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ennay
12-30-2008, 10:57 AM
I swear to god if one more person gives people struggling with their weight pithy little one line sayings like

"eat less move more" and my current rant starter

"eat food, not too much, mostly plants"

I am going to blow a gasket.

I love how people who have never struggled have weight loss and weight maintenance all figured out. I am not disrespecting the Pollan book - I think he has a lot of good to say. Just people who think that anyone who struggles with their weight just needs to hear those specific 7 words over and over and over and over.


rockinrobin
12-30-2008, 11:09 AM
Haha. Those words a little too oversimplified ya think?

Well, we all know that it is simple. Simple, yet so very difficult. Grrrr.

JulieJ08
12-30-2008, 11:09 AM
I find it helpful to think those particular seven words over and over ;)

But I do know what you mean. It's one thing when a concept is helping you and you're working it, it's another when someone else is ignoring the complexities you face, or trying to make THEIR solution YOUR solution.


SisuInWI
12-30-2008, 11:22 AM
ennay - I have to agree. We all know why we have a weight problem, we've been dealing with it, for some of us, a very long time. Those that talk about being 'fat' when they gain 5 pounds, I find especially irritating. All the helpful ideas and encouragement that we receive from each other here, is what we need and what will help. By the way, what are the 7 words?

rockinrobin
12-30-2008, 11:23 AM
By the way, what are the 7 words?

"eat food, not too much, mostly plants"

RN BSN 2009
12-30-2008, 11:23 AM
If it really were that easy, we wouldnt have alarming obesity rates!

JulieJ08
12-30-2008, 11:29 AM
Easy and simple aren't the same thing.

I find a lot of concepts that break something down to a simple form are irritating at first. But at some point, I find I'm more ready for it to be that simple. In the end, the simplicity really speaks to you.

But if you're not ready, you're not ready. You have to go with what works for you right now. It eventually changes itself, but you can't force it.

bargoo
12-30-2008, 11:32 AM
I don't know the book you refer too, but "eat less move more" is true, if you do these two things you will lose weight.

ennay
12-30-2008, 11:52 AM
bargoo - I am not saying it is WRONG, just that it ignores the complexity of most peoples problems.

And when said in response to someone who is asking for HELP it very condescending.

Cie
12-30-2008, 11:56 AM
I don't know the book you refer too, but "eat less move more" is true, if you do these two things you will lose weight.

Keeping in mind that we are all different, my story agrees with "eat less, move more" saying. I started losing steadily in August when I followed Atkins'72 and did portion control plus upped my activity level. My original loss of 85 pounds in 2003 began with a daily walk of 10k rain or shine.

I also know that those sayings can irritate the heck out of someone in the midst of the struggle. I remember running to catch the bus at 240 and the slim, young bus driver saying "you need to move more". Throwing gas on the fire is what it is because I know the weight gain had complex reasons behind it.
:newyear:

Schumeany
12-30-2008, 12:13 PM
"Eat less, move more" was my mantra all the way down to goal so, for me, it is not over-simplified. It is simply truth, and sometimes truth is simple.

I do not think it matters what short pithy sentence a thin person directs at a heavier person -- often, no matter what they say (Especially if they have never had a weight problem...), it feels like he or she is being condescending. Sometimes it is true and sometimes it isn't, but whenever it happens, it points out to the overweight person that this THIN person thinks he or she is FAT.

It is an uncomfortable, unpleasant feeling, and then when the thinner person follows it up with some little "saying", it seems to add insult to injury. But the truth is that, for most people, unless there is a thyroid problem, a disability or some other medical condition, BOTH those phrases are absolutely accurate. I think they are annoying because they are so simple...but also the truth.

kittycat40
12-30-2008, 12:21 PM
Recently a friend asked me how I lost my weight-- I said "less in, more out" and then immediately after seeing her, called her cell to apologize for being so glib.

And acknowledged how difficult managing weight is.

When I saw her again, a few weeks ago, she repeated my lines and said-- that about sums it up, huh? (She has put on many pounds d/t an injury and steroid treatment) Then she called ME to tell me the next time she went to the cupboard, she thought of me and shut the door.

We ALL go thru it.

:hugs:

rockinrobin
12-30-2008, 12:21 PM
Easy and simple aren't the same thing.

100% ture.

But no one ever said it was going to beeasy. Simple yes. Easy no.

One of my favorite quotes:

"If we would just recognize that life is hard, things would be much easier".

rockinrobin
12-30-2008, 12:23 PM
Recently a friend asked me how I lost my weight-- I said "less in, more out" and then immediately after seeing her, called her cell to apologize for being so glib.

And acknowledged how difficult managing weight is.

When I saw her again, a few weeks ago, she repeated my lines and said-- that about sums it up, huh? (She has put on many pounds d/t an injury and steroid treatment) Then she called ME to tell me the next time she went to the cupboard, she thought of me and shut the door.

:

We have no way of knowing which phrase or comment is going to spur someone on to make a change in their lives or what will be someone's "lightbulb" moment.

Cie
12-30-2008, 12:26 PM
"Eat less, move more" was my mantra all the way down to goal so, for me, it is not over-simplified. It is simply truth, and sometimes truth is simple.

I do not think it matters what short pithy sentence a thin person directs at a heavier person -- often, no matter what they say (Especially if they have never had a weight problem...), it feels like they are being condescending. Sometimes it is true and sometimes it isn't, but whenever it happens, it points out to the overweight person that this THIN person thinks he or she is FAT.

It is an uncomfortable, unpleasant feeling, and then when the thinner person follows it up with some little "saying", it seems to add insult to injury. But the truth is that, for most people, unless there is a thyroid problem, a disability or some other medical condition, BOTH those phrases are absolutely accurate. I think they are annoying because they are so simple...but also the truth.

I agree it is the truth. However, there is so much pain in the world and none of us knows what the next guy is dealing with so in mindfulness meditation we are taught to watch our speech and another mantra is to treat all sentient beings with kindness. We know that being hit in the face with reality has rarely changed people's habits. The pithy sayings used did not start my journey. For me it was fear I would die before seeing my niece (whom I raised) get married and have kids. With my goal being reached I am hopeful now of seeing my grand niece/nephew who is coming in 2009!

Blessings!

PhotoChick
12-30-2008, 12:32 PM
I tend to agree with Schumeany here (shocker, I know! :lol:).

I think overall we're so messed up about food - as a culture and as a society and as individuals - that anything and everything can be seen as offensive or upsetting. Or pithy. Or whatever.

I read something the other day that made me laugh in it's sheer truthfulness - something about how Americans were the most researched, studied, and informed about food and yet we enjoy it the least.

.

JayEll
12-30-2008, 12:36 PM
"If we would just recognize that life is hard, things would be much easier".

Too many people are trapped in what I call joyless striving.

Life does not have to be hard. Weight loss does not have to be hard. I'm not fond of the saying that ends with "choose your hard"--because if we do not have joy along the path, let's just cash in now!

Weight loss DOES take effort. Maintenance once one has lost weight DOES take effort. It's not simple, although those basic rules hold.

However--that said--when I'm up several pounds, those saying really irritate me, too! heh...

Be joyful in what you choose to do. Rejoice in the fact that you can breathe, eat, see the sky, walk, exercise, care for others, and be cared for in return. Be happy that you still have a choice and the ability to change things. These moments are precious, always.

OK, enough preaching here... :blah:
Jay

rockinrobin
12-30-2008, 12:43 PM
Jay, I am grateful that I wake up every morning and that I can breathe, and that I am lucky enough to be able to have money to buy the foods that I do. And on and on.

But nevertheless, I still believe that this weight loss/maintenance stuff is HARD. Simple, yet HARD.

rockinrobin
12-30-2008, 12:53 PM
Thought of another quote Jay, you may prefer it better. May not. :dunno:

"When I hear someone sigh that Life is hard, I am always tempted to ask them - Compared to what?"

4star
12-30-2008, 12:53 PM
"eat food, not too much, mostly plants"

It is a pretty simple concept except most unhealthy eaters are gonna put butter on those plants. :D Learning to make the right changes and apply them to creating new habits, that's where the struggle lies....

ennay
12-30-2008, 01:00 PM
I guess my problem with it...and this actually wasnt directed at me, is when people say it in a way like they are saying something earthshaking.

Or in this particular case it was someone saying "DONT COUNT CALORIES just eat food, not too much, mostly plants"

When I get irked is when it is combined with "you dont need to (count calories, measure food, join weight watchers, weigh food, eat salad, dont eat krispy kreme, join a gym, run) JUST (do my little pithy mantra)

That is my real rant...funny sometimes you dont know what ticks you off at first. DONT count calories, just eat less. DONT give up your daily icecream, just eat less. DONT run just move more. DONT join a gym just move more

Which to me comes across as "if you need to do all that to lose weight you must have serious issues"

Yeah. I do.

mandalinn82
12-30-2008, 01:14 PM
Without knowing what you asked for, its hard to know what a better response would be.

I mean, people ask me all the time how to lose weight. All. The. Time. And while I try to give a little more information than that, it really is a -simple- thing. I always throw on "simple doesn't mean easy", etc, but if someone asks me how I lost my weight, my response is generally going to be something like "eat less, mostly whole foods, move more, lift weights". Which is SIMPLE, but really, really hard to do a lot of the time. I don't ever JUST say those 9 words, but that is what any advice I will give boils down to.

Then again, if someone came to me and said "I'm really struggling with staying on plan" or "I'm having a hard time managing emotional eating", my response would never in a million years be "Well, just eat less and move more!" So I think a lot of it is context, and without knowing the conversation that sparked the original post, it is hard to say whether it is condescending or not.

On the debate on whether or not this is "hard", I think maintaining weight IS hard, or at least, harder than NOT maintaining weight, for me. But the REST of my life outside of my weight is so much easier that I'm willing to sacrifice that amount of effort...in the end, life ends up easier...the only parts that are HARDER are the eating/exercising parts.

Schumeany
12-30-2008, 01:26 PM
Sign my name to Mandalinn's post. :)

rockinrobin
12-30-2008, 02:48 PM
But the REST of my life outside of my weight is so much easier that I'm willing to sacrifice that amount of effort...in the end, life ends up easier...the only parts that are HARDER are the eating/exercising parts.

I don't want to scare anyone, so I just want to mention this point the Amanda speaks about. The so-called sacrifices, not even sure if I would call it that, bring about so many fabulous results that it is more then a pleasure to maintain weight loss. There is not one single aspect of my life that has not been improved by my weight loss and now maintenance. So, yes, life is more joyful and easier.

At this point, all the things that I do to keep me at this weight are ingrained in me. I know what to do, so that is EASY.

But hey, it WOULD be easier and less time consuming to not have to shop constantly, and chop and dice and prepare and cook and clean up and on and on. It would be easier (& cheaper) to walk into Mcdonald's and get my meals there. It would be easier for me to not have to pack snacks with me wherever I go and just grab a donut or a muffin or something similar. Be a heckuva lot easier and again, less time consuming if I didn't have to exercise.

But hey, it would be easier if I didn't have to work to get money and I could, I don't know - steal it? But of course stealing money is not an option. Certainly not a good one. On top of it being wrong on so many levels, it's too darn risky. And not too far down the road, it would NOT be a very satisfying life and would actually wind up making life HARDER (umm, think prison).

Same thing with my eating and exericse. I could choose the easier path. But not very far down the road, it would NOT be a very satisfying life and would actually wind up making life HARDER (think disease, depression, low self-esteem, etc..)

Lori Bell
12-30-2008, 03:26 PM
I feel bad now. I am asked a lot how I've lost over 130 pounds. The basic simplified version is "Eat less, move more". It's so easy, even a cave man can do it...<grin>. Most heavy people *really* don't want to hear more than that. You can sence their uneasiness almost immediately. Being a fat person, I would ask people how they lost weight in hopes of a new miracle cure. Once I found out it was what I already knew how to do, I'd bow out of the conversation as quickly as possible. I think most thin people ask because they feel obligated and to explain away their staring! Of course there are always the "know it alls" that need to put in their 2 cents. When that happens I say something like..."Thank you for the advice, when I get stuck in a rut, I'll give you a call" ...lol.

My favorite is when someone asks me how I lost weight in a group setting, and then someone else answers for me...Gurr, that is irritating.

ennay
12-30-2008, 03:48 PM
Without knowing what you asked for, its hard to know what a better response would be.

That's why I modified my rant. It's about when someone does say "I've been doing Calorie counting" for example and the response is "Dont calorie count, just eat less"

How is that helpful? Dont do a specific method of eating less, just do this nebulous method.

My specific rant is the belittling of the current effort, but not really providing anything concrete to go on. I mean what is the first thing we do here if someone says "I've been eating pretty good and not that much but I cant lose weight" We say "quantify...how much are you REALLY eating"

kaplods
12-30-2008, 03:50 PM
I don't mind honest, unbiased opinions, whether I agree with them or not. I love talking about weight loss and exercise with people who are really open and honest about the topic, all aspects of it, including how it can simultaneously horrendously difficult and complicated, and yet stupifyingly simple and occasionally even easy. I don't expect anyone (especially if they haven't experienced weight loss struggles themselves) to understand that their "advice" may not be new or profound to me.

What I do hate, is when the advice (whether I agree with it or not, either in theory or in practice) is delivered with condescencion or scorn. Now, I won't discount the possibility that I may occasionally interpret such emotions when they weren't intended, but I'm generally not paranoid or easily offended. In fact, I'm usually pretty unflappable, and am more likely to take such advice at face value when an insult was actually intended. But I've found that for the folks who really were trying to insult me, refusing to be insulted drives them nuts (so it can be the best "revenge").

I've gotten some good and true advice, and some bad and completely ridiculous advice that was well intended, but delivered poorly. That doesn't bother me, in the least. However whether the advice is true/good or complete B.S., when it is intended as a "how could you be so stupid as to not know that".... well I don't have much patience for it.

When I've received THAT kind of advice, frankly it has gone in one ear and out the other, and I avoid the subject with that person in the future. However, if someone is trying to be truly helpful, even if they give (and firmly believe) advice that is either oversimplified or even utter garbage (you have to eat grapefruit three times a day, or drink a glass of vinegar before each meal....) I don't mind and in fact like talking about the subject. In fact, I wish that weight loss, health, and fitness sometimes weren't such a taboo subject, as I've had some of my best conversations with perfect strangers, but it's funny how those conversations often started - with one or both of us, testing the waters to make sure the person isn't going to be offended. Heck, I think sometimes it would be more socially acceptable to talk about extreme fetish porn than weight loss.

PhotoChick
12-30-2008, 03:58 PM
How is that helpful? Dont do a specific method of eating less, just do this nebulous method. Yeah. I'm with you on that.

It's funny ... two of the women in the office across the hall were talking about joining WW yesterday and they hollered across the way and asked if I'd come offer my opinion. One of them has worked there for years and knew me back before I lost weight. One of them has only known me for about a year. The conversation went a lot like this:

#1: Would you join WW for this?
Me: I know a lot of people who have joined and love it. I've done it in the past and it just isn't my thing.
#2: Well what did you do to lose all your weight?
Me: Counted calories, ate really fresh un-processed food as much as possible, and made sure to go to the gym regularly.
#2: I KNEW you were going to say that. I can't do that.
#1: Why not?
#2: I can't eat that "healthy" stuff. That brown rice stuff and vegetables and .. you're gonna tell me I have to exercise right?
Me: Well, yeah. (smiling)
#1: I just want to join someplace and have them do it for me. PC if you were going to join somewhere, where would you join.
Me: Well ... erm ... I wouldn't. I don't do so well with joining things. If they tell me I can't have something, it makes me want it. It's easier for me to count my own calories.
#2: That's just too hard.
#1: Yeah. I think I'm going to join WW.

Now how much you wanna bet that in Feb they're going to come back and say WW doesn't work for them?

But I'm really reluctant to go into more detail than that because I know the response I'm going to be met with across the board is "I can't do that" (which really means I *won't* do that). That and Woman #2 is always trying some weird new fad. Now she wants to cut out all dairy ... because dairy is making her fat. Last year it was becoming veggie (except for some chicken and some fish and well a hamburger every once in a while).

Oy. :rolleyes:

.

Schumeany
12-30-2008, 04:36 PM
PC, just before Christmas I had that EXACT same conversation with one of the checkers at my grocery store...down to the thing where I said I didn't like to join things because I am not big on other people telling me what to do or what I can eat...I prefer being responsible for my own decisions...but that I did know people who joined WW and it worked great for them. It just wasn't my thing.

Then, however, she went on to say that all that weight melting off of me was just incredible. That it wasn't fair I had lost so fast and that just counting my calories and getting some exercise had worked for me. She told me she has tried every fast, cleanse and new diet there is, and she always gains it back or doesn't lose an ounce. Hello? It did not melt off of me...I burned every one of those little *******s. :) And five months is a good pace, but it is not "so fast". It was steady, but about 2 pounds a week which is well within the realm of reasonable. As for the fads, I just wanted to throw my hands in the air. I wanted to look at her and, yes, say, "EAT LESS AND MOVE MORE AND STOP THINKING DRINKING LEMON WATER FOR A WEEK IS THE ANSWER TO ALL YOUR PROBLEMS!" That is not what I said, because I know this is hard, but I do not like having my weight loss discounted simply because I managed to lose it in a reasonable, sane way that did not starve me or purge my insides or whatever. What I did say was that if she was interested I would be happy to write up the general plan I followed for her...she said not right now. With the holidays and everything, she doesn't want to start a new "diet" until the New Year. I just nodded and wished her good luck.

kaplods
12-30-2008, 05:07 PM
I do understand why some people think they "can't" do certain things, when they really mean they aren't willing to, but even so alot of them wouldn't have to make many of the changes they think they would (especially not all at once).

If you don't like "that healthy stuff, like brown rice," so don't eat brown rice. There's no "rule" (well there is, but the rule is B.S.) that changes toward a healthy diet have to all be made in one day.

Same with adding the dreaded "exercise." Who is saying that you need to put in an hour on the treadmill every day before it "counts?" (Well, a lot of people... but they're wrong).

Eat healthier foods and eat fewer calories
This doesn't mean you have to go from eating 4000 calories of junk to eating 1000 calories of brown rice and raw veggies. To lose 1 lb a week, you only have to give up 500 calories a day, and if you're eating alot of high fat and high sugar stuff, you can often save those 500 calories eating what seems like more food. Yes, it means swapping out some of your favorites and trying some new foods, but 500 calories a day is not such a gigantically terrible sacrifice. And if it does seem so, then why not only cut 250 calories a day and lose 1/2 pound a week.

Exercise More

You can't do an hour on a treadmill? What are you able AND willing to do? So do that. Even if it's 5 minutes, it's a start.


I think too many people are afraid of change, because they're intimidated by the changes they think are required. They think they have to do a complete overhaul on their life, overnight. And some people may succeed, doing just that, but I think that starting with small changes is for many folks more doable, and yet they don't consider it, because the small changes don't yield impressive enough results.

So when people hear "eat healthier, eat less, and move more," they translate it mentally into something like "eat nothing but raw greenery, eat no foods I like, and spend at least an hour, ideally two every day pushing myself physically until it hurts really bad and I can barely move the next day."

The mistranslation, I think is the real barrier to weight loss - people assuming that they must "suffer terribly" in order to make changes.

PhotoChick
12-30-2008, 05:15 PM
I think there's also the element of "I can't do X until Y". Like "I can't" woman from across the hall. She won't even do the 5 minutes on the treadmill. We were talking about families going to a local park for their Christmas show. She said her boyfriend wanted her to walk down the mountain with him (it's a walking trail down this big limestone dome - not a real mountain). And she said "But I can't until I've been exercising a while."

So we're kinda giving her crap about it ... you can't walk down a paved trail until you've been to the gym? So are you going to the gym? Well, no I can't until after Christmas. Why not? Because I can't get proper gym clothes until ... etc., etc., etc. So what about walking around your neighborhood. See the gym clothing excuse. :)

Etc. For some people it doesn't matter if it's big or small ... they just "can't".

.

Shannon in ATL
12-30-2008, 05:36 PM
I've been that person who 'can't do x until y' in the past, and it got me exactly nowhere. The exercise clothes used to be a big thing for me - I couldn't go to the gym until I had exercise clothes that looked 'presentable', I couldn't get 'presentable' exercise clothes until I lost some weight so I didn't feel like one of those over stuffed sausages. (Obviously, I wasn't shopping for the right exercise clothes, either... ;) ) Well, today I went to the local park in hot pink spandex bikerish shorts, an orange t-shirt left over from my stint working for The Home Depot and a thin purple and grey sweatshirt. Felt great, had a great time, didn't care how I looked. I passed one woman a few times who obviously had the 'presentable' new exercise clothes. Didn't look like they were doing her much good as she sat on the bench talking on the phone. :)

Right now DH is in a 'just can't' place. It is hard to get out of once you get entrenched in it.

kaplods
12-30-2008, 05:45 PM
Ah yes, the dreaded "I can't until..."

I think seperating the true "I can't"s from the "I don't want to until"s is very difficult for many people. Some of it because it's drilled into us by social expectations, and others because of that mistranslation I was talking about and other mental games we play with ourselves, like adding conditions onto our goals.

I've done it with writing my novel. When I was working, I said "I can't write my novel, because I don't have the time. If I had the time, I would write." Well, now I'm on disability and have all of the time in the world, and I'm still not sitting down to wrie because I'm not making the time.

We hear people (sadly of all sizes) who say they "can't" swim because they "can't" be seen in public wearing a bathing suit.

What you don't want to do, or are afraid to do, certainly can feel like a true "can't," but it isn't. Knowing the difference, sometimes is the first step.

Schumeany
12-30-2008, 07:28 PM
Hey kaplods, I think your novel and my novel should get together and kick us both in the rears.

Ironically, I have been using my weight loss as an excuse not to get back to my writing. I have pretty much set my book aside for the last six months, except for editing, because the time I used to spend writing -- after my kids went to bed -- I now spend exercising. But I KNOW that if I worked at it, I could find a time each week that was mine for writing...I just haven't done it.

bargoo
12-30-2008, 07:33 PM
I heard Bob Greene say "if you eat less and move more, you WILL lose weight". Bob Greene is an expert in the physical fitness field. That statement is the truth, no matter how over simplified a statement it might be. I do eat less and I do that by counting calories and I also move more, not as much as I would like because of an injury and a serious illness. I have lost a significant amount of weight by counting calories, thus eating less.

JulieJ08
12-30-2008, 07:41 PM
I think this is, all in all, a fabulous discussion. I'm perfectly happy to believe that weight loss is simple and complex all at the same time. I'm comfy with paradox :)

rockinrobin
12-30-2008, 10:04 PM
It's not only that they can't or they don't, but that they won't.

And nevermind what they won't do, what are they willing to do? Sadly, not enough. Willingness is very important. There's many, many things one has to be willing to do in order to lose weight. Exercise & be active, monitor calories or have some sort of restriction somewhere, pass up on temptation, STICK to a plan (be consistient) & try new things, for starters.

EZMONEY
12-30-2008, 10:35 PM
I swear to god if one more person gives people struggling with their weight pithy little one line sayings like

"eat less move more" and my current rant starter

"eat food, not too much, mostly plants"

I am going to blow a gasket. ....

Down BULLDOG down.....:hug:

kaplods
12-30-2008, 10:52 PM
I think simple intimidations stops people from doing a lot of things they could do. Fear of being unable to accomplish a goal, keeps many people from trying.

I think that the willingness to change would be less of an obstacle for many folks, if they realized how small the changes can be to get started. No, you can't lost 100 lbs, become a marathon runner, a concert pianist, or a published novelist in a week. Each begins with much smaller steps, but people think they have to make HUGE steps and make dramatic progress immediately, and if they aren't able to do both, they give up, because "it's no use."

walking2lose
12-30-2008, 10:57 PM
I just wanted to say hi to Ennay! I haven't seen you around forever.

Great discussion. Personally I have lazed myself into a nice holiday gain... I haven't been counting or for that matter doing much exercise at all. Excuses, excuses. I KNOW what to do, but I have to do it. And, I will.

ennay
12-30-2008, 11:17 PM
Down BULLDOG down.....:hug:

Growl....snarl....ruff...ruff...grrrrrrr You wanna come get the kiddos so I dont bite? ;)

ennay
12-30-2008, 11:18 PM
I just wanted to say hi to Ennay! I haven't seen you around forever.

Great discussion. Personally I have lazed myself into a nice holiday gain... I haven't been counting or for that matter doing much exercise at all. Excuses, excuses. I KNOW what to do, but I have to do it. And, I will.

Hi Claire!

EZMONEY
12-30-2008, 11:46 PM
Growl....snarl....ruff...ruff...grrrrrrr You wanna come get the kiddos so I dont bite? ;)

SURE! But keep in mind they will come back spoiled rotten! ;)

ennay
12-30-2008, 11:51 PM
SURE! But keep in mind they will come back spoiled rotten! ;)

DEAL!

EZMONEY
12-30-2008, 11:57 PM
:woohoo: Hey ANG! the kids are coming...the kids are coming! :woohoo:

shcirerf
12-31-2008, 12:08 AM
Interesting topic.

Eat less, move more, repeat. That is the KISS principle/solution.

However it's not always that simple.

My DH is one of those skinny guys who could have the worst diet in the world, but as long as he's working doesn't gain an ounce. Me on the other hand, can't do that.

My mother has spent most of her adult life being morbidly obese. She has lost weight, with WW and a few years ago when she was diagnosed as non insulin dependent diabetic she lost weight. She was actually starting to look good. But, she has this mental thing, she just can't live without that pshycological fat. For some reason her fat is her insulation from the world. She got all the way down to a size 18 and my sisters and I were so proud of her, but it freaked her out! She could see her collar bone, and her hands were just so bony and on and on. Needless to say, she gained back about 75 pounds. I did see at Christmas, she's lost some again, but she doesn't look good. I think the lifetime of obesity is finally taking it's toll.

And since I'm in the mood to make a long post.....I work for a veterinarian and we deal with "fat" pets all the time. Older dogs, overweight, arthritis, etc. When we tell owners dog/cat needs to lose weight. Owners freak out.

OMG, feed the dog/cat less?!?! Actually take the pet for a daily walk? We CAN'T do that! Well ok, then spend the money for the pain meds. OMG! That stuff is expensive! Yeah, it is.

Because of my mothers struggles, my sisters and I try very hard to keep our weight and diet reasonable. We don't want to be diabetic, have gall bladder surgery, heart surgery, like Mom. It's not an easy task. We all struggle, we talk to each other, and thankfully, even thought we don't do it all the way it should be done, we are doing better than Mom.

For those of us who struggle with our weight and food issues, I really feel it is no different than those who battle alcohol, drugs, depression, and many other issues.

It can be made to seem simple, but it really isn't.

Anyway, thanks for listening!

mandalinn82
12-31-2008, 12:21 AM
Janelle - keep in mind that some pet owners (and, I'd suspect, people) do everything "right" and their pets don't lose weight. Just as some people need unconventional approaches or lose slower than others, so do some cats/dogs!

Says the girl whose cat was on diet food per the vet's explicit instruction, with NO extra food, no treats, for three years, and gained 2 lbs. Just saying that sometimes the owners really DO try.

HVEECK
12-31-2008, 04:14 AM
lol mandalinn!! I have an obese cat too ;)
i just want to say that i thoroughly enjoyed reading this post!!

kaplods
12-31-2008, 10:21 AM
Janelle - keep in mind that some pet owners (and, I'd suspect, people) do everything "right" and their pets don't lose weight. Just as some people need unconventional approaches or lose slower than others, so do some cats/dogs!

Says the girl whose cat was on diet food per the vet's explicit instruction, with NO extra food, no treats, for three years, and gained 2 lbs. Just saying that sometimes the owners really DO try.

_______________________________________________

mandalinn,

Just wanted to say, that "you told me so," when I talked about putting the fat cat we adopted onto a diet. We did assume that the previous owner had been feeding her a lot of junk (since she knew what french fries were and has an obsession for all things potato).

ChubChub did lose almost 2 lbs very quickly on a low calorie food and very low calorie treats, like bonito flakes (the entire jar which lasted for months, has maybe 25 calories, because the fish is shaved so thin. Each "treat" was like a tiny piece of fish-flavored tissue paper). Because she has arthritis, we also give her a daily glucosamine/chondroitin treat.

While the 2 lbs came off very quickly, she gained back about a half a pound for no apparent reason, except perhaps winter. Like my husband and I, winter slows us down a bit because of increased joint and muscle pain, and it seems to do the same for ChubChub. Once it started getting cold outside (even though the temperature hasn't changed all that much in the house), she had more difficulty moving around, and wanted to sleep more.

The less we feed ChubChub, the more she sleeps and the harder it is to get her to play. I think that's true for me too, because if I eat too few calories, I'm exhausted all of the time, and can barely stay awake.


I know our vet assumed we were overfeeding our last cat KeeKee. She wasn't very overweight, as she was only 8 lbs, but the vet wanted her to lose 3/4 to 1 lb. I think the vet assumed that because we were fat, she had to nip any tendency to overfeed in the bud. But when KeeKee got suddenly very ill and we had to take her in to the vet (we learned she was in cardiac arrest, and she died the next day), after the xrays, the vet (a different woman in the same practice) told us that the cat wasn't overweight at all, she was actually a bit underweight, but had been retaining fluid because of the heart defect she probably had all of her life.

Maybe if we were thin, when we told the first vet "but she hardly eats," she would have believed us and maybe even would have found the heart defect - or maybe she still would have assumed that she just was seeing a mildly overweight cat. The second vet did say that cats hide cardiac and many other health problems very well, because unlike dogs, cats rarely overexert themselves. When they're not feeling well, they might rest more but otherwise don't change their behavior much.

JayEll
12-31-2008, 11:04 AM
The best thing you can do to help a cat is to play with it, get it to do some activity. Even if they only lay on the floor and bat at a cat toy, it helps them. They're not animals that need to exercise except in bursts, but they do benefit from those bursts now and then.

And so now I've added the "move more" part of the saying! :p :lol:

BTW, both cats and people can experience weight gain as the weather gets colder. This is an adaptation to winter survival, and it's not just for bears... ;)

Jay

PhotoChick
12-31-2008, 11:16 AM
Heh. One thing that's helped our cat is having another cat move in next door. The racing from window to window ... and up and down the stairs ... as she frantically tries to watch "her territory" is not only amusing, it's helped her drop 1/2 lb in the last couple of months.

.

JulieJ08
12-31-2008, 11:54 AM
Heh. One thing that's helped our cat is having another cat move in next door. The racing from window to window ... and up and down the stairs ... as she frantically tries to watch "her territory" is not only amusing, it's helped her drop 1/2 lb in the last couple of months.

.

Ahhh, that's what's missing from my routine. Someone chasing me around my apartment. ;) Sorry, I blame it on my cold. :dizzy:

kaplods
12-31-2008, 01:01 PM
The only way to get our cat to exercise, IS to play with her. Otherwise, most of the day, she lays in a heap on the floor on her back, with her front legs tucked up on her chest and her back legs spread out quite shamelessly (in the middle of the floor of course, so you get exercise stepping over her). She looks like an otter (when they float on their backs) so we sometimes call her otter cat or otter girl. If you call her, she doesn't even get up, she'll turn her head in your direction. She even watches tv like this (yes, she watches tv, though I don't know what she sees), and in fact will lie facing away from the tv, tilting her head backwards to watch (I think because it requires less effort. To see over her belly facing the tv, she would have to lift her head higher in a bit of a "crunch" move to see the tv). That she doesn't mind watching upside down makes me think that she sees movement, not the actual picture.

But, when we first got her she ignored toys completely not only if they were lying on the floor, but if we tried to get her to play (even feathers on a string, which I've never known a cat to be able to resist) and she would ignore it, and I swear shoot us a "you've GOT to be kidding," look. She wouldn't even respond to moving hands under a blanket. She would take no interest, or at best look mildly interested, but wouldn't actually move (she was totally Gargfield).

In fact, she wouldn't move from the center of the floor if you walked up to her. She'd lay there expecting you to step over her, and if you nudged her with your foot to move, she'd growl (not just a crabby meow, and actual growl), and you actually had to push her with her foot to get her to move.


After she lost a little weight, she was a lot more interested in playing, and in toys. Although her "favorite" toy, is the stuffed catnip toy she came home with. There's an elderly lady that makes them and donates them to the humane society. The toys about 8 inches long and 2 inches in diameter, so it's a pretty big toy, but she doesn't really "bat" it, she carries it like a very oddly shaped kitten, and sleeps hugging it, so we call it "dolly." So we still have to play with her to get most of her exercise in, but if we restrict her calories too far, (or on days like today when the weather is bad and she seems to be aching), she reverts to looking at us like we're crazy when we try to get her to play.

She does love batting plastic soda bottle caps, so we leave a few on the floor, because it's the only "toy" she'll really play with herself (at least until shiny mousy entered the house). The bank gave us a "free" cat toy of a tiny red sequinned mouse, and we thought she'd ignore it, but she loves it - I think because it's red like the bottle caps and shiny. If spends more than 10 seconds with either the bottle caps or shiny mousy, we know she's feeling really good.

We brought her a fat stuffed gray lamb I found in Bath and Body Works for $2 after Christmas. It's bigger than toys most cats play with, but we rubbed some organic catnip (from a gourmet shop we shopped in the same day we bought lambie) into the lamb's fleece. It's only a little bit bigger than dolly, and dolly is getting a bit ratty, so we were hoping we could transfer her attention from dolly to lambie (but as with substituting anyone's favorite teddy, the replacement is never the same).

eightc
12-31-2008, 01:31 PM
Hi, I may be the only dissenter here- but I eat a lot more-
A lot more vegetables, a lot more salads, a lot more yogurt and berries, just a lot more of foods with volume and not a lot of calories. I can eat a half cup of ice cream and then go back to finish the pint. Or, I can eat a plateful of salad with tuna and pickles, and be full for hours.
When I was eating a lot less food, it was a LOT more calories and it seemed as if I was always hungry. Besides not feeling as energetic.
So sometimes, it would be "eat a lot more-with better choices".
:)

Schumeany
12-31-2008, 01:48 PM
Eightc -- that is a really good point. I make salads that are the size of serving bowls these days. I think I'll change my mantra to "Eat less CALORIES, move more"

Our cat is 16, she NEVER moves anymore. My husband keeps wondering if she ever goes to the bathroom...since I clean the box, I know she does... She will still, however, get up and even be bouncy for one of those little laser pointers (Not the real ones, just a mini flashlight so it cannot harm her...) that makes a little light for her to chase around the floor. Unfortunately, she is going blind, apparently, in both eyes from detachment of her retinas. We might never have known this, as cats are SO good at adjusting to loss of eye sight, except we moved the furniture for Christmas and she bumped head on into the legs of one of our chairs. While she can still see well enough to to see the light, she cannot see it as well as she used to. She, however, is a Devon Rex and weighs about 5 lbs. so being overweight has never been an issue for her... As our dog is 10 and is going deaf, I live in an interesting world of geriatric pets with disabilities.

momof4girls
12-31-2008, 01:54 PM
I dont think it is necessarliy eat less, move more but Choose healthy, move more.

mandalinn82
12-31-2008, 02:02 PM
I didn't mean to threadjack! Poor Bob. The only exercise he's gotten lately was when we had dogs visiting the weekend after Christmas...and he panicked so much that he DID run. Of course, he also went completely out of control and ripped off two of his claws at the base.

Normally, he'll only play with toys if they are -right- on him. Like if you put the laser pointer one inch in front of his paw, he'll lift the paw and smack it. Otherwise, he just looks at it, as if he's saying "Interesting. Perhaps if it was closer I'd consider tapping it lightly with my paw".

I actually think I eat more VOLUME also. But fewer calories. Perhaps I should make the distinction!

rockinrobin
12-31-2008, 02:33 PM
Great point! I eat an enormous VOLUME of food. But of course they are nutritionally sound and most importantly, low in calories. I eat my salad out of a serving bowl. I very often eat an entire head of cauliflower at a time. And I eat frequently.

But I think we may be talking semantics here. I believe the term, "eat less", really does mean to consume LESS calories. And I'm thinking it pretty much wasn't meant to mean just eat somewhat less ice cream or somewhat less cake in order to lose weight. But that it means to eat healthy. Oh who am I kidding. I don't know what it was meant to "mean". :dunno:

WarMaiden
12-31-2008, 03:08 PM
Great point! I eat an enormous VOLUME of food. But of course they are nutritionally sound and most importantly, low in calories. I eat my salad out of a serving bowl. I very often eat an entire head of cauliflower at a time. And I eat frequently.

But I think we may be talking semantics here. I believe the term, "eat less", really does mean to consume LESS calories. And I'm thinking it pretty much wasn't meant to mean just eat somewhat less ice cream or somewhat less cake in order to lose weight. But that it means to eat healthy. Oh who am I kidding. I don't know what it was meant to "mean". :dunno:

Something I've noticed amongst the maintainers here is that all of you, without an exception (that I can think of), eat not just fewer calories than you did before you lost/maintained weight, but a much higher quality of food. To a woman/man, you all seem to espouse a whole-foods-focused diet with little processed or junk stuff.

But when I look at many of the beginning losers, especially those starting out on calorie-counting, there are a lot of people who are eating 1200 to 1500 calories per day of, well...stuff that's not all that nutritionally sound.

So yeah, I do think there's a common conception out there that the "eat less" part means "eat the same stuff you were eating before, only in smaller portions." And while that clearly works at first, I don't think in the long run it works. If it DID work, we'd see maintainers who were still eating like that; but none of you are, I'm prety sure. I think the concept of "eat the same stuff but less" actually ends up in people getting frustrated and abandoning their efforts, because they are hungry and their bodies are not getting the necessary nutrition.

Schumeany
12-31-2008, 03:27 PM
Warmaiden, I think that is a good point. I've only been maintaining a month, but when I look at food now, I am hunting for nutrient rich and unprocessed. While I have always been an organic produce kind of person, now I am also a local produce, whole grains, good fats kind of person. I don't eat anything, if I can help it, without reading the label first...to see what I'm putting in my body. It is a complete change in how I look at food...not just does it taste good, but is it WORTH eating.

While I have had a slice of veggie pizza -- it is a once a month kind of thing, and it is from a pizzaria that uses all organic ingredients and whole wheat flour in their crust. Even the ham I had for Christmas, while for a special occasion, I bought at a local coop. It had no preservatives in it and it was a spiral cut ham, on the bone, so it was not one of those "squished together, who knows what part of the animal you are eating, hams."

I like to eat volume, it makes me feel full, and I like to eat nutrition that I know makes my body feel like it is getting what it needs...you aren't going to get that eating "less" ice cream or "less" McDonald's french fries or "less" saltine crackers -- even if you eat under your calories everyday. I want my weight loss and my renewed energy to be a forever thing, and eventually, if you constantly feed your body french fries -- even if it is less of them, your body will still be begging you for real food with some nutrition in it...in essence making you feel hungry...and you are going to eat a few more french fries to try and satisfy it, unless you learn to choose better options.

kaplods
12-31-2008, 03:33 PM
In Weight Watcher's and TOPS groups, I met people who not only hated nearly all veggies, but some didn't like any fruit either. Now telling them that eating less, or eating healthy means a salad at every meal, and eating mostly fruits and vegetables - well, it's going to freak them out - so they perhaps shouldn't start there. Eating less and eating healthier might mean eating less icecream and cake (at least at first). I think that slow and gradual changes would work for a lot of yoyoers or diet-phobic folks, but people want fast results and you can't get fast results on gradual changes (Heck, often you can't get fast results on extreme changes). Our impatience (and the way in which most of us have been taught to "diet") gets in the way.

I was watching a show on "the mermaid girl" and after before her kidney transplant she was underweight and not eating, and afterward the prednisone and feeling better made her hungry and she became overweight. Although she was only 8, and still growing her doctor gave her advice that is great for anyone of any age (at least to start) "I'm not going to tell you what you can't eat, but I want you to include at least 5 servings of fruits and vegetables."

That doesn't necessarily work well for weight loss, if you eat the fruits and veggies on top of what you're normally eating, but if you're eating no low-calorie foods, eating more (volume) can result in you eating less (in calories) without hardly realizing it. It may not get you to your goal weight, but it certainly can be a good start.

I think it's a great way for many folks to start a weight loss plan, especially the "junk food junkies," because it's less intimidationg (even if not all that logical on the surface). Don't eat less - eat more (of these foods....).

I had a doctor tell me this in my twenties, and I thought he was nuts, but I did lose weight just by not counting anything and the only change being to to add servings of fruits and vegetables (and as he suggested eating 3 servings of veggies for every one serving of fruit). Now, if I had only 10 lbs to lose, maybe this wouldn't have worked so well, and as I've found that I can overeat fruits and vegetables, it wasn't enough for me in the long term. However, if I hadn't let graduate school while working full time lure me back into "grab and go" eating, it could have been a very good start.

I think we often believe that we have to make all of our changes from the beginning. People who are a hundred pounds overweight, try to put in an hour on the treadmill, get exhausted after three minutes and think that it's "useless" because they "can't exercise." If all you can do is three minutes, then start with three minutes. If you hate all vegetables, but green beans - then eat TONS of green beans and keep trying other veggies. If you hate veggies unless they're drowned in rich sauces like butter, cheese, gravy, or ranch dressing, then eat them drowning in butter, cheese, gravy or ranch dressing and gradually cut back on the quantity or richness of the sauce until you do like them naked.

When I made the switch from regular soda to diet (at about age 10), my parents were buying regular soda for my skinny dad and brother, and diet for mom and me. I hated the diet soda, but my parents would let me mix regular and diet at first. So at first I was drinking 3/4 regular and 1/4 diet, then 50/50, 25/75, and finally 100% diet.

I've been doing the same now that I'm switching from Crystal Light to plain water - I'm adding more water than "called for" to the packets. It's not a calorie savings, and I'm not overly worried about Crystal Light, so I'm doing it more for economic than health/weight reasons (hubby and I are both on Medicare and Medicare costs, probably like many people's insurance costs, are going WAY up for 2009. It looks like our medication costs arre going to gradruple or more and our health care coverage is going to nearly double).

I think we often judge folks pretty harshly for not being motivated enough to make a lot of overnight changes, chiding them for just not being motivated enough, when I think a lot of people would find more motivation by just making a few tiny changes and experiencing success. A lot of people do have a sort of learned helplessness when it comes to weight loss. The only way they've ever tried to lose weight is to make humongous overnight changes that then become overwhelmied. The "classic" diet approach really for many folks sets them up for failure.

I know my New Year's resolutions for many of my 36 dieting years went something like

1. Eat 1200 calories every day
2. Log every bite
3. Drink 12 glasses of water
4. Exercise (sweating and breathing hard the entire time) for an hour 5 to 7 days per week
5. Never eat off plan (which usually meant a huge list of "forbidden" foods)
6. Eat 5 servings or more of vegetables
7. Eat no more than 2 servings of fruit
8. Plan meals/snacks (if the diet allows snacks) at least 24 hours in advance
9. No unscheduled eating at all
10. Go to diet meetings EVERY week (Weight Watcher's, TOPS, OA...)


And sometimes I added even more rules and goals to the list, and I expected perfection in each of those goals. Of course, I didn't live up to my expectations, so when my weight loss wasn't as rapid as I'd hoped for, I blamed it on not following ALL of the rules I'd set for myself (in fact, it was never what I hoped for because I was always telling myself how much faster the weight loss would have been if I'd followed all of my rules). Instead of mastering one small change before moving onto a new change, I blamed myself (and often other people in my life blamed me as well) for not being motivated enough.

rockinrobin
12-31-2008, 03:35 PM
So yeah, I do think there's a common conception out there that the "eat less" part means "eat the same stuff you were eating before, only in smaller portions." And while that clearly works at first, I don't think in the long run it works. If it DID work, we'd see maintainers who were still eating like that; but none of you are, I'm prety sure. I think the concept of "eat the same stuff but less" actually ends up in people getting frustrated and abandoning their efforts, because they are hungry and their bodies are not getting the necessary nutrition.

Which is why that simple line really says and means nothing and why ennay, the OP, was probably miffed about it in the first place. Eat less, move more is not telling anyone very much.

When I was 287 lbs, had I just "ate less and moved more", I may have lost something, but not very much and it most likely wouldn't have STAYED off.

I needed to totally and completely (temporarily) elminate all the junk in order for my desire for them to fade.

I need to eat protein, and fiber in order for me to be satisfied and to keep cravings at bay.

It wasn't just the amounts of food I was eating that was wrong, it was the types as well.

Oh and I believe that just moving wouldn't have done as much good either. I needed the benefit of adding muscle. No where does that come across in the "move more" portion of the equation.

Schumeany
12-31-2008, 03:42 PM
Wow, my mantra is evolving... "Eat less CRAP and less CALORIES, and move more and BUILD MUSCLE" It doesn't roll off the tongue quite the same, but it is more truthful. You are right, Robin. :)

kaplods
12-31-2008, 03:54 PM
I think that interpreting the "eat less, move more," in a meaningful way for ourselves often ends up a bit like Steve Martin's monologue in "The Jerk"...

Well I'm gonna to go then. And I don't need any of this. I don't need this stuff, and I don't need you. I don't need anything except this. [picks up an ashtray] Just this ashtray. And this paddle game, the ashtray and the paddle game and that's all I need. And this remote control. The ashtray, the paddle game, and the remote control, and that's all I need. And these matches. The ashtray, and these matches, and the remote control and the paddle ball. And this lamp. The ashtray, this paddle game and the remote control and the lamp and that's all I need. And that's all I need too. I don't need one other thing, not one - I need this. The paddle game, and the chair, and the remote control, and the matches, for sure. And this. And that's all I need. The ashtray, the remote control, the paddle game, this magazine and the chair....

midwife
12-31-2008, 04:05 PM
This thread is taking such an interesting evolution.

My own eating habits have changed during my weight loss journey. I used to be a strict calorie counting kind of girl---anything was fair game as long as it fit into my calories for the day. Now, I eat how WarMaiden pointed out, clean and healthy and unprocessed as much as possible. I've slowly changed not only how I eat, but also what I eat and WHY I eat. If someone would have plucked me out of my old life and into my new life, I would have shriveled on the vine. I had to figure this stuff out gradually....

Before, I ate food that was barely food---processed, fried, refined....etc. Last night my DH mentioned getting a soda and all I thought about was the color & additives and sugar----I had NO interest in a soda and I'm not sure if I ever will have a soda again. I have no aspirations of perfection and if I do someday, okay, whatever....but right now I have no interest in putting that much sugar or aspartame or caffeine into my system.

I think I do eat a lot of food through the day. I'm not tracking calories anymore. I aim for a certain number of grams of protein & servings of fruit, veggies, complex carbs, and healthy fats. Maybe if I cut calories I would lose a little more, but I am rather content with where I am and I like what I eat and how I exercise.

I see newbies reaching for 1200 calorie meal plans....and maybe that is what they need, but my inner answer is usually "Why? Why not eat as much as you can of healthy foods and see how your body responds first to those changes before slashing your calories to the bare bones?"**** I like the suggestion to incorporate a certain number of servings of fruits and veggies. I think that alone makes a difference. I believe the answer is not always "how much" but "what" we are eating.

***Footnote to add, I think calorie counting has a place....I would just rather see more plans start at 2000 or 1800 or 1600 calories of real food first, rather than putting together a 1200 calorie day of processed foods.

ennay
12-31-2008, 04:10 PM
I think also though...we see so many people who freak out early in the diet because they ate an icecream cone and "ruined their diet". One of the glorious things about moderation is that it is OK not to be PERFECT. Thats where I was getting a little ticked off with the over espousing of Pollan. Because while I do think it is something to strive towards, I also think that would be radically hard for a lot of people. Meet people where they ARE.

While most of the maintainers on here DO eat a much healthier diet than before, I think most of them eat stuff that Pollan would quantify as "non food" at least occasionally. (Splenda comes to mind) I hate to see someone new look at the Pollan plan and feel overwhelmed.

midwife
12-31-2008, 04:28 PM
I think also though...we see so many people who freak out early in the diet because they ate an icecream cone and "ruined their diet". One of the glorious things about moderation is that it is OK not to be PERFECT. .

I agree 100%.

Schumeany
12-31-2008, 04:38 PM
Ennay, that is absolutely 100% correct. I did not say eat NO CRAP. Who would want to live life thinking they can NEVER have a bite of cheesecake ever again or never eat, yes, a few french fries on the rare occasion. Having an off plan meal or even day is not something to feel guilty about, it is called life! This is forever, not a finite diet for a week or two weeks that you can "mess up" with one too many margaritas and chicken wings on a given night.

But learning to live the overall "whole foods" philosophy and caring about the food I eat has made this weight loss journey much, much easier -- instead of mindlessly shoveling in whatever. I eat french fries, rarely but I do eat them, but I THINK about it when I do it and I am careful with how many I eat, I don't just order them in due course and snarf down the whole little red cardboard container full.

kaplods
12-31-2008, 04:50 PM
It does seem that expectations of perfection are so wrapped up in the "diet culture." How often do we see it here, and how many of us have been in that place in which we we think of ourselves as having "been bad" (in various degrees, "a little bad" or "really bad") or "messing up," or having to "start over," often when the less than perfect choices are far from the tragedy that they appear to be when you're in that place.

Weight management, exercise, and health are skills, and it's not about perfection, it's about consistently improving (either continuously or until you decide you're at a level you want to maintain - and even then, that can be a temporary decision). It is like playing an instrument - not all of us are going to have the ability (or the interest) to play at the highest levels. Not everyone is going to strive for competitive sports or an optimally healthy diet (if it were possible to define one). Some of us will go on to run marathons. Some of us may adhere to a fairly strict diet. Some of us will decide never to stop improving, and some of us will find a point at which we're comfortable.

I think one of the hugest obstacles to weight loss is when people think they have to know where they want to end up, before they even start. And worse, some folks believe that where they want to end up, is where they have to start.

And I think those myths are perpetuated by many sources. It's not only a common belief, it's often encouraged in many ways in what we see and hear in the media and from each other. Most of us can think of an example of some of the cuckoo advice we've been given, sometimes by the "experts" who should know better.

JayEll
12-31-2008, 04:54 PM
Not to hijack the thread, but Michael Pollan irritates the heck out of me... :p

Back on the original topic--this is always going to come down to personal choices. I don't care for cheesecake and have never met one I couldn't pass up easily. Just goes to show.

However, I find that recently I am able to have an open container of ice cream in my freezer again, and NOT eat it. This is almost a miracle. For two years or more, no ice cream could come into the house because I had no self-control about it. None.

This change has come about for a lot of very complex reasons--not bringing it home for a long, long time, generally not eating ice cream, losing weight, losing my sweet tooth by not eating refined carbohdrates generally--all of which are way beyond the simple "Eat less, move more."

So I guess I'd say that "Eat less, move more" is a starting point, and only that. It's not a prescription or a plan, it's only a concept. One has to go beyond it to make progress.

Progress, not perfection.

Jay

kaplods
12-31-2008, 05:10 PM
Progress, not perfection.

Now that is worthy of a mantra. Most folks, even those who eat horribly and know next to nothing about nutrition, can grasp this concept, and run with it. I don't have to be perfect, I just have to be better. That may mean learning about nutrition, trying healthier foods.... heck just about anything. If you're always making progress, no matter how slow, you will eventually get to where you want to be.

WarMaiden
12-31-2008, 05:27 PM
One of the glorious things about moderation is that it is OK not to be PERFECT. Thats where I was getting a little ticked off with the over espousing of Pollan. Because while I do think it is something to strive towards, I also think that would be radically hard for a lot of people. Meet people where they ARE.

While most of the maintainers on here DO eat a much healthier diet than before, I think most of them eat stuff that Pollan would quantify as "non food" at least occasionally. (Splenda comes to mind) I hate to see someone new look at the Pollan plan and feel overwhelmed.

Moderation is fine, in moderation ;) For some people, moderation doesn't work as a mantra; I'm one of those. There are certain kinds of foods I cannot be moderate about, and if they're in my diet at all, the whole thing goes to crap. One of -my- pet peeves is the preaching of moderation. I think it should be suggested, if a person is looking for a way to change their diet, that moderation is one possible approach...but moderation is not necessarily the best approach for every person, all the time. Some of us require abstinence.

I also see an assumption in this thread that Michael Pollan is akin to a diet fascist and undoubtedly never eats something non-perfect. I highly doubt that those things are true; the impression I get from reading his stuff is that he's simply trying to be helpful to all of us who are stuck in the Standard American Diet way of eating.

Personally, I got a lot out of reading In Defense of Food, and really like the "eat food, mostly plants, not too much" recommendation. The sense I got of it is that he WAS making a recommendation of "moderation."

Shannon in ATL
12-31-2008, 05:29 PM
I like "progress, not perfection" as well.

I eat significantly better than I used to eat - I had a salad for lunch today, something that I wouldn't have even considered a year ago. I haven't cut out all of the processed foods, but I am a lot more careful. I found myself wandering around my kitchen in a funk yesterday afternoon because I wasn't satisfied with any of my snack options. A year ago I would have eaten DHs mini rice cakes or a piece of candy and gone on. Heck, six months ago I would have, too, I would have just counted the calories in them! :)

I still eat too much junk - we have several fast food meals each time we have DSS, I still eat too much candy, I don't always get enough protein. But, I'm making progress on a better diet, I eat half the calories I used to eat, I move a lot more. I'm making progress, but will never be perfect. :)

PhotoChick
12-31-2008, 05:56 PM
I think calorie counting has a place....I would just rather see more plans start at 2000 or 1800 or 1600 calories of real food first, rather than putting together a 1200 calorie day of processed foods.I agree so much.

I also agree with the moderation thing. I also agree that there are some things that for some people, moderation doesn't happen (me and sour cream and onion chips, for example :) ). I also agree that one ice cream cone doesn't "ruin my diet". And so forth.

I've posted this on my blog and here before - I'll post it again ...

I think that a lot of people, when they first start to lose weight, sabotage themselves with the idea that they have to completely revamp their lives and that they have to do it all at once.

Now, I won’t lie - my life now is NOTHING like my life 2 years ago. And if you had told me 2 years ago that this would be my life, I’d have given up. I’d have said “I can’t do that” and just quit then and there.

Where I am now is the result of changes made step by step by step over that 2 year period.

I wish there were some way to let people know that it's ok to move into this new life slowly and gradually, rather than making them think they had to make huge changes all at once.

.

mandalinn82
12-31-2008, 06:09 PM
Here is the thing. There are many, many different ways of losing weight. Some people do moderation well. Some people need to cut all junk. Some people CAN'T cut ALL junk, or they'll feel deprived. Some people need to make drastic, sweeping changes. Others need to make gradual changes. Some can work intuitively. Others have to count calories.

All of this is FINE until someone starts saying "Well, x way you're doing is not right and will never work". Which might be true for the person saying it (for example, intuitive eating has NEVER, and I don't think WILL ever, work for me. Intuition is off) but doesn't mean it is true for EVERYONE. Which is why you'll notice that, when I give advice here on the boards, you'll find "For me", "In my experience", and "some people find" quite a bit...because there is no one right way that works for everyone. There are MANY right ways, strategies, and approaches.

recidivist
12-31-2008, 06:29 PM
I think that a lot of people, when they first start to lose weight, sabotage themselves with the idea that they have to completely revamp their lives and that they have to do it all at once.

I'm sure I've sabotaged many attempts to restart my healthy eating because I was in depression mode and comfort foods and the thought of giving up all those comfort foods was too much to bear. I've always been the clean cut drastic change dieter. I try to cut out all the bad stuff at once, and it's so hard to mentally prepare yourself for that. I wish I'd approached it differently. Maybe I wouldn't have gained all my weight back. I could have stopped it before it got this bad through more subtle changes...but then again, maybe not, becuase when I'm in an unhealthy place in my head, I'm not sure I'd even be able to stick to subtle changes.

Right now I'm fighting with myself over the fact that I eat certain processed grains (white rice and white flour tortillas and white pasta) and think I need to cut them all out and switch to whole grains only, but I can't get whole wheat tortillas up here unless I make my own, so I should really start making bread again and switch from wraps to sandwiches. And I absolutely despise whole wheat pastas of any kind (fortunately I rarely eat pasta)...and I love white rice (jasmine rice, especially) and dislike brown rice. So do I beat myself up over my choice of white rice and white flour tortillas, or give myself encouragement for the other good things I'm eating. I'm a perfectionist, so I am beating myself up over it and trying to figure out ways to kick all processed grains.

I'm curious, how many of you who have been at this for a while, really do eat only whole grains in rice, and pasta?

mandalinn82
12-31-2008, 06:32 PM
Well, at home that's all I eat. But out (say, at a Chinese restaurant, or a pasta place) it isn't always an option. If it is an option, I get the whole grain one. If it isn't, I typically try to eat less of whatever it is but don't worry about it too much.

JulieJ08
12-31-2008, 06:35 PM
I'm curious, how many of you who have been at this for a while, really do eat only whole grains in rice, and pasta?

Me. I will eat white rice or refined pasta if I have no other choice, but that's uncommon. I frankly prefer brown rice and multigrain pasta.

recidivist
12-31-2008, 06:42 PM
Me. I will eat white rice or refined pasta if I have no other choice, but that's uncommon. I frankly prefer brown rice and multigrain pasta. Did you prefer them when you first tried them, or was it something you had to become accustomed to? Like I said, if I had to eat whole wheat pasta or nothing, I'd cut pasta from my diet completely. Brown rice is not as bad, but still not a pleasurable experience for me. But maybe I have to start mixing them and change the proportions until I am completely switched to brown.

JulieJ08
12-31-2008, 06:48 PM
Did you prefer them when you first tried them, or was it something you had to become accustomed to? Like I said, if I had to eat whole wheat pasta or nothing, I'd cut pasta from my diet completely. Brown rice is not as bad, but still not a pleasurable experience for me. But maybe I have to start mixing them and change the proportions until I am completely switched to brown.

Hard to say, as I've preferred brown rice for a long time. However, I recently discovered brown basmati rice, and I like that even better.

I don't like whole wheat pasta as much as I like multigrain pasta. But I'm not huge on pasta in general. I usually prefer rice because it has more chew. Regular pasta seems like it goes down in no seconds flat and doesn't fill me.

I just have always preferred chewier, nuttier grains. Bread the same way.

junebug41
12-31-2008, 06:55 PM
I'm curious, how many of you who have been at this for a while, really do eat only whole grains in rice, and pasta?

I'm a whole grain/brown pasta/rice/bread person only. I didn't mind the switch, although when I eat asian cuisine I much prefer white rice. A lot of italian restaurants will now sub whole wheat pasta, but I don't know how good the quality is.

Also, my father has always cooked with whole wheat pasta so I was used to it. Like Julie, I also prefer the texture. Unfortunately, I have to limit my intake due to sensitivity, but when I do cook with it it's always "brown".

junebug41
12-31-2008, 06:57 PM
Hard to say, as I've preferred brown rice for a long time. However, I recently discovered brown basmati rice, and I like that even better.

Oh man. I just discovered basmati recently and I'm in love. The texture is awesome, the flavor is awesome, the calorie count is lower and I'm not as sensitive to it. It actually fills me up.

recidivist
12-31-2008, 07:04 PM
I'll have to look for the basmati brown rice. I bet the health food section has it in the bulk grains. Thanks for the tip.

I'm with you on the whole grains in breads. Except for french and sourdough, I don't think I've purchased a loaf of white bread since my early 20's. Oh except at harvest bread company...their white bread is to die for, but only as an occassional treat. And fortunately I don't have a harvest bread company near me. I did get my recipe for seedy wheaty bread from copying theirs though. It has lots of different seeds in it and is really wonderful.

kaplods
12-31-2008, 07:21 PM
I bought some whole grain black jasmine rice (it's actually a dark purple when cooked)/ I bought it to make thai sticky rice (where it's boiled, discarded and then glutinous rice is boiled in the purple water). It's only purpose is to make the glutinous rice "pretty" (I think to simulate an actual purple rice that you can't easily get in the U.S.).

I've never made the sticky rice, and I haven't tried the black rice yet either. I wasn't even sure it was good to eat (as I'd been told it wasn't), but at the Hmong/Thai restaurant we often go to, they don't throw out the cooked purple/black rice, but incorporate some of it into the sticky rice for a nice chewy texture. Although the owner told me you can't use too much of the black cooked rice if you're making it for sticky rice, or the rice won't stick.

It's made me less hesitant to try the purple rice on it's own. As much as I love sticky rice, I've decided not to make it at home. I would eat far too much of it.

beerab
12-31-2008, 07:23 PM
I totally agree- I hate the whole "eat less and move more."

That did NOT work for me- I actually was down to 1200 calories a day and totally starving myself and didn't move- sure at first I went down a few pounds- then that was it- NOTHING. I gave that up and ended up gaining 35 pounds during college. I started at 155 and ended at like 190! Getting married packed on another 30 freaking pounds UG- my hubby loves fast food but haha not anymore too bad for him. It's funny over the holiday we went to taco bell and he was like omg I can't remember the last time I went to taco bell!

I do the fat smash now- and before my lunch would be a lean cuisine and a yogurt- now my lunches consist of a meat (usually chicken), veggies, brown rice or lentils, and water.

I look at my co-workers lunch and it's always a sandwich on white bread, chips, cookies, and so on. They look at my lunch like wow looks good lol.

Today my lunch was a huge bowl of lentil soup and a two tangerines, water to drink, and normally I'd have a third item- but I brought a large portion of lentil soup so I wasn't worried (that and I need to go shopping today lol).

I hate when the "thin ones" would say "just eat less" and I'm like uh that doesn't work smart ***....

I found that I wasn't eating enough during the day and also wasn't really paying attention to what I was eating.

I started my food journal and it was great cuz I realized I was eating 2100-2300 calories a day! No wonder I wasn't losing! Now with my log book I'm averaging like 1800 calories a day, and losing 1-2 lbs a week :)

I always give people details on what I do- and the ones who say they can't I just say well sorry but there is no magic cure to weight loss.

THOUGH I've heard about those Vitamin B injections- they work- but if you don't learn how to eat you'll just gain it all back I'm assuming. :(

JayEll
12-31-2008, 07:31 PM
Sometimes I eat whole grain foods, other times I don't. I eat brown rice at home, but I will have white rice out. I just don't eat more than 1/2 cup of it, regardless! I cannot stand whole wheat pasta--I'd rather eat cardboard. I don't do that well with whole wheat products in general.

There are many things I would do for a fresh loaf of San Francisco Sourdough... :drool:

It's possible to make food choices so hard that one ends up backed into a corner and unable to eat anything without feeling bad about it. Is that any way to live? I don't think so. I do think it's good to eat whole grains and fresh foods as much as possible, organic even! But not if it becomes oppressive.

recidivist, if you have the time and energy to start making your own bread, that's great. If you don't, then manage however you can! It's OK! :) :hug:

Jay

beerab
12-31-2008, 07:36 PM
oh I googled "flax bread" and a ton of recipes came up I think I'll be trying this one:

http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/breads/r/flaxbasicfoc.htm

recidivist
12-31-2008, 07:55 PM
recidivist, if you have the time and energy to start making your own bread, that's great. If you don't, then manage however you can! It's OK! I've got the time and energy, it's the kneading and rising that's a problem. I have bad shoulders and sometimes can barely stand to carry the weight of my arms, let alone try to knead a dense bread. Too dense for a bread machine. I've broken several of them trying. And when I make bread it's very dense and hard to knead. And my house is usually too cold for the yeast to work properly. Although I am using some small oil filled heaters that I might be able to rig up a way to put the rising dough near them. I'm going to have to do that today, because I really do need more whole grains in my diet and that's the best way to do it.

For those who do like to make their own bread, here's my recipe for seedy wheaty bread. It's not exact, as I just estimated based on some other recipes and you may need to change liquids to get the right consistency.

2 tsp yeast
1 Tbsp honey
1 1/2 cups warm water (or more as needed)
3 cups whole wheat flour
1/2 cup seed mixture
2 tsp salt

seed mixture (I mix up a big batch of this and keep it in the freezer):
raw sunflower seeds
raw pumpkin seeds
chopped walnuts
poppy seed
flax seed
fennel seed
caraway seed
buckwheat
rolled oats

Well now I just talked myself into it. I have to see if I can make some rolls today. Even if they are hard little bricks, I can make myself eat them.:D

ennay
12-31-2008, 08:47 PM
I use a bread machine for the dough setting then shape and bake my own.

I do use whole grain whenever possible, but I always have. I was raised that way. MTA: on pasta I use the Barilla plus. I liked some brands of whole wheat fine, but my dh did not and this was our compromise.

gymlee
12-31-2008, 11:22 PM
Personally, I think the reason why people can get a little peeved by people using phrases like "Eat less, more move." is because it's a platitude and people hear platitudes all the time. It's something so cliche and overused that it can lose it's meaning. Or people can respond to something like that like "Ok, that's all well and good but what should I eat less of? What kind of movement should I do more of?" etc etc with all kinds of questions because it is so easy to just say something like that but if they don't give specific examples it can seem like they're callously saying it and those who are being told it can take it the wrong way. I think it's really important for people who use sayings like that to be able to back it up with examples so it doesn't seem like they're brushing it off and it seems like there's some actual thought and concern behind it which I think is something that overweight people need or if they have gone through the process before have a better understand of.

PhotoChick
12-31-2008, 11:27 PM
I'm curious, how many of you who have been at this for a while, really do eat only whole grains in rice, and pasta?I'd say 90%. I actually prefer the brown/whole grain versions now. The regular versions taste gummy to me.

I'm trying to think of the last time I ate non-whole grain.

I had sourdough loaf with my salad at the deli last week. And I had a few bites of white rice when DH and I went to PF Chang's a few weeks ago (right after T'giving). But it wasn't really what I was in the mood for, and I stuck with my shrimp and broccoli for the most part.

I honestly really do eat about 90% to 95% whole grains and brown rice.

.

JulieJ08
12-31-2008, 11:35 PM
I think simple sayings are simple for a reason. They're shorthand. Once you've spent months or years losing weight and finding what works for you, a short, simple saying is a quick reminder for you. On the other hand, when you're new or struggling with something, you need details and options to explore. Short and sweet isn't what you need. But short and sweet is perfect later on, and keeps you on track.

I don't think they're meant to be all you need to know to lose weight. They're meant to highlight the bottom line.

But of course, that won't stop people from telling you that's all you need to know. Maybe they don't know better, maybe they mean to be insulting (perhaps subconsciously), maybe they want to help and don't know what else to say. Maybe it just works really well for them and they don't realize everyone is different. It is certainly hard to struggle so much with something and be misunderstood.

kaplods
01-01-2009, 12:09 AM
Often I think the problem with plattitudes is that they're such shorthand, that there's little real truth or helpfulness in them, because often the opposite plattitude is just as true.

Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Out of sight, out of mind

And some of the diet plattitudes are just as open to interpretation, misinterpretation, and exceptions to the rule, or cases that don't fit it.

Still, I don't think that it's generally productive to get upset when folks spout plattitudes. There are a lot of reasons they do. Sometimes just to fill dead air space - when people don't know what to say, they often use plattitudes (think of some of the crazy stuff people say at funerals - my MIL was told "at least you've got your dogs" after her husband died). Sometimes because the "long answer" would take weeks to explain. And yes, sometimes even in condescension.

Weight loss is complicated, and we want it simple. But, can you imagine asking a physicists in casual conversation at the bus stop to explain "how physics works," in the five minutes it will take for the bus to arrive.

Sustainable weight loss cannot be condensed into a sound bite. Asking how a person lost 50 lbs, might be the equivalent of asking an architect how he learned to design buildings. What exactly do you want to know, how much detail do you want, and how much time do you have? Do you want the five minute answer, or the 8 year graduate degree version? And if you're getting the five minute answer, you need to realize that it probably isn't going to give you all the information you need to start designing your own skyscrapers.

rockinrobin
01-01-2009, 12:35 AM
There is not one thing that I eat or don't eat 100% of the time. There is no way for me to explain "my plan" in one sentence or 10. There are almost always exceptions to my hardcore, steadfast, rules.

BTW, I have never eaten whole grain pasta. Never, not once. I eat pasta sooooo infrequently, that when I do have it, it's the regular white stuff. And the few times that I have had it, I did not practice "moderation".

Schumeany
01-01-2009, 12:47 AM
I eat whole grain about 75% of the time. I always eat whole wheat bread and cereal, but I do not eat wholegrain pasta. However, I have pasta about once a month or less. Rice is mostly brown, but if I'm making Thai curry I use regular basmati. When I'm out, I eat whole grain or brown rice if available, but if not I do not sweat it. I eat 1/2 a cup as my serving so that much white rice is not going to kill me.

As for the platitudes, I have found that a lot of people out and about ask the question, "What did you do to lose so much weight?" However, when I actually give a detailed answer to, say, the checker at the grocery store who recently asked me, they don't want to listen when you tell them you, yes, actually count calories and eat mostly whole foods and do 45 minutes of cardio every day and strength train 3x a week. And often, they say, "Well what are you doing now that you're done?" Except, I'm not done. I won't be done -- I'll never be done because this is forever, and so I say I am doing pretty much the same thing but I've added some more calories to stop my weight loss. Just about then their eyes glaze over and they stop listening or say, "I can't live on a diet for the rest of my life!" And when you say this is not a diet, they say things like "You are eating salad everyday for lunch...that is a diet! I need something I can do for the next ____ number of weeks so I can lose weight for my daughter's wedding/class reunion/fill in the blank." So I find myself using platitudes...not as simple as eat less, move more...but close, because it is really hard to explain that this is a life change not a quick fix...and a lot of people don't want a life change, they want a quick fix. We live in the ultimate "quick fix" society.

rocket pop
01-01-2009, 01:09 AM
It doesn't take in the complexitites of a lot of people's relationships with food. Sometimes I think, if only I could simplify my thoughts down to that, how much more at peace would I be!

recidivist
01-01-2009, 02:26 AM
We live in the ultimate "quick fix" society.

There's a magic pill for everything, don'tcha know? ;)

Schumeany
01-01-2009, 03:27 AM
Magic pills? I need me some of those... :D

rockinrobin
01-01-2009, 10:06 AM
I get asked ALL the time how I lost the weight. All the time. My stock one line answer is, and yes it IS just one little line, "I eat really, really well and exercise often". Yes, it's a tiny sentence, but I think that sums it up nice and neatly. There are people who are scared off right away and I OFTEN get the same type response as Schumeany does, and those who want to hear more. The ones that want to hear more details, usually get scared off pretty quickly thereafter. The thought of preparing ahead of time, counting calories, all that cooking, packing up lunches and snacks and so on, the thought of physcial activity most days of the week - they say "I could NEVER do that. I could NEVER live like that. I want to enjoy my life". At that point I usually want to SCREAM, but somehow keep it in check. I say something to the affect of, "Do you really think I'm not enjoying my life now? I LOVE the foods that I eat. Love em'. It's no hardship."

As far as why I don't eat whole grains, is because I don't (hardly) ever eat any grains. Grains for me, of any type is a real, real rarity. I don't do well with them. I overeat them. They are not satifying and they bring on too many cravings. Not even the whole wheat variety. So be it. Oy. And when people hear that one, it's always, "but I LOVE bread". And I say, "so do I. But it doesn't work for me. I LOVE it, but IT doesn't love ME."

rockinrobin
01-01-2009, 10:13 AM
Magic pills? I need me some of those... :D

Whenever I hear that one, I think of Oprah Winfrey. She's said many times, that "believe me, if there were a magic pill, I wouldv'e had it. I've got lots of money and trust me, I would have found it."

Something else comes up to me on this topic. Not a magic pill, per se', but a "secret" that I was unaware of. I was recently doing some writing (prompted by a thread here, started by junebug). Anyway I believe I wrote something like this:

The biggest secret of all, the biggest thing not one single person ever told me. The big secret I wasn't privy to was:

That I had the ability to lose the weight the whole time. The whole time! I, *me* was acutally capable of it. Who knew? I didn't. No one ever told me. Soooo glad I finally figured it out on my own.

CountingDown
01-01-2009, 11:32 AM
The biggest secret of all, the biggest thing not one single person ever told me. The big secret I wasn't privy to was:

That I had the ability to lose the weight the whole time. The whole time! I, *me* was acutally capable of it. Who knew? I didn't. No one ever told me. Soooo glad I finally figured it out on my own.

This is so true and the reason that I didn't even try for so many years. I had so many excuses, reasons why I couldn't - shouldn't even try. And society always had lots of validation of my excuses constantly flashing before me.

I have enjoyed reading this thread - there has been much good discussion here. I have little insight to add to the wisdom already shared.

Jay - I appreciate your highlighting that there should be joy on this journey. And I appreciate EVERYONE that helped me understand that it IS a journey - not a diet - that this is a change in my lifestyle - not something that I could / should do until I hit my goal. Maintenance was a whole new concept for me.

With that information in hand early on, the changes I made were very different from any previous attempt at losing weight. I gave up nothing - that is no food became taboo. Portion control and balance became my focus. This "carbaholic" needed to learn that fats (healthy fats) were important. That she needed more protein and more fiber as well. That vegetable is not a four letter word. Once I learned to balance my eating - food cravings, emotional and mindless eating became a thing of the past. Once I learned to balance my life (and exercise was an important component that was missing), the rest fell into place.

When people ask, my short answer is usually "calorie counting, exercise, and prayer". If they ask for more information, I explain about balance - that balance in everything seems to be the "key" for me. Balancing body, mind, and Spirit - balancing my eating, work, activity, respite time. The idea that I could/should take time for each of these things, that others might suffer because I was taking time from them was a difficult one to comprehend for me. I finally "got it" - that I HAD to balance my time and efforts in a way that devoted enough time to ME.

Learning balance and taking joy in each step of the journey is the new trick that this "old dog" finally learned.

midwife
01-01-2009, 12:52 PM
I get asked ALL the time how I lost the weight. All the time. My stock one line answer is, and yes it IS just one little line, "I eat really, really well and exercise often". Yes, it's a tiny sentence, but I think that sums it up nice and neatly.


That is so close to my answer "I eat super healthy most of the time and I exercise a lot." ;) Whaddya know?
I've learned to toss out this quick answer for a few reasons. 1) I think many people are casually curious and don't really want to hear the gritty details. 2) People who REALLY want to know will either press me for details and then ask specific questions or press me for details and then go into a litany of excuses. Excuses make me impatient. 3) My specifics work FOR ME but they might not work for other people anyway.

JulieJ08
01-01-2009, 12:54 PM
My usual answer is something along the lines of "I eat well and exercise." I don't usually get the excuses or the "I can't do that." I usually get some kind of nod and mmm-hmm that says, "Yeah. I knew that was the answer." More resignation than objection.

I do know one guy who keeps asking me if I'm still on a diet, because he likes to provide food (pizza, shakes, cookies). I keep telling him, I'll always be eating well, *and* I can eat anything, if I want. But it seems to go in one ear and out the other. The next time I talk to him, he'll be wanting to bring some junk food and asking me if I'm still on a diet :)

junebug41
01-01-2009, 01:03 PM
That is so close to my answer "I eat super healthy most of the time and I exercise a lot." ;) Whaddya know?
I've learned to toss out this quick answer for a few reasons. 1) I think many people are casually curious and don't really want to hear the gritty details. 2) People who REALLY want to know will either press me for details and then ask specific questions or press me for details and then go into a litany of excuses. Excuses make me impatient. 3) My specifics work FOR ME but they might not work for other people anyway.

This has been such an awesome thread!

I could not agree with you more about people not being interested in the very last detail. By giving a shorter answer I'm giving them an easy out of what they really wanted to know, which is "what diet did you use". They very much want to hear a simple answer because they want a simple solution, which at least for me wasn't really the case. Explaining my "plan" is kind of complicated and yes, excuse inducing. I scared off my fair share of interested parties this way. And to your third point, this is so true. So true. I began this journey in a very unconventional way and it took me a while to realize that my practice wouldn't work for everyone and some people probably wondered where I got my crazy hat.

JulieJ08
01-01-2009, 01:16 PM
You know, my BIL actually does want to know every last detail. At least in a way. He keeps asking me to lay out a menu plan for him. I keep brushing it off. Create his whole menu plan??? What do I know about a menu plan for an ex-marine who is probably 6'sumthin" 250+ pounds??? Who is a big meat eater (he hunts and has a deer head hanging in his garage) while I'm vegetarian??? Whose dinner recipes that I provide will just be work for my overworked sister (like I would do that to her)!!!

I didn't mean that to sound like I was mad, it's more flabbergasted :dizzy: Maybe I'm just frustrated that there isn't anything simple I can do to help him. Because I'd like to help. But the truth is most of my life went on hold while I learned how to do this and worked on it full time. Each person has to reach the point where it means *that* much to them if necessary.

junebug41
01-01-2009, 01:20 PM
But the truth is most of my life went on hold while I learned how to do this and worked on it full time. Each person has to reach the point where it means *that* much to them if necessary.

:lol: at your BIL

My life went on hold as well and you're right. You can't determine when someone else is going to be ready to do that. And do they want to hear that anyway? Everyone has to find out for themselves.

rockinrobin
01-01-2009, 02:59 PM
That is so close to my answer "I eat super healthy most of the time and I exercise a lot." ;) Whaddya know?

Adding in that "most of the tiime" part isn't a bad idea. In fact, I think I will incoporate that into my one line phrase. It still sums it up nice and neatly and lets people know that I do allow myself the occasional treat. Or perhaps I will just say, I eat really, really well 95% of the time - and exercise often. If I add in the 95% part or the most of the time, then maybe people won't think I'm SUCH a freak. Maybe then they'll only think I'm a partial freak. ;)

recidivist
01-01-2009, 04:23 PM
they say "I could NEVER do that. I could NEVER live like that. I want to enjoy my life".

That is the very reason I want to eat healthy and lose weight. I want to enjoy my life. Can't say I'm enjoying it now when I'm obese and in pain all the time.

PhotoChick
01-01-2009, 04:42 PM
I love this thread. It's all so true. And my answer is much the same as everyone elses. A lot of times I'll throw in something like "I stopped eating so much junk food." or "I started lifting weights and it made a real difference." But most of the time people really really don't want the details.

OTOH, I think I'd enjoy the challenge of creating a menu for my BIL or someone else. But I love to cook and I love to experiment with food. I think it would be fun to see if I could put together a healthy menu with reasonable calories and macros for someone else - and make it about food that they enjoyed and were capable of cooking. It would be a challenge, I think.

I wouldn't want to do it for them forever, but as a way to get them started and see what was possible ... I think it would be fun. :)

.

kaplods
01-01-2009, 05:05 PM
I think what people are really wanting (desperately) to know is how to transition from wanting to doing. How do you translate desire into action?

Of course, there really is no answer but that you do it, by doing it (Yoda's "do or do not, there is no try")

I do think that because so few people succeed, there's a lot of people who believe that there's some secret hidden path, but the fact there are thousands of paths, but to get to your destination you've got to actually be moving in the direction you want to go, not just looking at the paths and finding reasons why you can't take this one or that one.

I think that most of my life, I did look at weight loss as being set apart from other goals in my life, but I'm seeing that it really isn't. There are a lot of things in life that are difficult, goals that are easy to postpone and find reasons not to pursue. There are a lot of things people want to be, actors, athletes, musicians, doctors, writers, braver, thinner, more active, more organized ... but you don't get to become any of those things just by wanting them, you've got to keep the goal in front of you, always and move in the direction that will get you there.

A lot of people get sidetracked on all sorts of paths in life, and weight loss isn't any different. I think that helped me realize that weight loss is possible - because it isn't any different than of all the other things in life I wanted, and DID accomplish or obtain. Oh, it's definitely one of the more difficult things, as I think getting my graduate degree was a cake walk compared to weight loss, but I've never been afraid of doing difficult things. But in the past, weight loss didn't just seem difficult, it seemed impossible and torturous and frightening and intimidating - and success and failure (whether I achieved it, or saw someone else achieving it) always seemed magical rather than tied directly to what I was doing (mostly because I had unrealistic expectations as to how weight loss worked. I expected to see results on the scale immediately and more consistently than is physically possible).

recidivist
01-01-2009, 05:36 PM
I think it would be fun to see if I could put together a healthy menu with reasonable calories and macros for someone else - and make it about food that they enjoyed and were capable of cooking. It would be a challenge, I think.
This could be a good job opportunity for someone who has done it for themselves.

recidivist
01-01-2009, 05:41 PM
I do think that because so few people succeed, there's a lot of people who believe that there's some secret hidden path, (snip) but to get to your destination you've got to actually be moving in the direction you want to go

Maybe one way to respond, when asked how you did it, is to not only say "eat better, move more", but also say "jump into the shallow end first, not the deep end".

Maybe some of those who are wanting to but afraid, might be convinced if they didn't feel they had to take the high dive into the deep end when they barely know how to swim.

I like your words too though...get on the path...it doesn't matter how fast you travel, as long as you are moving in the direction you want to go. The longer you are on the path, the easier it gets (meaning you get lighter and stronger from weight loss and strength training, so it's an easier hike than when you started).

People who are afraid to even get out and walk every day. If they started with 100' the first day, and then added 100' every day, would be surprised how quickly they are able to walk three miles.

rockinrobin
01-01-2009, 06:03 PM
Ya know, I think that deep, deep down *most*, certainly not all, people really know *how* to lose weight. They know they should eat lots more of the healthy stuff and lots less of the UNhealthy stuff and do some sort of physical activity.

So perhaps when they're asking, and they probably don't even realize it, they want to know not *how* we've lost it, but *how* we found the strength, determination and perservance to do so. That would really be a more appropriate question.

Ufi
01-01-2009, 06:39 PM
Sometimes the simplest things are also the most complex, and it's hard to accept that. Take the Golden Rule: Treat others the way you want to be treated. Sounds pretty good, a straight-forward concept. But it is so hard to live by.

Basically, "take care of yourself" sums it up. Eating healthy, getting exercise, dealing with emotions and situations rather than using food to disguise or divert, etc. A simple concept. Sometimes, very hard to live by.

I do think people know, but it's so hard to admit that you're in charge of your choices and the consequences of them that it's easier to forget that you know and you can choose and to say that you "can't." Just because the choice is clear, it doesn't mean it's easy.

PhotoChick
01-01-2009, 06:59 PM
Ya know, I think that deep, deep down *most*, certainly not all, people really know *how* to lose weight. They know they should eat lots more of the healthy stuff and lots less of the UNhealthy stuff and do some sort of physical activity.I agree and disagree with this in a way.

I think most people know the concept, that's true.

But how many people have we seen come on here to 3FC and be totally clueless about WHAT is healthy and unhealthy. Someone on here tells a story about a friend of hers who had a dinner consisting of a huge salad with creamy dressing, shrimp scampi, and strawberry cake for dessert (or something like that) and then pushed back from the table and said "That was pretty healthy - I had salad, seafood, and fruit for dessert!"

What about the people who come on this board and post their daily menu asking for help and they're eating things like this: Breakfast - a waffle with lo calorie syrup. Lunch - small hamburger from McDonalds (but no Coke or fries - yay!). Snack - granola bar. Dinner - Frozen Lean Cuisine pizza. And they really truly think they're doing a good job with this and are beyond upset when they're told that this is not a healthy plan. :)

What about the people who come on the board and say "I'm cutting out ALL FAT from my diet. I'm never ever going to eat any fat again." and get all bent when some people try to explain that you NEED some fat and that healthy fat is good for you.

These are the people who, when you say "eat healthy and exercise" will say to you "Yeah, that doesn't work for me. I must have some kind of chemical imbalance (or it's in my genes to be fat, or whatever)."

Not trying to slam on any one on the board - because we've all been there in one form or another at one point or another. But ... and this is one of my big soapbox issues, really ... Americans in general are woefully, disgustingly uneducated about nutrition and food. We have no idea what a real portion size is because we're beaten over the head with the concept that "value" is what's important, so we should always upsize for $0.39. We have no idea what is REALLY healthy because 80% of the food in the grocery store is pushed on us as enhanced in some way - whether it's by adding nutrients or removing fats or whatever. Who wants a plain old apple when we can get EXTRA SMOOTH APPLE SAUCE NOW ENRICHED WITH CALCIUM!!! We are inundated every day with the idea that doing a "colon cleanse" or drinking lemon water with cayenne pepper or just buying this "As seen on TV" miracle device will solve all our health and weight problems.

And there is NO real, actual, honest to God, nutritional education anywhere to refute those concepts. "Health" class in high school or jr. high is a joke. I read a fairly reliable statistic from a college entrance survey that said over 65% of students entering college didn't know how to cook a meal - ANY MEAL, much less a healthy meal.

I dunno ... as I said, this is a real soapbox issue for me. I think most Americans DON'T know how to be healthy. And that's a huge problem when trying to lose weight. Because they concept is there: eat healthy. It's the implementation of it that most people are clueless about.

.

kaplods
01-01-2009, 07:26 PM
I used to think people, including me "know" how to lose weight, but now I'm not so sure. I'm thinking a lot of folks (I know I sure did) have very unrealistic expectations regarding what healthy habits are and how to maintain them.

I mean some of the myths and superstitions I had about weight loss were pretty ridiculous, given my education. I mean I knew better, but my brain still "went there," for example thinking that to lose any "real" weight I had to eat large salads every day (which irritated my IBS so badly, I'd be doubled over with abdominal cramps). On one level, I knew that I needed to reduce calories, not eat a specific food to lose weight, but most of my dieting experiences and what I saw most other folks do - dieting MEANT eating salads. So if I couldn't eat salads, how would I lose weight?

Of course, it's utter nonsense, but people are full of paradoxical beliefs. Even the most intelligent person can be superstitious, even as they believe the superstition to be false.

My family, for example has a superstition that washing clothes on New Years day means that you'll wash someone out of your life. I almost stopped my husband from doing a needed load of laundry because of that superstition - and I still feel a little "weird" that I chose not to. Like I'm taking a real risk of something bad happening.

I have tons of rules in my head about what fat people do and don't do, and for a long time I lived by the rules, even as I knew they were ridiculous, breaking them seemed unfathomable. For example, the most part, I never exerted myself in public if I could help it, with the exception of swimming, one of the biggest fat person taboos. I loved swimming so much that I was willing to ignore the taboo against it, but for many years, it didn't just feel like a death march to the water, wondering whether everyone was staring and either laughing or wanting to vomit, there was an added element of forbiddenness. I was breaking a rule so sacred, it was almost law. Sometimes I felt ashamed and embarassed, and sometimes I felt defiant and rebellious - almost exhilerationgly daring. Why was it never just a nonevent? Even now, where I barely think about it - I do still think about it. I still have to muster some courage (though a lot less than in the past) to do it. It's absolutely CRAZY and yet I do it.

I have so many "fat women should never....." thoughts racing in my head that it's amazing I do anything. And "dieting means...." rules that I have to consciously talk myself out of.

I think a lot of folks do let taboos (societal and of their own making), myths, superstitions, and stereotypes regarding being overweight and weight loss get in the way of action. They may have the appropriate factual knowledge, but their emotions and fears and all of the taboos and such contradict the knowledge.

It's like the feeling of having "blown" your diet after deviating even slightly from your food plan. Even though you know consciously that one slip does not make or break a weight loss plan, it often still feels like you've blown it, and that it's "useless". Those thoughts and feelings are sometimes hard to reverse even with the best self pep talk.

How do you remove, or at least manage the crazy non-true beliefs that stand in the way of progress?

I've started to (I think), but I'm not sure HOW I did it. I think it has something to do with choosing to be almost psychotic about it. Treating and talking to myself as if I were not alone inside my head. Choosing to acknowledge the dichotomy between "sane Colleen" and "crazy Colleen." Sane Colleen is getting stronger, but crazy Colleen is definitely still in here. I have to treat myself almost like a stranger or better yet, my best friend. Because the advice and compassion that I would give someone else is usually pretty on target, but crazy Colleen doesn't always want to hear it.

midwife
01-01-2009, 07:39 PM
This thread is probably one of the most brilliant threads I've read in all my years at 3FC. I keep nodding and nodding and nodding!

Success begets success, but sometimes I gotta white-knuckle through the first few painful steps of different things. Translating knowledge into action is the hard part. In fact, the actual doing is not always as hard as revving up to the doing, if that makes sense?

I agree with PhotoChick that the average American doesn't have a great background in nutrition. I could rattle off the FDA's guidelines but I sure as heck DON'T follow them in my own life. I filled out the RealAge survey very honestly and snorted at their recommendation. They recommend 6-11 daily servings of bread, grains, and pasta. I tried to imagine eating 11 servings of pasta in a day and started laughing. I know Real Age goes by the government guidelines, but those guidelines wouldn't work for me---I am a person who is reduced obese, who has cravings triggered by white flour and sugar, and who would be so stuffed with that much pasta in a day, where would I fit my veggies? Don't tell me that 11 servings of a white flour based product will improve my health, dear goverment guidelines! BTW the RealAge report told me I exercise too much too. If I sought out and followed the government guidelines, er, I would gain weight.

There is so much that a person has to over come to lose weight successfully. Both of my parents are morbidly obese. I learned to abuse food as a coping mechanism and I guess I always thought that I would have a genetic tendency to be obese. I didn't really believe that weight loss was possible, not even when I started the first time. I white-knuckled it, stepped out in total faith, and was completely dumbfounded and shell-shocked that it WORKED! My body was not doomed to obesity. I could control it.

I will be forever indebted to 3FC---the goal section showed me it was possible, the support threads showed me HOW, the weight-lifting and running threads introduced me to my inner athlete (who, me??? athletic??), and the maintainers are showing me everyday how to keep it off. This place is a goldmine for those who are ready to change. And that doesn't mean change will be immediate. Heck, look at my join date. It took me 3 years before I figured out a way to make it work for my life, and I will continue to tweak and play and change (hello, HIIT & protein shakes!).

rockinrobin
01-01-2009, 08:25 PM
Yes, yes I agree with you guys. When I said that *most*, certainly not all know how to do the weight loss thing, I should have said *some*, in fact I was thinking about changing it or adding to my post, but lo and behold I had to go and make dinner for my "real" family ;). And it was a big success by the way. I made a pureed vegetable soup, a roasted turkey breast with carrots and roasted broccoli all spiced up and yummy. But I digress.

I do find that *some* people who ask really do know how to. In fact I'm SURE of it. Then you've got a whole other group of people who really don't know the "right" way (and we all know there are MANY right ways) to do it.

There are many who say they are trying to lose weight, yet still eat at McDonald's, well I'm thinking that *most*, umm, make that *some* know that that's really not the best choice at all. They are aware of it - yet do it anyway.

And while I agree that many Americans, ya know what, maybe even most, don't know how to eat healthy, I truly believe there are more then a few that do - but don't eat healthy anyway. Knowing and doing are two totally different things. Don't I know it?

I knew all along (over 20 years) that what I was doing was wrong, not exactly sure if I knew 100% exactly what to do RIGHT, but I sure knew tons of things that I was doing totally wrong. And I did nothing to rectify it. Or certainly not enough.

JulieJ08
01-01-2009, 09:17 PM
OTOH, I think I'd enjoy the challenge of creating a menu for my BIL or someone else. But I love to cook and I love to experiment with food. I think it would be fun to see if I could put together a healthy menu with reasonable calories and macros for someone else - and make it about food that they enjoyed and were capable of cooking. It would be a challenge, I think.

I wouldn't want to do it for them forever, but as a way to get them started and see what was possible ... I think it would be fun. :)

I think it would be great fun for someone who was really going to do it. But not so much for someone who wants the results, but in the end, won't deny himself what he wants ;) I just happen to think he is all talk and sporadic effort. If he were to prove me wrong, I'd be more than happy to invest whatever time he needed from me. He's family and I'd do anything for family :). Except waste my time ;)

JulieJ08
01-01-2009, 09:20 PM
I think what people are really wanting (desperately) to know is how to transition from wanting to doing. How do you translate desire into action?

Oh gosh, that is the most fascinating thing to me. I mean, I never lacked for knowing what to do and why. Sure, I keep learning. But I have always had what I *needed.* But why did I wake up one day, and bam, no more doubt? It was done before I even started. I just knew this was the time.

kaplods
01-01-2009, 09:33 PM
It reminds me of the bible verse in which (I think it's Paul) bemoans the fact that he does not do the good he wants to do, and finds himself doing the bad he doesn't want to do (forgive the leeway with the extreme paraphasing here).

Regardless of religious beliefs, I think it illustrates how long humanity has had these struggles between desire and action. And the struggle has been a lot longer than the few thousand years documented in the Old and New Testaments.

rockinrobin
01-01-2009, 09:37 PM
Oh gosh, that is the most fascinating thing to me. I mean, I never lacked for knowing what to do and why. Sure, I keep learning. But I have always had what I *needed.* But why did I wake up one day, and bam, no more doubt? It was done before I even started. I just knew this was the time.

This is my experience as well. So odd. Because I had ZERO doubts that I would get it done this time. Zero. So odd. I simply can't explain it. It was a blessing. A true blessing. I am sure of it.

recidivist
01-01-2009, 10:12 PM
She, however, is a Devon Rex and weighs about 5 lbs.
I was going to comment on this. You have my favorite cat! I've always wanted a Devon Rex. Have you posted pics of her here?

WaterRat
01-01-2009, 10:53 PM
Wow, you leave your computer for a couple days and such interesting things happen! This is a great discussion! Though I'm late to the party I have - as usual - to put my opinion in. :)

My OB/GYN, a tall, naturally thin woman told me - without asking any of my weight loss/gain history - that all I had to do to lose weight was "cut out a couple pieces of bread a day." She had no idea - and still doesn't - what sort of eating I do, or exercise. She once handed me a bunch of papers saying "here's what you need to do to lose weight." Reprints from a bunch of articles, many contradictory. Grrrr. And then when I did lost, no one word! No recognition that I'd done anything. And to digress, since I'm about to turn 64, she sends me a letter letting me know that on the day that I turn 65, she will no longer see me as a patient because I am eligible for medicare and she doesn't see medicare patients. Mind you, I'll still be working and covered by my employer's insurance. Double grrr! I'm shopping for a new OB/GYN.....

And as for starting slowly, remember a year or more ago when the government stated that we all needed to do 60-90 minutes of exercise 5 or 6 days a week? I know people, and we probably all do, who threw up their hands and stopped doing what exercise they were doing because they "couldn't do that much exercise." There was no "ease into it" built into the government's recommendation (which, you'll notice Midwife, is contradictory to your "too much exercise" advice from RealAge :lol: ).

I know from my own many tries at losing weight that I could not change everything in my life at once. Every time I tried to change my eating, my thinking, and my exercise levels, I lasted about 10 days. When I finally found my time, or click, or whatever you want to call it, I realized that if I eased into it, changed one aspect and when I was good with that, added another. I lost 30 lbs before I ever added deliberate exercise, but by then I was comfortable with my food changes, they were part of my life. I was ready to add another change.

And for all of you trying to help your cats lose weight, you have my sympathy. Dogs are easier. For one thing, most dogs eat when you feed them, as opposed to cats (or at least most of the ones I've had) eat a little now, a little later, grazing all day. The cats I have now - 2 siamese - are both normal weight. One is 18 months old, the other 11. The younger one is responsible for the older one getting more exercise. She pushes the older cat to play with her, and often the game is chase - from one end of the house to the other, up the stairs, down the stairs, over the furniture.

Anyway, thanks for the interesting, thought provoking reading. You all have great insight into this journey we're on. I'm so happy to have a place to discuss all this stuff - as opposed to real life where most people don't want to hear it.

PhotoChick
01-01-2009, 10:56 PM
This is my experience as well. So odd. Because I had ZERO doubts that I would get it done this time. Zero. So odd. I simply can't explain it.Same here. I've always known. I've always done the research and looked things up and loved to cook and ... been interested in nutrition and all of that.

But 18 months or so ago it just ... happened. I started doing it. And I kept doing it. And then I got better at it. I don't know what switch flipped, but it did, and I'm awfully glad.

.

Glory87
01-01-2009, 11:06 PM
This is my experience as well. So odd. Because I had ZERO doubts that I would get it done this time. Zero. So odd. I simply can't explain it. It was a blessing. A true blessing. I am sure of it.

Same for me, I had zero doubts this time. I have described it a few times as best as I can put it into words - I was electrified with purpose.

What a great thread :) I have agreed with so much of what you guys have written!

I agree that weight loss is both simple and complex. I have often said that losing this weight was the easiest and the hardest thing I have ever done - at the same time.

I think almost everyone knows that an apple is a good snack. It's actually having a nice, crisp, fresh apple handy when you need a snack that's the tricky part (in my experience). Simple...yet hard.

I've been kinda absent from the boards (and my strict maintenance lifestyle) since my step dad died before Thanksgiving. I just got back from another trip to Texas (helloooo pralines) and my frig/cupboards are stocked with my "usuals" - it's back to normal eating-wise around here. My jeans still fit :)

PS - I am a 90% whole grain/brown rice person. I always try to do the best I can - if a "healthier" choice is available, I go for it. If not, well, a little white rice in a california roll is not why I was an overweight person.

I nominate this as the best thread for 2008...and 2009! heh :)

Ufi
01-01-2009, 11:11 PM
OK, I'll amend what I said to be that many people know or have the ability to learn but choose not to.

Ookpik
01-02-2009, 12:52 AM
Add me to the list of those who had an "a-ha" moment when it comes to weight loss, and suddenly things just seemed to fall into place. I finally "got" that if I wanted to lose weight, I had to change my habits. I always think of what Einstein said (I don't know the exact quote so I'm not even going to try) about doing the exact same thing every day and expecting different results.

I also "got" that exercise was going to be hard, but I had to keep at it (I'd give up in the past) and it would get easier in time...which then meant that it was time to find something more challenging! I don't get to the point that I feel like I'm having a heart attack, but I do realize that I have to get out of the comfort zone and challenge my body.

I also "got" that I was going to have to change my eating habits, while still allowing myself treats. People ask me all the time how I lost weight, and I do mention that I allow treats once in a while, and stress that a treat is not an every day thing.

I think most people logically know that to lose weight you need to consume less calories and exercise more, but it is hard to put into practice. People sometimes "want" to believe things and convince themselves that something can be true, which is the reason that easy weight loss "solutions" sell so well. I was talking to a co-worker of mine who was going on and on about how she couldn't lose weight, so I tried gently telling her that a lot of the snacks she chooses are high in calories. She mentioned that she doesn't eat like that at home. :?: I wondered what difference it made where you ate it, the main thing is that you ate it. I'm not talking about someone who treats herself occasionally to this snack food, but someone who eats it (and other high-calorie snacks) quite often. To me that's like someone only counting the beers they drink at a bar during the course of an evening, and discounting the ones they drink at home beforehand before getting behind the wheel of car. What difference does it make if you drank ten beers at one, two, or three different places in one evening?

I try to keep my mouth shut about weight loss at work. I know a lot of people say they want to lose weight, but for some reason or other, may not be ready to try. I'm not being insulting to anyone...I was 35 when I had this "a-ha" moment, so I was like this too. I tried to lose weight before, but for some reason, I was able to stick to this new way of life a lot longer than in the past (almost two years now) and I don't feel like I'm on a diet, I just feel like I'm living life differently. And as far as "enjoying life" too much to give up foods they like, I used to think like this too...but life is so much more enjoyable now, because unlike three years ago, food isn't the only thing in life that gives me pleasure.

Schumeany
01-02-2009, 02:49 AM
I lost +-50 pounds a little over ten years ago, and maintained the same Size I currently am (Size 4) for the four years prior to my first child being born...but it was a lot harder work last time, because I did not have as much great information as I had this time around...no 3FC. I ate way too few calories, worked out too hard, got too thin for a while, my skin was bad, I got anemic, my nutrition was pretty bad, etc. While I got better at the eating and I learned to regulate my exercise better and allowed myself to go from a Size 0/2 with 17% body fat to a Size 4 with a little over 19% body fat, so that, for most of the maintenance period, I was fairly healthy, the "loss" part of the process was pretty much **** on earth.

So for the last few years, I kept remembering that process and thinking there was NO FREAKIN' WAY that with three small children now, and a lot more responsibilities than I had back then, that I could work out two hours a day and eat 1200 calories or less and deal with feeling tired all the time and having bad skin, etc. -- I just couldn't face it. So I did pretty much nothing about it...and then one day a lightening bolt hit me, and I suddenly said, well then DON'T work out two hours a day and don't only eat 1200 calories...work out MORE than you do now and eat A LOT less (Hey, my mantra is back...eat less, move more :))...and so I started by walking and journaling my food, and in my first month I lost only 3 pounds, but I lost, and then I spent the next month pushing WAY to hard, because that is who I am I think, and I lost 15 pounds, but it sucked rocks and I almost quit, but the next month I found my happy medium and a couple of weeks later I found 3FC...and here I am.

It was a journey, and I guess I did "know" what to do before I started it, but it didn't mean I really knew. To really know, I apparently had to walk the path for a while first...and my previous experience made it really hard to get on the path in the first place. And we ALL have past experiences, dieting myths we believe and previous failed diets, etc. but you have to give that history up, or put it behind you at least, or I don't think success is possible.

Edit: Recidivist -- I just noticed your post about my Devon. I'll see if I can dig up some pictures of her to post.

TheMrs
01-02-2009, 03:34 AM
"eat food, not too much, mostly plants"



People actually *say* this?! :crazy:

HVEECK
01-02-2009, 04:37 AM
I love the devon rex!! they are beautiful! I have 3 sphynx cats. Also known as hairless cats. they are WONDERFUL!! i have a pic on my profile and some on my blog. two are a healthy weight, but one has some over eating issues ;)
I think this thread should be given the best thread award!! I dont have much to add that hasn't already been said. Just that i am thankful every day that i finally "got it" and i also JUST KNOW somehow that i will reach my goal this year, no if, ands or buts about it. And I cant explain how or why. Just glad that it happened. Thank you all for such wonderful insight.

dominodreams
01-02-2009, 11:47 AM
This is such a great thread because it's one of my biggest gripes.

I have a good friend who's got everything under control. She has no problem with will power, she has complete self-motivation to do anything she wants and totally doesn't understand what it's like to not be able to get myself out of bed in the morning sometimes. She has no idea what it's like to be completely depressed (clinically). I mentioned the other day that I'm trying to lose weight and her response was to tell me to eat more natural foods because all that work makes me want to cook smaller amounts. And when I told her I wanted to work out more she said "30 minutes a day, 3 days a week" and when told her I know what I'm supposed to do for exercise her response was "then do it"... I couldn't even respond.

Some of us have very basic, huge obstacles to overcome. Depression is a huge obstacle to losing weight and being healthy. It's a long road to a lifestyle change, it's not like I can just get up one morning and completely overhaul my life in one fell swoop. Yea, we know what we're supposed to do to lose weight - we all get weight loss tips shoved down our throats every. single. day. It's like, you're not telling me anything I didn't already know.

JulieJ08
01-02-2009, 12:48 PM
People actually *say* this?! :crazy:

Re: Eat food, mostly plants, not too much -

You probably need a little context if you've never heard it before. The "Eat food" part has to do with avoiding processed, convenience foods and "food products" - like artificial sweeteners, things like the margarine that was all the rage before trans fats were outed, nonfat everything with the fat replaced by sugar and weird thickeners, and so on. In other words, just eat "real" food, stuff your great-great grandmother would have recognized not been mystified by.

"mostly plants" and "not too much" are probably more self-explanatory.

PhotoChick
01-02-2009, 03:08 PM
Re: Eat food, mostly plants, not too much -

You probably need a little context if you've never heard it before.

Also, one of the lead in sentences to Michael Pollan's book In Defense of Food. :) It's been quoted a lot in a lot of news stories, magazines, reviews, etc. So it's not just a random saying ... it actually has a literary context that it's drawn from.

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PhotoChick
01-02-2009, 03:13 PM
And when I told her I wanted to work out more she said "30 minutes a day, 3 days a week" and when told her I know what I'm supposed to do for exercise her response was "then do it"... I couldn't even respond.

Some of us have very basic, huge obstacles to overcome. Depression is a huge obstacle to losing weight and being healthy. [...] It's like, you're not telling me anything I didn't already know.I totally understand and sympathize with this, but I also want to point it out from the other side. My husband is clinically depressed and has been most of his adult life. He takes meds for it, but as I'm sure you know, there are still obstacles to face.

After a while, though, as the person on the other end, it's gets really frustrating and tiring and ultimately annoying hearing your friend or spouse say "I want to work out more" or "I want to lose weight" and KNOW that they know what they should be doing and yet they're not doing it. After a while there truly is nothing else you can say to them except ... well, then just do it.

And yeah, it might come across a little .. harsh maybe? But I suspect there might be an element of frustration there on the other end. I know when I say things like that, it's almost always borne from months (or even years) of listening to my husband talk and talk and talk about doing something but never doing it. And finally it's just "do it or don't do it but for god's sake shut up about it." ;)

.

dominodreams
01-02-2009, 06:00 PM
And yeah, it might come across a little .. harsh maybe? But I suspect there might be an element of frustration there on the other end. I know when I say things like that, it's almost always borne from months (or even years) of listening to my husband talk and talk and talk about doing something but never doing it. And finally it's just "do it or don't do it but for god's sake shut up about it." ;)

.

Personally, I know what you mean about wanting someone to... what's the phrase? "Sh** or get off the pot"

The thing that bothered me this time was that I can't remember the last time I talked to her about wanting to exercise. I take her advice/tips about healthy eating (she recommended eating oatmeal, which I tried for awhile but the oatmeal was too bland, even with brown sugar), but I've never before talked to her about working out - I either did it or I didn't. So this was a one-time thing and that was her reaction.

But yea, if I complained about wanting to work out every time I talked to her, I wouldn't blame her for telling me to shut up and do it. I try not to beat dead horses.

JulieJ08
01-02-2009, 06:13 PM
That's why I never talked to anyone about wanting to lose weight. Until I was *doing* it. Even then, I just let people notice on their own.

PhotoChick
01-02-2009, 08:20 PM
But yea, if I complained about wanting to work out every time I talked to her, I wouldn't blame her for telling me to shut up and do it. I try not to beat dead horses.Gotcha. :)

BTW, about the oatmeal - don't know if you're interested in trying it again, but I really dislike sweet things in the mornings. I eat my oatmeal with some shredded sharp cheddar, salt, pepper, and sometimes a dash of hot sauce. It's really yummy that way. :)

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Shannon in ATL
01-02-2009, 10:35 PM
I went to a Christmas party at my aunt's house a couple of weeks ago and I hadn't seen her since last Christmas. She has been struggling with her weight for years - actually got a tummy tuck a few years ago and then gained it all back and more... I was told at my highest weight that I looked like her - I realize now that my actual build and bone structure is nothing like hers, I was just covering mine up... :)

She looked at me and said "you look great, you are half the size you were, how did you do it?" I said "Changed my diet, exercise a lot". Her answer "no, really, how did you do it?" My response again "Changed my diet, exercise a lot". It went back and forth two more times with the same question and answer. I don't know what other answer she was looking for. I added in some variations - eat less junk food, exercise five - six days per week, she still never really accepted it. Then, for the rest of the party she made comments about wanting to lose weight, wanting to look like Shan, etc. Before I left I told her that she had to stop talking about it and actually do it, that I had heard her talk about making changes for years with no follow through. That it was hard to make the changes that were needed, but talking about it wasn't going to do it. I think I hurt her feelings. By that point I was feeling pretty frustrated about her 'no, really, what else did you do?' mantra all evening. I guess she was looking for the previously mentioned magic pill answer from me! :)

recidivist
01-02-2009, 11:20 PM
Gotcha. :)

BTW, about the oatmeal - don't know if you're interested in trying it again, but I really dislike sweet things in the mornings. I eat my oatmeal with some shredded sharp cheddar, salt, pepper, and sometimes a dash of hot sauce. It's really yummy that way. :)

.
That sounds good. I'll have to try that. I was going to suggest if she likes it sweet, she should add some spices like cinnamon, or pumpkin pie spice. I'm like you, and don't want the sweet flavor. I use a tsp of butter and a dash of salt.

JulieJ08
01-02-2009, 11:25 PM
It's funny, I just never seem to hear that magic pill thing from people. They don't like that I did it just with eating better and exercising, because that sounds hard, but they believe it.

rockinrobin
01-02-2009, 11:43 PM
Of the loads of people who ask how I lost the weight, they fall into a couple of categories.

The ones that start off with, "I bet you workout a real lot" or something like that. Meaning that they think it's exercise that they're lacking and could never exercise "as much as Robin does". It is easier for them to accept that, then to think that they're doing the "food" part wrong.

On the other hand, many people will ask how I lost the weight and start off with, "I bet you starve yoursefl". They're the ones who would prefer to think that exercise is not as important a factor and think, "Well Robin just doesn't eat, of course I could lose weight if I would just starve myself as well. But who wants to do that?"

Then of course there's the ones who say neither. Not sure what they're thinking. They just may very well be the ones hoping that there was a magical pill that did it.

gymlee
01-03-2009, 03:33 AM
Oh gosh, that is the most fascinating thing to me. I mean, I never lacked for knowing what to do and why. Sure, I keep learning. But I have always had what I *needed.* But why did I wake up one day, and bam, no more doubt? It was done before I even started. I just knew this was the time.

It's interesting you mention that because for me in my HEAD I have no doubt whatsoever that this CAN be done, that I can lose the weight (especially now that my endo and I are working towards getting my hormones balance which is half the battle with my weight loss since my excessive weight gain was partially due to hormonal imbalances), but the problem for me is letting go of the doubts and fears within my heart. For some reason I have this disconnect between knowing and believing in my heart what I do in my head. What is "known" in the head is what lacks in the heart and vice versa. But I think the important thing for me this time around is that I recognize it and I'm working to mend that disconnect as I go along this journey because I think if I can constantly show myself whatever it is I believe or know in my head, that one day I'll actually start to see it with my heart and I'll believe it in my heart or I'll be able to start letting go of whatever I need to (the doubt the fear) and just maybe I'll finally have a head and heart that co-exists in harmony. I'll be honest that everday that this is scary for me emotionally because of what the fat has meant for all of these years, but I believe that if I can change my thought patterns and reinforce the good that I will begin to see it in my heart. I guess it's the principle of the laws of attraction discussed in the documentary "The Secret" and the book "You can heal your life" by Louise L. Hay that basically you attract the experiences in your life by what you think and your positive or negative thought processes. When I have concentrated on this principle it had worked in the past for me, so I'm just hoping that it can do it this time around too.

Hermit Girl
01-03-2009, 11:12 AM
I read something the other day that made me laugh in it's sheer truthfulness - something about how Americans were the most researched, studied, and informed about food and yet we enjoy it the least. How about we throw in still another four-word one-liner :
" Eat Less ~Enjoy More ! "

Great thread. I'm just waiting for that moment where my brain will grab hold of resolution, like many of you describe happening. I think there is just a sheer film of residual doubt, from old and worn-out thinking patterns, but at this point, I feel that any moment that shift will take place, and I will be 'electrified with purpose'. Thanks everyone !

kaplods
01-03-2009, 01:12 PM
One of the things that I think got me started down this finally successful weight loss path is realizing that this wasn't an all or nothing endeavor. I think really we've been conditioned to believe that only getting off every ounce of weight "counts" at all (not only for vanity, but for health too). That if you've got 250 lbs to lose (or even 50) that there's no reason to lose "just" 10 lbs. So people think I can't see myself losing the ___ number of lbs. that I "need" to, so why bother starting.

So, if you can't see yourself losing x lbs, can you see yourself losing 10? If not, how about five? Two?

It was really something my neurologist said (although I'd also been reading it in magazines) that studies were showing that even a reduction in body weight by only 10% resulted in significant health improvements. I'd never had a doctor ever suggest to me that I only try to lose part of the weight I had to lose.

The big picture is intimidating, and it isn't often suggested that a person not worry about the weight they can't see themselves losing, but only start with the weight that they're confident they can conquer. Heck even if it is only 5 lbs out of the fifty - maintain that 5 until you think you can go for 10. But 9 times out of 10, I think that once a person reaches the "easily doable" goal, the more likely they'll be ready to keep going.

I think this really does apply to everyone. Now everyone will have a different number in mind of what they're confident they can achieve. Some people may have no doubt, from the beginning that they can reach their goal weight. Those were are less optimistic can definitely find a number they can feel confident about (who doesn't think they can lose one lb and maintain it?)

That may be my best advice to anyone in the future. Can you lose one lb and maintain it?

No doubt the answer would be "what good would losing one lb do?"

"It gets you halfway to 2 lbs"


"One foot in front of the other..."

JulieJ08
01-03-2009, 01:31 PM
But I think the important thing for me this time around is that I recognize it and I'm working to mend that disconnect as I go along this journey because I think if I can constantly show myself whatever it is I believe or know in my head, that one day I'll actually start to see it with my heart and I'll believe it in my heart or I'll be able to start letting go of whatever I need to (the doubt the fear) and just maybe I'll finally have a head and heart that co-exists in harmony.

I know what you're saying here. Sometimes I think you have to choose to do the "act as if" thing, and trust that in time your heart will catch up. I've had "faith" and "grace" on my mind a lot lately, and I think it applies here. Not as religious concepts, but as spiritual concepts. I'm beginning to have faith that if I make certain choices, I will get what I'm supposed to get. That it's not always for me to try to *achieve* A, B or C - It's for me to put myself on the road. That there are some things you receive, not achieve.

JulieJ08
01-03-2009, 01:32 PM
How about we throw in still another four-word one-liner :
" Eat Less ~Enjoy More ! "

Excellent modification :)

gymlee
01-03-2009, 07:30 PM
I know what you're saying here. Sometimes I think you have to choose to do the "act as if" thing, and trust that in time your heart will catch up. I've had "faith" and "grace" on my mind a lot lately, and I think it applies here. Not as religious concepts, but as spiritual concepts. I'm beginning to have faith that if I make certain choices, I will get what I'm supposed to get. That it's not always for me to try to *achieve* A, B or C - It's for me to put myself on the road. That there are some things you receive, not achieve.

Good point Julie! I think for some people losing the weight is a very spiritual thing since to me the spirit and emotion are great players in what leads people to put on weight and then also in their weight loss journey. I also believe they work in tandem with your attitude, which I believe is everything when you are to work towards your goals you have in life, whether it's weight related or not. It's interesting how you mention things you receive rather than achieving because I once read a quote that said "Work on being and not having, for with what you are, you will have." I think that sums up your idea pretty well because if you are full of faith and grace and belief in yourself for what you aim to achieve then you will eventually get there and achieve it because of who are you and what you believe and not to worry too much about the achievement itself. Or at least thats my take on it.

Lovely
01-03-2009, 08:20 PM
Boy this thread has been quite an exciting read!

This is my experience as well. So odd. Because I had ZERO doubts that I would get it done this time. Zero. So odd.

This is odd. Because this is exactly how I felt when I began that April day seemingly a lifetime ago.

It was if I had finally made a decision. And once I made the decision that was it. There was no more option. There still isn't an option. It's one direction (even if there are a few pitstops along the way).

There's that saying "hindsight is 20/20", but this is the one time in my life I feel I can see 20/20 going into the future. I not only see it, but I know it. Down to my core.

kaplods
01-03-2009, 08:48 PM
I do love this discussion. I think we all are on different roads, some of us the path is winding or even a bit backtracking, some of us are on the straight arrow's path. Some of us find the roads we have chosen or were forced to take to be more or less rockier than others, with varying degrees of obstacles in our way. Some of us are traveling at, above, or below the "average" speed limit (whatever that is, and since it's never really posted, none of us know what it its, anyway). Some of us have different destinations in mind, and some of us share fairly similar goals.

What I love about 3FC isn't that we're on a shared journey per se (because some of our journeys are very, very different from one anothers'), but what IS important is that we're all fellow travelers, and there's a kinship in that, that is hard to define, but very precious to me, nonetheless.

recidivist
01-03-2009, 08:48 PM
It was if I had finally made a decision. And once I made the decision that was it. There was no more option. There still isn't an option. (snip) I not only see it, but I know it. Down to my core.

I wish I could be this positive, but this is exactly how I felt three years ago when I lost 70 lbs and kept it off almost a year. This time I will have to be on maintenance at least 3-5 years before I believe I'm really going to stick with it.

Lovely
01-03-2009, 08:57 PM
What I love about 3FC isn't that we're on a shared journey per se (because some of our journeys are very, very different from one anothers'), but what IS important is that we're all fellow travelers, and there's a kinship in that, that is hard to define, but very precious to me, nonetheless.

/signed.

Fellow travelers. I like that. :) I'll have to wave out of the back of my car and see how many fellow travelers wave back! :wave:

rockinrobin
01-04-2009, 07:47 AM
It was if I had finally made a decision. And once I made the decision that was it. There was no more option. There still isn't an option. It's one direction (even if there are a few pitstops along the way).

There's that saying "hindsight is 20/20", but this is the one time in my life I feel I can see 20/20 going into the future. I not only see it, but I know it. Down to my core.

OMG. That's also EXACTLY what I say. I've even said it here, dozens of time.
I made the decision to lose the weight - once and for all. Just realized that I didn't have to be fat if I didn't want to be. And I decided that I was going to lose the weight (and keep it off). And I was relieved. I was excited and relieved. Because I knew, having made that decision that the end of my misery was nearing. I had never felt that way before about it. Not even close.

kaplods
01-04-2009, 01:42 PM
I don't think that this time for me, started out with the kind of confidence that I had in earlier attemps. Every time was the "last time," and determination (or was it maybe arrogance), actually worked against me.

I've always done well in everything I tried, except weight loss. I was stumped as to how graduate school and working several jobs were easy compared to weight loss. I just didn't understand why determination wasn't working in weight loss, why wasn't it like everything else in my life.

I think what first gave me a glimmer of hope was accidentally losing about 20 lbs after having to quit my job for health issues and using a CPAP at night for sleep apnea (the pulmonologist said I might lose some weight without trying just by getting better sleep - I don't know if it was the better sleep or not eating out of the vending machine at work that was responsible - I think both).

I have never, never, never lost weight accidentally before. I think it made me realize that small changes could make big differences. It took another three years after the accidental weight losss to find a food plan that works for me. If anything, I have a lot less motivation and determination than ever before, and it shows in my weight loss. It's been slow and sporadic (but I haven't backtracked more than a few pounds of normal fluctuation). I think for me, I decided that I might not be able to lose much more weight than I have already, but I could keep off what I have lost.

This year, I want to put more focus onto weight loss to get off more than the 40 lbs that I lost last year - or at least match last year's 40 lbs.

It is interesting, I think that even the attitudes of those being successful at weight loss are different. There are those who needed confidence for it to work, and there are others like me who needed humility. There are those who needed determination, and others who like me had to learn to work smarter, not harder (Determination often got me into eating disordered and unsustainable habits).

It really is a wonder that there are so few researchers trying to study the differences between overweight dieters, instead of trying to find a one-size-fits-all program that works for everyone. I think, like headaches, overweight isn't a symptom of one disorder (physical, mental, emotional, or social), but of several. And that treatments that work on all dieters are going to be as impossible as treatments that are effective (and beneficial, not just putting a bandaid over a gaping chest wound) for all headaches (whether caused by migraines or brain tumor? Not likely).

rockinrobin
01-04-2009, 05:30 PM
Every time was the "last time," and determination (or was it maybe arrogance), actually worked against me.

From dictionary.com:

ar⋅ro⋅gance   /ˈærəgəns/ [ar-uh-guhns] –noun

offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride.


I really can't say that I heard arrogance in anyone who posted (myself included) that they were CERTAIN in the fact that they were going to lose the weight "this time". I'm sorry if it came off that way. Like I said, it's really something that was hard to explain.

kaplods
01-04-2009, 05:38 PM
I was only speaking of MY arrogance. I wasn't ascribing the state to anyone but myself. And I meant it, as in cockiness or overconfidence- the pride that comes before a fall, so to speak - And again only talking about myself, not anyone else.

I was more pointing out how people's weight loss experience can be VERY different, and the very thing that can keep someone from success, may be someone else's secret to success.

recidivist
01-04-2009, 05:44 PM
I was only speaking of MY arrogance. I wasn't ascribing the state to anyone but myself. And I meant it, as in cockiness or overconfidence- the pride that comes before a fall, so to speak - And again only talking about myself, not anyone else.

I was more pointing out how people's weight loss experience can be VERY different, and the very thing that can keep someone from success, may be someone else's secret to success.

I agree with Kaplods...that's exactly how I felt last time. I was so overjoyed at my new body and health I thought I will NEVER gain the weight back again. But I did. My overconfidence was just a state of mind...not reality. And maybe it was the overconfidence or cockiness that defeated me...because I stopped being so wary.

rockinrobin
01-04-2009, 06:01 PM
I was only speaking of MY arrogance. I wasn't ascribing the state to anyone but myself. And I meant it, as in cockiness or overconfidence- the pride that comes before a fall, so to speak - And again only talking about myself, not anyone else.

I was more pointing out how people's weight loss experience can be VERY different, and the very thing that can keep someone from success, may be someone else's secret to success.

I understand what you're saying. I just wanted to apologize if it came off to any one in that way (the sense of superiority or self importance), and therefore was offensive, as that was not my intention.

kaplods
01-04-2009, 06:24 PM
I understand what you're saying. I just wanted to apologize if it came off to any one in that way (the sense of superiority or self importance), and therefore was offensive, as that was not my intention.

Thank for the concern, but I definitely didn't get that from your post or anyone else's. That's why this thread has been so fun, there's been little to no judgement on what works for one person, that would have had the exact opposite effect for someone else.

So often on other boards, and in reality I get this vibe from some folks of "you're doing it WRONG because you're not doing it the way I did it."

CountingDown
01-04-2009, 06:52 PM
Colleen, I know where you are coming from. It amazes me how many 3FC are VERY successful in other areas of their lives. Weight loss was the only real area in my life where I felt like a failure.

I finally realized that I had to make it a priority and devote time and attention to it - to treat it like any other "project" in my life. Plan, execute, evaluate, repeat.

rockinrobin
01-04-2009, 07:13 PM
I finally realized that I had to make it a priority and devote time and attention to it - to treat it like any other "project" in my life. Plan, execute, evaluate, repeat.

:yes::yes::yes:

Exactly. I had to give it my ALL. Treat it like my very life depended on it. And ya know what? Probably because as I was getting older & more frightened of health issues cropping up - I realized that my life DID depend on it.

Tonia
01-04-2009, 07:48 PM
I have been keeping up with this thread over the last few days and have learned a few things...well, honestly, I learn a lot from the site in general but it is nice to see the 'conversation' going on between those that have lost weight and maintained that weight loss.

I was one of those people that thought I could just eat what I have been eating, just less. I appreciate the candid response here, though (not that anyone was talking to me, but I appreciated it anyway ;) ) - I cannot simply eat less! I have to totally change the way I am eating.

Funny, I am okay with that. I am 40 yo and currently have no health issues other than being about 70-80 pounds overweight (depending on which 'normal' weight scale you use). I am, however, tired. Really, really tired.

I love the advice some of you give - I won't name you 'cause I will forget someone but please don't stop. I know it can be frustrating to listen to all of our excuses for not doing what we know we need to do but don't give up on us! You are all VERY inspiring - even though some of you are more modest than others!

Also, I love, love what countingdown said: plan, execute, evaluate, repeat... if you don't mind, that will be my new mantra.

Bring it. I'm ready.

kaplods
01-04-2009, 07:58 PM
The only way I've ever been successful before (not counting this attempt) is to make weight loss pretty much not only my top priority, but my only priority. Everything else had to go in the toilet for me to lose weight, and sacrificing everything was just too high a price to pay. Eventually, I would get sick of sacrifice. I didn't necessarily want it all, but I at least wanted some of everything life had to offer - family, friends, education, career - having to give nearly all of it up, in order to lose weight was just too much.

On low carb eating, I don't have to sacrifice everything else. I can control hunger to a reasonable level. I've been stubborn and wanting to prove to myself that I can occasionally have high carb foods, but I'm coming to terms with the fact that I really can't - not if I want to be able to have a balanced life. I can either eat a lower carb diet, and be able to have the energy for other things, or I can eat a high carb diet and constantly be battling with food for domination of my life (where either eating or not eating is consuming all of my time and effort).

I did have to learn to work smarter, not harder - but darn it bad habits, really do die hard. But I'm learning, and I will get there, eventually.

sidhe
01-04-2009, 09:03 PM
I just wanted to say thank you, everyone, for having this discussion. I've been keeping track since it began, and everyone has really given me a lot to think about. This thread definitely deserves a "Best Of" award. Please know that you've offered so much, thank you!

TheTinGirl
01-05-2009, 02:06 AM
I just wanted to share my...kick in the pants I guess? When I got out of high school I was at my highest weight, and I'll say it...360 pounds or more. I was so afraid to see the scale hit 400 that I stopped weighing myself. I had tried everything..atkins, weight watchers, south beach...over and over.

Then I fell for this boy...and pop 80 plus pounds gone. o_o! It was just because I was going to his place after work everyday, going out and doing stuff...But then as the 'puppy love' began to fade I got lazy again and maintained. Now my kick in the pants is my pancreantitis attack in March, caused by triglycerides. Because I'm stubborn I was within two hours of my life...the hospital didn't even give me a room cause they didn't think I'd make it. My blood sugar was also around 900...at 22...actually on my 22nd birthday.

I think everyone has to have THAT kick in the pants for themselves you know? Over the holidays were HORRIBLE for me. I mean absolutely, but the fact that I'm getting right back into it? It's all from that kick in the pants in March. And of course the boy. ;) Not to mention the upcoming wedding. I think people just need to find what's important to them, you know? Because all of us are so different...So my seven words? 'Improving my life by bettering my health.' :)

Hermit Girl
01-05-2009, 10:27 AM
One of the things that I think got me started down this finally successful weight loss path is realizing that this wasn't an all or nothing endeavor...

The big picture is intimidating, and it isn't often suggested that a person not worry about the weight they can't see themselves losing, but only start with the weight that they're confident they can conquer. Heck even if it is only 5 lbs out of the fifty - maintain that 5 until you think you can go for 10. But 9 times out of 10, I think that once a person reaches the "easily doable" goal, the more likely they'll be ready to keep going.

Well, in theory, it could be a five pound goal all the time? Lose five. No doubt after that, you'll want to lose another five. Just thinking in five pounds the whole time, not fifty, is difficult. I think this is what I'm going to do. This way, going for one pound has so much more satisfaction, and easier to give up that bar of chocolate, or bag of chips. :carrot:

I wish I could be this positive, but this is exactly how I felt three years ago when I lost 70 lbs and kept it off almost a year. This time I will have to be on maintenance at least 3-5 years before I believe I'm really going to stick with it.Me too, when I lost 25 pounds this time three years ago, was on top of the world, but today I'm five pounds heavier than when I started then.

Neurologically thinking, I am more curious as to how our Newly Electrified Purpose just slowly evaporates without noticing, our new learned insights and success skills just drift back to the long term behaviors, in a memory bank of association with the heavier lifestyle. I happen to think a lot of association with our Old Selves has to be closely examined, because it *things, environments, even relationships.... stays there when we change, beckoning us without our conscious knowlege of it. I know that sounds pretty abstract. (I'm reading a book called "Evolve Your Brain") Just thought I'd throw it out there.

kittycat40
01-05-2009, 11:16 AM
I second making this thread a Best Of 3fc!

Thx everyone. :)

boomer in paradise
01-05-2009, 01:02 PM
Neurologically thinking, I am more curious as to how our Newly Electrified Purpose just slowly evaporates without noticing, our new learned insights and success skills just drift back to the long term behaviors, in a memory bank of association with the heavier lifestyle. I happen to think a lot of association with our Old Selves has to be closely examined, because it *things, environments, even relationships.... stays there when we change, beckoning us without our conscious knowlege of it. I know that sounds pretty abstract. (I'm reading a book called "Evolve Your Brain") Just thought I'd throw it out there.[/QUOTE]

I rarely post, so I hope I`ve done the quotation thing correctly.

Yes, this "drift" is befuddling. I think it probably happens one tiny choice at a time, much as sometimes happens as we get on track one tiny choice at a time. But when you are there, either ON or OFF, it feels sudden.

I have "clicked" as Robin and others have talked about, but I have also "unclicked". I think it might be a perception that is actually an accumulation of thoughts and choices. Does this make sense??

I too, am grateful and impressed by this thread.

Thank you all.

JulieJ08
01-05-2009, 01:44 PM
I think one weapon against the drift is just to be aware of it, and have a structure in place to address it. It might be a monthly re-evaluation, maybe even quarterly, maybe weekly. Whatever it is you need. It might be primarily a numbers review, it might be primarily a psychological review, again whatever works for an individual. You might do it alone, you might have an appointment with a friend, group or therapist. Whatever, but put it in writing, make it self-perpetuating, not dependent on you remembering or feeling like it. Make it the same priority as getting Paps and mammos and teeth cleanings.

Schumeany
01-05-2009, 02:39 PM
My re-evaluation is daily. I read on the Mayo Clinic site that one of the number one things that a majority of long term maintainers had in common was that they weighed themselves EVERY day...as part of their morning routine. No ability to have weight "creep" when you see it daily on the scale. So I have a small chart on the back of my toilet and a pen, and every day I put a dot on the chart. It takes zero extra time, and I am ON TOP of my weight every day -- not crazy on top of it. I don't sweat the three pound swings over the course of a month. But I do have a "five pound up" red line --and actually a "five pound down" red line (...a different issue relating to a tendency of mine to think I might look better if I was "just a little" thinner.), with my maintenance weight in the middle -- currently that weight appears to be 135 -- so, in essence, staying in the 130s is my acceptable maintenance range. If I approach my bottom or top "red lines" I will alter my behavior for a couple of weeks, and Presto! all fixed -- that is a WHOLE lot better than having to spend another six months doing it ever again in my life.

dominodreams
01-05-2009, 03:51 PM
Gotcha. :)

BTW, about the oatmeal - don't know if you're interested in trying it again, but I really dislike sweet things in the mornings. I eat my oatmeal with some shredded sharp cheddar, salt, pepper, and sometimes a dash of hot sauce. It's really yummy that way. :)

.

That's a fantastic idea! I looooove cheese! Personally, I'd much rather have eggs with cheese and ketchup or salsa than a bowl of sweetened cereal. I'll have to try that, thanks!

I used to love making rice for a fridge-staple (you know, when you're hungry and just want to nuke something, you have a container of rice to heat up!). I'd crack an egg over a bowl of rice (poke the yolk so it doesn't explode!) and microwave it with some cheese until the egg was cooked. Delicious! I wonder if oatmeal would be good with egg whites....... ;)

kuhljeanie
01-05-2009, 03:55 PM
what a fabulous thread!

there are so many crucial issues here. hats off to colleen for articulating/identifying that what a lot of people are asking for when they ask "how did you do it? no, really?" is "how did you make the transition from thinking and wanting to doing and being?"

the answers are equally interesting to me. so many just had a moment of certainty that's been strong enough to sustain them for the long haul. i also hear folks who haven't had that moment, wanting it. it seems so elusive and magical - almost a psychological magic pill, you know? i didn't have a single day when i woke up and thought, this is it, but i'm 100% certain that this IS it. i'm going to go ahead and credit CBT (judith beck) for the jumpstart, but there are a number of ideas that have also emerged in this thread that are a huge part.

- dropping the all-or-nothing thinking about success, goals, and how you feel about yourself when you make those inevitable less-than-positive choices about food/exercise
- looking at the scale as nothing more than an indication of how my current plan is working, and having absolutely nothing to do with measuring my worth as a person (or as wdranne put it, "Fortunately it only measures the attraction between the Earth and I, and not my worth as a human being, nor my success at running my own life the way I want to.")
- i can only control my behavior, and i can't make my body lose on a schedule, so there's no point in making myself crazy or measuring my weight loss against some artificial timeline
- making peace with where i am right now - and i finally understand that losing weight is probably easier than maintaining, so i might as well enjoy the process
- making peace with the fact that getting to a healthy weight takes commitment, not motivation
- finally figuring out that it's easier to control my environment than my food choices

there are more - WAY more than seven words, huh? :)

kaplods
01-05-2009, 11:56 PM
I really think one of the issues is related to our thinking of weight loss as a behavior or task, when it's really thousands of tasks. Imagine someone asking a neurosurgeon how to perform a Hemispherectomy (and expecting a 7 word answer). Or asking an olympic athlete how they won their last marathon, or more generally how they became an competitive athlete in the first place.

Wow, could you ask me something easier like how to achieve world peace?

Every thing I'm doing is a culmination of 36 years of attempting and failing. Maybe I'm a REALLY slow learner (actually I think I just kept falling because I was trying to treat weight loss like brushing my teeth, when I should have been looking at it as trying to learn brain surgery).

The thing is I'm confident that if my hands were steadier, I COULD learn brainsurgery - I'm not so sure about this weight loss stuff.

Like anything difficult though, (and it's probably different levels of difficult for each of us), working towards what you want has to be meaningful for you. You've got to remember every day why you're doing it - No one audits medical school (well, maybe I shouldn't say no one, but I'm sure it isn't common).

GirlyGirlSebas
01-06-2009, 12:52 AM
Wow! A whole thread chock full of posts from some of my very favorite people who are saying things that I desperately needed to hear.

It's Christmas morning all over again! :present:

Lovely
01-06-2009, 08:38 AM
I really think one of the issues is related to our thinking of weight loss as a behavior or task, when it's really thousands of tasks. Imagine someone asking a neurosurgeon how to perform a Hemispherectomy (and expecting a 7 word answer). Or asking an olympic athlete how they won their last marathon, or more generally how they became an competitive athlete in the first place.

Wow, could you ask me something easier like how to achieve world peace?


And in a full circle to earlier posts people have mentioned, I think this leads back to some people expecting an "easy" answer. One answer.

And how eye-opening it is to realize that there isn't an easy answer, and if you ask 50 people, you'll get 50 different answers. (Well... maybe not if you ask a surgeon about how to perform surgery, I hope ;))

For me, before I began losing weight, I would see a person (or people) who were able to lose 50 lbs or more and think "Why am I not like that person? What do they have that I don't have? It's either a secret, or it's hereditary & I'll never have it."

I don't know WHY it clicked that I could do this, but even now that I'm down most of the weight I need to be I still don't really consider myself one of "those" people. "Those" people (the ones I've conjured up in my brain) just don't exist. There is no secret, nor is there an easy answer, and even if there were something hereditary, well I certainly don't have it so there's no use in bemoaning that fact I better just work with what I have.

I don't think it will ever truly hit me that to some other people out there, wanting to lose weight but finding it impossible, I already am one of "those" people. And aside from magically hitting them with epiphany dust, I can't change them from thinking that they aren't like me, but I so wish I could.

JulieJ08
01-06-2009, 11:11 AM
And aside from magically hitting them with epiphany dust,

:rofl: Nevermind Willpower Dust, I'll take me some Epiphany Dust!

midwife
01-06-2009, 11:28 AM
And how eye-opening it is to realize that there isn't an easy answer, and if you ask 50 people, you'll get 50 different answers. (Well... maybe not if you ask a surgeon about how to perform surgery, I hope ;))
.

I think surgeons even have their unique approaches. Certainly with delivering babies, there are lots of variations, based on training, philosophy, the woman's needs, etc. It had been a few years since I had watched someone else deliver a baby and I watched one of my fellow midwives at a birth. She put her hands a little different than I would have and brought the baby out a little different than I would have. Not wrong at all, but it was interesting to me how we perform the same task and get results but with subtle differences.

We all bring unique strengths and challenges to this weight management thing. Some of us cook, some of us don't, some of us eat meat, some don't, some love to exercise, others would rather bang their heads against doorjambs for 30 minutes.

I am struck by both the similarities and the differences on our Maintainers Accountablility thread. Many of us plan, eat the same foods over and over, aim for veggies, and try to get some kind of exercise daily. But beyond that, we are so different. Jo's got it figured out veggie-style, with carbs for endurance running. Mine's stacked with animal-based protein several times through the day. Amanda works in dessert nearly every day, whereas daily dessert might prompt a binge for me.

So there really is NOT a one-size-fits-all mentality, as we all know. There are subtle differences, although overarching principles tend to be quite similar.

ennay
01-06-2009, 11:44 AM
huh....This is NOT where I expected this thread to go at all! I expected "ennay is just being a grumpy grump AGAIN" (To those of you who hadnt met me before...umm...I get a little cranky sometimes :D)

And amazingly it did come full circle to exactly my point from the people who know best. :)