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makelovenotwarcraft
06-28-2008, 04:56 PM
Ok this is a very random topic and i don't know why i am posting it here but being a very sheltered person i don't have many places to go in need of advice.

Yesterday i found out that my other half had been looking at porn on the internet and by the looks of what i found, quite a bit of it too.
Now he knows how i feel about porn and that i hate it and i have always asked him not to look as it makes me feel really bad, as personally i do not understand why looking at people on the internet is any differant to say jacking of to a random guy/ girl in the street just because they are pictures dose not make them any less real.
Not only this but makes me wonder well is he not happy with me ? would he be with her if he could ? and reminds me of how ugly i think i am.
Now im sure i would feel slightly differant if he had been straight forward with me but he wasn't he did it in secret and i ended up finding it on his computer. Which i then confronted him with, he said he was sorry but this has happened before and i am starting to think maybe it is just something he cant give up ...or maybe i just need to understand people need to have porn.

Anyway my question is due to my age i have a large lack of knowledge when it comes to this and i am curious as to how others feel about the subject and also how i should now handle the situation.


Naytally
06-28-2008, 05:15 PM
Porn, in my opinion, is a way for people to have fantasies and not do anything about them.

My fiance learned all he knows about sex from porn. Positions, techniques... He watched it to become a better lover (and oh my... *grin*).

Depending on the type of porn, he may have just been indulging in fantasies via video that he knows he could never indulge in in real life.

With watching porn, I discovered my bisexuality.

Porn does different things to different people.

If I were you, I would ask him what he finds intriguing in the porn he watches, is there something he would like to do/try? I wouldn't make it into a bad thing unless he has 'illigal' types of porn, then I would be a bit concerned.

I hope I helped, hun!

Naytally
06-28-2008, 05:15 PM
Oh, and your username is awesome if it has to do with World of Warcraft <3 <3 <3


makelovenotwarcraft
06-28-2008, 05:23 PM
hehe yea :)

moony
06-28-2008, 05:29 PM
A lot of my girlfriends have had this same problem and have come to me for advice. I know my boy watches porn sometimes, but it doesn't bother me. Despite the fact that those porn women are typically way thinner than me with perkier breasts, I know my boyfriend finds me sexy and is aroused by me, cause he wouldn't be with me if he wasn't. People have physical needs that must be met. So here's my philosophy:

Sometimes you can't go out for dinner. You gotta just make yourself a sandwich.

mescelestus
06-28-2008, 05:37 PM
porn is something that most men are compelled to associate with, even if they are perfectly satisfied with their partner. i think it has something to do with them wanting to be intimate with themselves and have sexual experiences personally in order to be better acquainted with their sexuality.

mkat321
06-28-2008, 06:12 PM
porn is nothing to worry about as long as both parties agree that it is okay. It's when there's an agreement between the two that it's not allowed and one indulges in it that it becomes a problem, IME.

For me, my husband is deployed. He hasn't come right out and said it but I'm sure he looks at things. They have some pretty hefty filters on the computers and their unit does frequent sweeps to check for porn in their trailers, but alot of the guys have them on their American cell phones, pictures of their wives/girlfriends, pictures of random hookups, screen shots of porn mags, etc. They pass them around, keep the phones charged even though alot of them don't have international calling, just to keep those images available. It doesn't bother me in the least.

makelovenotwarcraft
06-28-2008, 06:45 PM
Ok well thnx for the replies i suppose then its just me with a problem and i need to sort it out hopefully i will in time.

PhotoChick
06-28-2008, 06:52 PM
There's nothing wrong, IMO, with watching porn. I do it. My guy does it. It's no big deal. Again, IMO. Also keep in mind that in general men are more visually stimulated than women; for them porn is simply a way to become aroused, not an emotional trigger point.

But there are two issues here: One is that you have a problem with it. Some people will say that if you have a problem with it, he should be respectful of your feelings and not watch it.

The other perspective is that since it's not harming anyone, you should be respectful of his desire to watch it (as long as it's not negatively impacting your sex life) and not forbid him to.

(I tend to agree with the 2nd perspective - for me it would be like my guy forbidding me to eat chocolate because *he* doesn't like it and doesn't think it's good for me.)

I also agree with Naytally above, that porn can be a good/fun thing to incorporate into a healthy relationship. It's amazing what you can learn from a decent porn video! :) And there is porn out there geared towards women as well ... porn that's slightly less graphic and more story based. OTOH, most men prefer gonzo porn (IME) and I think that's what a lot of women have a hard time with.

This is one of those areas where, unfortunately, the concept of mutually respecting each other's opinions/thoughts/desires (him never watching vs. you being really upset by his watching) is not always 100% possible and so you have to work out a balance of some kind. It's not always easy.

.

GradPhase
06-28-2008, 07:06 PM
Basically - here's my view on it.

I'm a 19 year old female college Sophomore with a 3.8 GPA. I'm in a stable secure relationship with my boyfriend whom I live with. I don't necessarily believe in waiting to have sex until you're married. But I absolutely do believe in being with someone long enough to have strong foundations of your relationship in place, and an understanding of respect, maturity and fidelity before considering having sex. As well, of course, as using protection and being as safe about it as possible.

If my guy wants to watch porn - he absolutely can, and I'd be okay with watching it with him. I don't personally take offense to it, because I know we're secure enough in our relationship that I don't perceive it as a threat to our bond. Just as if he wants to masturbate, I won't take that as "Why don't you want to have sex with me??". Sometimes you just want what you want, and if you know what you want, and it doesn't hurt of affect anyone else around you - go for it (and sometimes, I just REALLY need to study LOL).

I can respect that he thinks there's something erotic about watching people have sex (Like I think it's erotic to watch him editing blue prints before work, when he's focused and work-oriented and dressed up - Mmmmm) , and I don't look at the girls doing it as something indicative of what he'd prefer me to look like (Can you honestly say you don't flirt with the cute waiter when you're out with your girl friends? And even though you do, aren't you still so glad to come home to your guy?) . I'm sure if we had our own pornography he'd be happy to watch that as well.


It sounds to me from how you prefaced the situation that you care more about your insecurities than about him watching the porn. He's not out having sex with other women, he's home with you. HE thinks you're beautiful, and HE wants to be with you. If you are morally against porn, then that's a talk the two of you need to have. If it comes down to morals and your opinions differ, you could have a lot more future problems in your relationship than this one. But just try not to let the negative voices in your head take the reigns in your relationship. I'd suggest you watch porn with him, and see if you can at least understand what it is he enjoys about it. Watch it. Talk about it. Communicate - that's really what it comes down you.

And in my opinion, just as it's wrong for him to 'hide' the porn from you, it's also wrong to snoop around his computer. If you're looking for dirt, anywhere, for any reason, it's usually possible to find at least a little dust. Nobody's perfect.


Oh oh oh. And I wanted to add that it's actually pretty common for guys to fantasize about other people during sex. It's not a personal thing - it's just what guys do. Whether it's Christina Aguilera or the coffee chick around the corner, it happens. My personal opinion on THAT - is I don't care who my guy talks to, or flirts with, or dances against - as long he comes home to *me*. As long as he's not making out with some chick in the corner, or having an emotional affair - he's free to go out with the guys and be a guy - as long as he comes home and does me ;) I definitely don't want our relationship to burn out too early because we're acting like we're an old married couple at only 19. I want us to last - and part of that is letting eachother be young while we're young. ****


And now that I've written an entire novel for you, I'm pressing post now, haha. Good luck.


(**** Disclaimer: I have no idea if this is the recipe for success or not, I'm totally guessing. I just know that I want to marry this guy and I don't want us to divorce twenty years from now because we screwed up somewhere along the line, like my parents. :S But it sounds good in theory for now, and it's working for us so far ****)

makelovenotwarcraft
06-28-2008, 07:22 PM
I completly understand everything you are saying, however i don't know i have such a problem with it i mean i think it is just because i feel every other girl is better than me and such... i dont go out and flirt and i don't really have any friends so i suppose i lack the same views as others as i do not experiance them.
I suppose i just need to find a half way point and communicate to him lots as well as realising that it is just a video and such.

yoyoma
06-28-2008, 07:27 PM
Some information...

1) Your husband has a *lot* of company.

-A study in 2004 showed the top three search engines accounted for about 5.5% of all internet site visits (all engines together accounted for 13.8%). Porn sites got 18.8%.

-I've seen much higher estimates for the percentage of bandwidth consumed by porn. That may be decreasing due to increased competition from other bandwidth-hungry apps (VOIP, teleconferencing, youtube, etc).

2) Recently someone on 3FC posted a study showing that it is healthy for men to look at pictures of busty women for ten minutes daily. Seems to have sort of the same effect as a workout. Sorry, but I can't find the link.

I'm sorry that his looking at porn bothers you. But it sounds like you are open minded and willing to work towards an understanding with him. I think that's great!

It's very unfortunate that he felt he had to go behind your back rather than discuss the topic with you. By showing that you are flexible on this topic, maybe you can help lay the groundwork for more openness in the future.

Good luck!

PhotoChick
06-28-2008, 07:32 PM
You said in your first post that you're young and sheltered (and most people won't admit to that at all .. :) ), so I do think that you're ahead of the game here in realizing that about yourself. I truly don't think this means there's a "problem" with you, necessarily. :)

I agree with Eskinomad about maybe watching some on your own or w/ your boyfriend. At the very least it'll help you to knowledgeably know why you don't like porn, if you continue to not like it. Or, watching it with your bf, you may find you like it.

And ya know - sometimes my guy and I will watch something together and it just gives both of us the giggles. You just have to look at some of it and go "who does that anyway???" Or he'll watch something that totally turns him on and send it to me and I'll go "eh, whatever". What's funny is that rarely does it ever happen the other way around. ;)

There are some people who truly do have an ethical/moral issue with porn. I don't agree with those people, but I can respect that they feel that way (as long as they don't try to dictate what I can or can't watch/read). If that is part of the issue in any relationship, as Eskinomad said above, then there are deeper issues that might cause long term problems.

But it seems like you're willing to be open minded and I think that's a good thing. :)

.

yoyoma
06-28-2008, 07:38 PM
You posted again before I had a chance to send off my last msg, so I have minor followup.

Regarding the porn stars -- of course you don't look like them. Neither do I or anyone else I know. There just aren't many human women who look like that. I expect the percentage that hasn't had plastic surgery is vanishingly small.

Porn isn't about real people and real emotions. A lot of porn is completely artificial -- cartoon depictions and computer generated models, in large part because the features can be exaggerated further. He doesn't prefer those artificial constructs over you. It's just recreation.

kaplods
06-28-2008, 08:38 PM
Before what we consider porn was readily available (in the dark ages) boys and men looked at naked and semi-naked photos in the National Geographic and the underwear section of the Sears catalogs.

Most men, and some women are visually oriented sexually, and enjoy looking at provocative images (to varying extents and degrees).

What is considered ok, and what isn't, really should be discussed and AGREED upon in a relationship. If your desires are in opposition (it is my opinion that) the solution probably should be a compromise rather than one person getting their way completely (I think that's true for most things).

Shortly after my husband and I were married, my husband received a postcard for a discounted membership to Playboy, and asked me if I minded if he subscribed. In hindsight, I wonder if he was testing my response more than he wanted the magazine. I told him I was fine with it, and he ordered the magazine. I know it's cliche to read Playboy for the articles, but it's true the magazine has darned good articles. Often, I would read the magazine before my husband. Sometimes we looked at the magazine together, and we'd talk about the unrealistic images of the women. He didn't renew his subscription because he said Playboy was photographing fewer and fewer women with women's bodies. Not only were the girls more adolescent looking, they were mostly, shaved, and hubby found them creepy, saying that the models all looked like prepubescent girls, and didn't like the pedophile attitude that implied.

My hubby's friend gave him a porn cartoon, and I watched it - hubby didn't. I wouldn't say I found it sexy, but it was hilarious.

My husband loves me and makes me feel beautiful and sexy. Even at nearly 400 lbs, he looked at me like I was the most beautiful woman on the planet. He's funny and outgoing, and I think handsome. Some other women did too, because there have been several times when a thinner, prettier woman has flirted with him, in my presence (seeing me, but considering me no threat, I guess). Once a woman tried to slip my husband her phone number while we were in the grocery store. I was about a half aisle away, but the woman had seen us together, so knew we were together. He pointed to me said loudly (so I could hear) as if he didn't understand, that she should give the number to me because he would lose it (the woman slunk away).

Once we ate in an oriental restaurant (in japan, really big men like the sumo wrestlers are considered very attractive), our waitress (very tiny, and very beautiful) asked us if we were brother and sister, and couldn't hide the disappointment in her voice when she learned we were married (she was so sweet, it was cute and I actually felt a bit sad for her).

I'm not afraid of losing my husband. When he would go out with the guys, I would kiss him goodbye and tell him "no cheap ho's" as a silly joke between us. One day he asked how he would know if the ho was too cheap, and I told him if he could afford her, she was too cheap. Then he asked about "free" hos, and I said definitely NO free hos. He (jokingly) complained that I wasn't being fair, so I suggested that if he ever met anyone he wanted to hook up with, she could submit an application and I would review it.

Now all of this is a silly joke, but that we would even joke about it, shocked his friends. Most of them have wives that are very jealous about guys night. Heck, I'm not worried, especially since one night I called my husband and I heard Lion King in the background. Now, I knew the plan was pizza, beers, and movies, but the Lion King! (It was hubby's choice - he's addictied to sweet animation movies, and he's big enough and scary looking, few of even his friends tease him about it).

One night they did go to the strip club (one of the unmarried guys birthdays). Most of the married guys don't want to go to the strip club - it isn't the naked ladies, it's paying twice as much for beers that annoys them.

Anyway, one of the strippers was off duty and stuck around drinking and flirting with the guys, talking about going home with somebody. When she got to my hubby, he told her (for the benefit of the guys who knew about it) that she would have to submit an application and have an interview with his wife first. Ok, the girl was drunk, and a little dumb to begin with (according to hubby) so she didn't get that it was a joke, and she got really angry and creeped out. She called hubby a pervert and left the guys alone (to what sounds like everyone's relief - the guys really do only want to watch, not touch). When he told me about the event, I nearly peed myself laughing.

I don't know how to pass on that kind of security to anyone else, but I know that hubby picked ME, and only wants ME. I don't worry about him having an affair. Not only because I trust him not to, but because I know he would be an idiot to risk losing me. He's not stupid, so I know I can trust him. I'm not saying there isn't a remote chance that something could happen, but I can't spend my life worrying about someone else (even my husband and best friend in the universe) making a stupid mistake.

Talk to your husband about it, and work out something you both can feel ok with.

If you're not morally opposed to it (and not just uninterested), consider finding some couple-friendly porn and watch it together. There is even porn designed for couples and women (can't remember one of the production company's name, but it's owned by a woman) - the movies are more romantic with a lot more plot and foreplay leading to the naked parts. It might help you see it from a different perspective (and might be fun).

Nothing makes me feel more romantic than a chick flick (regular, non porn kind like Sleepless in Seattle, or You've got mail), but that doesn't mean that I want to sleep with Tom Hanks (now if I were single...). And watching porn doesn't mean that either of us want to have sex with the actors on the screen.

A lot of people feel differently, and I respect that. Just wanted to share my (slightly odd) perspective.

PhotoChick
06-28-2008, 08:53 PM
Kaplods and I seem to be on a similar wavelength here.

My guy likes to watch porn. He and I both are fairly sexual people in general and we often joke with each other about other women/men. He is also a photographer and will often call or text me from a wedding he's shooting and tell me that his bride is *hot* or that some woman has awesome boobs. :) It's a running joke between us ... sometimes if he hasn't texted me right away, I"ll text him back and say I'm disappointed that I haven't gotten the boob review yet.

My friends are often shocked that I "allow" this ... but I don't see that it's something that I have the right to "allow" or "disallow". This is part of who he is and his sexuality and love of women is one of the things that attracted me to him. To try to restrict that now would be hypocritical of me.

I also know that no matter how much he may joke about some woman having amazing boobs or an amazing a$$, it's all surface for him and he is one of the most amazingly respectful men I've ever met and really enjoys the company of women - rather than just seeing them as sex objects.

In my experience, men who are really into women - I mean as people and to enjoy their company and their intelligence as much as their looks - enjoy the whole package - including the sexual end of it. And I know that my guy isn't all "surface" because he and I started our relationship when I was at my heaviest - so whatever he may say about Ashley Judd having a perfect body (*grin*), I'm the one he's taking to bed with him. :)

FWIW.

.

GradPhase
06-28-2008, 11:32 PM
Woo!! I just love your responses, Kaplods and Photochick. I'm joining your bandwagon. I was cracking up at the "No cheap ho's" dialog and the wedding boobs :rofl:

snapless
06-29-2008, 12:34 AM
I'm on the same wavelength as kaplods and photochick. My husband (second marriage) and I joke around about stuff a lot.

One of our favorites is, he'll say something as if he's repeating himself, and I'll say something indicating he hasn't told me that before, and then say, "It must have been your mistress you told that to." Or vice versa and it will be -me- with the lover.

If he wants to watch/look at porn, I have no issues with that. I know that he loves me and even if <insert hot woman here> made a pass at him in a way he could take complete advantage of it without my ever finding out, he'd decline. The same is true for me. We both had horrible first marriages with all the distrust and problems that arise from it and we are perfectly happy with and trusting of each other.

Now, I think the problem here is not so much the porn, but the fact that he did it behind your back and hid it from you.

I'm not condoning the fact that he, in essence, lied, but I will say that you, in a way, brought it on yourself. Trying to force someone to be something they are not will only cause rift, dishonesty and lack of trust between you. Understand and accept him for who he is - that is the person you married.

When I was with my ex, he was adamant that I HAD to stop smoking. I smoked before we met, while we dated, and afterward. I stopped when I was pregnant and nursing. He expected...no, he demanded of me that I stayed quit. So what happened when I stopped nursing and wanted a smoke? I wound up smoking at work only and leaving my cigarettes there...in essence, lying to him because I wasn't being up front. That was my mistake. I should have been directly honest. At the same time, he should not have 'put his foot down' and demanded I change into something I wasn't. If an adult person wants to change, they will change, and no amount of wheedling, demanding, whining or refusing to accept them the way they are will force them to it earlier.

You need to come to terms with your own issues about your husband. Learn to accept (and love!) him for who he is and what he does and not try to change him.

Bring the issue of the porn out in the open (stewing about something is not emotionally healthy) - make sure you let him know you love him and the issue is not the porn but the fact that he did it behind your back.

Good luck with your relationship, I wish the best for you!

GradPhase
06-29-2008, 12:41 AM
How long have the two of you been together, Warcraft?

Naytally
06-29-2008, 01:08 AM
Kaplods and I seem to be on a similar wavelength here.

My guy likes to watch porn. He and I both are fairly sexual people in general and we often joke with each other about other women/men. He is also a photographer and will often call or text me from a wedding he's shooting and tell me that his bride is *hot* or that some woman has awesome boobs. :) It's a running joke between us ... sometimes if he hasn't texted me right away, I"ll text him back and say I'm disappointed that I haven't gotten the boob review yet.

My friends are often shocked that I "allow" this ... but I don't see that it's something that I have the right to "allow" or "disallow". This is part of who he is and his sexuality and love of women is one of the things that attracted me to him. To try to restrict that now would be hypocritical of me.

I also know that no matter how much he may joke about some woman having amazing boobs or an amazing a$$, it's all surface for him and he is one of the most amazingly respectful men I've ever met and really enjoys the company of women - rather than just seeing them as sex objects.

In my experience, men who are really into women - I mean as people and to enjoy their company and their intelligence as much as their looks - enjoy the whole package - including the sexual end of it. And I know that my guy isn't all "surface" because he and I started our relationship when I was at my heaviest - so whatever he may say about Ashley Judd having a perfect body (*grin*), I'm the one he's taking to bed with him. :)

FWIW.

.

Wow... Do you know that your relationship sounds almost exactly like mine? My guy works as a maintenance man in our community and he always tells me about the cute lifeguards at the pool and the hot chick with the nice rack that just moved in down the street, yada yada. I'm bisexual so I love that kind of thing, as well, so he's doing it more to drive me crazy and then he takes care of me after he gets home from work :wink:

full of grace
06-29-2008, 01:32 AM
I'm with the majority on this, in terms of my relationship, our shared philosophy on flirting and finding others attractive, and the healthy sexual behavior that is "fantasy" (and that is defined differently for men and for women, as has already been discussed here).

For me, the "issue" would be the secrecy.

Obviously, everyone is going to have a different level of comfort with pornography, fantasy, online "worlds," etc., but FOR ME, in a relationship, there should be very few--if any--real secrets. So, I'm actually pretty "okay" with almost anything, as long as it's not hidden, filled with shame, somehow squirreled away in another part of my lover's life.

So, would you have the same level of discomfort with your partner's choices if he were looking at a magazine? Or watching a video on TV? Or seeing a peepshow type performance? Is it the "hiding" of it that's the problem? Or is it his need for fantasy that causes you stress?

Because for me, it's always been the "hiding" that's more stressful than any of the, "Ooh, he thinks she's prettier than I am," or "...skinnier than I am," or "...more sexy than I am," stuff (also because my partners have always--I'm incredibly lucky this way--affirmed that I am the hottest, sexiest, most wonderful woman they've ever been with, which I know is very helpful with my tolerance level for any of the fantasy or real-life flirting stuff).

Just as I wouldn't want my husband to hide a bank account from me, I wouldn't want him to hide a part of his sexuality from me either.

But I think the American mindset is quite "closed off" sexually; way more conservative than other cultures. And often most of our "issues" with fantasy and sex are based in "shame" which is just a... well... it's a shame! ;)

The only reason I would be upset, if I were in your shoes would be if I learned my husband were going to great lengths to hide the behavior from me and/or communicating with strangers who were doing "on demand" sexual acts for him via web-cam or something like that. I think looking at attractive people (in person, in magazines, online, wherever) and becoming aroused isn't a huge problem (unless it's an addiction or somehow deviant in nature--and then, by whose definition is "deviant" defined, really?), but there is a line somewhere, and for me it has to do with honesty and the balance in our overall relationship.

Not sure if any of that is helpful, but that's what I felt compelled to type, after reading this thread thus far. ;)

:hug:

Good luck to you!! Hang in there and good for you, seeking out some advice and compassion.

PhotoChick
06-29-2008, 02:58 AM
Edited to say quickly that I'm quoting 2 different people here ... just forgot to add atributes. :)

he always tells me about the cute lifeguards at the pool and the hot chick with the nice rack that just moved in down the street, yada yada. I'm bisexual so I love that kind of thing, as well, so he's doing it more to drive me crazy and then he takes care of me after he gets home from work :wink:Hahah. That made me laugh out loud for real. When we first started seeing each other I'd teasingly roll my eyes at him ... now when he texts me he waits for me to roll my eyes ... and we joke that the day isn't complete unless I've given him a good solid eyeroll!

Just as I wouldn't want my husband to hide a bank account from me, I wouldn't want him to hide a part of his sexuality from me either.

But I think the American mindset is quite "closed off" sexually; way more conservative than other cultures. And often most of our "issues" with fantasy and sex are based in "shame" which is just a... well... it's a shame!I agree with grace on both of these! I think it's possible though that his hiding it has to do with knowing that the OP would be upset. I could see that either he's hiding it because he knows she'd be angry or he's hiding it becuase he doesn't want her feelings to be hurt or both. Or, honestly, he could be ashamed of it a little. As grace said above, Americans tend to have issues with sex and I know that my husband used to hide his porn from me, even though he knew I didn't have a problem with it and even though he knew I knew ... just becuase he was raised to believe that it was something shameful.

It's too bad really ... I think we should all be honest with ourselves and our spouses/SOs about our sexuality. It's just something that (here in America) is looked on as shameful or forbidden.

.

full of grace
06-29-2008, 07:32 AM
It's too bad really ... I think we should all be honest with ourselves and our spouses/SOs about our sexuality. It's just something that (here in America) is looked on as shameful or forbidden

We live in a place/culture where sex gets a movie an R rating, but violence will earn it a PG-13.

Parents seem to teach their kids to cover their eyes when a kissing scene comes on screen, but not when someone is eviscerating another.

It's totally natural to imagine that someone feels stress over having his/her sexual "needs" discovered by another party. It's a part of our culture, sadly, that it would "feel" weird.

Once we get past the shame associated with fantasy, masturbation, and speaking frankly about our sexual attractions/needs, I think a LOT of our issues will dissolve away.

But I know that's a big uphill climb, simply based on the very root of our culture, in most places.

Patience, caring, understanding... these things will help a lot. But yeah, if there's a chronic secret-keeping going on, that's an issue much larger than anything strictly sex-related, and that's worth dealing with on another level entirely.

:hug:

Runfre
06-29-2008, 11:36 AM
I think you need to hear the other side...

First you have already stated that this bothers you, you have ask him to quit and he either can't or won't. To me that is a bad sign. He is either addicted or dosn't care enough about YOUR feelings to bother making an effort.

You are asking strangers to tell you how you should feel when it is clear that this bothers you. You KNOW in your heart how you feel. There are good reasons for this-not everyone feels porn is OK.

Many people have moral objections. Just because millions of people do something doesn't make it right.

Porn makes sex a selfish act, clearly not about the other person, but focusing only on self gratification.

Contrary to common belief, porn does not help a marriage. Divorce lawyers are now claiming that Internet porn is a leading cause OF divorce.

Porn IS addictive and tends to esculate. What starts out as "mild porn" once a week, quickly turns into raunchier and more frequent porn. Everyone I have ever known about that is additive to porn has started out with soft porn. Pretty soon that is no longer enough and they slip into riskier and more forbidden acts onscreen to tantilize-often using underage girls or violence. Part of the allure of porn is the forbidden...Come on now, porn does not excite men by depicting average looking women having conventional or even slightly wild sex-it is always ranchy and taboo breaking. Don't tell me that none of those images come back to help exicte a man when he IS having sex with his wife. Sorry, I DO NOT want MY husband thinking about those women and that context when he is with me...

Pornography, as an industry, feeds and breeds rapists and child molesters. No, not all men who view porn become child pedators or rapists, but why support an industry that clearly portrays such things and encourages them?

Personally, I would not stand by and enable my husband to use porn any more than I would enable him to have affairs, drink to excess or gamble our savings away. I do not have to allow destructive behavior to keep my husband or have a good marriage. (He has no access at work and does not have an account on our home computer by his choice - he works with computers all day and doesn't really enjoy them that much). This does NOT make me "insecure" in my relationship - It makes me smart and not sadly naive. I would counter with the fact that those of you are are fat and feel unattractive may allow more leeway than you admit to being happy with because of YOUR insecurities. Woman who feel no one else would have them tend to allow more abuse from thier BF's or husbands than those who think they have options.

I have held the hand of many a sweet and sad woman who was convinced a little porn was OK, only to have it downslide into addiction and/or actual affairs and/or financial problems - Another issue of porn few address - it ends of being costly in actual dollars as well as the other costs.

And one doesn't have to be immoral, before or after marriage to have a happy marriage-I don't understand where that idea has come from. We have been happily married 34 years, so I think I can say we've done something right.

And, BTW, I am done with ths board so all the flaming and nasty comments will only be for each other - I won't see them.

vixjean
06-29-2008, 11:50 AM
I have heard on a sex radio program, dr rachel, that it is OKAY for them to do that, as long as it isn't an addiction, like as long as he can still do it with you, and go to work and sleep normal hours, then it is normal.

SoulBliss
06-29-2008, 12:26 PM
I have heard on a sex radio program, dr rachel, that it is OKAY for them to do that, as long as it isn't an addiction, like as long as he can still do it with you, and go to work and sleep normal hours, then it is normal.
"Normal"? *shudder* :^:

Some of us and our partners aspire to be something other than "normal", knowing that "normal" people eat at Mc Donald's, drive gas-guzzling SUV's, lie to their spouses on the regular, don't stop to help where they see it is needed and "pass the buck" at every given opportunity.

I went off on a tangent. :o

GradPhase
06-29-2008, 12:47 PM
I'm glad to see arguments from both sides of the threshold on this topic, because it is both very personal and very controversial.

In my opinion, not everyone who watches porn is going to become addicted to it, and not only rapists and child molesters watch it. And I'm pretty sure most of my friends' parents probably have their own homemade stash in a box in their closet somewhere. Maybe it's a generational thing, but I don't think it's that much of a shocker. The human body having sex doesn't offend me or shock me any more than if I saw two lions going at it at the zoo.

PhotoChick
06-29-2008, 02:13 PM
While I'm glad to see both points of view, I do think it's telling that someone with only 10 posts here decides to post a rant that's not based in fact and then make a grand exit complete with invitation to flame.

And I think it's worth discussing some of the points she threw out before she left in a huff (apparently at the moral decay of the women on this board who are open about their sexuality).

First you have already stated that this bothers you, you have ask him to quit and he either can't or won't. To me that is a bad sign. He is either addicted or dosn't care enough about YOUR feelings to bother making an effort.I disagree with this. I'll go back to my analogy about chocolate. Or actually, let's make it coffee. Say my husband felt that drinking coffee was immoral because of the way it was grown and processed. Say he felt VERY strongly about that and then told me that I couldn't drink coffee because to do so would be disrespecting his feelings. But I don't agree with him that coffee is bad in that way and I am upset that he would force his moral code on me - so I chose to drink coffee when he wasn't there to see me. Does that mean I don't care about him? Or that I was addicted? Nope. It would mean that we had a basic disagreement about the issue and that we needed to talk it out. It might be something that is so much of a basic disagreement that it might affect the future of our relationship. That's possible

But no one person in any relationship should get to say "My morals or my feelings are more important than yours and therefore you have to abide by what makes me comfortable." If you can't agree or if one persons feelings/morals make the other person uncomfortable, then it's likely that the relationship isn't going to be a strong one.

Porn makes sex a selfish act, clearly not about the other person, but focusing only on self gratification.I also disagree with that. Why is porn only about "one person"? Tons of couples use porn as a healthy part of their relationships to excite each other and to enhance their sex lives.

Contrary to common belief, porn does not help a marriage. Divorce lawyers are now claiming that Internet porn is a leading cause OF divorce.
There's no source for that. It's simply not true, statistically.

Porn IS addictive and tends to esculate.
No, sorry, it's not. That is simply a false scientific statement. ANYTHING can be addictive to someone who has an addictive personality. Food, as many of us on this forum know, can be addictive. That doesn't make food inherently bad. It just means that some people can't control their relationship to it. So if someone here is addicted to food and cannot have trigger foods in her house, does that mean all the rest of us have to avoid the same trigger foods because they're "immoral" for causing an addiction?

What starts out as "mild porn" once a week, quickly turns into raunchier and more frequent porn. Everyone I have ever known about that is additive to porn has started out with soft porn. Pretty soon that is no longer enough and they slip into riskier and more forbidden acts onscreen to tantilize-often using underage girls or violence.
And there, you've just said that all of us who have posted are potential pedophiles and abusers. Taht's simply false. Every man I've ever dated and many of my friends watch porn every once in a while. Not a one of them has "escalated" to violence or pedophilia. Further there are no statistics anywhere that show that point of view to be accurate or substantiated.

.Come on now, porn does not excite men by depicting average looking women having conventional or even slightly wild sex-it is always ranchy and taboo breaking.
Obvously you haven't watched much porn. Or you don't have raunchy sex with your husband! :) I would say the vast majority of the porn I watch and that my guy and I watch is stuff that is perfectly normal and that he and I have done. The rest of it usually involves multiple partners which ... some people might not be into that and I can understand completely ... but you can choose not to watch that kind of porn if you're not interested in it. Just like you can choose not to watch horror movies or foreign movies or whatever you don't really enjoy.

Pornography, as an industry, feeds and breeds rapists and child molesters. This is absolutely FLAT OUT FALSE. Panic mongering using hysterical and unsubstantiated ranting shouldn't be listened to.

I would counter with the fact that those of you are are fat and feel unattractive may allow more leeway than you admit to being happy with because of YOUR insecurities. Woman who feel no one else would have them tend to allow more abuse from thier BF's or husbands than those who think they have options.
And HERE is the entire reason for this post: A chance to insult all of us. This paragraph negates ANY valid thing that she may have said anywhere in here. Would you take advice from someone who obviously looked down on you because you were fat????? I wouldn't. Obviously she has her own issues.

.

ShootingStar
06-29-2008, 02:25 PM
When I was first married it bothered me, but now that he is my EX husband/roommate, I wish he would find someone else for real and LEAVE. I do make sure to remind my boys (they play video games) that real women don't look like those characters.

KLK
06-29-2008, 02:35 PM
I think it depends on what kind of porn it is and how often he's watching it. If it's something occasional and pretty 'standard' then I don't think I'd have a problem (provided he isn't filling the computer with it or paying for it). On the other hand... if the porn is something, um, illegal or really, really bizarre and/or he's watching it a lot and it's interfering with the relationship, I'd have a problem.

But I wouldn't have a problem bc the porn stars are thinner than me or anything... they're all 100% plastic and ... you know... they have s3x for money... believe me, there is no reason to feel jealous of that!

JulieJ08
06-29-2008, 03:04 PM
He pointed to me said loudly (so I could hear) as if he didn't understand, that she should give the number to me because he would lose it (the woman slunk away).

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

kaplods
06-29-2008, 03:07 PM
I think the definitions and morality of the issue and even the arguments for/against ALL exist on a spectrum. Everyone will probably draw the line in a slightly different spot.

I mean even starting with the definition of porn and infidelity. Does Baywatch qualify? R movies...romance novels... Nude art... Fantasies... a close platonic opposite sex friend? Indulging in any of these can be disruptive to a relationship, especially if the partners do so at the expense of the relationship or when each partner's "line" is very far from the others.

It is ok to draw your line where you see it. I think it's probably a good idea for people to discuss as many of "the lines" as they can before moving in together or getting married. I know my husband and I did. We discussed many, many things and our positions on them. We made sure that the ones we each felt were important were discussed thouroughly.

When we met, I had fully believed that I would NEVER EVER marry a smoker. I met him through an ad I placed in the local newspaper and its website, and I didn't specify non-smoker. I also didn't think to ask when I met my husband on the phone. By the time we'd met, I was pretty attached to the guy and I had to rethink my position on smoking. It was darned difficult, because I wasn't just turned off by smoking, I was very allergic. My eyes would itch, burn and swell when I visited his apartment.

He gave up smoking for me. He wasn't able to quit easily, and he had several relapses. He will occasionally have a cigarette or cigar on "boys night," but he takes a shower and brushes his teeth before coming to bed. He never smokes in the house or near me.

This was a case in which I was able and willing to move my line. You may not be willing to do so, and that is perfectly fine. It could end your relationship with this man, and if you feel that strongly, there's no shame in that either.

Another line I moved, and maybe shouldn't have is moving in with him before we married. I knew I wanted to marry him, but some of his prior relationships had been very drama-filled, and he was very insecure. His parents had also divorced, and their relationship (before and after teh divorce) was VERY ugly. I moved my line because of his insecurities, rather than my own values. I still regret it, mostly because I think maybe he would be less insecure now. He still has fears that I will find someone better and leave him. And that often is the mentality of some people. I've tried to reassure him that I am comitted to him, and that it would take alot more than a "better offer" to inspire me to leave him. But some of that insecurity still exists. In a recent argument, he interpreted something I said as a threat to leave him, and he got physically ill. He vomited every few hours for the whole day. It's taught me to be much more careful of what I say.


The important thing for a relationships longevity though is to discuss and be very open and honest about our boundaries, and only make compromises we can comfortably live with. Doing otherwise tends to be soul-eating.

My sharing my experience wasn't meant to tell you where you should draw your line. If I knew my husband was spending a lot of time watching porn or was watching porn I found disturbing, we would have to discuss it and I'd have to evaluate whether it has crossed my line. Since my tolerance of sexual content is higher than his, that probably isn't going to be a problem.
But something else might be.

For example, my husband has a bad habit of often inviting friends on outings we've planned together, without thinking to ask me (especially since his best friend moved into our apartment building). It was driving me batty. Not that every trip to the grocery store was intended as a romantic outing, but I wanted to be consulted first.

He's gotten ALOT better, and if he hadn't it could have caused major issues between us, even though in the scheme of things it's rather silly.

Don't be ashamed to draw your line in a different spot than he would, but talk about those boundaries and try to come to an agreement you both can agree with.