General chatter - Oh jeeze- what do I do??

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12-17-2007, 08:08 PM
My son has turned into the school bully (grade 1). Today he ended up punching out one of the kids he walks to daycare with and gave the poor kid a bloody nose.

The school must have been trying to get in touch with me at work but couldn't so they called the babysitter.

for some reason he seems to think he can make kids listen by hitting, kicking and punching them. It's so frustrating

Once upon a time I used to spank him (pants on, one swat etc) and I would have child welfare on my arse threatening to take them away from me and throw me in jail (in front of the kids btw).

I've grounded him to his room for the week. Todd and I figured a way to really punish him is to make him give one of his nice Christmas presents to the boy he hit to apologize... but I'm worried it could cause more problems.

He has gone to a special school since he was 3 - he has ADHD. He has always been voilent - neither his father or I are voilent. After going to this school and enrolling in a public school he tamed down a bit. Now just the tiniest thing will throw him into a voilent tizzy. He ended up punching this kid because he was walking behind him to school. Chris kept telling him to stop folling him (which he wasn't). The little boy ended up ignoring him and minded his own business then Chris turned around and punched him in the nose!!!!

MY GOD why is he acting out like this???

12-17-2007, 08:57 PM
I really can't give much advice TAMARA since I don't know the dynamics of your family. I will give you some hope though! I am raising my 17 yr. old nephew, I have for almost 6 years now. He was diagnosed ADHD...I won't take time right now to go through his "rough" childhood...but I will say that he was very violent in his younger years....very....he no longer is.

He was medicated with his parents ~ I refused for him to be (not sure that was right...but he was like a zombie on the drugs) long story/short ~ he ASKED me to get him back on the drugs after he was off them for 5 years ~ to focus ~ our doctor...a god...said yep ~ he needed to be on them ~ well, he so far in almost 2 years he has taken 40 pills! He takes them when he needs to focus...he is on his own.

My POINT ~ I sure can drag things out can't I...wink ~ He outgrew the violence stuff! Prayers for your family!! As you go through this tough time ~ Gary

12-17-2007, 09:21 PM
Hey Tamara,

Sheesh - don't you hate those calls from the school? It's almost as bad as the letters from the principal. I am the mother of two ADHD daughters so I feel your pain although girls exhibit ADHD in totally different ways from boys. Can I assume that you have a behavorial psychologist you can call? There may be a reason for his relapse into the behavior. With my girls it can be a change in their life or even an illness coming on. First grade is a hard year for boys. So many things change and with these kids it's harder on them. I could go on and on but I won't.

Is he medicated? I know everyone has their opinions on medications but my girls have done wonderfully on them and the newer ones don't zone these kids out as much as the older ones did. If he is medicated maybe a change is called for? Different meds work differently for different people or a dosage change may be needed. Hang in there. We're here for you. :hug: Call your son's doctor if you feel the need. I used to hate to do that but once I got over it I realized they really do understand and support me and they may be able to recommend someone else who specializes in it.

Maria - Mom to 9 y.o. ADHD - combined Hyperactive/Attention Deficit, 6 y.o. ADHD - Attention Deficit, wife to ADHD - combined husband and most likely a little AD herself (how could I not be with all this going on? :D)

12-18-2007, 09:25 AM
Thanks for your prayers Gary.

We have tried the medication route... and yes it helps him focus... but the bad thing is he focusus more on his anger. I was against the medication and was quite happy when I was able to take him off of them.

As I said, he has exibited violence (both to himself and others) from a very young age... head bashing since he was 1 (he smashed a daycare window).
The school he started at age 3 was for children with emotional and behavioural problems. He sees a therapist on a monthly basis at school (which thankfully is provided by special funding). But after sitting with the therapist they can't quite figure out what his problems are. And all the therapists will say is "your kid needs meds".

BEtween the therapist and pediatrician he has tried three different meds (Ritalin, Dexadrine and Biphentin). None of these curbs his violent streaks, we admit that yes it has helped him initially be able to sit still and focus in class - but the school themselves agree the meds give him a meaner streak.

No matter what I do, I've been called a horrible parent by many sources - including child welfare (my son likes to make up stories... and has done so to get both his school and ourselves into trouble). Child welfare finally gave up after the last bout of abuse they delt out to me (brought a cop and threatened to drag me away to jail, in front of my children!) because my son had a case of dry skin (which was proven by the doctors... I went to a clinic the minute they left to prove that my son had in no way come to physical harm by me!! How frustrating!! Yet they don't bother with the kids in the city who actually NEED the help! (sorry my rant at the Child Services system... seems a little crooked - dear Lord, did you hear about the case in Canada where a muslim girl was beaten to death by her father because she wouldn't wear her religious head garb??? Mercy killing my arse!).

12-18-2007, 11:27 AM
I didnt notice has he been to a regular conselor or just a therapist? I know my son has been to counseling and I liked it, but the bad thing is that they wont tell me what is going on so I can help is all confidential, which is good, but how the heck can I help him if he wont talk to me??? You know!

I am glad you school at least calls you. I found out 2 weeks ago that my son is (according to him) on the verge of being either suspended or expelled and I know nothing of this. He said he has been in so many altercations at school in the past 2-3 years that the principal threatened to expell him if it happens again. Mind you this is a boy who is BEING bullied at school. He isnt the bully! They never told me any of this and to this day havnt told me anything. I told my son not to worry if they try to expell him without notifying me of a problem that I will definately step in and handle things, but WOW. I was in 2 fights all through school and my mom was called EACH time! What is this school thinking??? I had to sign a stupid discipline paper for my daugher having a soda in school and they are not going to tell me when my son gets in a fight or arguing match? GRRR

Back to your son. Can you take him to a specialist? Maybe there is something in his diet that is causing this? I have heard that sometimes certain foods affect ADHD/ADD children...check into it, you never know maybe it will be a easy cure for his violent outbreaks. GOOD LUCK

12-18-2007, 12:18 PM
First of all :hug: You are a GOOD MOM!! If you weren't you wouldn't be trying to find a solution right now you'd be sitting back and letting it happen and believe me, I've seen a lot of parents do that.

Second, when was the last time he had his levels checked? He is a growing boy, Lord knows kids grow! I don't have boys, but I have a girl who takes after me and she grew about a 1' over the summer!! And, speaking as a person with a chemical imbalance in her brain, who takes meds, anything change wise will throw me also. I second the thing about illness too, it can throw me for a loop and it can be something as little as a cold. The first thing my husband asks me when he see's a change, is "Are you getting sick?" meaning my physical health. A lot of times he sees it coming before I do.

Now, and this is no way shape or form in any way criticism to your parenting skills, I see you've had enough there. I see you've given him a consequence for his action, but do you do "rewarding" for a good action also? I know that helps me with my kids, and it can make a world of difference. Sometimes, it's hard to find something I can compliment, (My babies can be no angels sometimes!! LOL) but I can see a difference when I do find something.

And lastly, is he in any EC activities that can help with some of the physical attributes of his personality? We have two boys on my daghters hockey team that were deemed bullies in school, but with a lot of patience on the coaches part and a lot of push-ups and suicides (Have you ever done suicides in skates?!) and a lot of practice, the boys do show a difference. I know I know hockey can be such a violent sport in itself, but I have to say, it gives them a good way to vent. These boys are now two of my daughters best friends and no longer allow bullying to happen both on the ice and off. So maybe a good physical sport may help also (It doesn't have to be hockey, LOL I just happen to love the sport)

Just keep being an advocate for your son, remember the squeaky wheel gets the grease, keep asking those questions to his doctors DO NOT LET THEM INTIMIDATE YOU. You are you sons voice right now, if you have to, ANNOY THE H E DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS OUT OF THOSE DOCTORS!!! Do not let them just say your kid needs meds, ask them why, ask they how, just ask. Keep asking them until YOU ARE happy with their answers.

12-18-2007, 12:29 PM
Tamara, it sounds to me like he has a mental illness. It would be good to have him evaluated by a licensed child psychologist in conjunction with a psychiatrist. His behavior is beyond what is typical for ADHD. Sorry you have to deal with this! But he really does need some professional help and intervention, in my non-medical opinion.


12-18-2007, 03:27 PM
Thanks everyone.

I should mention that the special school he went to from the time he was 3 was ran by psychiatrists/ologists. He worked with them on a daily basis (play therapy was a daily activity with them one on one). These were the ones that told me he needed meds.

The principle at the school is against the meds, beacuse of them making him more voilent, yet the specialist he sees on a monthly basis (touches up with the teachers, myself and specially Chris) believes that meds are the only way to go.

The pediatricians are all for meds and keeps pushing them on him.

The last time I gave him the pills, he cried and told me that they made him feel "mad" all the time.

12-18-2007, 05:18 PM
I have my master's degree in developmental psychology, but I haven't worked in the field in over 8 years, so admit I may not have the most current information, but my impression is that maybe he isn't on the "right" meds. As I understand it, ADHD meds are a lot like antidepressents and many other meds in that they cause different effect and side effects in different people.
I personally believe that medications should never be considered first or only treatment, but that they often do help. Though meds need to be monitored and evaluated constantly, and severe side effects need to be addressed.

What did the doctors and counselors say when you told them that he was upset about taking the meds because he feels they make him angrier? Did you ask about different ADHD meds?

Have you thought of asking for a meeting with all of all the professionals together?

12-18-2007, 09:20 PM
Wow. I really feel a need to comment here. First of all, let me tell you that I come from the perspective of a teacher (6th grade, not 1st) and I totally, completely believe (and I am sure you will agree) that all students need and deserve a safe school - and this includes safety from other students.

That being said..what a smart young man you have there! He does not want to take his meds 'cause they make him feel "mad" all of the time. He does not want to feel this way but it seems as though he cannot help himself.

I agree with the previous post that suggested maybe he is not on the right medication. The other option may be behavior modification. I know it seems as though you have been going through this forever but keep it up and something at sometime will work. The most important thing, mom, is that you don't give up trying to get help for your son. Take advantage of community resources until you get to the root of the problem. Your son is counting on you!

Good luck and God Bless!

12-18-2007, 10:02 PM
The advice you have received is spot on. I will add one other suggestion. Monitor his diet very closely. My brother experienced similar behavior and removing processed foods (particularly breakfast cereals) from his diet helped tremendously. We put him on a whole foods diet, and his behavior was markedly improved in just a few weeks. I am not advocating this in place of medication, but in addition to it.

12-19-2007, 09:05 AM
Thanks everyone. I took the initiative and actually PHONED child welfare myself and asked them if they had any other free resources :) They gave me a list to call around to.

After speaking with Todd's mom last night, apparently Todd (my DH) was the same when he was little... *He's DEFFINATELY not like that now... meaning little Chris will most likely grow out of it* Todd's parents figure Chris is just a normal little boy... apparently there weren't as much bully awareness when he was growing up. Todd had chilled out as they started putting him into sports (as hockeymom mentioned) to help him physically work out the anger with some fun activitiy (and put in his spot by the coaches).

I will call around to the resources tomorrow as I have a day off.

12-19-2007, 04:24 PM
My brother was also like this as a kid. Although he wasn't exactly a bully, he was more the bully's bully. He got into an awful lot of trouble "defending" kids from bullies. Whenever he saw a kid being picked on, he'd go punch the bully or knock him to the ground. He also didn't have any qualms about calling a teacher out, if the teacher was the bully, so he'd often get sent to the "Dean of Boys" in our highschool (we actually had a dean of women and a dean of boys) for talking back to the teachers. The dean had a soft spot for my brother and worked a deal with the shop teacher, for my brother to do all of his detentions with the shop teacher after school. He built an amazing oak hutch for my parents during all of those detention hours.

My brother's daughter has ADHD, so my brother probably did too, it was just before diagnosis was common. My brother channeled his aggression into the military after high school, and just retired last year at 39 (unfortunately with PTSD from Iraq, but that's another story).

12-19-2007, 06:45 PM
My son also had ADHD. He wasn't much of a bully but seemed to get into a lot of trouble defending other kids that were getting bullied (especially his little sis). He outgrew a lot of his aggression as he got older. Like Kaplods brother my son now is in the military.

My son also was on medication for ADHD when he was younger. By 6th grade he begged to be taken off the med. cause it caused him to be "zoned out", depressed and have a very poor appetite. His lack of growth compared to his male classmates is what bothered him most. As my son got a little older, football and weight lifting were ways for him to feel better about himself.

I hope you can find the resources that will help you and your family the most. It is definitely very trying.

12-19-2007, 06:59 PM
The advice you have received is spot on. I will add one other suggestion. Monitor his diet very closely. My brother experienced similar behavior and removing processed foods (particularly breakfast cereals) from his diet helped tremendously. We put him on a whole foods diet, and his behavior was markedly improved in just a few weeks. I am not advocating this in place of medication, but in addition to it.

YES - my dear friends son had severe behavioral issues caused by egg and wheat, especially egg. This is not an avenue likely to be explored by most conventional doctors.

She found it through a naturopath, but many people have found it by doing elimination diets on the top common allergens. soy, dairy, wheat (including gluten), corn (including corn syrup and corn starch), egg, shellfish, nuts (all kinds) and artificial flavorings colorings. This can be difficult to do if you have a picky eater since all the foods have to be avoided for 2 weeks and it is very hard to avoid corn and wheat gluten. A naturopath can sometimes help you figure out if there is a likely food culprit to start with.

12-19-2007, 11:28 PM
I also would look into finding the right medications. My oldest stepson has ADHD, and we tried several different medications that are normally prescribed for ADHD. NOTHING worked, they all seemed to make him worse or did nothing at. Finally the doctor prescribed Guanfacine and he has done wonderfully on it! Guanfacine is not a typical ADHD medication, it was originally a blood pressure medication. Everybodys' body is different, sometimes you need to think outside the box!