Atkins - Obsessed on foods




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Timlin
07-05-2008, 01:01 PM
Does anyone else get the feeling we are all obsessed about foods in this world today? We debate and argue about getting all the right balance and all the right ingredients by eating a very wide variety of foods. It seems to me we have a glut of food in a glut of variations and it's brought us to a strange place.

75 years ago most people had no refrigeration and most foods were grown in the summer and canned for winter use. Root cellars held veggies over for winter use and animal meats were canned like veggies and fruit. But only the very fortunate had enough to really last them until the next harvest came in. They ate very restriced amounts and variations over the winter months.

No one every heard of eating fruit in the winter if it wasn't canned (with a ton of sugar included). Often you heard the term "the meal months" and that was a time at the end of the season, before the harvest was ready, when folks lived on what amounted to oatmeal porrage.

My ancestors lived exclusively on potatoes and so did many in Finland and France and other countries. They added in a wee bit of cabbage and maybe an onion if they were lucky. These people, as long as the potato was available to them, were completely healthy and had healthy children....and lots of them. They often lived to be 80 years old without much illness affecting them.

Do you think we are a bit obsessed with all this food issue? We load our cupboards and eat a grand variety of veggies, friut all year round, meat of all sorts and cuts.......and we live in fear of not getting the balance right. Everyone accusses everyone else of eating a very poor diet and we blame every ill known to man on the food we eat....do you think maybe God planned this thing a bit better and if we eat reasonably of the good foods provided for us that we might all be just fine and have no need to worry?

If we didn't eat TOO MUCH food we would not have the weight problems we face and struggle with........maybe you really can have too much of a good thing and we humans are doing that in this generation? Are all the vitamins and suppliments necessary or are we just a whole world of silly worry warts?


shancey
07-05-2008, 02:17 PM
I totally agree with you! I was thinking the other day about how many calories were in nuts and how God must have designed them that way knowing that many of our anscestors couldn't go to a convenience store and by a large jar of them. God didn't intend for the high calorie content of nuts to be a punishment but a blessing.
The majority of US citizens have access to a ridiculous supply of food. Our portions are crazy and just tend to make us want more and more. My heart has been enslaved to food for years now. I would ask God, "Why me? Why do I have to fight this desire to constantly eat beyond what my body needs?"
I then realized that my weight was a way for God to draw me to him. To realize that I can't beat this food addiction on my own. To truly realize that without relying on him I could never lose AND keep it off. Every day I'm trying to turn my heart from food to him.

SoulBliss
07-05-2008, 02:29 PM
I then realized that my weight was a way for God to draw me to him.
Forgive me if this comes across oddly, but I really would like to understand this...

Are you saying God made you gain weight to make you become closer to him?

Or

Are you saying that you will use the weight you gained to help allow you to become closer to God?

Or

Something else entirely?

:)


Timlin
07-05-2008, 03:06 PM
Soulbliss if you want to discuss God and Food please start another thread. I really would like to hear how others feel about our food issues today.

SoulBliss
07-05-2008, 03:22 PM
Soulbliss if you want to discuss God and Food please start another thread. I really would like to hear how others feel about our food issues today.

Sorry! You and the other poster BOTH mentioned "God" and "food" in your posts in relation to food, so it doesn't seem off topic to do the same. :dizzy:

Alright then. I don't agree that people lived "exclusively on potatoes" and were "completely healthy".

My ancestors lived exclusively on potatoes and so did many in Finland and France and other countries. They added in a wee bit of cabbage and maybe an onion if they were lucky. These people, as long as the potato was available to them, were completely healthy and had healthy children....and lots of them.

I think that as science allows us to more fully understand the needs of the human body as they change throughout time in relation to lifestyle, habits and nutrition, the information will come out that shows us how to optimize health.

As with everything, some take it to an extreme and it becomes an obsession.

JulieJ08
07-05-2008, 03:56 PM
Of course, a livelihood dependent on hard labor makes an enormous difference.

Squid
07-05-2008, 04:05 PM
Gardening, growning your own food ~ may bring you closer to the source.

We need a variety of nutirents to keep healthy. Potatoes are good, but you can get pretty ill just eating them. I'm thinking suplementing tatoes with meat, fish, fruits and veg would make a healthy diet.

Skervy, Rickets, Loss of bone mass, anemia ~ Yup, a variety is the way to go.

As I like to say, everything in moderation. (k so i don't always follow that.... but i ain't gonna cast stones....)

kaplods
07-05-2008, 05:10 PM
This is probably the first generation that will not (on average) outlive it's predessessors. So, until recently, the increasing availability and variability of food was not inhibiting, but rather improving human health.

I don't think "variety" of foodstuffs is the largest part of the modern problem. I think the wider availability of healthy food options is a boon to health, not a detriment. Having 30 varieties of apples, instead of 2 or 3, for example, I believe is a great thing. Certainly for me, who never liked Red Delicious or Yellow Delicious (still the most popular, but at one time, the only variety consistently available). I like Granny Smith (the other variety that I remember being common when I was younger), but it's a little tart for every day eating, for me. Braeburn, Pink Lady, Cameo, Gala, Honeycrisp, Fuji, and many others changed my view of apples for the better.

Every year our farmers' markets get better (and more varied) and it's been a help, not a hindrance.

I think the modern problem is complex, but I don't think variety is the largest problem, but rather the entire social and cultural system. Advertising that pushes low nutrient foods (often disguising them as "healthy" by misrepresenting the truth, if not outright lying in order to do so). A culture that values convenience over value. The changing attitude that restaurant and convenience eating are the norm, rather than the exception. The decreasing costs of fattening foods, and the increasing cost of low-calorie "real" foods). The increasing acceptance of food that our greatgrandparents wouldn't recognize.

And not insignificantly, our biology. The natural order (whether you consider the origin God, evolution, or both) is well, naturally balanced. Eating, in the natural world, is an obsession that is healthy to have. Food, is the critter's first priority. And energy expenditure is the cost of obtaining the food, and in survival itself. You must hunt or travel and work to obtain the food and prepare it (for immediate or later use). For the leopard, this means running down the gazelle fawn and dragging it into a tree to keep it from others. It means fighting in defense of food, or in defense of their position among their own kind. For the gazelle, it means traveling great distances to graze (and a great deal of running to avoid being the leopard's meal).

The natural response to an overabundance of food, is overpopulation. In most species, overabundance, reults in overbreeding long before it results in overeating.

We've changed the natural order, and wondered why we've altered the natural outcome. I think variety is the least of our issues. We eat more, and we do less. In its simplest form this is the problem, the reasons behind this change, and what we can do about it is complex.

It is the natural response to eat as much as possible (which "naturally" wouldn't be much because of the limits caused by natural resources and competition for them) and do as little as possible (which "naturally" would still be a lot, because of the energy needed to eat and avoid being eaten).

I don't think we're by nature, more obsessed with food than in the past, rather we have a lot more time to think about it (as opposed to working hard to obtain it) than our ancestors.

SoulBliss
07-05-2008, 05:16 PM
I don't think we're by nature, more obsessed with food than in the past, rather we have a lot more time to think about it (as opposed to working hard to obtain it) than our ancestors.

Ding Ding Ding!!!

;)

Bingo.

Most of your post resonates with me, but that part above, especially.

snapless
07-05-2008, 08:58 PM
Excellent post kaploids. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Timlin
07-05-2008, 11:37 PM
Okay but my arguement was not that variety was bad. I love the variety we have been blessed with. My thought was that people have become obsessed with thinking they won't get enough vitamins and goodness from their food when here we are with the best variety and supply of food in the history of the world.

(you don't get scurvy or most of the other things you comment on if you have a potato diet. All the Vit C and other nutrients are in a potato.....all you need to be healthy......you just have to face the bordom of eating the same thing day after day for your entire lifetime. I can't imagine.)

My thought is that we are getting silly with our worry over food. We should never be lacking in any vitamin or mineral with the variety that is available in our over stocked supermarkets. We are so lucky and yet we obsess.

SoulBliss
07-05-2008, 11:55 PM
(you don't get scurvy or most of the other things you comment on if you have a potato diet. All the Vit C and other nutrients are in a potato.....all you need to be healthy......you just have to face the bordom of eating the same thing day after day for your entire lifetime. I can't imagine.)


A potato is not a nutritionally "perfect" food, containing all that is needed to sustain life and be healthy. It isn't. I am not sure why you think that it is, but it really isn't. :^:

Timlin
07-06-2008, 08:24 AM
http://www.mvproduce.com/spudfacts.html

Since generations of people lived exclusively on the potato and were very healthy and gave birth to many healthy children it would seem argueable. The only time they got in trouble was when the potato harvest failed them.

We tend to turn our noses up on things that sustained humanity for a couple hundred years because we have so much choice now and this seems to have caused us to have become obsessed with thinking we won't have enough vitamins and minerals from our foods.

I'm NOT trying to say you should include potato in your low carb diet.....I'm simply saying the potato was the food that sustained millions for a very long time.......I personally wouldn't want that one food diet myself but it did!

Squid
07-06-2008, 01:02 PM
The bigger problem is processed food and replacing fresh produce with boxed crackers, chips and bars.

I still can't get my head around perfect health on a potato diet. Yes potatoes are packed with goodness, but I don't think it a healthy diet alone.
You are correct about the scurvy, sailors who ate potatoes did not get scurvy at the rate of non potato eaters.
However the Irish, who lived mainly on potatoes were malnourished even before the great potato famine.

JulieJ08
07-06-2008, 01:59 PM
Timlin, where are you getting your information on life expectancy and general health in Ireland in the 1700s and 1800s? I would not have thought it to be so rosy a picture. I tried to google, but didn't really find much. It's all about potato famine, not about longevity and healthy when there wasn't famine.

kaplods
07-06-2008, 02:29 PM
Actually potatoes are not native to Ireland. They are native to the americas (south america, I believe) and were unknown in Ireland until nearly the 17th century. It's very difficult to guage the health of a people on less than 200 years of a dietary change. And being able to procreate is a very poor measure of health, because on adequate calories, even extremely poorly nourished people survive long enough to create families. They may not live to see grandchildren, but the records on the life expectancy of 18th and 19th century Europe are a bit sketchy, at least in comparison to modern times.

I'm not sure when potatoes became a staple of the poor, but even in the mid 1800's most Americans considered it only fit for animal consumption.

Also, while most cultures have a "staple" food and it's usually a starch (with the exception of people such as the arctic innuit and mongolian people who lived primarily on meat), NONE lived exculsively on the staple. No one in Ireland "lived" on exclusively potatoes. They ate a wide variety of vegetables and herbs, and lentils. Meat for the poor was scarce, but they did eat it. Often they were eating the animals and cuts of animals that were less appealing to the wealthy (organ meats, etc). Many peasants were allowed to hunt on the landholders lands, and when they weren't poaching (illegally hunting and fishing) was very common, so we can only guess at how often meat was really eaten.

Even in the arctic, where the inuit did live nearly exclusively on meat, their diet in the summer adds in plant foods such as berries and herbs. While the idea of an "exclusive food diet" is popular, it is more fiction than fact. Just adding "seasoning" herbs and vegetables (like onions, garlic, herbs, grasses and greens) can tremendously boost the nutritional content of a diet.

As for our modern "obsession" with vitamins and such. Nutrition is a "new" science. The first vitamin was discovered in the mid-1930's, so of course, it's a relatively modern phenomenon.

Though there are documents theorizing and advising on the "proper" diet as early as the first century (some with very modern sounding advice). So, I'm not sure that it's a new field of thought for people with time on their hands to do such thinking.

I think the biggest difference is that unlike ancient times, when only a few had enough leisure time to ponder on such things, we all (not just the wealthy minority) have the time to give the matter much thought.

Squid
07-06-2008, 04:42 PM
The Irish were given potatoes by the British as they were surfs.

Time to obsess plus convenience products, with a touch of couch potatoizim.........

Kaplods, nicely summed up! Vitamins were discovered around 1912 at Yale (Vit A), but were starting to come into play 1906.

kaplods
07-06-2008, 05:21 PM
Thanks Squid for the correction. I was getting my food history facts confused as it was vitamin C that was discovered in 1935.

And of course, the turn of the century really was a benchmark in terms of nutrition and health (and sexuality - though mostly to blame ill health on excessive sexual activity) becoming a common interest and pursuit of the common person (at least those with the time and money to do so) rather than the exclusive domain of physicians and scientists.

Spas and retreats were becoming quite popular (and as today, bizarre, unproven theories and outright quackery were quite common). Health and Wellness were becoming especially big business (there had always been profit in providing true and false "cures").

I'm not sure how accurately the movie portrays the times, or the historical figures (especially Dr. Kellogg), but The Road to Wellville (with Anthony Hopkins, Matthew Broderick and Camryn Manheim) is quite entertaining.

SoulBliss
07-06-2008, 05:24 PM
I'm not sure how accurately the movie portrays the times, or the historical figures (especially Dr. Kellogg), but The Road to Wellville (with Anthony Hopkins, Matthew Broderick and Camryn Manheim) is quite entertaining.

That was a FUNNY movie!!!

kaplods
07-06-2008, 06:07 PM
Yeah, I should really check Walmart for a DVD. My husband (surprisingly, as he's the much bigger movie buff) hasn't seen it, and I'm sure it would appeal to his weird sense of humor.

Dana Carvey as the bad-seed son, was hilarious too. OH and the scene with they guys sitting in t the sinks of water (with the electric current being passed through the water to their nether regions for some kind of "therapy"). I couldn't stop laughing (even during the "tragedy").

Timlin
07-07-2008, 01:17 PM
Well much of what's written I don't agree with but I'm not really meaning to argue the "average Irishman's" diet, lack of diet or where it came from..........I was wanting to discuss todays food issues.

I do agree that the packaged foods and fast foods are a problem today but that's choice; most people who obsess about getting enough vitamins and minerals from their food are not using those choices. We eat a very balanced diet and still take vitamins and suppliments because we are sure we are not getting the balance we need.

I think we have become a nation (or two or three) of worriers about things that really don't need us to worry over. I think we are getting enough from our regular meals to leave us not needing anything except maybe some Vit D to suppliment. I suspect most of the money we spend in this area is just not necessary but I do realize it's big business and so it's pushed at us.

Leenie
07-07-2008, 01:38 PM
I do realize it's big business and so it's pushed at us.

There you go, in a nutshell. IMHO it all boils down to the mighty buck.

.

SoulBliss
07-07-2008, 01:43 PM
Well much of what's written I don't agree with but I'm not really meaning to argue the "average Irishman's" diet, lack of diet or where it came from..........I was wanting to discuss todays food issues.
I think most people are not accustomed to such narrow yet not immediately clearly defined parameters within which it is "permissible" to discuss things in a thread. Perhaps if you were very specific from the beginning as to what you wanted to discuss and what you did not want to discuss, it would yield results more to your liking.

Personally, I discussed things *you* discussed because that made sense in the context of what the thread seemed to be about.

Timlin
07-07-2008, 01:46 PM
Sorry I was not trying to stop the discussion about Ireland and their food I was just stepping away from it myself. I have a very Irish background and many misconceptions live about the Irish and their history (because there were obviously richer and poorer groups. My family was of the poorer group so their situation was a little different.) I just went back to my original point. I don't care who else cares to discuss the history or the benefits of foods. I wasn't meaning to be rude.

yoyonomoreinvegas
07-07-2008, 02:27 PM
I agree that we have become somewhat obsessed - hey, we have an entire government agency that decides how much of each nutrient we *should* be getting!

IMHO the advent of processing bulk foods and adding preservatives, etc., along with the relative ease of aquiring it, has much more to do with our modern health and obesity issues than variety.

Even as recently as 100 or so years ago, when harvests were in and food was bountiful, they were eating portions that would be positively enormous by today's standards which made is fairly easy to get all the nutrients/calories they needed. But, the effort they needed to expend just to get that food to the table would have most "modern" folks face down in the dirt. Think of plowing a field following behind a mule 12 or 14 hours a day instead of driving to the store and strolling around behind a grocery cart (an hour at the gym just ain't quite the same). Just doing things like cooking, cleaning and laundry were physically demandng jobs - heck, what they had to use just to do the ironing would pass for free weights today :lol:.

Then there's the processing. Some of the processing our great grandparents used to preserve their food may have removed some of the nutrients but IMHO our modern methods of adding chemicals makes it harder for our bodies to process what nutrients are left.

Hey, maybe with the gas & grocery prices going through the roof (not to mention *tainted* foods from the store), we'll end up with more of us growing our own food and walking and riding bicycles everywhere and the obesity/type 2 diabetes epidemics with go away :D

Squid
07-07-2008, 02:34 PM
15 min in the sunshine is all the vitamin D we need daily. That was the recommendation of my Doctor.

Timilin, this discussion was really good. I learned more about the potato and history!

kaplods
07-07-2008, 03:09 PM
I'm not sure we have become obsessed, at least not in the way you mean.
Fads have always swept the nation, and on smaller scales in local communities as well. Spiritualism (seances, mediums, spirit photographs, "ghost hunters") was quite popular in the late 1800's and early 1900's. It lost popularity in favor of other things. After King Tut's tomb was discovered, all things "egypt" were popular.

Talk to any collectibles dealer, read books on the history of hobbies and collectibles or watch Antiques Road Show, and you will see some of the trends and "obsessions," of the past.

With modern media, trends and fads sweep the nation even more quickly, and reach more people. "The whole nation," is not obsessed with health and nutrition. While it's a large minority, the health and fitness obsessed are still in the minority. Although a small minority is shelling out the most money (which is generally true of fads, anyway - as with the most widespread trend- those following it generally are not in the majority - it just looks that way).

Most people do NOT know or care much about vitamins. In fact, most people don't even take a multivitamin regularly, and the majority of those who do leave it at that and take no other supplements (and probably couldn't even tell you why they are taking the multivitamin).

How many people are truly obsessed, it's really hard to say. It's a popular subject in hard and soft media stories, tv, newspapers, magazines... and in casual conversations, but what people are interested in and what they do are often very two different things.

A history or antiques buff cand tell you that trends and fads (including health, fitness, and food trends and fads) have ALWAYS been popular.

I think the only reason that fads and trends sweep the nation faster and to larger degrees today, is that news now travels at the speed of light. We see the news as it happens, not three weeks later. We talk to distant friends, family, and strangers immediately and in person rather than every few months (if not years or decades).

150reasons
07-20-2008, 11:23 PM
I think one of our most problematic food obsessions in this country is with flavor. I see and hear the commercials all the time, "flavor filled" "new improved flavor," "now with even more flavor" I mean for heaven's sake, do Doritos really need any more flavor?:dizzy: That's a large bulk of our food additives, flavor enhancers. MSG anyone?

kaplods
07-20-2008, 11:55 PM
I think if one trend has gotten out of hand, it is for "more," not only more flavor, but just more in general. Bigger and more is almost always seen as better. Portion sizes have gotten insane, because in the fight for our spending dollar, many restaurants and food product manufacturers have attempted to stand out from the competition by offering "more" for your purchase price. Well of course their competitors reciprocate and we have an all-out one-upmanship that continues with no end in sight.

Even fruits have been bred to be bigger and sweeter. So how do we reverse the trend. That's difficult, because people like the idea of getting "more" for their money, whatever that "more" is. And manufacturers/producers/growers aren't likely to cut prices to entice you to buy smaller or "lesser" products, because the profit margin between a smaller or lesser product is often marginal. For example in a restaurant, the food is often the cheapest part of the overhead. It pays for restauranteurs to give crazy large portions, because customers feel they have gotten a "better" value.

The only real solution is becoming a better educated consumer, who has taught themselves what they are looking for and how they are going to go about getting it. Unfortunately, because of the ubiquitous availability of poor quality food, it can become a choice between obsessions. One has to be obsessed, to a degree, in researching what kind of food is in your food.

snapless
07-21-2008, 12:44 AM
Maybe one of us should open a restaurant that doesn't offer 'more' for your purchase price, but instead offers lower priced healthy meals that are properly proportionate?

Crazy idea, huh? :p

They actually go over quite well here in Japan. Even McDonald's here offers more healthy varieties instead of massive sizes. Want a shrimp burger? How about a thinly shredded lettuce/cabbage salad with chunks of grilled chicken breast and fresh tomato lightly drizzled with a peanut oil dressing? You order a medium coke, you GET a medium coke (8 or 10 oz. cup I believe). Or my preference, a cup of unsweetened hot green tea.

NOTE: I am not suggesting eating any of these on induction (although I've had the salad since beginning OWL), I'm just comparing them to the lardburger made with trans fats and processed chicken nuggets cooked in sat. fat loaded oils served in the US. :(

JulieJ08
07-21-2008, 01:02 AM
They actually go over quite well here in Japan. Even McDonald's here offers more healthy varieties instead of massive sizes. Want a shrimp burger? How about a thinly shredded lettuce/cabbage salad with chunks of grilled chicken breast and fresh tomato lightly drizzled with a peanut oil dressing? You order a medium coke, you GET a medium coke (8 or 10 oz. cup I believe). Or my preference, a cup of unsweetened hot green tea.

How interesting!

kaplods
07-21-2008, 01:20 AM
There's a thai restaurant in town, that hubby and I love. My favorite reason for going there is that there are so many diet-friendly, even low-carb alternatives are on the menu. And then in a conversation with the owners, the wife (and only cook for the restaurant) told me that she would modify any of the dishes if I wanted, such as substituting bean sprouts for noodles.

They also keep their prices QUITE low. Now, not everything on the menu is low calorie, so I have to use good judgement, but it's wonderful to have choices.

snapless
07-21-2008, 01:58 AM
There's a thai restaurant in town, that hubby and I love. My favorite reason for going there is that there are so many diet-friendly, even low-carb alternatives are on the menu. And then in a conversation with the owners, the wife (and only cook for the restaurant) told me that she would modify any of the dishes if I wanted, such as substituting bean sprouts for noodles.

They also keep their prices QUITE low. Now, not everything on the menu is low calorie, so I have to use good judgement, but it's wonderful to have choices.

There are so many restaurants like that here in northern (rural) Japan, healthy ingredients, lower prices and willing to swap out if I need it (like bean sprouts for noodles). The McDonald's is off base which is why it has a higher standard.

It's the on-base restaurants that are the problem. Popeye's, Burger King, Subway, Taco Bell, Charley's Subs, Pizza Hut, as well as the 'local' on base ones like the enlisted club, Magnum's (steak), Los Guerreros (mexican...if you can call it that lol), Mokuteki (cafe) and any others I might have missed. When going to ANY of those places I have to be very careful of ingredients and portion sizes. There are only a few things I'll eat from each one.

For instance, if my husband is eating Taco Bell I'll have a chicken taco salad sans salsa (sugar), shell (white flour) and beans...basically meat and lettuce with a little shredded cheese, bite of tomato and a dab of sour cream.

Or if he's eating Subway I'll have a salad (lettuce, cucumber, meat, cheese and black olives) with ranch dressing.

I try to avoid those places anyway. I'd rather eat fresh at home. But the Japanese restaurants are a joy. One of the things I'm going to miss when I go back to the US. :(

j45rpm
07-21-2008, 02:15 AM
One of my favorite local restaurants is sadly not lower priced, but does give healthy meals that are properly proportionate and has nutritional information! http://www.rockcreekrestaurant.com/index2.html If there was a restaurant like this but with cheaper, perhaps a little less upscale (to account for the cheaper prices!), I'd eat there all the time instead of the rare treat I allow myself.

Maybe one of us should open a restaurant that doesn't offer 'more' for your purchase price, but instead offers lower priced healthy meals that are properly proportionate?

Crazy idea, huh? :p

They actually go over quite well here in Japan. Even McDonald's here offers more healthy varieties instead of massive sizes. Want a shrimp burger? How about a thinly shredded lettuce/cabbage salad with chunks of grilled chicken breast and fresh tomato lightly drizzled with a peanut oil dressing? You order a medium coke, you GET a medium coke (8 or 10 oz. cup I believe). Or my preference, a cup of unsweetened hot green tea.

NOTE: I am not suggesting eating any of these on induction (although I've had the salad since beginning OWL), I'm just comparing them to the lardburger made with trans fats and processed chicken nuggets cooked in sat. fat loaded oils served in the US. :(

Jella
07-21-2008, 02:20 AM
Has anyone ever watched the tv series on in the uk/ireland called the diets that time forgot?http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/D/diets-that-time-forgot/ This shows the different diets used at different times in the uk, i've only seen a few eposides but it was very interesting! Some had to take cold baths because they believed then that would help them lose weight *shivers*

But the famine in Ireland happened because spuds was all the farmers could keep they farmed other crops but they were exported so things got bad and a blight hit the spuds and loads of people died.(this is was I learned in school anyways) As a result we have a lot of dishes we make with spuds and a lot of variety of spuds. My parents eat them every day without fail, usually with cabbage/turnip or whatever is in season. When I was young we grow most of our veggies and some apple trees oh and the best ruhbarb. I am begenning to think havin a small veg patch outside in my garden is the best idea now with the price of everything going up. Also look at cuba and what they have achieved in growing in the ruins of old buildings because they had to due to lack of imports ect.

I feel there is too much choice out there and not enough education/information for people to know what to buy, here in Ireland they now have to put a breakdown of calories and other nutrients on the front of some foods so straight away you know the daily % of each for an adult.I hope I explained that ok! Very interesting thread thou!

Timlin
07-21-2008, 09:23 AM
squid up here in the north you cannot be outside and get your Vit D.....we have to dress to warmly and the sun is too low in the sky. You really do need to take vit D if you don't drink milk........and I don't drink milk, never have. So that and Vit C are the only two suppliments my family takes.

Beyond that we eat a variety of foods and much of our veggies are served raw with dip so I trust the Lord made our bodies capable of functioning well with a good supply of fresh foods.

Timlin
07-21-2008, 09:24 AM
squid I should clearify.......that's in the winter months not during the 3 or 4 months of summer. Right now I can spend a few minutes in the sun and get my vit D just fine.