General chatter - Finally! Somebodyelse cringes with the I & me mistakes




cbmare
12-18-2008, 01:58 PM
I just don't understand why people have embraced this "Me & him went to the mall" crap. When did "me" become a subject in a sentence? Does it annoy any of you?

http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/Features/Columns/?article=RuiningMovies&gt1=27004


zeffryn
12-18-2008, 02:00 PM
It is just another step in the breaking down of the English language. Does it surprise you? One would think that people would be proud of their language and use it correctly.

I think it is just a symptom of a bigger problem - the education system. My husband is proctoring a math course at a local high school for a local university - the woman they have teaching the high school portion of the math has a degree in Home Ec. and Education....how on earth does that prepare someone to teach college level calculus?

We don't take pride in anything substantial anymore. Being educated isn't cool. Speaking properly isn't cool. Most of what schools teach these days is a joke and with every day that passes without change is another day that these kids slip further and further away.

cmonamonamona
12-18-2008, 02:18 PM
What bothers me is the too frequent use of "myself". I think people are afraid to say "me" incorrectly in a sentence and substitute "myself" instead. "Me" is an acceptable word in the right place.


cbmare
12-18-2008, 02:26 PM
I so agree with both of you. We've allowed the "dumbing down" of America. This "no child left behind" debacle is just that. A debacle! Teachers are no longer allowed to teach. They have to "teach to the test" which is all in the name of funding. Geez. We wonder why so many from other countries are better educated.

alinnell
12-18-2008, 02:36 PM
It drives me crazy as well. And the misuse of seen. "I seen him at the store yesterday." Gaaah!

cbmare
12-18-2008, 02:49 PM
It drives me crazy as well. And the misuse of seen. "I seen him at the store yesterday." Gaaah!


cringe

JulieJ08
12-18-2008, 03:11 PM
"I says" instead of "I said". My mom drives me nuts with that, and she is very educated and used to be a teacher! Sometimes habits just develop anyway, I guess.

junebug41
12-18-2008, 03:17 PM
I heard a TEACHER from what I thought was a decent school district here say "irregardless" on the news last night.

A TEACHER!

My DH sometimes says "hows come" and I give him the inquisition every time he says it. He hasn't said it in a while.

I wondered where an intelligent man with an advanced degree ever got a phrase like that. I found out over Thanksgiving that he got it from his mother, who had a daycare out of her home for years. She uses kid language a lot.

I cringe to think of him in a meeting with engineers and builders (he's an architect) saying, "Hows come..."

WaterRat
12-18-2008, 03:35 PM
And it's not just talking. Writing.... no one seems to know where to use its vs. it's or that an apostrophe doesn't belong in a plural word, only a possessive. Makes me want to scream!! And those who write that they need "to loose weight." Or that they want to "weight less." :) It really annoys me too that I mispronounciations places like NPR news or in an audiobook!

ETA: even though I wrote loose in the "to lose weight" example above, the board apparently corrected it! It must feel the same way about improper word use. :lol:

HiHoHiHo
12-18-2008, 03:37 PM
It annoys me way more when people use "I" when they should use "me."
It's ok to say ME, people !
Use "I" when the word is the subject, use "me" when the word is an object.

Please come with my wife and me (NOT my wife and I !!)
This is a perfect gift for Billy and me. (NOT Billy and I !!)
There was a problem between my friend and me (NOT my frined and I !!)

easy way to tell if you're doing the right thing is to take out the other person. For example, you wouldn't say, "Please come with I," you would say, "Please come with me."

The new Secretary of Education just made this type of mistake in his speech this week and I cringed big time. He's a wonderful guy, but that was a glaring error.

ok, I'm off my soapbox. thank you.

Thighs Be Gone
12-18-2008, 03:42 PM
It is just another step in the breaking down of the English language. Does it surprise you? One would think that people would be proud of their language and use it correctly.

I think it is just a symptom of a bigger problem - the education system. My husband is proctoring a math course at a local high school for a local university - the woman they have teaching the high school portion of the math has a degree in Home Ec. and Education....how on earth does that prepare someone to teach college level calculus?

We don't take pride in anything substantial anymore. Being educated isn't cool. Speaking properly isn't cool. Most of what schools teach these days is a joke and with every day that passes without change is another day that these kids slip further and further away.



Oh, boy. YOU AND I SERIOUSLY NEED TO CHAT! As a former educator myself and now a mother of two, I agree with what you have written. My children have been attending Chinese schools for three years now. We are currently deciding what our next step will be in educating our children in a society that discourages learning.

cbmare
12-18-2008, 04:18 PM
HiHoHiHo, stop mincing words and tell us how you really feel. :lol:

I find myself stopping my grands for speaking in mid sentence to have them correct their own sentence.

I'm so glad to know I'm not the only one.

PhotoChick
12-18-2008, 05:31 PM
Oh this thread is singing my song.

So many things that drive me crazy. And don't even get me started on text-speak. :)

My three biggest pet peeves:
your/you're
their/there/they're
and "of" instead of "have" - as in could of, might of, should of.

.

WaterRat
12-18-2008, 06:51 PM
Or how about "the reason is because... " instead of "the reason is that... "

Or to/too/two

Principal/principle, stationary/stationery and capitol/capital I'm a little more willing to willing to overlook as they're not used as much. But I saw on a thread earlier today that someone loved Miracle Whip but couldn't spell it! Go look at your jar!

JulieJ08
12-18-2008, 08:43 PM
Or how about "the reason is because... " instead of "the reason is that... "

LOL, or how about just "because?"

LisaMarie71
12-19-2008, 10:31 AM
I just want to "ditto" this entire thread! All these things make me crazy, and I'm a high school teacher so you can imagine the pain I go through with my students! It's alarming, really, how little they know of grammar. I blame the trend in education toward only learning grammar through reading. I find that my high school students have had very little exposure to grammar for grammar's sake, if that makes sense. When I was in school, we did grammar for half the year and literature for the other half. Now it's all about reading. Don't get me wrong -- I'm all for that! But we're losing sight of the grammar side in education now. I try to push it in my classes but most other English teachers at my school (and everywhere, it seems) do not. Students actually argue with me that I'm wrong about the things I teach them, because they're so used to hearing it the wrong way. They refuse, for example, to believe that it's correct to say "the bell rang" instead of "the bell rung." An entire class of sophomores refused to accept this one day! The fact that I have an English degree and I'm their teacher doesn't seem to affect their acceptance of what I say! They also argue with me about elliptical clauses, as in "Sam is taller than I." Even when I explain about the missing remainder of the clause (Sam is taller than I am) and how you wouldn't say "Sam is taller than me am," they refuse to accept it. It's hard to teach when the students are so convinced they're right about everything already. Or I suppose they're just convinced that it doesn't matter anyway.

zeffryn
12-19-2008, 10:43 AM
I just want to "ditto" this entire thread! All these things make me crazy, and I'm a high school teacher so you can imagine the pain I go through with my students! It's alarming, really, how little they know of grammar. I blame the trend in education toward only learning grammar through reading. I find that my high school students have had very little exposure to grammar for grammar's sake, if that makes sense. When I was in school, we did grammar for half the year and literature for the other half. Now it's all about reading. Don't get me wrong -- I'm all for that! But we're losing sight of the grammar side in education now. I try to push it in my classes but most other English teachers at my school (and everywhere, it seems) do not. Students actually argue with me that I'm wrong about the things I teach them, because they're so used to hearing it the wrong way. They refuse, for example, to believe that it's correct to say "the bell rang" instead of "the bell rung." An entire class of sophomores refused to accept this one day! The fact that I have an English degree and I'm their teacher doesn't seem to affect their acceptance of what I say! They also argue with me about elliptical clauses, as in "Sam is taller than I." Even when I explain about the missing remainder of the clause (Sam is taller than I am) and how you wouldn't say "Sam is taller than me am," they refuse to accept it. It's hard to teach when the students are so convinced they're right about everything already. Or I suppose they're just convinced that it doesn't matter anyway.

Society has proven that it doesn't matter.

We have parents, teachers and peers all saying that kids who speak correctly sound "snobby".

There is a school down here that is basically all one race - a friend's son went there for exactly one semester and was made fun of by the teachers for the way he spoke. They said he sounded too...um...white (forgive my lack of political correctness, I couldn't think of another way to put it). His peers made fun of him for having drive in his life and taking responsibility for himself and his actions.

Society cannot survive when we allow everyone to take the easiest, shortest way possible and not assume any responsibility for anything in their life.

Unfortunately, I think there needs to be drastic changes made to ensure that this country doesn't implode. Whether or not those changes are even possible is debatable. I just hate looking at society and seeing the base slowly crumbling.

cbmare
12-19-2008, 01:44 PM
Boy oh boy! You two said it.

Like I said in another post, I think some of it is due to the "dumbing down" and "no child left behind". When my kids were in school, I checked their homework every night. In fact, when my older daughter started college, she plopped her homework down on the dining room table for me to check. She thought I no longer cared when I told her that her homework was her responsibility now that she was out of high school. :lol:

Zef, I totally understand the "too white" problem that kid had. It is all over the place out here. Many of the hispanic kids are ridiculed for trying to achieve. It is really a sad commentary. You know some of the parents of those kids are aware of the way their kids are treating others.

EZMONEY
12-20-2008, 01:03 AM
you all must just have so much fun with my posts

Wolf Goddess
12-20-2008, 07:06 PM
I have to add, the parents are a large factor in this as well. How is a child supposed to believe what their teacher tells them if they here their parents saying things like "You and him are going over to Timmy's house"? If the message isn't enforced at home, there's no way it's going to penetrate young minds.

PhotoChick
12-20-2008, 07:11 PM
We had a discussion on another board one time about the difference between t-shirt language (casual) and tuxedo language (formal). I will admit that I talk and write to friends and family and in casual settings, in ways that I most certainly would never write at work, in copy, in emails to my clients, or at school.

In t-shirt situations, I often begin sentences with "and" or "but". I use ellipses to indicate my speech patterns ... where I would pause or breathe. :) I use smileys. I write in fragments sometimes. I use things like 'cause and say "uh-huh" or "yup". I even, when I'm talking to my East Texas family sometimes (*gasp*) say "ain't" and use double negatives.

But I know the difference and I know when that kind of use is appropriate and when it's not. Just like I swear (quite a bit, actually) but I'd never swear in front of a kid or a client.

It's all about context and being appropriate. There's nothing wrong with wearing a tshirt. But you don't wear one to a job interview. :)

.

cbmare
12-22-2008, 01:22 PM
Well, if I happened to be applying at a t-shirt shop I might wear one. However, it would be appropriate in that instance.

I think we all speak more casually at home. That doesn't mean that we have to let all grammar rules fly out the window.

Still, I think that rule about not ending a sentence with a preposition is stupid.

alinnell
12-22-2008, 01:43 PM
Still, I think that rule about not ending a sentence with a preposition is stupid.

"A preposition is a perfectly good thing to end a sentence with."

I think that was E.B.White in the Elements of Style.

cbmare
12-22-2008, 05:02 PM
Winston Churchill didn't care very much for that rule either.

trekkiegirl
12-23-2008, 11:28 AM
Add my voice to the chorus! A few more that make my ears (and eyes) bleed:

1) It's not "axe", it's "ask."
2) There is no such word as "expecially" and no x in "especially."
3) It's not "one in the same" but "one and the same."
4) Unless you're doing something intravenously, it's not "in vein", it's "in vain."
5) Women wear heels, not "heals."

Oh, yes....

WALLA! It's voila! (Pardon my French!) :p

Stepping Out
12-23-2008, 11:51 AM
How about 'should of'; as in, "I should of done that"

It's should HAVE!!! :dizzy:

PhotoChick
12-23-2008, 11:54 AM
should of
might of
could of

... all of those make me insane when I read them. :)

But I also get annoyed when people use a phrase that they've obviously HEARD somewhere but don't really know or understand.

I have a friend who refers to this as the "Girl Next Store" syndrome (because we both were involved in a discussion where someone was talking about the "girl next store" and we finally had to ask ... do you mean the "girl next door"?)

.

sacha
12-23-2008, 12:40 PM
I'm 5 months from graduating with a degree in Linguistics and English, along with a certificate to teach English as a second language. Believe it or not, there are more non-native English speakers than native English speakers! It's a very dynamic and rapidly changing language. Pronounciation varies from region to region, and even between cities. Most overseas schools prefer to hire teachers with British accents because they perceive an American accent as sounding "lazy" and incorrect. Shocking, eh? Common speech among all of us here would probably have been perceived that way 50 years ago as well.

It doesn't make it WRONG, it just means the language is evolving.

Did you know, that in the 1200-1300's (Middle English), there was no such thing as standard spelling in English? It is very difficult to read some of my texts because of this. Is this incorrect? Here/heste/etc... all meant the same thing, it just depended on the author.

Society imploding? Come on, seriously? It used to be incorrect to publish texts in English because it was a commoner's language. Only proper society published in Latin or French (in England).

PhotoChick
12-23-2008, 12:48 PM
It doesn't make it WRONG, it just means the language is evolving. There's evolution, then there's laziness/ignorance.

I'm an historian by education, and sort of a grammar/usage freak by .. I dunno ... avocation? :) I totally get and agree with the evolution of language. Things change. Standards change. Technology changes. Society changes. And all of those changes have ripple effects on our use of language and how the language develops.

I have no problem with that.

What I have a problem with is people who don't bother to learn the basics or who are willfully ignorant (I have a huge problem with willful ignorance) of what is correct and then use "dude - don't be so anal" as an excuse to not even bother to learn.

.

JulieJ08
12-23-2008, 01:28 PM
I have a friend who refers to this as the "Girl Next Store" syndrome (because we both were involved in a discussion where someone was talking about the "girl next store" and we finally had to ask ... do you mean the "girl next door"?)

Girl next store??? That's priceless.

alinnell
12-23-2008, 01:49 PM
I can't tell you the epiphany I felt when I realized that "this morning" was two words! Granted, I was in elementary school at the time, but I really thought there was some word out there spelled something like "thesmorning"