Living Maintenance - What Makes Maintainers Successful? (formerly "reading old threads")

I've been reading some older threads here on 3FC, some that date back 1-2 years... and it's drepressing! Not the posts themselves, but when I look at the date/time stamp and see that the poster wrote that post over a year ago and then I look at their signature and they've made very little progress in that time... Anyway, it just brings home how difficult it really is for people to lose weight and keep it off.

The longer I live in this "weight loss world" the more I'm realizing that very few people have the strength to do this, even with support. A side blurb of that recent Harvard study about calories being the biggest factor in weight loss -- the participants had all the professional support they could dream of and they STILL couldn't keep the weight off.

I think this has been brought up before in the Living Maintainence forum, but... what is the x factor that made us successful? Why are we the few, the proud, the slender?

Funny, I was thinking just that the other night.
Some people have done wonderful things.
Some people have done wonderful things a long time ago and are maintaining.
Some, like me, have done wonderful things, and are doing them again, for the Third Time.

I seek no-one else to blame, no situation to blame - although I've had some rough times this past few years and I've chosen to use those times as my excuse, in reality I made the choice not to stay healthy. Idiot.

I am determined that this will be my last time, last and successful time, I mean. I don't say that/write that very often because, at 53 and my weight, I sometimes worry that it will be my last time, literally..... but: I said that in 2004 and I meant it.

So, I appreciate your question about the X factor but have you any thoughts yourself? I would genuinely appreciate knowing.

Congratulations on your maintenance, by the way!

what is the x factor that made us successful? Why are we the few, the proud, the slender?

It's a tough question. And I don't think there is any one answer.

First thing that comes to mind is, is that this is HARD. Really, really hard. I think people also tend to forget just how incredibly worth it is.

I think the biggest factor has to be the amount of desire that we all have in keeping the weight off. And since we desire it so much, that we therefore make it a tippy top priority in our lives.

I know for me, this would never work if I didn't make it that tippy top priority. I take this maintenance stuff very, very seriously. Keeping this weight off is without a doubt one of the most important things in my life. I know that may sound overly dramatic, but that is how I feel. I hold *it* on a pedestal, so to speak. It's like some grand prize to me. Like I hit the Mega Millions Jackpot (only I worked like a fiend to get it, so much more satisfying). It actually feels like a privilege to me. Like I was given a second chance and I don't want to do anything to blow it. It's hard for me to explain, but after being so morbidly obese for so long, well, there are just no words to truly describe just how much I adore and LOVE beyond belief being a slender person. And I want to always be that way. Forever and ever. And I am willing to do whatever it takes to stay here. That right there can be key. I am willing to do whatever it takes.

But I'm no fool. I'm only maintaining about 19 months. I know the second I stop making it that priority, that the weight will come right back on. And of course that would be my choice. I certainly plan on continuing to make it a top priority. But, you never know. You just never know. And it scares the living H#*& out of me. I just hope I can remain scared enough to always stay on my toes. At least until I hit my 80's or so. Cause then, I'm easing up! ;)

It could be that some people have faced a stressful time or are dealign with illnesses that makes it harder to maintain.

It could be that some people have faced a stressful time or are dealign with illnesses that makes it harder to maintain.


True. But there are PLENTY of slim people who face stressful times and are dealing with illnesses. Plenty. Plenty. Plenty. They have learned to DEAL with those stresses, illnesses and all that life has to throw them in a different manner, one OTHER then food.

That's not to say there won't be times where it is more difficult to keep the focus at the same intensity.

Its true that long term weightloss statistics make depressing reading however I just hope that I'm going to be one of the 5% who makes it THIS time. I am certain that its possible to maintain a large weightloss if you CHOSE to. I agree with Robin about priorities. The reason I've gained weight after losses in the past is that I chose to let other things be more important in my life and those choices were probably the right things for me at that time in my life (studying in my 20s, establishing my career in my late 20s, caring for my young family in my 30s and caring for myself after emergency surgery in my early 40s). All these things took time, energy and commitment and were a higher priority in my life. Now my kids are older, my career is where I want it to be and I'm restored to full health I have made my weightloss goals a priority in my life. I too hope that something doesn't come along that will make my weight less of a priority but I can't say for sure that it won't.

Kitty

I'm terrified of regaining the weight.

I've done it before.

I'm not sure "strength" is the right word, necessarily, but then I don't know what would be a better word.

I think this time the stars aligned: I had the experiences of losing and regaining before (and I learned a TON from that---such as, if I go back to my old behaviors, I regain the weight), I have the wealth of knowledge here on the maintainers subforum, I have the support here, I set up checks and balances for exercise (partners, trainers, posting food and exercise plans).

But I know most people gain it back. And keeping that knowledge, and fear (yeah, it's fear for me) in the front of my brain, keeps my behaviors as a priority.

I do make it a huge priority in my life. When I lost a parent earlier this year, it was not a priority and I regained a little. Yes, maintaining my weight loss was very important to me, but that period of grief with my family taught me an important lesson to myself about my maintenance - it isn't the most important thing to me after all.

I know, that I am very lucky. I don't have kids, or have to cook to please someone (a little for my boyfriend, but he is supportive). I don't have a lot of junk in the house. I have come up with a black and white strategy for dealing with free food at work (I don't eat it, period).

I think one of the reasons I am so successful is I am able to take the time to be selfish about myself. I have the time to cook, go to the grocery store umpty times per week, pack lunches, fit in exercise. I know there are some people with families or busy school schedules who struggle to make time for the things I am able to do nearly effortlessly. I don't have to pick up kids from day care, for example. I know that busier people can do this - but I appreciate the struggle.

And of course, the temptation/addiction that is food. I know one of the reasons I am successful personally is because I put a bunch of stuff on an "I DONT EAT THAT" list. Fast food, sugar soda, most fried foods, packaged baked goods, cream based sauces - they are non entities in my life. Oh, I still struggle with food, but eliminating enormorous categories of troublesome foods freed me.

Everyone has to come up with their own techniques, I don't believe there is one plan that fits everybody. What works for me would probably not work exactly for a single person in the world but me. It is key to make it important, that is definite. But the other stuff? All the menu planning, shopping, cooking, meal prep stuff that I do, is it necessary or just necessary for me?

I feel for everyone who struggles. I have several posters on this board who I just love and I read their posts and wish wish wish I could help. There are some people who stopped posting and I am worried about them.

I don't know if it would make people feel better or worse to know that I still feel like it's a lifelong struggle myself. I don't feel "cured" or a like a "skinny normal person." I feel like someone who has to look at every single bite that goes in my mouth - for the rest of my life. I might be able to shut it off for one meal (mostly, I still mentally slap my hand if I go for the bread basket more than once), but I recognize that to be a successful maintainer means I need to be mindful, forever.

I think one of the reasons I am so successful is I am able to take the time to be selfish about myself. I have the time to cook, go to the grocery store umpty times per week, pack lunches, fit in exercise. I know there are some people with families or busy school schedules who struggle to make time for the things I am able to do nearly effortlessly. I don't have to pick up kids from day care, for example. I know that busier people can do this - but I appreciate the struggle.

We talk about time a lot here. I do happen to have a family - 3 kids and a DH. My time (as is everyone's) is VERY precious to me. But this maintenance thing, I make time for it. That's it. Like all things that are vital, you make time for it. No matter how far you're stretched. Anything that truly matters in this life, my family, my career, running my household, my friendships, my well being - all require commitment, focus, patience, determination and - time. And you find a way, some how, some way to make it work.

When I lost a parent earlier this year, it was not a priority and I regained a little. Yes, maintaining my weight loss was very important to me, but that period of grief with my family taught me an important lesson to myself about my maintenance - it isn't the most important thing to me after all.

This is a good point. And can't be overlooked. I so clearly remember when this happened in Glory's life. And I said to myself, "well, yeah, Glory absolutely can NOT make her weight a number one priority right now. And inevitably you gain. Such is life. I believe that's all PART of maintenance. BUT, then things begin to get back to normal (as normal as it can after such a loss) and then your focus is able to shift again, BEFORE it gets out of hand. And I can't speak for Glory, but I'm fairly certain, that some semblance and restriction and caution was kept in tact, even with all of the unusual circumstances surrounding that particular period.

So again, I think the bottom line is - just how important you make this. Just how badly you want this. Just how much it matters to you.

I think the X factor is really the whole entire key to weight loss. If we could just understand that one thing, then weight loss would be a dream and easy to maintain.

However, there are just so many things about the human body that we don't understand. So much of weight loss is a combination of food, movement, mental, and biochemical factors that maybe it is just a matter of luck for those maintainers that have happened to stumble on the combo that covers all these aspects.

Obesity is a chronic incurable disease. It has to be treated as such using food and exercise as medication (as well as 'real' medication itself at times) for your whole life. Just because a maintainer isn't obese anymore, it doesn't mean they still don't suffer from obesity. Does that make sense?

I, too have lost and regained , more than once. I do not want to start that vicous cycle again I have maintained for 14 months, not a long time but I am doing it. I have a very serious illness now and having lost weight is a good thing regarding my physical health. I, like others believe it must be a priority if you want to keep it off. I think about it A LOT .

Just because a maintainer isn't obese anymore, it doesn't mean they still don't suffer from obesity. Does that make sense?

Yes, it makes perfect sense. I feel this way.

Obesity is a chronic incurable disease.

Yes, I believe it is. Which is why I treat it as such. Which is why I've put so many guidelines and rules into my life. Which is why I make it SUCH a priority in my life. All to combat and manage, since I can't cure, my *disease*, my debilitating and deadly disease.

maybe it is just a matter of luck for those maintainers that have happened to stumble on the combo that covers all these aspects.


But here is where I respectfully disagree with you. I don't think luck has much to do with it - at all. I believe it's hard work that's involved. And the willingness to do that hard work. I don't think I've stumbled across anything - I think I've seeked out and discovered what could work for me - and then I made it work.

In fact, to show how strongly I feel about this, take a look at my signature. :)

Edited to add: I believe the best plan in the world, whatever that may be, no matter what that is for any individual - will not work unless you make it work and continue to make it work. Losing weight and keeping it off does not happen by accident.

I wondered how I would be able to maintain my loss as I had failed before. I looked at those who had lost and maintained for a long period of time. Most of them say they keep it off the same way they lost out. WHAT A CONCEPT !!! Now I am still counting calories, still planning all meals ahead of time. still keeping a food log. still exercising as I can. And I am still keeping it off .

Priorities, commitment, balance, and awareness.
I agree with Robin that is isn't about luck. I HAVE lost weight before, and regained every once of it - twice. So, what is different this time? How do I KNOW that I will not regain it? And I really do believe that. I am not fearful about re-gaining.

1. Making a lifestyle change - a real one, not a professed one. I am changed forever. This was not part of the program, plan, or results in my past attempts.

2. Changing my priorities - when I stopped "dieting" in the past, my priorities shifted away from my health and fitness. Taking care of myself moved lower and lower on the list, and finally - it was so low that I forgot it existed.

3. Which leads to the third difference - awareness. I am aware of what could happen if I slip into mindless old ways. Thus, I have set some things in motion that help me to stay focused, aware, and healthy. My lifestyle changes include:

~giving away every single piece of clothing that is even a bit too large.

~asking my family to help me stay accountable - to honestly show their concern for me if I begin to stray. In the past, they did not do so because the felt I would be hurt by their comments - OK, honestly they DID show their concern, and I WAS hurt, and lashed out, and they learned to keep their concerns to themselves. They now know that it OK to express their love and caring - sooner rather than later. And, we do this for each other. Lovingly asking - do you want to split that dessert when the opportunity arises ;)

~weighing myself daily, and still tracking my calories. I still plan my eating, my shopping and my food preparation.

~exercising daily - even if I don't feel like it. I chose WHAT I will do each day, not IF I will do each day.

~balancing my life with things that are important to me - this has virtually eliminated my stress, and stress eating. Prayer and meditation, exercise, eating healthfully, work, and play all make it onto the calendar - every day.

Hah. I wish I had a satisfying answer, one that would work for everyone, because it would sure make things easier.

I won't go through the ups and downs that were mine, but I think that one thing that has made it possible *for me* was that I changed my ways of eating not only to lose weight, but to be in good health in other areas of my life. See the motto under my avatar. Since it's targeted at several areas, it is a "priority" I tend to keep in mind more easily. For instance, I know I cannot be efficient at school and at work if I'm sluggish due to bad food and lack of exercise, therefore I do it. I know from experience that my tendency to SAD is exacerbated if I don't eat well enough, therefore I eat my fruits and vegetables.

I guess it amounts to: "I want to be in good health" is a goal that was, all in all, too vague for me to stick to it in the long run (but it's a good goal, of course!). "I want to be in good heath so that my mind can efficiently focus on school work and help me pass my exams and get a career" works better, because I can rationally see and understand how exactly it affects my life in more of one of its aspects.

Uhm, I don't know if this makes sense. I hope it does. It's about effort, but effort is less of a chore if I can "rationalize" it in more precise ways?

*Here you can see that Kery definitely doesn't function well on 4 hours of sleep. Gah.*

Boy, what a great thread with so much great advice all packed in.

This is the *first* and hopefully only time that I've lost a significant amount of weight and I am also terrified of regaining. I've lost smaller amounts in the past but never gotten to my goal before.

I also make my maintaining a major goal and priority in my life. I also have many foods that I just won't eat now-- period. And I also have the black and white rule about not eating free food at work-- unless it is fruit or something healthy. I am at risk of losing my job as are many of the people I work with (we are in a school with a major budget crisis)-- this week the administrators put out a huge spread of bad foods for us-- telling us we are appreciated and they know the stress we are under. My immediate thought was--they want us to be unemployed and fat-- no thank you! I walked away....

But here is where I respectfully disagree with you. I don't think luck has much to do with it - at all. I believe it's hard work that's involved. And the willingness to do that hard work. I don't think I've stumbled across anything - I think I've seeked out and discovered what could work for me - and then I made it work.



Maybe luck wasn't quite the right word to express what I meant there. I meant more that a person who has been able to figure out all the tools that they need are fortunate to have done so, not lucky in the lottery sense.

They are fortunate to have figured out all the keys, when so many only able to figure out some, but then struggle because they do not understand all the other factors, and therefore regain weight without understanding why and then feel like miserable failures. Then the same individuals will just do the parts that worked initially over and over with the same results.

Whatever the keys are for an individual, the constant ability to keep up on them is what sets maintainers apart from non-maintainers.

Maybe luck wasn't quite the right word to express what I meant there. I meant more that a person who has been able to figure out all the tools that they need are fortunate to have done so, not lucky in the lottery sense.

I see what you're saying. I can't help but feel that perhaps the stars were aligned, if only just a little. Things seemed to fall into place. Another way I've heard it described around here is "the click".

I know it's possible to get it done in a different way, but that was my experience.

Lots of interesting ideas... My take on this is a little different, though. I do not intend maintenance to be an endless road of constant vigilance, enormous effort, and steely will power.

I do not believe will power alone is the answer, although it is an absolutely necessary component.

Constant vigilance says to me that there are unresolved issues. Has the lifestyle really changed, or is one simply living in an artificially imposed state of scarcity... and with the least little slip-up, there's a huge danger one will fall right back into the old lifestyle?

Does one maintain by eating 1200 cals. a day all week long, so one can eat a lot of dangerous foods on the weekend?

Nope. I'm not going there.

I am changing my relationship to food and my body along with it. I know I will always have to pay attention to what I'm doing with food. That's a given. I should have been paying attention all along--I think that's the main difference between me and a lifelong normal-weight person.

The times I regained in the past were when I stopped paying attention, got too weak, and gave up. I'm talking about having developed some really bad habits with food, namely: I can have whatever I want, whenever I want it, without any consequences. That kind of attitude can get you in trouble with anything! You name it--alcohol, drugs, sex, gambling, stamp collecting!

What I'm looking for now is something that I don't give up--because it's become second nature, not because I have a metallic will.

I personally reject the notion of having a disease called "obesity." For me that's the wrong model.

Jay

I know for me, this would never work if I didn't make it that tippy top priority. I take this maintenance stuff very, very seriously. Keeping this weight off is without a doubt one of the most important things in my life. I know that may sound overly dramatic, but that is how I feel. I hold *it* on a pedestal, so to speak. It's like some grand prize to me. Like I hit the Mega Millions Jackpot (only I worked like a fiend to get it, so much more satisfying). It actually feels like a privilege to me. Like I was given a second chance and I don't want to do anything to blow it. It's hard for me to explain, but after being so morbidly obese for so long, well, there are just no words to truly describe just how much I adore and LOVE beyond belief being a slender person. And I want to always be that way. Forever and ever. And I am willing to do whatever it takes to stay here. That right there can be key. I am willing to do whatever it takes.



Brilliance. Sheer, unadulterated brilliance. Yeah, just "sign my name" (as they say) to her post.

ETA: I am still on my journey to slender. Robin and others like her remind me that it is possible.

This has been a fascinating read - hope you don't mind a (very) pre-maintainer posting again. It's a big help, even with still a long way (74lbs) still to go.
The first time I lost and got to goal, in my 20s, I thought my unhappy life would change. It didn't. I panicked and re-gained.
The second time I lost and got to goal, in my 40s, I was much more contented about my life, so expected nothing much to change with the weightloss. It didn't but I was very, very happy with my health, fitness and looks. What I'm saying is, I got what I expected this time, no disappointments, so I still don't know why I re-gained. Apart from lack of prioritizing.
It may sound a bit navel gazing - if only I could see my navel - but I do worry a bit that if I can't work out why I've succeeded spectaculary and let it all go to pot twice, maybe I'll mess up again.
However, this time, while I'm trying to work out the psychology, I promise to keep in control, both of the weightloss and the maintenance.

You guys are awe-inspiring, genuinely motivating, thankyou.

Fiberlover, I do see your point - somewhat.

The only thing that I feel somewhat lucky for and lucky isn't the right word - the word would be grateful. I feel very, very grateful, blessed in fact, that I somehow had that "click" that Junebug said. That is what I am grateful for. That I did indeed have that lightbulb moment.

As far as finding the right tools, I still believe that having all those tools mean nothing, nothing, unless you are willing to use those tools. Like I said earlier, the best plan for each every one of us, whatever it may be, will stop working unless we continue to make it work. I am grateful for the intense desire I have to keep on making it work.

What I'm looking for now is something that I don't give up--because it's become second nature, not because I have a metallic will.


Constant vigilance says to me that there are unresolved issues.

Jay, this maintenance thing is no hardship for me. It is a joy and a pleasure to be able to be able to put forth this effort. I enjoy it immensely. And it HAS become second nature to me. It has become what I do and who I am. The old Robin is gone. Gone. Gone. This IS a new me. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't require care and nuturing. It doesn't mean I can sit back and relax. I am on top of it. Just like I'm on top of all things that matter and have value to me. My children. My husband. My finances. My lovely home. My friendships. My career. I value them. I put time into them. I watch them closely. I give them my all. I now value my health and my well being. And it warrants time and energy to work. Like any commitment does. Sometimes these commitments are easier and sometimes they're harder. Sometimes they go smoothly, sometimes they're rougher. You go with the flow and do what is required. You stop putting forth your best effort and they will suffer. Period.

I look back and think how utterly absurd it was that I didn't put forth so much effort towards being a healthy weight years ago. It just seems ridiculous to me that I left something so incredibly important up in the air. Why wasn't I monitoring what I was eating ages ago? Why in the world wasn't I paying attention to this all along?

Yes, I am grateful that it finally clicked for me. I am grateful that now it makes perfect sense to me to track and monitor what I ingest.

Constant vigilance says to me that there are unresolved issues.

I am not ashamed to admit I have unresolved issues about food.

Sure wish I knew the secret of staying a member of the club of those who keep it off. I'm with those who feel like the slippery slope is always there to the left and right of the trail. I'm on the verge of reaching two years at my maintenance weight yet I still feel it's tenuous, and vigilance is required.

I agree with those who say it's hard work. That didn't surprise me, but it did surprise me that the work was done the day before in planning and preparing for today. The Beck strategies that work for me require me to plan my meals for tomorrow. It amazes me how quickly I find that boring, and how easily I find good reasons to put it off. However, when I face a buffet without a plan in my head, I end up with a large plate (or two) instead of a well chosen single plate. It bugs me that I have to plan that in my head, but I do.

I am not ashamed to admit I have unresolved issues about food.


As do I. But that's okay. I don't feel like I have to have all of the answers right now. I can continue to work on my unresolved issues at a healthy weight, while eating planned, healthy foods, and running and lifting weights. My body responds to the behaviors, not my mind games. It's baby steps for me.....I'd rather fight for it and be physically healthy doing it than regain the weight just cause I haven't solved my binge-stress eating issues 100%. I'm a work in progress and I do look at this whole journey as an issue to be managed through choices. It's another way we are all different.

Now I have a better chance of living long enough to figure it all out. ;) Maybe someday I'll have it all figured out.....A girl can dream!

I think sometimes LUCK is involved. There were many times in my life when I spent far more time, energy, and bone-crushing effort into losing weight, and still had such a difficult time that I really thought I must literally be insane to feel so hungry all of the time.

A bit of luck in finally finding a doctor willing to let me try eliminating periods by changing my bc (like Seasonique) to help control hormonal hunger, and finding the carb (even healthy carb) link to out of control cravings and hunger, have finally allowed me to lose weight without feeling like a caged and starving animal 24/7 in order to lose weight.

Yes, my progress according to many is "depressingly slow," but I'm not depressed. I'm extremely happy that I at least have found the secret to not gaining (I haven't had a significant weight gain in 4 years). I'm not afraid of gaining back, because I'm making slow, gradual changes that I know I can sustain. Instead of trying to find what allows me to lose weight fastest, and hope to heck I can stand living that way for the rest of my life, I decide what changes I AM willing to make forever and do just those. If as I succeed, I decide that I'm willing to do just a little more forever, I do that. Eventually that will get me to my goal weight, or to the weight at which I'm willing to do nothing more to lose further, which may be a temporary or permanent condition. No one except I can or should decide whether my goal weight will change over time, up or down.

Weight loss is like a lot of "use it or lose it," skills. No more a terrible or good thing than any other. Yes, there are folks who are thin all of their lives (some without trying and some with intense effort). There are folks also who were once great musicians who lost their talent because they spent too much time doing other things. There are folks who were once fluent in foreign language(s), who are no longer, because they didn't continue to use the skills. Body builders and athletes, who lost muscle and gained fat because they ate like athletes, but didn't keep up the athletic workouts.

There are some things you can (at least allegedly) learn once and never forget, others take continued effort. Weight loss/maintenance, for the most part, is a use it or lose it skill, but that isn't how we're sometimes taught to think about it. There are still a lot of people who believe that maintenance will be easier than dieting (I think it's probably harder, with all the little voices inside your head and on the outside from well-meaning friends and relatives telling you that you can "afford" to eat a little piece of this or that, when you've reached your goal weight).

Weight loss being a fairly complicated skill (much like playing a musical instrument) can be one of those balls that are easily dropped when other things in life interfere. We wouldn't bat an eye at a woman who said she didn't have time for piano practice after her children were born, but a woman who gains weight is open to criticism as to "how could she let herself go." Easy enough answer, she let other things become a higher priority.

If I look at all of my lifelong struggle with my weight, it can easily be just a matter of not giving my physical health the same priority that I did other things in my life - my education, career, volunteer projects, social life. And all of the things I put first, were very important - and I made some astonishing accomplisments in those other areas, and maybe my priorities "should" have been different, but some of the areas I excelled in were such amazing parts of my life, I can't completely regret choosing them over weight loss.

I am not ashamed to admit I have unresolved issues about food.

Me too. Me too. I kinda glossed right over what Jay said the first time. But yes, I DEFINITELY have unresolved food issues. Which is why I believe, like I said earlier, that I haven't been *cured* of my * disease*. Not sure if I ever will be.


My relationship with food has most definitely CHANGED DRASTICALLY, but yes, some of the same issues and tendencies that led me to be morbidly obese are still lurking in the background. Sometimes in fact, they're pretty close to the surface. But that doesn't mean I have to give into those tendencies. I can and have set up roadblocks to insure that I put the brakes on certain behaviors. And it certainly didn't mean that I had to wait and put my life on hold and in jeopardy any longer while waiting to "clear up" those issues.

Jay, Rereading your post, the first two statements that I highlighted kind of contradict one another. You don't intend maintenance to be an endless road of constant vigilance, yet you know you will always have to pay attention to what you're doing with food or as in the third statement, because when you don't - that is when you gain back the weight.

I do not intend maintenance to be an endless road of constant vigilance


I know I will always have to pay attention to what I'm doing with food.

The times I regained in the past were when I stopped paying attention,

I think many (most?) of us would prefer to not have to put so much time/energy/attention/care/whathaveyou - into maintenance - but I think the succesful ones (of which I plan to be) know that you can't have your cake and eat it too (pun intended ;)). You just can't have it both ways.

My finances would be a total disaster if I didn't monitor the situation. My household would not run smoothly if I didn't put forth the effort into that I do. My marriage would not be what it is if I didn't put in the time and energy and care that I put in to it. My children would not be who they are today if I hadn't (and will continue to do so) spent as much time and energy and effort on them as I did/do. My dear, dear friendships wouldn't be half as dear (or even exist) if I didn't MAKE the effort to nuture them and make them what they are. My job - I do it well. I am good at it. It takes a lot of time and energy to do so. I have a new and budding career that I'm working on and I spend a LOT of time on it. A LOT. I am throwing my heart into it. And if I want it to be successful - I need to continue to do so. Otherwise it will surely fail.

Why oh why is it perfectly acceptable and expected to spend all this time on the above mentioned things (amongst others) and that is never questioned?

Why then is it questioned when time, energy and effort is put forth on keeping one at a healthy weight? I just don't get it. I really don't.

I for one didn't put in the time, energy and effort for over 20 years and that resulted in a very bad situation. I was miserable. MISERABLE. I missed out on a LOT of living. It affected me and everyone around me. Now I put in that time, effort and energy and I really like the results. It is time very well spent as it results in a slender, highly-productive, energetic, healthy and happy ME. Yes, time very well spent. :smug:

From the perspective of a seven-year maintainer (as of May 12) ...

As the years go by, maintenance doesn't take laser-beam concentration and constant thought. We're all creatures of habit and once the habits, skills, and practices of maintenance are locked into place, they tend to recede into the background of your life. They're there, but not constantly on the front burner of your brain.

Maintenance has been ingrained into my brain since Day One of my weight loss (June 1, 2001) because my habits and practices of maintenance are identical to what I did during the year I was losing weight. Honestly, if you looked at a snapshot of a day between June 2001 - May 2002 and today, you'd see just about no differences. These days I don't have to think hard about exercise and diet; it's etched into my brain now. I get up, drink two mugs of coffee, and go to the gym for 90 minutes every morning. No thinking required. The same with food ... I eat the same nutritious foods in the same quantities and refuse to touch 95% of the "food" in the world. Moderation doesn't work for me, never has and I expect it never will. My "yes" list is small and my "no" list is large and it works for me.

However ... and this is a big however ... I slip and fall flat on my face. I'm human and deal with holidays, stress, family crisis and illnesses just like everyone else. And that's where the concepts of mindfulness and constant awareness come in. I weigh myself every morning and am continually reminded of how ridiculously easy it is to regain weight after a weight loss, especially a large one. One off-plan meal can easily take a week to recover from. Consequently I am always aware of my actions and how they impact my maintenance at some level of my brain. It's just that I'm so used to thinking maintenance that it's barely even a blip on my radar. It's like once you're a mom, you're always a mom and you're constantly aware of your children even if you don't realize it. It's just there.

Bill said that maintenance is a trail with slippery slopes on both sides. I've always likened it to a tightrope over a black abyss, so I think we're on the same wavelength. It's just that with practice, you get pretty darn good at keeping your balance on the trail and tightrope. :)

Over the years, I've received some critical and disparaging comments about how I'm doing maintenance "wrong". That there's something wrong with still counting calories, journaling, exercising as much as I do, weighing portions, planning meals in advance ... all the things that I did to lose the weight, still do today and probably will for the rest of my life. The people who make these comments are never at goal themselves and have an idealized vision of what life after goal will be -- some kind of happy weight nirvana where we naturally keep the weight off without thought and effort. They seem to think that those of us who were hardwired for morbid obesity have brain transplants once the weight comes off and that somehow, chocolate chips cookies no longer sing their siren song. :lol:

I don't feel the need to defend myself because I think my results speak for themselves. I've lost ALL of my excess weight and have kept it off for almost seven years. I went from morbid obesity to a normal, healthy weight. I went from being a totally sedentary couch potato to a 54-year old woman who can do unassisted pullups. I went from size 22 pants to size 4 (and I had to put two pairs away this week because they were too baggy to wear to work). Suzanne 3FC tells me that the average woman here at 3FC is looking to lose 100+ pounds (and keep it off) and somehow I've managed to do it. So maybe, just maybe, what I'm doing isn't the wrong way to do maintenance. Maybe it's the right way?

Regardless of how any one of us plans to approach maintenance or is actually doing it, it is highly inappropriate to criticize another's choices. We all need to find our own ways to lose the weight and we all need to find the ways to keep it off that fit in with our lives, families, and how our brains work. We all know the abysmal statistics for weight loss (only 25% of people who set out to lose weight will manage to do it) and maintenance (of those 25% who lose weight, 95% will gain it all back). Consequently, I truly belive that anyone who is successfully maintaining a weight loss of any size is to be applauded. :cp:

Hey Meg! :wave: As you know, you are one of my heroes. :hug: I've learned so much from you!

That said, I am hoping my maintenance looks a little different from yours. But that's OK! As has been said many times, each of us has to find their own way to make this work. No one can say that your way isn't working for you!

rockinrobin, to my mind there is a difference between "constant vigilance" and "paying attention." The first sounds fear-based to me, like a sentry on duty in a war--whereas the second is more like simply being interested in what's happening. Staying in awareness.

To use the finances analogy, I know where our household accounts are at, at all times. I'm in charge of them. But, I don't pore over them constantly.

One can envision the path as having drop-offs on each side, or as a tightrope over a black abyss--or, as being a lovely path through a pleasant valley. I'm looking for "the path free from extremes" for my maintenance.

For many, moderation doesn't seem to work--but I want to find a way to get there.

As many of you have already read, I'm currently experimenting with increasing my calories to lose more weight, and by golly, it is working. I didn't think that it would--I've been one of those saying, "Oh, every time I increase my calories, I gain." But this experience of losing while eating more has changed my view about what I need to do with food and exercise.

Jay

To use the finances analogy, I know where our household accounts are at, at all times. I'm in charge of them. But, I don't pore over them constantly.

Well, we are all in different stages dear Jay. I have 2 kids in college, 1 whom is headed to grad school and one junior in High School, heading to college. I will G-d willing be making 2 weddings in the not so far off future. My husbands job is very dependent on good economic times and well, there's a not so tiny crisis going on in our country at the moment. I myself are in the beginning stages of a new career. So for me, right now money is a BIG GIGANTIC issue. BIG!!!. And I wouldn't say I pore over them constantly, just as I don't think about my weight constantly. But they're both very much on my mind. In fact, now that I typed all those financial woes down, I think the money stuff is definitely heavier on my brain these days. :?: :dizzy: :?:

Just like our money situations are different so are our weight situations. I'm coming off of a 165 lb loss. Which means I NEEDED TO LOSE 165 lbs. Which means *I* ate my way up to 287 lbs. So, yes my needs and ways of dealing with them are different then yours and the next one and the next one and the next one. And you know what, they may even be different then someone who needed to lose those very same 165 lbs. ;)

to my mind there is a difference between "constant vigilance" and "paying attention." The first sounds fear-based to me, like a sentry on duty in a war--whereas the second is more like simply being interested in what's happening. Staying in awareness.

Whatever wording works best for YOU, is definitely what words YOU should use. I mean hellooo, they're YOUR words.

For many, moderation doesn't seem to work--but I want to find a way to get there.

Moderation isn't exactly what I was looking for. Although again, it's one of those words that have different meanings to different people. What I was looking for exactly is to get to a healthy weight and then to stay there - and I have(!) and I've been staying there for 3 days shy of 20 months.

I think you know I wish you all the best as you forge on towards your goal and when that time does come, that you indeed find your happy and successful maintenance place. :cheer2: :hug: :cheer2:

Over the years, I've received some critical and disparaging comments about how I'm doing maintenance "wrong". That there's something wrong with still counting calories, journaling, exercising as much as I do, weighing portions, planning meals in advance. I don't feel the need to defend myself because I think my results speak for themselves.

The people who make these comments are never at goal themselves and have an idealized vision of what life after goal will be -- some kind of happy weight nirvana where we naturally keep the weight off without thought and effort

Meg, you always know how to perfectly put things in perspective. I'm going to remember these words. I hope when I'm maintaining for 7 years that I can have half as much wisdom as you do. Oh, and you do know I plan to be maintaining for 7 years. In advance, of course. ;) :hug:

Money is a big, gigantic issue for everyone right now, rockinrobin.

Moderation isn't exactly what I was looking for. Although again, it's one of those words that have different meanings to different people. What I was looking for exactly is to get to a healthy weight and then to stay there - and I have(!) and I've been staying there for 3 days shy of 20 months.

Well, for goodness sake, that's where I wanted to be as well. ;) I'm hoping that I can do so by practicing "moderation," which may mean something different to me than it does to most. I don't know.


to my mind there is a difference between "constant vigilance" and "paying attention." The first sounds fear-based to me, like a sentry on duty in a war--whereas the second is more like simply being interested in what's happening. Staying in awareness.

Whatever wording works best for YOU, is definitely what words YOU should use. I mean hellooo, they're YOUR words.

I only mentioned this because you said in your earlier post that I was contradicting myself. To me it's not a contradiction. And what's that "hellooo" about, anyway? ;)

And I just want to point out that I reached goal in July of 2007. What I'm doing now is dealing with some post-autumn weight gain--and I was trying to lose by restricting myself too much. It didn't work.

I do think that there may be significant differences between people who were very heavy, say, needing to lose 165 pounds or more, and those who weren't so heavy, say, needing to lose "only" 60 pounds. These two groups may have to approach things differently. Also, people who were always overweight/obese may be different from those who were normal sized and then became obese in later life. I don't know--I'm not a weight loss professional. Just speculating.

But even though it's often mentioned here that everyone is different, I have found that for myself, it has been easy to get the impression from posts in this forum and elsewhere on 3FC that maintenance has to be some sort of bleak place stretching into the future... This is not the only possible view.

Jay

You know, I've been here at the Maintainers forum since its inception and have never, ever, even once gotten the impression that maintenance is some sort of bleak place stretching into the future. The posts I read are ones filled with the joy and wonder and gratitude of finally, finally attaining what many of us have sought our whole lives -- and many of us thought we'd never achieve. I read posts about how fun exercise is and what a blast clothes shopping is and how much we love the food we're eating now. I've never read one filled with doubts, sadness, or regret.

It certainly would be sad if that's how anyone would view maintenance but honestly, I'd be baffled if someone picked up such a depressing vision from the Maintainers forum. In fact, I'll go out on a limb and say this is the happiest forum at 3FC. :)

When I was nearing goal and wondering how to keep it off. I came to this forum, Meg, you were the first person I ever heard say you kept it off by doing the same thing you did to lose it. This was revolutionary to me! Guess what, folks ? It works. I now do that and am still maintaining. I still plan my meals ahead of time, still count calories, still exercise. I am not rigid about it, but find I MUST plan ahead and MUST keep in mind what will happen if I forget to plan. Planning my meals and counting calories is much preferable to having to wear extra size clothing and the health consequences of obesity.

Bargoo, you're such a shining example of how keeping the weight off is impacting your health. I know that for you weight is much more than a vanity issue and probably is a matter of life and death. :hug: Hopefully when you came to the Maintainers forum back then and read what I wrote, it didn't strike you as a bleak view of the future. :)

What do you make of this, Meg?

Bill said that maintenance is a trail with slippery slopes on both sides. I've always likened it to a tightrope over a black abyss, so I think we're on the same wavelength.

Do you call that not a depressing view? I think it's a doggone depressing vision!

Jay

You know, I've been here at the Maintainers forum since its inception and have never, ever, even once gotten the impression that maintenance is some sort of bleak place stretching into the future. The posts I read are ones filled with the joy and wonder and gratitude of finally, finally attaining what many of us have sought our whole lives -- and many of us thought we'd never achieve.

After 4 years, I would say my weight maintenance emotional break down looks like this:

60% - eh, this is just the way life is, no big deal
30% - Wonder, joy "squee, look at these tiny shirts I'm folding, are they mine?"
10% - UGH WHY CAN'T I JUST EAT SCONES LIKE EVERY NORMAL PERSON IN THE WORLD

I have to say, JayEll, your comment about "unresolved food issues" struck a huge chord with me, it sent a zap of pain through my heart and I have been thinking about it off and on all night.

Don't you think I long to be one of those awesome intuitive eaters who can eat in moderation, who can stop eating when I'm full, who prefers oatmeal to scones, can easily turn down cookies at work (or eat a single cookie if I feel like it!). I don't want to plan, I don't want to think about food, I don't want to worry about what's going to be on the buffet every meal at this 7 day work conference.

I've pretty much narrowed down the "why I was fat" to 3 reasons:

1. I eat when I'm bored (I can easily trace this back to being a latchkey kid, nothing to do every day but eat and watch TV, I associate afternoons with boredom and eating with pleasure)

2. I can eat when I'm not hungry.

3. Some foods (particularly empty carby food like crackers and cookies) trigger a very odd reaction where I want to stuff more and more food in my mouth.

Sure, I have identified my issues, but they aren't resolved. I have tactics and techniques for dealing with them, but they are STILL THERE. Particularly, the weird carby, binging feeling I get - thats' hard wired biologically, how I am supposed to resolve it? I use constant vigilance - am I wrong, a failure, am I living a life of fear? That's what hurts - unless someone is trying to lose weight eating 500 calories per day, I rarely comment on someone else's methods, because I truly believe we each must find our own, unique path to success.

I had to face the fact that I will never be a normal person. I really am not ashamed to have unresolved food issues (although it can be embarassing in social situations when I have to order dressing on the side, ask for no cheese, duck and hide to avoid the girl scouts laying in wait outside the grocery store). I always thought after I lost weight, I would be normal. I don't know how to be normal, how not to think of food all the time. Even the slim, idealized intuitive-eating woman. This woman might prefer steel cut oats to a scone, but how does the steel cut oats get in her home, in her bowl (in a perfectly sized portion)? For me, I don't think it's possible to eat well by accident. If I get hungry at work in the afternoon, if I haven't planned, shopped, packed a nice crunchy apple - what would I eat? There aren't any healthy snacks lying around - the choices would be: junk out of the snack machine, cookies from a coworker's desk.

Losing weight did not change me, I am exactly the same (as my few trips off plan have aptly demonstrated to me). It requires constant vigilance for ME to fight my old self. Sure, I have so many healthy habits that at times it doesn't feel like vigilance, it just feels normal. But deep down, I know I am one dark chocolate covered graham cracker away from the old me. With my whole heart, I want to be the person who can eat one Thin Mint and stop, naturally without longing for another one, but I know that it won't happen for me. It feels worse to want the second Thin Mint than to not eat the first Thin Mint. Eating the first Thin Mint makes me feel slightly crazy, not eating a Thin Mint sometimes makes me feel sad/bad, but usually just feels like nothing (the siren call of a cookie usually doesn't happen until I put it in my mouth, when the siren call turns into a siren call for 20 cookies).

Usually, I can say I am not normal and I'm okay with it. Or I say something like this is what normal is now and I'm okay with it. It's the other 10% of the time that I struggle and feel bad, feel wrong, feel obsessed.

After all that writing, I have to remember I am a 4 year maintainer. I am currently only 2 lbs over goal, I have maintained my weight loss fairly easily. My methods work for me, and I am the only one I have to please. I will plan. I will shop. I will pack lunches. I will look up restaurant menus online before I go and make my choice. I will look up calories. I will continue to weigh my pasta, measure my salad dressing, portion my nuts. I will be constantly vigilant. I don't feel like my life is filled with fear.

Sorry for all the rambling :);)

Jay, to me -- and possibly others -- morbid obesity is a black abyss of sadness and despair. When I think back on my years at 250+ pounds, that's exactly the image that comes to my mind. I know how easily I could slip back into the pit and that's why I liken my life today as walking on a tightrope over the abyss. I'm on the tightrope, I know how to balance, and I know the consequences if I fall.

Perhaps I'm too honest in sharing my thoughts and feelings, but that's a genuine image that drives me. I truly apologize if anyone finds what I say or write to be depressing. If you knew me in real life, you'd realize that I'm probably one of the happiest people you'll ever meet. I live every day with joy and gratitude. Every morning is Christmas morning and every day is the best day of my life since I lost the weight.

But I'm always conscious of the consequences of my actions and acutely aware of how easily my weight loss success could slip away.

it has been easy to get the impression from posts in this forum and elsewhere on 3FC that maintenance has to be some sort of bleak place stretching into the future

I am literally shaking right now, that's how disturbed I am. I can't come up with words right now to respond, but I did scrounge up and then copied and pasted some posts from various maintainers from this recent thread, it was titled

Maintenance is:

Maintenance is being able to throw on last summer's bikini this spring break.

I will also say that I am just so thrilled beyond belief that I'm in maintenance. 19 months later and sometimes I still have to pinch myself. Did *I* just run up those stairs without getting winded? Can that possibly be *my* closet full of awesomely, incredible, fabulous, clothing????? Can that be *my* husband who has lovingly nicknamed *me*,yes *ME, "slim"? I'm digressing, I'm digressing

Maintenance is putting on the size 6 jeans you find in the back of the closet and knowing they'll zip no problem.

Maintenance is actually looking forward to doctors visits.

Maintenance is never fearing those cream colored envelopes (invitations) that come in the mail.
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Maintenance is ... having a closet full of beautiful, stylish clothes that fit me season after season.

Maintenance is pulling on your jeans straight out of the dryer and having them fit!

Maintenance is nowhere near the terrifying experience I thought it would be. It feels natural to me.
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And that doesn't even skim the surface of the joy I have heard here at the Maintainer's Forum. Not by a long shot.

Gotta think about this some more, before I respond further. Thank goodness we've got Glory and Meg who are so level headed and articulate. :hug:

I guess I write so much, because it is a struggle inside me. I know deep down I am the same person I always was, scratch the surface of all my healthy eating habits (send me on vacation, have a family member die) and boom - the old me is RIGHT THERE WAITING. So, that is why I do agree about the tightrope analogy. The only thing keeping the old me from being me, is me. Most of the time, I feel completely on top of it, my vigilance feels like normal, healthy habits. It doesn't feel intrusive or punitive. I feel happy and slender and okay with my life. Other times, I feel the yawning abyss below me, the old me has lots of justifications for eating things I know aren't good for me/my goals. I do long to be "normal" (no planning required, just eating the perfect healthy foods, treats in moderation, without thinking about any of it!) but most of the time, I am okay with the tactics/techniques which allow me to live as a slim person. It IS work. It will be work for the rest of my life. That doesn't mean it has to be scary (although it can be). It doesn't mean it's going to be all joy and rainbows (although it can be).

For now I want to touch upon the "unresolved issues". I know EXACTLY where my overeating came from. I'll never forget looking at my class pictures one day, some 15 or so years ago. There I was - 1st grade - skinny, 2nd grade - skinny, 3rd grade almost SCARY skinny, 4th grade the same and then - chubby. It was my 5th grade picture and all of a sudden I went from this skinny kid to this,chubby kid. And it hit me - that's the year when the beginnings of my "traumatic experience" occured. Molestation. THAT'S when I turned to - food.

I used food to keep men away from me and to comfort myself. I know if for SURE. Man, this is painful. Okay, I'd always heard that you can't lose the weight and keep it off until you RESOLVE those issues. But darn, I KNEW them. I knew them. I knew where they stemmed from, but I couldn't resolve them. There would be no forgiving my molester and absolutely no forgetting. Okay. So after hearing time and time and time again, how there was no way I could ever be a weight loss success until I did, I kinda gave up. Figured, what's the point, why bother?

And then one day, I said - "screw it". The heck with what "they" say. And the rest so they say is history, one that you all pretty much know. Made the change, revamped my lifestyle, gave myself some pretty strict rules and STUCK to them. Shed the pounds in a fairly timely fashion, if I do say so myself. And have kept it off for almost 20 months. And I can honestly say that I have never, ever been happier. What used to be a pure **** for me - LIFE - is now an incredible, incredible JOY. I know EXACTLY what Meg means when she says every day is Christmas. I can't wait to face each and every day - money woes. Family stuff. Big stuff. Little annoying every day stuff and all. Joy. Joy. Joy. Every day is like a HUGE gift, with so much HAPPINESS in it. Just from the every day little stuff. I get to play dress up every single day. Like a princess. Yup, I feel like this glamourous princess - every day. Can you imagine?

Moderation? You can keep it. Relying on intuition? You can keep that too.
DOESN'T work for me. Listening to what "they" say. No thank you. Being "normal"? I'm done trying to find that. What the heck does that mean anyway? Because you see, I certainly don't DO "normal". Didn't when I was 287 lbs, don't do it now. I've accepted the fact that I will never ever be able to DO "normal". I'm perfectly okay with that. Because I'm at a healthy weight. Yup, ME, *I* am at a healthy weight. And I'm staying here. UNresolved issues and all. Woohoo!!

Okay, that's enough - for now. :)

As an aside, I've never understood the virtues of eating moderate amounts of unhealthy foods. Healthy foods, sure, but cookies? Candy? Soda? Chips? Fast food? No one should be eating that stuff anyway. So why should someone feel bad for not being able to moderately eat non-nutritious foods? :?:

I expect that my maintenance is going to be almost exactly like my weight loss and I don't find anything bleak about it. My husband and I are on disability and have to be crazy careful with our money - but that isn't bleak either. When I tell people about some of our money saving tips (that I actually have fun doing), some people tell me that it's "crazy to worry about money so much." Firstly, I never once said that I worry about money. In fact, I worry about money less now that I have less money to worry about. Finding ways for our money to go further, is a fun challenge to me. I understand why some find it bleak, but they're wrong in assuming that I find it so.

Weight and finances (and parenting, hobbies and bunches of other things a person might devote time and effort into to) take as much time and effort as the person chooses to put into them, and how much time any person dedicates to any or all, really isn't something anyone else has to be concerned about. There will always be people telling you that you're beeing too careful, or not careful enough, spending too much time and effort, or not enough. If it's working for you and your family and your happy with it, it's ridiculous for others to say you're doing any of it "wrong."

I decided "this time," that I wasn't going to do anything that I couldn't imagine doing for a lifetime. I call it my super low-stress way to weight loss, and it's working for me. I've gotten a lot of criticism (almost none of it here, and most of it coming from family) for not losing faster, and well, frankly they can go jump. I'm learning that the more I do, the more I'm willing to do, but I still refuse to take on anything that I can't see myself doing forever. That doesn't mean that I don't change my mind sometimes, and have to change my plans, but I don't make plans that I know won't work in the long term. Crash diets and goal by dates only work in the short term for me, and I know that weight that I get off quickly, comes back quickly.

Moderation the way I intend it does not include eating junk food. That's not what I mean at all.

I suppose I should say "healthy" instead of "moderately"?

I gave up drinking alcohol 22 years ago. I sure did love to drink, though! But you know what, I have no idea what "moderately" means when it comes to alcohol. Why would anyone want to drink moderately? Nope. With me it's an all or nothing situation. That's why I stopped and why I'm not going back. Do I occasionally wish I could have a drink like "normal" people? Oh yeah! But I never drank that way and there's no reason to think I ever would. So, it's just not an option. I don't "try" to have "just a little" alcohol.

However, I do not have to white-knuckle my way through being sober. Not after all these years. If I did, then I'd say I had been doing pretty lousy at my recovery!

So, yes, I understand some of these issues. Resolving my issues with alcohol doesn't mean I'll ever be able to drink again. And it could be that if someone resolved their issues with food, they would still never be able to eat certain foods again. The difference has to do with attitude.

For the first several years of not drinking, I was scared all the time. I expected to be "struck drunk" at any minute if I let down my guard. And who knows? I might have been. It was like the tightrope over the abyss. But at some point that changed. I am no longer scared all the time, even though of course I still can't drink.

I am not suggesting that anyone is doing maintenance wrong. For many folks, fear is what's keeping you from going down that slippery slope of regaining. It's a good thing if it works. Keep doing it.

And yes, my maintenance plan IS just like my weight loss plan, but with a bit more here and a bit less there. I'm not suggesting I can ever go back to the old ways because my old ways got me up to my high weight. As I think I said in some other post a long time ago, what we're trying to do is redefine "normal." At least, that's what I'm trying to do.

Jay

Over the years, I've received some critical and disparaging comments about how I'm doing maintenance "wrong". That there's something wrong with still counting calories, journaling, exercising as much as I do, weighing portions, planning meals in advance ... all the things that I did to lose the weight, still do today and probably will for the rest of my life. The people who make these comments are never at goal themselves and have an idealized vision of what life after goal will be -- some kind of happy weight nirvana where we naturally keep the weight off without thought and effort.

I think this comes from the wish, hope, and dream that once you lose the weight, everything will be okay and you can go back to your old way of eating and maintain.
Most people who diet want to diet and then be done with it. Isn't that why most diets fail? Not the diet itself per se, but the fact that people stop doing the diet and then blame the diet.
There is a whole different physical/biological component to weight loss for many people. Just because you become thin, that doesn't mean those underlying issues are gone. I guess that can also go for emotional issues.

I'm still trying to figure out the moderation thing. There are some foods/situations where I just seem out of control, and I cannot figure out why. My current solution to that is to enjoy those situations, and really work hard before and after. It's not ideal, but it works for me at the moment until I can figure out that Superbowl parties don't mean that I have to stuff my face. LOL. I've have learned enough to be able to recover from days like that - they don't send me spinning out of control for weeks like in years past.

There are certain foods that can't come into the house (peanut butter cups come to mind). I just can't have them around. But you know, I don't crave them until they actually appear in front of me. I certainly hardly ever feel deprived, as I love the food I *do* eat. I am going to have to count calories and weigh and measure for quite a while into the future yet. I am not a very good intuitive eater, and you know - I don't mind the weighing and measuring or the counting. It's just such part of my day like which foot goes in the pant leg first, or what order I tend to do my day in. Stuff you don't think about so much.

Jay, I wasn't targeting your post, more generically stating that sometimes people see fear, or suffering, or deprivation where there is none. Mostly a few posts reminded me of my mother's voice in my head. She's very conflicted when it comes to weight loss. She's lost 60 lbs, and has regained about 15 of it, and is having trouble getting those 15 back off, andthe 20 more she wants to. She has a lot of trouble seeing weight loss efforts as anything but deprivation (she's a rather pessimistic person though, so she's likely to interpret most situations negatively). She was even lamenting, at Christmas that she "can't eat like she used to," as if that were a bad thing.
Yet, she's always telling me what I'm doing wrong, how I need to do it, instead and doesn't acknowledge even the possibility that I might have it under control.

She views my food journal as a terrible chore, that I couldn't possibly enjoy using, especially forever - and yet both she and my father have done at least one word or computer puzzle every day of the last decade. I really don't see much of a difference

My youngest sister is thin and very toned because she works hard at it, and my mother is always telling her that she's spending too much time on her workouts and is too picky about food - she also tells my other sister that she spends too much time at church (and when I was single told me I needed to go to church and should join "any" church if I didn't want to be Catholic anymore - and then after I married my husband and joined the Lutheran Church, she wasn't happy either).

There are just so many ways in which people (especially those that care about us) become annoying in trying to help us find "balance" in our lives - unfortunately their idea of balance is often very different than our own. And while we may be confident that we have the mix right, there are always well--meaning folks telling us that we don't.

Oh my goodness, I just have so many thoughts jumping around my head and I'm not certain I can be coherent.

First off, I just respect so much how each of us have found our own ways to maintain health. I think health is more than just phyisical health, it's also emotional, mental, relationship, family, community, etc.

Which brings me to another thought. Here on 3FC the focus is so much weight loss and that is mostly what we share. If someone bothered to read through my 3000+ posts he or she might think, "Wow, that midwife sure obsesses. All she writes about is planned food, exercise, maintenance theory, etc." Of course I am so much more than the pieces I share here on 3FC. Weight loss and maintenance seems to be mostly what I talk about here....but how much of my life is that really?

I shop an hour or two for food (I'd have to anyway).

I exercise 6-8 hrs a week.

I spend about 15 minutes a day planning and journaling my food and exercise. So, say that's about 12 hrs a week focusing on health, nutrition, exercise.....and my exercise is good for my mental health too.

I spend about 50-60 hrs a week taking care of women, babies, and families.
I clean my house about 7 hrs a week.
Sleep varies, but I know I sleep about 48-56 hrs a week.
I write books sometimes, read (not often enough), help with homework, fold clothes, watch movies, chauffeur to soccer games, track meets, Girl Scouts, etc. Then there's time with DH, which varies. Oh, and meetings for this and that---likely another 4 hrs or so.

So even if my posts on 3FC make it seem like all I ever do is ponder and plan and exercise for weight maintenance, it's not true. It's a sliver of my life.....but the rewards are bountiful. 15 minutes of planning and packing in the morning ensures I get my protein and veggies in, I have everything I need for my day, and it removes the choice/temptation of hmmm, what did the drug rep bring for lunch, hmmm, they're going out, should I go? Should I run to the gift shop for a snack? All of that time and consideration is eliminated. So I actually save time in my day by planning before.

Exercise is much more for me than weight maintenance. I run with my good friend and we talk about....everything. I get to lift weights with my daughter and that has been so rewarding. She's a junior and won't be here forever and we are able to spend that time together. I taught my 13 yo son and his friend how to do deadlifts yesterday (don't worry, Ilene, it was safe and with no weight on the bar). Now that I can run 3+ miles at a decent pace, DH and I run together and we have uninterrupted time to talk. So exercise has transcended weight maintenance and is a fulfilling part of my life far beyond what the scale says.

I think another thing to touch on is that redefinition of "normal".

On the one hand, I see society's "normal" and that is that most adults in our country are at least overweight if not obese. I don't want to be "normal" if "normal" is typical.

So I think I am looking for a new "normal", which for me is eating really healthy most of the time and exercising in a way that I enjoy and can continue for the long term.

But then we have our environments---and mine is highly obesegenic (I love that word!). The food choices.....EVERYWHERE! Donuts on the unit, cookies from drug reps, cookies from Girl Scouts, potlucks, meetings, birthday dinners....etc. Food is closely integrated to socialization for my life and I can plan (and thus ignore!) for it most of the time, but sometimes I do eat pizza or Chinese or Girl Scout cookies and I then get right back on plan. The scale bops up and the scale bops down.....and that is my reality of this lifestyle called maintenance. At least for now. But it's working for me. I do eat junk sometimes, but I have found that the danger is when I beat myself up, feel that I am a moral failure, etc., that is the danger.....not the temporary increase in calories.

So my new "normal" is 90% healthy stuff, exercise 5-6 days a week (not 7, I do have a rest day), and the 10% that is not healthy....well, oh well. That's part of my life.

Is it constant sunshine and rainbows? Well.....there are days getting up at 4:45 to run totally blows, but then I'm always so glad I did. And there are days I wish I could shove junk food in my mouth with no regards to the consequences. But even with those brief moments, I do not regret losing the weight. I would rather make the choices I need to (even though sometimes those choices are hard, sometimes easy!), than ever go back to being obese. Not even a close decision. I would much rather live the lifestyle I have now than the one I used to have.

I hope this makes sense....

Call it a guy thing.....but....


:nono: I am not touching this thread with a 10 foot pole :no:

BILL ~ You ventured down a slippery slope jumping into this one...brave man...brave...;)

I too was influenced by what Meg has shared about maintaining. Your postings have been invaluable to me. I know now that I am not going to regain thirty pounds like I did in '04 after losing 85 in '03!

I do not ever want to go back to sleep apnea, heart palpitations, and pre-diabetes. If that is being fearful maybe I needed to have a wake up call.

I loved what you said about mindfulness. I practice mindfulness meditation now as part of my healing journey. Being human I don't always do it perfectly but I still feel grateful for my healthy living and thinner self now. I have learned that I used to white knuckle life too.

Knowing I have achieved something and realizing I will have to continue to work to keep it is not depressing to me. My mother never lost the weight that dogged her until the end of her life. My father was never supportive of her and she had no resources like 3FC to help her. I feel grateful to the successful people who continue to post and provide invaluable help to the newbie maintainers like me. :cool:

Midwife makes a great point, which was actually on my mind while I was out and about these last few hours -

Here on 3FC the focus is so much weight loss and that is mostly what we share. If someone bothered to read through my 3000+ posts he or she might think, "Wow, that midwife sure obsesses. All she writes about is planned food, exercise, maintenance theory, etc." Of course I am so much more than the pieces I share here on 3FC. Weight loss and maintenance seems to be mostly what I talk about here....but how much of my life is that really?

Yes, that's what we talk about here - weight - loss/gain/maintenance/loss/gain/maintenance. Weight. Weight. Weight.
The ins and the outs the ups and yes the downs. And everything that pertains to it. You don't hear me talking about my 30 other different things that I have going on any given day. As is the case with all of us here.

Since I don't want to speak about my weight constantly within my home life, I did seek out a place for support for this very reason and 3FC is where I landed.

This is a really stimulating thread to read. I hope it's not annoying that I'm hanging round here - but I so want to play in your gang!

I was interested in the analogy of weight and money. Back in January 2006 I had a serious financial melt-down, the worst. So for 3 years now I have logged every income and expenditure. Not down to every item in the shopping basket but I give myself a housekeeping budget and never draw more, have 'pots' for utilties, dogs, health, holidays etc. I am in permanent financial 'maintenance' - and I understand that joy! Constant vigilance means I always have enough for my needs, do not owe a penny.

So if I can do that with money, and it is now absolutely second nature, my aim this time is to do the same with weight maintenance.

Jay, I wasn't targeting your post, more generically stating that sometimes people see fear, or suffering, or deprivation where there is none.

Exactly. Also, the weighing and journaling and exercising that Meg was referring to I think comes from the fact that that reality is so different than the one that is lived by people who are struggling to lose.

Yes, when I was well over 200 pounds, I probably would've looked at the person I've been for the past 5 years (as of March 10th) and thought she was nuts. How could ANYONE be happy doing what I do to keep the weight off? I go to the gym several days a week or I'm our running. I abstain from certain foods I used to eat everyday. I (gasp!) read labels and COUNT things and apply effort to these areas. In those behaviors I too saw deprivations and suffering.

When I finally realized that I wasn't a miserable person by being this way, that a weight had been lifted and I was happy and HEALTHY, I no longer saw it as suffering and deprivation. Others still view my life as one of suffering and deprivation, but that's their problem, not mine ;)

I have made this my habit, my everyday and have found happiness and pride in being someone who takes the time to take care of herself.

5 years later, I still get comments. I was telling my best friend about the Daily Plate and the interval training I was doing and she threw out words like "obsessive" and "I'm concerned".

Well, she is more content drinking a bottle of wine every night, smoking a pack a day and eating fast food everyday (yet she's concerned about me). Her efforts are put elsewhere. Mine are placed on my health and well being.

I really think it's a lack of perspective and understanding for another's point of view. And I think sometimes this thing I've been able to do- lose weight and keep (most of) it off- has brought out some fierce insecurity in others. I would never presume to judge someone else's happiness for the decisions they make that affect their bodies. I've been there. I could never see the point from the other side. Now, I just get it.

To steal Midwife's phrase, it's not all sunshine rainbows.. but there are more now that I've taken on this "obsession"
(:lol:) than there was before. My question is why people have a hard time just letting that be?

This is a really stimulating thread to read. I hope it's not annoying that I'm hanging round here - but I so want to play in your gang!


Of course not! Anyone who has lost 1 lb and wants to keep it off is a maintainer, everyone is welcome to post! You had an interesting perspective to share :)

http://www.3fatchicks.net/img/bar08/slider-pig/lb/188/135/174/.png (http://www.3fatchicks.com/)

This is such a great forum. I learn a lot from this. Thanks all for posting your tips and tricks with wt loss and maintenance.

5 years later, I still get comments. I was telling my best friend about the Daily Plate and the interval training I was doing and she threw out words like "obsessive" and "I'm concerned".

I think sometimes this thing I've been able to do- lose weight and keep (most of) it off- has brought out some fierce insecurity in others.


Oh yes, absolutely.

The people that question what I do, the ones that feel that's it is *obsessive*, *abnormal*, *depressing*, *restrictive*, *difficult*, *impossible*, *unenjoyable* or whatever you want to call it - thing is, it makes them wonder and question what they're doing . It makes them uncomfortable with how they're living their lives. It makes them doubt what they're doing.

And sure enough, they're always the ones who are either overweight, or like Junebug's friend - smoke, drink, are in debt - living in upheaval of some sort.

How dare they. How dare they.

Ok, for me I was never obese, so I think it is FAR easier for ME to maintain my weight than others and for that I apologize. I wish it was a lot easier for everyone, truly I do. For me, I've been maintaining a 25-27 pound loss for going on 2 years now! I eat healthy foods 80% of the time and 20% of the time I still eat sweets, but it's in smaller quantities of course.

I LOVE healthy wholesome foods like fruits, veggies, grains, oatmeal, yogurt, chicken, salmon etc., they are my staples daily. But I also LOVE the forbidden foods too and I incorporate them into each week as well. Stop cringe-ing peeps, but yes truth be told, I'm having my cake and eating it too even in maintenance! HOWEVER, I workout daily for 1 - 1.5 hrs of cardio & weightlifting to maintain my loss. Exercise is the KEY that keeps my pounds at bay. I don't obsess over eating foods or the scale either, I weigh in once a month. I prefer my jeans-o-meter instead, incase your wondering YES my skinny jeans still fit me great so OBVIOUSLY I AM doing SOMETHING right! Some may think oh 2 years ain't diddly squat, but so be it, its my 2 years maintenance and yanno I am DOING IT MY WAY, and low and behold MY WAY WORKS TOO!

I have plenty of so called tools in my toolbox, I guess you can say I use 80% of the tools I have learned in my lifetime, and the other 20% of tools are all shiny and untouched, I CHOOSE not to use every tool in my box. I enjoy eating them both, healthy foods and sweets. Moderation DOES work for ME, sorry it does not work for everybody. I wish it would truly I do.

As you have just read 100% perfectionism isn't happening here in my maintenance and I can still maintain and I AM maintaining on my 80/20 plan. What a coincidence my medical plan is also an 80/20 plan.

The funny thing is, I'm a true perfectionist in almost every aspect of my life, including being a successful businesswoman. However, when it came time for weightloss and maintenance, I knew I wouldn't be a perfectionist in eating day in and day out for the rest of my life, nor did I want to be, so I decided 80% is damn do-able and I rolled with that idea! And it truly works for ME! I do not like to deprive myself of anything that is why I refuse to not eat foods that I enjoy eating, like sweets- dark chocolate, wine, cookies, icecream, peanut m & m's etc. Forbidden forever? Um, I DON'T THINK SO! Its all about moderation though, depriving myself would set me off in a BINGE, but allowing myself ( some) 20% of the time, works great, I'm happier and satisfied and that makes my maintenance a heckuva lot easier! I CAN do moderation WELL, others can not, yes I do realize my maintenance is not a once size fits all plan, but I just wanted to let others know what works for me.

I love the taste of sweets, LOVE them I won't BS you guys! Does that mean my title of maintainer gets taken away, because I go this route? Am I viewed now as a bad example of a maintainer? One that doesn't take maintenance seriously?
Does eating the 20% of sweets make me unhealthier? ...Well maybe somewhat, but I seriously doubt it, perhaps if I ate sweets 80% of the time and healthy food only 20% of the time, then that would probably be a PROBLEM!!!! So I shall continue to do it my way.

By looking at me I am fit as a fiddle, according to my doctors I am in amazing shape for someone my age (pushing 42) & the only pills I take are vitamins. By the way, I have relatives that lived well into their 100's aunts, uncles, grandparents etc. They ate icecream daily, cooked in lard daily, baked sweets weekly and ate them, their activity was playing cards and none of them were overweight! Just goes to show that people who eat JUNK food actually did have longevity!!!!!! Yes my relies truly liked their sweets , so I obviously inhererited this from them and my Dad also. Instead of a sweet tooth, I have 32 sweet tooths in my mouth I am certain! For me, its all about balancing the good with the bad, it's not like I eat 4 crispy creme donuts for breakfast! Heck no I eat extremely healthy everyday, with some days my sweet treats thrown into the mix, this is the lifestyle I am living and I couldn't be happier!


We are all unique individuals, we know what works for us, and this my friends truly works for me. I guess I am considered one of the lucky ones, but I do work at staying fit, I love to workout, I look forward to it, I have been exercising for over 25 years, weightlifting is my new hobby and I LOVE IT!

I am happy to be a member of the few, the proud, the slender club! I shall continue to stick with this lifestyle for the long haul, being it works for me! Well that's my story and I'm sticking to it...... my SWEET SUCCESS, how SWEET it is, LITERALLY!

The people that question what I do, the ones that feel that's it is *obsessive*, *abnormal*, *depressing*, *restrictive*, *difficult*, *impossible*, *unenjoyable* or whatever you want to call it - thing is, it makes them wonder and question what they're doing . It makes them uncomfortable with how they're living their lives. It makes them doubt what they're doing.



That could certainly be true in some cases, but I think that much of the time, they're just confused at the discipline that a maintainer has. I am guessing that they see the lifestyle of losing/maintaining as too much work, and are perplexed as to how someone could enjoy their life if they were constantly "obsessed" or being so "restrictive". I'm guessing that, many times, they're thinking, "I sure wouldn't want to live that way--it's not worth it!".

I'm not a maintainer yet, but i like reading here because you all give me such good insight. Like others, I've lost a little weight before but once I got to a point where I was feeling and looking better, I laxed up because I thought I was "done". Now, thanks to people like you all, I know that there is no "done"....it's a new way of eating and of living, and it will always be this way if I'm to become and stay slim. And I'm OK with that because I already feel so much better!

When I first logged in 3FC I started reading this forum. I felt a bit guilty, sure I shouldn't be looking here but I so wanted to be a member. I'd lost and regained several times and knew that I needed to make this time different. Add me to the people with issues about food. Like Robin I started gaining weight young, at 7, to protect myself. Most of the next 39 years I was overweight or obese. I was bulimic in my 20s and struggled with (and sometimes still struggle with) binge eating disorder, so yeah I have issues with food that haven't disappeared.

What I know is that I have maintained a larger loss for 9 months (wow, I haven't been counting!), longer than I ever have. I feel incredibly healthy and fit. I really believe that the things I read in this forum early on prepared me for this phase of the journey. I knew I'd still be vigilant but I'd feel great. The only thing I didn't expect was how excited I am about having actual muscles! I'm not a regular here but I know I can come here when I'm unsure about something, when I hear something obnoxious, or just to get a reality check. I feel hopeful and healthy and really grateful and I heard that all here first. So I log my food, count my calories, plan my exercise every morning before anything else. I feel great. Why wouldn't I want to make the choices that keep me feeling this way?!

I think a lot of times, it really is just a matter of sympathy rather than empathy. When people feel sorrry for us, or criticize, it's often because our choices would make them miserable. True empathy is much, much harder, because in essence, really stepping into another person's shoes is very difficult.

It's like my husband and I with all our health problems. Friends and aquaintences will express their sympathy for us (sometimes bordering on pity, which I find very uncomfortable), and sometimes it seems that they're sadder about our issues than we are. For us, it's just our "normal." Don't get me wrong, I'm not always cavalier about what's going wrong with our bodies, but sometimes I think we're happier now than when we took our health for granted. And having someone feel sad for you, when you're not sad for yourself, I don't know, it's kind of sweet I guess, but it's also kind of creepy.

I do understand that I can be very difficult to understand in many ways. I'm a pretty weird person (and I suspect there's a lot more of us oddballs out there, than "normal" folks, at least I hope so), so my weight struggles are just one more thing about me that stumps some people, but being weird is ok.

I have found that for myself, it has been easy to get the impression from posts in this forum and elsewhere on 3FC that maintenance has to be some sort of bleak place stretching into the future... This is not the only possible view.


I got to thinking about this and am wondering what your thoughts are - nevermind maintenance, but what about losing? I think if you (or anyone) finds the losing process bleak and dismal, then chances are they very well may find maintenance to be the same.

You've mentioned that you had difficulties sticking with your plan. Just guessing here - too restrictive, too boring, not eating great tasting foods (LC's come to mind)? Like you're just waiting to "go off of it". I apologize if I'm totally off base here . But that would seem unpleasant to me and yup, I wouldn't want to be there forever - stretching into the future.

I think it's VITAL therefore to find something enjoyable to you. That's not all that difficult to stick with. That you CAN do forever, without it seeming like a punishment. And I think once you've found that, well then, why in the world would doing it forever - seem bleak? I've said dozens of times - no reason to go off plan, when on plan is so good. And I meant it. And I'm pretty certain many of the maintainers here feel the same way. We actually ENJOY our plan. Certainly the incredible benefits, but ALSO the plan in and of itself.

I for one loved the whole losing process. LOVED that finally after so many years of having no limits, a food free for all so to speak, that I was THRILLED beyond belief to finally have some boundaries and guidelines to abide by. I LOVED the sense of control that I garnered up. That I could be around food and not feel the need to stuff it down my throat. I loved the fact that just because the food was *there*, that I didn't have to eat it. What a concept! And this is a biggie - I LOVED the foods that I was eating. Who knew? I found fantastic new veggies and ways of preparing them. I found and developed dozens of mouth-watering recipes, using chicken breasts, turkey breast, fish and beans. I became even a better cook then I used to be. Just ask my family & friends! I LOVED the physical activity that I was finally doing. Being a couch potato was a huge source of shame for me. I LOVED the order and semblance that my plan brought. I LOVED the sense that it made. Monitoring my calories. Eating the right amount for ME. Eating incredibly (yet totally) delicious foods in healthy portions. I loved, loved, LOVED it.

And I still do.

I no longer wanted to be a person who didn't care about what she was eating. I wanted to actually be a person who cared about what they eat. I was thrilled to finally be a person who didn't WANT to eat everything in sight. Finally, *I* was a health conscious person. One that I always longed to be. Oh yeah!!!

And I still am.

So it was easy and a pleasure to enter into maintenance. I loved what I was doing to lose the weight, I love what I'm doing to maintain the weight. And then of course there's the fact that maintenance means I am slender and healthy and achieved something pretty darn spectacular :D.


This is hard to explain. I'll give it a whirl. I know all too well that eating well and exercising is not a moral issue, because I know for certain it's NOT. But I do feel a certain sense of pride in the way that I eat and exercise. I am proud of what I've achieved and proud of my choices. I'll finish up the day having eaten well and exercising and think, "Wow, that was kind of cool, I did it". I don't know, maybe after being so horrbily out of control and leaving my heatlh up in the air, I get a bigger "kick out of it" then others.

Being on plan gives me peace, enjoyment, comfort, pleasure. But yes there are the days that I'm off plan and on those days I'm all uptight and besides myself. Out of sorts. I don't enjoy those days. The second I'm back on plan, I am relieved and the calm returns.

If anyone is still reading this, any newcomers or non-maintainers - my advice to you would be - find a plan that you love. So that it is no hardship to be on. Whether you're losing or maintaining. Love the idea and the fact of the lifestyle you will be taking on, because, believe me, it is FOREVER. I haven't seen one successful longterm maintainer drastically change one thing that they're doing to maintain, as they did to lose.

You've mentioned that you had difficulties sticking with your plan. Just guessing here - too restrictive, too boring (LC's come to mind)? I apologize if I'm totally off base here . That would seem unpleasant to me and yup, I wouldn't want to be there forever - stretching into the future.

No, actually I am happy with my plan and with the foods I choose. And you are off base when it comes to my mental attitude and process.

I've come to find out recently that I have not been eating enough to continue to lose, and this was a surprise to me. I think this is why I was having so much difficulty staying on program--I was pushing too hard in the wrong direction and I was hungry! It's no wonder I was stalled and bouncing. We're not talking huge numbers--I was trying to stay below 1300 average, when I should have been over 1500 average. To lose.

But my difficulty wasn't because I was eating boring foods that I didn't like. It was just plain not enough. Now I eat pretty much the same foods, but more of them. Last night I had two red potatoes with dinner instead of just one, for example. I eat more for breakfast. My snacks are larger.

evilwomaniamshe, thanks for posting! I think you and I are similar.

kaplods, thanks to you also for your insight. I agree--it's creepy when people feel "sorry" for their friends that way--like you've become their poster child or something.

I'm finding this thread very interesting! Thanks to everyone who is posting. I think a successful maintainer is someone who keeps their weight stable over time. How they do it is their own business, and clearly it's different for everyone.

Jay

And you are off base when it comes to my mental attitude and process.

Jay, I am truly sorry that you felt I was off base. The main reason that I brought it up though, was that I was really trying hard to see your point of view as to why you would think maintainance is such a bleak and dismal place. And that's what came to mind. Clearly, I was wrong and I again apologize. 3FC is a place for support and sometimes in so badly wanting to give that support, help others and just plain old figure things out, we say things that can be taken the wrong way. Just like I'm sure you did not mean to upset anyone when you mentioned that we've still got some unresolved eating issues.

Gosh, this weight loss stuff is wraught with emotion, isn't it?

But the rest of my post stands - I really, really think it's vital to find something that you love to do. I've embraced this healthy lifestlye. I adore being a part of "the club". Me. Who wouldv'e thunk it? :smug:

Wow, I didn't expect this thread would turn into such a in-depth discussion. I've read every single response, and I'm trying to round up the millions of thoughts in my head.

I think I may have arrived at some sort of answer to my question. Look at the depth of internal reflection and struggle so many of us have been through to make it to (and stay at) maintainence. I'm starting to think the "x factor" is an intense mental and emotional self-examination. Losing weight seems so physical sometimes, the calories in, calories out process of food and exercise. But I think a person who loses weight without that solitary mental and emotional shift is doomed to gain it back. And therefore we end up seeing a lot of people who are unable to keep weight off, because they did not address their internal demons. And that's not to say that we maintainers don't have lingering issues -- most of us do, but we have looked them in the eye and recognized what they are.

A comment that was made about making maintainence a priority in one's life... I've heard this before many times, but I'm now just starting to realize the scope of that concept. I moved last year from an apartment to a condo and I had to account for all changes in my routine so that I could continue to live a healthy lifestyle. I had to think about and plan for changes in my commute, changes in the food stores I would now shop at, and figure out a way to exercise without a gym. Now I'm starting to plan for graduate school, and I have to do the same prioritization. I'll have to adjust my meals, and figure out what I can eat at school, and how I'll incorporate exercise into a new routine including going to class and studying. It's almost bizarre, but making maintainence a priority is at the same level as making family a priority. You have to think of all of the ways things in your life will change and you have to plan to adjust with those changes. Because if you don't, you're life will end up running you instread of you running your life.

I think Meg mentioned that she is sometimes criticized for doing the same things in maintainence that she did in weight loss. I recieve the same criticism, even from my doctor!! My doctor said something to the effect of "well, if you're still counting calories and keeping a food journal then you're still dieting." Um, I beg to differ! If I stopped, I'd gradually slip more and more until I was fat again and be just like everybody else who eats "normally."

I don't think maintainence is a bleak place necessarily -- there are obvious benefits to being slim! I look and feel great, and I love clothes shopping! Maintainence is not bleak, but it's also not "normal". But some days it does feel like you're on a hamster wheel you can never get off of. And I do live with fear of regaining. I'm relatively new to maintainance (5 months and counting) so maybe the fear will go away the longer I'm able to stay this weight.

The conclusion I have to draw is -- we're the winners in the weight loss race! We made it through the obstacles and won the grand prize! That's not something to be depressed about. But the great many number of people who have not made it here, or who only stayed here a brief time, is not something we should forget or take lightly.

The more I read about successful weight loss & maintenance, the more I'm convinced that I'm facing a complex web of issues. Some are purely physical, some are psychological, but the one that struck me this morning is the cultural aspect.

Do you realize what a radical act it is, to declare, "I am going to be healthy," and then to institue a plan that is so contrary to the mixed messages in the culture that surrounds us?

Our culture pays lip service to health, to exercise & healthy eating, but for many, that's where it stops. Right at the lips.

Often I think I'd be perfectly okay if only I could live a nearly media-free life, in which I would never be exposed to Red Lobster TV commercials, coupons with lush close-up photographs of glistening, steaming food, grocery aisles full of attractively packaged boxes & containers. Yeah, I'd do better if the whole place were just full of bins & the old 1970s generic packaging with black & white lettering. Or maybe if I could just move back to the 19th century -- but no, I like the 21st century way too much to try to establish a cult/religious sect that rejects all aspects of the modern world.

I feel sometimes that, in trying to live my life in such a way as to remain healthy, I am enaging in the most radical political act imaginable. I mean, I am like the Unabomber of food, because I am way off the mainstream. This, I think, is really why some acquaintances & fellow employees & relatives are so uncomfortable with my behavior. Because it's so clearly a rejection of how most of the people they know live. They want reassurance that they're right & I am indeed way off in a fringe movement.

That may be why sometimes I get a little tired -- because I know I am swimming against the current of the mainstream. I know I've got to protect myself against images & messages that bombard us in daily life.

Granted, eating healthily & relying less on processed foods is a less radical notion than it used to be. During my lifetime, I've seen certain foods become more accessible & questions arise about commonly accepted foods. (I'm in my 40s & remember when only "hippies" ate things like granola & yogurt or patronized vegetarian restaurants.)

If you're going to try to live this way, though, it really helps, to be in an urban center & to move among a certain socioeconomic group. Certain swathes of America still have attitudes firmly entrenched from 20 or even 30 years ago. I can see this even in my neighborhood, in one of the poorest parts of Westchester County, though it's less than a half-hour train ride into Manhattan. No health clubs within the city limits. Few people out running in the morning on the streets. But if I change my route & go about eight blocks north, to affluent Bronxville, the streets & the park are full of runners, there's a health club, the high school's continuing ed program offers exercise classes, and there's even a (sadly failing) running gear shop on the main street in the village. There is a dedicated fish shop. The grocery store stocks far, far more fresh produce than its counterpart of the same name in my neighborhood. (Actually, my neighborhood's grocery store was closed -- they wouldn't DARE do that in the more affluent neighborhood.) How many people in my neighborhood are reading Michael Pollan, as opposed to in Bronxville, where cooking classes & gourmet catering & Italian bistros abound?

So what I am saying is doing maintenance after losing a great deal of weight may end up being some peoples' most radical political act, ever. Little do they realize when they set out to get healthy that they have joined a countercultural movement.

Saef,

I just want to say I enjoy your posts so very much.

I went to an obesity medicine conference and there was a speaker who said we make hundreds of food choices everyday. We do live in a culture where we have to make purposeful decisions to eat healthy, to be healthy. Like Glory says, eating well doesn't happen by accident. That is why I feel I do need to remain vigilant---for me, the status quo in my culture, town, life, social atmosphere is not a super healthy one. Although I am lucky. I live in a city with great weather and great options for outdoor activity. But I feel like it would be too easy to slip back into the Standard American Diet if I stopped paying attention. I do have good habits in place, and safeguards, and maybe one day I'll be able to have enough faith in these habits and safeguards to relax about it all....but then again, maybe not. Most people regain the weight. My role models for maintenance are the ladies here. They keep paying attention and it works for them.....

Eating well and exercising is a radical change in behavior. I like being counter-culture!

saef,

I absolutely enjoyed every word of your post. How insightful and thought provoking it was. If you aren't a published author, (aside from 3FC) you should be.

Thank you.

I've been reading these posts the last few days and they have really made me start thinking about some things...

I'm new to maintenance - actually, it was six months last Friday, I just haven't had time to take the pics I had planned to post with a goal story. My DH asks me at least once each week why I'm still weighing the ingredients I put in my smoothie each morning or the peanut butter I put on my cracker, why I 'obsessively' log my food into TDP every day if I'm not dieting, etc. People at work ask me why I bring my own salad dressing packet and skip the onion rings pretty much every day since I look so great and have exceeded my goal. People just expect that now I won't have to count or weigh or track and are surprised by my answers. I know I'm going to have candy, I know I'm going to go over with a chocolate chip cookie from starbucks one day, I know I'm going to eat cheesy italian food, if I don't track the rest I'm not free to do that when I want. I also need the control of the counting and the weighing and the tracking, it makes me feel more comfortable, not restricted. I'll likely continue to do that for the rest of my life. I'm just not good enough to estimate and stay in range. Some people might be, I can't.

I still have to make myself get up and exercise every day, and I get questions about that, too. People want to know why I feel like I have to exercise so much when 'everybody says 30 minutes three times per week is plenty'. Well, who is everybody and how do they know what is plenty for me? I like the way I feel from exercise and I'm going to keep doing it.

On the other side of the discussion, I'm more like Wendalyn with my maintenance in some areas. I do eat more sweet stuff and eat more calories than some. I've also learned that I can exercise a lot less than some others and still maintain. It makes sense that the reason for that is that I weighed less to begin with than some people who lost so my metabolism wasn't damaged. I'll continue to pay attention though, because who knows if it will always be easier to maintain.

I like what Saef said about the counter-culture - absolutely true. Even the people closest to me look at me like I'm a little nuts... Some I think do it because they are jealous, others just don't understand. I like my life now don't plan to change it. I like that I could do the four flights of stairs at the hospital this weekend over and over without having to take the elevator. I like that I ate way too much Laffy Taffy last week and three slices of pizza for dinner on Saturday and haven't seen a weight gain. I like the fact that I ran 10 miles last week and felt great. I like the fact that logging my food each morning makes me feel peaceful and ready for the day.

I do have the good fortune that it is easier for me than for some others - I don't have to be constantly vigilant, but vigilance is required or I will also give in to the bright packages and the pretty labels and the 'shanny, you look too skinny, have some bacon' moments and the weight will sneak back.

I love the fact that everyone here has a slightly different experience so we can all draw from each other. That also makes me feel more in control - there are people here who have maintained for years, so why can't I?

Thanks, ladies. I appreciate your comments.

One of the reasons I joined 3FC was because I read so many insightful, eloquent posts by various members here. (Particularly in this sub-forum!) I have learned so much while lurking.

This is one of those good places where people are thinking hard about matters that concern me & sharing what they've figured out & experienced. It feels so good to be part of the discussion & to read a post that I keep thinking about later or see a topic that makes me smile in recognition.

Saef, obviously I'm biased :p but I'm continually impressed with the thoughtful and articulate posts here in the Maintainers forum. Perhaps it's because we've moved beyond the nuts and bolts of weight loss and into exploring the science and "whys" and issues of overweight/obesity and maintenance? Whatever the reason, I've always secretly thought of us as a thinking person's forum. :)

Personally, I can see where some folk read a random post here and there from our maintainers and think that maintenance can be depressing and difficult.

When I first came to 3FC I was fascinated by the maintainer threads. The whole idea of maintenance was something I hadn't really thought about. I read the accountability thread and it scared me! Here are people that have been maintaining for a LONG time and they still have to track what they eat! How depressing! How scary!

Then I read about the impressive exercise plans of some of our maintainers - same thing - OH MY - I could NEVER, EVER, EVER do that for years, and years, and years!

My impression of maintenance was that only the very, very dedicated - perfectly ON PLAN folk could really maintain. And that it was HARD WORK!

Of course, as I continued to read and post at 3FC, I got a very different picture of maintenance. I vividly remember reading Glory's posts about hardly every exercising and still maintaining! She gave me hope!

I read posts about planning for parties, and vacations, and celebrations. I slowly realized that maintenance wasn't so scary - it was, well just life. Every maintainer is different. Their plans are different, their temptations and areas where they struggle are different; yet they are the same too.

It took me a long time to even post over here. I didn't see myself as dedicated enough, strong enough, or successful enough. I exercise only 30 - 45 minutes a day - I could never keep up with Meg. I gave up no foods on my plan and I could never follow some of the plans I have seen on the accountability thread. I wasn't "worthy".


So, I understand that - for those looking in from the outside, they can't possibly understand that I really PREFER to eat raw veggies as a snack, instead of pastries and desserts. I delight in preparing the perfect spinach sandwich spread and it is actually more enjoyable to me than any empty calorie "treat" that I used to eat. They would read Robin's thread about carrying grean beans in your purse and not understand that some of us really LIKE raw green beans. We ENJOY carrying green beans around in baggies ;)

All of our maintainers are dedicated. They are aware. They are tenacious. They are part of a community that gives and gets support.

So - regardless of HOW we maintain, we are bound together by one common thread - we ARE beating the odds. We ARE succeeding. And yes, sometimes we grumble, and people remember the grumbles more than they remember our posts about how wildly happy we are. They gloss over, or ignore our threads about all the cute clothes we are hoarding, and all the active vacations we take, all the accomplishments we achieve and how IMPROVED our quality of life is.

I love maintenance. I enjoy my workouts more than I could have ever thought possible. I love the way I eat, and what I eat. In fact I enjoy the ACT of eating far more now than I ever did at 200+ lbs. Planning and preparing are not a chore, but a labor of love. The time I take to exercise and eat well, is time well spent. A balanced life is one where you believe in the things you give your time to. I believe in taking care of the body that God has given me so that I can spend quality time with the people I love. And all efforts toward that goal are worth it!

Amazingly well said CountingDown!!!
And so many others too-- what a terrific, true, inspirational thread.
I need to remember to read this thread often and remind myself of what maintaining looks like and how it looks so different for each of us.

I think we all need to be reminded from time to time that we are all different and we all came to "where we are now" in many different ways.

In Robin's first post (I use Robin as an example because I know that she knows how much I admire and respect her and am blessed to have her as a 3FC friend) she uses the word regarding maintaining as hard ....

For me...and only speaking for me....I never could use the word hard regarding maintaining.

For me, hard is holding a 4'X12' sheet of 5/8" drywall over my head with my busted up shoulder.

For me, trying to understand why a coach would belittle a high school athlete is hard.

It is easy for me to walk away from food that I shouldn't have...

Then why don't I do it?

For me I say...'cause I am lazy....

We all use different words to express our journeys. We all use different examples of what sets us free and sets us back.

For some exercise is better than sex ;)

For some exercise is a chore....a chore to continue to maintain.

We have all come to 3FC different ways...the beauty of it all is that we all keep coming back :)

Some very successful....some just starting....some on a downward spiral...

I have been here at 3FC a long time...and am proud to be!

Some of you know me very well....some don't know me at all...

To some I am one they consider a true friend....to others I am a total jerk...

There is no PERFECT DIET or PLAN...no PERFECT EXERCISE routine...

We are not perfect people....some will fail....others will not....

Some will love us...like us....

Some will despise us and try to ruin our efforts...

But I will say this TEAM....

We have ourselves....

It IS about YOU! and only YOU...you all can do this...nobody can defeat you but you...

You have yourself to count on...

And WE have each other....we are strong in numbers....strong in support....strong in knowledge.....

And yes, sometimes we grumble, and people remember the grumbles more than they remember our posts about how wildly happy we are. They gloss over, or ignore our threads about all the cute clothes we are hoarding, and all the active vacations we take, all the accomplishments we achieve and how IMPROVED our quality of life is.

Such an eye opener here. Could it possibly be the case? Do people really pick up on the grumbles of maintenance more then the joys of maintenance? How can it be? Because to me and I think ALL of us here, the joys sooooo heavily outweigh the grumbles. Okay, now I'm curious! I want to take a poll! Really.

Hmmm. Maybe it's a case of we just don't like to toot our own horn that much.

I think about a typical day. Even one where I've struggled to stay on plan. Even one where' I've gone OFF plan and I'm bothered by it. Even those lousy, difficult days, the portion of the day that is spent feeling lousy is miniscule in comparison to the amount of pleasure I receive from being a "normal" weight. I guess that just doesn't shine through - to some. I'm saddened by that, as I so want people to always know just how worth it and yes ENJOYABLE this lifestyle is. Not just being the healthy weight, but what gets us to BE that healthy weight. I wish I could change that. I wish every time I post that joy could shine through. But when I post, quite frankly, it's not always directed at helping others, sometimes it's to help me. Gosh, that sounds selfish.

And your next paragrah is brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. Those are my thoughts exactly. Brilliant, I tell you.

I love maintenance. I enjoy my workouts more than I could have ever thought possible. I love the way I eat, and what I eat. In fact I enjoy the ACT of eating far more now than I ever did at 200+ lbs. Planning and preparing are not a chore, but a labor of love. The time I take to exercise and eat well, is time well spent. A balanced life is one where you believe in the things you give your time to. I believe in taking care of the body that God has given me so that I can spend quality time with the people I love. And all efforts toward that goal are worth it!

Oh my gosh. I just read it again. Brilliant.

I will admit, when I first got to 3FC I was a little intimidated by the maintainer's forum myself. I had this vision of myself being a bitterly unhappy woman the rest of my life, smacking DH on the hand if he tried to give me an extra spoon of spaghetti sauce, hoarding my 100 cal snacks, unable to ever eat more than 1200 calories per day ever again, having to spend hours on the elliptical trainer each and every day... Seeing posts here about people with lower calorie limits, high exercise, and yes, some of the grumbling, scared me a little, too. I even posted on it several months ago as I remember. I wasn't even at goal and was terrified.

Then, one day I realized some things. I really do like salad and broccoli and peppers and onions and baked crispy green beans and raw green beans and skinny cows. Weight training or kick boxing or walking on the elliptical before work makes me feel invigorated and ready to start the day better than any energy drink I had before or since. Cute clothes made me feel good about myself instead of insecure.

It took learning those things for me to start seeing the joyful things in the maintainer's forum instead of the grumbling. I was afraid, and in my case at least, fear attaches to negativity rather than positive things. I didn't want to hear that I was going to be happy as a maintainer, I wanted to live in my fear and misery. I wanted to wallow in the fear because then I had an excuse if, when, I failed. Breaking through that has made me an entirely different person. I, like Counting Down, love my maintenance life now. I don't wake up every day afraid the other show will drop and I'll come home, drop in front of the sofa and never exercise again. I don't fear everything I eat.

In looking, I need a new tagline in my signature - that was set out of fear somewhat, too. "I will maintain..." was my mantra, like a battle cry. Have to think of something new for there... :)

In Robin's first post (I use Robin as an example because I know that she knows how much I admire and respect her and am blessed to have her as a 3FC friend) she uses the word regarding maintaining as hard ....

For me...and only speaking for me....I never could use the word hard regarding maintaining.

Gary, we posted at the same time.

I get your point. Very, very well. And it's a darn good one. I suppose I will have to be choosier with my words.

Like I've said dozens and dozens of times, the hard of losing weight/maintenance is nothing, nothing in comparison to the hard of being morbidly obese/obese/overweight.

But even not in comparison, hard is probably the wrong word. Or perhaps there are better ones. It's hard to say. ;)

It is a joy to be able to maintain. It IS a joy to turn down food. I've never regreted it. Not even once. There was never, ever a time where I've said, "gosh, I should have eaten that xyz. What was I thinking?" Never.

It IS a joy to be on plan. It IS a joy to eat healthy foods in healthy portions. It IS a joy to refrain from overeating and saying no to "junk". It IS a joy to be able to exercise.

Maintenance is simple in many ways. I KNOW exactly what to do. It's definitely ingrained in me. Definitely. It HAS become second nature. I really do enjoy the whole process. But. Now, you've got me thinking about your lazy comment, Gary. I don't think that is fitting for me. Hmmm. My mind is taking me back to hard again. Okay. Wait. Maintenance isn't hard, per se'. But certain days or times, well it doesn't go as smoothly as others, shall we say? It's more difficult to implement. Whether it be due to stress, boredom, time constraints, higher temptations around me, traveling, or certain social situations, to name a few.

It really is complicated to try and explain what I mean by hard.

Where's Meg? Or Glory? ;) I bet they'd have no problem doing it.

ROOOOBBBBIIIINNNN!!!! YELLING HERE!!!!! ;)


for YOU the word HARD in that context makes sense...

for me it doesn't...the word LAZY does....

we are both RIGHT!

We are all different and see things differently....

Ya know....

there are days I come home from work and Angie has a nice salad with chicken in it for my dinner....

I am so thankful...

there are days I come home from work and Angie has a nice salad with chicken it in for my dinner...

I am so P.O.!....I wanted MEAT!!!

it is still a salad with chicken...I just see it different sometimes...

:club: You'll eat that chicken salad and you'll like it, Mister! :rollpin:

Thank you Michelle, and you are right - so many, many words of wisdom in this thread!


LOL - Gary! To THIS vegetarian - Chicken IS Meat!

But, I totally understand your post. I'm the same way! My perspective shifts day, by day and sometimes minute, by minute. But, overall, I am very blessed and grateful that I am a maintainer and that I have 3FC as a support system.

Wow, come late and you have an hour's worth of reading. Great posts everyone - lots of things to think about. Me - I'm grateful you're all here with your wonderful outlook and your varied ways of maintaining. It keeps me motivated to keep going. Thanks! :)

Muchly appreciate the discussion of hard and lazy and grumbling. I particularly appreciate being reminded how much I like the life I lead that brings me to this weight, to this health.

I was moved some 20 years ago by the first sentences in The Road Less Traveled, by M. Scott Peck: Life is difficult. This is a great truth. One of the greatest truths.

Once we truly know that life is difficult - once we truly understand and accept it - then life is no longer difficult. Because once it is accepted, the fact that life is difficult no longer matters. Perhaps, when I'm as enlightened as the Dalai Lama, I'll no longer grumble about how long it takes to dice onions when cooking lentil stew for a week of hot lunches. Because I'll first remember that difficult is part of living and joy is what I'm feeling as I dice because I'm living well.

What a great discussion ... very helpful.

I've been maintaining for 14 months now. I relate to the person who said something like: maintenance is 60% no big deal, 30% somewhat difficult, and 10% WHY CAN'T I EAT A SCONE LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!! :-)

I've had to establish a new "normal" lifestyle for myself, and some days are easy, some days are a little more challenging, and some days I just fall completely off of plan. The difference now is that I dust myself off and start again after those "off plan" days. I don't lapse into that all-or-nothing mindset, thinking I've blown it all now and just keep going down the wrong path. One off-plan day, or even week, won't cause me to regain the weight permanently ... it's the off plan months and years that will do that. Yes, I'll have to re-pay those extra calorie somewhere (by establishing an equivalent deficit), and it may take days or weeks, but it doesn't mean The End of my maintenance journey. When I regained weight in the past, it was because I stopped self-monitoring, stopped exercising, and avoided the scale. That's what I can NOT do, I need to self-monitor forever.

I read an article on maintenance (sorry can't remember where right now) that said that weight maintenance seems to get easier if you've kept the weight off for 2 years. I suspect that's because the new lifestyle is working and has become more or less habit over time. I will probably always have to keep a food diary, because that is a tool that helps me stay mindful of what I'm eating. I definitely always have to exercise, because I need the calorie burn, and because I like it! I will always eat lots of veggies, lean protein, and watch carbs and fats, because that's the only way I can fill up and still stay within my calorie budget. It's all about calories in and calories out. But as time goes on, it becomes less about a "diet plan" and more just the way I live.

But is it worth it -- you bet!! I'd certainly rather work a bit to stay where I am and enjoy all of the benefits of being thinner -- I'm healthier, happier, and look way better in my clothes.

ROOOOBBBBIIIINNNN!!!! YELLING HERE!!!!! ;)


for YOU the word HARD in that context makes sense...

for me it doesn't...the word LAZY does....

we are both RIGHT!

We are all different and see things differently....

Oh absolutely. I'm sorry that didn't show through in my post. Believe it or not, that's what I trying to say. I wasn't disagreeing with you. You can stop yelling now ;). And for goodness sake, you've got someone cooking you healthy meals. Sheesh. Eat, enjoy and like what that dear woman is serving you.

I've thought about the *hard* part last night. And I come back to it again. I see others picked up on it as well. I've come to some of the same conclusions as the others. Sometimes it's ez sheazy, sometimes it's - hard. It varies. Life varies. Things are rarely the same week to week, or even day to day, or hour to hour for that matter. That is just how life is. And "maintenance" is just part of that life.

One quote that I love:

"If we would just recognize that life was hard, things would be much easier"

Another one:

"I hear people speak that life is hard. And I sigh and I am tempted to ask, as compared to what?"

These quotes remind me of Bills quote. And they ring out to me.

I do have a question though - is it okay if I still grumble from time to time? Oh please, please say yes!

Because it's 12 degrees outside, winds are whipping around something fierce, there's snow and ice everywhere, I'm just about to run out of plum tomatoes & romaine hearts and I need to go out and get some. And it's MARCH 3RD. NOT FEBRUARY 3RD.

Grumble over - for now. ;)

I do want to mention just how grateful I am to be able to converse with all of you very wise maintainers. Very grateful indeed. :hug:

Yes, dear Robin, it's OK if you and I and everyone else still grumbles at times. Because this forum is about the realities of maintenance. And the reality of maintenance does indeed mean grumbling at times. :)

I've always thought that knowledge is power. So when I reached my goal weight back in 2002, I sought out as much knowledge and information that I could find about maintenance. And there really wasn't much of anything out there. 2002 was the heyday of Body For Life and 12-week transformations and no one was talking about what happened afterwards. 3FC didn't have a Maintainers forum, there weren't any maintainers hanging around, and I was lost.

It was pure luck that I stumbled on the winning formula of just keeping on doing in maintenance what I did to lose weight. My usual toolbox of weight loss strategies was all I knew how to do and I was good at it, so it was my default. Who knew that it was the key to maintenance success?

Thankfully, we now have a Maintainers forum! The purpose of this forum is to share and support others in the realities of maintenance, regardless of where they are in the weight loss journey. But if knowlege is power, are we really doing anyone a favor by being less than honest about our maintenance experiences? If it's not true for us personally, should we still pretend that maintenance is easy, all our food issues are resolved, or that we can maintain on 30 minutes of exercise three times a week? Should we self-censor to promote an unrealistic view of maintenance?

We actively encourage people to think about maintenance from Day One of their weight loss. But it's essential to recognize that there's a world of difference between the theories and practices of maintenance. We may think that maintenance will be a certain way for us -- and it may turn out to be a completely different experience. As so many of you have pointed out, it's important to recognize that what seems to be a hardship and depressing to an outsider may not be experienced that way at all by the person in question.

So long as there is a Maintainers Forum, it will be dedicated to the realities of maintenance. Not a sanitized, idealized view of maintenance. It will always be OK to talk about struggles, hardships, and challenges, as well as joys and achievements. We're all different people and experience maintenance in our own unique ways and there is not and will never be a party line on the correct way to do maintenance here. Everyone's experiences are valid, everyone has a right to share them, no one needs to self-censor, and it is -- as I've said before -- highly inappropriate to make negative and judgmental comments about others' personal maintenance experiences.

I think a good grumble is healthy from time to time....a short time though.

I know what's good for me gals! I NEVER complain (on the outside) about chicken in my salad!

I learned a long time ago a guy can use that "Where's the beef?" just so much...I also learned date night doesn't have to come EVERY week....

We all learn lessons in life as we go about our journeys...

Enjoy yours today!

Working close to home...nice to see you all in the morning.......bye

Grumble away. Me, I'm grumbling about below zero temps - again! - with more snow - hey, it's MARCH! I'm grumbling because my cottage cheese was sour - again - and I just bought it Sunday. Time to change brands, or stores.

While I'm not back at my goal, neither am I at my all time high, and every pound I go down leaves me feeling better. :)

Robin - thank you for your kind words! They mean a lot to me. Your posts are always insightful and passionate. I love reading of your journey through maintenance. You are one of the people that helped me so many times along the way.

And - yes - please grumble!

I'm continually in awe of how many wise and wonderful folk there are here. So much wisdom on this thread!

I think Meg's point about what this thread is about is so important. That was an awesome post! This space is for maintainers. It is to help us on our journey. Yes, others lurk and occasionally post, and we can't help how they think or respond to our words. But, I think we have to be honest and open and share our joys AND frustrations. How else can we be part of this community?

I honestly think that the maintainer's forum is the most important one here at 3FC

Having maintainers posting daily throughout the threads is what makes 3FC unique. There are many, many weight loss communities online. They don't have the same "feel", the same sense of community that we do here. Why? I believe that all of you are the reason. Every time you reach out and post and help another along the way, you are demonstrating what makes 3FC so special.

How many posts have you read lately from "returners"? Too many folk come here for support, reach their goal, and then leave - thinking that they don't need the community any longer. While I am sure that there are some that maintain without coming here, I'm betting that a much higher percentage fail. Some are wise enough to realize that 3FC was an important part of the journey and return.

So, having a home of our own, helps us on our journey - it gives us support and keeps us coming back, which in turn helps so many others.

That being said, I do believe that we walk a fine line - so many people look up to our maintainers - particularly those of you that have been doing this a long time and have lost a tremendous amount of weight. You almost become iconic around here. I recently posted on another thread that we never know who is reading what we post. The amount of views some threads receive is astounding - and we often get on a roll responding to an individual our small group without realizing how many "lurkers" are reading our words. I never want to have to censor what I write or over-think my posts, so I do think that a natural consequence of this type of medium is being misunderstood. It is an inherent danger that is inevitable.

We NEED to be able to post honestly. We NEED to be able to support each other. We NEED a space where we can be ourselves :) And Meg said it so well - we need to talk about the realities of maintenance - which includes struggles and joys - many, many joys!

Counting Down, I so agree with that post. I get so discouraged by "I'm crawling back" and "Returning....again :(" threads. I think that is so indicative of our society of "regainers". I don't mean to sound like I'm ragging on anyone, but I just get kind of bummed when people discover a healthy lifestyle and hit a road block and leave the site or find no use for 3FC if they've found success (which seems to bring them back once they are no longer successful).

This site is SO wonderful for support whether you are coasting along or hitting road blocks!

I, for one, found it most encouraging when maintainers have posted about slip ups or gaining and getting back on track. It makes it all seem much more realistic, and therefore, actually doable.

OTOH, it does discourage me a bit to see the majority so focused still on calorie counting in detail. That doesn't make it wrong. If it's what works, then that's it. But I often feel rather out of place following a more relaxed approach. Doesn't mean anyone should alter what they write, or feel bad for any reason. But I do think there needs to be room for all of us. Not that anyone would say otherwise. But I often feel like simply speaking up in a different point of view, like JayEll did, prompts VOLUMES of defense of strict calorie counting and ways of eating. I didn't think she attacked anyone, and yet so many felt like she did.

I don't feel attacked, but I totally agree with you, Julie. Strict calorie counting/journaling isn't for everyone. I can't stress that to people enough. When I read posts from people who are just at the end of their rope with frustration, I can't help but think it's because journaling/counting is just another tool that people try to squeeze into the "one size fits all" weightloss box. I had an unorthodox approach by 3FC standards, but I certainly don't feel attacked, just the voice of the minority. I think it's a valuable perspective. In fact, I love it when people comment to me, "you don't log all your calories?? You don't know how many calories you ate today??? What a relief!" Just another side of the story :)

Don't get me wrong, I do things that others would never do because it doesn't suit them (eliminating certain foods), but the point I like to make is that weightloss is NOT a one size fits all effort. I think if people focused more on what works for them rather than what just works for weightloss, there would be a lot more success stories.

Thanks JulieJ08! And junebug41!

Folks just feel strongly. I understand where they are coming from. It's scary.

Sometimes I track, and sometimes I don't. Currently I'm tracking to make sure I'm eating enough, because evidently I was undereating without realizing it. I'm glad I have a tracking tool for times when I want to look more closely!

Jay

OTOH, it does discourage me a bit to see the majority so focused still on calorie counting in detail.

Calorie counting is how most of us lost our weight. We're just continuing it. So yes, we're still doing it. Because, well, it STILL works for us. Why would we give that up?

I think mostly what we're saying, is that whatever you did to lose the weight, you should expect to continue doing that to maintain the loss. If you didn't count calories to lose the weight, then what did you do? Whatever that answer may be - you should expect to continue to do THAT in order to mantain the loss.

"Whatever that answer may be - you should expect to continue to do THAT in order to mantain the loss."

Can this be put at the top of every thread, please :lol: It's simple, to the point, and totally true.

I've adjusted some things along the way, tried new things... but the effort and practices I put forth has to be the same in order to maintain. It's as simple as that.

OTOH, it does discourage me a bit to see the majority so focused still on calorie counting in detail.
Calorie counting is how most of us lost our weight. We're just continuing it. So yes, we're still doing it. Because, well, it STILL works for us. Why would we give that up?

OTOH, it does discourage me a bit to see the majority so focused still on calorie counting in detail. That doesn't make it wrong. If it's what works, then that's it.

Wouldn't you have answered your own question if you hadn't truncated my post? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but, well, geez, aren't you arguing exactly what I actually said?

Julie, please, I promise you I was not looking to argue with you. I was trying to point out that we're still counting, because that's what we did to lose, just as I firmly believe everyone should continue their losing weight method as their maintaining weight method.

The following question was rhetorical, I wasn't asking you personally. And I wasn't trying to be argumentative.

Why would we give that up?

I find it sad that ANYONE would be made to feel bad or wrong for their maintenance method...whether that method is calorie counting (and many of us have heard the "oh, you're skinny now - lighten up") or a less-strict method. What works for each of us is individual and, in such a supportive place as 3FC, we should back eachother up on whatever method it is that works. Just my opinion.

In every society, there are things people are taught, so subtley it is at an almost unconscious level. In this culture, we're taught to expect that maintenance WILL be different than weight loss. We expect it, without realizing we're expecting it. Somehow, but we're not sure how, maintenance should become such second nature, that we won't have to think about it.
It's a false belief that we're taught (without realizing we're being taught) to believe in, but we often don't recognize it as the "easter bunny or tooth fairy" that it is, often because we're not even aware that we believe it. Or we know that it's false, but want it to be true so badly, that we get "bummed" that it isn't being true - it's like being 7 and having a classmate tell you there's no Santa - you either feel betrayed or refuse to believe it's true.

When you think about it, counting calories (or points, or exchanges or carb grams) isn't any more difficult than many things we do every day, and yet no one says "you mean, you're still ___________ (brushing your teeth, balancing your checkbook, grocery shopping, going to work every day, taking care of your children, sleeping....)

That maintenance will require many if not most of the skills it took to lose, isn't a bleak or depressing fact, it's just a fact. If we're sad, despressed, angry, frustrated.... by that fact, that's not the fact, that's us, deciding we don't LIKE the fact. Even though I loved my careers, I used to get bummed that I had to go to work every day, never realizing that one day I would become disabled and become very bummed not being able to. But even my health problems and disability aren't really sad facts, they're just facts. I don't have to be sad (not that it isn't completely normal and ok, once in a while).

Tell ya what, I'll check back in a couple of years and let you know whether my idea that maintenance can become second nature is the same as a belief in the easter bunny, tooth fairy, or santa....

Jay

Wow! We are all so passionate about what we are doing! It is actually inspiring to me to see so many people so excited about being healthy!

We all got here by walking on different roads, so it stands to reason that we would walk on different roads while we are here too. At least we have somewhere supportive to go when we stumble on the road. I would like to believe that maintenance will be second nature to me someday, that I can track my calories in my head and not have to write everything down so specifically. I hope it will!

And Jay, what do you mean there is no Santa? After my first Christmas with a four year old I firmly believe in Santa, but in this case that Santa is me! :)

I'm not sure why maintaining without calorie counting is being equated as different from how one lost the weight. I haven't counted calories since I was at 159. So really, I think I have every reason to expect to be able to maintain this way, seeing as I'm losing the last 20-30 pounds this way. I do think if your weight loss was entirely built on calorie counting, then your early maintenance will be too. Perhaps forever, perhaps not.

OTOH, it does discourage me a bit to see the majority so focused still on calorie counting in detail. That doesn't make it wrong. If it's what works, then that's it. But I often feel rather out of place following a more relaxed approach. Doesn't mean anyone should alter what they write, or feel bad for any reason. But I do think there needs to be room for all of us. Not that anyone would say otherwise. But I often feel like simply speaking up in a different point of view, like JayEll did, prompts VOLUMES of defense of strict calorie counting and ways of eating. I didn't think she attacked anyone, and yet so many felt like she did.

I also follow a more relaxed approach than the majority here (though I do count calories), and I also feel out of place, which is why I mostly lurk. I eat whatever I want, which is precisely why I still count calories. I *cannot* deal with restriction. If you tell me I can't have X I'll go on a week-long binge-fest on X. I just don't do "forbidden foods" at all. I just had an ice cream cone at Mc Donald's. It's hot as **** here and I was craving it. 200 calories, not the end of the world. Do I have one every day? No. Will I have one tomorrow? Probably not. Next week? Maybe. This is why the whole "bleak future" comment made sense to me. A future with no chocolate or pizza or ice cream seems pretty bleak to me. To ME. It obviously doesn't seem that way to many other people, and that explains why they took it so strongly. As it's been repeated a million times in this thread, whatever works for you. What I'm doing is not perfect, but I've been in my healthy weight range for 13 years (although above goal for the past 7), so I must be doing something right.

Thanks for all of you who have a more relaxed approach for posting!

ClaraBr - That isn't so foreign to the maintainers. I figure we're about 50-50 split on "I have some junk but count my calories" and "I eat clean almost all of the time" folks here. No need to lurk!

For what it's worth, I count calories with mostly whole foods, and some junk thrown in. It's a good balance for me.

Just like there's no ONE diet/lifestyle plan that works for everyone, the same rule obviously applies towards maintenance too. What works for me OBVIOUSLY may not work for others, SO BE IT! No need to judge or dismiss anyones lifestyle by thinking your way is the better way or the ONLY way, because obviously it is not, there are many routes! We are all different, we lost on different plans, we can certainly maintain on different plans too. Besides, all ROADS lead to the same maintenanceland, it doesn't matter one I-oda how we got here, nor how we stay here!

ClaraBr - that is me, too. I count my calories but eat a fair amount of junky food in there - pizza, candy, etc. I most definitely would not describe myself as a mostly clean eater. I just had pizza this weekend, as a matter of fact. :)

You don't have to lurk! Come on out and post sometimes!

Well, if we all bought the same cereal/toothpaste/makeup etc. or went to the same church/mosque/synagogue (or none), the world would be dull and boring. So why should we all use the same weight loss or maintenance approach? I do what works for me. Sometimes I read about something different and I'll try it. I might incorporate some of it into my "plan" or not. Same with exercise. No one says there is one right and only way. I'm 64 years old and I know from years of living that there is no way on this earth that I am going to get up at 5:30 am to exercise on a regular basis. Just not for me. But does that make you morning exercisers wrong - nope (nuts, maybe though :lol: ). We mostly agree that we need to exercise, that we need to find a way of eating that gets us to and keeps us at our goal. I might take the slow, scenic way, others the superhighway. We all (hopefully) get there. This has been a great discussion. :)

ClaraBr - That isn't so foreign to the maintainers. I figure we're about 50-50 split on "I have some junk but count my calories" and "I eat clean almost all of the time" folks here. No need to lurk!

For what it's worth, I count calories with mostly whole foods, and some junk thrown in. It's a good balance for me.

You can sign my name to this post as well. But frankly, I think (not sure) that even more than 50% of us have some junk thrown in.

Gosh, I make that sound like it's a good thing that I eat junk on occasion. As if I would be abnormal or something if I didn't. As if eating healthy 100% of the time is wrong and needs to be defended.

Tell ya what, I'll check back in a couple of years and let you know whether my idea that maintenance can become second nature is the same as a belief in the easter bunny, tooth fairy, or santa....


For me, I can tell you right now. After 20 months of maintenance, I'm happy to say that maintenance has become second nature to me. Luckily, calorie counting has become second nature to me as well, though that occured long before I hit maintenance. :)

Geez, leave for a couple days...

I think this is a very interesting thread, because it does highlight the differences between us, and that is valuable. People who are new to the lifestyle change need to know that there is more than one way to do it, and if one way doesn't work, another one might. I think it is also worth pointing out, having been through some major life changes since I started my journey, that what works at first may not work later, or vice versa, since life is long and never static. Neither is weight or maintenance.

People are obviously passionate about the methods that changed their lives, and sometimes that can be a little off-putting because that passion doesn't always translate well to the Internet, and comes off as a dug-in, my way is right, nothing else works attitude, when almost none of us really think that.

I often feel like an alien here. My "after" weight is higher than many people's "before." I think a 10% weight loss that is kept off for a year is cause to celebrate even if you never approach an "ideal" weight of any sort. And yes, even for me and not just other people. I hate low-carb/high-protein diets with a passion. Don't even get me started on how damaging using an "ideal" weight for a goal weight can be. I don't do much strength training, even though I think I should. I'm willing, although not thrilled to take a month to lose 2 lbs. I weigh daily, and sometimes more often for various reasons (measuring fluid loss during a run for example). I am not afraid of Twinkies, but dread the PB Cup. I think getting my thought processes straight is by far more important than my macronutrient ratio, and I use a lot of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy techniques. I'm probably in the minority on most of these points, and can easily find counterexamples, and other opinions on almost all of them here amongst us. I also know that what works for me will not work for some other people, but it might work for others, so I post, sometimes to get support, ask for advice, but also sometimes to show that there is more than one way to do it.

So aliens, keep posting. Keep me company. Talk about what works, even if it isn't fashionable or popular. There really is more than one way to do it.

Having said all that, the biggest common thread I see here at Maintainers, and by far the most important one, is that everyone here is 100% committed to making a serious change in lifestyle, and recognizing the importance of that. Whatever that change is or those changes are. However hard it is. It may not be THE most important thing in our lives (it isn't for me), or it might, but it is way up on that list.

Anne

I'm not arguing that maintenance has to be calorie counting, or that with or without calorie counting, eventually maintenance couldn't become second nature. It's possible that your maintenance may be exactly like your weight loss, or somewhat different (or maybe even very different), but a rigid expectation of maintenance being a certain way (and especially of any alternative being "bleak") can set a person up for failure. If you expect maintenance to be easy, and find it isn't, what's your next step? Giving up or finding what you can and are willing to do?

If you believe that at your goal weight, your work is over and you can eat whatever you want, and don't have to exercise..... you're probably wrong, and if you don't learn and adapt quickly, you're going to probably gain the weight back.

However you lost your weight, if maintenance has to be similar, are you willing to do it anyway? If not, you're probably going to gain the weight back.

If maintenance has to be different than you lost it, are you willing to do that?
Often people do lose weight by an unsustainable method - maybe a liquid diet or a meal delivery service, or appetite suppressants. If so, maintenance could be completely different than their weight loss, but it still has to be effective. The odds that maintenance will mean "doing nothing," are pretty slim.

The point is that maintenance has to be.... something rather than nothing. Having no plan for maintenance is probably worse than having a plan that isn't reasonable.

Weight loss requires trial and error, and I don't see maintenance any differently. Maybe maintenance won't be like weight loss, but I need to be prepared to make it what it has to be, whatever that is.

I am enjoying this thread immensely! So much wisdom and good discussion! Count me in the "mostly whole foods" and some less healthy foods thrown in, camp.
Dark chocolate and red wine are part of my daily routine. I had to move my Jelly Belly dispenser off my desk since my recent consumption was, well :o

DH and I take "wine-n-dine" mini vacations several times a year.

But what has been said eloquently by others, the reason I can maintain, is because I plan for these indulgences. Maintenance isn't about "perfect" eating. It is about knowing what works for us. And, when we do go off-plan, knowing what we have to do. With the word DO being the operative one.

Some think I am crazy because I still count calories. Yet, it works for me. While I can go several days without counting and still stay on plan, giving up counting completely would be dangerous ground. I gained 10 lbs a year over 10 years by over-eating just a few calories here, and a few calories there. For me - and only for me - I need to count. It is an important piece of my maintenance puzzle.

Some think I am a scale addict because I weigh daily. Again, not weighing for years is what got me into trouble in the first place. For me, that scale is another important piece in the maintenance puzzle.

Some think I am obsessed with exercise because I can't go more than a day without it. For me, my body needs exercise to stay strong and healthy. It is an important piece of my life at 51. Use it or lose it seems to apply when you get past 50. So, exercise is another important piece in my maintenance puzzle.

Some think I am crazy when I talk about yoga, or meditation, or prayer, or daily balance. I work hard at balance. Not balancing my life got me into trouble with stress and mindless eating. So, for me - balance is an important piece of my maintenance puzzle.

DH is wondering why I am typing at 11;30 p.m. instead of sleeping. Community is an important piece of my maintenance puzzle.

My maintenance puzzle looks different from everyone else's here. Are there pieces that look similar? Yes. In fact, some of my pieces might be interchangeable with some of yours. But, no two puzzles look exactly the same.

Honestly, I can't say if maintenance has become a second nature for me yet. But some things pertaining to maintenance do, so I guess this at least is possible. (Examples include how I now plan all my meals around a fruit or a vegetable, instead of around a starch; or how I think twice before eating some junk food, realizing that 9 out of 10 times, I actually don't really want it, and therefore feel it's not hard at all to 'resist'.)

I don't really count calories, I only make sure to weigh certain foods, like pasta and rice. But my case might be a little peculiar, in that counting sent me through obssessing, and so I'm not too eager to go that road again. I know for sure that counting DOES work for many people here. So, indeed, whatever works for us, trial & error, to each their own, and all that. :)

I've been maintaining my (relatively small) weight loss now for just about five years. I don't always log my food, but I eat pretty much the same things I did when I was dieting, just more of it. I find it helpful to have a goal at all times such as being able to do more pullups/pushups, etc. After so many years, I do still occasionally indulge, but it generally makes me ill at some point later so I know better than to pig out! I follow a modified BFL/Precision Nutrition type diet with 5-6 small meals and I do one high calorie day each week.

I don't weigh in very often but enough to keep me on track, probably about twice a month. As I said, I pretty much eat and do the same things each day so there's no need in my case for daily weights.

I lost < 50 lbs so YMMV with much more impressive weight losses.

Ya gotta laugh, not in it's a funny thing, but in a it's kinda sad that you're just missing something here.

Imagine saying to a diabetic, "you're still avoiding sugar", "you still have to check your blood sugar levels so frequently."

Imagine saying to a 5 year in recovering alchoholic - "you're still going to AA meetings, "you still won't walk into a bar?"

Imagine saying to a recovering drug addict - "you still don't hang out with your old partying buddies, "you're still seeing a therapist"

Pretty unheard of, don't you think??????

RRobin, that's the real unkindness for ex-obese people - we HAVE to eat, something.
Alcoholics Can avoid alcohol, and survive.
Drug addicts Can avoid drugs, and survive.
and no, I'm not belittling the effort that takes.
Diabetics Can avoid sugar, and survive.

The ex-obese Can't avoid food and survive. Which is why I know that When I get to maintenance, I'm going to have to be as focussed, even rigid, as my weightloss programme currently is. No disrespect to those who do it differently but I have discovered that I just cannot be trusted round food.

Absolutely - we HAVE to eat. Going without food is of course not an otion.

But - and here's the thing - we don't HAVE to eat fried food to survive. Or fast food or ice cream or cookies. And we don't HAVE to overeat.

And we CAN set up strategies and continue to implement them to avoid overeating and eating the "wrong" foods. We can continue to set ourselves up for success - by calorie counting, saying "no" to many items, rules to abide by, planning ahead, exercise, frequent weighing, etc. Just like the alcoholic continues to go to AA meetings and avoids bars. He's continuing to set himself up for success, because he knows what got him to stop drink still needs to be practiced. Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. Just a recovering one. Not a cured one. He wants to insure his sobriety.

Setting yourself up for success. It makes perfect sense, to me that is.

No disrespect to those who do it differently but I have discovered that I just cannot be trusted round food.


You know, I used to think I couldn't either. But after years of maintenance, I found out I actually *can* be trusted around certain foods. Take chocolate, for example. I never ate it when I was losing, and when I started maintaining I started eating it again because to me life without chocolate is just too sad. So since I'd never learned moderation before, what happened was I'd go days without chocolate, then I'd binge on it, then I'd go days again without it, then binge, repeat, repeat, repeat. Then one day I got tired of it. I thought I had to *learn* moderation. I started buying large chocolate bars and having them in the house at all times. It wasn't easy in the beginning. I binged many times (and I still do sometimes). But now, after... I don't know, 6 years or so, I'm happy to say chocolate is not the enemy anymore. I got *used* to having it in the house. There are still foods I'd rather not buy (like certain kinds of cookies), but overall I'd say I've developed a healthier relationship with food. Again, it might not work for everyone, but it did work for me. If somebody had told me 15 years ago that I'd be able to have chocolate bars in the house and not eat them all in one sitting I'd have laughed.

ClaraBr - That isn't so foreign to the maintainers. I figure we're about 50-50 split on "I have some junk but count my calories" and "I eat clean almost all of the time" folks here. No need to lurk!

For what it's worth, I count calories with mostly whole foods, and some junk thrown in. It's a good balance for me.

I must be reading the wrong posts then, because I honestly had the impression that the majority here was eating super clean! (of course I don't usually read the daily accountability threads, so what do I know?). Anyway, I'm gonna start paying more attention!

I think everyone agrees that maintenance - like weight loss - is a uniquely personal experience and results may vary :)

Keep on keeping on :)