexually active? I don't know. What I do know is that I will share all my knowledge with them. Not just condoms, birth control or trips to a doctor--those are simply physical things. It is just so, so much more than that.


You get it Truly.

and trust me, BCP and condoms were the LAST part of this ongoing conversation. I have had these conversations with my daughter since before she was my daughter. (she's my step daughter but I am raising her).

since the day I became her full time female caretaker we have talked about love and marriage and babies and respect and waiting...

she asked me when I had sex first and I told her the truth.
IF you do the math you would know her father was conceived before his teen mother was married... Kids are not stupid but they are also not mini adults, and it takes experience to learn to make good choices.

how many of us say "oh I would never be 16 again unless I could know what I know now"

babenwaiting
07-24-2009, 05:23 PM
ladybugnessa, many times, people listen to other people, including teens really listening to their parents, and things turn out well ... they find they can learn from their parents' experience. I followed my Mom's advice on many things, and she was right! You don't need to allow a child to jump out a second story window (and break their neck) to let them learn for themselves that it's not a good thing to do!

ladybugnessa
07-24-2009, 05:29 PM
ladybugnessa, many times, people listen to other people, including teens really listening to their parents, and things turn out well ... they find they can learn from their parents' experience. I followed my Mom's advice on many things, and she was right! You don't need to allow a child to jump out a second story window (and break their neck) to let them learn for themselves that it's not a good thing to do!


ya know we had three rules in our house when the boys were little

1. don't play in traffic
2. don't play with fire
3. don't play with knives

everything else was negotiable.

I might not let then jump out a second story window but I might let them jump off a high diving board...

you need to choose your battles carefully.

and you need to teach tolerance.

and judgment.

I don't want my kids doing things 'because my mom told me so'. I want my kids to do things because they KNOW it's the right thing to do.

they can SAY it's the right thing to do because their mommy said it is... doesn't mean they believe it.

babenwaiting
07-24-2009, 06:25 PM
Okay, lbn, end of discussion ... (for me, anyway.) We'll never agree on this subject, so ... peace ... and I hope your way of doing things works out well for you and yours.

painted lady
07-24-2009, 07:12 PM
ladybugnessa, you are awesome.

my mom told me when i was 14 that no matter what, she would always love me. i was suspicious and said, "okay...." then she said, "if you have a girlfriend or a boyfriend, a husband or a wife, a baby at 16 or a baby at 26 or a baby at never, i will always love you."

i didn't have sex until i was 18 and i've been in my current relationship for five years. and i've never had a baby (yet).

ladybugnessa
07-25-2009, 12:24 AM
ladybugnessa, you are awesome.

my mom told me when i was 14 that no matter what, she would always love me. i was suspicious and said, "okay...." then she said, "if you have a girlfriend or a boyfriend, a husband or a wife, a baby at 16 or a baby at 26 or a baby at never, i will always love you."

i didn't have sex until i was 18 and i've been in my current relationship for five years. and i've never had a baby (yet).

aw shucks..:o

I was an early starter with the boyfriend.. but I never got pregnant till I was married and wanted to.

my older son is 25 and he's emotionally disabled but he's still able to talk to us about sex and he still knows how to be responsible enough to wear condoms. And he was past 21 when he choose to have sex.

Younger son turns 23 next week. Graduated this year from Drexel University. Graduated high school a virgin, but also felt safe enough to discuss his sexual concerns with his mom and stepdad (my husband) I believe he was 20 when he lost his virginity.

My daughter (she's really my step) and I had talked about sex since she was in 6th grade and she knew we felt it was important for her to make it special. she came to me MONTHS in advance (after being told she needed to trust us and come to us) and said "I think I"m getting ready can I go to the doctor"

I took her.. and I was honored that she felt safe enough to come to me....

No I'm not the best mom but ya know what.. I Know where my kid is even when she's not with me I know who she's with, she chooses to be with us sometimes instead of being with her friends or sulking in her room. She does her chores willingly. Her friends feel they can talk to us as well and think we are the "cool folks" and are here more than anywhere else...

we know these kids are not roaming the streets, we know they are not doing drugs, we know they don't drink or steal....

all of them have friended us on facebook and hide nothing from us.

I must be doing something right.

painted lady
07-25-2009, 12:31 AM
and i think you are. :D

and speaking of Twilight, i'm totally writing a paper about vampire series fiction right now. (and i'm comparing it to "wealthy teen" fiction, like Gossip Girl.) i'm keeping some of our conversations in mind!

ladybugnessa
07-25-2009, 12:36 AM
and i think you are. :D

and speaking of Twilight, i'm totally writing a paper about vampire series fiction right now. (and i'm comparing it to "wealthy teen" fiction, like Gossip Girl.) i'm keeping some of our conversations in mind!

very cool.

as for Twilight, i saw the movie at the beach at the end of June and since I love sci-fi I loved it. but the FI part of sci-fi is FICTION....

I got the books to read for when I'm recuperating from WLS later this year