Weight Loss Surgery - Roux-en-Y anybody?




View Full Version : Roux-en-Y anybody?


skatardrummer
03-14-2009, 02:06 AM
My body refuses weightloss no matter what. Even after surgery, my body is loosing weight more slowly than most, but I have to say that the results of this even work for people with my condition! I was really skeptical because the way my body absorbs things, it's just impossible to loose weight normally. I mean, not even 10 pounds.

What Roux-en-Y actually does besides give you the pouch is shorten the absorbtion track of your digestive system. It's been 2.5 months since I had surgery and I've already lost 57 lbs!

After going through the classes, I wold recommend the sleeve and Roux-en-Y. I would not recommend the lap band, especially after watching my surgery get postponed because some poor woman came in with infection surrounding the darn thing. My surgeon didn't recommend it either. He has a 99.6% success rate last time I ran the numbers. That was only 1 unsuccessful operation out of over 300 because it was an 85 year old man for whom the surgery was his best chance.

If anyone has further questions about the surgery or what you'll be in for, I'd be happy to answer as much as I can. They literally gave me a manual, so I can get pretty specific if need be.


xbubloox
03-14-2009, 01:41 PM
57 LBS. is more that we could have done on our own and keep going... so be proud!

jillybean720
03-14-2009, 08:20 PM
I voted "other" - I am getting the Duodenal Switch, which I'm assuming your surgeon doesn't offer since you didn't mention it.

Just a note: the weight loss from RNY is promarily due to the restriction (small pouch) with little to do with the malabsorption (unless you're a distal). In patients with type 2 diabetes who were NOT morbidly obese, they have done the Duodenal Switch without vertical sleeve gastrectomy (left the stomach alone and just adjusted the intestines in a DS, which has much more malabsorption than the RNY), and patients lost little, if any, weight.


Chickadee
03-15-2009, 02:44 PM
I'm glad you're doing so well with your RNY. Keep it up!

I've had my band for 5 years (almost) and have not had a single problem with it. Different surgeons prefer different surgeries. That's why it's very important to shop around, research for a long time and make a decision based on what's best for your situation. RNY would not have been a good choice for me for a whole lot of reasons, although it may be a perfect choice for others. Are there days I wish I had the quicker weight loss RNY or DS would have given me - oh yeah. Do I regret my lapband? No way! There's going to be success stories and horror stories with any of the surgeries. Don't base your opinion on one doctor.

Chickadee

xbubloox
03-15-2009, 02:48 PM
True, True....

skatardrummer
07-07-2009, 08:20 PM
I voted "other" - I am getting the Duodenal Switch, which I'm assuming your surgeon doesn't offer since you didn't mention it.

Just a note: the weight loss from RNY is promarily due to the restriction (small pouch) with little to do with the malabsorption (unless you're a distal). In patients with type 2 diabetes who were NOT morbidly obese, they have done the Duodenal Switch without vertical sleeve gastrectomy (left the stomach alone and just adjusted the intestines in a DS, which has much more malabsorption than the RNY), and patients lost little, if any, weight.

Actually, one of the biggest medical problems resulting from Roux-en-y is malabsorption. It has to be heavily supplemented with vitamins, protein, and calcium.

I just put 3 of the most common surgeries in this area. "other" is listed for other. It's neat to learn about other surgeries. I haven't read much about DS because it wasn't necessary to, as no, my surgeon doesn't perform them. He also doesn't recommend Lap Band because of the lower weight loss and the fact that some people get infections from it. My body certainly would. It doesn't appreciate foreign objects, lol.

kiramira
07-07-2009, 08:23 PM
Did I read this right? Your MD did surgery on an 85 year old man? Without success? Did the patient not make it through the surgery? Is he still alive but morbidly obese? Which makes me wonder what the point of the surgery was?

Things that make you go hmmmmm.....

Kira

skatardrummer
07-07-2009, 09:50 PM
Did I read this right? Your MD did surgery on an 85 year old man? Without success? Did the patient not make it through the surgery? Is he still alive but morbidly obese? Which makes me wonder what the point of the surgery was?

Things that make you go hmmmmm.....

Kira

He was going to die otherwise. It was a last resort. I don't know the full details. A panel of doctors I guess agreed that it was his last hope. Apparently the insurance company thought there was hope or they wouldn't have agreed to it. He died, btw. He lived for a month or so I guess and then died from health complications. It was not necessarily completely related to the surgery. He had other health issues and the best hope for him was to have the surgery I guess.

jillybean720
07-08-2009, 11:06 AM
Actually, one of the biggest medical problems resulting from Roux-en-y is malabsorption. It has to be heavily supplemented with vitamins, protein, and calcium.

I just put 3 of the most common surgeries in this area. "other" is listed for other. It's neat to learn about other surgeries. I haven't read much about DS because it wasn't necessary to, as no, my surgeon doesn't perform them. He also doesn't recommend Lap Band because of the lower weight loss and the fact that some people get infections from it. My body certainly would. It doesn't appreciate foreign objects, lol.
Just to clarify, malabsorption is not a medical problem. Malabsorption may cause medical problems without proper supplementation and follow-up.

Also, after about a year or two, RNY patients will continue to malabsorb certain nutrients, but not calories (this is in terms of a proximal RNY, which is most common; distal is a different story). This is why the malabsorption component of RNY is not effective for long-term weight loss, so the restriction (pouch) is required.

I chose my surgery, then my surgeon. I could had RNY, band, or VSG 10 minutes from my home, but I chose instead to go about 2 hours away to get the surgery I really wanted and knew was right for me. I would have travelled even further if I had to - there just happened to be a DS surgeon within 2 hours of my home.

goincrazyinky
07-25-2009, 12:17 PM
Have read the statistics. Failure rate for lapband is so high and RNY people usually gain back all their weight. This is true for me and many people I know. Had RNY 9 years ago and the pouch and stoma stretched back out. So you have to measure your food to keep that from happening. My appetite became so strong after RNY 3 months out, that was because they are now founding out that your body produces higher insulin spikes as food dumps directly into the smaller intestine. People who have never had problems with high or low blood sugar usually do after RNY the latest research says. I lost a lousy 30 pounds from RNY. Now I am going to do what works. Five years after people have had the Duodenal Switch, they keep off 85% of their excess weight! And you get to eat normally. The DS only absorbs 50% of the calories you eat and only 20% of the fat you eat! I have talked to a lady who eats 3,000 calories a day typically. But, I do believe regardless of what surgery you need to pick healthy foods. You have to take vitamins with RNY as well as DS. It is critical to do this daily. I am researching a great deal as my husband and I both are having this done. We are 57 and 130 pounds overweight and can never stick to any diet.

goincrazyinky
07-25-2009, 12:24 PM
Most everybody loses weight the first year from RNY. But as the stomach stretches out and the stoma, they slowly regain what they have lost. Not a good long term solution. The lap band is so bad that you can only lose 45% of your excess weight and half of that is regained, so my surgeon said that is a waist of time in his opinion. The DS has the best long term results.

nanj
07-27-2009, 03:45 PM
I don't care what kind of program or surgery you have, if you don't learn to change your eating habits or get mental health help regarding your dependency on food, you are going to have problems. I know many people that have been successful on the RNY and lapband. They don't eat tons of food (it is not their main focus), they don't eat 3,000 calories a day, they drink their water and take their vitamins and stay within the bounds that were set up by their surgeons and nutritionist for the rest of their life. I know people who have gained on RNY and Lap and if you watch them eat....they aren't really tasting their food, haven't made any long term changes (they did well during the honeymoon period) eat tons of food and sugar and fats are their best friends. Their surgeries didn't fail them, they failed to change to make the surgeries successful. I know of a few who have gained during with a RNY and have go back to the basics (lot harder this time around) and have lost their weight again. I'm not as familiar with DS, but know a few people now who have been successful so far. Same old, same old: They do surgery on your gut, not your head. There is no brass ring in WLS. My goal in wls after almost two years: No regain, eat sensible more well-rounded meals, and constantly tell my head that I don't need to live for food that I need only a SMALL amount of food to live. Believe me, I don't go without many foods, but I do go without big bunches of food.
JMOP

kiramira
07-27-2009, 03:53 PM
This just begs the question, and I can't help myself, IF the surgery addresses your gut and not your head and your head is the problem which is why people gain weight after surgery, why not avoid surgery on your gut, fix your head, and lose the weight?

Kira

nanj
07-27-2009, 04:16 PM
Kira: Have you successfully done that? Fixed you gut and head problems and are no longer overweight? Why do people regain after they have lost 100s of pounds through diet and exercise? If it were that simple for most, it would have been so. You have been successful on your weightloss according to your stats, but I'll bet the majority of people on 3 Fat Chicks, can't and will never be able to say that. That is why the WLS is necessary for some people. The WLS gives you a fighting chance with a smaller stomach, exercise, mental health counseling and monitoring. I'll also be the average WLS patient has been on 30 to 40 weightloss plans before they ever get to even thinking about WLS. For those who have been bed bound or chair bound and hundreds of pounds overweight and just tell them to fix their head and lose the weight....it is redundant because it has been told to them many, many, many times. I don't know how old you are either, and when you have lived with a food-oriented head for over fifty years, gut altering seems like a pretty necessary thing for many.

kiramira
07-27-2009, 04:23 PM
I appreciate your points, but you yourself state that WLS is simply a tool. Not the answer. You can still have failure with WLS. And those who have it have no statistical increased chance of weight loss success.

It sounds to me that you acknowledge "the head" is the key, not "the gut". So why not pursue the exercise, mental health counselling and monitoring alone?

I am really trying to understand, because it is such a radical choice that doesn't seem to be the "key" to keeping the weight off. Your mindset is...

Kira

Idealmuse
07-27-2009, 04:46 PM
Kira -

I think in some cases the co-morbidites are so dangerous that it's better to fix the body and work on the head in the meantime... however I feel that the percentage of these cases is small and WLS is often taken up too soon. It really should be more of a last resort.

I also understand being at that place where you feel surgery is the only option, but I also know that as one of those people who felt it couldn't be done on your own... it really can. If you've lost any sizable chunk of weight in the past it's very likely you HAVE the capability to do this the natural way so if you can work on the head issues the body will follow...

Feeling trapped in a body that is 100+ 150+ 200+ body though is really unbearable at times. So unless you've been there its hard to understand why people would choose to put themselves through major surgery. Fixing the "head" issues isn't as easy as it sounds. Food addiction is a major issue that is hard to break/tame. Just because one person can break the cycle doesn't mean the next person can because we are all wired slightly different. However... you MUST still figure this out with WLS. So if one can try ONE last time to do it w/o... (because they HAVE to with WLS) why not give it one more go?

So my opinion is WLS has its place and everyone situation is different. It is over used though.

I'm thrilled that I figured out the way without surgery because I know I'm much more healthy fit and strong then I would have been with it, and I doubt I wouldn't be considering the fitness goals I am had i gone that route.

I did take me 18 years of obesity to get to this point though. That's A LOT of lost time.

annie175
07-27-2009, 05:25 PM
I had RNY and am doing fine.

kiramira
07-27-2009, 09:37 PM
I say, and have ALWAYS said that everyone has to find their own path. And those who choose WLS have clearly found a path for them. And who am I to say?

As I said before, I was offered this sugery when my BMI was 38.5, and after researching it, I chose another path because for ME there needs to be more evidence out there for me to take this as an option.

However, for others, they have clearly made the right choice for THEM. It is simply an issue of making sure ALL the facts are out there for those who are investigating this option and who might not be aware of the current studies. Often, the primary souce of information is given at conferences held by bariatric surgeones in conjunction with testimonials given by satisfiesd clients. There is MORE to the story, and this side of the story led me to choose my own path.

Which is why I am interested in HOW this decision was arrived at, and what factors led up to it.

And as I've said before, this post is in no way a judgement of those who chose this path. I simply am interested to understand why WLS and why a particular WLS type was chosen, just as the OP is interested.

So don't hate! Honestly!!!!

Kira

Institches21
07-28-2009, 02:58 AM
I also wonder, Why!! Why choose a major operation, if you can just learn to eat less of the wrong foods, and move more. Why, put your body through such an ordeal. Now for the posters who have tried the old fashion way and not had the results that they had from WLS, I ask why, what did you do or not do after WLS, that you couldn't of done without having the surgery?

Please, I'm only asking, no need to get defensive, this WLS is something that is near and dear to many of you, I just would like to understand, Why!

jiffypop
07-28-2009, 10:19 AM
Institches - how about, instead of asking us to repeat what we've written here many times, in many ways, that you take a look around the forum. we'll be happy to answer Qs after you've done some work to educate yourself on our motivation.

annie175
07-28-2009, 11:19 AM
Amen

kiramira
07-28-2009, 12:00 PM
Actually, I HAVE followed alot of stories, and they seem to be along the vein of : my body won't lose weight. I've tried everything and lost and regained. I'm tired of being so overweight. This was my last resort.

So I don't think there should be the super-defensive reaction. For GOD'S sake, NO ONE has to JUSTIFY their path to ANYONE. I think everyone keeps saying this over and over and over. And those who haven't had WLS certainly aren't posting on this thread or part of the forum UNLESS the question specifically invites ALL of us who are losing weight to participate. The poll at the top of this question certainly invites those of us who haven't had WLS to participate. And so did another thread, addressed specifically to those who HAVEN'T had the surgery...

Those of us who haven't chosen this path are really interested in understanding the WHY. The MOTIVATION. It isn't a judgement. We just truly don't understand and want to figure it out. I can question WHY Atkins' followers believe what they do, and get a rational answer. I can question the Medifasters and receive a rational response. Same goes for Whole Fooders, Vegans, and I've fielded many questions about WW. But for some reason, ANY question directed to WLS pathers results in a visceral, defensive response along the lines of "how DARE you have any questions" and "if you were more EDUCATED you wouldn't ask this".

It makes me wonder if WLS pathers feel stigmatized for their choice and if they are judging themselves harshly for choosing this path and are projecting this onto those of us who are well intentioned and down right curious about the WHY. And it makes me even more curious when threads NOT SPECIFIC to supporting those who have HAD the surgery are closed when info to complete the WLS picture is given.

So, what gives? Why the defensiveness? Why the choice for body-altering solutions?


And again, please don't hate. This isn't a judgement, just trying to understand.

Kira

jiffypop
07-28-2009, 12:24 PM
The OP [and poll poster] DID NOT invite outsiders to vote on whether WLS was a good idea or not. the OP asked about what form of surgery WE HAD. the other thread was an effort to provide some personal support to people who were CONSIDERING the surgery, and not necessarily to people who would NEVER think about doing it.

the defensiveness is because, although YOU are new to this forum, your questions are not. your statements are not. the data you present are not. in short, we deal regularly with people who come in asking for us to explain, discuss, address, justify ourselves, and for what end?

Every time we 'explain' we get to hear that we (1) were lazy (2) didn't do it right (3) were misinformed (4) didn't properly research the risks and benefits (5) took the easy way out (6) need the guidance of others

If you actually read the posts all over the forum, you will see that we CONSTANTLY AND CONSISTENTLY state that WLS is not the right choice for everyone. that the decision is NOT an easy one, and everyone needs to do their research, talk to everyone, look at the good, the bad, the ugly, and make the right choice for THEM. THERE ARE RISKS and we don't hide them. Some people have had nightmarish experiences, and they are welcome here, and they are encouraged to share. everyone needs to know and understand these truths.


It makes me wonder if WLS pathers feel stigmatized for their choice and if they are judging themselves harshly for choosing this path and are projecting this onto those of us who are well intentioned and down right curious about the WHY. And it makes me even more curious when threads NOT SPECIFIC to supporting those who have HAD the surgery are closed when info to complete the WLS picture is given.

We do not feel stigmatized. We are not projecting. We are not judging ourselves harshly for taking what we considered to be the appropriate course to improve our health. People who are well intentioned and downright curious are always welcome, but those who post very very old data from blogs that haven't been updated in more than two years should reconsider their motivation for posting.

If you are genuinely concerned, then provide REAL data - stuff that's in PubMed, published by surgical journals, NIH, abstracts from obesity and surgical meetings. On the other hand, if you wish to continue to put us on the defensive and waste our time by constantly asking us to explain ourselves, don't be surprised at our responses.

there is more than enough information on this forum for you to use to answer these questions you raise. And if you don't agree with our decisions, you are certainly free to participate in other forums.

kiramira
07-28-2009, 12:44 PM
OK, my last post on the subject:

1. OPs question: Have you have GBP? Sleeve, Roux-en-Y, Lapband, Other, NO

Which is why I answered the poll. NO I haven't had GBP. Clearly a general question. If the question was phrased "which type of WLS have you had" I wouldn't have answered.

2. Every time we 'explain' we get to hear that we (1) were lazy (2) didn't do it right (3) were misinformed (4) didn't properly research the risks and benefits (5) took the easy way out (6) need the guidance of others I don't recall EVER having said this in my post. I have ALWAYS said "who am I to judge the path that you choose". I just am interested to know WHY you have made the choice.

3. No one accused ANYONE of pushing your agenda. This part of the forum is for support for those with WLS. We all respect that. This isn't part of it at all. But when questions are posted inviting all opinions, accept what is given!!! Seriously!!!! If you are comfortable with your choice, why the aggressive responses? I don't get it...you can only put yourself on the defensive...we've ALL had our opinions and choices questioned on this 3FC forum. The ONLY area where I've seen such visceral defensiveness is here. And I just don't understand.

I wish you well on your path. I am glad that you have a path that works for you. It clearly isn't for everyone. And if you post urging others to take your path in a non-support-veined thread, please be prepared for responses that raise questions. If we don't QUESTION, we don't grow. And if the answers to those questions are "because" or "you are uneducated" or "you don't get it", it just makes us, well, MORE curious about the defensiveness and the apparent unwillingness to share your experiences outside of the WLS "club" so to speak...

Again, I wish you well. Have a happy life. Congratulations on your success. Enjoy your new body. And relax -- it really IS helpful...

Kira

4.

Institches21
07-28-2009, 12:46 PM
I'm sorry that I stopped by yesterday, seems I've offended some, if not all. Never my intention. I did start out to reply to you and post a few of my questions, but I don't think this is the time or place to ask them, Best of Luck.

jillybean720
07-28-2009, 02:57 PM
Good lord, such drama I've missed in the past day or two!

People have WLS either to improve/resolve comorbidities (such as cholesterol, blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, etc., not all of which are improved or resolved by weight loss alone, as certain surgeries inflict a metabolic change in the body) or to, well, lose weight after having failed at many diets in the past.

The difference, for many, is that the surgery FORCES you to follow certain rules. For example, before surgery, I used to be able to sit down and eat a whole pizza by myself. Now, I can have 2 slices of a small pizza (without the crust on the ends), and I am stuffed. Having a third slice is physically not an option. This helps to retrain my brain on proper portion sizes and gives me between 12-24 months to practice these new food skills (as opposed to before surgery where I would start a diet, get hungry/frustrated within a few weeks or months, and end up bingeing or making poorer food choices) before I could potentially stretch out my stomach, and even if I DO stretch out my stomach, it will NEVER be as big as it was before my surgery.

Now, that doesn't mean I can never gain weight, for, as we all know, calories still add up even if you're eating only a little bit but multiple times during the day. But it sure does help that I can't eat 3-4 servings at once anymore.

There are also many other factors that come into play, including ghrelin, malabsorption, supplements, etc., but I'll stick to the restriction aspect alone for now since that's the common factor in all the different surgery types.

"And those who have [WLS] have no statistical increased chance of weight loss success."
Now THAT is completely false. Based on recent published clinical data and national database statistics, those who lose significant amounts of weight via diet and exercise alone have about a 5% chance of maintaining the loss long term. 5%. At 5 years after WLS, the average success rates are along the lines of 45% for adjustable gastric banding, 55-65% for RNY, and 80-85% for DS.

I chose WLS, and the DS specifically, because it has a 92-100% chance of fully resolving my type 2 diabetes (as in, off all medicine, including insulin, and still having acceptable glucose and A1C readings, even at 5+ years after surgery). Type 2 diabetics trying to control their condition with diet and exercise alone have WAY less than a 92% chance of fully resolving their diabetes in the long term. As of 3 months after my surgery, I have stopped taking 1 of my diabetes meds completely and am only taking 1/5 the amount of the other I was taking prior to surgery. And my most recent labs showed all of my figures in the normal range - not the "good for a diabetic" range, but the normal, non-diabetic range. If I never lose another pound (and I still have 100 to lose), the 1 week I spent recovering from surgery has been more than worth it.

Idealmuse
07-28-2009, 03:41 PM
Against my better judgment I will reply again and leave it be....

I think the reason it comes off as defensive, is because you're not the only person who's asked these people. If you're asked to explain your very personal choice over and over you would get annoyed at some point too. I'm sure it's very frustrating. You might not see it as asking to explain but when you pose questions like why would one get surgery if they have to change their diet anyway isn't really rhetorical when you're posting in a group full of people who have HAD WLS. (Support Forum > Weight Loss Surgery) When you talk in bold and tell people in several posts to "not hate" (and who's hating here anyway?) then you can see why the defenses might come up it no longer feels like a friendly question.

I perhaps shouldn't have chimed in my 2c either... the only reason I saw it fit to reply because I WAS considering surgery at one point in a very serious way (and didn't have it) and I feel like I can pretty strongly see both sides of the fence.

Jennifer 3FC
07-28-2009, 04:32 PM
I'd like to remind everybody that this forum is titled "if you've had it, or are considering it..". I know some of you might not understand the defensiveness of the members of this forum, but I've seen the same questions here over and over for many years, of people asking WHY. Why is an ok question, unless you're the thousandth person to ask. I don't mean to be disrespectful with that, but in short, WLS folks answer these same questions over and over again, and in many cases they have to defend their actions. So if you have questions about why they did it for curiosity's sake, please feel free to read and research and dig as deep as you like on the forum, because it's all there.

If you are considering surgery yourself, please feel free to start a new thread and ask your questions.

Thanks!
Jennifer

goincrazyinky
07-29-2009, 11:34 AM
So many people have failed at RNY but you will see them if you search the boards, but many you won't because once you have had it with such great hopes then your stomach stretches back out and you are eating like you did before surgery at some point, the weight comes back on, like every other diet you have ever done and failed at it....that it is a very, very, difficult thing to get over. It took me 7 years to finally realize it was not my fault. I found out about the Duodenal Switch from the boards and all the people that have failed RNY and of course the lap band is a guaranteed to fail surgery, that there was hope. You can't fail at DS. It turns your metabolism into a skinny person who can eat all the time...you have seen those. People generally eat 3,000 calories a day and all of them have gotten all their weight off and have kept it off. There is 15 years of data on it that proves the success rate. The horrible tales of diahreah are just the first week after surgery...most have bowel movements once or twice a week, some more, but don't know anybody that has diahreah after surgery, that is why they take a little probiotic pill....or eat yogurt. I asked hundreds of questions about the labs long term out and everybody's labs are perfect, the key ingredient here is taking your daily vitamins just the same as you do when you have RNY. you can eat like a normal person and not gain the weight back after DS. Even Medicare approves it, and boy are they strict on what they approve! So finally I do not feel like a 'failure' anymore and i am not ashamed 'to show my face' on the boards to talk about the RNY as being a failure..oh at first you lose, but you seldom get to goal and then you gain most of it back and still are restricted in your eating. I just feel very sad that I did not know about the DS before the RNY. Most doctors don't want to do it because it is more difficult and takes longer to do and it is simply not true that you have deficiencies as long as you take vitamins...go see the DS board and talk to hundreds and hundreds who have perfect labs

goincrazyinky
07-29-2009, 11:37 AM
"I have the RNY November 6, 2003, so I wanted to make sure I got the years right, ha ha.

jillybean720
07-29-2009, 05:19 PM
So many people have failed at RNY but you will see them if you search the boards, but many you won't because once you have had it with such great hopes then your stomach stretches back out and you are eating like you did before surgery at some point, the weight comes back on, like every other diet you have ever done and failed at it....that it is a very, very, difficult thing to get over. It took me 7 years to finally realize it was not my fault. I found out about the Duodenal Switch from the boards and all the people that have failed RNY and of course the lap band is a guaranteed to fail surgery, that there was hope. You can't fail at DS. It turns your metabolism into a skinny person who can eat all the time...you have seen those. People generally eat 3,000 calories a day and all of them have gotten all their weight off and have kept it off. There is 15 years of data on it that proves the success rate. The horrible tales of diahreah are just the first week after surgery...most have bowel movements once or twice a week, some more, but don't know anybody that has diahreah after surgery, that is why they take a little probiotic pill....or eat yogurt. I asked hundreds of questions about the labs long term out and everybody's labs are perfect, the key ingredient here is taking your daily vitamins just the same as you do when you have RNY. you can eat like a normal person and not gain the weight back after DS. Even Medicare approves it, and boy are they strict on what they approve! So finally I do not feel like a 'failure' anymore and i am not ashamed 'to show my face' on the boards to talk about the RNY as being a failure..oh at first you lose, but you seldom get to goal and then you gain most of it back and still are restricted in your eating. I just feel very sad that I did not know about the DS before the RNY. Most doctors don't want to do it because it is more difficult and takes longer to do and it is simply not true that you have deficiencies as long as you take vitamins...go see the DS board and talk to hundreds and hundreds who have perfect labs
Honey, I'm as a big a fan of the DS as anybody, but I have to say - many people DO have long term success with other procedures, and it IS possible to fail (either never lose all your weight or end up regaining weight) with the DS. And not all DSers have perfect labs, and some DSers do have side effects or complications - not many, but some. I'm all about spreading knowledge of the DS, but I think it's misleading to say no one fails with the DS and to basically imply that everyone will fail with other procedures. There is no procedure with a guaranteed 100% success rate.

Leenie
07-29-2009, 07:54 PM
Honey, I'm as a big a fan of the DS as anybody, but I have to say - many people DO have long term success with other procedures, and it IS possible to fail (either never lose all your weight or end up regaining weight) with the DS. And not all DSers have perfect labs, and some DSers do have side effects or complications - not many, but some. I'm all about spreading knowledge of the DS, but I think it's misleading to say no one fails with the DS and to basically imply that everyone will fail with other procedures. There is no procedure with a guaranteed 100% success rate.

AMEN !

original_serendipity
07-31-2009, 05:46 AM
Wow, so much anger in this room... Ok, first and foremost, the modern duodenal switch STILL involves creating a smaller pouch, just not nearly as small as in an RNY. Second, most people who's surgeons opt for an RNY bypass do so because it changes the relationship between the pancrease and small intestine. This results, but not immediately, in a lower demand on the pancrease for insulin (which in most people with diabetes, PCOS or pre-diabetic conditions) and thereby lowers the insulin out put and can eliminate insulin resistance. Pre-surgery/pre-metformin, my insulin count was 13.8. I am 4.5 years post-RNY and my insulin count was 3.2 about 6 weeks ago. My A1C was 5.8 %. This evidence refutes the claim that the pancrease is inherently dumoing insulin unprevoked. This is just my body that I can prove this on. But I know I must follow these rules for the rest of my life if I want my "tool" to keep working for me. I have other health problems (lupus) that have arisen after having surgery, that were NOT caused by the surgery. I can't possibly imagine dealing with lupus and PCOS at 330 lbs.

jiffypop
07-31-2009, 10:44 AM
WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN SERENDIPITY????? glad to see you back and doing so very very well.

and, as always - a wonderful response. it's been a little weird around here - but i think things are getting back to normal.

what have you been up to???

jillybean720
07-31-2009, 03:42 PM
Wow, so much anger in this room... Ok, first and foremost, the modern duodenal switch STILL involves creating a smaller pouch, just not nearly as small as in an RNY. Second, most people who's surgeons opt for an RNY bypass do so because it changes the relationship between the pancrease and small intestine. This results, but not immediately, in a lower demand on the pancrease for insulin (which in most people with diabetes, PCOS or pre-diabetic conditions) and thereby lowers the insulin out put and can eliminate insulin resistance. Pre-surgery/pre-metformin, my insulin count was 13.8. I am 4.5 years post-RNY and my insulin count was 3.2 about 6 weeks ago. My A1C was 5.8 %. This evidence refutes the claim that the pancrease is inherently dumoing insulin unprevoked. This is just my body that I can prove this on. But I know I must follow these rules for the rest of my life if I want my "tool" to keep working for me. I have other health problems (lupus) that have arisen after having surgery, that were NOT caused by the surgery. I can't possibly imagine dealing with lupus and PCOS at 330 lbs.
The current DS does not involve creating a pouch - the stomach part of the procedure is a vertical sleeve gastrectomy where about 80% of the stomach is removed completely, and the pylorus at the bottom of the stomach remains fully intact and in use (as opposed to with the RNY pouch where the pylorus is bypassed and left at the bottom of the blind remnant stomach).

I'm not sure if the rest of your post was intended to be information for RNY in general, or in contrast to the DS (since there was no spearation after the DS tatement), but the DS also inflicts a metabolic change due to the intestinal reconfiguration and, in fact, has higher resolution rates for insulin resistance, type 2 diabetes, etc., than the RNY (not saying the RNY can't or doesn't work because it very clearly does for many people, but studies show an even higher rate of success with the DS).

Before my DS, my most recent A1Cs were 8.1 and 7.9 with a fasting glucose in the 180s on morning of surgery, and that was with being maxed out on metformin and also taking Januvia. At my 3-month post-op labs, my A1C was 5.4 and fasting glucose 90, after having ditched the Januvia on surgery day and cut my metformin to less than half. Now, I am on 500mg metformin until my next labs at 6 months post-op, at which time, if my levels are still this good, I can kiss all my meds good bye!

Diabetes (and anything involving insulin resistance that can lead to diabetes) is just plain evil - I am so thankful we have these surgical options that are far more effective than diet and exercise alone.

original_serendipity
08-01-2009, 04:36 AM
I agree with Jill! Having such health problems that are so difficult to control really is torture. My apologies for my misinformation about the DS. I got my info from this link, I believe it was up to date as of 2006. http://www.duodenalswitch.com/procedure/procedure.html Please let me where I can find more accurate technical info, I would really appreciate it.

Hi Jiff!!! How are you?? Sorry I ditched y'all for so long. The past few years have been kind of harsh. I found out last week I have severe lupus, left my husband about 2.5 years ago, had to stop working out a year ago because my resting heart rate was 150-180 and I COULDN"T STOP LOSING WEIGHT, got laid off, went back to work, finally went on state disability because I was too exhausted to get out of bed, went on heart meds, gained 52 lbs, lost 7 very carefully and am officially on bedrest, lol. But I still have my sense of humor and my sense of compassion (I hope)! All in all, things are getting better. I finally am on the right treatment and I plan on going back to school this fall.

Leenie
08-01-2009, 07:42 AM
WOW Girl, sounds like a rough ride :hug:

School !!! very cool, congratulations.

jillybean720
08-01-2009, 11:47 AM
I agree with Jill! Having such health problems that are so difficult to control really is torture. My apologies for my misinformation about the DS. I got my info from this link, I believe it was up to date as of 2006. http://www.duodenalswitch.com/procedure/procedure.html Please let me where I can find more accurate technical info, I would really appreciate it.

That link is correct - it says what I said:
"Unlike the unmodified BPD and RNY, which both employ a gastric “pouch” and bypass the pyloric valve, the DS procedure keeps the pyloric valve intact. This eliminates the possibility of dumping syndrome, marginal ulcers, stoma closures and blockages, all of which can occur after other gastric bypass procedures."

Partial gastrectomy, not a pouch.

I commend you on maintaining your senses of humor and compassion - I've had family members with lupus, and I know it can be very difficult to handle (there is conflicting info on whether or not it may be hereditary, so I am always on the lookout for certain signs and symptoms myself). It sounds like you're in a pretty good place right now, despite the roller coaster it sounds like you've been on for the past couple of years!

jiffypop
08-01-2009, 11:07 PM
good heavens, OS!!!!!!!!! what a nightmare! and it took them THIS LONG to diagnose lupus? they'll get it under control, right? and you're with a specialist, right???? there are some great docs in san diego.

but now that you're back, you're gonna hang out with us more, right??? i'm sounding like a nag, right? LOL!!!!!!!!!

original_serendipity
08-02-2009, 03:57 AM
Thanks Jill! My younger sister has a relly mild form of systemic lupus. She had all the blood tests come back positive before she was symptomatic. I don't know how old you are, but if you suddenly find yourself questioning if you're going through early menopause because of hot flashes and night sweats, then I would start asking questions, lol. My mom has psoriasis and her twin sister has sarcoidosis. Lupus in and of itself isn't considered hereditary, but the odds of getting it are a bit higher if an immediate family member who also has it. Something about being gentically pre-disposed to auto-immune disease, if I remember correctly. I have all the physical symptoms and the only positive test I had was an anti-phospholipid antibody test. It isn't uncommon for a definitive diagnosis to take as long as 10 or 15 years. 20% of people with auto-immune diseases never test positive, so they end up with more severe problems because of a lack of treatment. But I do ok. I'm having some of my worst days yet but I know that I need to be around other people as much as I can. Someone once told me that spending too much time in your own head is like being in a bad neighborhood. But enough of that! This isn't Oprah! lol I guess the pictures on the website for DS confused me, hehehe. My weight has been pretty stable and slowly losing again but my sleep schedule is soooooo upside down. I run a fever at night and it's impossible to sleep when I do, so I end up going to sleep if/when it breaks. Yes, I have a FABULOUS rheumatologist! He's written or contributed to more than 20 books and numerous other publications for lupus. We definitely have world-class medical care here. I couldn't have been in a better place. I am hopeful that once I get things under control, I will be able to have a consistent schedule and work-out plans again. My biggest fear is that this bone-crushing, breath-stealing fatigue will never go away. I went down this path of surgical weightloss to improve my health and quality of life. I am holding out to see normal energy levels again.
Don't worry, Jiff! You're not nagging, lol. This is where I need to be. I think... lol

jiffypop
08-02-2009, 06:46 PM
seriously - if there's anything i can do to help, just holler. you KNOW i have certain information resources available -

sounds like your family would make GREAT subjects for a study of the heritability of autoimmune diseases.

original_serendipity
08-03-2009, 01:11 AM
I will definitely keep that in mind, Jiff. Thank you!! I am convinced the the auto-immune problems are related to my grandmother taking a drug call DES that used to be prescribed for miscarriage prevention ages ago. It was confirmed that female children born to women who took this drug during that pregnancy were born with reproductive disorders. For years, no one conducted further studies except Canada who found that 3rd generation exposure (original grandmother's grandkids) boys had an astronomically high incidence of auto-immune disorders and that 3rd generation girls had higher occurances of reproductive disorders.