WW Clubs and Groups - Turtle club #69

Hi, Everyone,

Here's my "official" version of the fable:

The Hare and the Tortoise

A hare met a tortoise one day and made fun of him for the slow and clumsy way in which he walked.

The tortoise laughed and said, "I will run a race with you any time that you choose."

"Very well," replied the hare, "we will start at once."

The tortoise immediately set off in his slow and steady way without waiting a moment or looking back. The hare, on the other hand, treated the matter as a joke and decided to take a little nap before starting, for she thought that it would be an easy matter to overtake her rival.

The tortoise plodded on, and meanwhile the hare overslept herself, with the result that she arrived at the winning-post only to see that the tortoise had got in before her.

Moral: Slow and steady wins the race.

This comes from a book handed down from my grandmother to my mother to me. The book is so old it doesn't have a copyright date or an author/editor's credit.

That fable has been the motivation for us turtles for about three years. Someone on the ancient WW forum mentioned the fable and I discovered it was very motivational for me. I talked about it in posts and other people said that the tortoise philosophy worked for them, too. So, I started a thread for us turtle types.

We work toward accepting that our bodies have a natural speed of weight loss when we choose to live a healthy life, instead of "going on a diet". Many of us have experienced "the diets" as go on/lose weight-- go off/ gain the weight plus more back.

We choose to perservere with each choice we make throughout the day. We believe that choosing to be slow, steady turtles helps us to learn the skills we need to in order to lose and keep off the weight. Our main focus is to become the healthiest people we can be.

So, welcome to all who realize that losing and maintaining a weight loss is a lifestyle change. And who want support as we all learn the skills we need to successfully make the changes that will allow us to reach our goals.

Lin

Hi, Turtle Buddies,

Glad you're enjoying your workouts, Erin. I hope you can get some useful information from your doctor. Good luck, there.

Judy, I'm glad you seem to be enjoying this journey more. It gives us all a lot more motivation when we're having a little fun with it.

Lauren, hope that usability gig works out and that they hire you permanently, if they're who you want to work for. Sorry that the U. of Michigan thing has been put off for a while.

Hmmm. . .I've been there--wanting to maintain and not caring about losing anymore. If it's not stress-related, it's usually after a fairly substantial weight loss, such as after I've lost 20 or more pounds. Once I've been at that weight for a while and it feels like that's my normal weight, then I start to want to lose again.

I am back OP with my points today. Looking over my journal for the past few days, I noticed that I sort of crept up on it, gradually making the changes that resulted in my journal being right on track when I was writing it down this morning. What's interesting is that I didn't sit down and plan each step. They just sort of happened. It was almost like I decided I wanted to lose weight again and the things I needed to do just happened. I think this program is getting ingrained.

I'm determined to go for a walk today. I never got out yesterday, but it's sunny and wonderful out there today. It's much more inviting than all of those wintery clouds and cold we've been having this--summer? :p

Gotta tell you about this bread. Orowheat's 100% whole wheat bread is 1 point per slice and it's about 1/3 larger than most of the "light" breads. It's the fiber and lack of fat that makes the difference. Anyway, I'm glad that I found a bread that will hold a whole gardenburger for 2 points!!

My maps are going well. There's a lot of work to do once the map is created. This software doesn't put in rivers, cities, etc., so I have to do all of that by hand. It's so much fun to decide where things will go.

My other project is to set up a hypertext document (a document created using HTML, so you can link related things together) to organize my notes on the world, characters, etc. so I can easily look things up as I write/edit the book. It's a lot easier to do documents than web pages, so I doubt it will take long to set up. I'm going to get some use out of all that education after all. YAY!

Everything else is OK, too. We've been talking about moving to Fremont. The rents have come down a little and we can find apartments for about what this one costs. It's so much closer to SJ. It would cut Paul's commute about two-thirds. His company is talking about moving to that area, though, so that would really cut the commute. From here, it adds another 20 minutes each way!! And the other best part is if we can find a place within walking distance of the BART station, my youngest could save himself between 20 and 30 thousand dollars worth of loans for housing because he could live at home and take the BART train from home to the school. We'll be doing research into this during the summer.

Happy turtlin'! :cool:

Lin
272/246/244

Lin,
Wow, you've got lots of great possibilities working out for you.
Everything sounds so positive and encouraging. I'm thrilled that you've got yourself back on track with WW. That's a very good thing.
I think you're terrific to exercise. That's really wonderful.

Mousie,
Bocci is an Italian lawn game. Two two-member teams play against each other. You throw a small ball to act as the target.
Then each person tosses four balls and sees who gets closest to score points. It's a little like a rolling horseshoe game. Anyway it's a lot of fun to play and even watch. However, I didn't get it out this time. Running after my great nieces son and daughter gave us all plenty of exercise. Thanks for asking about the BBQ. I did well, prepared foods that were all countable and even made a FF SF pudding parfait with ladyfingers as the base. It was pretty. I put it all in a good sized wine glass and topped it with Cool Whip. Easy and a nice change from the angelfood with pineapple or cherry that I usually rely on. I also bought yummy
grapes and cherries to top off the meal.

Lauren,
Glad you'll get back in the swing of part=time work so soon. Sorry about the university freelancing, but that time will come quickly. About finances--You and dh just see things differently and it can make for tensions. Maybe he'll agree to talk things out with you soon. I have a huge need for financial security and can see where you're coming from, but if you write down all your assets, etc. maybe it will help you calm down a bit.

I had another good day--arrived home starving and then my dd called and we were on the phone for 45minutes. I had Chinese food for dinner that we had delivered. God bless America! It was so convenient. I am not going to get on the scale for awhile. However, I think I'm losing a little because the pants I bought that were snug around the waist fit me now! I hemmed one pair and have two more to go.
Things are going better at work and although each day is a challenge, I'm getting through.

Everyone take care and enjoy.
Judy:dizzy: ;) :p

Good afternoon, Turtles. I'm trying to talk myself into going to the gym. I want a workout, but they've switched my Spinning class to a kickboxing class for the summer, and I don't know if I want to do that. Want to embarass myself that way, more like. I'm very low on coordination. I've got til the hour to decide, though, so no pressure or anything. :rolleyes:

Lin, it's always interesting to hear how your book is going. It never occured to me that you would need to add towns and cities and rivers to your map. I know that seems like a given, but it never occured to me.

It sounds like this move could be ideal for you, I hope things work out in that direction. It brings you closer to where you feel is "home", and that's always a good thing.

Judy, you really hit your groove! It sounds like everything is just pulling together, falling in place. I hope things keep going this way for you. :)

Lauren, I sympathize with the money issues. DH does not understand my worries, either. I think I would try to talk him into postponing the basement project...maybe until you start freelancing? For 6 months? Um...til the cows come home? :moo: :lol:

I'm trying to add 4 more points a day, to see if things go up or down or stay the same, etc. This is just flat-out added to the day, whether I exercise or not. I exercise 5 or 6 days a week, so to my way of thinking my metabolism should be "up" all days. I have read many times that ideal weight loss occurs when you cut 500 calories from your daily calorie need. Issue is, what is my daily caloric need? I have never been able to figure that one out. No matter which formula I use, I'm still up around 3000 calories a day! So if I cut down to 2500 I should lose, right? But I blow up when I do that. So....:shrug: I dunno. I can do this for other people but about my own body I'm confused!

Anyway, I need to find some socks. Bye Turtles!

Hi, everyone. I was just thinking today about healthy ways to deal with stress. I came up with this list:

-- Go for a walk
-- Boogie with Richard Simmons :)
-- Read a mystery novel (or other light fare)
-- Spend time outside
-- Take a nap
-- Pray

When rushed for time, here are some other ideas:

-- Dab lavendar on my wrists and sniff them often (Bath & Bodyworks have a wonderful line of aromatherapy products)
-- Keep little quotations around and repeat one to yourself (I have some sticky notes that say "What if we stop worrying about the what ifs?")
-- Call a friend
-- Spend five minutes with eyes closed, picturing yourself somewhere peaceful and lovely (my favorite: walking on a beach); the more details you can imagine, the better this works. Waves sliding up on the sand then back out to the sea; gulls calling and wheeling overhead; a warm breeze; the feeling of wet sand under your bare feet; the smell of seawater ...
-- Pray

Other ideas?

I worked out with Richard Simmons this morning. His workouts are too easy for me now, which is why I stopped doing them, but everybody else bores me. When I'm bored, I stop working out. I wish Richard would do some advanced workouts.

Lin, I wish we could find that Orowheat around here, but I get Natural Ovens instead. They've finally started carrying it locally. (It's still a better deal on the web, but you have to have extra freezer space to make it worth your while.) That's GREAT you are looking at moving back to Fremont!! I hope that works out for you; I know you've really struggled with your current location.

Judy, loose pants are a good thing. :) Your BBQ dessert sounds fun. I took your advice and looked at all our assets ... it still freaks me out. They say you should ideally have three months' expenses saved up so that if you both lost your jobs, you could survive that long before losing the house, etc. To me, that's the bare minimum. When we go below that in savings, I start to get verrrrry tense. We're OK right now, but not if we keep throwing money away -- I mean, keep spending money on stuff DH wants.

Erin, loved the laughing cow pic. And I agree -- "until the cows come home" would suit me fine. I'm trying to gain perspective here. We'll talk about it when he gets back from Austin next week (and when his mother's not here -- she gets freaked out when we disagree about things).

Onward and downward,

Lauren
274/189/170s before Adirondacks

Hi, Turtles,

Wow, Judy!! Loose pants are great! Way to go!! :D

Glad your BBQ went well and that things are better at work for you. Summer vacation is almost here!! Those who don't still have that school schedule as adults envy you a little, I think. I know when I had a job I really missed those lazy days when I could just daydream, like I did when I was a kid. That's when I made up stories, with me as the heroine, of course. :lol:

Erin, your struggle with figuring out what to do is interesting because it emphasizes how individual we all are. Your clients get extra benefits because your own experience helps you understand their frustrations and struggles better. They are so lucky to have you. ;)

I hope the 4 points works. I'm sure it's extra frustrating for you because you can't see the results of all of that exercise.

Lauren, stick to your guns. I wish my dh and I had been able to keep that 3 months income in the bank, but he's been laid off too often these past few years. Frequent layoffs and the length of time it takes to find employment is why they recommend 6 months for high-tech employees. Because the income of artists is so irregular, they recommend a whole year's income for writers, musicians, etc. Sometimes I think financial planners are bigger dreamers than artists!! At least about how much extra money people have to follow their rules with. :p

I like your list.

Here's the things that are on my list, too:

Go for a walk.
Read anything.
Pray.
Take a nap, but only if I'm extra tired. I don't sleep easily in the daytime.

The ones I do that are different (in no particular order):

Write in my journal.
Write stories.
I'm starting to add building new worlds. It's working great right now!!
Surf the internet for the weird, the wacky, the humorous, the unusual, or just plain interesting stuff that's out there.
Play a computer game for a while. Puzzle games keep my conscious mind occupied while my subconsiouls works out writing issues. But RPG's immerse me in another place so I can forget for a little while.
Listen to music.
Watch a movie.
When I had access to a darkroom, photography was another outlet for stress.
Cook something new, or better yet, create a new recipe.
Do an art or craft project.
When I had a comfortable bathtub, I loved bubble baths (especially if the soap smelled like roses) and a good book. I used to sit until the water was cold. I'd warm it up and sit until my fingertips were pink raisins. Add some soft music, candles and I'm in heaven.

I'm counting points and making pretty good choices. I just got back from a walk. I had an errand to run. I have another tomorrow. So, things are OK for me today.

My mapmaking is going well. You know, Erin, the rivers, cities, etc. are pretty easy because the landscape helps me to figure out the places where rivers would naturally run and people would most likely build towns, etc. Then I have to figure out their culture and history and everything else that a writer of contemporary fiction takes for granted. Then I tossed magic into the mix and now it's a totally different way of looking at this project. It's so fun. And so hard because there are so many possibilities. I have to keep a file of good ideas I'm not using in this story or I get paralyzed about having to choose. Sometimes being a good brainstormer is a royal pain. ;) Other times--it's perfect. I combined a couple of ideas I've been playing around with for a long time and things are starting to come together. It's :cool:

I forgot to tell you. I'm auditing a class on novel writing. It's taught by a woman who's writing is the sole support of herself and her kids. She's a fantasy writer. It should be great. It will help me to figure out the process that works best for me and I'm really excited about it. The downside- I have to miss the first class. It's the same day as my ds's graduation. But I can catch up on the boards.

Happy turtlin'! :cool:

Lin
272/246/244

I have to ask, Lin -- what RPGs do you recommend? Are any online (and free)?

--Lauren

Lauren,
Thanks for the activities to relax by. I share a lot of them.
I also love playing mindless hearts on the computer. It lets me have fun without thinking to hard. I daydream and figure out a lot of things when I play cards on the computer.
I mostly love to read and I've been making more time for that lately. The quick little fixes like praying and taking 30second images of the beach, etc. do wonders for me. I also like deep breaths. They help me keep calm.

Lin,
Love to hear about your novel. Also glad you're working WW and exercise. Enjoy the class about novel writing. And yes, many teachers realize how lucky we are to have such a long summer break. It's great to recharge and get ready for a new class in the fall.

Mousie,
Would a nutritionist be able to help you calculate calories needed to lose weight? With all the exercise you're doing and watching what you're eating, someone should be able to help you figure this out.
I'm with you and finances.

Those cows would have to moo very loud before I'd want to do a thousands plus job . So, good luck and remember we're backing you up!

All goes well here. I ate higher points today than I should have,
but I can count them in for the week. You all take care and have fun.
Judy;)

Hello, Turtle Buddies,

Lauren, I haven't played any online freebie RPG's. I'm still working my way through older games that weren't free. But they're ancient enough that you might be able to find them for $10-20.

What kind of games do you like? While I'm not fond of lots of monsters and battles, I will tolerate them if the storyline is good enough. I don't play "hack & slash", which is your basic run around, kill as many monsters as you can, collect up all of the treasure you find and defeat the big bad guy at the end. BORING!
Anyway, let me know more specifically what you're looking for and I'll tell you which games I've played (and liked) that you can get cheap. Unfortunately, a lot of my real favorites aren't available anymore because the companies didn't see fit to redo them to be Windows compatible. :(

Judy, my week has been a little like yours. I'm a little over in points today, but I've been under max for the last couple of days, so it's averaged out. Plus, I'm not adding in my activity points, mainly because my walks have been pretty short. We're doing what we need to do and need to congratulate ourselves for that.

B&N finally shipped my order, which means that the book for my class probably won't get here until Monday or Tuesday, unless UPS happens to be fast this time. The one thing that's good about missing the first class is that I will have time to go over the book. I had hoped that by ordering last Monday, I'd get my books before this weekend, especially since they were both "usually ships within 24 hours". They probably came from different warehouses and they had to collect them together before they could ship them. But, for free shipping, it's worth waiting a few extra days.

After I fininsh lunch, it's off for my walk. I have to mail some stuff, so it will be a little longer walk than I've been getting. The weather is great, so I'm looking forward to it. Unfortunately, when the weather is great here, my dh gets home complaining about the heat because SJ roasts when the coast is warm.

I lost a couple of hours work today because the computer saved the map I was working on in the wrong file format. It was one of those weird things some software programs do, but I wish they had told me it would do that. So, I have to do it over. I'm working on changing the climate in some places so there's more variety and so the climate would be more stable. I don't want my book to be about tornadoes and tidal waves. :D

One really cool thing is that once I get the climate, average rainfall, and average temperature maps the way I want them, my son (the one who gamemasters role-playing games) gave me a couple of charts that takes that information and breaks it down into seasons, rainfall during different times of the year, types of disasters typical to each type of climate, etc. Talk about making my life easier!! I don't have to research that stuff myself.

So, off to the mailbox and back to work on my climate maps.

Happy turtlin'! :D

Lin
272/246/244

Good evening, Turtles.

Lin, that sucks about your map! I'm so sorry. Maybe...if you opened it, and then saved it as the proper file type? Maybe? Can you tell I'm not a computer person? ;)

Judy, I think you're doing a great job balancing things. Over one day, make up for it other days...that's the way the human body is supposed to work. Not that mine does, but anyway. ;)

Lauren, good luck when DH gets back in town. That sort of conversation is hard--and harder because you're really wishing you didn't have to have it in the first place.

My Deal-With-Stress list:

*take a bath
*go to the gym (my haven :) )
*read
*write in my journal
*get in my car and drive around with the radio turned up. Hard on the environment but it soothes me.

I left Spinning this evening due to an oddly (and painfully) cramping stomach. I figured that was my body trying to tell me something.

I had my doctor's appointment today, with mixed results. This is what she said:

*My blood pressure is fine, yay! I'm at 122/68, so I do NOT need to worry. Of course I need to keep it here, but she said with my exercise schedule the challenge will be keeping it UP, not down (exercise makes your heart stronger, thus blood pressure drops).
*She's instructed me to come back in the morning, to the lab, for fasting blood glucose and insulin tests. Instead of diabetes (elevated glucose) she's more inclined to think that if something is off, I'm tending toward hypoglycemia (low glucose). Which, SIGH, is dealt with through protein consumption.
*She referred me to a nutritionist, to discuss protein and vegetarianism. She noted the fact that I've been a vegetarian for 7 1/2 years, and have lost weight in the past, and thus should logically have had the right protein/carb balance during that time. This is why she ordered insulin tests now--something has obviously changed.

So, back to protein. SIGH. I am NOT willing to eat meat. Seriously not willing to. I have protein powder, though, and can see a fruit/protein smoothie for breakfast, and am willing to cut out simple carbs (Which I do to a large degree anyway). But I need to be even more strict, I guess. The powder is 4 points/35 grams of protein. With 1/2 cup of skim milk it's 43 grams, throw in some fruit and I'm set. I bought stuff to experiment with. :)

Anyway. I hope all is well with the Turtles, I'll see you soon!

Hi, Fellow turtles,

Erin, I got the map thing worked out. It just cost me a few hours work, since the basic map was still saved.

I hope that your nutritionist and your doctor can help you to work out a vegetarian food plan that will keep you healthy and help you reach your weight loss goals, too. Good luck.

I didn't do well this week. I did off and on. I gained 3 pounds, but some of it is water. PMS is looming. I've been making some changes in response to the "off" times and I'm sure that I'll get back to being more consistently OP. The main thing I need is to replace my nonstick electric skillet. It died and I've been struggling to keep the fat content of my food down because it's really hard to cook lower fat recipes in a regular pan.

But, stress has been part of the problem, too. My son emailed me and told me that he didn't pass English. He said that about a quarter of his class, 70 people or so, aren't graduating and most of them got F's from this same teacher. She apparently prides herself on setting such a high standard that many students have trouble meeting it. So, why isn't she teaching AP or Honors English? Those are the students who have a shot at meeting her standards. Or, how about sophomore or junior English, so she can teach them something before they get to their senior year unprepared? (And have a summer before their graduation year to make it up if they don't pass so they can graduate on time.)

The thing that makes me so angry is that he told me he has learned more from her than any other teacher he's ever had, which is why he refused to transfer out. He preferred to stick it out and give it his best shot. And his reward for that effort is an F? Cliches go through my brain--this is pure irony. Poetic injustice. No good deed goes unpunished.

So, instead of him graduating, coming home, and looking for a job to earn some money for college expenses, we have to arrange for him to stay in San Jose and go to summer school. The family he's staying with is moving away from the area right after school ends. So, he'll have to stay with my mother and, I hope, take the bus to school. Her health won't allow her to drive him, so unless he has a friend with a car who is in the same situation, we'll have to hope that the bus system doens't require lots of transfers and hours to get him there in the morning.

We have our fingers crossed that as long as he passes summer school, he won't lose his scholarship or his acceptance at college. They both depend on his graduation from high school, of course. Once we get his summer plans organized, I'll have to call the college and see if that will work for them. If it doesn't, he can go to community college, but he'll lose that scholarship forever. It's strictly for graduating high school seniors.

The other reason I'm upset is a purely maternal one. I missed him this year and was looking forward to having him home for one last summer before he's off to his own life at college and beyond. This college doesn't have summer breaks, so once he starts, he's gone. That assumes he keeps his scholarship, goes to college, and we don't end up moving to a place where he can live at home and save a lot on loans.

Some potentially good news came up, though. The company that makes Dungeons and Dragons is accepting proposals for a new world in which to make adventures. My oldest son had one he's been working on for years. He's working up a proposal based on that world and some new ideas he's had. It's worth big bucks--$120 K-- (Yes, that's 'hundred thousand') And, even better, they may hire the people to work on further development of their worlds into role-playing adventures, novels, trading card games, and miniatures. It's not a contest. It's a job application, but without the human resources nonsense. They don't care about your degrees or lack thereof, or your age (with parental permission, minors can submit proposals), or what's in your job history. They only care if they think your proposal is original enough, fits in with their gaming system, and can be worked into saleable products.

He will need artwork in the final proposal, if he gets that far. He's planning to ask his brother and one other artist friend to contribute to that package, since he dabbles, but isn't all that talented as an artist. There also could be work for me as a writer. if my son will allow me to write in his world. He says he can do all of the writing himself and wants me to edit. I appreciate his appreciation of my editing skills and I appreciate that he's a talented writer, but both of us could write stuff, right? :D

Anyway, I'm not planning to submit the world I'm currently working on because I don't want to sell the rights. I want to be able to write novels for the regular publishing houses in that world. And, the way it's shaping up, it wouldn't work for their purposes, anyway. But, I have considered working up a different world, strictly as a role-playing universe. They're considering developing up to three worlds, so both of us could sell. Wouldn't that be cool? It's blind judging, so they'd never know they picked proposals from two family members until after it was a done deed.

Gotta go and plan how to fix my food stuff so I'm back OP and losing weight more steadily instead of doing this lose a few and gain them back. I think, though, that sometimes my problem is that it takes as much effort to do WW properly as to write this book. And I'm juggling those things. It's gradually coming together. I have to be patient with myself while I work it out or I'll end up giving up WW in favor of the book, which I don't want to do. I want to do both.

Happy turtlin'! :D

Lin
272/249/244

Gaaaah, what a week. For the past four days, I've eaten everything in sight. I haven't done that in a LONG time. In fact, I can't remember the last time I did that. :( I stopped writing it down about midway through, and I didn't get any exercise. It's like I just shut off all the good habits and dove into The Womb.

It must be a combination of DH being gone and PMS. I'm not sure why DH being gone affects me like that. It's like I kick into major vacation mode when he's gone; I get nothing done, I just curl up with books or watch movies or hang out on the internet -- stuff I can't do as much of when he's around.

I've also been tense -- not sure how much of that is PMS and how much is just general joblessness/money concerns.

Erin, how did your blood tests come out?

Onward and downward,

Lauren
274/191/don't ask right now

Hi, Turtles,

Wow, Lauren, I don't think we were completely separated at birth. We still have a telepathic connection. I just got done writing a journal entry about the same subject as your post. I, too, have been just eating. Although many of my food choices fit just fine into my plan, some of it didn't. But what concerns me is that I simply stopped paying attention.

You know, it sounds like, if you'll pardon the unasked for advice, your dh is very high maintenance. It sounds like you may need to set a few boundaries so that you don't have to wait until he's not home to do some of the activities that you enjoy. Or, maybe, you just needed a good, old-fashioned vacation from all of the stuff that you normally do and this was a good opportunity to do it, so you brain simply took advantage and did it. Good luck, getting back OP.

I realized that in my case, I've been very up and down, both in how motivated I am to stay OP and in my ability to follow through since my brother died. I've also noticed that sometimes taking the time to made food during the day when I'm writing feels like an interruption and I often don't want to do it. But I do want to reach both of my goals--my weight-loss/health goals and my writing goals.

I do have a plan that I know will get me to both goals. I just have to follow it consistently. Consistency is my current challenge.

As for everything else, it's going fine. We're going to be in San Jose a lot over the next couple of weeks, but my ds will get his class done and get his diploma. My writing is going well. And my ds has a really good proposal going. He's taking a very professional approach and doing the revisions he ought to do to make it shine.

Happy turtlin'! :D

Lin
272/249/244

Lauren, no news from my doctor about the blood tests (no news is good news, right?). I've got an appointment with the dietician/nutritionist on monday, though, so I hope she'll have them.

Lin, my DH has told me about that competition. He doesn't have a world, but being in the gaming industry he hears about these things. It's an amazingly fantastic opportunity, all my good karma is heading up north. Be sure to catch it as it goes by. :)

I'm feeling paralyzed, discouraged, and a bit scared. Last week my doctor said not enough protein, right? This week, I've been really focusing on protein consumption. I've already used up 1 1/2 15-serving canisters of protein powder (1 serving = 2 points). My rule has been that there MUST be protein in whatever I eat (unless it's a veggie). My body loves the protein, too, it's just sucking it up as fast as I can eat it. You're supposed to stay full for a longer time after you eat protein, right? Well, I'm hungry about an hour later. I've been averaging about 30-40% protein every day, still around 30 points varying every day (1500 calories), and working out about an hour a day. NOTHING has changed. At all. Now, I realize that it's too soon for any sort of a major change, but...ounces? Something? Please?

As for scared, I'm very scared to start adding calories. It's the one thing I haven't tried so try that, right? But if I gain any more then THAT won't come off either, and...ugh, I feel so trapped and frustrated! Various site on the net have told me I need anywhere from 1800-2600 calories a day to lose weight, given my activity level. The formulas I know from studies etc. say about 1800. Reports have been printed in the last couple of months that say that 1500 is the 'magic' number. No one agrees, and I'm paralyzed.

I went to the gym with my husband this morning, and he asked me a startling question. "If you're stronger than me on these machines, why can I still beat you when we're wrestling?" The question brought me up short, and made a thought that's been in the back of my mind for a couple of weeks take shape. I have strength, yes, but I don't have DYNAMIC strength. This thought first started when DH bought the game Dance Dance Revolution and I realized how hard it is for me to dance--not the feet part, the balance and agility part. Then I started taking a kickboxing circuit class and realized how hard it is for me to jump rope--not because of my weight, but because of the coordination it takes. Hmm. So now what do I do? I'm honestly at a loss. I'm very active--in addition to the gym I play with the Dance Dance Revolution game, bike, and rollerblade. Any thoughts on agility?

Any thoughts to help with feeling discouraged would be welcome, too. I'm doing everything right! Why is nothing happening? WHY? What am I doing wrong? I'm doing everything I'm supposed to be doing! If this were any other person, the weight loss and toning would be amazing! I'm SO stuck, and I don't know why. UGH!

Okay, I needed to rant a bit. Thanks for listening, Turtles.

Erin, first, good for you getting in the protein.

Suggestions on losing the paralysis ... I don't have any. It seems blindingly obvious to me that you need to add points. Quite possibly you need to add fat. Look ... try it for one week. Just one week. Add fat, add points. Eat at the top end of your range; eat your exercise points on the days you work out. Add more fat -- just trickle olive oil on your veggies, or eat some more nuts. If it doesn't work, there you are. You won't have done any lasting damage in one week. We didn't get fat in 7 days.

If that doesn't work, try the high-low thing. High points one day, low the next. Shake up what you eat -- eat different things than you usually do.

If that doesn't work, take a hard look at how much you're actually eating. Go back to measuring and weighing.

If you don't experiment, you won't see change. I know that when I work out for an hour a day (at my MUCH reduced rate of calorie burn than yours), I can add 3-4 points to my range. The top of my range is 27. So when I work out, I can eat 30 to 31 points. You, who right now weigh more than I do, and have SIGNIFICANTLY more muscle mass than I do, and are working out at an intense level nearly every day -- are eating no more than I eat! Spot the problem.

As for agility ... I've been working on that a bit, mostly trying to improve my balance and flexibility. Sometimes I just try standing on one foot for a while. Do you do Pilates or yoga? For hand-eye coordination, head to a nearby pub and try darts. :) Try dance aerobics. I know my balance and coordination have really improved since I took up dance exercise. "Get Up and Dance" by Paula Abdul is good for agility and balance (and it's a fun workout, too).

Lin, thanks for the thoughts re: getting back on track. I've been writing down the points the past few days, and while I'm still over, it's not enough to make me gain. It feels good just to write it down. Went for a good walk today, too. Some of it is stress, I think ... stress of being without an income, stress about getting my checkup. I seem to have become doctor-phobic in recent years; no idea why. Today I got an annual exam, something I haven't done since starting WW 4 years ago! It went fine, except my blood pressure reacted -- I see to have white-coat syndrome, so it was 142/80. Nobody seemed worried about that but me. So I'm trying not to worry about it either. They're doing lots of blood work, which will be good (though probably not cheap).

Anyway, I guess I'm still OK with being in maintain mode, so long as it doesn't turn into gain mode.

Oh, one bright spot -- the doctor's scales were a tad lighter than mine. :)

Hope your son's proposal knocks their socks off.

Judy, how's it going?

Onward and downward (or at least sideways),

Lauren
274/191/DOWN

Hi, Turtles,

Erin, I can understand how you would be afraid to add fat & calories, as Lauren suggested. But she's right. If you're eating the same amount of food as she is, it's not enough. But, I'd wait to do so until after you talk with your dietician. Perhaps he/she can help you to decide what kind of calories and how much fat you ought to add. Good luck! Keep us posted. We're rooting for you.

I don't have very many ideas for the discouragement. I think time and trying new things until you figure out what works is the only solution. But you will find one. Until then, just remember, you're not alone in your struggle. You have lots of supportive people on your side. Hang in there.

I was always pretty agile and flexible when I was exercising and I think it's because I did dance, yoga, and skating, all of which require you to use your sense of balance and coordination. If dance isn't your thing, some of the ball sports can help too. But my eye-hand coordination stinks because of my vision issues, so they weren't much help for me. The best kinds are sports like basketball, tennis, volleyball. Badminton and frisbee games, too. Shake up your workout by adding some stuff that's just play and have fun.

Lauren, I'm glad you're back to writing down your points. I'm sure you will get back on track as soon as your life settles down a little.
You have a great attitude and lots of determination.

Thanks, all, for your good wishes for my son. His proposal is going really well. He took it to his games this week and got some suggestions from his gaming buddies. And I've been editing and making suggestions, too. His second draft was much better and I have high hopes for his third. OTOH, the competition will be tough. There will be pros, both in house employees and fantasy authors in the running, but as long as his proposal follows the rules and is professionally presented, he has a good chance. It's blind judging.

I had a breakthrough, of sorts, in my journal writing. I realized that it takes me much longer to get over serious disappointments and loss than I tend to allow myself. I think if I can recongize that, I will be able to manage my food better. Sometimes I eat for emotional reasons and I think it's one thing, but it's really something else. (If that makes sense.) Anyway, I'm in a bit of a slump, again. But I'm also learning what I need to learn in order to at least avoid this slump coming up again.

I am planning menus and exercise. I've been neglecting exercise because I'm still working to organize my time now that I'm writing seriously. I get involved and can't seem to pull myself away to get out there and walk. So, I'm going to do my exercise before I start writing. We'll see how it goes. It's PMS, though, and so I need to be careful about not letting PMS panic me, like it sometimes does.

Happy turtlin'! :D

Lin
272/249/244

Turtles, you're amazing people and I love you all. :) Thank you so much for your good ideas and for letting me just rant a bit. You have no idea how much that means to me.

Yesterday I talked to Erika (one of my Spinning instructors--she's also head of fitness at my gym) and she suggested that possibly I'm working out TOO intensely--switching into anaerobic mode for too much of my workout. Anaerobic is really hard and non-sustainable, you're using just the immediately available energy in your cells (around 30 seconds worth) and no fat is burning. Possibly that's why I'm working so hard and not seeing the expected losses. She's going to hook me to a heartrate monitor next week and test the theory.

She also suggested I keep a food diary (as if I don't!) and be really really detailed about it. She'll look at it and see if she can offer any recommendations.

Interestingly, she also said she doesn't give much credence to the caloric needs formulas. #1, all the answers are different, and #2, that's what hunger is for. There's no non-clinical way to measure an individual's metabolic rate, and that's what will affect caloric need. So, she said just keep doing the eat when hungry/don't eat when not hungry thing. That, I can do. It's when I try to really draw a definitive line that I get frustrated.

Lauren, I do Pilates twice a week. I have a bit left from yoga, too, so I'm well known for just randomly deciding to stand on one foot while waiting in line or something. I guess it's not balance, so much as it is grace. Now that I think about it, I can balance just fine, but I don't have rapid movement and I can't shift* my balance easily. Hmmmmmm.

Lauren, congrats on getting back to writing it down. That's the first step, as you well know, and I have no doubt you'll find your way from here.

Lin, breakthrough! I remember when your brother passed you remarked on how few people seemed willing to allow you time to mourn. Just remember that YOU are one of those people too, and YOU need to allow yourself time as well. I have every faith that you will get to a place where you are comfortable and fulfilled by your lifestyle.

Bye bye Turtles, I'm going to try swimming today and need to go buy a racer-back suit. :)

Erin, just another quick thought here before Lin changes the thread (since it's 2 pages already) -- have you tried martial arts? Talk about needing to shift your balance quickly and be agile! I've taken Tai Chi, which does require lots of balance and grace but isn't quick. If you're looking to add speed, why not try one of Tae Kwon Do or one of those?

Lin, I find if I don't get my exercise in *before* everything else, I don't do it. So I think you've hit on a good idea when you say you're going to try walking before you sit down to write.

I think seeing that high-ish blood pressure reading yesterday was a good kick in the butt for me. I don't know how much of it was just due to stress, but it reminds me of the reasons I started on WW in the first place. For my health. I'm still obese, even if I do feel and look so much better, and I want my body to be healthy. If I have borderline high blood pressure (and probably high cholesterol -- I'll be getting those results down the road), then I'm still not as healthy as I'd like. I'm built just like my grandmother, and she had years of heart trouble. It's in my genes, and it gives me pause.

It will give me peace of mind if I know I'm doing all that I can to make myself healthy BEFORE resorting to taking drugs. I want to put that day off as long as possible. That means regular exercising at a moderate (as opposed to a light) pace, possibly cutting back a bit on salt, and getting the weight off.

It's been a good wake-up call.

Onward and downward,

Lauren
274/191/184 by August 4 (my birthday)

Lauren, I have thought about martial arts. I love my kickboxing class at the gym (which I realize isn't really a martial art but oh well). I hesitate for two reasons: one, when do I find the time? And two, I'm extremely wary of damage to my arm. My doctors made a point of stressing to me on several occasions that if it was damaged again in the future they would not be able to repair it. Its pins-and-plates quota is full for this lifetime. They succeeded in scaring me, which I think was their goal, and now I'm hyper sensitive to any threat. The only reason I have an arm in the first place is because my mom shamed my doctor (the aptly named Dr. Kraft) into doing 9.5 hours of surgery to repair it instead of amputating.

But, maybe I should get over it and talk to senseis until I find one who will respect my limitations and keep me safe.

I have always liked to exercise (go out and play) so I never needed anything to kick me out the door, but I can sympathize with the health concerns. My skyrocketing blood pressure last fall scared me, as did the realization of just how ugly my genetic history is. Good thing is, now that I realize all of that there's no way I'm going to stop exercising! You've got your motivation, now just get up and go. :)

After Kelly asked me about the triathalon last week and I had to tell her I can't swim in a straight line (arms have different pulling distances) I decided to test that theory. It's been tested in the past, but hey, give it another try. So I went to Target and bought a cross-backed swimsuit, went to the gym and swam some laps.

What did I learn? SWIMMING IS HARD! :eek: WOW, that was rough. I did 16 laps (a quarter mile) and wow, was I done! I swam for about 20 minutes, and did I ever earn the right to stop! I'm going to try to go back twice a week, I think, and swim for 20 minutes. I think I'll adjust to the seasick-feeling with time. ;) And YES, I can swim in a straight line! :cool:

I'm at 162 points over 6 days, with 11 points already today. Lin, I'm thinking the same direction you are--not change anything dietary til I talk to the nutritionist. If you change half a dozen things at once, how do you know what worked? So I'm going with Erika's workout thought for now, and I'll talk to the nutritionist on monday, see what she says.

Bye Turtles!

Hi, Turtles,

Yes, it's that time. A new thread coming up. See you all there.

Lin