General chatter - I'm so sad right now.... :(

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07-01-2007, 10:07 PM
Alright, so my BF bought me my engagement ring today and so I thought it would be a good day to talk to my dad and tell him we were talking about getting married. My BF is a little slow learning-wise but is a great guy and I love him so much. We've been on and off for 4 years...but mostly together during that time. We thought it was about time. Doug, my BF, insists on talking to my dad and asking for his blessing...I can't talk him out of it.

My dad said he will not give his blessing and basically if he can stop it...he will. All because my BF doesn't make a ton of money and is a little slow and doesn't go to church regularly. I'm so distressed because I know this is the man I want to be with the rest of my life and I'm so scared he's going to get scared off when he talks to my dad. I don't know what to do. :?: I'm so sad that I can't eat and don't want to eat.

My heart feels like it's being tugged continuously out of my chest. Any advice...or encouraging words? I need them. :(

07-01-2007, 10:11 PM
Wow thats a sticky situation...

If I were you, I would try to talk to your dad, and get him to agree with everything.

07-01-2007, 10:14 PM
Wow thats a sticky situation...

If I were you, I would try to talk to your dad, and get him to agree with everything.

I already tried this....when a dad has decided...they've decided. ..................

I'm going to go burry my head in my pillow and go to sleep so I dont' have to think about it...:( Maybe there will be some encouraging, helpful words here in the morning.

*big tearful sigh*

07-01-2007, 10:18 PM
Can your boyfriends parent's maybe talk to your dad? Do you still live with your parents? That would definitely complicate it. Can your mom talk to your dad or is she on his side? And, just curious -- how old are you? I think that is very respectful of your boyfriend to want to talk to your dad -- I'm impressed -- good luck :hug:

07-01-2007, 10:37 PM
A sad situation to be sure. Maybe your dad is concerned that you won't be able to financially manage....can you????
You might want to talk to your BF and explain that your dad is dead set against this engagement, then, together you need to do some role playing about what your dad might say, and how he should respond. That way at least your BF will be prepared for possible outcomes and not met with too many surprises. will he handle it if dad says ".......". If BF can't convince dad then what will you do and how will you handle it. Maybe come up with a sensible leave taking senario, as in "I understand your concerns Mr. ....; and I hope that in time we can talk about this again." or what ever you choose to say. That way you won't have caused anymore damage by leaving in anger, and after is important to both of you, therefore important to avoid an all out 3rd world war.

To avoid too big of a confrontation....maybe you could arrange to not be at dad's house when he goes to talk with him....that way you would prevent a flair up of tempers, tears, and tantrums, and you could more clearly pick up the peices and move on.

Have you talked about how you will live and what kind of finances are necessary to keep yourselves solvent. Don't know how old you two are, so don't know how much life experience you have had dealing with living on your own. Good luck!!

07-02-2007, 01:06 AM
IMPO, you're a grown up. Love who you want. Your dad can get over it, or he can not get over it - that's his choice and you need to separate that from your decisions in life.

07-02-2007, 02:46 AM
Congrats on your engagement! :)

As for your Dad's concerns, there are two possibilities. One is that he is concerned because he is seeing the big picture with years of wisdom and experience, and is worried about his daughter for genuine reasons. The other is that he is being totally unreasonable and irrational, maybe because he doesn't want to lose his baby girl. It sounds like you feel it is the second option, but you may want to talk to him calmly and rationally and get him to explain what his concerns are. If he's childish about it, then you know that it's HIS problem, not yours...but if he is calm and explains his viewpoint, I'd recommend that you listen and think about it (even if you don't like it).

Just saying this because I'm remembering all the times my Dad ticked me off, and it turns out that he was right, even if he wasn't approaching things in the best manner. :lol: Besides, if you listen to your Dad's concerns and come up with rational ways to assuage his fears, then you have a good chance of convincing him that your engagement deserves his blessing. :)

It's sweet that your fiance wants to talk to your Dad. I think moxiesd's suggestion about roleplaying is dead on the money!

I'm sorry you're encountering so much stress during a time when you should be celebrating. I hope it all blows over soon. :)

07-02-2007, 08:41 AM
Thanks for all the responses guys...

to answer a few questions...I am 22 and Doug is soon to be 26 this October. He and my brother are Best friends and their birthdays are actually on the same day, October 21st. Convenient, huh?

Yes, he's worried about the financial are not good in Michigan right now...I hate it. But the fact that he's had the same job for 4 years I think it good..he's stable. I don't think two people have to be well off to get married....I know you have to at LEAST be able to make ends meet. But we're just talking about engagement here. Some people stay engaged for a couple of years and so on. I'm not saying that's what we're talking about, but it's a possibility because we both know there are some things we want to learn together still.

I appreciate my father's concern, I really do...I know he loves me and I know I'm daddy's girl. He's pretty much set on the idea that I should not and could not marry him. I know it's my decision in the long-run, but lets be honest.....all girls want their daddy's blessing. I think the role-playing is a good idea and I will be talking to Doug about it. He could really use some help to know what he's against. :o I just didn't think my dad would be like this considering he and my mom were both making piddly wages at Kmart 30 years ago when they got married...then again cost of living was not so high.

I do live with my parents...I was living on my own, but hated it. My family has always been around...whether extended or close and I couldn't stand being by myself all the boring too much.

Much of my dad's argument was that he's slow and he's never going to be able to be the leader of the household and if he is, then it's going to be hard for me to follow him and stuff like that. He's also upset because Doug is still on probation (off in October) for some things that happened in highschool. He was almost off a couple times, but then got in trouble again. Getting in trouble can mean a speeding ticket or have to be really good to stay off of probation. His father's story as to why is on probation is different than Doug' my dad says that he doesn't even know Doug and can't say "yeah marry him" when he may have a juvenile record with something bad on it.

*sigh*..there is a little more info. I had such a bad night thinking about everything..:(

07-02-2007, 09:46 AM
So it's just a dad worried about his little girl!! You sound so level headed and prepared. Our parent's are still in the mind set that the man should run the house!! It's cute, but annoying. I have a friend who had a great job when they had kids, so her husband stayed home and took care of them while she worked -- drives everyone crazy!!

You have to do what works for you and your "future husband:D". Just think of this as practice for marriage -- you and your boyfriend practicing a united front, approaching every problem as a team. And, an engagement is just more of a committment than dating -- a step towards marriage. Remind your dad that your not moving out, running away, etc. You will still be living at home, having the same job etc.

I'm sure the probabation is probably a big part of it -- your boyfriend really needs to clear that up and stay out of trouble (parking tickets and all!!) to continue to prove to your dad that he is "worthy" of daddy's little girl!!!

So many reasons why dad is thinking this -- I agree with the role playing -- try to come up with every reason you dad may have and a logical explanation to help relax him and then your conversation should go much easier and not become an arguement with you defending yourself. Maybe have the conversation at a restaurant or somewhere else on neutral ground!!

Good luck and congrats!!!

07-02-2007, 10:43 AM
You and your fiance are both of age, You mjght remind your father of this. I am concerned that your father says that he is slow? What does he mean by that? Does he mean he is ******ed? Does your dad have facts saying he is slow or is that just his idea?

07-02-2007, 12:09 PM
You and your fiance are both of age, You mjght remind your father of this. I am concerned that your father says that he is slow? What does he mean by that? Does he mean he is ******ed? Does your dad have facts saying he is slow or is that just his idea?

Doug has a learning disability..just takes him a little longer than other people to get the grasp of things. He learns best visually.

Let me tell you it is a lot harder to get your dad's blessing when everyone in their church leadership is against it and tells your father it's not a good idea. *sigh*

I'm so sick of hearing what other people have to say...I know I have to deal with it, but there comes a point when people need to realize it's not their is my own and we need to make our own decisions...what is best for us.

Everyone starts out differently. I go to my parents church and have been asked to meet with the pastor because he can't "support me going into a bad marriage".

ugh...*sniffle* I can't wait to see Doug tonight and talk about all this! I feel like I'm carrying a 50 lb bag of potatoes on my back and I want to fall down and cry! :(

07-02-2007, 01:45 PM
As a former probation officer I can tell you that your statement "Getting in trouble can mean a speeding ticket or have to be really good to stay off of probation," is completely false. A speeding ticket will NOT revoke or extend your probation. In many areas of the country, the new offense has to be WORSE than the original offense to revoke or extend probation.

Court systems in most areas are extremely overcrowded, so they don't waste their time extending probations on petty offenses. I often couldn't even get Judges to keep probation violators on probation for their entire original sentence. Basically if you didn't have a violent offense while on probation, you would get early release from probation.

Michigan might be a little different than Illinois, but I wouldn't expect by enough that a "parking ticket" would extend a person's probation - especially a juvenile offense. They're generally treated more leniently than adult offenses, as judges want to keep them seperate. Juvenile offenses aren't a matter of public record, adult offenses are. So rather than extend a juvenile's record, they would close the juvenile file and charge him with a new offense.

No jurisdiction is going to keep a 26 year old man on JUVENILE probation. So I would strongly suspect that Doug is lying to you. Go to the courthouse and ask for his criminal record. If there are ANY violent offenses, do not accept his proposal - the risk is too great.

07-02-2007, 01:56 PM
Go to the courthouse and ask for his criminal record. If there are ANY violent offenses, do not accept his proposal - the risk is too great.

I think this is very sound advice.

07-02-2007, 02:18 PM
Go to the courthouse and ask for his criminal record. If there are ANY violent offenses, do not accept his proposal - the risk is too great.

I didn't realize we could do this! Hmmm! This is very sound advice.

Is there a way to check online for it?

07-02-2007, 02:58 PM
You can do criminal background checks online for a few bucks, usually under $40, I would suggest doing something just to keep your future in check.

I can not say anything negative about his learning disability. I too am married to a man who is Extremely intelligent, however struggled through high school and barely finished. But that in no way means he is stupid, just just learns differently. He is a reader and has gained the respect of most everyone in our community. I am a teacher and can say that I am fairly "let down" by the way the schools treated him (but that was back in the 60's & 70's).

Good luck!

07-02-2007, 03:56 PM
Wisconsin has a website you can pull up anyone's offenses on (for free) -- I would call the court in your state and see if they have one. We aren't trying to say he's a bad guy, just trying to make sure you are taking care of yourself -- I've learned that when dad and everyone around me are concerned -- there's a good reason. You should be given all the information available to make the best decision for you. Whatever you find out, may even help your dad feel better. My husband had a silly offense with probation from high school and it was long gone by the time he was over 20.

07-02-2007, 04:29 PM
I agree with kaplods - I've never heard of a 26-year-old on juvenile probation. Usually, your juvenile record is expunged, unless you commit offense after offense after offense to be in eternal probation. ;) "If there are ANY violent offenses, do not accept his proposal - the risk is too great." - good point there, too. :)

ALSO - you're both grown. Your dad can't dictate who you can and cannot love. Yes, I know it's tough for your parents to disapprove of who you're going to marry, but I can sort of relate...
See, I'm in a relationship with another woman. My parents like her as a person, but they're both VERY homophobic/anti-gay and they think it's just a phase. I've dated guys in the past. There's a possibility I'll date guys in the future. My parents find the both ways bit to be ESPECIALLY incomprehensible and figure it must be a choice. We've been together 2 years. There hasn't been any commitment ceremony talk yet, but that doesn't mean there won't be... and I know my parents won't be there. :( it's kind of heartbreaking, but I try not to think about it...

How do your friends feel about Doug? If you're with him, love him, and want to spend the rest of your life with him, then he must be very good to you, allowing you to share that special and rare connection with him. While saying that, "probation!" "doesn't make a lot of money!" and "slow learner!" are red flags of concern in most parents' (and superficial people's) minds. They have your best interests at heart - really - in this case, they're just trying to look out for you. Parents never let go of the supposed ability to make their children's decisions ;)

07-02-2007, 04:58 PM
He doesn't have to be a bad guy to be the wrong guy for you. I'm just saying that you need to know everything about a person you're considering making a life with. This means taking nothing he says at face value without confirmation from his actions (towards you and other people) and from his friends, family, and any source of information you can find.

I did a background check on my husband (and other men I dated). And when I dated my husband, I took every "negative" thing his family and friends said about him to heart, even if I didn't see it myself. I'm really glad I did. Nothing they said convinced me he wasn't right for me, but as we've been married, it's been funny how often when he does something I find annoying, I have to say to myself "it's not like I wasn't warned."

07-02-2007, 05:06 PM
I should mention that when we were dating, my mother HATED David, (now husband) with an absolute passion. It's funny, because now she totally denies it (unless he irritates her, and then he's on her poop list again).

I'm definitely not trying to make your decision for you. You're fully capable of that, though your decision needs to be based on ALL of the information you can gather, and it doesn't seem you've done that yet.

There are a lot of online background checks you can do, like Net Detectives for example. And alot of it is free. However, the advantage of going to the courthouse, is that in most jurisdictions you can actually get the court files to read. Sometimes this can be done the same day you go in, sometimes you have to have an appointment (you can definitely call your local courthouse and ask how to go about getting a background check on someone, or actually seeing a court file). The advantage of looking at the court file is that you often get police reports, witness statements, and transcripts of what key people (him, witnesses, victims, attorneys, the judge...) have all said, and what the court has ordered as part of his sentence(s).

07-02-2007, 06:54 PM
......a man should run the house!

That's right! ;)

My cousin was "slow" ~ raised a family ~ held a steady job at the casino ~ BUT....needed MUCH help from my Aunt and Uncle over the years. He passed away too young, at 40 from cancer a few years ago...but what a sweet man he was.

He never had any trouble with the law though.

As far as meeting with your pastor goes, I am not sure why you wouldn't want to seek his is most natural in most churches to seek God's blessing on marraige.

Seems like there are a lot of adults against this....makes me a little concerned also.

Good luck to you ~ Prayers

07-02-2007, 08:32 PM
okay, a lot of posts to reply to so forgive me if I miss something...

I have been putting off going to the police station to get his records...which I'm assuming I can do instead of the court house? I just didn't want to do this behind his back. here is a long story...

When Doug was a baby his dad left and when he was 4 his mom dropped him off at a FireStation...he's been in the Foster system until middle school when his "dad" or "legal guardian" took him on as a foster child. He's always had a learning disability (not noticeable if you're just talking with him), and like I said I was told he was in trouble in High School. Doug has been told by his "legal guardian...he never adopted Doug" that he is still on probation...anytime he's supposed to have been off, if he gets a speeding ticket or something similar he gets longer probation. What I THINK is going on is that his dad has been lying to him to keep him in the home. His "dad" takes Doug's paycheck every week and only gives him $20 of it. I think Doug is being naive...he's not stupid. But you're right...I should go and see if there are any records...for my own safety and to see if what Doug says stands true (which I pray with all my heart that it is).

I know there is a lot that doesn't make sense and believe me...I've been very confused but have chosen to believe Doug. I've known Doug since he was 20 and my brother knew him before that and he hasn't been in any trouble while we've known him. SOMETHING is going on. Should I mention that Doug's "dad" is a police officer? A dirty cop at that....he's the biggest lier I've ever known. He's sent my parent's pastor emails about my parents lying about really broke my parent's hearts. a lot of this could be his "dad's" doing.

Tomorrow I will go to the police station to get records....I'll let you guys know...I hope I know the truth.

07-02-2007, 08:38 PM
Good luck. Sounds kind of like "Dad" is causing the trouble (not yours). I bet you are right, but your boyfriend is trying to not cause trouble and who wouldn't believe their dad! I hope you find nothing and you should definitely let him know what you find out -- would he want to go with you? I've never head of being "automatically on probation" just because you are a foster kid.

07-03-2007, 08:07 AM
Good luck. Sounds kind of like "Dad" is causing the trouble (not yours). I bet you are right, but your boyfriend is trying to not cause trouble and who wouldn't believe their dad! I hope you find nothing and you should definitely let him know what you find out -- would he want to go with you? I've never head of being "automatically on probation" just because you are a foster kid.

So many things going on in my head right now...I'm so hurt and confused. I was told that I shouldn't be going behind his back so my brother (Doug's best friend) is talking to him tonight ...having a heart to heart to say "look, if you want to marry my sister, my family needs to know the truth; and if you don't know the truth, then we can find out for you"...basically. I will be relieved when this part is over. I knew I'd have to deal with this at sometime...I just didn't think it would be that soon. It does LOOK like his dad is causing the problem...*crosses fingers* I mean, I hate to deal with a dad like that, but I'd hate even MORESO that my boyfriend had been lying to me. :o

I need to hit the gym and work some of this anxiety out...

07-03-2007, 08:44 AM
At first I thought you were a Buffalo Sabres fan, from the title of the thread.

As a mom, I can tell you I want nothing more for my son or daughter to be happy. If they pick someone that I'm not totally thrilled with, but they are happy, then I'll have to deal with that when the time comes. BUT, you're talking criminal history here and your dad's paternal instinct is kicking in to protect you...not deprive you of what you want. We, as parents, tell our kids NO when we think they're doing something dangerous or just plain stupid (like jumping off the roof or eating worms). Listen to your dad and just play it safe...take your time...don't make any commitments with this guy until you are ABSOLUTELY SURE!! Marriage is tough to get through in perfect situations...add in the elements you're adding in and it'll be a really tough row to hoe. Just be careful and don't get yourself talked into something you're oging to regret!! And need a lawyer to get out of!! :faint:

07-03-2007, 09:49 AM
so I have found that I can do the same search online as I can going to the state police. I went to and it's $10 (which is the same as going to the station to do it) now I'm just getting up the guts to do it. *sigh* There are some things that don't necessarily have to be on the police criminal records....and I may have to go to the courts to get those? Anyone know how that process works? I don't even know where the courthouse is.

I'm so scared to do this. I know it seems I should've done this a long time ago, but truth is, I'm only doing it because my dad has requested it. I love Doug so much and this is killing me inside. It's going to kill him inside if I do this and find out that what he is telling me is true...because I will HAVE to tell him I did this search...I can't keep that from him...especially if all he has been is honest to me.

Supposedly the accusation was this... He was dating a girl in Highschool and they went to the prom together and afterwards they slept with each other...the parents found out and pretty much made her report it to the police as rape. and supposedly he wasn't actually charged...or convicted. I know this doesn't really tell anyone much. You have to remember that sometimes his words don't escape him very well and he doesn't explain things the way someone else would. *sigh*

07-03-2007, 01:40 PM
Alright guys....I feel quite a bit of relief right now.

No criminal record...that doesn't mean that something didn't happen when he was a juvenile...but the point is, as far as I know, he has not lied to me. And also...this means his father has been lying to him for years. What a take advantage of your own son like that. And Doug DOES view him as his father.

This whole thing is a trust issue, and I trust Doug. I'm going to believe what he told me about being in trouble in High School...heck, he COULD have told me he was in trouble with drugs or something. But how many girls would risk their life to someone who came out and said that they were accused of rape? I know that scares people, but I also know that many young men are played with and then accused of something they didn't do. I don't take the matter of rape lightly...I was raped two years ago this Christmas. Doug and I have been together for almost 4 years and has never shown the tendencies of someone who is a rapist...has never shown that kind of aggression with anything.

I understand ya'lls concern, but I love Doug and I won't continue to decieve him and to view him as a liar. Boy....what a bunch of poop...ugh

07-03-2007, 02:43 PM
Hopefully, you will have a long engagement so Doug gets to practice living on his own and fiscal responsibility. Has he ever paid bills? Had a checking account? Savings? He is 26 years old!

07-03-2007, 02:54 PM
Doing a background check on someone you want to date, or have been dating isn't a bad thing. You shouldn't do it only on people you "don't trust." It's human nature to put your best foot forward, and gloss over or avoid talking about things that might scare another person away.

You did good, not only for yourself, but for him. If you got the report I think you got, even adult charges without convictions would have been reported.
It's very possible, given what you say that there never was any actual probation (he would have had to go to court and visit with a probation officer at least once).

I think you have alot of challenges to face with this relationship. That doesn't mean it's impossible, just that it's going to take a lot of work. Counseling would be great for both of you, because you both are going to have to deal with each other's parents, and your boyfriend may need some help in standing up to his father. (I'm adopted myself, so I'm definitely of the opinion if he cosiders the man his father, than that is who he is, and has to be dealt with as). Most communities have low cost mental health counseling available. If you are he are churchgoers, meeting with the pastor(s) would also be helpful.

07-03-2007, 03:40 PM
Hopefully, you will have a long engagement so Doug gets to practice living on his own and fiscal responsibility. Has he ever paid bills? Had a checking account? Savings? He is 26 years old!

Yes he has paid bills...but he does need some help with responsibility when it comes to money. I think this is where my mom would be a great teacher....she's taught me well about recording things and making sure you stay on track. I think she could really help him. :) She's willing to as well.

He has not had a checking account due to his dad taking most of his money from his check. And just an FYI....his dad opened CREDIT CARD accounts in Doug's name without Doug knowing and USED them. What is this called guys? Do you think this is right???

07-03-2007, 03:59 PM
He has not had a checking account due to his dad taking most of his money from his check. And just an FYI....his dad opened CREDIT CARD accounts in Doug's name without Doug knowing and USED them. What is this called guys? Do you think this is right???Well, that is certainly not ethical or right and is illegal. When and how did Doug discover this fraud? If I were Doug I would report that to the credit company and have them do a fraud investigation. Does he have a verifiable disability? There are community advocates who could help in these cases. Best of luck.

07-03-2007, 04:58 PM
I have a relative that did the credit card thing to her son -- not much he could do unfortunately. Your boyfriend needs to get a p.o. box to keep his mail from coming to the house, away from his father who obviously fills out the applications in his name for the credit cards. Do you think he could get some kind of public assistance to get his own apartment? That would probably help a lot -- just don't you move in :dizzy: -- that definitely would drive your dad crazy!!! But, maybe if your family saw him being responsible on his own, that would help a lot.

I don't think what you found out about him should be of a big concern -- I know quite a few people that has happened too -- everyone makes mistakes. That's how we learn.

If your mom is willing to help him with bills, sounds like she's on your side -- talk to her about your dad's concerns and how upset they make you.

Good luck.

07-04-2007, 02:02 AM
There's alot more that can be done about credit card fraud now, than in the past. If he is using the card and signing his son's name, this is identity theft as well as credit card fraud.

There is probably a community services directory in your area that will describe what services are available in the community and what their requirements for service are. If you call any of the services that would be in that directory (for example The United Way, the health department, women's shelters...) they can tell you if there's a hotline number or a printed directory and how to get a copy. He needs to find charities that provide housing assistance and legal assistance.

One thing that seems very strange is that at 26, even if he were moderately mentally challenged, I would expect him to be acting more independently. I have worked with alot of people who are much more than just a little slow (sheltered workshops for mentally ******ed adults), and I can't imagine many of them accepting the situation your boyfriend has. He may have more problems than just a mild learning disability, which is why I really urge you to get community mental health services involved. They can help him get the training he needs to become independent, if that's possible, and sort through which services he is eligible for, and help him find a legal advocate to look out for his interests. They can also help prepare you for the challenges you are likely to face trying to make a life with this man.

07-04-2007, 08:49 AM
I appreciate the advice.

My brother is talking to him today...having a one on one so Doug doesn't have to feel defensive. I know it sounds strange....26 and still with his dad who takes advantage of him. But at the same time I understand this....he has no family except for his dad and his dad's family. It's not his real family but it's what has been stable to him for years and to risk throwing that away by facing his father is tough. That's what he is going through right now is that marrying me will most likely drive his "father" away and then he will have no family. How would that make anyone feel? I'm 22....and I'm not so independant either, of coruse my dad wanted me to live at home till I was 35...and those were his words. :dizzy:

Supposedly Doug is bipolar...but this..again..was coming from his dad. I've spent days with him and never saw him take a pill. The only temper he's ever gotten is if he gets upset...he takes a walk, comes back and talks through it. Like I said before, he's not stupid.

I aggree that he needs to get out of there and finding assistance is the first step. Actually, the next step is to find out what all his dad is actually lying to him about...and then going for assistance.

My mom is on my side actually....she loves Doug. Doug has been like the son she always wanted. ;) lol If mom needs help he's over here right away to help her no matter what. He's never expected pay which is more than I can say for my own brother. Of course we do pay him though, because he needs the little extra cash once in a while. He has called my mom and dad "mom and dad" for quite a while now...he really looks up to my parents. That's why I'm so scared about Doug talking to my dad and getting hurt. Doug is very sensitive and I don't want him to hate my dad. Yes, there are things Doug needs to work on....heck, there are things I need to work on too...SERIOUS things.

I'll let you guys know how things go later. I'm supposed to spend the whole day with him *crosses fingers*...I hope the talk with my brother does him some good.