Weight Loss Support - Why Should I Even Try to Lose Weight?




BillyG
08-14-2008, 07:20 PM
It's a fact that 98% of diet attempts fail.

It's a fact that food is better than just about anything.

Why should I or anyone else attempt something that is so futile that I only to be disappointed when I fail?

A lot of fat people claim to have low self esteem but in reality they don't. In fact a study of the MMPI shows that fat people actually have higher self esteem than "normal" people and much higher self esteem than anorexics. Why should I wreck my self esteem with a diet failure?

Comments?


yoyonomoreinvegas
08-14-2008, 07:26 PM
Because you can be one of the 2% that doesn't fail.

And that's all I have to say about that :D

luckymommy
08-14-2008, 07:32 PM
If you feel good and you are healthy, then you shouldn't try to lose weight.


Heather
08-14-2008, 07:40 PM
I had those same thoughts before this weight loss attempt, as I struggled with everything at 295 pounds.

I mentioned to my husband that I had always failed before, so why bother? He said something like: "Well, with that attitude, failure is guaranteed!"

I tried, and so far, I've succeeded.

I've learned a lot over the past few years -- and yes, it IS tough to lose AND maintain. But a big reason people gain weight back is because they go "on" diets, lose weight, and then go "off" diets and gain it back. People who lose weight using a plan they can stick with for LIFE are more successful. I urge you to check out our wonderful maintainers forum for more information.

I'm not trying to say this is easy. It's not. Some days I think my body wants me to gain a lot of weight back (and there's research to suggest that's true). But I do know that losing over 100 pounds has given me my life back, and I'm loath to relinquish it.

BillyG
08-14-2008, 07:42 PM
If you feel good and you are healthy, then you shouldn't try to lose weight.

I feel OK now. I have free drugs for my diabetes. I have free pain meds. They can repair my joints for free. I have a CPAP machine for my sleep apnea. I have a handicap licence plate and Wal-Mart has the scooters. I can have glorious food delivered. Why should I give up all that for the long odds of losing 200+ pounds? I'd be a fool to try.

GradPhase
08-14-2008, 07:42 PM
If you don't want it enough to over look the statistics and put everything in to it regardless, then you don't want it bad enough and you will fail. It's pretty much that simple. It's difficult, sure. But it's simple.

KLK
08-14-2008, 07:45 PM
You don't have to! No one has to do anything besides eat, sleep, um... go bathroom. The real question is: if you really think about it, consider how you feel, how you feel about yourself, and the state of your health, do you *want* to lose weight? Based on those things, should you lose weight? Would anything in your life improve if you did? If you want to, then you should try. But you do not have to!

ETA: I'm just making the distinction here because, at least speaking personally, there is a big difference between what I *want* to do and what I *have to* do... people often half-*** what they feel they have to do, procrastinate about it, whine about it, whatever. But if you think about it and you *WANT* to do something... you can actually maybe get excited about it, give it 100%, have fun, etc.

In terms of most diets failing and it being useless to try: It's not. The useless thing is falling into a dieting mentality, where you change your behaviors just enough to drop the weight, and then immediately go back to what you were doing before the loss. THAT is a "going on a diet." What works, longterm, is making sustainable changes to your lifestyle, things you can do *forever* that will not only take off the weight, but keep it off.

Icandoit2
08-14-2008, 07:50 PM
Sometimes I feel the same way....but if I'm really honest with myself I would like to have some of this weight off. I don't want to have to rely on meds to take pain away. I want to live my life to fullest and not wonder what people are thinking about the fat lady. It all comes down to having to loose the weight for yourself!

Jennifer 3FC
08-14-2008, 07:54 PM
Well if you have pain meds, diabetes, need a scooter and need to have food delivered to you, then it sounds like weight loss can at least extend your life. If all that is related to diabetes and your weight, you're not going to live as long as you should. But, if you think you'd be a fool to try, why are you here?

luckymommy
08-14-2008, 07:57 PM
I think you got some wonderful advice...especially from Heather, who is a true inspiration to me and many other people on this borad. It sounds like you are not in good health. I'm not really sure by the tone of your posts if you want to be convinced to do this or if you want to be convinced not to. I'm sorry if I am misreading this, but it's so hard to catch subtelties when they are in print. If you really want help getting motivated, then I'm sure many of us will do our best to motivate you. If you are feeling down and hopeless, then I can tell you that many people here (myself inculded) can relate and would like to help. If, however, you are trying to prove that it's not worth your while, and is a bad idea, and that being on meds is fine because they are free and getting around is fine if you have a scooter, then I certainly don't know what to say. This is a wonderful site and I don't think you would be here unless you were reaching out for help, but again, I could be wrong. Either way, good luck to you.

delitaagain
08-14-2008, 07:59 PM
It's a fact that 98% of diet attempts fail.

It's a fact that food is better than just about anything.

Why should I or anyone else attempt something that is so futile that I only to be disappointed when I fail?

A lot of fat people claim to have low self esteem but in reality they don't. In fact a study of the MMPI shows that fat people actually have higher self esteem than "normal" people and much higher self esteem than anorexics. Why should I wreck my self esteem with a diet failure?

Comments?

It's a fact that 100% who never begin fail, and, 100% of those who succeed started.

It's a fact that many things are better than food - LIVE, LOVE, LAUGH - and very sad fact that so many of us are seduced by foods into forfeiting our lives and opportunities.

Hard things are not futile, just HARD.

If you are willing to fail, you will. In that case, it may be best not to start until you won't accept failure.

Failure is not a failure until you refuse to get back up and go again.

Fewer "failures" through "failing to try" won't boost your self esteem bu weaken it.

Trying, and overcoming failures (failed attempts), gives the kind of strength and strengthened self-esteem that can't be earned any other way.

Forget failures. They are just steps in the stairway to your dreams.

Excuses are the slide into a downward spiral. Notice they are free.

Effort costs.

If you really want to do something for yourself, do.

Schmoodle
08-14-2008, 08:01 PM
I have free drugs for my diabetes. I have free pain meds. They can repair my joints for free. I have a CPAP machine for my sleep apnea. I have a handicap licence plate and Wal-Mart has the scooters. I can have glorious food delivered. Why should I give up all that for the long odds of losing 200+ pounds? I'd be a fool to try.

Because that doesn't sound like much of a life.
And because if you buy into statistics, then if you try 99 times, one of those times you are guaranteed to be successful, you just don't know which one. Maybe it will be the first try.
Of course if you know anything about statistics, you know that value of that number you quoted depends totally on the population examined and the definitions of "diet" and "success". I have lost 65 lbs without being on a diet, just by changing my lifestyle, so obviously I don't count.

BillyG
08-14-2008, 08:01 PM
Sometimes I feel the same way....but if I'm really honest with myself I would like to have some of this weight off. I don't want to have to rely on meds to take pain away. I want to live my life to fullest and not wonder what people are thinking about the fat lady. It all comes down to having to loose the weight for yourself!

It would seem then that the reward of tasty high calorie food trumps just about everything for you and I and 98% of fat people. For me it certainly is not a matter of can't it is simply a matter of won't because I don't think I want it. I know what I "need" to do. Heck we all do. For me I was raised to be selfish and I think about our short time on this dreadful planet and I am going for all the pleasure I can get.

I have next to now interest in sex or relationships because it is too much trouble. Food never lets me down and it never ignore my pleas. Why should I give that up? I am like most Americans. I am greedy and self centered. My function or purpose is to consume. What else is there really?

KLK
08-14-2008, 08:05 PM
LOL! :lol:


Food never lets me down and it never ignore my pleas. Why should I give that up? I am like most Americans. I am greedy and self centered. My function or purpose is to consume. What else is there really?

GradPhase
08-14-2008, 08:05 PM
Nobody else here is going to be able to give you even one good reason to lose weight if you are so adamantly against it. If you don't want it, don't do it. But if you're convinced you don't want it - why are you wasting your time on a weight loss forum?

Schmoodle
08-14-2008, 08:05 PM
Well then, good luck with that. Maybe there is a greedy, self-centered, consumer lifestyle support board somewhere.

KLK
08-14-2008, 08:07 PM
:snowball1 - I hope this looks enough like a troll to get my point across :)

Nobody else here is going to be able to give you even one good reason to lose weight if you are so adamantly against it. If you don't want it, don't do it. But if you're convinced you don't want it - why are you wasting your time on a weight loss forum?

Jennifer 3FC
08-14-2008, 08:08 PM
Billy, if you are looking for help and weight loss support, please continue to post, but if you are here to tease us, or looking for people to beg you to change your mind about weight loss, that isn't what we're here for, and you should go elsewhere.

luckymommy
08-14-2008, 08:12 PM
It would seem then that the reward of tasty high calorie food trumps just about everything for you and I and 98% of fat people. For me it certainly is not a matter of can't it is simply a matter of won't because I don't think I want it. I know what I "need" to do. Heck we all do. For me I was raised to be selfish and I think about our short time on this dreadful planet and I am going for all the pleasure I can get.

I have next to now interest in sex or relationships because it is too much trouble. Food never lets me down and it never ignore my pleas. Why should I give that up? I am like most Americans. I am greedy and self centered. My function or purpose is to consume. What else is there really?


Sounds like you have it all figured out then!

mamaspank
08-14-2008, 08:13 PM
When I started court reporting school ten years ago, they told me that 1 out of 100 people who start school ever actually become a reporter. That's 1 percent. Didn't even scare me a bit. Actually, it is what drove me to be at the top of my class. I finished, passed our state test, and became a working reporter. I have a lot of friends that didn't.

You can't let that stop you if it is really what you want to do. I didn't realize the percentage was so low for dieters. Well, I am responsible for what I put into my mouth every day, and I am responsible for what my body and mind are capable of doing. Right now, I feel as good as I did when I was 18.

bargoo
08-14-2008, 08:30 PM
Do you want good health ? How about a better quality of life ? Do you know what it is like to feel good ? Losing weight could give you a new, exciting healthy life.

kaplods
08-14-2008, 08:35 PM
I've been dieting most of my life. Obviously, not all of my life, and not successfully all of my life. I've been morbidly obese since early childhood, except for a short time in high school (with the help of prescription diet pills).

And "dieting" doesn't work, mostly because we know very little about the "right way" to make changes that are sustainable. Much of what we learn about weight loss is out and out false. Too many people continue to "diet" in the way they were taught, even though it doesn't work (in the long term) mostly because it's all they know, and it often does work in the short term. But to keep it off, you have to find a "new" way.

I have NEVER been able to continue on a weight loss plan, or maintain a loss for so long as I am doing now (though it's also a lot, lot, lot slower). I am on disability for fibromyalgia and an autoimmune disease. One day, I may be able to get back to work. I want to, as I don't want to waste over 17 years of education (masters' degree plus).

Things that weight loss has done for me.

Cured my sleep apnea. I was having 90 incidences of apnea per hour. After losing only 30 lbs, the apnea disappeared.

Improved my pain levels and increased my stamina and strength. When I started I needed to use the Walmart carts, I had to sit down to take a shower, and had to use a 2 in 1 shampoo/conditioner because I didn't have the strength or stamina to rinse and repeat. I couldn't lift a bowl over my head to put it away, and I had to have my husband tie my shoes.

I can now walk most stores, even Sam's Club. I can shower and shampoo like a "normal" person, and I can do many normal chores around the house.

I'm still on disability. I still enjoy good food (in fact, maybe if I didn't I would lose faster, but this isn't race for me, any longer, it's just my life).

The biggest difference this time than all of the others - well I can't discount the role that lower carb and changing my bc pills, and not having to be on prednisone helped. Those are all physical things, but the biggest mental change has been that I am not "dieting," I am changing my lifestyle, and doing it gradually, even slowly. This isn't a popular method of weight loss, in fact most people want FAST, but fast often doesn't stick. Many people "diet" fully expecting to be able to "go off the diet" at some point. You've got to be willing to realize that some changes need to be permanent.

That doesn't mean you don't ever get to eat good food again (unless you think all healthy food or any food that you can lose weight on is "crap"). I've found tons of healthy and low calorie foods that are really wonderful tasting. I'm not feeling "deprived" at all.

All that being said - if you don't want to lose weight, then don't. I'm not going to judge anyone's choices, even if they are causing pain and shortening life expectancy. I can't stop a person from sky diving or bungee jumping, and I can't stop someone from slowly poisoning themselves with food, alcohol, or drugs. We all make choices, some of them work for us and our quality of life, and some work against us. Everyone is responsible for their own choices.

But, I can't believe you would be here if you weren't interested in losing weight. It sounds like you just don't see yourself as being able to make the changes necessary to do so. I can relate to that, because that's where I was when I started. I probably wouldn't be here, if I hadn't accidentally lost 20 lbs without trying (when I first had to go onto disability and couldn't work any more). Never in my life, had I "accidentally" lost so much as 5 lbs, let alone 20. My doctors attributed it to getting decent sleep and eating better (this wasn't a conscious choice, I just didn't have a vending machine within a few feet of my desk). "Ok," I thought, "if I could lose 20 lbs, without trying, I should be able to lose a few more if I try." I didn't plan on losing all 250 (and usually, I still don't), I just look at what I know I can do. I may not be able to lose ANY more, but I can maintain the 50+ I have lost, if I keep on it. For me, that means weighing myself daily, and going to my TOPS group weekly, and coming here daily and writing in my food journal (and the more I do that, the more control I have, but sometimes I'm lazy).

The thing is I NEVER allow my self to say that I might as well give up. Because only giving up is failure, everything else is just my life. Sometimes I lose, sometimes I maintain, and once in a while I even gain, but I don't give up. And my self esteem is stronger than ever (though it's always been high - what can I say I'm a pretty smart and wonderful person).

I LOVE the things I can do now that I couldn't three years ago. I even bought a bicycle and ride it (still not very long, and not as frequently as I'd like, as my stamina and balance aren't really conducive to bike riding - but I don't regret buying the bike, it gave me hope). I also started volunteering walking dogs at the humane society (my first dog was a rottie mix - that was probably a mistake. The walk was very short, but I was in bed the next day and sore for a week it seemed. So now I know to be careful about which dogs I walk - chihuahua's, poodles and shiitzu's are more my speed, but I haven't give up).

lifechange
08-14-2008, 08:52 PM
A couple of quick points
You are either saying these things to get a reaction or you are interested in losing weight otherwise why would you have found this board- when you could be eating a bowl of ice cream and watching TV.
You might not be ready to start dieting tomorrow but keep reading this board it might take a week, it might take 6 months but one morning you will wake up and want to lose weight and you will know you will succeed.
The stats out there are misleading since most of us have dieted before we succeed for our last time. There are some great maintenance success stories on this board.
Depending on the diet you choose you don't have to give up the pleasures of food you just have to limit them.
If you have 200 lbs to lose-take your time, enjoy your food delivery, scooter, wheelchair parking through your journey. Its not like you give everything up overnight.
Trust me there is a life out there. It is hard to describe the joy of riding your bike down a bike path seeing beautiful flowers and breathing in fresh air.
I wish you all the best, whatever your decision ultimately is.

BillyG
08-14-2008, 09:02 PM
When I started court reporting school ten years ago, they told me that 1 out of 100 people who start school ever actually become a reporter. That's 1 percent. Didn't even scare me a bit. Actually, it is what drove me to be at the top of my class. I finished, passed our state test, and became a working reporter. I have a lot of friends that didn't.

You can't let that stop you if it is really what you want to do. I didn't realize the percentage was so low for dieters. Well, I am responsible for what I put into my mouth every day, and I am responsible for what my body and mind are capable of doing. Right now, I feel as good as I did when I was 18.

You are the exception not the rule. You sound like a strong inner motivated woman with a sense of honor and exceptional drive. I on the other hand am a lazy lummox and I am not ashamed to admit it.

I guess I am looking for a reward greater than food but what is greater than tasty food. Can anyone list even three things that would be a more powerful motivator than food. My self esteem is too high to be motivated by guilt. If I act5ually did feel guilty I would eat to relieve that guilt. A box of Famous Amos cookies and a tub of ice cream will vanquish that.

What I may need is a higher purpose. I think about getting married and having kids but I am too fat to attract a woman that I would find attractive. I can't or won't stick with a diet for more than a day. I even started a fat acceptance blog because I got sick of their phony mantras like fat by nature proud by choice and 2 4 6 8 we will not regurgitate.
biggerfatterblog.blogspot

I'm here because my family is on my case about losing weight and my doctor is recommending WLS and counseling.

I probably should take a shot at this because my family is so worried about me. They tell me I am in denial but honestly I know the consequences of my behavior.

Heather
08-14-2008, 09:06 PM
Billy -- I used to think the same thing about food. First, realize that losing weight successfully doesn't necessarily mean giving up really yummy food! I love the food I eat now. And I pay more attention to it when I eat it -- I used to simply shove fritos in my mouth barely without tasting them. Now I savor a fresh peach, or wonderful tacos, or blueberries and yogurt.... :drool:

Second, I now believe that being able to fully engage in my life is more important than not paying attention to the (really yummy) food I eat. I know its only one thing, but it's a doozy!

BillyG
08-14-2008, 09:08 PM
A couple of quick points
You are either saying these things to get a reaction or you are interested in losing weight otherwise why would you have found this board- when you could be eating a bowl of ice cream and watching TV.
You might not be ready to start dieting tomorrow but keep reading this board it might take a week, it might take 6 months but one morning you will wake up and want to lose weight and you will know you will succeed.
The stats out there are misleading since most of us have dieted before we succeed for our last time. There are some great maintenance success stories on this board.
Depending on the diet you choose you don't have to give up the pleasures of food you just have to limit them.
If you have 200 lbs to lose-take your time, enjoy your food delivery, scooter, wheelchair parking through your journey. Its not like you give everything up overnight.
Trust me there is a life out there. It is hard to describe the joy of riding your bike down a bike path seeing beautiful flowers and breathing in fresh air.
I wish you all the best, whatever your decision ultimately is.

It sounds like you are recommending an incremental approach. What would you say the difference with your mind set is now from back then?

Heather
08-14-2008, 09:13 PM
Regarding an incremental approach, I took a "baby steps" approach to losing weight. I simply couldn't think about all the changes I needed to make right away.

I started by bringing lunch and snacks to work (to avoid the vending machine). And I watched portion sizes. I was serious about it, and committed, but couldn't deal with any other changes. I was also on "summer break" so my schedule wasn't as hectic. I might have started even slower if I had been really busy at work!

BillyG
08-14-2008, 09:15 PM
I've been dieting most of my life. Obviously, not all of my life, and not successfully all of my life. I've been morbidly obese since early childhood, except for a short time in high school (with the help of prescription diet pills).

And "dieting" doesn't work, mostly because we know very little about the "right way" to make changes that are sustainable. Much of what we learn about weight loss is out and out false. Too many people continue to "diet" in the way they were taught, even though it doesn't work (in the long term) mostly because it's all they know, and it often does work in the short term. But to keep it off, you have to find a "new" way.

I have NEVER been able to continue on a weight loss plan, or maintain a loss for so long as I am doing now (though it's also a lot, lot, lot slower). I am on disability for fibromyalgia and an autoimmune disease. One day, I may be able to get back to work. I want to, as I don't want to waste over 17 years of education (masters' degree plus).

Things that weight loss has done for me.

Cured my sleep apnea. I was having 90 incidences of apnea per hour. After losing only 30 lbs, the apnea disappeared.

Improved my pain levels and increased my stamina and strength. When I started I needed to use the Walmart carts, I had to sit down to take a shower, and had to use a 2 in 1 shampoo/conditioner because I didn't have the strength or stamina to rinse and repeat. I couldn't lift a bowl over my head to put it away, and I had to have my husband tie my shoes.

I can now walk most stores, even Sam's Club. I can shower and shampoo like a "normal" person, and I can do many normal chores around the house.

I'm still on disability. I still enjoy good food (in fact, maybe if I didn't I would lose faster, but this isn't race for me, any longer, it's just my life).

The biggest difference this time than all of the others - well I can't discount the role that lower carb and changing my bc pills, and not having to be on prednisone helped. Those are all physical things, but the biggest mental change has been that I am not "dieting," I am changing my lifestyle, and doing it gradually, even slowly. This isn't a popular method of weight loss, in fact most people want FAST, but fast often doesn't stick. Many people "diet" fully expecting to be able to "go off the diet" at some point. You've got to be willing to realize that some changes need to be permanent.

That doesn't mean you don't ever get to eat good food again (unless you think all healthy food or any food that you can lose weight on is "crap"). I've found tons of healthy and low calorie foods that are really wonderful tasting. I'm not feeling "deprived" at all.

All that being said - if you don't want to lose weight, then don't. I'm not going to judge anyone's choices, even if they are causing pain and shortening life expectancy. I can't stop a person from sky diving or bungee jumping, and I can't stop someone from slowly poisoning themselves with food, alcohol, or drugs. We all make choices, some of them work for us and our quality of life, and some work against us. Everyone is responsible for their own choices.

But, I can't believe you would be here if you weren't interested in losing weight. It sounds like you just don't see yourself as being able to make the changes necessary to do so. I can relate to that, because that's where I was when I started. I probably wouldn't be here, if I hadn't accidentally lost 20 lbs without trying (when I first had to go onto disability and couldn't work any more). Never in my life, had I "accidentally" lost so much as 5 lbs, let alone 20. My doctors attributed it to getting decent sleep and eating better (this wasn't a conscious choice, I just didn't have a vending machine within a few feet of my desk). "Ok," I thought, "if I could lose 20 lbs, without trying, I should be able to lose a few more if I try." I didn't plan on losing all 250 (and usually, I still don't), I just look at what I know I can do. I may not be able to lose ANY more, but I can maintain the 50+ I have lost, if I keep on it. For me, that means weighing myself daily, and going to my TOPS group weekly, and coming here daily and writing in my food journal (and the more I do that, the more control I have, but sometimes I'm lazy).

The thing is I NEVER allow my self to say that I might as well give up. Because only giving up is failure, everything else is just my life. Sometimes I lose, sometimes I maintain, and once in a while I even gain, but I don't give up. And my self esteem is stronger than ever (though it's always been high - what can I say I'm a pretty smart and wonderful person).

I LOVE the things I can do now that I couldn't three years ago. I even bought a bicycle and ride it (still not very long, and not as frequently as I'd like, as my stamina and balance aren't really conducive to bike riding - but I don't regret buying the bike, it gave me hope). I also started volunteering walking dogs at the humane society (my first dog was a rottie mix - that was probably a mistake. The walk was very short, but I was in bed the next day and sore for a week it seemed. So now I know to be careful about which dogs I walk - chihuahua's, poodles and shiitzu's are more my speed, but I haven't give up).

It sounds like your motivation is feat of premature death. I am an existentialist and therefore I have accepted the fact that death is final and I don't worry about when it will happen because when I happens I won't know it. Maybe if I were afraid of death I would be motivated enough.

srmb60
08-14-2008, 09:17 PM
I have a couple of questions if you don't mind ...

Please explain all that free stuff.
How do you pay for your food?
Does someone bring you everything?
And ... what is it that you'd like from us here at 3FC?

Suzanne 3FC
08-14-2008, 09:20 PM
Billy, my heart goes out to you because you are obviously searching your soul for the right solution to your own situation. I'm not sure if WLS is the right option, because it also fails if the mind and heart are not in the same place. Lots of people regain weight after WLS.

I think counseling might be a good option for you, to help you figure out why you overeat, and get one on one support for getting past your personal obstacles. This is one of the reasons why so many diets fail - we just aren't ready and willing, for whatever reason, to make life long, permanent changes. Sometimes there is so much more involved than knowing what to eat, and knowing that we need to exercise. The big question is why don't we do it?

What you are doing right now isn't working for you. You are unhappy. Are you really ready to change that? I detect more frustration with your situation than true inner willingness to change, but sometimes it comes in steps or phases. That's actually very common. Maybe your next step will come very soon :hug:

That's a big assumption on my part, based on just a few sentences by you, so I could be very wrong.

In the meantime, maybe you can work on small changes, which might inspire larger ones? If nothing else, just work on one meal. Make sure your breakfast every day is reasonably healthy. That's all. You might be surprised with how much better you feel after just a week. Hopefully lunch will eventually follow the trend. (from the book Change One) Maybe the goal can be more focused on getting healthier, instead of weight loss.

I hope you'll stick around, and let this be part of your plan to get healthier :)

lifechange
08-14-2008, 09:20 PM
Billy, Definitely an incremental approach. If you feel like you are going to fail you will. But you obviously have some level of interest because you are still here. So stay with us, and if your family and doc is talking WLS check out www.obesityhelp.com (DS surgery is more of an option for those who really can't change their eating patterns- sorry to any DS's if I am oversimplifying).
I knew that if I jumped into this journey full swing, it would be overwhelming and I would not continue. So once I knew I was ready to diet and succeed I did, and I did not exercise at first. I set 10% goals. I gradually added in exercise and it has made all the difference for me. I started slowly. I love that I can ride a bike, and enjoy my surroundings.
Mindset- you have to be ready. The only way you will get to the point of being ready is to think about it on occassion, stay on these message boards.
My husband has type 2 diabetes and needs to lose about 60 lbs but was absolutely not interested. He played with it a few times, lost and gained it back. Now he appears to be ready and is doing some exercise of his own accord- after several weeks he is actually really enjoying it. It makes you feel energized.
Re women- once you get engaged in life you will be suprised how attractive you become to women.

bargoo
08-14-2008, 09:24 PM
Billy, tell us the truth. Are you going on a diet because your family is on your case ? Or are you going to diet to improve your health and quality of life ? If you are not motivated by your own desire to succeed, then you probably will fail.

QuilterInVA
08-14-2008, 09:30 PM
Well don't lose weight. Eat everything you want. Hope you have good insurance to cover your future health problems. It also sets a great example for a poor lifestyle for your children so they can have health problems too.

I lost 214 pounds 30 years ago and have kept it off. I wasn't in the 98% because failing was not an option for me. I changed what I ate, when I ate, and my exercise and I was a success. I had very low self esteem when I was at my highest. I hated to leave the house. Now I have a full and active life. I am 67 years old, have a nice low blood pressure, no heart of cholesterol problems and I still workout.

BillyG
08-14-2008, 09:30 PM
Regarding an incremental approach, I took a "baby steps" approach to losing weight. I simply couldn't think about all the changes I needed to make right away.

I started by bringing lunch and snacks to work (to avoid the vending machine). And I watched portion sizes. I was serious about it, and committed, but couldn't deal with any other changes. I was also on "summer break" so my schedule wasn't as hectic. I might have started even slower if I had been really busy at work!

My family did a sort of intervention on me. My brother Neil is an engineer so when I tried the metabolism song and dance he shut me right down. He said to me that my immoderate eating was a matter of won't not can't. Deep down I always knew that but I just wanted to get them off my back and quit bugging me. He laid out an incremental calorie reduction plan. My sister gave me a bunch of recipes and bought me a whole bunch of fruits and veggies. Most of them rotted.

I am lying to them right now and saying that I am complying so that I can show no weight loss and I can tell Neil that he is full of crap. They got me this book called Volumetrics that shows how I can eat more food but take in less calories. BUT being the hedonist that I am I only like easy to chew foods that are prepackaged. I really need to start acting like "normal" people act.

It all boils down to behavior and hedonism. I know I am an extreme hedonist but honestly I don't care. I have never been this honest before.

chick_in_the_hat
08-14-2008, 09:33 PM
I guess I am looking for a reward greater than food but what is greater than tasty food.

Can anyone list even three things that would be a more powerful motivator than food.

What I may need is a higher purpose.

I think about getting married and having kids but I am too fat to attract a woman that I would find attractive.

There are a lot of things greater than tasty food....and believe me, I KNOW TASTY FOOD. :D

Here are the first two that come to mind.

Passing dudes with $5000 bikes and Lance Armstrong outfits on the bicycle trail. (I have a $20 mountain bike) :s:

Being able to shop for clothes anywhere.

There are a million more reasons...but you'll never know if you don't try.

:wel3fc:

Stick around...can't it only get better?

lifechange
08-14-2008, 09:37 PM
Your honesty is completely refreshing and really the first step. It is so easy for us to make excuses. I remember my doctor saying to me maybe your weight is do to slow metabolism lets check you for PCOS. I told her my weight was because I loved to eat chips and read a book or watch TV at the same time. It felt so empowering to be honest with people about it.
You can lose weight on prepackaged foods- you just need to make better choices. 1 step buy a package of turkey pepperettes- 50 cals, no or low carbs, not much fat (but you do need to eat fat to lose weight- don't go low fat) and a great snack.
You can get some great ideas from the people on this board and if whole foods is not your thing- don't do it!

fiberlover
08-14-2008, 09:37 PM
I love food, I love tasty food. I still eat tasty food. Dieting, or losing weight or being healthy isn't all about deprivation.

I don't know what your idea of tasty food is, but for me that isn't McDonalds or loads of chips and dip. Buffalo wings, maybe LOL!

I honestly just wasn't happy being obese. Yes, I had good self esteem, a great sense of humor, intelligent, all that stuff. But I just wasn't loving my body.

I have to say that the way I feel now has been so worth all of the time and effort it has taken me to get here. I am strong now, and fit and I love it! And I do still eat good food, now we have dinners out at nice places instead of running to Taco Bell or whatever. Food really means something to me now, it isn't just a narcotic that I use to drown feelings in mass quantity.

Only you can make the decision to lose weight and how to lose that weight. If you do it for anyone else, you won't make it. That's the statistic. Many, many people diet for others, to attract others, for events such as weddings, reunions and the like. What's the end goal at that point? When the event is over, what's your motivation.

The true successes on 3FC have found something else to keep them going, an inner strength that just pours out of their posts. I want some of that for myself, it's powerful stuff.

So if you decide to stick around and start the journey, we will be there for you. Take it one day at a time, one pound at a time.

BillyG
08-14-2008, 09:38 PM
Well don't lose weight. Eat everything you want. Hope you have good insurance to cover your future health problems. It also sets a great example for a poor lifestyle for your children so they can have health problems too.

I lost 214 pounds 30 years ago and have kept it off. I wasn't in the 98% because failing was not an option for me. I changed what I ate, when I ate, and my exercise and I was a success. I had very low self esteem when I was at my highest. I hated to leave the house. Now I have a full and active life. I am 67 years old, have a nice low blood pressure, no heart of cholesterol problems and I still workout.

You had things to motivate you. You hated being a glutton and you had one foot in the grave. Today people like me get great health care so we can afford to be irresponsible. I am an unabashed glutton. The difference between me and other fat people is I am not ashamed to admit it.

Maybe if I had kids I would behave myself. Most people in the US would not even find their kid's well being motivation enough. I am really not hurting anyone but the taxpayer.

Basically I am not like you. I am a real cream puff. I am not just saying it but morally you are a better person than me. I mean that sincerely.

lifechange
08-14-2008, 09:40 PM
By the way you know you won't be fooling your brother! He's on to you.

rockinrobin
08-14-2008, 09:43 PM
I think in order to lose weight and keep it off, you need to decide once and for all which is more important to you - eating the high calorie/high quantity food - or a BETTER, HAPPIER, MORE PRODUCTIVE, MORE MEANINGFUL, MORE JOYOUS, MORE REWARDING and hopefully LONGER - life. Not sure if you're "there" yet.

PhotoChick
08-14-2008, 09:44 PM
I'm going to assume that you really do want some kind of help here - or are at least trying to figure things out, given your honest comments that you don't' want to change. If nothing else, I kinda have to admire your forthrightness here.

The thing is that no one of us can convince you that there are things out there that are better than what you perceive food to be. I can tell you all the things that have made a difference for me, but that isn't going to help you because you can't FEEL that.

You asked: Can anyone list even three things that would be a more powerful motivator than food.

My response to that is that I can list 20. ****, I can probably list 100, if you give me time.
~ Looking at myself in the mirror and seeing a figure again - curvy and feminine, and not wobbly with fat.
~ Being able to wear clothing that makes me look like a woman and not like a blob.
~ Wearing a skirt for the first time in 8 years and walking by a mirror and thinking "who is that woman with the amazing legs".
~ Being able to climb the stairs in my house w/out having to pause and pant for breath halfway up.
~ Going out with friends and not feeling like everyone is looking at the fat girl and wondering what she's doing with all the good looking chicks.
~ Going into a REGULAR clothing store and trying on size 10 and 12 outfits.
~ Being able to do my job w/out feeling at the end of the night like I'd been hit by a train.
~ Wanting to have sex completely naked and not feeling like I have to hide parts of me from my guy.
~ Getting my hair cut in a short, sassy style that shows off my tattoo, because my face is slim enough now that short hair actually looks good on me.
~ Wanting to get another tattoo in a place where I'd never considered getting one before because of the fat.
~ Getting on the elliptical machine at the gym and doing 4 miles in a little over 30 minutes.
~ Squatting 75 lbs. Me!!! At the gym squatting the olympic bar with 30 more pounds on it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All of those things motivate me daily. Tonight my husband and I went to 5 Guys for burgers. He ordered fries and yeah, I really wanted a few. But every time I thought about eating some, I thought about the scale and how I've been soooooo close to the 150s for weeks now. I thought about how I have a size 10 sundress sitting the closet just waiting to be worn. I thought about how loose my black pants are right now. And I decided that was more important to me than a handful of french fries.

And I will admit that's a new mindset for me over the last 18 months. It is. I used to think like you - that what did it really make a difference. The fries would make me feel good and they'd satisfy me and who cares really about the rest.

Now that I have the rest, I realize how very very very very good it is. And I wish I'd been smarter sooner.

But none of us will ever be able to convince you that any of those things - or any other things - are more powerful than food until YOU decide to be open to them. Until you decide for YOU that a yummy apple with cheese is something you want *more* than you want a bag of greasy, salty, processed chips ... no one is giong to be able to convince you otherwise.

.

lifechange
08-14-2008, 09:46 PM
Billy, If you are as adamant as you appear- I am not one to advocate surgery, but you might want to look at duodenal switch WLS- the lifestyle change from a food perspective is not so drastic-you can continue to eat the way you eat now for the most part but you aren't absorbing the fat. Drawbacks-risk of surgery, significant vitamin supplementation. Look into it as one of your options. I don't think the other WLS would work for you if you aren't willing to change your food choices.

PhotoChick
08-14-2008, 09:50 PM
Oh, and about this:

Today people like me get great health care so we can afford to be irresponsible.

I'm gonna assume that you're fairly young and haven't yet begun to suffer the REAL problems associated with being extremely overweight. When the pain begins, maybe you'll change your mind.

Having new joints put in is NOT a simple or painless thing. My BIL had his knee joint replaced a few years ago. He's not even overweight - and he's a former Marine (macho as all getout) and yet the pain and struggle of rehab with his new knee joint brought him to tears many times.

My grandmother was severely overweight and had diabetes. She never controlled it. The last 10 years of her life were horrific. She had no quality of life. She went nearly blind (this for a woman who loved to read and sew and do needlework). She couldn't walk very far. She had to give up everything she loved because she was no longer capable. In the end she was asking to be let go.

You seem to have this view that modern medicine will keep you "healthy" despite being overweight. But eventually you'll realize how wrong you are.

.

bargoo
08-14-2008, 09:52 PM
Why did you come to this forum ?

kaplods
08-14-2008, 10:14 PM
From one hedonist to another. Hedonism can be just as big a motivator for weight loss as it can be for unrestrained gluttony. I'm still a glutton, I just am more in control of my gluttony than my gluttony is in control of me. Actually, I think I'm a more "selective" glutton (so now I'm a snob as well as a hedonist), more the gourmet than the gourmand. There are as many wonderful (sinfully wonderful, not just "kind of nice" low calorie foods as there are high calorie ones - actually more).

No Billy, I'm not afraid of death at all. I am a Christian, not as devote as my husband, and I don't have his simple, unquestioning faith - I am definitely a Thomas, wanting to know how, and why and "are you sure?" but I am not afraid to die tomorrow, or in five minutes for that matter. I figure there are two options, as a Christian, either my faith is right, and I'll be in heaven, or at my most doubt-filled times, there is nothing and death will be nothing, so I have "nothing" to lose. Either way, I'm "covered."

I too thought that I would never attract a man I found attractive, but I was wrong. I met my husband, and he's a fat guy too. Maybe I wouldn't have been attracted to him on the street, if I hadn't met him by phone first and fallen half in love before I saw him in-person. He's actually very handsome, in a viking-biker sort of way, and I'm not the only person who thinks so. I'm incredibly annoyed at how many women are willing to flirt with him in my presence (I'm obviously too fat to be seen as a REAL threat to them) even though he's cart-bound now (finally succumbing to a non-weight related bone and joint disease he inherited from his mother). His big, vibrant, outgoing personality is what I guess all those ladies are finding so attractive. I know it's what I do.

Fear did not motivate me in the least. When I was younger, I often didn't take dieting very seriously, my fat wasn't creating much of an impact on my life, and even at my highest weights I was able to do all the things I wanted to do, but slowly, without my realizing it my life started shrinking.

I was on disability when I finally started asking myself how had my life gotten so small, and how I could make it bigger. I just wanted to have MORE in my life, and I decided that I deserved it, and I was going to get it.

I had been working as a computer programmer (having changed careers from one in social service/teen addiction treatment, because I didn't have the physical stamina for all of the traveling involved in the job), and I'd been putting so much energy into my career, there wasn't time for much else. My health deteriorated and left even less time for anything but work, and finally my health deteriorated to the point, that I couldn't work. Then I had NOTHING left, but food and my husband (who was still working at the time, now he's disabled as well).

Basically what changed, is that I wanted a bigger life, and my life was so small that it could only get bigger, and I finally had the time for myself. I had nothing but time for myself.

It started with "writing the novel" I'd started twenty years ago. Bit, by bit I added things to my life, and some of those things had the side effect of shaving off a few pounds. I love to cook, and with hubby working and me home all day, I had time to cook. There are TONS of great recipes online, and I'm pretty handy with improvisation, so I started cooking. I've always LOVED healthy food, in fact it's my preference. Working all the time, my husband and I ate alot of food that was fast, but not particularly healthy. Cooking at home, I ate a lot fewer calories without even realizing it, and it seemed like I was actually eating more (check out the Volumetrics book, it really has a great principle - feel like you're eating more on fewer calories).

I thought about all of the other things I wanted to add to my life, and I started to add them. When I bought my bike I think it's been two summers ago, I decided that I wanted to ride a bike. We have some very beautiful bike trails in our area, and I thought "I deserve to ride a bike as much as the next person, as much as any skinny person (I may not have used the word person)". So hubby and I bought bikes (after doing some research as to whether there was special equiptment we'd need as super fat bike riders, as it turns out mostly not just a sturdy plain bike and a gel seat). I ended up having to buy a bigger gel seat than the one that came with the bike (my first five minute bike ride resulted in an injury my husband referred to as my being sexually assaulted by a bicycle - and he wasn't too far off).

Yep, just making a bigger life for myself is my only secret, my only change. I do more and go more places, because I want those things (hedonism and greed are my motivation).

Food still is on my my top five list of all-time favorite things. My husband, but not much else, outranks it. We're dedicated, even addicted foodies. I'm a condiment fanatic (even considering going to the Mustard Museum here in Wisconsin), and my husband and I have struck a deal - when I can get my condiments in the fridge down to just one shelf, we're going to the Mustard Museum). I watch the Food Network every day.

So I'm just as food-obsessed as ever, but I can tell you ten thousand ways to enjoy food on a calorie-controlled plan. In fact, I'm probably enjoying food more than ever, because I go the extra mile to make sure it's high quality stuff. And my taste-buds have become much more sensitive, the more crap I don't eat. I will spend a small fortune just on fresh fruit. Ranier cherries, white nectarines, ugli fruit (at $2 a fruit), fresh blackberries, super sweet varieties of pineapple (anything with Gold in the variety name). Watermelon, oh i love watermelon. In the summer I could live on watermelon and sweetcorn - real midwest sweetcorn, with the little juicy kernels, not the big dry kernals cityfolk think is good... Yikes, my mouth is watering.

And proteins - shrimp, lobster, crab, chicken, cheese, beef (steak, even liver - I love liver and onions) I love it all, and I can have it all, as long as most of the time I pick the lower calorie (but just as delicious) options. And it doesn't have to be fried for me to enjoy it. And if I want something that is high in calories - I don't have to eat it often, because there are so many wonderful choices that are low calorie (I make a South American shrimp cocktail I could LIVE on, and a huge portion barely makes a dent in my food allowance for the day).

Thai food - OMG how I love thai food - and a lot of it is very low in fat and calories, even low carb. Green papaya salad (jalapeno peppers a sweet and sour garlicky dressing, oh just about orgasmically delicious). Laab, a lean beef salad, spicy with lemon grass and cilantro and sometimes thin green beans.

Well, I could really go on and on and on, but really the secret for me really was just wanting a bigger life, and adding those things to my life one by one. Some of those things, I didn't even know I wanted. I certainly wouldn't have guessed that I wanted a bicycle. It wasn't until I thought I might be able to ride one that I even gave it a thought. The dog walking, I decided to do because I wanted a dog and our landlord won't allow it (I think our crabby, old, fat cat would have something to say about it as well), so I get to add dogs to my life by dog walking.

I swim at the warm water pool because I LOVE it. I hate seeing people sacrifice a way to enjoy such an amazing activity because they're afraid to be seen in a swimsuit. Anyone who doesn't want to see my fat, butt doesn't have to look at it. In the water, I am strong and young again. I can do all the things in the water I can't do on land, that's a big thing and I wouldn't let anyone take that away from me, least of all me.

A bigger life, that's it. And my life did not expand overnight. I just added more and more things in it, and food became less and less important (even though, as I said, it's still in the top 5).

JayEll
08-14-2008, 10:59 PM
Hey BillyG,

I get you on the existential thing. It isn't death that bothers me, it's being sick and incapacitated for a long, long time.

I think you must not be too old yet. You have time enough to take a different path. We have "roosters" on the board who have lost over 100 pounds--way over.

It's true that it doesn't matter what you do. It's up to you. This is the only moment you have. If you change, it won't be easy--but really, it's not easy for you now.

You wouldn't be asking, I think, if you didn't want to hear some answers.

Jay

mamaspank
08-15-2008, 12:15 AM
You are the exception not the rule. You sound like a strong inner motivated woman with a sense of honor and exceptional drive. I on the other hand am a lazy lummox and I am not ashamed to admit it.

I guess I am looking for a reward greater than food but what is greater than tasty food. Can anyone list even three things that would be a more powerful motivator than food. My self esteem is too high to be motivated by guilt. If I act5ually did feel guilty I would eat to relieve that guilt. A box of Famous Amos cookies and a tub of ice cream will vanquish that.

What I may need is a higher purpose. I think about getting married and having kids but I am too fat to attract a woman that I would find attractive. I can't or won't stick with a diet for more than a day. I even started a fat acceptance blog because I got sick of their phony mantras like fat by nature proud by choice and 2 4 6 8 we will not regurgitate.
biggerfatterblog.blogspot

I'm here because my family is on my case about losing weight and my doctor is recommending WLS and counseling.

I probably should take a shot at this because my family is so worried about me. They tell me I am in denial but honestly I know the consequences of my behavior.

Billy, I got to tell you, I have read your response to me, twice to myself and once outloud to my boyfriend, and I cannot stop laughing! I don't know if that is your intention, but you have a way with the words. Dude, the part about "too fat to attract a woman that you would find attractive" had me in stiches. I sort of feel like I am encouraging you. I will be checking out your blog. I am not sure if you are being genuine or not. If not, no big deal. But if you are for real, that self-deprecating humor will land you the lady you want; no problemo.

Crazy Cat Chick
08-15-2008, 12:22 AM
I feel the same way sometimes. The work seems so overwelming and It feels like everyone around you is eating something that you just cant. The truth is that its just easier to eat and eat and eat and not care about whats happening to you.

kaplods
08-15-2008, 01:26 AM
Human nature (and that of most critters) IS to try to find the easier way. To do anything, we need a fairly compelling reason. If you don't find a reason good enough for you, you won't do it. Simple as that. And that doesn't make you bad, crazy or lazy (at least not any more than anyone else on the planet).

But, no one can really give you that reason (unless you consider getting loved ones "off your back" reason enough, but most people wouldn't).

That being said, in my experience, when you're more than 200 lbs overweight, you definitely DO NOT have to be terribly motivated to make some progress. As long as you don't believe (as common dieting myth often implies) that you have to have "perfect" motivation and commitment to make progress. Or that only getting all the weight off "counts."

In graduate school, I found and embraced "fat acceptance" philosophy. I wasn't going to worry about my weight in the least, and I didn't, for a couple years. I didn't lose weight, and surprisingly didn't gain weight either. It confirmed in my mind, the theory that dieting "causes" most obesity (at least mine). And I vowed never to diet again.... and then I herniated a disc in my back.

The neurologist told me that losing weight might prevent the need for surgery, or would improve my chances of recovery if I did have to have the surgery. So I joined TOPS and went to the pool 3 times a day. I wasn't swimming to lose weight, in fact, at first I couldn't swim at all (being horizontal in the water put too much pressure on my lower back). I could only tread water, but the water and the freedom from gravity it provided also provided pain relief. In order to work (I was a probation officer at the time) after my sickleave ran out, I had to get into the water before work, at lunch, and after work.

I wish I could say I'd learned my lesson, but when I started feeling better, I went back to old habits.

And that's still a risk. A risk that will always exist.

The thing is that I no longer believe in futility. Oh, there is as good a chance that I could experience a relapse, just as my autoimmune disease (which might be in remission) could return. But unlike the autoimmune disease, I have a little more direct control over my obesity. Unlike many people who are successful, I do not believe that my obesity is entirely within my control - I only believe I have "some" control - and I control what I feel I can. The thing is, the more I get control of, the more control I feel I can have.

"All or nothing" thinking destroyed my weight loss efforts in the past, and I won't let it this time. Only 50 lbs made such a humungous difference in my life (heck, I can say the same thing about only 30), that I'll never again look at what I have left to lose. I don't know what I have left to lose. It might be zero pounds or it might be 200.

If I don't lose another ounce, those 50 plus pounds are still worth keeping off. Getting rid of the CPAP, being able to tie my shoes, lifting heavy objects over my head, taking a standing shower, not only washing my hair, but keeping it in a long style that I can braid every morning without my arms going numb, being able to sleep four hours not just 30 minutes before waking up numb or in pain having to flip on my other side, not having to use the Walmart cart, being able to walk a dog..... all the things I gained are worth keeping, and so I believe that I will - so long as I don't get careless.

To keep this commitment, I have to remember always what is at stake. This is the hardest part, so I "trick" myself a bit, by making a commitment harder to give up. Hubby and I became officers in our TOPS meetings. Selfishly, the power and authority and respect the positions entail feed our egos. We're just social enough to feel that the group "needs us" and that responsibility keeps us attending, when laziness might inspire us to skip meetings.

I'm one of the laziest people on the planet when I "don't see the point," and one of the hardest workers when there are rewards in it for me. If there were no rewards, I wouldn't do it either. I'm selfish, lazy, hedonistic, unorganized, attention-seeking and greedy. I'd be ashamed of myself, but I'm also intelligent, generous, creative, kind, and funny. Humanity... it's a mixed bag.

If any of what I've said sparked your interest at all, ask yourself if you believe you could lose 10 lbs and maintain that loss. Just 10 lbs. Are you intelligent and creative enough to find a way to do it in a way that in NO way is the tiniest bit unpleasant. In a way, that is actually more pleasurable, more indulgent, more hedonistic than what you're doing now?

Personally, I suspect you could, because I certainly did. Basically, by making very small changes. Often changes I could see as more indulgent rather than less. My first 30 lbs were pounds that I lost by "treating myself."

Treating myself to sweet tart apples smeared with a thin layer (not so thin at first) of nutella (actually Aldi's version of the chocolate hazelnut spread at half the price). Wow, so much better than a candybar because it took longer to eat and the sweet and sour is a stronger, more potent and decadent flavor experience.

Treating myself to shrimp cocktail every day if I wanted it (fresh salsa with cilantro, onion, jalapeno and tomato mixed with shrimp and avocado - and at first I wasn't skimpy with the guacamole).

Treating myself to huge bowls of good soup (even cream soups are often more filling per calorie than drier foods).

Treating myself to tacos that I could eat "in bulk" in a way that saved calories without sacrificing flavor (to the point I'm always asked for the recipe when I make it for company). My secret is using a not super lean beef, but mixing it with dry tvp so the tvp absorbs the little bit of extra fat. It absorbs the flavor of the beef, but dilutes the fat and calories per serving. I also sometimes add cooked wheat berries for extra texture and some black beans. And lots of spices. I buy the best low fat or fat free sour cream I can (if it doesn't taste "real" I don't buy it. Daisy and Land o' Lakes and Walmart's brand surprisingly make good light sour creams).

Hellman's canola mayonaisse actually tastes like real mayonaisse. I was shocked as I've never been able to find a light mayo that didn't taste like crap. I wouldn't have tried it, except it was the only mayo my parents had in the house when we visited.

My guess (because I did it) that you could lose 10% of your body weight simply by "upgrading" your diet. Not eating less, not eating "diet food," but just making some subtle changes in your diet that are at least as good (pleasurable, tasty and convenient) as what you're eating now.

Ookpik
08-15-2008, 01:32 AM
I used to eat fries and chicken and poutine (fries, gravy and cheese to all you non-Canadians!) several times a week, and whatever sweets I wanted. I am single, and if anyone would question me, I would think, "leave me alone--I don't smoke anymore, I rarely drink, I don't have a man (therefore no sex)...I'm not getting any other pleasure, at least let me have food". I had this thought often, until one day I thought, "I don't want food to be my only pleasure in life". Other reasons got me on the weight-loss journey as well. I am still not at goal, but my quality of life is a lot better. I could barely do basic everyday things...getting dressed every day was getting hard! Now I can jog, play softball, and do other physical things I couldn't do before. My job is pretty physical, and it's a lot easier to do now. I am happier, and my friends and co-workers say they can tell - I'm friendlier and more outgoing - I guess it just shows. And as for love - still haven't found the big love of my life yet, but I have had quite a few men show interest and I did get together with one, but it didn't work out. Nonetheless, I'm not convinced anymore that I will be alone and single forever and will never attract anyone, because I can.

I don't know where you live but I'm in Canada and if I stayed obese (I still technically am but not as bad and I'm working towards getting away from it), I could get free meds, etc. I never got to that point where I developed diabetes or needed a cart to walk in Wal-Mart, but when I look at how my life has changed since I was at my heaviest, I realize that before,I was just existing, not living.

For me, besides quitting smoking, this weight loss journey (I won't call it diet, b/c like others here, I changed my lifestyle, and have to do this forever) is the best thing I have ever done for myself.

chick_in_the_hat
08-15-2008, 01:45 AM
The thing is that I no longer believe in futility.

And that is it in a nutshell. :faint:

Not to disregard the rest of a bunch of very insightful posts....but that line floors me.

kaplods
08-15-2008, 01:56 AM
Not to disregard the rest of a bunch of very insightful posts....but that line floors me.
_____________________________

Then my job here is done.

Seriously though, I think the reason I ramble on and on and on... is that it increases the odds of me saying SOMETHING profound (unfortunately, when I do - someone usually has to point it out to me - so thanks, really).

Honestly, I think most diet advice I see is crap (to me). And I think that's true for everyone, you've got to find the bits that DO apply to you, and sometimes it's a needle in a haystack search.

I mean, many people talk about needing to be motivated, or committed, or wanting it "badly" enough, and for me that's been hogwash. In many ways, I'm doing this the laziest, least motivated, least committed way I ever have. I'm too old and lazy to want anything very badly, but I want it enough (just barely enough, most days), and that's all it takes. Wanting it enough to consistently make at least a half-assed attempt, and expecting to see results. That's it.

I always thought I'd like to write a book about losing weight, but "How to lose weight, the half-assed way," doesn't really make for interesting reading I don't think. Especially when I tell them it took me two years to lose the first 30 lbs.

Iconised Ghost
08-15-2008, 02:17 AM
I just have a few tiny things to add. First is one the MMPI study. Although the MMPI is a reliable and valid measure, as a self report measure it still has all the same problems that go along with self report measures. Mainly that people dony always tell the truth, even in anonymous questionnaires. So I have my doubts about that study

The second is about being motivated by fear of death- im not going to lie, I am afraid of death. Im 21 years old, i think its natural that it frightens me. What frightens me more is dying before i have done everything that i plan to do in my life. I am also motivated to be around for a long time for any future children, my family and my friends. My world is also pretty nice, so i am motivated to stay in it for as long as possible, and experience it to the full.

BillyG
08-15-2008, 02:45 AM
I have a couple of questions if you don't mind ...

Please explain all that free stuff.
How do you pay for your food?
Does someone bring you everything?
And ... what is it that you'd like from us here at 3FC?

I'm on SSI and SDI

Food stamps

I had to come clean about my character. If I lost the weight I could go back to work. There are 10's of thousands of people collecting SSI simply because they are too fat to work. I am one of those people. It's really quite shameful but like so many other people I don't care.

BillyG
08-15-2008, 03:46 AM
Billy, I got to tell you, I have read your response to me, twice to myself and once outloud to my boyfriend, and I cannot stop laughing! I don't know if that is your intention, but you have a way with the words. Dude, the part about "too fat to attract a woman that you would find attractive" had me in stiches. I sort of feel like I am encouraging you. I will be checking out your blog. I am not sure if you are being genuine or not. If not, no big deal. But if you are for real, that self-deprecating humor will land you the lady you want; no problemo.

What can I say? I guess I'm a hypocrite. I am unwilling to look good for a woman but I want her to look good for me so I guess I'm screwed. I suppose if I lost weight and got to a respectable weight and my libido would return and I would have the stamina to to please a woman but being the selfish clod that I am I really only care about my pleasure. My apron has pressed on my testicles for so long I don't think I am producing much testosterone. When a man gets as fat as I am we sort of become a non gender. I have male boobs like a lot of men have these days. I have bigger boobs than most women. My friends call me Billy Boobs. I'm really a poor excuse for a man. If I ever did love a woman the nicest thing I could do is not marry her because I would make a lousy husband. It must be worse for a woman to be with a man like me that it is for a man to be with a super obese chick. Men are pigs. Most have very low standards.

You seem like a real hoot. I like the handle MamaSpanks. :devil: I am enjoying this too. I find it cathartic. Maybe I will think about trying to diet. I know that I am disgusting to other people if I was only that disgusting to myself perhaps I would do something about it.

BillyG
08-15-2008, 03:53 AM
I just have a few tiny things to add. First is one the MMPI study. Although the MMPI is a reliable and valid measure, as a self report measure it still has all the same problems that go along with self report measures. Mainly that people dony always tell the truth, even in anonymous questionnaires. So I have my doubts about that study

The second is about being motivated by fear of death- im not going to lie, I am afraid of death. Im 21 years old, i think its natural that it frightens me. What frightens me more is dying before i have done everything that i plan to do in my life. I am also motivated to be around for a long time for any future children, my family and my friends. My world is also pretty nice, so i am motivated to stay in it for as long as possible, and experience it to the full.

You have come up with some noble reasons. It sounds like you want to be of service to others like family and friends. On the other hand I want people to be of service to me. I think the people here are sincere and they will probably have success but most folks are like me and they could care less about personal responsibility and acting like a grown up. I think what separates me from other people is I am honest about it. I have started a new fat acceptance movement that honestly says we are fat because we eat too much. I may be a fat *** but unlike other fat asses who do nothing about it at least I'm honest.

Iconised Ghost
08-15-2008, 04:02 AM
You have come up with some noble reasons. It sounds like you want to be of service to others like family and friends. On the other hand I want people to be of service to me. I think the people here are sincere and they will probably have success but most folks are like me and they could care less about personal responsibility and acting like a grown up. I think what separates me from other people is I am honest about it. I have started a new fat acceptance movement that honestly says we are fat because we eat too much. I may be a fat *** but unlike other fat asses who do nothing about it at least I'm honest.

thank you ^_^ maybe i am just idealistic lol. It sounds to me a bit like you have very little in your life that you love and are willing to fight to keep. But thats quite presumptuous for me to say

KforKitty
08-15-2008, 06:05 AM
I thought about this long and hard to find a deeper reason for why I have spent a greater part of my adult life morbidly obese (I've been 'only' obese several times for sometimes years but never 'normal' weight). I concluded that I have no great trauma or baggage in my life like many people here have but I agree with you Billy, I'm fat because I like food and ate too much of it, simple really.

I agree that I derive a great deal of pleasure from my food but as others have already pointed out there's a whole world of tasty, wonderful food that also gives me pleasure. For me creamy dairy stuff and sweets are the best. But instead of eating say a chocolate gateau with layers of whipped cream I now eat low-fat Greek yogurt with seasonal fruits and berries. I can honestly say I enjoy the latter more than I do the former. I also enjoy tasty spicy food and by preparing it myself instead of buying pre-packed and over processed food I can make just as tasty (I'd argue even more tasty) food that I enjoy. My number one rule this time around is not to eat anything that I dislike (FF cottage cheese, yuck)

Billy, I don't think you are really happy with your limited insular life but you really don't know what else there is out there to give you the pleasure that you get from food. I think you could start by trying new things and expanding your horizons. You challenged us to name just three things in our lives that are better than food and for me that was easy. So here they are:

1. My kids. They are now 15 and 9 and bring me much joy. Of course they are hard work at times but the effort I put into having a regular family life is paid back three-fold. Why would I want to leave my kid's life any earlier than necessary. If I'd continued being 290+ I bet it would not be many more years before my life would have been severely restricted by ill-health.

2. Travel. I love to travel and see new things and that includes tasting new foods:). Travel demands a certain amount of stamina to be pleasurable. This year I achieved a long time ambition and visited Egypt. I was 220lbs at the time having lost 70lbs. At 290lbs I would probably have been miserable with the heat and certainly would not have managed to do all the walking and climbing needed to see the wonderful tombs and temples we visited. At 290lbs I would always have the worry about whether aeroplane seats would accommodate my girth - I had no worries at all 70lbs lighter.

3. My work. Yes it makes me sound like a sad g*t but its true. I enjoy my work, it is rewarding in many ways and even at a basic level allows me to enjoy 1 & 2 more fully as it gaves me sufficient disposable income to indulge my passions.

So there you have it, if you can truly say your current lifestyle gives you all that you desire then fine, you'll have nothing to motivate you to make the changes to lose weight. However if there's something you'd like to do, somewhere you'd like to visit, someone you'd want to share your life with and your weight is holding you back from doing these, then set some goals and start making the changes you need to achieve these.

Kitty

MBN
08-15-2008, 07:38 AM
BillyG, the reality is, no one else can "make" you lose weight. Your family can nag you and we can give you all of the reasons in the world why losing weight is a good thing. But until you want it, it ain't gonna happen.

You post a lot about how satisfied you are with the current state of things. But, are you really happy, deep down? You don't have to tell us, you only need to be honest with yourself. I wonder if you aren't trying to convince yourself that everything is hunky dory. (Methinks thou dost protest too much) When habits are very entrenched, it's hard to change, but it's NOT impossible. You have to ask yourself, is the pain of change going to be worse than the pain of where you are right now? Maybe yes, maybe no. Only you can decide. You can't do it for "them", you have to do it for you.

I can tell you why I wanted to lose weight -- I want to live a long and healthy life, able to participate in activities that I love as long as I possibly can. Period. The cosmetic aspect is entirely secondary. It's all about feeling good, maintaining functionality, and striving for optimal health. The diet and exercise effort is worth it to me to reap those benefits.

If you decide to commit to change, there are a lot of resources available to help you.

kelligirl
08-15-2008, 08:23 AM
This is the first time I have read this thread. I represent the dregs of the human race and wear it like a badge of honor. Please give me feedback that I don't care about because me life is not worth it. Sounds like something someone who is severly depressed would say....:(

Venture a guess, but weight loss doesn't seem to be the real issue here.

Pandora123a
08-15-2008, 09:52 AM
Billy,

Why should you lose weight? You shouldn't! Despite all the positives that folks experience for themselves, it is because there are things they want that you don't. One thing I am very sure of, despite all the rewards for me, losing weight is hard, any change is. The positives only come after some negatives. (I find my food tastes changing, but before they did I really really missed the things I used to like. I don't miss them much now, but it took time for me to prefer other options.)

One thing I am very sure of, losing weight for someone else doesn't work. You don't want to lose weight. Don't. Your family can't make you have surgery. At most they can nag you, and of course to the extent you depend on them they can refuse to assist. I hope you are as honest with them as you are here. Don't play games about metabolism, tell your brother you don't want to lose weight.

I find it sad and amusing simultaneously that so many folks here want to convince you that you should lose and how wonderful it will be. Weightloss (or maintenance) is a personal choice. It may be awful for you. We complain about the judgements of others, I don't need affirmation about why losing weight would be good, I want to lose it. If you don't, okay.

I know the statistics are grim, I've been one of them for a long time. I hope and believe that I have changed things enough for me to be one of the 2% this time. If I am, it is because I have made some radical changes in my thinking and behavior. No one could make those changes for me, and no one could force me to make those changes.

Apparently you are pleased with your life and choices...so be it.

Others here are far more kind and tolerant. Me, not so much. This group is weight loss support. You seem to want to rename it "no weight loss support." You are completely entitled to do what you want, but 3FC is not about weight acceptance or promotion of being fat.

Beach Patrol
08-15-2008, 10:01 AM
Wow Billy. You seem really DETERMINED to not be "determined" at all. I can't quite comprehend WHY you're here. But you've been VERY honest & forthright & so I feel perfectly capable & completely OK in being honest & forthright with you.

Hang on to your hat... because everyone here has been so incredibly nice & accommodating to you, but I don't pull punches. You want honesty? BABY YOU GOT IT.

First of all, you say you are *disgustly fat* & that you *don't care*. Nothing is better in life than food. Think about that statement. "NOTHING IS AS GOOD AS TASTY FOOD." That's just pathetic. There are SO MANY MORE THINGS in life that are better than food!

You're diabetic. And you really don't seem to care, after all you get "free meds" & you have your "scooter" & so forth. You are not afraid of dying, you really don't care, you've said so yourself. So I guess you don't care that you might end up losing a foot or a leg or go blind. Yeah, big deal, losing a foot or a leg cause hey! - you already got that cool scooter thing! And that blindness threat.... oh Phhhttt! - you don't need to read or watch TV anyway, cause there'll be all that tasty food around to get you thru your days & nights.

Oh, & as for that FREE thing? Yeah, as you said, the only people you're TRULY hurting (besides yourself) is the TAXPAYER. Well, as a taxpayer, I'd like to say that I don't appreciate your attitude. Sweetie - IT AIN'T FREE. I'M PAYING FOR IT.

As for "wanting a wife & maybe some kids" but you've already admitted that you don't think anyone you'd be attracted to would be interested in you so why bother... well, I think you're absolutely right. It's not so much about the fat thing, but YOUR ATTITUDE. OMG, why would any person want to be with anybody who didn't care about themselves? You don't seem to care about your health, you don't care about being a burden on an already over-burdened system, & you don't care about dying or anything else - JUST FOOD. So tell me Billy - why should someone like me, who is struggling to lose the weight & who cares VERY MUCH about my health.... why should *I* care about *you*? Funny thing. Somehow I just do.

Billy - I won't apologize for giving you this straight up, heads-on, blunt & honest post. YOU NEED SERIOUS PROFESSIONAL HELP. That's something no one here at 3FC can give you.

I honestly wish you the best & I hope you find a way to turn your attitude & your life around. LIFE IS MEANT TO BE LIVED. You're not living. You are simply existing.

~Peace

Tomato
08-15-2008, 10:12 AM
Well, I just finished reading this thread from the first post to the end (currently BeachPatrol's post) and I have to say I am surprised nobody said earlier what BeachPatrol did. I was getting myself ready to post something very similar, but she said it really well so I would just like to add my name to it.
And I completely agree with her from A-Z, especially the part about not living but merely existing.

JayEll
08-15-2008, 10:57 AM
I want to take this opportunity to remind everyone that name calling and bashing are not allowed, so please keep the discussion respectful. We can have strong feelings without disrespecting other posters.

Jay

yoyonomoreinvegas
08-15-2008, 11:22 AM
I guess I am looking for a reward greater than food but what is greater than tasty food.

A quote from another poster that has really stuck with me: "Nothing tastes as good as wearing a smaller size feels" Even if it's only one size, I can't really describe the sense of accomplishment.

I almost get the feeling you're trying to get the rest of us to give up and join in with your "blob" movement. I think you're in the wrong place for that. Some 3FC members may originally start out with nothing more in mind than looking better but those of us who stick around get pretty quickly "converted" to so much more - meaning better health and a lifestyle that just feels GREAT.

You may truly be a food addict who needs professional counseling but something I found out - Swapping out Del Taco and Cold Stone Creamery for "clean" food (meaning fresh, with limited or no processing) seems to have made such an amazing difference in my attitude and outlook. Things that used to stress me so badly they would send me off into hiding in bed with that "what's the use" attitude (that you claim to be so proud of) just don't have the same hold on me as they used to - not to say I never have a bad moment, but they just don't last anymore. My entire outlook is different - with your current state of cynicism I predict you'll be rolling your eyes and snickering at this but I really have learned how to "stop and smell the roses". I've got a fantastic backyard that attracts several species of beautiful birds (including hummingbirds), butterflies, dragonfiles, bees - my own little oasis - but I never enjoyed it. I looked at it as a lot of work and expense. Thank heavens I didn't let it die because now, instead of plopping in front of the TV with a bag of chips and the blinds closed to shut out the world, I get enormous pleasure sitting on my patio watching finches with bright red feathers dining on my sunflowers. You don't have to have a backyard - try just spending a quite hour in a park or a public rose garden. Heck, sit in your scooter in the Wal Mart garden section for 15 minutes just looking at the plants - anything is a start.

You know, whatever your motives for originally posting here were, I for one am kind of grateful that you've made me look back at how I used to feel and made me realize how much better I feel now. Nope, no reverting back to the "blob" movement here. You've succeeded in making me reaffirm all the changes I've made so far, and recommit to continue making positive changes on my road to better health. Thanks.

So, see, you did succeed in doing something positive. Without even trying :D Imagine what you could do if you did try!

KLK
08-15-2008, 11:31 AM
I agree with this. Personally, I love food and I will never stop loving it, but I've learned to love/want REAL, fresh, unprocessed foods and that has made a huge difference. I didn't realize beforehand how I was literally drugging myself with high-fructose corn syrup, batter, sugar, etc. until I stopped consuming those things and I escaped their hold. Before I broke their control, I thought I would never be able to give up food, but of course, what I was eating back then wasn't really "food" but a collection of chemicals.

In terms of decadence... the heavily processed foods have NOTHING on fresh, minimally processed and unprocessed foods in terms of taste and how you feel after you eat them.

You may truly be a food addict who needs professional counseling but something I found out - Swapping out Del Taco and Cold Stone Creamery for "clean" food (meaning fresh, with limited or no processing) seems to have made such an amazing difference in my attitude and outlook. Things that used to stress me so badly they would send me off into hiding in bed with that "what's the use" attitude (that you claim to be so proud of) just don't have the same hold on me as they used to - not to say I never have a bad moment, but they just don't last anymore.

yoyonomoreinvegas
08-15-2008, 11:38 AM
In terms of decadence... the heavily processed foods have NOTHING on fresh, minimally processed and unprocessed foods in terms of taste and how you feel after you eat them.


Isn't it funny? A year ago, if you would have told me that my that my idea of a decadent treat was going to be a cup of chocolate soy milk blended with frozen (unsweetened) blackberries, I would have said you were out of your tree :lol:

kaplods
08-15-2008, 11:38 AM
Well, I just finished reading this thread from the first post to the end (currently BeachPatrol's post) and I have to say I am surprised nobody said earlier what BeachPatrol did.
__________________________________________________ _______

I didn't, because it is obviously what Billy was trying to incite. "Call me a jerk, and I don't have to listen to you," I recognize the sentiment. I've seen the sentiment when I was a probation officer. "I'm just a jerk and I don't care that I'm a jerk, and I don't intend to change, so what are you going to do about it?"

And I'll say what I said then, "absolutely nothing, I cannot prevent you from destroying your life, and the lives of all the people stupid enough to love you."

The "stupid" part, I have to admit I added for effect, because even the hardest of criminals would get upset that I had implied that their mothers or wives or children were "stupid," for loving them, UNLESS they were in clinical depression. It was a test, because if a person agreed with me that the people in their lives WERE indeed stupid for loving them, I knew that I was probably dealing with someone severely depressed.

If Billy isn't deliberately trying to bait us, or perhaps even if he is, I think counseling is more important than weight loss for him at this time.

cmichele1974
08-15-2008, 11:45 AM
It's a fact that 100% who never begin fail, and, 100% of those who succeed started.

There's nothing left for me to say here. Those two things are the only things that are 100% in weight loss.

KLK
08-15-2008, 11:49 AM
LOL right! And my idea of a great day off from work, or a great Saturday, back then was to wake up around 11:30 and then sit around all day watching TV and eating.

While I do still like to veg out occasionally, my new idea of a great day off is to wake up around 8:00, eat a good breakfast, workout for about an hour, shower and then leave the house and go do something.

Isn't it funny? A year ago, if you would have told me that my that my idea of a decadent treat was going to be a cup of chocolate soy milk blended with frozen (unsweetened) blackberries, I would have said you were out of your tree :lol:

Beach Patrol
08-15-2008, 01:40 PM
Personally, I love food and I will never stop loving it, but I've learned to love/want REAL, fresh, unprocessed foods and that has made a huge difference. I didn't realize beforehand how I was literally drugging myself with high-fructose corn syrup, batter, sugar, etc. until I stopped consuming those things and I escaped their hold. Before I broke their control, I thought I would never be able to give up food, but of course, what I was eating back then wasn't really "food" but a collection of chemicals.


THAT is a very powerful statement! I too, recently had the epiphany that HFCS & sugar has been a DRUG to me. I've never done any drugs - never even tried pot - but HFCS & sugar has been that deadly addiction for me. Breaking that hold really effected me physically, and yet mentally/emotionally, I suppose I will always grapple with it. My goal is not simply to "obtain thinness" - my goal is to never go back to being "HFCS/Sugar addicted" ever again.

BillyG
08-15-2008, 01:42 PM
Wow Billy. You seem really DETERMINED to not be "determined" at all. I can't quite comprehend WHY you're here. But you've been VERY honest & forthright & so I feel perfectly capable & completely OK in being honest & forthright with you.

Hang on to your hat... because everyone here has been so incredibly nice & accommodating to you, but I don't pull punches. You want honesty? BABY YOU GOT IT.

First of all, you say you are *disgustly fat* & that you *don't care*. Nothing is better in life than food. Think about that statement. "NOTHING IS AS GOOD AS TASTY FOOD." That's just pathetic. There are SO MANY MORE THINGS in life that are better than food!

You're diabetic. And you really don't seem to care, after all you get "free meds" & you have your "scooter" & so forth. You are not afraid of dying, you really don't care, you've said so yourself. So I guess you don't care that you might end up losing a foot or a leg or go blind. Yeah, big deal, losing a foot or a leg cause hey! - you already got that cool scooter thing! And that blindness threat.... oh Phhhttt! - you don't need to read or watch TV anyway, cause there'll be all that tasty food around to get you thru your days & nights.

Oh, & as for that FREE thing? Yeah, as you said, the only people you're TRULY hurting (besides yourself) is the TAXPAYER. Well, as a taxpayer, I'd like to say that I don't appreciate your attitude. Sweetie - IT AIN'T FREE. I'M PAYING FOR IT.

As for "wanting a wife & maybe some kids" but you've already admitted that you don't think anyone you'd be attracted to would be interested in you so why bother... well, I think you're absolutely right. It's not so much about the fat thing, but YOUR ATTITUDE. OMG, why would any person want to be with anybody who didn't care about themselves? You don't seem to care about your health, you don't care about being a burden on an already over-burdened system, & you don't care about dying or anything else - JUST FOOD. So tell me Billy - why should someone like me, who is struggling to lose the weight & who cares VERY MUCH about my health.... why should *I* care about *you*? Funny thing. Somehow I just do.

Billy - I won't apologize for giving you this straight up, heads-on, blunt & honest post. YOU NEED SERIOUS PROFESSIONAL HELP. That's something no one here at 3FC can give you.

I honestly wish you the best & I hope you find a way to turn your attitude & your life around. LIFE IS MEANT TO BE LIVED. You're not living. You are simply existing.

~Peace

You people are the exception not the rule. I have made feeble attempts to lose weight and make changes. The only difference between me and my fat contemporaries is I am being honest about. I believe that most of you will lose weight and most of you will keep it off. Weight loss is not rocket surgery. IT is all about energy expenditure and the will to change. I know that.

Unlike other obesity accepters and promoters I am not anti diet because I know that diets don't fail. People fail. I think that the folks here have a lean mentality and they really are thin people trapped in a fat body but for the rest of us we like the prison of our fat and that is why we won't change and play the games that allow us to fail with dignity. I am beyond dignity.

I hope all of you reach your goals and I think you will.

I am not ruling out the possiblility to attempting weight loss. I am not really looking for support. I am looking for clarity.

Beach Patrol
08-15-2008, 01:53 PM
You people are the exception not the rule. I have made feeble attempts to lose weight and make changes. The only difference between me and my fat contemporaries is I am being honest about. I believe that most of you will lose weight and most of you will keep it off. Weight loss is not rocket surgery. IT is all about energy expenditure and the will to change. I know that.

Honey, believe me - I am NO exception to any rule. I too have made those "feeble attempts" to lose weight & make changes. Nothing much happened.

BUT! - there's always a BUT! ;) - I didn't just lose the weight & keep it off. This is my SIXTH attempt. I have lost & gained 30-40 pounds five times before... now my goal is to lose 45-50 pounds. I can only hope that I learn something THIS GO ROUND that I didn't learn before - and that is to maintain the loss once I finally lose it. Because honestly, I think yo-yo-dieting is just as bad for you as not dieting at all.


I am not ruling out the possiblility to attempting weight loss. I am not really looking for support. I am looking for clarity.

Clarity, for what, exactly? That it's OK for you to NOT diet because you don't care? Sure - I believe in that. I believe that each person is responsible for his or her own self. And if you don't want to lose weight, then you won't. But if you... if you really WANT it, you'll find what works for you. And it may take several attempts (like me) or it may take YEARRRRSSSSS instead of months to do it, and you may only lose 50% of your goal instead of 80% or 100%.... but the fact is, it would be healthy & wise for you to START CARING ABOUT YOURSELF. And if you DO decide to diet/exercise... you won't find a more caring group of people than those who are right here. :^:

fiberlover
08-15-2008, 01:54 PM
I am not ruling out the possiblility to attempting weight loss. I am not really looking for support. I am looking for clarity.

What type of clarity are you looking for? Do you want someone to say that of course, you will fail? Or that change is possible?

I am not sure I agree with the statement that the majority of the people here are the exception to the rule. This board has had thousands of members come and go. Many of those are in the stats of not sticking with it.

I can't say I am a thin person in a fat person's body. I was never thin, so I don't really think that is the case. I am a former fat person in a thinner body now. I had to make that change happen, it wasn't natural for me, but it was something I wanted.

I do hope that you are inspired to make small changes in your life, whether you are going to just be content as you are or not. Small changes over time can add up to big things. Many times people fail at dieting because they do it all at once (food and exercise) and expect perfection. The reality is - it isn't about perfection, but about practice. You put your habits into practice and reap the results.

JayEll
08-15-2008, 02:26 PM
Hey, BillyG.

Here are some thoughts I have about clarity: Everything changes, nothing stays the same. I think that's pretty clear. So, it's not that you will stay as you are now, and neither will I or anyone else. To some extent, we can change the direction we're going. To some extent--because we're all going to get to the end of the road, regardless. And there are things we may not be able to reverse, and may not be able to reach. For example, I'm just not gonna be an Olympic swimmer! ;)

You can continue to gain weight, or you can try to stay the same weight as you are now, or you can try to lose some weight. Gaining is probably not going to make your life any more pleasurable. Staying the same weight might be a worthwhile goal for awhile--it's up to you. Losing would probably help with some things--you might be more mobile, might be able to get off of injecting insulin, might reduce your sleep apnea. However, depending on how long you have been obese, and how big you are, you might still qualify as disabled for a long time.

I don't want to see you unhappy and struggling--but really, that's what you are now, don't you think? I would bet that if you found a medically supervised program, you wouldn't have to be starving or feeling deprived. You could still have foods you enjoy, just in more constrained amounts. It is not really so bad!

What's more, you are not beyond dignity. I do not think so. In my book you are a precious human being, just like everyone else.

Jay

Starrynight
08-15-2008, 03:22 PM
BillyG..
I don't know if are really just trying to convince yourself or not about you not caring about your weight, but to not care about your health would mean that you have a very low outlook on life in general.

My father has severe diabetes and he is only about 15-20 lbs overweight. Diabetes is something that runs in my family and I've always been healthy but every year that I would gain 10 pounds was a year closer to being at-risk for diabetes. I can tell you, my father has gone through a lot of ****. When I was younger he actually have a get a small chunk of his back removed because it became infected. After that, he tried to control it, but he still ignored his diabetes. Oh sure, he took medicine and all.. but at some point he didn't make the total life change that he needed to and he is going through **** for it now. He became legally blind. He had to get various eye surgeries, TONS of treatment and shots, and now he is steadily moving forward, but VERY VERY slowly over these past 6 years. He used to be a real estate agent but his diabetes got so bad he had to go on disability. Do you think my father enjoyed not being able to see? Having to use a walker? Having to constantly go in and out of the hospital? Do you think he loves that he has to get shots every few months because it has seriously damaged his kidneys? Do you know how many times he has fallen and had to go to the hospital because of a low blood count? Sure, he isn't paying for it through his wallet, but it sure has taken over his life. If he gave up, he would have died. The fact that he is around today is testament to him eating better, losing some weight, taking his meds on time, and now he is even working little by little, trying to get his life back in order and he's been fighting and there isn't a day that goes by where he doesn't regret not caring about his health and life sooner. There are so many things he wishes he could have done in his life, and things that got pushed aside. I have no doubt that there are things you wish you could do (family) but your health and weight having taken over your life.

So don't sit there and tell me you are OK with your health.
I can't believe that you would believe you are content with your state of health because that would mean you really don't find anything else in life to be interesting except for food.
That isn't the case though, because part of you wants to have a family and you even said that maybe if you had children you would care, so it isn't that you are really happy with where you are, I really think you are just trying to not care to make things easier on yourself. You stated your family has been nagging you, and I think that if you are surrounded by a family that cares and loves you, then you must have at some point, had higher expectations in life until one day you decided "what's the point" and worked at warping your mind around this "I don't care, let me be" type of thinking.

I think you decided it would be easier to work at changing your outlook on your health and weight than to be unhappy about it and try and change it. You said you tried before, so that tells me you really aren't happy. I think there is something that goes beyond just losing weight with you, because you said you like the prison of fat and it sounds like you are just scared and tired of trying and failing.

I think you are lost and struggling inside, and you need to address and face whatever it is that has caused you to think like this.

The difference with this site is that there are many on here who WERE or TRIED to be at the place you're at right now, but they've taken the first step.
You think it is more acceptable to be happy with who you are than to try and progress for the fear of failing. This is what I believe based on the posts you've made, I really don't know though, only you do.

You say you want clarity, I think you need a little extra help in finding it, maybe talking to someone professionally and explaining all these feelings so you can get to the bottom of what makes you "different" from those of us that are trying.

I really do wish you the best of luck because at first I thought you were mocking us, but I can see that there is part of you that WANTS to feel motivated to change, and it is that part of you that needs to come out and expand. I hope you find what you're looking for.

kaplods
08-15-2008, 03:36 PM
I love to think I am exceptional, who doesn't? But, truthfully, I think I am not. I will gain every ounce back, the moment I stop caring. But that's true about so many things in life. You work on what you care about, and if you choose to, you can care about yourself, though you may need help in doing so (by that I mean, getting treatment for depression).

I would have never gotten my masters' degree if I'd stopped caring about my studies. I'm bright, and I never had to study "too hard," but I did have to put some effort in, or I wouldn't have accomplished it. Many of my peers worked far, far harder to get the same degree. And that's true of weight loss too, it may require different amounts of effort, but the degree of probability doesn't necessarily reflect the degree of possibility.

The percentage of people with a masters' degree, is probably nearly as low as the successful weight loss statistics, and the percentage of people with a doctorate even fewer (possibly more dismal than the weight loss statistics). Does that mean that no one should attempt higher education, because it's impossible? Well, it's obviously not impossible, because there are people in our lives (maybe even ourselves) who have done it.

So, I consider myself working on my "doctorate" in weight loss studies, and I am my own doctoral thesis. I am confident that I can do it, but there is always the risk of "dropping out." If I lose commitment, hope, dedication, or interest; I will regain the weight.

Hopelessness isn't always a choice. It can reflect clinical depression. Clinical depression makes EVERYTHING (sometimes getting out of bed) seem impossible. I have been depressed to the point of wondering whether it was "worth it" to get up to go to the bathroom (that's about as low as a person can get, I thought - but the fact is some people sink even lower than that and decide that it actually isn't worth getting up for).

Billy, with the attitudes and beliefs you've expressed, you most likely are clinically, and severely depressed. Anyone who feels they have NO dignity, is clinically depressed. Please seak counseling and medication.

In some ways, medication may make it seem worse before it gets better. You've got to be prepared for that. Sometimes it's like "waking up," and seeing where you've gotten. It can be traumatic and ugly. But very soon, it gets much better. Medication often gives you the energy and confidence to start working in your own best interest. To feel worthy AND capable of changing your life.

My husband and I just went through this with a close friend of his. The guy wasn't overweight, but he had sunk into a deep depression and had become completely uninterested in his family - to the point that he lost them. His fiance left with their child and the children from her previous marriage (who he had become attached to enough to want to adopt).

Only after they left, did it become clear to his friends, how low he had sunk. They persuaded him to see a doctor, and sure enough he was diagnosed with clinical depression and given medication and he saw a counselor once - because he was intending to move back to Wisconsin to live with family, decided not to start counseling until he got established here. Even just the medication has made a tremendous difference for him. He was able to get the house in order and sell it and return to Wisconsin. The fiance may be a lost cause, as she is seeing someone else, but he's having regular contact with the kids and is rebuilding his life. He got his old job back (the one he had before they moved to Missouri) and is talking about the future again.

I see you in that same dark place, in which your life has collapsed into a small, dark cave den. Many people when they are depressed, do not get "sad." I know I surely didn't think I was. My life had just become very small. I was even able to make that "den" fairly comfortable, so I convinced myself that I liked it fine that way. The only thing that would have made it perfect was pain relief, and the ability to sleep comfortably. If a doctor had prescribed Vicodin instead of lexapro (an antidepressent that was supposed to help me sleep at night) I might still be in that dark, small den.

So, seek treatment for the depression (whether you realize it or not, I think you're clearly there) and when you start to feel that you have the ability to get control of your life, you will start to get the clarity you seek.

lifechange
08-15-2008, 04:53 PM
Billy, you have alot riding on this. This is about your whole life- if you lose weight you give up government support and that means a job. It must be overwhelming because it will change your whole life.

You have a choice, join the living, get out and enjoy life, enjoy the great gift of outdoors and stop being invisible. You are clearly a bright intelligent person share that with everyone. Life is too short. Its not about being afraid of death its about enjoying and respecting life. I lost my 30 yr old cousin in a violent tragedy 1 yr ago, we owe it to ourselves to enjoy every breath of air and respect ourselves enough to be as healthy as we can be. Respect life. You deserve to give that to yourself- you just don't believe it yet. You are the same as everyone else here on the board, you have it in you-its just a matter of time.

Moonring05
08-15-2008, 07:06 PM
Personally, I would rather try to lose the weight and be happy then not at all. If I fail at keeping the weight off then at least I know I tried my best. My eating habits seem to be changing for the better. Instead of craving salty snacks, I am now craving fruits. I really think I can keep the weight off. And if I do gain a little weight back when I am done, well I will lose it again.

Not eating junk food isn't the end of the world. I have started thinking of junk food like this... it taste good for five minutes and then it's in the toilet later. It's just not worth it. Eating that stuff is not worth my health anymore. I LOVE the way I feel eating healthier, and I love my morning jogs.

I am sorry that you're unhappy and not willing to try dieting. That's your choice. There lots of things people have been told aren't possible, yet they do it anyway.

chick_in_the_hat
08-15-2008, 07:16 PM
Hey where does the 98% fail number come from? Where do the people who never need to diet fit in? 98% is a pretty depressing number until you can factor in the people who manage their weight without "dieting"....

Chubbs24
08-15-2008, 08:57 PM
"Hopelessness isn't always a choice. It can reflect clinical depression. Clinical depression makes EVERYTHING (sometimes getting out of bed) seem impossible. I have been depressed to the point of wondering whether it was "worth it" to get up to go to the bathroom (that's about as low as a person can get, I thought - but the fact is some people sink even lower than that and decide that it actually isn't worth getting up for)."

you hit the nail on the head with that one, kaplods. you couldn't have said it better.

Billy, I had [almost] the same thought process about failing, and life being too short, etc.
I've also struggled with full blown depression since I was a kid, and have had major issues with food. I nearly flunked out of high school at 15/16 years old my sophomore year. I missed 40 days of school in the second semester itself, and didn't give a damn about anything anymore. I would stay up all night long, and just slept it off during the day. I often contemplated jumping in front of a bus. (it seems like I'm getting carried away here, but I've got a point to make)

I went from being the most un-motivated, lazy, had the 'nothing to look forward to' outlook, yet I actually managed to turn it around. . .But it was a slow process.
I'm now going into my senior year of high school, AND have started work classes at a trade school.
I'm still paying for the slack from sophomore year too. I gave up this entire summer, AND last summer to re-gain the credits I lost from the 'bad' h.s. year.
I honestly thought I was just going to quit high school, because I didn't want to do it anymore. And I was only 15-16 years old. I'm still to this day very stubborn, but it can also be a good thing, at least in my case.
I didn't know how much I was/am capable of. I even managed to lose a few lbs as well. I also had several failed attempts.


Billy, I can honestly say that I know you are capable of so much more. I can sense it by what you've stated so far. I can tell that you are very intelligent, and that you can do so much more than what you are currently at right now
As for your family "always on you":
They only do that because they love you, and want only the best for you. You're very blessed to have a caring family. And right now, it might seem like what they say/do is making you feel angry/annoyed/ maybe even sad, but that's not in their intentions, by all means. I hope that you will eventually see that.

I would/still do resort to food in stressful times, depressing times, and even when I was just flat-out bored.
The bag of chips might feel like your only friend at the end of a crappy day, but it can also be your worst enemy. I was always in denial, until I eventually realized that I maybe had a bit of a problem.
Realization is one of the first steps to getting better, and changing things for the best.
I, personally think that you're more than halfway there, Billy.

If it's dieting that you're worried about, then you are not the only one. Even those that are healthy, and have been successful in their diet attempts slip up, and make mistakes.
It happens to everyone; we're all human. It would be nearly impossible to never mess up a good day, ever.
Plus, it takes baby steps. You can't expect to make a huge change immediately, and keep up with it if you hate it.

Before this gets even longer than it already is, I really hope that you seek professional help, Billy. I'm genuinely concerned, and I truly mean it. If iI never got help, I don't even want to know what where I'd be.
I wish you the best, and if you ever need positive support, then you are in the best place for it! the people on this forum are absolutely amazing, and I don't know what I'd do without them.
Good luck Billy!
Remember that you are the only one that can make a change for yourself.

guynna
08-15-2008, 09:00 PM
Man, this has been an interesting thread! Kaplods, I especially enjoyed your posts, but many of you (y'all) have made good points.

I was reminded of all the healthy things I love: fresh strawberries; a long walk with my dawg; good sex; hot veggie soup on a chilly day; traveling and walking all over new cities; shopping for cute clothes; squeezing canteloupes in the fruit aisle; and on and on. I haven't lost much weight yet, but I FEEL GOOD, and I want to feel good for a long long time. That's WAY better than fritos.

The % of adult Americans w/doctorates is about 1%; I'm one of them, and it was hard, but I really wanted it and in fact I enjoyed it (mostly); I like school. I don't always enjoy making healthy choices, but I love the results. I love my life. Thank you all for helping remind me of that : )

anita

Tomato
08-15-2008, 09:09 PM
Billy,

Would you like to provide a correct URL for your blog? I cannot find anything remotely related to biggerfatterblog.blogspot

Thanks

thistoo
08-15-2008, 09:15 PM
Billy,

Would you like to provide a correct URL for your blog? I cannot find anything remotely related to biggerfatterblog.blogspot

Thanks

It's here. (http://biggerfatterblog.blogspot.com/)

ladybugnessa
08-15-2008, 09:21 PM
I feel OK now. I have free drugs for my diabetes. I have free pain meds. They can repair my joints for free. I have a CPAP machine for my sleep apnea. I have a handicap licence plate and Wal-Mart has the scooters. I can have glorious food delivered. Why should I give up all that for the long odds of losing 200+ pounds? I'd be a fool to try.

you don't have to give it up. enjoy it for as long as you can.

see no one can give you a reason to do what yo don't want to do.

i've lost 70 pounds over the last 2 years. my dh lost about 100 and then promptly gained it all back. i'm still losing. I don't have to take meds for anything (and i'm nearly 50) my blood sugar is normal. my cholesterol is normal. i have great insurance and can have any joint i want fixed but i don't need to. my sleep apnea has improved so much I don't need a CPAP machine. alhtough I can get one. I have handicapped plates for my DH and a bariatric wheelchair paid for by my insurance. LIFE is good.


I want to not have rashes.
I want to not be out of breath when i turn over in bed, walk to the car or get up off the couch and walk to the bathroom.
i want to live long enough to be a burden to my children. I won't do that at 300 pounds...


i have an ankle that i broke in 2001. it did not recover well and part of the bone is dead. to repair it might not work, the less i weigh the better is is for the ankle

with over 200 pounds to lose you are not even a candidate for joint replacement....

the truth is there is nothing any of us can say to make you want to lose weight.

losing weight as an adult for adult reasons (your health) is something that has to be internally driven. if you don't want to find that internal drive, I can't find it for you.

best of luck to you.

GradPhase
08-15-2008, 09:23 PM
Well said, Nessa.

Iconised Ghost
08-15-2008, 09:51 PM
i remember someone brought up how the free drugs are paid for by tax payers (i think it was Beach Patrol). If thats the case, its coming out of tax that goes to the health care system right? I would hate for someone to have to go without adequate health care that they need because I chose to be a burden on the system, without trying to do something about it, because i knew i could get "free" drugs

kaplods
08-15-2008, 10:35 PM
I have to say that the tone of your blog, Billy is very different than the tone of your posts here. I don't know which is the "real" you, but I have to say the messages are conflicting at best. Do you know what you really want?

Are you really that torn and conflicted, or are you just trying to manipulate and provoke.

That's the only unity I see in the posts here and your blog. You have contempt for most people including yourself. Contempt is NOT a hedonistic value. True hedonists are having such a good time, they don't notice or care that others may not be, and they certainly don't have contempt or disdain for anyone who has chosen a different path, especially if it seems to make them happy. You express contempt for anyone with religious faith, when a true hedonist wouldn't care. "Good for them, they're doing what THEY like to do," would be a true hedonists' view, if they even bothered to notice what any of the rest of us was up to.

True hedonism is much more joyful. The amount of contempt you express on your blog, shows you not to be a true hedonist, because if you were having such a wonderful time, you wouldn't notice or care what anyone else was doing or thinking. Contempt, anger and bitterness are the antithesis of hedonism. Hedonism is being the grasshopper, who doesn't have contempt for the ants, he's not even thinking about them, he's having too much fun.

For a hedonist, Billy you don't seem to be having any fun. Maybe it's time for a new philosophy.

BillyG
08-16-2008, 01:24 AM
I have to say that the tone of your blog, Billy is very different than the tone of your posts here. I don't know which is the "real" you, but I have to say the messages are conflicting at best. Do you know what you really want?

Are you really that torn and conflicted, or are you just trying to manipulate and provoke.

That's the only unity I see in the posts here and your blog. You have contempt for most people including yourself. Contempt is NOT a hedonistic value. True hedonists are having such a good time, they don't notice or care that others may not be, and they certainly don't have contempt or disdain for anyone who has chosen a different path, especially if it seems to make them happy. You express contempt for anyone with religious faith, when a true hedonist wouldn't care. "Good for them, they're doing what THEY like to do," would be a true hedonists' view, if they even bothered to notice what any of the rest of us was up to.

True hedonism is much more joyful. The amount of contempt you express on your blog, shows you not to be a true hedonist, because if you were having such a wonderful time, you wouldn't notice or care what anyone else was doing or thinking. Contempt, anger and bitterness are the antithesis of hedonism. Hedonism is being the grasshopper, who doesn't have contempt for the ants, he's not even thinking about them, he's having too much fun.

For a hedonist, Billy you don't seem to be having any fun. Maybe it's time for a new philosophy.

If you were more familiar with fat acceptance you would better understand what my blog is about. My blog is a critical reaction to the current fat acceptance movement that has become splintered schizophrenic and intellectually dishonest. I was very active in the movement and was a major contributor to big fat blog but is simply ran out of BS. I am the cause of my extreme obesity. I am not going to blame my genetics because I know better ans so does everyone else. Do I think people should be accepting of the obese? I guess my answer would be; it is not up to me or anyone else to demand that one group of people treat another group of people a certain way. I'm not God and the only will and behavior I can control is my own.

The reality is more fat people are like me than like the people on this site. Originally I said 98% of diet attempts fail. The fat acceptance movement's propaganda says 98% of diets fail. I make a distinction with a difference. Diets don't fail. People fail to comply and therefore do not lose weight and maintain good health. Again, I am like the 67% of Americans who are fat or obese and will not make the changes needed to get and stay thin but I am thinking of taking a shot at getting in shape just to prove I can do it. If only I were not a weak willed selfish glutton. Heck if only most Americans were not weak willed selfish gluttons. This is not easy for me to admit as I have an over inflated ego but then again that does not make me unique.

I have gotten help here. I gained wisdom and insight and it has been a great sounding board for me. I have admitted the exact nature of my "wrongs". I am still stuck at the idea of giving up my gluttony. It is though I lose more than I gain. Now like so many others like me I am living the life of Riley and I don't feel the slightest tinge of guilt.

Why should I pull my weight and pay my own freight? What is in it for ME?

brandnewme
08-16-2008, 01:40 AM
Why should I pull my weight and pay my own freight? What is in it for ME?

Something that you and only you can decide is worth the fight. What's in it for you is your life. You choose how you live it and how you die it.

You don't want to lose weight? Great.. you're choosing a path that will certainly lead you to death far sooner than you could otherwise expect to live. You're also causing your family members more pain and anguish because they have to watch you die a slow, miserable death rather than live life to your fullest potential.

Wait.. you said you didn't care about death, so let's move on to the next part. You don't want to give up eating? Hey guess what.. you really don't have to. It all goes back to choices. Do you choose a meal that is filling, healthy, and delicious? Or do you choose a meal that is bland at best, and a heart attack waiting to happen in most cases? Fast food and packaged foods tend to taste like greasy cardboard. Even when I was regularly eating out, I couldn't say I truly enjoyed it - it was simply easier.

You say you'll never attract the kind of woman you'd be attracted to. Fair enough, but it's 99% in your attitude rather than anything else. Not a criticism, merely an observation.You have high expectations for your 'mate' but have rather low and discouraging expectations for yourself. Life is, once again, about the choices you make. You choose to not expect much for yourself, so potential 'mates' won't expect much either.

For every excuse you can come up with, each and every one of us here can come up with a solution or probably ten. Except, that's really not going to help you because it has to be your choice.

You want reasons to lose weight? I can give you many. But for reasons why you should lose weight.. well, I can't help you with that. Best of luck.

BillyG
08-16-2008, 02:22 AM
I love to think I am exceptional, who doesn't? But, truthfully, I think I am not. I will gain every ounce back, the moment I stop caring. But that's true about so many things in life. You work on what you care about, and if you choose to, you can care about yourself, though you may need help in doing so (by that I mean, getting treatment for depression).

I would have never gotten my masters' degree if I'd stopped caring about my studies. I'm bright, and I never had to study "too hard," but I did have to put some effort in, or I wouldn't have accomplished it. Many of my peers worked far, far harder to get the same degree. And that's true of weight loss too, it may require different amounts of effort, but the degree of probability doesn't necessarily reflect the degree of possibility.

The percentage of people with a masters' degree, is probably nearly as low as the successful weight loss statistics, and the percentage of people with a doctorate even fewer (possibly more dismal than the weight loss statistics). Does that mean that no one should attempt higher education, because it's impossible? Well, it's obviously not impossible, because there are people in our lives (maybe even ourselves) who have done it.

So, I consider myself working on my "doctorate" in weight loss studies, and I am my own doctoral thesis. I am confident that I can do it, but there is always the risk of "dropping out." If I lose commitment, hope, dedication, or interest; I will regain the weight.

Hopelessness isn't always a choice. It can reflect clinical depression. Clinical depression makes EVERYTHING (sometimes getting out of bed) seem impossible. I have been depressed to the point of wondering whether it was "worth it" to get up to go to the bathroom (that's about as low as a person can get, I thought - but the fact is some people sink even lower than that and decide that it actually isn't worth getting up for).

Billy, with the attitudes and beliefs you've expressed, you most likely are clinically, and severely depressed. Anyone who feels they have NO dignity, is clinically depressed. Please seak counseling and medication.

In some ways, medication may make it seem worse before it gets better. You've got to be prepared for that. Sometimes it's like "waking up," and seeing where you've gotten. It can be traumatic and ugly. But very soon, it gets much better. Medication often gives you the energy and confidence to start working in your own best interest. To feel worthy AND capable of changing your life.

My husband and I just went through this with a close friend of his. The guy wasn't overweight, but he had sunk into a deep depression and had become completely uninterested in his family - to the point that he lost them. His fiance left with their child and the children from her previous marriage (who he had become attached to enough to want to adopt).

Only after they left, did it become clear to his friends, how low he had sunk. They persuaded him to see a doctor, and sure enough he was diagnosed with clinical depression and given medication and he saw a counselor once - because he was intending to move back to Wisconsin to live with family, decided not to start counseling until he got established here. Even just the medication has made a tremendous difference for him. He was able to get the house in order and sell it and return to Wisconsin. The fiance may be a lost cause, as she is seeing someone else, but he's having regular contact with the kids and is rebuilding his life. He got his old job back (the one he had before they moved to Missouri) and is talking about the future again.

I see you in that same dark place, in which your life has collapsed into a small, dark cave den. Many people when they are depressed, do not get "sad." I know I surely didn't think I was. My life had just become very small. I was even able to make that "den" fairly comfortable, so I convinced myself that I liked it fine that way. The only thing that would have made it perfect was pain relief, and the ability to sleep comfortably. If a doctor had prescribed Vicodin instead of lexapro (an antidepressent that was supposed to help me sleep at night) I might still be in that dark, small den.

So, seek treatment for the depression (whether you realize it or not, I think you're clearly there) and when you start to feel that you have the ability to get control of your life, you will start to get the clarity you seek.

Believe me you are exceptional. You are part of the 2% with the decency and social responsibility to change your behaviors.

I am not depressed at all. I have no symptoms whatsoever of clinical depression. They give out anti-depressants like candy. Realistically speaking only a tiny percentage of people suffer from real depression. I think my outlook and and neuro chemistry would be better is I got some exercise and got off the Vicodin but there is no pay off. I could get fit enough to work and be a wage slave but why should I when all my needs are being met with no effort on my part??

Your friend really had clinical depression I honestly don't have depression. I enjoy TV, talking on the phone, eating, net surfing, reading, chess, writing. My life is quite joyful actually. I have not complaints.

Let's look at this logically. We all have to die sometime. Most people have terrible lives. They starve or get disease, live in a terrible country. Look how horribly women in the Middle East are treated. They treat them like cattle and kill them and rape them just because they can. If there is a god running this whole mess I want to get the better of him. We are a society of consumers. That is our birth right. What else is there really?

Iconised Ghost
08-16-2008, 02:31 AM
...how does being over weight get back at god?

BillyG
08-16-2008, 02:45 AM
Something that you and only you can decide is worth the fight. What's in it for you is your life. You choose how you live it and how you die it.

You don't want to lose weight? Great.. you're choosing a path that will certainly lead you to death far sooner than you could otherwise expect to live. You're also causing your family members more pain and anguish because they have to watch you die a slow, miserable death rather than live life to your fullest potential.

Wait.. you said you didn't care about death, so let's move on to the next part. You don't want to give up eating? Hey guess what.. you really don't have to. It all goes back to choices. Do you choose a meal that is filling, healthy, and delicious? Or do you choose a meal that is bland at best, and a heart attack waiting to happen in most cases? Fast food and packaged foods tend to taste like greasy cardboard. Even when I was regularly eating out, I couldn't say I truly enjoyed it - it was simply easier.

You say you'll never attract the kind of woman you'd be attracted to. Fair enough, but it's 99% in your attitude rather than anything else. Not a criticism, merely an observation.You have high expectations for your 'mate' but have rather low and discouraging expectations for yourself. Life is, once again, about the choices you make. You choose to not expect much for yourself, so potential 'mates' won't expect much either.

For every excuse you can come up with, each and every one of us here can come up with a solution or probably ten. Except, that's really not going to help you because it has to be your choice.

You want reasons to lose weight? I can give you many. But for reasons why you should lose weight.. well, I can't help you with that. Best of luck.

I can't argue with most of what you say other than the misery of my death (DRUGS will make that easy) and the taste of junk food. Junk food RULES!

Everything else you say I agree with 100%. You are obese right? It looks like you may have been obese for quite some time right? Please don't take this wrong but what has taken you so long to get on the band wagon and why do you think you will stick with it?

I an a glutton therefore I don't like to do anything that I don't want to do like cooking. I suppose if Pizza, ice cream, chips and dip were not tasty enough I would be forced to cook like Paula Deen or Emeril and that other exquisite fat *** Malto Mario. All three of them will die prematurely but they are happy as **** fattening America and adding to our food centrism. Paula Deen alone is responsible for more artery goo and Lipitor sales than anyone. Gormandizing is a national sport. It's a win win situation. The food companies are making a fortune and the doctors are making an even bigger fortune. Gluttony is making a lot of people very rich.

BillyG
08-16-2008, 02:53 AM
...how does being over weight get back at god?

Most humans who have lived and died had had horrible lives. Look at the suffering, disease, plagues and starvation. It is still going on. Look at Africa. God, if he exists seem to take delight in the torture of humans and other living things. After reading the Bible and looking at reality that is how I see it. Sucking up all the pleasure I can now before god tortures me in **** for all eternity is my way of flipping him the bird. If I am going to miss heaven, I don't want to miss it by an inch. I want to miss it my a mile.

Iconised Ghost
08-16-2008, 02:58 AM
Most humans who have lived and died had had horrible lives. Look at the suffering, disease, plagues and starvation. It is still going on. Look at Africa. God, if he exists seem to take delight in the torture of humans and other living things. After reading the Bible and looking at reality that is how I see it. Sucking up all the pleasure I can now before god tortures me in **** for all eternity is my way of flipping him the bird. If I am going to miss heaven, I don't want to miss it by an inch. I want to miss it my a mile.

God still wins

Technically, you could say that you are making you suffer more. Because you suffer in **** for eternity PLUS you suffer for longer before you die. So you're not really sucking up the maximum amount of pleasure possible

GradPhase
08-16-2008, 03:20 AM
Most people have terrible lives. They starve or get disease, live in a terrible country. Look how horribly women in the Middle East are treated. They treat them like cattle and kill them and rape them just because they can. If there is a god running this whole mess I want to get the better of him. We are a society of consumers. That is our birth right. What else is there really?

I'll be honest. I don't like most of what you have to say. And I don't know what it is exactly you're trying to get out of the kind, generous women (and men) on this board - but it seems as if all you're here for is to argue your own importance because you have nothing better to do with your time. If that's what gets you off, so be it - but you've gotten answers, you've denied them all, and yet you've failed to search for your own - so as far as I'm concerned you're wasting people's time and kindness. I'm sure you're absolutely fine with that, but I'm not.

For the most part, when it comes to this thread I've been biting my tongue. You've tossed around ridiculous "statistics", you've boasted about wasting money that should rightfully not be yours to waste - at the expense of almost everyone on this board (sans the international community) and you've unabashedly taken advantage of the people and resources around you - and frankly I, and most others think you're out of line for doing it.

Now, as you can see from my stats - I don't have much personal advice when it comes to obesity or even being clinically over weight - but I am the only person in my immediate family who has managed to stay under 300 lbs for the majority of their lives - and I've been on the other side of having to take care of them, and watching them waste away. Even still. I've kept to myself. Because it wasn't my fight to fight.

But this makes me angry and I find your ignorance offensive. MOST people do not have "terrible" lives. MOST people do not have awful diseases or "live in a terrible country". As a Caucasian teen American girl, I've lived in a third world country. I've lived without running water. I've been veiled for more than three years of my life, and spent a very long time in the middle-east and traveling through the more deprived parts of Africa - and I can tell you "sir" as a matter of fact - every SINGLE PERSON that I encountered in my travels (which I'm making damn sure I can continue on by avoiding joining my family in the morbidly obese club) is overwhelmingly optimistic and grateful for life despite the news reports. Their sense of culture, and belonging, and the desire for life, and sense of *being* alone is insurmountably more valuable than what you're experiencing right now. They are the strongest, most admirable people I could ever ask to be in the presence of because - unlike you, they handle their hardships and KEEP GOING. They don't stop because they don't have that luxury, and they as a whole are the better person for it. And if you ask the poorest of people over there - despite their children dying from aids, or the fact that they lost their entire families to land mines or bombings - they love life. In their struggle to overcoming what keeps them down, they find reasons to seek and discover the joys and love of life. Not even you, sir, as self righteous and important as you think you are - have any right to assume or deny them of that pride and accomplishment in some sort of late night rant making false judgments about how surely, of course, they're all miserable unhappy people.


That's all I've got to say.


Edited to add - Sorry Jay if you feel any of this is out of line. Feel free, of course, to edit as you wish. Not meaning to offend, just defend.

kaplods
08-16-2008, 03:29 AM
Billy, even if you lost the weight, you could still sponge off society. I've seen plenty of people do it. You're not on disability for being fat, and neither am I, nor my husband. Sure obesity played a role in our illnesses, but losing weight isn't going to automatically put us back in the workforce either.

You don't get disability for being fat. I've been over 300 lbs more often than not since college graduation in 1984 (I dieted to 255 for a friends wedding and regained it all after the wedding). I worked, I nearly always worked the equivalent of two full time jobs (I worked full time with lots of overtime for all but the first semester of graduate school). I worked at nearly 400 lbs, and there were people fatter and older than me working too. One guy in my department had to weigh 600 lbs, and was on oxygen for emphysema and he made it to work every day, for the five years I was with the company, and he's probably still there unless he's died.

And if you don't want to make changes, no one can make you. You've asked what's in it for you, but you already know that, you're not stupid. A bigger life, and if you don't want a bigger life or just don't think one is within your grasp, then you won't get one.

There's quite a bit of evidence that the 98% statistics are skewed, and that skewing is fairly well understood. Success rates are probably much higher, because the 98% who fail are those in hospital and funded research programs. By the time someone is considering one of those programs, and is willing to be part of a research study, they've tried and failed hundreds of times on their own. The success rate of people who never get to that point, isn't one that is easy to determine, because those successful people aren't easy to count, because they never volunteer for those weight loss studies.

If I succeed at this, who is going to know? In fact, I already have 50 lbs of success, where do I sign up to have the statistics "count me?" They're not going to.

So how much of an exception am I really? I don't know. But the thing is, if you've only given a couple "feeble attempts," you don't know if you're the exception either. You don't even know how much you would have to change your life, because I can tell you it does not have to be a complete overhaul. A few small changes can make a remarkable difference even without a whole lot of weight loss (your gluttony and freeloading would not have to be jeopardized).

Even a feeble attempt can be successful if it's consistent. You could probably get some weight off and see some health improvements by making a few changes you'd barely notice. But you're not interested.

The world sucks, yada yada. Most of the world's "suckiness," is due to our sins - our inability to take care of ourselves and each other. Maybe famine, illness and all the other evils of this world would be resolved by now, if we put our resources into resolving those issues rather than paying and valuing professional athletes and celebrities over doctors and aid providers. If the world sucks, it's our fault, not God's. Besides God doesn't exist, remember - that still leaves the blame with us as a group (humanity) and us as individuals (yep, that's you too) to blame.

And oddly enough, the people with the least, do seem the most grateful for it. They appreciate what they have to work for, and that may be the best reason to become self-sufficient again. Because like most people, you don't value what you haven't had to work for. It all seems like crap, because you are getting it "free," which only proves nothing is free. If you don't give back, then your life is pointless and yo more than anyone knows it.

But human beings don't want to live pointless, meaningful lives. We want to matter to somebody. Who do you matter to? And do they matter so little to you, that you're willing to cause them pain watching your decent. You obviously care enough for your family to "pretend" to be trying to change, or maybe you're just wanting to "get them off your back." If so, I can tell you they won't be fooled for long, so you might start considering a back up plan.

JayEll
08-16-2008, 09:40 AM
At this point I believe that BillyG's questions have received ample response, and so I'm going to close this thread.

As with anyone on internet boards, we have no idea what BillyG is really like. He could be a normal-weight person of either sex with time on their hands, who is getting a big thrill out seeing what answers people give. Or, he could be an obese person just as he says, without any motivation to change. I doubt that posters on 3FC can provide him with motivation, given his later posts.

I will say that BillyG has given us an opportunity to see where we all stand on the issue of why one would try to lose weight.

Jay