PCOS/Insulin Resistance Support - Chicken/Egg Question: Which came first, the weight or the PCOS?

based on some of the informal research i've done on the internet, it seems that most people developed pcos as a result of significant weight gain, and when they lost weight, many of the symptoms disappeared or otherwise resolved themselves.
and as we all know, pcos makes it really difficult to lose weight.
i have had the no period thing since i was about 13 or 14 and only about 110-115 lbs, at this same height. it just kinda never happened for me. at 16 i went on the pill to regulate this situation. and at 27, after no change in a decade, i finally got tested and received the pcos dx, which led me to believe that i had a lifetime of significant weight gain as a result of the pcos, not the other way around.

which came first? or is it cause for some and effect for others? yes i know the exact causes of pcos aren't clear and genetics plays a roll, but i feel like the weight thing is something that people commonly attribute as a cause.

I think irregular periods during adolescence is fairly common, with or without pcos.

I have never had regular periods and I have always been overweight by at least 50 pounds. I've often thought about what came first, the pcos or obesity and with me it was the obesity. I tend to think that was the cause. It's an unfortunate cycle though, because once you're overweight/obese with pcos you're kind of screwed in the weightloss department. It only exacerbates both problems.

I have always been overweight but it wasn't until I hit puberty that the weight shot up at an incredible rate. From what I've read, its common for PCOS to kind of be dormant but it has become active once someone becomes overweight.

For me, PCOS is definately a result of weight gain. I used to have normal (albeit heavy) periods until I went over 300 lbs.

I'm pretty upset that I did this to myself, now that we want to have kids. All those good years of fertility wasted.

But it is my main motiviation for losing weight, my doctor said once I get below 300 lbs, we can start fertility treatments. Thinking about that keeps me on plan every day.

yeah i'm kind of angry actually because i have always had this premonition that i would have fertility problems due to my basically NEVER ovulating. but when you're a 16 year old kid, most doctors don't really take your fertility concerns too seriously and just dismissed it as "oh you're young, don't worry about it." i just wonder if it was a the-pcos-came-first-and-the-weight-came-from-the-pcos situation what things would have been like had someone listened to me and actually done a hormone panel and diagnosed me back when i was in hs. maybe i could've saved myself the next 55 lbs or something. that would have made the last 15 years completely different for me in terms of emotional stability, happiness, and self esteem.
i guess i'll never know.

That's a really good point. A really good point.

I know a LOT of girls that were hospitalized with ruptured ovarian cysts (myself included) and I can tell you that hormone panels were probably NOT part of the standard of care in those situations.

Should I ever have a daughter and she shows any signs of pcos I will push for at least that basic test.

We may never know. But personally, I feel that the PCOS causes the weight issue, due to the hormonal problems. I know for me..I find it weird that I am one of FIVE girls..and I am the only one who has weight issues, and BOTH of my parents are on the thinner side?? So I think the weight came first in my case.

Interesting enough..I just had a visit with a NEW RE, where we discussed how I can't seem to lose anymore weight..and he said that low-carb would probably be the only way I would get below 200. Oy.:dizzy:

Yea I had a similar thought process myself. It wasn't until I was hitting puberty, broke my foot at 10 (and was in a cast so fairly immobile) and learned about comfort foods did I even start to gain weight really. I was always a small child (5lbs 9oz and 18inches long at birth! and then up through about 9 I was either always underweight or right where I should have been for my height though I was always short!) and then when puberty hit BAM! 30lbs thanks to the hormonal changes and being stuck in a cast. And then from there I just continually went up and up in weight (with the occasional weight loss that was short lived) and my periods were never normal, I had the hirustism, and high cholesterol for my age. My weight finally stabilized in my late teens and it wasn't until I was almost 20 when I gained 30lbs out of nowhere due to my thyroid and then 2 years later another 20+lbs due to going off b.c. And then I didn't have a period for 6 MONTHS! So I don't know what the case was for me. I personally think I had the PCOS from the beginning and it became even more exacerbated due to the weight gain from the thyroid. But that's my personal pet theory.

H'm.. good question!

For me.. I think I had the PCOS first... or well.. I'm not sure actually :)

I've always been an over weight person.. I was always the chubby friend in middle school through high school. And I never had my period. It wasnt until after highschool when I finally went to the doc to get it checked out. She diagnosed me with PCOS and it wasnt until I was on bc that I was finally able to have one. It was after this dx where I gained 30+pounds and really started to see the side affects of the condition, the hirustism and high cholesterol for my age.


-Katherynn

I would have to say for me the PCOS probably came first. I was never overweight through my teens and I always had regular cycles. At about 22 I started to have late and/or missing periods. After that I started to put on weight like crazy.

My understanding is that PCOS is inherited, and many of the symptoms appear regardless of the weight of the person who has inherited PCOS, but weight gain may worsen some sumptoms (for example insulin resistance, whether part of PCOS or not, seems to both cause weight gain, and be worsened by weight gain - so a snowballing endlessly worsening cycle can ensue).

I can see that gaining weight could worsen symptoms, but you've either inhereted the trait(s) for PCOS or you haven't. Even if some of the symptoms of PCOS appear after weight gain doesn't mean the PCOS was caused by the weight gain, rather the weight gain may just be the first symptom that appears in PCOS. It's sort of like chicken pox - if the fever occurs before the rash appears, that doesn't mean that the fever caused the rash, it's just the order in which the disease tends to progress.

i totally agree!

You know, this thread got me wondering if I even have PCOS. When I had a ultrasound done a few months ago the woman who did it said that I had a beautiful uterus & ovaries looked great. I wonder if my "PCOS" is actually just PCOS like symptoms caused by a hormone imbalance b/c I am so overweight.

I was fine when I was thinner.

I have been diagnosed with Insulin Resistance, but not PCOS. I have some symptoms that overlap with PCOS, but not many that can't be attributed to Insulin Resistance alone. I do not know if insulin resistance was a precurser or a cause (or more likely a little bit of both). I do know that I had hormonal issues most of my life. I started to develop very early and had my period at 9 or 10, and my weight went absolutely crazy at puberty.

I don't know which was the chicken and which was the egg, and I suspect that it didn't matter nearly as much as the "snowball" effect did.

[QUOTE=kaplods;2610444]I started to develop very early and had my period at 9 or 10, and my weight went absolutely crazy at puberty.[QUOTE]

Me too! I started my period shortly after my 11th birthday and it was only about 9 or 10 months before that was when I broke my foot and was immobilized due to a cast (to a certain extent) and learned about comfort foods was when I really started to gain weight. Other than that I was always either normal or underweight. This is such a confusing thing. :?:

Personally, I think the PCOS came first, but it is strange how it came about. I started my period at age 11, then for the next 10 years I had irregular (but never absent) periods with extremely painful cramps so that I would miss 2 days of school a month. My doctor I saw when I was 17 told me I probably had endometriosis and put me on birth control (my mom had endo). That was that last I though of it as my cramps improved. All through this time I stayed at about a size 9 or 11, which is not overweight for my frame size, according to my doctor. When I was 22 I started gaining more weight and went up to about a size 16. By the time I was 23 I was a size 20. Throughout the weight gain I worked out 3 times a week and took an aerobic kickboxing class, and I only ate 1500 calories a day at most. Nothing helped. After my family had the "you're getting fat, do something about it" intervention, I went to the doctor and he diagnosed me with PCOS. It's been about 11 months and I've lost about 15-20 lbs. It's a very slow process for all the work I do. I know that I definitely did not cause my own weight gain.

Could the answer actually be something no one ever linked to it? It seems to me that the incidence of IR and PCOS has risen in the last 30 years like a rocket. Could the problem actually be caused by something else? Like something we all eat, or a chemical we wear or breathe? Could the cause actually be something that we have been exposed to and our bodies have responded to it in a wildly erratic way?
Not to sound all paranoid or anything but I was reading recently about how the obesity rate skyrocketed right after High Fructose Corn Syrup started being used in a lot of things. Could it be linked to that or something similar?

For me the PCOS came first. I had the irregular periods since age 11, & was thin all through my teenage years (about 135 & a size 5) The dr's said Id grow out of it, but never did. I also have had IR (hypoglycemia) since about 13/14. My mom also has IR, but not PCOS or anything wrong with her fertility. She's 51 now, 5'6" and 120lbs. When it came time for me to have children, it was difficult. We tried naturally for many cycles. It was actually a woman on a fertility board that brought PCOS to my attention, then I brought it up to my dr, got tested, and sure enough, I had it.

Ive heard through fertility boards there are 2 types of PCOS. The kind where women get regular periods, but have the actual cysts, and miscarry alot. The second kind is where women get irregular periods, can not see the cysts via ultrasound, and need fertility meds to get pregnant. I am the second type for sure.

For me my weight is a result of gaining with 3 babies in 5 years, and overeating. Id lose some weight after each child, but never all of it, and sure enough, Id get pregnant again, and add to the remaining weight.

That being said, since exercising, eating better and losing weight, Ive seen a HUGE difference in my PCOS symptoms (face is more clear, less oily, hair is thicker, periods are coming more often on their own but not perfect) Ive also noticed a BIG difference in my IR issues. I dont feel my blood sugar fall as hard, or as often, and Im less hungry.

I have come across this post throughout the years, b'ut I never posted. I felt like today I should at least say something. My heart goes out to all who struggle with IR. I am 33 years old and I consider myself lucky in that I discovered the truth about myself ten years ago with a competent bariatric physicican. I am only 5' 3 and have never been overweight or overfat in my life!!! I have had 2 babies, get pregnant easily and for the most part am leaner than most women. I suffer from insulin resistance. It all started when I was 23, i would at times struggle alot with ten pounds from week to week, would put weight on easily after eating very little food and was losing muscle mass. I didn't know I had a metabolic problem. I went to a trainer and sought help to build muscle and get control of this. He put me on a high carb diet which would bring my hidden insulin resistance to the frontline of a war. While on this diet, i stopped menustrating, hair stopped growing, was hungry all the time, had headaches, had terrible sugar cravings and would put on bodyfat so easily. My trainer was perplexed, the calorie rule just didn't seem to apply to me. Needless to say, I quit and saw a doctor. He gave me glucophage, armour thyroid, dhea, and advised me of a low carb diet. My period returned and I never had issues with it again. However, the IR is still there and there are times it deeply bothers me. For example, the one week I can't where my jeans that I could wear 5 days ago. I have my insulin levels checked every 6 months but for the most part I know when they creep up again. Sometimes it is like you get attacked out of nowhere!!!!!! I follow a low carb diet and I exercise for fun. I am currently 105 pounds with 18.5% bodyfat. It has been a nasty struggle and sometimes it really gets me down. Just to let you know, insulin resistance that is the result of poor diet and exercise is easy to treat!!! IR that is the result of a genetic abnormality and or gene is much harder to get a control of. This would be in cases like myself and many of those with pcos. But I have survived. I still hang onto hope everyday. I often wish only to be a normal person who doesn't have IR, who stays at a constant weight naturally--but I have to work very hard against a battle with my hormones.. Best wishes------:)

From my research into this, it seems that there are a lot of folks who think it could either be genetic or a birth defect, but the exact cause isn't known. I've read enough to believe that I didn't give PCOS to myself. However, I've got it, and it is my responsibility to take care of myself. Lower weight, eating healthy and exercise are things I CAN control, even though PCOS may mean it is harder to lose weight, etc. My doctor believes it to be a basic problem that won't get better even with weight loss and told me to expect to be on Metformin for life, unless they develop some other treatment/cure.

Here are some what I would consider to be credible links (medical sites or researchers):

This is a study where you and your family members can participate to help find out if there's a family link, and it also talks about the differences in symptoms: http://www.uchospitals.edu/specialties/pcos/pcos.html

http://mayoclinic.com/health/polycystic-ovary-syndrome/DS00423/DSECTION=causes

http://www.ohsu.edu/health/health-topics/getContentById.cfm?ContentTypeId=85&ContentId=P08334 says "The exact cause of PCOS is unclear. It is common for sisters or a mother and daughter to have PCOS, but a definite genetic link has not been found."

Twin study: http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/91/6/2100

This study is looking into both genes and the possibility that something happened in the womb: http://www.research.northwestern.edu/crs/grants/

http://www.scor.northwestern.edu/project2.html This is a gene mapping researcher. It's pretty technical.

This was written by someone who was a research subject: http://www.rps.psu.edu/may98/abnormal.html

This study involved monkeys and says it may be "due to excess androgen levels during critical developmental periods" and talks about the potential to test children for it and the potential to develop a process to prevent it.
http://www.primate.wisc.edu/wprc/PCOS_July_02.html

My entire family's fat, so it was no surprise that I was too. My granny lost about 65 pounds; my mother's fluctuated and I've stayed about the same.

Never had a period until I turned 15; then it was off and on: had one for 2 weeks, stopped, had another 2-weeker a week later, stopped, had one for a month, stopped for a week before getting another one and it stopped after about 6 months- completely. I must have had a ruptured cyst- who knows- but ended up in the emergency room one night thinking I had a ruptured appendix. Painful. Cramping. Couldn't stand up. My stepmom said that I needed to get to the ER as soon as possible, because she's a doctor and it might be a ruptured appendix.

To make a long story short, they didn't find anything until I turned 16 or so. Doctor said to not worry about it; PCOS and fertility wasn't a problem for my age group- no periods made high school and university life that much easier. Changed his mind when he did an ultrasound on me at 19 and put me on Provera, then BC. But no one told me to lose the weight.

My bloodwork is excellent: cholesterol is on the lower end of normal at 3.51 (range is 3.0 to 4.9), triglycerides is 0.69 (range of 0.3 to 1.9); whole blood (HbA1c) is 5.4% (excellent glycaemic control). Fasting glucose is 4.5 (range from 3.5 to 7.7).

However, my weight problems I know came from a combination of things: sugar-fuelled binges to feel good after fights with my family, high sugar/high carb diet (Westerners eat the equivalent of 2 cups of sugar a day on a traditional high carb diet! Now, I probably eat a total of 1/4 - 1/2 cup a day), going out with friends and family two or more times a week, university food (pizza or McDonald's was a good option for dinner a couple to three times a week). I gained my own weight, I did it to myself. I will freely admit that guilt... difficult as it has been.

Now that I need to lose it, it is really difficult; 1500 cals a day, 6-7 days of very intense aerobic activity a week (adds up to 15 hours a week) and it only comes off in 1/2 pound a week increments. I think the hormones have something to do with it.

First day on Metformin. I'm tired as. Ate 2 apples for morning tea and 2 handfuls of raisins to stay awake. Chemist said that it shouldn't lower my blood sugar, but I have a feeling it might have. I'm ready for a nap. On the plus side, no upset stomach or nausea. Zzzz..... :tired::tired::tired::tired:

well from my research the PCOS comes first-it is developed during puberty for most and according to the article there currenlty is no evidence that the syndrome is inherited..i didnt have irregular cycles until 19-i was 145-155 lbs and then all of a sudden i went up to 230 so quick..i went up four sizes in 1 WK..i visited a gyno who told me i was fine..eventually i found a good dr and am now being treated.

First day on Metformin. I'm tired as. Ate 2 apples for morning tea and 2 handfuls of raisins to stay awake. Chemist said that it shouldn't lower my blood sugar, but I have a feeling it might have. I'm ready for a nap. On the plus side, no upset stomach or nausea. Zzzz..... :tired::tired::tired::tired:

i have been on metformin since august and can tell you i havent had any side effects so hopefully the tiredness is the only thing that you will get :)

I am the oldest of 6 girls and 3rd to start my period which was NEVER normal.
At age 16 I weighed about 90-95 lbs.

At age seventeen my hair started thinning I weighed 115-120 lbs-my Dr at the time tested my thyroid functions which was normal and told me that I just don't ovulate like normal women do.

Between the ages of 18-23 I was thin and active and consistently complained to my Dr's about hair loss, seemingly non-existent menstral cycles, and depression - They tested my thyroid functions, told me to take birth control and antidepressants.

At age 23 I started to get chubby

Fast forward to last year (185 lbs) I had a DR finally decide to test testosterone and LSH/FSH levels and I was "diagnosed with PCOS" I was told to loose weight and everything would be fine.

I switched Doctors and was finally sent for a Pelvic CT which revealed massive amounts of poly-cysts on both ovaries-I just saw my endo-specialist the other day and was put on Metformin.

I do feel like I am being treated that this problem is because of weight and I just don't believe that it is...there have to be skinny women out there with this diagnosis....????

well from my research the PCOS comes first-it is developed during puberty for most and according to the article there currenlty is no evidence that the syndrome is inherited

According to what article?

I thought I quoted some fairly credible sources that indicated there IS evidence.

Yes, there are thin women with PCOS. Google thin and PCOS, and you'll find some.

Hi ya! ive been doing a lot of research on pcos cuz i was just diagnosed 2 months ago, i had gone to the doc 2 years ago but she told me i was just fat and had to lose weight... (i was 216) and i finally had the nerve to get checked out again 2 months ago and was diagnosed and i totaly agree that you do get treated for it cuz of weight.... which i totaly disagree with cuz i had lost a ton of weight (down to 160/165) and was never regular. i was also very late with gettin a period (14yrs old) and ive never been regular since then... but anywho!! i thank you all for the information that you all have, although i have to say it is very depressing to think that i wont be able to have kids without taking meds....

i need to do some more research but i went to a chiro who is also a holistic doc and he put me on these pills: cataplex A, cam-amo, cholacol II, and spanish black rice. and i was wondering if anyone knew anything about these, he said he put some other women on these and and were able to conceive without fertility meds.

id greatly appreciate some responses with this....

christine

I was a health weight when I was younger, but had irregular periods. So my point would be PCOS came first then the weight gain. My periods were always irregular and then over time as an adult I just gained more and more weight.

i'm the same as D Red. although at the time i considered myself overweight as a teenager, at 5'3" and 130 lbs, i was no such thing. but my periods have been irregular from day 1.

I had PCOS long before I gained weight. I was always a bit of a health nut, which helped me not get really heavy. But no one will ever convince me that gaining weight caused my PCOS. I had the high testosterone, annov cycles, fluffy tummy and facial hair when I was a size two and at a size 12. My weight never changed anything.
I am technically a "thin cyster". There are several other thin cysters in my family. My doctors said it was genetic.
Now my underweight younger sister is starting to show mild signs and symptoms.

I really think it can go either way. much of the time pcos will cause rapid weight gain. But there are those where I think the weight caused the pcos. Like the people who are really overweight and as soon as they lose the weight all symptoms disappear.

As for me, I think the PCOS comes first, and is aggrivated by weight gain. When I was in high school, without changing A THING, I was gaining 10lbs a year. Junk food and soda were not a regular thing, and I didn't overeat. So the only thing I can contribute to my weight gain is the PCOS. Now, if I were extremely active, like on a sports team, then I think that may have kept the PCOS at bay. But only exercising a few times per week I think allowed it flourish. If I were a normal girl without PCOS, I know my diet and moderate exercise would have kept me at a healthy weight.

PCOS definitely needs extreme forms of exercise, and diets that are on the lower-end of calories (like 1200-1400). It seems it takes extremes to get PCOS to budge, I'm finding :)

I did not have PCOS until I had one Deproprovera shot. I was fine. I started my period at 13, and it was every 28 days like clock-work.

Then later, the doctor offered me the shot in lieu of my BC pills. What girl wouldn't turn down not having a period and not being pregnant? This girl did... Now over 10 years later I am battling the unintentional absence of periods.... it's sad but true.

Back to the question. After having my Depo shot, I gained like 40 lbs. in 6 months. I decided to discontinue the Depo and got back on the pill. So for me the weight came before the PCOS. I was not diagnosed with PCOS until after the Depo and weight gain.

At what age did you get the shot? I was reasonably thin through most of college and didn't really notice period changes until about my mid 20s.

LadyKM- Your story is almost identical to mine. Was forced (almost) Depo by my OBGYN. Immediately after 2 weeks developed a nasty rash on my face. At that time, no one connected the two. Took the shot 2 more times before refusing to get another. Gained 35 lbs between the first and second shot. 40 between the 2nd and 3rd. 5 years later I am still battling my weight, fertility, and this weird rash that no one seems to be able to explain. THANK YOU for sharing your story about Depo and PCOS. My new doctors agree that it was the cause but don't have hard evidence in order to report it. I am being told, "Its just one of those things. We know it caused it. But, we can't really do anything about it."

I was 19 years old.

You're welcome HeatherMcG. Where is this rash of yours? What does it look like?

I was 18. My rash started as like a red raccoon mask around my eyes. Then it got flaky and horribly gross. As time went on it has spread, there isn't a part of body NOT affected it in one way or another. Either it is bright red and flaky or scar marks on my skin. I have tried steroids (makes it worse), light treatments, ointments, moisturizers, etc. Nothing. It comes and goes though it never is completely gone.

It has totally ruined the last 5 years of my life. :( I can't even go out in public without as much skin covered as possible without people staring.

I'm sorry to hear about the battle with your rash. Chin up, we can't focus on resolving the symptoms with our chins down. Stay positive. I'm talking to myself here too!