Food Talk And Fabulous Finds - Dairy vs Soy products




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gailr42
12-09-2007, 02:58 PM
I am not clear on why one would want to substitute a soy product for a dairy product - as mentioned in another thread soy chocolate milk, for instance. I can see it in the case of lactose intolerance, but why else?

I like milk and I use either 1% or reconstituted non-fat dry milk. I notice that I don't consume nearly as much milk when I am not eating cookies, cake and peanut butter sandwiches all the time:D.

So, as a moderate milk drinker, should I consider switching? This sounds like a political question :lol:.


baffled111
12-09-2007, 03:32 PM
I don't think so. Some people like the soy for the extra nutrients, (I think) but regular dairy has nutrients too. I don't like soy milk and so I stick with milk from cows. It's yummier and the cals are about the same. Of course, vegans have their own reasons and there are probably issues with the hormones they feed to cows, but for non-lactose-intolerant non-vegans, I see nothing wrong with drinking moderate amounts of cow's milk.

Meg
12-09-2007, 03:36 PM
I stay on the dairy side because I'm hypothyroid and my doctor has advised me to avoid soy products because they can decrease thyroid production. Most of my dairy is cottage cheese and yogurt rather than milk.

DH is lactose intolerant and I use some soy products for him, mostly the cheeses and sour cream. There also are a variety of LactAid products that he enjoys, especially their chocolate ice cream. :T


gailr42
12-09-2007, 04:54 PM
I hadn't thought about the vegan issue.

nelie
12-09-2007, 05:15 PM
Reasons to not use dairy...

Hormones, higher carb content and desire not to ingest dairy

There are other options as well. One of my favorites is almond milk which is about half the calories.

cbmare
12-09-2007, 05:26 PM
I've never heard of soy sour cream. I don't think I've ever seen it either. Where do you get it?

Almond milk? Where do I find that? Does it taste like almonds?

What about rice milk? I've never had it but I may look into it now.

I used to drink Eighth Continent Chocolate Soy. I stopped when all the bad news came out about soy. However, I think I may go back to Eighth Continent for my cereal. I don't like the vanilla but will use it for my cereal and 1 container will last about a week here. I can't stand Silk soy milk.

CountingDown
12-09-2007, 05:44 PM
My Christmas present (thank you DH) - a Soyabella milk maker. It makes soy, almond, rice, cashew, etc milk at home. It also grinds grains, beans, and nuts to make meal; and even has a tofu press to make homemade tofu. Now all I have to do is find recipes that use the okara (leftover soy pulp).

Why did I ask for this for Christmas? As a vegetarian, I try to use as few animal products as possible. Also, I am tired of milk spoiling in my refrigerator. Small quantities are quite expensive, and I'm not a fan of frozen and thawed cow's milk. Also, I like the idea of trying different milks. I think it will be fun to try different flavorings and recipes.
That reminds me - I need to add agave nectar and tofu coagulent to my shopping list this week :)

zenor77
12-09-2007, 05:51 PM
Reasons to not use dairy...

Hormones, higher carb content and desire not to ingest dairy



What Nelie said. I do consume some milk products, but I make sure they are organic or at the very least rBGH free. I don't want hormones or antibiotics in my food if I can help it.

Of course, I was allergic to milk as a child (an allergy I out grew), so I never got a taste for milk.

Meg
12-09-2007, 06:12 PM
Mare, the soy sour cream that I buy is called Sour Supreme and is made by Tofutti (www.tofutti.com) (they make a lot of dairy substitutes). It's in the health food section of my grocery store.

Scenestealer
12-09-2007, 08:28 PM
My almond milk (Pacific brand) has about the same amount of calories as my skim milk. Slightly more fat though. Is there a brand that has half the cals? I'm a calorie counter, so that would be nice :)

I use almond milk with my (low-sugar) breakfast cereal to make it really sweet and flavorful. It's delicious and almost like a dessert because it tastes so sweet, but a bowl of cereal and milk is still under 300 cals.

Spinymouse
12-09-2007, 08:39 PM
Reasons for not using cow dairy:
the hormones used in cow farms
inadvertently supporting the veal industry (that is where a lot of the males go)
Digestibility problems

Reasons for it:
Calcium
Taste

I use goat milk and goat cheese. As far as I know, the male goats don't have an equivalent fate, but maybe my ignorance is bliss? I prefer to think that they are used as weed abatement. At least at this point there is not such a huge demand so I can't imagine that the feedlot horrors apply to them.
Also it is generally more digestible for humans than cow dairy. And it is a good calcium source.

gailr42
12-09-2007, 09:28 PM
Am I understanding correctly that you can get cow's milk without the hormones and antibiotics by buying organic?

Hmmm....hormones and veal - I am thinking Omnivore's Dilemma again.

The only thing that I really "need" milk for is my coffee. I am reluctant to use the non dairy stuff because then you run into all that HFCS stuff.

We keep talking about getting a goat. It would be more of a pet than anything useful.:lol: Maybe we could get a milk goat.

nelie
12-09-2007, 09:28 PM
Laura,

I use Blue Diamond, I believe it is 40 calories for 8 ozs? The soy milks I buy tend to be 80-90 calories for 8 ozs so that is about half.

Gail,

I've never seen HCFS in non dairy milk. Unsure what brand you are buying?

Spinymouse
12-09-2007, 09:31 PM
We keep talking about getting a goat. It would be more of a pet than anything useful.:lol: Maybe we could get a milk goat.

Awwww. A milk goat. I would love to live in a place where I could have a milk goat.

CountingDown
12-09-2007, 09:46 PM
Laura,
I've never seen HCFS in non dairy milk. Unsure what brand you are buying?

I think she is referring to the coffee creamers that are non-dairy. Coffee-mate, International Delight, etc.

gailr42
12-10-2007, 10:51 AM
That's right, I'm talking about non-dairy coffee "lighteners".

carolr3639
12-10-2007, 11:18 AM
I limit calcium because of high blood calcium problems. Westsoy Organic has only 4% calcium and also 4gm fiber which I can really use. Most of the soy milks are fortified and this is the only one I've found that isn't.

ANOther
12-10-2007, 04:39 PM
This being the Xmas season, I enjoy my nog, and I got a quart of Silk soy nog (only 90 cal per 1/2 cup; imitation dairy-based nog is 120 cal and I shudder to even think what the calorie count is for REAL eggnog). Otherwise I'm not that crazy about soymilk

Scenestealer
12-10-2007, 04:46 PM
Nelie, thanks for the info about Blue Diamond! The Pacific foods brand almond milk is 90 cals/cup, so Blue Diamond is definitely half that, which would be great.

Spinymouse
12-10-2007, 04:55 PM
This is OT since it does not compare dairy to soy milk, however, I thought it was interesting.

August 1, 2007

New studies on goat milk show it is more beneficial to health than cow milk.

Research carried out at the Department of Physiology of the University of Granada (Universidad de Granada http://www.ugr.es) has revealed that goat milk has more beneficial properties to health than cow milk. Among these properties it helps to prevent ferropenic anaemia (iron deficiency) and bone demineralisation (softening of the bones).
This project, conducted by Doctor Javier Díaz Castro and directed by professors Margarita Sánchez Campos, Inmaculada López Aliaga and José Muñoz Alférez, focuses on the comparison between the nutritional properties of goat milk and cow milk, both with normal calcium content and calcium enriched, against the bioavailability of iron, calcium, phosphorus and magnesium. To carry out this study, the metabolic balance technique has been used both in rats with experimentally induced nutritional ferropenic anaemia and in a control group of rats.
In order to know how the nutritive utilisation of these minerals may affect their metabolic distribution and destination, the UGR researcher has determined the concentration of these minerals in the different organs involved in their homeostatic regulation and different haematological parameters in relation to the metabolism of the minerals.
Results obtained in the study reveal that ferropenic anaemia and bone demineralisation caused by this pathology have a better recovery with goat milk. Due to the higher bioavailability of iron, calcium, phosphorus and magnesium, the restoration of altered haematological parameters and the better levels of parathyroid hormone (PTH), a hormone that regulates the calcium balance in the organism was found in the rats that consumed this food.
Javier Díaz Castro points out that the inclusion of goat milk with normal or double calcium content in the diet “favours digestive and metabolic utilisation of iron, calcium and phosphorus and their deposit in target organs - parts of the organism to which these minerals are preferably sent - involved in their homeostatic regulation”.
According to this researcher, all these conclusions reveal that regular consumption of goats’ milk – a natural food with highly beneficial nutritional characteristics - “has positive effects on mineral metabolism, recovery from ferropenic anaemia and bone mineralisation in rats. In addition, and unlike observations in cow milk, its calcium enrichment does not interfere in the bioavailability of the minerals studied”.
Although there is no doubt that these findings may be a base for further in depth study of the multiple health benefits of goat milk, the UGR (http://www.ugr.es) researcher warns that “studies in humans are still required in order to confirm the findings obtained in rats and to promote goats’ milk consumption both in the general population and in the population affected by nutritional ferropenic anaemia and pathologies related to bone demineralisation”. Part of the results of this research has been published in the prestigious scientific journals International Dairy Journal and Journal Dairy Science.
Reference:
Dr Javier Díaz Castro. Department of Physiology http://www.ugr.es/~fisiougr/, University of Granada http://www.ugr.es.

ennay
12-10-2007, 05:05 PM
For my coffee I prefer soymilk just because I think it gives a taste/richness that is closer to cream than skim milk does. Also even though it tastes sweeter (good in coffee!) it has less sugars because the sweeteners in soymilk (generally rice syrup ) are sweeter tasting than lactose is.

I use vitasoy light vanilla which is technically a soy drink, not a soy milk (lower in calories and fat)

For everything else I use organic milk, but I dont sit down and just drink a glass of milk, milk is a big trigger food for me.

I like almond milk too, but it tends to be a bit grainier in my coffee than the soy. Hazelnut milk is yummy, but again tends to the grainy side sometimes.

Spinymouse
12-10-2007, 05:15 PM
For my coffee I prefer soymilk just because I think it gives a taste/richness that is closer to cream than skim milk does. Also even though it tastes sweeter (good in coffee!) it has less sugars because the sweeteners in soymilk (generally rice syrup ) are sweeter tasting than lactose is.



When I first tried soy milk (just drinking a glass of it) I couldn't believe how sweet it was! That explains it. I don't like my milk to taste that sweet. (But I don't drink coffee.) I have used soy milk as an ingredient in other things (sauces) in which it worked ok. I wonder why so much sweetener is added to it?

carolr3639
12-10-2007, 05:37 PM
I don't think regular soy milk like Westsoy Organic is sweet. If it's just soy it shouldn't be sweet. The carb count is very low.

Spinymouse
12-10-2007, 05:44 PM
Ah - thanks, Carol. I googled it and noticed that Westsoy makes unsweetened organic soy milk. (unflavored, unsweetened.)

oops - editing post. Forget the part I wrote at first about almond milk.

gailr42
12-10-2007, 09:56 PM
Spinymouse, you are trying to make me get a goat :lol:.

Ennay, for me, other foods like cookies make me want to drink milk. Drinking milk doesn't make me want cookies. Is milk a trigger to drink more milk, more dairy or what?

Zepher
12-12-2007, 03:04 AM
I read somewhere that high soy consumption has been associated with dementia, did anyone come across this? Would be unfortunate, I really like tofu...

WaterRat
12-12-2007, 06:33 PM
Gail42 - just be sure you're ready for the commitment of a milk goat! :) We had dairy goats for a number of years. First, remember like all mammals, they need to give birth to produce milk. If you want the milk, instead of letting the absolutely adorable baby goats nurse, you must bottle feed the babies. (They do fine on calf replacer - like baby formula). If you let them nurse, not only will they take all the milk, they'll be harder to handle. If you bottle feed, they think you're the mama and will imprint on you - which has definite benefits and drawbacks. :) Second, goats like cows need to be milked 2x a day, about 12 hours apart. Don't know where you live, but it was hard for us to find someone willing to do the milking when we wanted to be away from home. And then there's vacations - know anyone who'll goat sit? And of course, to have babies, female goats need to be bred (and you probably don't want to have a stinky "intact" male in residence) so there's breeding fees, and transporting your goat to the male (the usual arrangement). And what to do with those cute little babies when they grow up? Just things to consider.... I loved my goats to pieces, but after several years, we decided that we needed more freedom than keeping dairy animals allowed.

gailr42
12-12-2007, 06:50 PM
We already have chickens, which we have to get someone to look after if we go anywhere. We know what we would have to do with a dairy goat, and it is probably more than we want to undertake, as romantic as it may sound. I sure do like goats, though.

I can just see myself selling my artisan goat cheese at the local farmers market.....while wearing my hand knit angora goat sweater....wait a minute, what farmer's market? Oops, I was once diagnosed as being allergic to goat hair...forget the sweater.