100 lb. Club - OT: What would you do
08-20-2007, 10:56 AM
Im having a problem and thought I would ask my 3fc friends what they would do. I purchased a truck from my grandmother for $5000 after 2 weeks I decided I didnt want it and was goign to take it back to her. My father said he wanted it. After talking to my grandmother she said that was fine, so I gave my dad the truck and he was supposed to handle the $300 a month payment to her. There is a signed agreement between my grandmother and I that states $500 down and 15 payments of $300. I had already paid the $500 down when I originally got the truck but my dad started making the monthly payments. He knew if he fell behind in the payments I would take the truck away (My father is notorius for not paying on time) He paid 2 payments with 1 of them being on time. I just found out over the weekend he is 2 months behind, I thought he just owed for last month, so I called him and told him I needed the truck back. Now he has been having a lot of problems with the truck shutting off and not wanting to stay running. He complained constantly about it and tried to sell the truck at one time. He had an offer last month for $5500 and he didnt take it b/c he said the truck was worth more than that, (its a 98 with 47k original miles) I told him not if it wont stay running.
So anyways, I was supposed to get the truck yesterday and after a ton of excuses he is bringing it today. Now I called the person who was interested in buying it a month ago (I told my father numerous times to call them back and sell the truck but he didnt do it) I am dropping it off at their mechanic tomorrow. My father asked me if he would be getting any money out of it. I told him legally when a truck is repoed and resold the previous owner who defaulted on the payments does not get their money back. I asked him how much did he think he should get and he said he needed at least $400 even though he paid $600 in payments. (He has had the truck since April and during the 2 weeks I had it he was using my car) I talked to several people and they said he should not get any money back. I plan on at least getting my $500 down payment back b/c I only had the truck for 2 weeks and if I had taken it back to my grandmother like I originally wanted to, I would have that money back.
So what would you do??? If it wasnt a family member I wouldnt even be thinking about it. I feel like he had the opportunity to sell it and he would have his money back plus more but he didnt do it and since Im taking it back from him, whatever I sell it for should be mine (I do plan on splitting the profit with my grandmother for all the trouble)
08-20-2007, 11:00 AM
I'm with you. Your father is entitled to nothing. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know what they would say in a court of law, but I would guess that, if anything, he would owe you money. It would be great if you could get it sold and recoup the money that you invested in it. More savings for that surgery! And just a suggestion - don't ever trust your father to act responsibly with money again. It's not good for either of you.
08-20-2007, 11:30 AM
I keep trying to learn that lesson. It has been like this my entire life and he claims he cant get a job because of this depression he has. Supposedly a window frame hit him on the front of the head when he was a child and thats whats wrong with him. I told him only he can secure his future and he needed to stop putting all his eggs in one basket.
I know legally I dont owe him anything but emotionally Im torn and Im tired of his guilt trips and excuses. There was one time he told me he didnt have any power and I was living in bricks. I told him I go to work everyday. I am the complete opposite of my father when it comes to money.
08-20-2007, 11:46 AM
Legally, maybe you don't owe him anything and maybe he shouldn't get anything...but...as long as you get your money back - if you could afford to pay him back too - why not? I mean in the spirit of being kind. I would never suggest you short yourself, or your grandmother. But if the 2 of you break even, why not share? Imagine the impact of paying him what you can verses keeping it for yourself.
Just my 2 cents.
08-20-2007, 12:15 PM
It's really hard with family members, isn't it? I've got more than a few who are like your dad. Not only are they not successful, but they've got their hands out all the time and it's like trying to fill a cup with no bottom. Never happens. I love my family and have given them thousands through the years... but I'm slowly learning my lesson.
Cara, I don't know the laws in your state, but I'm reasonably confident you don't legally owe your dad anything. However, I don't think you're really concerned about that. It's the emotional aspect of it. FWIW, my advice is to give him the $400 and when doing so, make it clear you will not enter into any further financial dealings with him in the future. And then be sure you don't! Remember -- you can never fill that cup.
08-20-2007, 12:16 PM
I'm sorry to say this...but you both (you and your dad) acted irresponsible. You, by getting into this purchase and then after only 2 weeks deciding you didn't want the vehicle anymore..you can't do that. You made the decision to buy the vehicle..if you had any doubts, you shouldn't off bought it from your grandmother. Your dad is wrong for buying this vehicle from you without thinking about the finacial responsibilty first and you should of known better than to sell it to your dad knowing he is "notorious" for not making timely payments. In my opinion, both of you are SOL...and grandmother needs to step in and take control. For either you or your dad to think that you are entitled to any money back from this deal..is wrong!
The only person in this story who has a leg to stand on is your grandmother. She needs to repo the car from "both" of you, and is entitled, by law, to keep all money she has received thus far...(even Judge Judy would agree with me on this one) and sell it to someone who has the "cash up front"...
sorry if I am coming across a little blunt...
08-20-2007, 12:42 PM
I purchased the truck with the agreement of a 2 week trail in case anything went wrong. When it started shutting off on me I called her about returning it. We both wanted to help my father out since he didnt have a vehicle and just lost his gf and son. He was really trying to make his life better but they came back and down the tubes again it went.
I feel like my grandmother should get any extra money made off the truck b/c of all the stress involved. LIke I said I know all my legal rights and technically I should get to keep any money over what I owe my grandmother but I also am torn b/c of my father. If my dad did not make the payments the agreement was I would so I am out $600 for the last 2 months b/c he didnt pay. Now I have $1100 tied up in the truck and since I am trying to sell it all I have to give her is $3900. I know any other time a car is repoed you dont get your money back if its resold, plus my father currently owes me $610 ($500 for the truck down payment which will be zeroed out when I sell the truck and $110 he borrowed) so I'm thinking about taking that out of his "share". But yes he is a bottomless pit when it comes to borrowing money.
08-20-2007, 12:45 PM
Unfortunately, I do have to agree with Fluffy. The decision to sell is Grandma's and the decision to reimburse you or Dad is also Grandma's. Legally, she doesn't have to reimburse anything to you or Dad as both of you defaulted on the agreement.
08-20-2007, 01:24 PM
The reason your father keeps behaving as he does is, it keeps working for him. He is manipulating both you and your grandmother like the expert self-pitying, whining manipulator he obviously is. I have seen a lot of people who successfully avoided growing up their whole lives, because other people could be conned into enabling them. You are not doing him any favors by "co"-ing his immaturity. Stop doing it. You allowed him to take the truck because it suited YOU. You were getting a payoff too -- you could be out from under this truck. Of course you looked for a way out: you learned from the best. It is time to stop playing his games, which will inevitably lead to equally irresponsible games of your own. That's how it always works. "If I demand that he be responsible, then I can't make excuses either." Make this a turning point for all of you. Refuse to accept anything less than adult behavior from all involved. You know exactly what that is, you don't need advice from us. Time to quit rescuing your father from the consequences of his decisions. All decisions have consequences. Don't pay his consequences for him. Not your fault, not your problem, DON'T PLAY.
08-20-2007, 02:33 PM
I havent defaulted, I had to cover his defaulted payments. I had the opportunity to take it back during the 1st 2 weeks but I didnt do that b/c grandma and I both felt he did need a vehicle. It is my fault for not just returning it to her, I accept full responsibility for that. The truck was just dropped off at my house and I will start taking steps to sell it when I get home. I really need to start thinking about things instead of agreeing and regretting them later.
08-20-2007, 02:39 PM
well....im neither a lawyer...however....i am a finance manager at a dealership....and we do handle some reposessions.....and you are not entitled to pay your father anything.....nor your grandmother....technically.....but being that it is family i understand the difficulty you are going through!!! If i were you....i would put what i got back from the truck in savings....your father...and grandmother.....are eventually going to need somthing one day....and knowing that you have money in a saving account collectin intrest...will assure you that you will be covered...incase of an emergency....but thats just me!! And only you can read your heart!!!:hug:
08-20-2007, 02:51 PM
I'm glad he agreed and brought the truck back. I would sell it for as much as possible. Pay your grandmother anything left owed on the original $5000.00 and then keep the rest for yourself. Your dad defaulted on the agreement with you and your grandmother. You don't owe him a dime. I would sweetly offer to share any profit from the truck with your grandmother, which she will probably refuse.
Learn from this lesson. Never do financial business of any kind with family. It will bite you in the butt. BTW, I learned this lesson the hard way. My DH signed for a new truck for my oldest SD. A yr. later she had never made a single payment (she did buy the tags eventually). We had to repossess the truck from her and I got stuck with it as my vehicle until it was no longer upside down on the lien and I was able to trade it for the vehicle that I wanted.
08-20-2007, 03:14 PM
It's time to stop enabling dad. You've had years of lessons on why you need to stop, by his continued irresponsibility and manipulation. If you continue to enable him, you are responsible for the consequences that brings to you. I don't mean to sound harsh, but you are playing a part in this.
08-20-2007, 04:31 PM
lilly, I did offer on Saturday to split the profit made with her, I just hate to think Daddy will come after her for money if I dont give him any.
Everyone I have asked all said the same as yall, I dont owe him anything. My 5yo brother needs his shots and my dad said he needed money for that (claims he needs $400) so I think when I sell the truck Im going to take him to get his shots. I dont think he should suffer for my dad's irresponsibility.
08-20-2007, 05:16 PM
Immunizations are free at the health department.
For the sake of family cohesiveness and harmony I would give him what he "thinks" you should...and then after that I would become adept at saying NO. Shame on him for putting himself in this situation, but, (sorry if this is harsh), shame on you for getting yourself in it, too. You said he's always been this way. You knew better.
08-20-2007, 06:26 PM
cara, as long as there is your bro to use as an effective chip, he's got you where he wants you. Yes, your bro may suffer the consequences of your dad's irresponsibility if you don't step in, but at the same time, you will be stuck in an endless loop of rescuing dad/bro if you continue. If you're ok with that, then make up your mind to allowing yourself to being used and manipulated for the sake of your brother. Do it with your eyes open, though. You're not a victim.
08-20-2007, 07:59 PM
My final two cents. It's been a very interesting discussion, though. I understand why you did what you did because I have done some enabling of my own. In fact, I think my tendency to enable was one of the indirect causes for my weight issues. If I had realized how important it was to take care of myself rather than always trying to rescue others, I don't think I would have allowed my weight to go so high.
The bottom line is - You are not responsible for your father. You are not responsible for your brother. You are not responsible for the world's AIDS patients, the homeless, or global warming, either. (I'm not saying that you shouldn't support those causes - just pointing out that if you decided not to spend any money on groceries until you had given enough to fix those problems, you would lose weight way quicker than you had planned.) BattleAxe was right - your brother will always be used as a pawn if you allow that strategy to be effective. It's time to make a decision. Do you want to be a part of the problem? If so, write the check to your father. If you are tired of watching your father and brother suffer, realize that the word "no" is the most powerful one you can use for them. When your father wants to borrow money, the answer is "no." When he wants to enter into a financial arrangement which would be detrimental to you and your family, the answer is "no." He may continue his downward spiral, but you will no longer be contributing to it. Or - he may surprise you and grow up when he no longer has you saving him from that fate.
It's tough, though. Good luck.
I know it is hard but if your dad had originally sold it would he have given you your 500 back? probably not. i would think about that, especially when you told him that if he didnt make the payments then you would take it back. he didnt even think of you or your grandmother when he wasnt making the payments. i think all the trouble that you have had to go through to get the car back and then sell it, is worth the money that he wants. you should tell him that his 400 is for your time and trouble
08-21-2007, 12:00 PM
He was buying the truck for $5000 (Same as I was) so if he sold it and had to pay it off he would have to pay me the amount owed on the truck which for him was $4400 and I would have to pay my grandmother what I owed her $3900 so yes I would have gotten my initial $500 back.
I spoke to my grandmother about it last night and she said he is not getting any money back. She also said she doesnt understand why he thinks everything should be given free to him and for me to sell the truck and keep any money made over the $3900 I owe her. She even said he could take my brother to the health dept to get shots for free (I did know they were free there but planned on taking him myself if I was able)
Right now the truck is sitting at a mechanic's shop having an inspection. The interested buyer said depending on what the mechanic says she will meet me at home this afternoon to take possession. YAYYYYYYYYYY!!!!! I get out of this deal and have 1/2 the money needed for my surgery, now I just gotta get the weight off in time.
Thanks for the comments and support, ya know everyone just needs to rant once in a while. While Im ranting, I drove the truck this morning and couldnt believe how far downhill it had went since Daddy had it for 4 months!!! The truck was immaculate when he got it now there is a replaced tire from a blowout he had, there are dirt spots on the arm rest, stickers on the interior panels (I did get them off) and 12,000 miles added.
08-21-2007, 12:11 PM
Cara, I realized the reason I'm so indignant over the way your dad is treating the rest of your family is because I have been in much the same position, and have only seen how I was being used, in retrospect. Right now I have a "friend" who is taking very skillful advantage of me. This thread has jolted me awake, and now I need to go take care of my OWN enabling issues [hangs head]! Good luck, and remember that refusing to pay the consequences for somebody else's immature decisions does NOT mean you are hard-hearted. Not hard-hearted. Not hard-hearted. Please repeat this back to me as needed. :^:
08-21-2007, 02:32 PM
LOL< Not HARD HEARTED, I know Im not hard hearted. Anytime I have extra I always offer to them first. I get alot of things given to me so I always save out clothes or things I know they can use. I do want to point out though that I dont just do this for my dad and his lil family, I do it for everyone (Friends, family, strangers)