Low Carb Archive - A question about fat and calories

Hi guys!

I have a question for you knowledgeable women. The plan I am following is low-fat as well as low carb. In my book it says that I should choose low fat dairy products etc. because I'm trying to keep my calories under 900 4 days a week and under 1300 3 days a week, and fat has more calories per gram than carbs and lean protien.
So here's the thing I would love to use heavy cream in my coffee or 4% cottage cheese. I think it would add some real quality of life points to my day.

Would I be just crippling myself if I added it. Is there some mystery factor to this low carb eating that I am not getting?? I don't hit ketosis every single day just 2 days a week. I am enjoying my results, about 3.5 pounds a week and I'm rarely hungry and I feel very energetic. I don't want to screw this up but reading the shakes thread had my mouth watering with all the heavy cream and whole milk you guys who follow a lower carb diet get to use.

Can someone tell me where the fat that you eat every day goes??
Could I maybe just use heavy cream on my ON days when I'm hitting ketosis?

Any thoughts on this would be helpful.

I can only tell you that the fat I eat goes right to my big belly, I wish it would go on a few people I know but thats another story in itself :D :lol:

I don't see the cream in your coffee hurting you especially since your on low carb. Sorry I can't be of more help.

Leens :dizzy:

someone wiser than me is bound to come along later, but i don't see the harm in using little heavy cream in a cup or two of coffee. and some ladies dilute the cream with water, so that they don't need as much.

as for cottage cheese, i HATE the low fat stuff... the 4% tastes much better. again, i think the key is portion control.

and even 4% milkfat cottage cheese doesn't have many calories!!!

good lluck! i'll be interested in what others say

Thanks ladies. I appreciate you confirming what I was hoping for.
I think I'll have cream or half and half in my coffee on my On days. My Dr. already told me that if I'm going to veer off the diet I should do it in the fatty direction rather than the starchy direction.

And 4% is a whole lot better than fat free cottage cheese, I whole-heartedly agree.

why is the doc having you on 900 for 4 days at a time?

and in essence it is the insulin that will make your body store the fat more. ys fat will slow down the weight loss but not that mush. how do you count your cals? do you use a food counter or doyou guess?

Dr. Atkins says use heavy cream INSTEAD of milk which has a lot of carbs. I don't even check the fat/calories in it, I just use it! Sorry couldn't be more help!

Humm, I personally like the 2% stuff. I use soy milk for coffee of 1/2 and 1/2.

I am going to be the Rainer on the parade...I think 900 cals and 1300 cals is really low for a person of your weight. Not to be mean but it seams to me it boarders on starvation to the body particularly if you are exercising as well. I assume this is a Dr diet...but taking a look at very low calorie diets like optifast, (different from low carb I know but still low calorie comparison) in the long run the people that did that ended up fatter then when they started.

I am a WW and do believe in low carb, but even ww puts you into a much higher caloric bracket.

Just concern for a fellow chick and life long dieter....please forgive me if I have over stepped, I wish only success and ease and lifetime achievement.

-L

I have been keeping this big Tx mouth shut....but I've been thinking the same. Why in the world does your doc have you on such a low calorie plan?

I stayed at goal weight for a bit over six years when I started eating wrong (LF for the doc) and put on about ten pounds. I went to a nutritionist (at a friends suggestion due to my age) and he put me on HIS plan. Once I went off of his plan AND the phen-fen I gained 12 pounds in one month.

Please hon, don't misunderstand, I do not mean to suggest that this will happen to you, but could yu share a bit more about your plan?

Out of concern -

J

interesting thoughts ladies. now, let's talk about the starvation mode we all know too well. it looks as if sundrop's doc is trying to fool her body into NOT going into starvation mode. she gets nearly 50% more calories 3 days a week! proportionately, that's a big chunk!

just wondering... and sun drop... please excuse us talking adn speculating without benefit of real knowledge.

my adorable surgeon tells us that in order to break a plateau, we have to eat more calories for a couple of days, then get really strict, and push more water and more exercise. of course, all i did was eat a little more for a couple of days, then get strict, and i lost 5 pounds in a week...

I just knew that you'd have more info! :lol:

I can understand the on/off due to the starvation mode BUT what IS THE PLAN?

Sorry, but I've been to the nutrionist that helped send my body into chaos which I am still recovering from. I am only concerned, hon.

I don't mean to meddle. (Listen to some of these great chicks and you can't go wrong !!!)

J

Hey SunDrop!

Let me add a few thoughts to this discussion.

First, I guess you are following a book's diet plan, but we do want to know which book, or is it your MD who gave this plan to you?

Secondly, if you are watching for ketosis, the high fats in the cream and the cottage cheese, depending on the amount of total fats you consume, could fool you into thinking you are burning fat from your body, when in reality you may be burning the fats you are eating. Don't misunderstand: I am not suggesting you should not use the cream or 4% cottage cheese. Just be aware that if you take in lots of fats (I didn't see the shakes thread, but I have made some "to die for" key lime pie and cheesecakes which are lethal) you might show positive on the keto-sticks but it may not be accurate.

That said, I need to agree with those who suggested 900 calories may not be wise for you. Now (watch out, I tend to lecture so much you may fall to sleep out of boredome right here at your computer) let me explain some of the reason it may not be a good idea to decrease your calories too low.

The body cannot lose more than 1 or 2 pounds per week of adipose tissue (fat) on a diet. It simply is not a medical possibility (I have heard this from a few sources). And if you are losing more than this, you may be losing muscle tissue and may not be having enough bilding blocks to make goodies like antibodies, blood, neurotransmitters, and other essential substances which are constantly being replaced as some of them are used up and pass away (okay, so they dissolve and get disposed of some way or other - same difference). You may be depriving your body of enough food to keep your body healthy.

Also, you should be losing slowly for another reason: being able to stick with the food plan and being able later to keep the weight off. If you are depriving yourself too much, one day you may feel you have to eat more, and soon it may be too hard to stay on this diet and you may give up. I am not accusing you of being a failure or of not having will power. Losing weight should not be a matter of will power but of knowledge and persistence. And if you did reach your goal weight, you will gain it all back if you return to your previous eating habits.

That is why you need to eat sensibly, but not deprive yourself much. You need to start a new way of eating that you can continue for life.

The reason low carb is very helpful in weight loss is because you feel less hungry by eating fewer carbs and more protein and fats. Carbs produce insulin in our bodies, and insulin is the culprit that makes you run back to the fridge to find the ice cream or the piece of cake that the kids didn't want. Fats and protein do not produce very much insulin, and you therefore feel full (or not hungry) longer. This way you can eat fewer calories and not feel you are struggling every day. Therefore, you can really hurt your body by going too low in calories, and you can undermine your plans by feeling sorry for yourself while others are eating hamburgers and fries (oooo, now THAT is nasty food for sure!).

I know it is hard to believe your doc or the book is incorrect, but it is becoming known more and more by dietitians and obesity researchers that very low calorie diets are quite harmful. Finding a new way of eating that you can do for the rest of your life might give you a chance to be succesful in reaching and maintaining your goal weight.

Again, forgive me for meddling in your life as though I was a guru for weight loss. I am huge and have not found a way (yet) to lose. But my problems have to do with other medical problems that I need to overcome before I can shed my piggy attire.

This is just my very humble opinion. No great wisdom in my words, but I do read a bit about all of this and know there is an answer in the world for those of us who have the weight-loss goal as our best friend and constand companion. I, like all others here, am just trying to find a way to sanity and happiness.

And heavy cream is very close to happiness. Especially when cream, stevia, and cream cheese are added to some other ingredients, and it is poured into a pie pan.

So, SD, I hope you find your answer and success comes along soon to your world.

wow,
Well, I'm sort of formulating an answer for you. I don't know why my Dr. suggested this diet. It's called the Two-Day Diet. I got the book off amazon at his suggestion. He uses it for cardiac patients. My only health problem is that I developed hypertension during my first pregnancy, while I was still slim and it has hung about. I'm high normal, like 135/85.

I really wasn't aware that it was that extreme.
Just to clarify, Monday, Tuesday Thursday and Friday are ON days. I stick to a low calorie (under 900), low carb (under 70), low fat (less than 40% fat) sort of plan.

On Wednesday, Saturday and Sunday I eat about 1300 calories and aim for under 200 carbs. I also get 2 Cravers On OFF days or foods that are usually Off limits -Icecream French fries, candy bars etc.
So the benefits of this plan as I see it are that on OFF Days, I truly feel like I'm Off my diet even though I'm still losing weight. And since maintenance phase is learning to llive a life time of Off days, it's sort of practice. learning portion control and how to delay satisfaction a bit and then really enjoy every morsel of it.
I also get to (in fact it's recommended with lunch and dinner) have Pasta and Rice (brown and whole wheat)on my Off days and I would really miss having them absent from my life all together.

So that's my Plan I hope I haven't sounded deffensive. This is really my first try ever at weight loss. I am not a nutrition maven by any measure and I got to 275 pounds with my second child because i simply ate whatever looked good. So, this is like bootcamp re-learning what is good for me and the ammounts I should eat.

My question for you guys especially Giggles (Thank you!!!) is what damage could 900 calories a day do to my body in the long run?? I expect it will be October before I reach goal weight and slide into maintenance.

I am finishing up my first 6 weeks today and have lost 23 pounds. I try to do 5 hour long bouts of moderate exercise a week and chase my kids up and down the stairs all day. The plan is not striking me as restrictive, or leaving me hungry. I'm feeling the best I have in years. I have really only "cheated" a couple of times, in the beginning the OFF Days flipped me out a little, the freedome of those extra calories was a little heady and I'd end up snacking all day. But I seem to have the rhythm now.

I keep track at Fit-Day (started last week) www.fitday.com/webfit/publicjournals.html?owner=TwoPillow

Again, thank you to every one of you who replied to this. i'm having to do some rethinking and that's not a bad thing.

Also apologies for grammar and spelling in this post, I'm sure it's rife with mistakes.:^:

first off. giggles. it's nice to see you posting againl life has been quiet without you. well, not exactly quiet, but it's great to have you back.

and sun drop. frankly, i'm getting around 700 calories a day. it's the eating plan i must follow since i had the gastric bypass. and here's what they tell us: we MUST get in the protein, and precisely for the reasons giggles outlined. we MUST lose the fat, but we can't afford to lose the muscle, adn the only way we can hope to do that is through lots of protein and exercise.

so, all these superheavyweights are doing it. and we all use low-carb, relatively low calorie, and definitely low carb, protein shakes. check with your doc, since he's supervising you. and to tell you the truth, the fact that your doc seems to understand the starvation mode problem is a real plus.

oh. our protein goals: most of the folks who start off weighing under 300 or so are supposed to get 60-80 grams per day. i'm 'special' because i was 409 at the surgery at the end of january. i'm supposed to get 80-100 grams per day. and i'm usually in the lower 80s. sometimes higher. but almost never lower.

and it all seems to be working for you. and not just working, but working GREAT!!!! just watch out for muscle loss. maybe weight lifting is in order for you? check with the doc... but if you're chasing the little ones and picking them up, who needs more weightlifting!!!????

keep up the good work!!!

and please believe me. we're not yakking at you because we think you're wrong or because we're doing it differently or anything mean spirited like that. we're concerned for you, but also very curious. if it works for you, it might work for someone else, and that would be a very very happy thing since we all struggle with these same issues.

Well Ms. SunDrop,

You answered very well. In fact, you have piqued my curiosity about your diet book. I see why there are on/off days - as Jiff suggested, it fools the body into believing there is no need for going into "starvation mode" as we have often heard (for those of us who have lived the diet life for many years).

What I have heard about the starvation mode is this: if your body does not recieve enough calories to do all the work for the day, such as chasing kids up and down stairs ninety-gazillion times a day, it slows down metabolism so that you do not need as much energy as before to get things done. Then, when you finally increase calories it takes the body a while longer to figure out that it does not need to be in first gear. You [well, I should put my own name in there, actually] ... I am pouring in bread and Hershey bars and my body is conserving all the extra energy for the next time I have to go for a long time without enough food. Hense, dieters go on diets and then get back to their previous way of eating and they gain it all back ... AND MORE. It is a phrase often heard by people who have tried many diets.

As far as the long term problems with eating too few calories... I seem to have a problem with my memory and am not sure I can defend that statement. (Maybe I just did ... maybe you lose a few brain cell for every calorie you don't eat that you need....) ... (okay, I shouldn't do that... I kid too much and if you can't hear the sound of my voice or see my face, you might think I am being serious...)

What I have read about eating too few calories for the work needed to be done that day is that you can only pull so much fat and convert it to glucose when you make your body use fat for energy instead of the sugar of the foods you eat.

All carbs, ALL CARBOHYDRATES are changed into a little sugar molecule, called glucose, before it even can get through the cell walls to be used as energy (glucose runs all the processes in the cells; it is as though each molecule of glucose was a tiny battery).

So, if you eat bread, an apple, or a handfull or ten of Skittles, those foods are sent through the gut and special little guys, called digestive juices, disassemble the foods into pieces small enough to get through the cell walls of the gut and into the blood stream. Then the carbs enter the blood stream and head to the liver (the boss) for directions. The liver sends some out to the brain, some to the arms, and some to the heart, and so on. The ones that are not glucose, but are other sugars from the foods (for instance, most fruits have fructose for their sugar) have to go into the liver's day surgery office to get changed into a glucose molecule. After this happens, they are also ready to go to work.

If you eat few calories, or few carbs, the body has to find glucose somewhere. It can pull some out of a warehouse in the back of the liver, but there isn't many of those temp glucose workers there. So we are thinking the liver will send messengers to the globby hips or abs and asks for fat cells to give up some of their fat, 'cause the liver said so. But the liver has only so many messengers, and they aren't very fast workers. The liver looks around and says "We gotta have more glucose NOW!" and he tells the protein molecules and the fat molecules that we just adopted (ate) they have to stop doing what they were doing and rush to the head as glucose. The brain cannot live without lots of those batteries. (In plain talk, our bodies will pull fat, carb, or protein and convert any of them to glucose since glucose is vital for life - no glucose and we go into chapter 7 bankruptcy - we stop being.)

So, if you eat too few calories and the body needs energy and you are not able to pull enough fat for energy needs, you end up not supplying the heart, brain, kidneys, muscles, pancreas, and lots of other stuff with the needed protein, carbs, and fats. Our bodies need all of those products to replace all the parts that are needing repair or replacement.

Now, .... what was the question? Oh, yes, how does it cause long term damage to eat too few calories? It isn't something you can tell right away, and I guess no one has done research to prove anything, but I suspect some of the problems us older people have might be partially caused by or at least aided by the lack of the right building blocks for our bodies' parts.

Aren't you sorry you asked? I do go on past infinity in my explanations. I don't really know how many calories you should be eating to prevent the story above from happening in you. But 900 is quite low for someone with kids and who exercises.

One or two pounds is a good loss, nice and slow loss so that you have pleanty of energy and pleanty of good building block material to be made and for you to stay healthy, while pulling some of those chubby fat guys out of the hips, tummy, legs, arms, lips or any of those parts that could use some slimming, and making those chubbies into batteries.

Two books I have read about low carbing (and you thought carb was a noun!) mention ways to determine if you are losing too much or too little and give instructions about how to eat to correct that problem. So, I guess it is considered a problem to lose too much per week. What a bummer!

Okay, wake up everyone. Lecture is over.

Oh, Jiffy! I wrote this dissertation for so long I didn't see you come and go again. Nice to see words from your brain too. My, you certainly have tact down to a science. Very nicely stated, your last comments.

You are so good at explaining things giggles it is so good you are here. I just can not fantom all that typing to get that all said. You are 100% correct as usual. We need to talk to Ruth and see if we can get a forum under the low carb just for these informatnion posts like this one. and have her move it there and save all this wonderful info so others do not miss it. I know that many times we repeat this info and this would save info from being missed.

I was thinking the varied cal intake was due to the trying to kieep out of the starvation mode like you said, but i to am very concerned about what and how you are eating.

In PP book they talk about how the insulin will stimulate the BP to raise, and well if you are eating up to 200 carbs on off days and depending onthe foods that you eat i can not see how much this is doing you much good for the bp I am sure that you are going to see some results but i think you really need to decrease your carbs. NOT the cals though. I do not want to be presumtious but There are some concernes here for that.

I did want to add to giggles that if you do not eat enough calories the body will break down protein as it can make glucose out of protein in a process called gluconeogenisis, but hrer is the catch it will ONLY turn to glucose only the ammount the body needs to survive. that is why it is so important if you cut your calories that your body takes in enough protien so as it does not have to resort to burning your muscles. so also with that as giggles said the body can only burn 2 - 2 1/2 lbs of fat a week as there is only so much the body can use the fat for, it is not an endless suply of energy it will only fuel certain things.

so here is the scoup from the best of my knowledge.

Your body needs energy to burn so you eat your foods.... the limited carbs turn to glucose...and is used for fuel so then what
is left??? well the body will go for the protein for energy it will burn what you eat to glucose (If you over eat the protein it will not turn to fat as it is too difficult to do that, but easier to rid your body of the excess through the body) if you have not eaten enough for the body it will turn to the muscles and breakthem down to use. As there is limited uses for the fat energy the body will only burn a small amount of fat a week.

that is why we are so conderned over the caloric levels your doc has you on. your body will turn to your muscles when you get down that low. you should only go down to just under well let me figure this out.... 3500 cals per pound...... 7000 cals for 2 that means that 8750 cals a week below your weekly caloric level. there are formulas to figure your levels.

check back here for info and where to get some links when you are ready. OK?

Hi I am sure that you will ( or someone) have the answer to my question.

Since starting this WOE (day 7 today) I have been basically guessing what to eat each day. I have been sensible and added a little fruit and lots of veggies and salads and so far I have lost 5lbs, which is very pleasing. My aim (I'm not sure if I posted this here) is to lose a fair amount of weight for my holiday which is in a little under two weeks, but I wish to continue this way of life as it suits me.

When I return from my holls, (I will, obviously bring a bit back with me which I then intend to lose again) I would like to start checking on the amounts of carbs I eat every day to enable me to have a sensible weight loss per week.

Now what is puzzling me is, at what level do I start. I am sure someone here with all this knowledge can suggest a sensible starting amount.

I am approx 12 stone and 5'2" and need to lose around 2 stone.

Can also someone tell me which foods are the best for fibre. I would like to use most of my carbs on fruit, veg and salad, I also would like to have a little rice and pasta now and then. Do I still have unlimited fats or do I need to cut those back?

Such a lot of questions!!

Jan

PS I bouth the book Protein Power but haven't had chance to read it yet, perhaps the answers will be in there?

Jano,

I wish it was as simple as 'how many carbs can I eat in a day?' Sorry, luv, it is more complicated. And YES, Protein Power does give some answers.

There are now probably dozens of people who have written a book on their plan for low carb dieting. And each one is quite different from the next. They are all saying bascially the same thing, but it can be done in many different ways. For anyone who has access to a library or book store which carries a few of these books, you can read as many of them as you can tolerate, and chose which one suits you best.

Protein Power does have an answer, but plan to curl up in your bed for a long weekend to get it read.

Some LC books forbid most fruits, others balance the diet with small amounts of fruits, lots of vegetables, and a nice portion of protein. Most ban potatoes, white bread, corn, beets, and anything made with sugar. If you search online for "glycemic index" you should find a couple of sites that let you know which carbs are best to eat, and which not. Anything with a high glycemic number is basically bad news for us.

It means the sugar in that food hits the blood and makes our bodies squirt out some insulin to help those sugar molecules get into the cells. But some of the carbs make our blood sugar level rise too high, and the insulin works too well, and forces sugar into the cells, and leaves us with a blood sugar level that is too low. Low blood sugar is what makes us hungry and makes us unable to keep our heads out of the ice box (refrigerator) looking for some brownies, cake, or something.

Pasta, by the way, is generally not allowed except for some who say whole wheat pasta, a small serving of it, is okay once in a while.

Then there is the deal about weight loss. At first there is a change in burning the sugar we eat for energy to pulling fats out of our bodies to burn as fuel. During the change we lose a large bit of water, and so we are so excited about how much weight we lost. (By the way, over here in the US we don't quite know how much a stone weighs!) Then we get into the next phase, and it really slows down. I won't get into what follows next. But be prepared to slow down your weight loss. In fact, you should not lose more then one or two pounds (is that the same as three pebbles?) each week. You should not lose more than that because it would not be body fat being lost, but possibly muscle tissue or something else being sacrificed.

Well, as I said Jano, it is all a bit more complicated than just knowing how many carbs to eat.

So, on holliday, maybe you will have a bit of extra time to read?

Good luck, and please come back here and let us know how it is going. And always feel free to ask questions. There are some smart and very supportive people here who love newbies.

I hope you all aren't finished with this thread. I'd like to add some of my own thoughts.

I've been on this program for almost a year. I lost about 50 pounds in a little over 2 months. I sincerely believe the following:

This is not a DIET!!! It is a way of life.

In the beginning of the program, you should keep your carb count at 20 grams a day. Your calorie count should be no less than 1500 a day.

Carbs should be gotten from vegetables, protein, and dairy products.

I ABSOLUTELY do not believe that sugar, pasta, rice, bread, flour, etc are good for you...Think of it...were those items available in the stone age? (By the way, potatoes are really high in carbs)Didn't those people live off of meat and vegetables? They didn't have all this refined crap (sorry) that is available these days. And...what of all the preservatives that are used to keep them available for longer periods of time...do you really want them in your body?

If you eat too many carbohydrates, they end up being stored in the body as FAT. Obviously, the same goes for too many calories (I actually have the nerve to say that I miss having a 4000 calorie day once in a while, but my body thanks me for not doing so.).

My husband went on this program because he had high blood pressure and diabetes. As long as he stays with this program, his counts are within normal limits. I know when he cheats/goes off the program. His face turns purple from his high blood pressure, and/or he can't stay awake because of the sugar high and lows. There is definitely something to be said about staying and maintaining on this program.

There are no high carb items to be found in my house. I keep fresh vegetables (including many salad vegetables, meat, cheese, fish, coffee, tea, and whipping cream (for the coffee) stocked in my kitchen .

On occasion, I will buy a small box of crackers for "Happy Hour" snacks. More often than not, celery and/or lettuce is used (for dipping in the tuna, crab, or clam dip that I make).

This program has been a lifesaver for me in more ways than one. I can't stress enough how important it is to me after having struggled with my weight for so long. It's easy to follow a "diet", but what happens when you have reached your goal? You don't need to be on a diet any more and you think you can resume eating the way you did before having gained all that weight. This is a forever program for me. Sure, I am human and will have the occasional pasta night and the occasional tiramisu, but for the most part, I will stick with my salads, veggies and meat.

I feel better than I have ever felt in my life, and I don't have those sugar high and lows. I definitely have MUCH MORE energy (now, if I could only find an outlet for it!!!).

I"m sorry to ramble on. I fervently believe that this is the best program I have ever found in my life, and beliee me, I've done the majority of those out there. I wish I had my scanner so that I could (also) show before and after pics of myself.

Whatever any of you decide for a program, make it a life changing program...don't call it a diet. And remember...if you cheat on your program, you are only cheating yourself out of looking and feeling as good as you possibly can.

My best to and for you all,

Lee

Remember...you are the daughter of the heavenly King. That makes you a princess. Look like one, carry yourself like one, feel like one.

For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Hey Lee ~ Nice to see you! It's been a while BUT you did share some pics with me and you've done terrific!

Some great points made in your post and I totally agree! We understand how we came to this point and must definately have the opinion that we cannot return to our "old" ways if we are to maintain our lost weight and healthier lifestyle.

J

Ok here's my problem with the paleolithic diet. And how healthy humans were in our pre-history. Well, first of all people were dying awfully early and signs of malnutrition are rampant in the remains that we have been able to examine from those times. If we are trying to argue that our bodies did not evolve to deal with large ammounts of refined sugars and the huge levels of sodium found in everthing though, I am totally in agreement. I think a balance needs to be struck. I cannot swear off all white flour and white sugar for my entire family. My mom did that with me as a kid and I gorged on it as soon as I got out from under her watchful eye, trading my whole lunch for one small forbidden candy bar. The reality of the world we live in is that we are one over fed country in a world without enough to eat we need to eat smarter and teach our children the same.

My aim is to educate myself and my kids on what sugar and carbs are actually doing to your body. I am sure that carbohydrates are necessary to maintain organ function, I think the more fibrous those carbs are the better. But, I am not at all convinced that my body or anyone elses really cares whether I'm eating x- ammount of brown rice or x ammount of twinkies. It has an insulin reaction based on how many grams of sugar it is able to pull from the food. That's it. Whether we are cavemen pigging out on berries when they are in season or chewing on stalks of grass, our bodies did evolve to deal with carbohydrates. That the westernized diet is now higher in carbs is inarguable. We need to learn discipline. It's simply too much of a good thing.
I don't think that eliminting carbs all together or following a paleolithic diet will result in anything but gout and the same malnutrition that plagued our pre-history.

Now on to my diet. I've thought about this thread all weekend. I think I see two problems, 1- is that my diet makes the assumption that super low-carb diets are dangerous, thus it's not a way of eating that i'm going for but a way to take advantage of low carb weight loss for a short time, and that may be inherently foolish. Also it can't sit well with you all who see this as a life-time commitment. Like please let me exploit your diet and then tell you why it's so harmful. Frankly that aspect sucks.
2- I'm not buying that low calorie diets over the short run will begin to eat my organs. I read a bunch about this and 900-1300 calories a day with multi-vitamins in an obese but healthy person is not going to be harmful if followed for a few months. I have plenty of fat stores to use up. The stumbling block seems to be my body hitting starvation mode. But the rhythm of higher calorie days and moderate exercise has thus far kept that from happening.

So- now the bad news- I think that once I get to 150 pounds that it is going to be nearly impossible to maintain. I read my book's maintenance section carefully and I'm just not buying it, you do more vigorous exercise for shorter periods and gradually add 100 calories a day per week untill you start to gain weight back.
Something tells me that this is just not going to work. I think I'm teaching my metabolism that we can get by with very little.

I am going to increase my calories during my ON days by adding more protien and fat I'm thinking to 1100 calories and OFF days up to 1500. It may slow my loss and I was so enjoying the 4 pounds or so lost a week. But I would rather have my body much closer to a maintainable metabolism at the end of this.

As far as the carbs being too high... I don't know about this. but from what I read your body uses 1100 calories of glycogen from the liver each day, that would be your stored carbs, after that it looks to protien and then to fat. My book says that the exercise 5 hours a week keeps the body from dipping into protein stores like muscles and organs, and seems to favor burning fat stores.

I think as I lose more weight I may need to reduce my carbs a bit but for right now it feels right and I really like having some liberty with my Days Off to eat "normal" foods in smaller portions.

So, those are my conclusions. I think every body is different and mine is doing pretty well with this. though I'm losing some hair. what's that about??
My Dr. warned me that it happens with low-carb diets initially sometimes.

I totally respect you ladies who are getting by on much less than I. I think there is room for all sorts here.

With respect,
SunDrop

Sun Drop - Let me first say that I in no way meant to offend you or belittle your plan. I sincerely did have a bad experience from a nutritionist and I suppose I listened just because he was a doctor and I thought he knew what he was doing. It's now been about four years and my body is still reeling from what "his" way did to my metabolism. My questions/ attitude's were from concern, not intended to be critical.

From your post you obviously have done much studying and thinking about not only your plan but what you understand is realistic for a lifetime woe. You know the old saying "fear of the unknown?" Perhaps that's where some of our comments came out. We've become familiar with some of the more known LC plans, Atkins, Hellers, Protein Power, etc.. Your plan did seem extreme and in not being familiar perhaps some of our comments came out more critical than inquisitive.

Again, I apologize and hope I've not offended! We're a pretty loving group here and I couldn't stand the thought to intentionally hurt anyone.

J

MamaJ, (and others kind enough to respond)
You did not offend me in any way. I thank God that this forum is here because there is just no one IRL to discuss all this stuff with. I'm not a band wagon type person, I'm very progressive/alternative. I do crazy stuff like refuse vaccinations for my kids and vote for Nader because I research and research everything, and doctors, allopathic medicine in general freaks me out. I won't take their "word for it" on anything. This diet, this book, was a huge leap of faith and scared me to no end. That first time I hit ketosis and woke up all night peeing I felt really panicky and worried even though I had read all about it. Coming here and being able to read about real people's experience and success with this way of eating helped me a great deal.
I wish everyone health and happiness. I see the beauty in you all.

I just ask that I am given the same chance to learn from my mistakes and sucesses as you all have. And I'll continue to share them with you as long as I am welcome to.

with respect,
SunDrop

Sundrop,
That was very well thought out and I must say I like the soul searching you have done. I was the one that brought up the calorie count. I do think that 1100, and 1500 calories a day is a much better choice. Yes you will lose more slowly, but 2 lbs a week is very safe and when you get to the maintenance you will have done it long enough to know what will work for you.

I do agree on the carb thing (please no one shoot me) i do think all calories are created equal and we have to learn to ballance and make choice. Low carb works if you stick to it. I think that that is true for all plans.

I too disagree that for maintenance you will have to increase your activity level. We have to pick a WOL that will work long term. WW offers a fairly good maintenance that you may wish to look at. I know you are not on that but the principle will be the same.

I too wish to say no offence. We are a nice supportive group here that TRUELY we are looking out for you and your health.

Be well,
-L

Someone told me that not enough fat in your diet causes hair loss. It's pretty hard to believe that a low carb diet could be too low in fat!:) That's my only advice, unless you have PCOS. That causes hair loss too!