General chatter - Did you ever notice fat people in movies?




luckymommy
06-29-2008, 02:02 AM
I just saw the new movie Wanted, with the beautiful, but extremely emaciated Angelina Jolie. I was very upset because (other than hating the movie for it's stupid plot and pointless violence), it had an obese character that was very unpleasant. Now that I'm home, I'm watching Evan Almighty to find another heavy person (John Goodman's character) be the bad guy. Ok, I know it's not always the case, but it just tics me off. Thanks for listening to my vent.


mamaspank
06-29-2008, 02:21 AM
A movie I always have a hard time watching is What's Eating Gilbert Grape. It features an overweight woman who has a hard time leaving her house. I have never felt so awkward during a movie. I identified with her family; it reminded me of my own in so many ways.

I know what you are saying though. It is sad that the movie industry villianizes people who are overweight. Did you ever see Muriel's Wedding? I think how they portray Toni Collette's character is genius. She totally owns it. I also loved Circle of Friends. I hated the new Hairspray, but I love the old one with Ricki Lake. So much fun to watch.

jimaterry
06-29-2008, 05:32 AM
im american, but living in england... this isnt a movie, but on a soap here called eastenders there is an overweight woman named 'heather'... at first i was irritated because she is kinda ditzy even tho she has a big heart.. but from reading the 'spoilers', she is going to come into her own as a big girl, and have much deeper story lines ... they are working on breaking the stereotypical role for heavy people... here's hopin :)


yoyoma
06-29-2008, 05:58 AM
On a related note, opera is only entertainment venue (I can think of) where heavy performers have historically been on an equal footing with their thinner peers. But in recent years, a movement has been trying to bring opera more in line with other mainstream forms of entertainment. With that comes the preference for svelt singers.

Deborah Voigt, American super diva, was released from her contract a few years ago in her role as Ariadne at the Royal Opera House (in London) because of her weight. She underwent weight loss surgery and slimmed from a size 30 to a 14. In very recent news, she has just been rehired in the role of Ariadne.

Blurb here...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004470091_voigt11.html

And here's an interview that goes more in depth into her background and struggles...

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/stage/opera/article4231182.ece

preetyladyserenity
06-29-2008, 06:01 AM
One very insulting (for me) movie is Norbit (I saw the trailers and felt totally disgusted). I rest my case. I haven't seen the old Hairspray to know the difference but I liked the Travolta one. Though here I sat thinking "Could an overweight girl feel so confident?".

broadabroad
06-29-2008, 06:55 AM
Though here I sat thinking "Could an overweight girl feel so confident?".

Well, Nicki Bronski (iirc that's the actress's name? Although I may be misremembering) does seem pretty darned perky and confident, bless her. I was so sorry that the Writers' Strike (which I supported, mind you) meant that the Golden Globes got cancelled, because that meant she didn't get to have her fifteen minutes of gorgeous frock and peer recognition, poor kid.

Anyway, yes - it's the nature of Hollywood (and much US telly) that characters tend to be physically idealised. "Perfect hair", teeth, t*ts, arses, skin etc etc. It's a rare imperfect actor or actress that gets to play anything other than bit parts - and of course fat actors are more acceptable than fat actresses, because that's the nature of Western society and its attitude towards women. Sucks.

I'm quite fond of Jack Black, but Shallow Hal just made me wince from the trailers far too much to bother catching it. And Big Momma's House seems to depend almost entirely for its comedy on the sheer hilarity of how revolting fat women are. Yeah. Thanks for that.

Of course, John Waters gave Ricki Lake lots of great roles back in the 80s, and I'm actually perfectly fond of the musical version of Hairspray too. And we've got Dream Girls - that had a large-ish actress in one of the main roles, being utterly awesome. We tend to have actors and actresses of various shapes and sizes on UK telly (and I remember Pam Ferris piling on weight for her character in The Darling Buds of May, who was very much one of the good guys), and on TV even in the States you've had Roseanne, that fella on LOST, a couple of the characters on Popular...but, yeah, okay, positive portrayals of heftier people (and I mean, even a wee bit hefty, never mind big fat buggers like myself) are still pretty few and far between. I mean, do you remember all the kerfuffle about Renee Zellwegger putting on weight to play Bridget Jones, and all the BS about how "fat" she was? @@

To be fair, though, we could equally have this rant about US portrayals of Brits. A British accent on a bloke (whether the actor in question was a Brit or a Yank) was shorthand for 'Macchiavelian villain - probably gay' throughout most of the 80s and 90s, and is only a little less so nowadays. British women were almost invariably depicted as posh, frustrated ice-maidens just dying for a good shag from a red-blooded American man.

This is just how mainstream bums-on-seats cinema works, you know? Stereotypes abound, and the women have to be shaggable.

But in recent years, a movement has been trying to bring opera more in line with other mainstream forms of entertainment. With that comes the preference for svelt singers.

Oh dear. I confess, I do find it HORRIBLY distracting when the singer doesn't look the part - I mean, I'm more of a theatre-goer than an opera-goer, and so when I do go to opera I'm generally engaging more with the narrative than with the music (because it's not my area of expertise, and beyond thinking 'Oooh, that's a good one! Ack! Need hanky!' I really can't make any sensible comments). And this means that if the character is supposed to be a gorgeous young princess and she's being played by a huge woman of advancing middle years I find it TERRIBLY distracting. I would far rather pay to see the singers just stand there and sing, or to have the singers just stand there and sing while some mute dancers act it all out...but being asked to believe that this bloke in his 40s is actually the hot young apprentice or whatever...well, I find it very difficult to get engaged with the performance. It throws me right out of the whole suspension-of-disbelief thing.

I realise that's rather shallow of me, and I do feel very bad for the hefty opera singers facing employment problems.

Circebee
06-29-2008, 07:05 AM
Hey, I have been saying for years how I would love to see "Charlie's Cherubs" hit the movie screens, with three plucky, voluptuous babes solving crimes using brains, gadgets, and plenty of sass! All while turning the heads of every beautiful man they encounter. Let's throw in some kick-*** outfits, too!

Tomato
06-29-2008, 09:15 AM
Deborah Voigt, American super diva, was released from her contract a few years ago in her role as Ariadne at the Royal Opera House (in London) because of her weight. She underwent weight loss surgery and slimmed from a size 30 to a 14. In very recent news, she has just been rehired in the role of Ariadne.
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I may be in the minority, but I actually don't find it surprising or outrageous. I know opera is a bit different than for example movies, but you wouldn't cast Camryn Mannheim into a role that calls for someone with Angelina Jolie's physique, would you? My example is a bit exaggerated (sp?) but that's just to get the point across.

I have to say that I absolutely LOVED Hairspray (I didn't know there was an earlier one with R. Lake) - Nicki was absolutely fabulous in it and I so wished she would end up with some coveted award. Travolta was great as well.

NightengaleShane
06-29-2008, 09:52 AM
I have a huge bone to pick with Hollywood, but it isn't just about their portrayal of fat people. Yes, they often rely on obesity to be a source of humorous entertainment (which is really silly; how funny can someone's weight truly be?! Weight-related comedy stops being funny after the first few minutes for me), but they also promote completely unhealthy beauty ideals throughout society; women of a HEALTHY weight rarely get cast for leading roles, too... and the ones who DO get cast usually end up playing the tag along or frumpy friend.

Most Hollywood actresses are considered underweight by the BMI chart and are not an accurate portrayal of the real American woman. I have always said I wish the women of Hollywood (since they, like, totally all communicate with each other) would get together and start a rebellion against the media and actually begin embracing a more *healthy* body image.

But... back to fat people in movies... Hairspray and DreamGirls are the only movies I can name off the top of my head who actually have confident overweight characters portrayed in a sassy, flattering manner. Well... those movies and a whole bunch of Mo'Nique ones (Hair Show, Phat Girls, anything where Mo'Nique is the lead character usually has her playing a confident woman who people find sexy instead of repulsive).

TwynnB
06-29-2008, 10:16 AM
Related but not....

What annoys me as well.....the double standard. That 95%+ of women roles are thin, pretty women. Or, even if they're not attractive, they're still thin. BUT, men...there are many leading male roles (John Goodman, the guy with the Bronx role, etc.) that are overweight. Typical: overweight husband with thin wife. "roseanne" (UGH) was against the norm.

I do think back to 15 years ago in college. I was afraid to get by body fat % done, I thought I was fat. I was 124 at 5'4", and very fit. Looking back, I'm sure I was 20% or so. But I thought I was fat. Because of standards of beauty. That you had to be stick thin, not a bit of saddlebags, and tall too...to be considered beautiful.

At 37 and after 2 kids (via csection much less), I'm trying to shake that engrained idea.

Great, hollywood...thanks.

vixjean
06-29-2008, 10:45 AM
I did a lot of feminism study in college and watched some excellent films on women and weight, and women being portrayed in the media. Yes, no names, but many of the women are UNDERWEIGHT, and it's scarey - and it's sad. I am not going to sit here and lie, I DO think that's how I AM supposed to look. That's because they take the models and actresses who are underweight, about 10% of the ACTUAL population here in the states, and make them look like they are 99% because they get so much attention. I am all for different body types and shapes, but seriously, if they are only 10% of the population - then they should only get 10% of the roles. But as women, we know it never works out like that - doesn't mean it shouldn't.

LisaMarie71
06-29-2008, 11:14 AM
What truly annoys me is the fact that even when you do have a positive character with a little meat on her bones, that's the whole point of her character. They can't treat the character as just "normal" if she's over a size 2 -- that has to be the whole plotline. It's often the same with interracial relationships (although that's getting better), homosexual relationships, and older woman/younger man relationships. If those things exist in a plot, they're the whole point to the movie, instead of just being a normal development. On the other hand, you have 60 year old men dating 20 or 30 year old women in movies and it's supposed to look "normal" to us. Imagine seeing Bea Arthur dating Jake Gyllenhaal in a movie, with no explanation. Or Jane Fonda as an action heroine, like Harrison Ford and Sylvester Stallone.

Sorry, I got a little off topic...

fiberlover
06-29-2008, 11:20 AM
I wish that when there is an overweight person in the movie, that it would be like they were any normal person, and there would be no need to comment on the weight.

Just like if the person was blonde, brunette, short, whatever. To just have an overweight person just be another character without the weight having any bearing upon the story. You know, kind of like real life??

SoulBliss
06-29-2008, 11:20 AM
On the other hand, you have 60 year old men dating 20 or 30 year old women in movies and it's supposed to look "normal" to us. Imagine seeing Bea Arthur dating Jake Gyllenhaal in a movie, with no explanation. Or Jane Fonda as an action heroine, like Harrison Ford and Sylvester Stallone.
:lol: YES, YES, YES! And yes to the rest you said about anything that makes a character an "outlier" being ALL THERE IS TO THE CHARACTER in the media!

luckymommy
06-29-2008, 11:34 AM
Thanks for all these great responses. Unfortunately, money talks in Hollywood and most people want to see skinny mini's on the screen. The thing that got to me so much about the character I mentioned in Wanted, was how much they focused on her eating habits. They would show her eating a donut in slow-motion and made it look so horrible (even though plenty of skinny people enjoy donuts) and how the movie's heroin (who is more like a motivation for another Columbine-style killing) says he feels sorry for her and that comment seems to be more focused or as much focused on her appearance as her personality. Meanwhile, as I mentioned, Angelina Jolie is looking so skinny that I just don't get it! I think most men would prefer her to be at least 15 lbs. heavier, so why is she so thin? Also, I was shocked that she would make a movie that was so violent without at least some good message...given that she is such an ambassador of good will. Anyway, sorry to rant all over again, but I'm glad I'm in good company on this forum! :)

SoulBliss
06-29-2008, 11:45 AM
Meanwhile, as I mentioned, Angelina Jolie is looking so skinny that I just don't get it! I think most men would prefer her to be at least 15 lbs. heavier, so why is she so thin?

Well, I think she looks better at a bigger size than she has been, but wanted to suggest that that line of thinking is just as discriminatory as the opposite...Why should she aspire to be what "most men would prefer"?

piperboo
06-29-2008, 12:07 PM
I was watching Hairspray with my 6 year old stepdaughter. She always decides she is going to "be someone" in the movie, so of course she picks the blond cute girl. As the movie went on, the girl got meaner and her view changed to see that the heavier girl was the one that she wanted to be. It was a good lesson to teach that not always does the skinniest girl gets the gorgeous man and that just because you don't fit the "norm" doesn't mean you can't excel at anything you try to do.

The movie I HATED was Shallow Hal. It just made me so mad that everything the "fat" girl sat on broke or every second she was shoving food or even at one point, a whole cake in her mouth. I mean get real.

knitsforfive
06-29-2008, 12:31 PM
I wish that when there is an overweight person in the movie, that it would be like they were any normal person, and there would be no need to comment on the weight.

Just like if the person was blonde, brunette, short, whatever. To just have an overweight person just be another character without the weight having any bearing upon the story. You know, kind of like real life??

This is one of the reasons I loved Gilmore Girls. I also really liked (don't laugh) Veronica's Closet -- years ago. In both, there was never any mention of the weight of the larger characters, nor were they the bad, crazy ones, etc. In fact, in Gilmore Girls, the woman who was originally cast to play Sookie was a thin person -- so it wasn't even a part of the plot.

While I enjoyed the Travolta Hairspray, I had a huge beef with a man in a fat suit playing the mother, which took a great role away from an older, heavy woman. I could totally see someone like Kathy Najimy in that role. Why give it to a man???

ANOther
06-29-2008, 01:20 PM
While I enjoyed the Travolta Hairspray, I had a huge beef with a man in a fat suit playing the mother, which took a great role away from an older, heavy woman. I could totally see someone like Kathy Najimy in that role. Why give it to a man???

Others too have noted that it isn't strictly speaking a drag-queen role, but I think they're just following that when John Waters made the original film he cast Divine, and when it was on Broadway Harvey Fierstein played the part

Glory87
06-29-2008, 01:30 PM
While I enjoyed the Travolta Hairspray, I had a huge beef with a man in a fat suit playing the mother, which took a great role away from an older, heavy woman. I could totally see someone like Kathy Najimy in that role. Why give it to a man???

Because the original movie had a drag queen in that role? I thought it was an homage to Jon Waters and Divine.

KLK
06-29-2008, 01:48 PM
Uh... Shallow Hal...

Spoz
06-29-2008, 02:03 PM
All I have to say is Rose O Donald. :)

SoulBliss
06-29-2008, 02:16 PM
All I have to say is Rose O Donald. :)

Why don't you tell us what you *really* think? ;) That could mean so many things.

JulieJ08
06-29-2008, 02:27 PM
Hey, I have been saying for years how I would love to see "Charlie's Cherubs" hit the movie screens, with three plucky, voluptuous babes solving crimes using brains, gadgets, and plenty of sass! All while turning the heads of every beautiful man they encounter. Let's throw in some kick-*** outfits, too!

Now that *would* be kick-a**

KLK
06-29-2008, 03:40 PM
This thread makes me think about to circa 1998 when Titanic was in the movies. I personally believe that Kate Winslet is not only one of the most talented actresses around today, but that she is also one of the most beautiful, but I remember A LOT of people complaining that the heroine of the film was "too fat."

I would *KILL* to look like Kate Winslet -- imo, she is SO much more beautiful than any emaciated underweight Hollywood idiot!

techwife
06-29-2008, 04:29 PM
You know, I thought Renee Zellwegger was absolutely beautiful in Bridget Jones Diary (I didn't actually see the movie, but was trailers) and looks so unhealthy now.

Norbit was just gross. Rasputia (sp) was actually played by Eddie Murphy and was the epitome of evil fat woman and, of course, the good girl the Norbit ends up with is cute and skinny. TOTALLY what you guys are talking about (although there is a totally hysterical scene involving the water slide, if you're willing to put aside the stereotype :lol3: ).

I just finished watching Ever After (for the billionth time) and the chubby sister actually has a herione-ish part whereas the skinny sister is the antagonist for a change. I just love that movie....although its so sickeningly sweet, I feel like eating dill pickles after to balance out.

KLK
06-29-2008, 04:34 PM
Yes, and Drew Barrymore is also not an underweight Hollywood twit


I just finished watching Ever After (for the billionth time) and the chubby sister actually has a herione-ish part whereas the skinny sister is the antagonist for a change. I just love that movie....although its so sickeningly sweet, I feel like eating dill pickles after to balance out.

aphil
06-29-2008, 08:04 PM
Ever After is one of my favorites...and the heavier stepsister ended up being in a lot of films/shows as well-including Detroit Rock City, and Two and a Half Men. :)

Kate Winslet was also very beautiful in Titanic...from what I remember, she was around a size 8 when it was filmed. I *believe* she is a bit thinner now, but she was more womanly and curvy in Titanic.

techwife
06-29-2008, 09:06 PM
Ever After is one of my favorites...and the heavier stepsister ended up being in a lot of films/shows as well-including Detroit Rock City, and Two and a Half Men. :)




THAT'S where I've seen her again. I knew she looked familiar elsewhere...

Operator265
06-29-2008, 10:11 PM
The double standard of Men/Women is what gets me. Then it bleeds into real life. I asked why I was always on truck and rarely got to work as fuel attendant, even though I have 2 years experience as a fuel/lube tech before I started working for this co. I was told that it is alot of physical work and they wouldn't want me to hurt myself. Afterall, and I quote, "You have to admit that you are out of shape." Well, that is b/c you Aholes won't let me off my truck to do anything else. Sitting on your butt for 12 hrs. just doesn't require alot of excersion. When I started with this co. I was 180 and pretty strong. Since then I went to 220 and the folks I used to work with would die of shock if they saw me.

Not angry enough about that comment, I pulled into have my truck fueled 2 days later and out walks a man about 2 inches taller than me and atleast 100 lbs. heavier. Where as I look overweight, this man is FAT!!! OMG!!!! Oh, but I guess we don't have to worry about HIM injuring himself. Give me a break.

vixjean
06-29-2008, 11:30 PM
What truly annoys me is the fact that even when you do have a positive character with a little meat on her bones, that's the whole point of her character. They can't treat the character as just "normal" if she's over a size 2 -- that has to be the whole plotline.

Very true, good point, and well said.

Sassy_Chick
06-30-2008, 01:44 AM
What annoys me is like someone else stated the double standard where its okay for men to be heavy but not for women.

Such as in tv shows or movies where there is a big man who gets this really really thin and attractive woman but nowhere do you see the opposite.

Doesn't get it for me.

aphil
06-30-2008, 08:15 AM
What annoys me is like someone else stated the double standard where its okay for men to be heavy but not for women.

Such as in tv shows or movies where there is a big man who gets this really really thin and attractive woman but nowhere do you see the opposite.

Doesn't get it for me.


Actually, the soap opera Guiding Light has had a storyline for the past few months, where a heavier actress (not a size 8...more like an 18) ended up getting the guy. :)

They are also doing a storyline about her getting the lap band done, and losing weight. FYI-the soap opera writers did NOT force this on her, nor did they ask her to lose weight. She decided to get the lap band done in REAL life, so they added it to the plot line, to explain her expected weight loss over the next year or so.

She has also said that she will never be Hollywood thin, and that is okay. She just wants to be healthier and a few sizes smaller.

GL also has a few other actresses who are not stick thin (Olivia, Reva, etc. if you watch the show) and while they are not plus sized, they are also not sizes 0 or 2 (I would guess more in the 8-14 range) and their love lives on there are still pretty active. ;)

There indeed ARE some shows/movies out there who are trying to portray more "real" women...we just have to give them the chance. :)

ImpalaHoarder
06-30-2008, 09:17 AM
If television is in any way descriptive, I'd say people in general have no sympathy at all for overweight people. I watch a lot of medical type shows, and every time they have a fat patient I watch to see if they are going to either not mention the issue or make a positive statement, but they never do. Even in sympathetic storylines it always seems to be one of two stories.

1. Doctors are harassing the patient to lose weight and the patient is unwilling to lose weight because "it's too hard". While it is presented as a genuine health problem that some people are frightened about dealing with, I have also never seen weight gain be described with the same sympathy as drug addiction, and furthermore I have never seen a storyline where a weight problem was presented as a heroic struggle, as so many other health problems are. Weight gain is not the only medical problem which is usually caused by personal choice. Just for another example, so, quite frequently, is AIDS, but AIDS patients are not nearly so poorly portrayed, at least in the United States. It's an example of how obesity could be more sensitively dealt with on television.

2. The doctors harass the patient to lose weight, the patient claims he has already tried, the doctors refuse to believe him, and it turns out he has a different health problem so actually the doctors should be ashamed of themselves, but the health problem is fixed and the person is transformed into a thin, beautiful version of himself and it's a lesson in being less biased. While House in a storyline about an obese girl did cover a certain amount of the emotional strain put on her by her classmates, causing her to possibly attempt suicide, I find the fact that the show felt compelled to have the girl end up thin and pretty by the end telling. What about the actress who played the first girl? What should the audience think about her? The vast majority of fat people do not have problems like that. I guess people who can drop a hundred pounds in six months when their problem is fixed are free from prejudice now!

Never do they cover the issue of people who, in fact, are just naturally heavier. I honestly think that this hostile view of obese people causes a lot of obesity in this subset of people. When I was younger I was barely overweight and quite in shape, but the constant tormenting by my peers and even doctors and parents just made me give up, see myself as hopelessly fat and decide to eat whatever I wanted and never exercise, because apparently it made no difference in how people saw me.

I did like the portrayal of the one fat woman in the dancing scene in the movie Get Smart. Some situational humor was derived from her size, but there was situational humor derived from EVERYTHING in that movie, and overall she was quite a strong character. She'd just lost a hundred pounds, a fact the protagonist sympathized with despite her current weight, and danced pretty darned competently, using her weight as an extra "wow" factor, as a "screw you" to the skinny rich girls who had laughed at her. This was a fantastic scene, but unfortunately, scenes of this sort still seem to be unfortunately rare in movies and TV.

francis84
06-30-2008, 10:58 AM
I saw 3 fat people in the movie, THE REPLACEMENT (starring Keanu Reeves)

NightengaleShane
06-30-2008, 11:31 AM
Oh man, I have to second the notion that medical shows always make overweight people seem like they are posing a gigantic risk to their health. While saying that, I clearly recall an episode of House where there was a morbidly obese 9 year old girl who had a heart attack. Dr. Chase kept making remarks that she must be lazy and that her weight was entirely her fault. The other doctors were not entirely sure if her habits were truly to blame or if it was a mysterious illness. Of course, she ended up having Cushings Syndrome and lost a monumental amount of weight. Dr. Chase then told her she looked gorgeous, but since his character is somewhat of an arrogant butthead (in my opinion), he didn't feel stupid or apologize for thinking her obesity was to blame for her heart attack. Bittersweet, huh?

NightengaleShane
06-30-2008, 11:44 AM
As for people who are naturally heavier... our society acts like it doesn't believe it's possible for them to exist, even though it's printed in middle school science books that there are three different body types. :mad:

I hate how our society ridicules fat people, considering the AVERAGE PERSON IS OVERWEIGHT! Why the h-e-double-toothpicks are we, as a population, laughing at the misfortunes of those who are JUST LIKE US? It greatly irked me when people said Kate Winslet was too fat to be the heroine in Titanic. It bothered me when Lindsay Lohan went from a healthy looking teenage girl to a skinny blonde :censored: :censored: It broke my heart when all these people were saying Jordin Sparks was too fat to be the American Idol. And it downright p*ssed me off when people were calling Pink chunky... that lady has great abs... how the heck can you have great abs and be CHUNKY?

*Steps off the soapbox because I feel my blood pressure rising just talking about this* Grrrrr!!

Sassy_Chick
06-30-2008, 11:50 PM
I just wanna know who decided that the "Skin and Bones" look was "Sexy"???

Jonsgurl0531
07-01-2008, 12:20 AM
Yah really .. the majority of the actresses in Holywood have the body of a 10 year old BOY...
I loved Renee in Bridget Jones... and in actuality she was meant to be heavier like in the books... I think around 150 or 160 ish... been forever since I read the books.. not the 130 pounds she was in the movie..
I really get irratated when they call these beautiful healthy WOMEN Fat.. I was appalled when I heard they said Liv Tyler was fat in LOTR.... and Kate Winslet was Beautiful in titianic..hollywood woman should be ENVIOUS of her body..

I also hate that when they portray women in movies that were supposed to take place hundreds of years ago.. and the women are emaciated...when in fact they were supposed to be quite curvy. Hollywood likes to have the clothing accurate.. just not the bodies in them.

Hollywood really needs a reality check.. Women are supposed to have CURVES and BOOBS.. I mean if every thin actress ( Kiera Knightly.. Nicole Kidman) gained 20 pounds.. They would look a whole lot better

Dont get me started when they were calling Tyra Banks fat.. because she wasnt an emaciated model anymore.. Please she looks great no matter what.

NrsgStudent
07-01-2008, 02:53 AM
I just wanna know who decided that the "Skin and Bones" look was "Sexy"???

Hmmm... Probably the same people who think ginormous boobies look great on said "skin and bones." Then decided we need perfectly straight, blindingly white teeth. And blue eyes. And blonde hair. I still want to be four inches taller with blonde hair and blue eyes. None of that will ever happen, though I do have this one pair of boots....:o
Maybe we idealize it because it's not natural?
On another note, being overweight is so stigmatized, I know one person who needs to lose almost 500 pounds to be in a "healthy range," but he refuses to go to a doctor because the first thing that doctor's going to tell him is to lose weight. He nearly lost his leg to an infection last year and wound up in the hospital. Guess what they asked him? "Why the :devil: did you wait so long to get this looked at???"

:soap: Warning: This is one subject/issue/catastrophe I'm passionate about, it's one of few things that makes me cry thinking about it, reading about it, or researching it, and I am compelled to comment. Someone compared obesity earlier to a disease that was so stigmatized, it took three years before the medical community really paid attention, and yes, Reagan ignored it, denied funding for research, etc while people died. Hemophiliacs, children, and the elderly were hit hard in the US early on through the national blood supply while the medical community focused on "typical" cases, and we all know what's going on now in the rest of the world. To actually come across "the other F-word" in a medical journal, a note from the editor of said journal that "now we have a reason to hate :censored:," that these people were "getting what they deserve," that it is "divine justice," is just sickening. It's sad to realize that people still think it's being passed along by "personal choices." Injection drug use is an addiction. Our society is oversexed but government refuses to teach safe sex practices, or allow certain condom advertisements, claiming that abstinance is the only solution. How confusing is that for a 16 year-old with raging hormones? Everyone on tv is doing it, so it must be normal. Even the Vatican finally issued a new stance on condoms (it's a start). You know your country has issues when the Catholic Church takes a more liberal approach. Sorry if it seems I'm fussy about this: I am. Do we tell people with bunions it's from wearing sexy shoes? (yes) Do we tell people they have lung cancer from smoking cigarettes? (no, but we always ask if they smoked) Do we assume somone has gout from eating too much liver? Do we assume colon cancer comes from eating hot dogs and lunch meats with nitrites and nitrates, known carcinogens? (not yet!) Do we assume that everyone with skin cancer laid out in the sun with iodine and baby oil and never wore sunscreen, that they made that particular personal choice? I take issue with the widely-held opinion that people have HIV because of a choice they made. No one chooses to get a bad batch of blood. No one in their right mind chooses to reuse needles. No one knew the virus existed until years after it started killing, no one knew how it was passed, still many people, older people, don't think they're at risk. The nearly 30 year-old belief that people brought it on themselves is nauseating, and the stigma that comes with it skill keeps people from getting tested, from using protection and from sharing their status with their partners. It is this belief that has the world over a barrel now, millions of people infected through no wrongdoing, or through ignorance enforced by their respective governments. You would be amazed at how many people over 60 are still... active, and believe that at their age don't need protection because they can't get pregnant, and they aren't at risk for consequences.
Ugh. I'm such a dork for that... but now I feel better. No offense intended to anyone, I'm just a nerd who has issues and likes to talk.

One last thing: Why are celebrities only interested in an issue if it affects them or someone they are close to directly? People would be very disturbed if I shared a thought I have about all these actresses in their 40s having their first child.

NrsgStudent
07-01-2008, 03:04 AM
Umm... back on topic, I saw an episode of Mystery Diagnosis where the girl had been told all her life she was just lazy and needed to lose weight, diet, and exercise. Turns out she had pulmonary hypertension and all that exercise just made it worse and could have killed her.
I liked Shallow Hal. Too bad Gwenyth Paltrow was just so darned skinny. She said in an interview once that when she was in the fat suit no one recognized her and everyone ignored her, acted like she didn't exist. The movie is more a reflection on our society's backwards expectations: doesn't matter if you're a complete bit.., if you're thin and pretty, the boys will like you. If you're the sweetest person in the world, if you're a little heavy or not "perfect" in some way, the boys will like you when they've been brainwashed? Of course, Jack Black and that guy who played George in Seinfield aren't the finest male specimens available, so that kind of exaggerated the double standard, doncha think?

preetyladyserenity
07-01-2008, 06:32 AM
I know this is something that is probably mention a million times but it is a fact that Marilyn Monroe would never had a chance in today's Hollywood with her weight. They would probably tell her to come back once she lost weight but I always found her body so good.

jellydisney
07-01-2008, 07:19 AM
Did it bother anyone else in the Devil Wears Prada that Anne Hathaway was referred to as the fat girl at a size 6, and by the end of the movie triumphantly becomes a size 4? There's something so sick and wrong with that. Maybe they were trying to do it tongue in cheek as a jab at the fashion industry, but they didn't quite pull it off..... Really irritated me.

aphil
07-01-2008, 10:01 AM
Well, and this sounds horrible, but as long as WE as a society, are buying Cosmopolitan/Vogue/Vanity Fair type magazines...and as long as we are all flocking to the theatre to SEE these skinny actresses, and as long as we are still buying the clothing from the designers who USE 98 pound models...then things are not going to change.

If Hollywood's formula (selling perfection) is selling and they are making money...then why should they change it?

Things are only going to change, if everyone takes a stand. Quit subscribing or buying the magazines that don't promote attainable beauty-and send them an email and tell them why...

Instead, support companies who are promoting real beauty-Dove, for instance. Fitness, Shape, and Weight Watchers magazines feature women of different sizes and shapes inside. Even Slim-Fast and Jenny Craig's recent campaigns have stopped focusing on skinny, and have started focusing on phrases such as "healthy", "the right size for YOU", etc.

As long as people are buying "Star" or "Enquirer" at the checkout counter, with the big story about Tyra/Kirstie/whoever getting fat...then the magazines are going to keep doing stories on it.

Stop buying the things that promote unattainable beauty, and contact them and let them know why.

LisaMarie71
07-01-2008, 10:53 AM
People would be very disturbed if I shared a thought I have about all these actresses in their 40s having their first child.

Not to get off topic, but please be careful about judging people who have their children at an older age. I'm about to have my first child at 36, but it's not my choice that I waited this long. I simply wasn't able to conceive before now. This could be the case for anyone who conceives at a later age, so I try not to judge their choices. I'm also healthier now than I ever was in my twenties (not to mention far more mature), so this is a better time for me to be a mom anyway. Also, I may even have another when I'm about 39 or 40, so I hope people won't judge me for it then either. Considering all the crappy younger moms I see in my work (the moms of my high school students), I don't feel so bad about waiting until I was more mature.

(Sorry -- this is kind of a touchy subject for me, I guess... )

JulieJ08
07-01-2008, 12:32 PM
One last thing: Why are celebrities only interested in an issue if it affects them or someone they are close to directly?

Because there are hundreds or thousands of important issues out there? I think it's perfectly appropriate that whatever time and money you have to spend on issues, you do it on ones you can personally relate to.

grneyedmustang
07-01-2008, 01:43 PM
brainwashed? Of course, Jack Black and that guy who played George in Seinfield aren't the finest male specimens available, so that kind of exaggerated the double standard, doncha think?

And they're not the thinnest guys in the world either...which is just IRONIC...

Glory87
07-01-2008, 03:17 PM
One last thing: Why are celebrities only interested in an issue if it affects them or someone they are close to directly? People would be very disturbed if I shared a thought I have about all these actresses in their 40s having their first child.

Please, let's hear it. I will be 39 next month and am thinking about having a baby.

Apple Cheeks
07-01-2008, 04:48 PM
Ditto.

I'm in my late thirties and don't have any children yet for various reasons, but I haven't ruled it out either. I would still like to be a mommy one day.

Yes, there are more risks are we get older, but other than that what is the concern? :?:

KLK
07-01-2008, 05:04 PM
I tend to think, though, that in reality men *DO* look at heavy/less than perfect/not-rail-thin women. The TV/movies/pop culture, etc. tells them that they SHOULDN'T be interested in "imperfect" women but in reality they are.

The message is, imo:

For women: If you're fat/overweight/in any way "imperfect" you are garbage and deserve to be treated as such.

For men: No woman who is fat/overweight/in any way imperfect should be of interest to you.

But I think real people, men and women, rebel against these messages (thank God or we'd all be manless lol).

I also think this is somewhat cultural -- men from certain cultures don't just like heavier women, but they often *prefer* women with curves/padding.

I also think that the fact that the "perfect" woman is tall, skinny and, usually, blonde & blue-eyed is more than a little racist too... it kind of by default bars any woman with any kind of dark complexion from "perfection." (of course, Hollywood makes room for Angelina Jolie types, but they're *exotic* and still the perfect girl is blonde....)

Umm... back on topic, I saw an episode of Mystery Diagnosis where the girl had been told all her life she was just lazy and needed to lose weight, diet, and exercise. Turns out she had pulmonary hypertension and all that exercise just made it worse and could have killed her.
I liked Shallow Hal. Too bad Gwenyth Paltrow was just so darned skinny. She said in an interview once that when she was in the fat suit no one recognized her and everyone ignored her, acted like she didn't exist. The movie is more a reflection on our society's backwards expectations: doesn't matter if you're a complete bit.., if you're thin and pretty, the boys will like you. If you're the sweetest person in the world, if you're a little heavy or not "perfect" in some way, the boys will like you when they've been brainwashed? Of course, Jack Black and that guy who played George in Seinfield aren't the finest male specimens available, so that kind of exaggerated the double standard, doncha think?

Operator265
07-01-2008, 10:53 PM
I saw a investigative report one time in which they took a couple of "Beautiful" women and put them in Fat Suits then had them go around town. These girls were crying! about how badly they were being treated. When they were perfect and pretty guys would fall over each other trying to be of help to them with anything, but when they were "fat" people sneered and made fun of them and OMG ignoredthem. I myself felt this change slowly come on as I gained weight. I descibed in an earlier post the way I've been treated on my job. But, I've also noticed that in public I don't receive the same treatment as I did when I was "built like a brick house".

I worked in a Strip Club for awhile. I was a waitress and bartender, BTW, just for clarification. You want to know why many men go there? They really do want to see CURVES and BOOBS. Hollywood doesn't provide it and the real women around them cover it up for fear of being considered "Fat".

Here, Here Aphil!!!:hat: I can't stand the Enquirer and that sort of "yellow" journalism whether in print or on TV. It was absolutely horrifing to see Princess Di chased into a concrete pillar in a high speed chase and then for the predators to blame the people who buy those papers for making them do it.(Hookers and drug dealers often start out just as a way to "feed their families", but they go to jail for it). They went to the Ritz for some sense of security after being basically run out of Dodi's private home by the pap trying to get shots of them thru the windows. If they would not have been being hounded thru the entire vacation before that, they would not have called in a driver who had been off work in the first place. For God's sake, everyone needs a break every so often. Whenever I have seen the video of their last moments in the elevator and them leaving the hotel, what I see is a deer caught in a trap with no escape. Maybe the universe or whatever you want to call it just decided to open an escape route for her and let her leave this planet. Afterall, even the Jackie O route of a rich foreigner couldn't get her away from the bloodsucking hoarde we call the paparazzi.

Tyra Banks became my fav celeb during the "Tyra's Fat Scandal". She busted their balls for it. About the only time I've actually watched her show was the day she went on in the same swimsuit she had been photographed in and told them all that they were sending truly sick messages to the young girls out there and that they could all "Kiss My Fat A$$".

NrsgStudent
07-01-2008, 11:28 PM
Please, let's hear it. I will be 39 next month and am thinking about having a baby.

No one ever mentions the risks with these celebrities. These are women who have abused their bodies to fit into the roles available (in size 0 or 2 pants) most of their lives, and many are underweight when they concieve. I don't believe they are all getting pregnant naturally and being honest about it, and certainly don't wish any ill to the children, and hope they are all healthy. However, I do wonder what would happen if a high-profile celebrity were to have a child with a problem. Jenny MacCarthy has a child with autism, and is fighting for autistic children everywhere.
I'm excited for all the women out there who are starting their families when they are more established in life, and really prepared for it. I won't be ready for children until I'm in my thirties, and am worried about it, for the risks to the child, and the possibility of not being around to see grandchildren.
Sorry if I offended anyone, LisaMarie71, Glory 87, or Apple Cheeks. We all have our "touchy subjects," and it wasn't my intention to judge anyone, maybe I'm just worried because there is a good chance that may be me someday, having a first child a little later in life. And it kinda scares the crap out of me.
Best wishes to you all! I'll try not to post stupid things at 2am any more.

Apple Cheeks
07-02-2008, 03:12 AM
I wasn't offended.

I was just curious what the concern was, and I think you stated your case regarding celebrities well. :)

I always thought I would be married with at least 2 children by now, but life clearly had other plans for me. I never wanted to be a mommy so late in life, and at this point I'm not sure if I ever will be one at all. :(

But, I keep thinking it may still happen one day.....:^:

aphil
07-02-2008, 07:36 AM
No one ever mentions the risks with these celebrities. These are women who have abused their bodies to fit into the roles available (in size 0 or 2 pants) most of their lives, and many are underweight when they concieve. I don't believe they are all getting pregnant naturally and being honest about it, and certainly don't wish any ill to the children, and hope they are all healthy. However, I do wonder what would happen if a high-profile celebrity were to have a child with a problem. Jenny MacCarthy has a child with autism, and is fighting for autistic children everywhere.
I'm excited for all the women out there who are starting their families when they are more established in life, and really prepared for it. I won't be ready for children until I'm in my thirties, and am worried about it, for the risks to the child, and the possibility of not being around to see grandchildren.
Sorry if I offended anyone, LisaMarie71, Glory 87, or Apple Cheeks. We all have our "touchy subjects," and it wasn't my intention to judge anyone, maybe I'm just worried because there is a good chance that may be me someday, having a first child a little later in life. And it kinda scares the crap out of me.
Best wishes to you all! I'll try not to post stupid things at 2am any more.

I also have wondered if many of these celebrities were not getting help in conception, especially since so many of the 35+ celebrity women are having babies, and there seems to be little, if any, things like Downs Syndrome, or other things that are high risk with older mothers. I often wonder if these women are not going to fertility specialists, and getting their eggs checked, etc. before conception.

My MIL's sister waited to have a child until she was around 40, and her first and only child has Downs Syndrome, and it was due to her late maternal age. I am not sure exactly what the risk is, but I do know that it raises at age 35...and then even more after 40.

I have often thought that the reason so many celebs wait, is because they want to stay thin/perfect for as long as possible for their careers. They don't want to get fat, or get stretch marks, etc. at 24 years old, you know?

That has always been my thoughts about some of the celebs...